Podcast Summary: ABA Inside Track – Bonus Episode 38: The Year in ABA (2025)

Release Date: December 31, 2025
Hosts:

• Robert (Rob) Perry Cruz
• Diana Perry Cruz
• Jackie McDonald
• Matt (Behavioral Observations Podcast)

Episode Overview

This special end-of-year episode features the hosts of both ABA Inside Track and Behavioral Observations, coming together to reflect on the landscape of Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) in 2025. They discuss key trends, memorable moments, thought-provoking debates, and their most popular episodes, aiming to both celebrate the field’s progress and look ahead to future directions and shared anniversaries. The conversation is lively, humorous, and candid, providing both depth and levity as they “look back on the year that was 2025 in ABA.”

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Major Trends in ABA for 2025

Artificial Intelligence (AI) in ABA Practice

• AI’s Ubiquity and Controversy
  (02:31) Matt introduces the “elephant in the room”: the rapid spread of AI across ABA. While tools and platforms have proliferated (e.g., for translation or insurance authorization), there’s skepticism and concern about retaining the human, clinical element.

  • “Everything is AI this and AI that…how much do we offload our work onto these systems? Does that take away the personal touch?” (Matt, 03:04)

• AI’s Enhancing Communication and Efficiency
  Rob and Diana discuss AI-facilitated translations, which have made district communication with diverse families seamless. Rob expresses ethical caution about AI’s deeper clinical reach.

  • “It has opened up communication…whereas before, you’d say: how are we going to talk to this family?... now everyone gets everything all the time.” (Rob, 04:49)

  Matt highlights Frontera, a company using AI to speed up insurance authorizations, freeing clinicians for more face-to-face work. He points to Substack newsletters like Francesca degli Espinoza’s “Aura Series”—a fictional exploration of what happens when ABA becomes fully AI-driven.

  • “If done the right way, in an ethically sound manner, [AI] can really help RBTs and BCBAs spend more time with clients and patients than writing reports.” (Matt, 06:16)

• AI’s Analytical Power and Cautions
  Matt recounts using AI on anonymized incident reports to “predict function,” and found surprising accuracy—though he warns students to learn processes before relying on such tools.

  • “It did a fairly competent job… It was pretty impressive.” (Matt, 11:55)
  • “AI feels like it’s at that weird point… you have to learn how to do the work first.” (Rob, 12:06)

• AI Thought Leaders
  Both Francesca degli Espinoza and Alan Carina at Regis are mentioned as trusted voices on AI integration.

  • “If Alan likes it, I know there’s something there.” (Rob, 12:36)

Other Noteworthy Trends

• Return of Student Enthusiasm Post-COVID Jackie spotlights a resurgence in student energy and engagement post-pandemic, with new cohorts embracing neurodiversity and change:

  • “People are finally moving out of COVID fatigue… students have been really driven, excited, ready to embrace change and the neurodivergent perspective.” (Jackie, 13:07)

• Growing Confidence in Compassionate, Culturally Responsive ABA
  Diana observes that the field is “more confident” at blending compassionate, neurodiversity-affirming, and science-based approaches:

  • “We can be proud of both of these components… keeping both fully present in the work we do. To me, that is exciting.” (Diana, 14:13)

• Collaboration Over Expertise
  Rob notes a shift towards humility and teamwork, with BCBAs joining interdisciplinary teams as equals:

  • “We are just a member of the team, not the smartest member telling everyone what to do.” (Rob, 15:26)
  • Matt describes a talk with Dr. Cara Regan based on “Clinical Interviewing” by social work professors, demonstrating how ABA can benefit from outside fields for skills like rapport and motivation.
    • “We need more of that—draw from a different field, shoot it through a behavioral lens, and understand the principles that underpin it.” (Matt, 17:06)

• Healthy Humility and Open-Mindedness

  • “We are more confident in our humility.” (Diana, 18:47)
  • “Keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out.” (Matt, 18:36)

2. 2025's Most Popular Episodes (Top 8)

ABA Inside Track’s Top Episodes

| Rank | Title / Topic | Episode | Timestamp | |------|-----------------------------------------------------------|---------|-------------| | #8 | Why Jackie Hates DRO | 320 | 19:42–22:36 | | #7 | Water Safety Skills | 328 | 26:16–27:15 | | #6 | Family Supports and Contextual Treatment Planning | 309 | 28:31–29:47 | | #5 | Predicting and Preventing Mass Shootings | 318 | 33:09–34:06 | | #4 | Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism (Live at Regis, #300) | 300 | 35:35–36:59 | | #3 | Behavioral Artistry Revisited (with Amy Booksman) | 324 | 39:03–41:06 | | #2 | Disability Affirming Supervision (with Grace Echo JoJo) | 321 | 43:30–44:48 | | #1 | Ableism & the Medical Model of Disability | 305 | 47:57–48:35 |

Selected Notable Moments & Quotes:

• On “Why Jackie Hates DRO”:
  “I can say it was hilarious… people wanted to defend their use of DRO all the time.” (Jackie, 20:08)
  “Challenged people's thoughts on what they are currently doing and they are not happy about it.” (Jackie, 22:31)

• On “Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism”:
  “We review all of the existing, comprehensive, large-study, longitudinal research… vaccines do not cause autism, and you can check it out.” (Diana, 36:01)

• On “Disability Affirming Supervision”:
  “How you supervise supervisees that may or may not have a disability—specifically disability. This was new in the research this year, and so it was exciting.” (Jackie, 44:03)

Behavioral Observations’ Top Episodes

| Rank | Title / Topic | Episode | Timestamp | |------|------------------------------------------------|---------|-------------| | #8 | Ascent with Cody Morris | 313 | 23:53–25:36 | | #7 | Trauma Informed Behavior Analysis (Morgan/Adams)| — | 27:20–28:31 | | #6 | Chronic Absenteeism & School Refusal (McNeely) | 300 | 29:50–32:59 | | #5 | Understanding Repetitive Behavior (Bill Hurd) | 299 | 34:06–35:31 | | #4 | Bi-Directional Naming (Kyle Miguel) | — | 37:04–38:27 | | #3 | Self and Match / Self Management (Salter/Koek) | — | 41:34–43:24 | | #2 | Motivational Interviewing (Anika Costa, Polly)| 286 | 44:57–47:18 | | #1 * | Social Validity & Compassionate ABA (Greg Hanley)| 283 * | 48:44–51:36 |

*Note: Hanley episode released December 2024, included by special permission (48:44–51:36)

Selected Notable Moments & Quotes:

• On Ascent (Cody Morris):
  “It’s so easy… it’s like cheating… Cody is so good at explaining things, acting almost like a journalist, being impartial, but asking follow up questions with his own experience.” (Matt, 24:29)

• On Chronic Absenteeism:
  “A novel application of behavior analytic principles to solve a hugely socially significant problem.” (Matt, 31:44)

• On Bi-Directional Naming (Kyle Miguel):
  “Every time I read his stuff, I’m reading it in his voice. It’s uncanny… Makes this stuff approachable.” (Matt, 38:17)

• On Motivational Interviewing (Costa, Polly):
  “People that go out and work in school districts at scale… they’ve hooked me in to do some of the stuff with Behavioral Toolbox.” (Matt, 45:12)

• On Greg Hanley’s Episode:
  “He says what he wants… there was a lot of hot takes, a lot of people chopping it up… he could read the yellow pages and it would be a hit.” (Matt, 50:01)

3. Reflections on Podcast Influence and Longevity

• Both ABA Inside Track and Behavioral Observations are approaching their 10-year anniversaries in 2026, making them some of the longest-running podcasts in the field.

  • “We are the Yinglings of ABA podcasts!” (Matt, 54:45)

• The early days required explaining to guests what a podcast even was; now it’s mainstream.

  • “I would have to go through this with many, many guests at the beginning because podcast was not a household term.” (Matt, 55:14)

• Advice for new podcasters: The field is now crowded, and success requires consistent work, passion, and commitment.

  • “The dirty little secret is, it’s a lot of work. …The four of us are committed and we have been for over a decade.” (Matt, 63:01)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI’s Potential and Pitfalls:
  “I don’t stay up at night worrying about this stuff, but it is interesting and certainly things we need to pay attention to.” (Matt, 03:11) “Everyone is more willing to be open about what is human behavior—what we can explain as behavior and therefore should be a part of.” (Rob, 15:26)

• On Collaboration and Humility:
  “We can sit, listen to an idea that we’re not comfortable with, and not be like, oh, this idea is wrong. That’s not how it works.” (Rob, 18:56) “Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.” (Matt, 18:36)

• On Podcasting:
  “We caught the wave at the right time… It really is crazy.” (Matt, 56:18) “You start a podcast, you put out 5, 10, 15, 20 episodes, and the podcasts go away… It’s a real commitment.” (Matt, 63:01)

Timestamps by Topic

• Opening, Introductions, Format: 00:00–01:45
• Major Trends (AI, Student Energy, Collaboration): 02:28–19:17
• Top Episodes Countdown with Commentary: 19:36–51:36
  • Each episode highlight includes educational context, personal anecdotes, and broader field impact.
• Podcasting Longevity & Reflections: 52:20–57:14
• Influence of Other (Non-ABA) Podcasts: 57:14–62:24
  • Influences range from “Good Job Brain” to Tim Ferriss, Retronauts, and more.
• Closing, Commitment to the Field, Humorous Banter: 62:24–End

Tone and Style

The episode is informal, witty, and conversational. The hosts tease each other, engage in self-deprecating humor, and fondly recall student and peer feedback. There’s a consistent undercurrent of camaraderie and passion for both ABA and the podcast medium.

For New Listeners

If you’re new to either podcast, this episode serves as both a primer on the year’s ABA buzz topics (especially AI and compassionate, culturally responsive practice) and a guide to must-listen episodes. The hosts’ discussion blends thought leadership, humility, and practical advice—while always keeping things fun and approachable.

Suggested action: Whether you’re looking to catch up with research, reflect on the evolution of ABA, or just enjoy some good podcast banter, start with the episodes highlighted above (and be ready for some running in-jokes about DRO and the power of supervision)!

Happy New Year from ABA Inside Track and Behavioral Observations!