Episode 321 - Disability Affirming Supervision

Summary

ABA Inside Track: Episode 321 - Disability Affirming Supervision

Date: September 10, 2025
Hosts: Robert Perry Crews, Diana Perry Cruz, Jackie E.

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Overview

This episode of ABA Inside Track focuses on "disability affirming supervision" within the field of Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA). The hosts explore what it means to supervise trainees with disabilities, emphasizing cultural humility, accommodations, and the often-overlooked concept of disability as a culture. Three key articles are discussed, offering practical guidance for supervisors to create inclusive, supportive environments for both trainees and colleagues with visible and invisible disabilities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Importance of Disability Affirming Supervision

• Theme: While ABA regularly addresses cultural responsiveness for clients, disability within the supervisee population is often ignored.
• Jackie E. notes, “Many of the students that come through our program have disabilities... they experience a lot of hardships when they go out into their job and not having the same sort of accommodations or supports that they have at the university setting.” (05:00)
• The discussion expands on the need to consider all aspects of diversity—including disability—among staff, not just clients.

2. Disability as Culture

• The hosts outline the shift from viewing disability as a purely medical issue to understanding it as a cultural identity with shared values, language, and experiences of pride and community.
• “Disability is everywhere. And those disabilities can be visible or invisible and affect people in a whole variety of ways.” (05:30 – Diana Perry Cruz)
• Recognizing the diversity and journey within the disability experience is stressed, including the need for cultural humility even among those who share similar disabilities.

3. Article Summaries & Insights

A. Providing Culturally Competent Supervision to Trainees with Disabilities (Andrews et al., 2013) [08:00]

• Jackie E highlights that two authors have lived experience with disability in rehabilitation settings.
• The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) mostly covers academic settings; challenges arise once trainees enter the workplace, where support may be lacking.
• The article provides a vignette about a wheelchair user facing well-intentioned but biased behavior, illustrating common microaggressions and systemic challenges.
• Legal and Ethical Obligations: Supervisors are responsible for accommodations, regardless of disability visibility.
• Practical Takeaways: Two important tables in the article outline core values of disability culture (e.g., humor, acceptance of vulnerability, interdependence) and supervisory recommendations.
  • “If you want to say these things... replace another diversity variable and see if it sounds good. Like, ‘You do such a great job that I almost forgot you’re a woman.’ That doesn’t seem so flattering.” (26:09 – Jackie E.)
• Notable Quote: “It's impossible to know if one is really doing a good job or if one is simply being told this because of the presence of a disability and the resulting low expectation.” (25:13 – direct article quote cited by Jackie E.)

B. Disability Affirming Supervision: Future Directions in Applied Behavior Analytic Supervision (Echo JoJo, 2024) [34:38]

• Diana Perry Cruz discusses the article's contemporary, ABA-focused take.
• Defining Disability: Discusses visible/invisible disabilities, chronic conditions, and the “spoon theory” (energy budgeting for daily activities).
• Legal/Ethics Connection: Supervision must comply with ADA and BACB Professional and Ethical Compliance Code, specifically around individualized, evidence-based practices.
• Culture & Language: Debate over person-first vs. identity-first language; supervisors should ask what terms trainees prefer.
• Supervisor’s Role: List of six practical steps sourced from Lund et al. (2020), e.g., acquiring competence, reviewing resources, following up on accommodation requests, advocating within organizations, speaking out on bias, and creating disability-affirming environments.
• On Accommodations: “The purpose of the accommodation is to create an opportunity for the trainee to demonstrate their ability to learn... Accommodations need only alter the means of completing a task, not the task itself.” (Diana Perry Cruz, quoting JoJo article at 51:16)

C. Cultural Responsiveness Framework in BCBA Supervision (Gadzunis et al., 2022) [53:26]

• Rob summarizes this article’s practical self-assessment tool for supervisors.
• Framework addresses ethical codes on competence (BACB 1.05 - 1.07, 4.02, 4.07).
• Emphasizes ongoing self-reflection (scoring practices from 0–4), providing examples and non-examples.
• “Are you valuing other perspectives? Are you talking about the norms of dominant culture and when that is a problem and what to do in those cases? Which again, is going to be very important for talking about disability.” (62:11 – Robert Perry Crews)
• Generalization: Though disability isn’t always explicitly discussed in the examples, the framework applies and supervisors should intentionally “run through the tool” using the disability lens.

4. Lived Experiences, Mentorship, and Bias

• The hosts share personal anecdotes (e.g., Jackie’s experience with unilateral deafness) illustrating both visible and subtle challenges in daily and professional life, the spectrum of disclosure, and the importance of mentorship and peer groups.
• Attitudinal Biases: Supervisors unintentionally "infantilize" or, conversely, put supervisees on a "pedestal," both problematic.
• Mentorship: The importance of matching supervisees with mentors or groups who share or understand their challenges is highlighted.

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Memorable Quotes and Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Just because you can write a book about disability treatments doesn’t mean you actually can work with everyone with a disability effectively.” (12:43 – Robert Perry Crews)
• “Maybe you should extend the same branch [of cultural responsiveness] to the people working with your clients.” (04:45 – Jackie E.)
• “It's the only minority group that most people will end up being a member of.” (46:37 – Diana Perry Cruz)
• “If you want to say these things...replace another diversity variable and see if it sounds good...‘I almost forgot you’re a woman.’ That doesn’t seem so flattering.” (26:09 – Jackie E.)
• “The more you can come into this having that background, fantastic.” (43:35 – Diana Perry Cruz)
• “I think just being aware is the first step. So you’re not being that like, ‘Oh, you’re such an inspiration for being here. I’m so proud of you…’” (69:20 – Jackie E.)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction of Theme and Articles – 01:10–03:58
• Why Disability Supervision is Overlooked – 04:11–07:34
• Personal Stories and Lived Experience – 06:16–07:34
• Andrews et al. Article Discussion – 08:12–30:11
• On the ‘Inspiration’ Microaggression – 16:24
• Tables of Disability Culture/Recommendations – 27:47–29:50
• Echo JoJo (2024) Article Discussion – 34:38–53:26
• Person-first vs. Identity-first Language – 44:31–45:48
• Six Steps for Supervisor Advocates – 46:46–51:16
• ‘Function of the Task’ Quote – 51:16
• Gadzunis et al. (2022) Article & Self-Assessment Tool – 53:26–62:45
• Discussion on Generalization to Disability Culture – 62:11–62:45
• Final Takeaways and “Dissemination Station” – 64:17–69:47
• Closing/Tips for Inclusive Supervision Practices – 69:20–69:47

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Key Takeaways and Practical Tips

• Recognize Disability as a Cultural Identity: Understand and teach that disability is a form of diversity just as much as race, age, or religion.
• Accommodate Proactively and Universally: Ask all trainees what they need for success; don’t wait for disclosure.
• Mentorship Matters: Connect trainees with disabilities to mentors and groups with shared experience whenever possible.
• Avoid Stereotypes: Don’t treat disabled trainees as “inspirational” or hold them to different standards—good or bad.
• Self-Reflect and Use Tools: Routinely assess your own supervision practices using frameworks like the Gadzunis article’s self-assessment tool, applying it specifically through a disability lens.
• Adopt Universal Design Principles: Provide multiple ways for trainees to access training materials and demonstrate skills—benefits everyone, not just those with disclosed disabilities.
• Stay Educated: Supervisors should independently seek knowledge about disability culture, etiquette, and law—instead of relying on trainees to educate them.

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Relevant Previous Episodes & Further Resources

• Episodes for Further Listening:

  • #71: Cultural Competence with Dr. Solandi Forte
  • #246: Trans Affirming Care with Warner Leland
  • #287: Compassionate Care Training for Supervisees
  • #152: Ethics of Teaching Cultural Responsiveness
  • #297: Ableism in Schools
  • #305: Ableism in the Medical Model of Disability

• Recommended Reading:
  Check out articles cited in this episode—especially the Andrews et al. (2013) and Echo JoJo (2024) pieces for practical tables and toolkits.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode is an invitation to all ABA supervisors to elevate their practice by making disability affirming actions a standard part of their supervision—not an afterthought. Building systems that are inherently accessible, inclusive, and supportive isn’t only ethical and legal—it’s the foundation for excellence in both supervision and service delivery.

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[Explicit ads, sponsor messages, and non-content banter have been skipped in this summary.]

Transcript

[Jackie E]

Foreign.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to ABA Inside Track, the podcast that's like reading in your car but safer. I'm your host, Robert Perry Crews. With me, as always, are my fabulous co hosts.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Hello, Rob. It's me, Diana Perry Cruz.

[Jackie E]

And it's me, me, me, Jackie E.

[Robert Perry Crews]

E, E. It's getting longer every time.

[Jackie E]

It's going to be so long, it's going to go into like 30 minutes. And I'm like, you're gonna sing this.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Star Spangled Band in the middle of your name. Oh, that's awesome.

[Jackie E]

I'm gonna make my own theme song. So every time it's my name. And then in 20 years when people are, like, getting out of the shower, they'll be humming my theme song. Just like a Kit Kat theme song. Like, give me a break. Give me a break. Break me up a piece of that Jackie Barr. That's creepy. But no, I mean, like, you knew that and.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Oh, yeah, sorry, I thought we were making a new one.

[Jackie E]

No, no, I'm gonna make myself one.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Okay.

[Robert Perry Crews]

This isn't a podcast about where we put the Star Spangled banner in our names. This is a podcast about behavior analysis and behavior analytic research where every week we pick a topic and discuss relevant research articles.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

And.

[Robert Perry Crews]

And this week, nay, this month, the topics are all around a theme. And that theme is Super Vision. Because it's Supervision September. We've got a supervision episode, we've got a supervision guest episode, and we've got a supervision book club all this month. And that's a supervision, and that's a supervision September. So in today's episode, we're going to be talking about disability affirming supervision. Now, we certainly talked about super supervision of a variety of supervisees trainees. We've talked about supervising individuals from various cultural backgrounds, but we've never focused on culture of disability and everything that goes along with disability affirming actions that one can take as a supervisor. So this is going to be a lot of not exactly new information, but I think it is going to be a really great way to look at, I would say, a less focused on area of cultural humility in terms of disability affirming culture or disability culture versus some of our other episodes where we have talked a lot about cultural humility. And while many of the themes and many of the practices are going to be similar, we've never had a chance to sort of talk about what does it mean to. To have a disability? What does it mean to support someone with a disability? What does it mean to advocate or listen to someone or assist an individual with their advocating efforts with a disability. So I'm very excited. I know we're all very excited to discuss this topic at length. And we have three articles that we will be reviewing today. Diana, what articles are they?

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Oh, sure. Let me tell you what those articles are. They include, in no particular order, Providing Culturally Competent Supervision to Trainees with Disabilities in Rehabilitation Settings by Andrews, Kummel, Williams, Polarski, Dunn, and Lund that was published in Rehabilitation Psychology 2013. Also, cultural responsiveness framework in BCBA supervision by by Gadzunis, Edwards, Rodriguez, Diaz, Connors, and Weiss. And that was published in Behavior analysis and practice, 2022. And finally, disability Affirming Supervision, Future Directions and Applied Behavior Analytic Supervision by Echo Jojo, published in Behavior analysis and practice, 2024.

[Robert Perry Crews]

All right, now, does anyone have any sort of, you know, comments as they were either preparing for the episode or as we were discussing this as a topic that we could put on the supervision list?

[Jackie E]

I think this. I found these articles and it was. I was looking.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Oh, I was like, how did you find them? You mean you discovered them?

[Jackie E]

Yes.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Not you found them good or I found them great. Yes, exactly. Okay.

[Jackie E]

I love them all. But I was looking to increase the diversity of the articles that we were including in our ABA Training and Supervision class at Regis College, where I work. And I found one article. I found the one that Diane is going to review, the Echo JoJo, which is number one, the best name ever.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Great. I thought you were going to say best article. Best article ever.

[Jackie E]

And great name.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jackie E]

And I found that article and I was like, huh? I think that's something we really should talk about with supervision, because I know that many of the students that come through our program have disabilities. They have accommodations through the university, and I know that they experience a lot of hardships when they go out into their job and not having the same sort of accommodations or supports that they have at the university setting. And so I think this is a particularly important episode for supervisors to listen to, to try to be accommodating to everyone. Right. And not just be like, oh, look, I'm so culturally responsive to the clients that I serve. Yeah, but what about the people that are working with your clients? Maybe you should extend the same branch to them.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah. And it's people might not. Might not always think about it in that sense. Like, we work with people with disabilities, but disability is not siloed to one area of the social landscape. Right. Disability is everywhere. And so we might be putting blinders on if we're only thinking like, well, only my clients are. Have disabilities. Lots of people have disabilities. And those disabilities can be visible or invisible and affect people in a whole variety of ways. So kind of opening that up and maybe realizing, like, oh, I probably have trainees with disabilities as well.

[Jackie E]

You do have TVs with this.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Exactly. Can just help you, you know, more holistically approach how you're gonna interact with everyone in the environment.

[Jackie E]

Yeah. So I thought this was very relevant. I also, full disclosure, have my own disability. I have completely gone deaf in one ear. So when someone's talking to me, please talk into my. My left ear, because my right ear is gone. And now that this is.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Unless we're recording together, in which case you want me to be sitting on.

[Jackie E]

The side of my good ear, otherwise it's too loud. Because I can hear some things. Right. But you can't. I can't hear, like, any. Any words from. From that ear. And just going through that experience and. And then having to explain to people that I work with and that I'm, you know, living with in my general. My general group has been. It's been positive, but also kind of challenging in some situations. Right. Where people are really frustrated that I'm like, I don't hear them or that I've not done something because they talked on the wrong side or I wasn't, like, attending. Right. Because I have to be looking at someone if they're, like, talking from far away. And so that led me to be like, oh, I'm not the only person in the world that has this problem.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Right.

[Jackie E]

And so. But I'm pretty sure that a supervisor would see me be like, oh, she's fine. There's.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jackie E]

Like. And then move along. Right. But not take into account some of the accommodations that I would now need.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jackie E]

So that's where this one came from.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

I think you heard me when I honked the horn at you on the side of the road this morning. I did.

[Jackie E]

It was loud.

[Robert Perry Crews]

But you know what?

[Jackie E]

My kid was like, oh, hi, Diana.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

You were just walking along the street.

[Jackie E]

Just picking up a child to go to camp. I'm a school bus in the morning now.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Well, let's start out, Jackie. Why don't we start out with the Andrews et al. Article, which I know you're going to be leading that discussion, because I think more than the other two articles, this has a very lived in. It was. It was very interesting. Read it. A very lived in, lived experience.

[Jackie E]

It was.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Of the authors, at least two. I believe two of two of the authors were. Were Working in a residential psychological setting. Rehabilitation, sorry, rehabilitation setting, and had disabilities. So a lot of it, I think was coming from their own practice, from various experiences. So, so while I think there are components of it that, that are anecdotal, given that we don't have as much of that firsthand experience of what it's like to be in this, you know, psychology field, certainly the BCVA field with disability, in terms of this like, broad scope discussion, I think this one really captures a lot of sort of the key areas that we're going to want to be very mindful of as we add them into favorite analyst supervis supervisory practices in which there's, you know, the one article we'll be discussing and that's.

[Jackie E]

And, and to be fair, I found this article from the Echo JoJo article. It was in the references because I was like, huh, I wonder what they read.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jackie E]

And then I was like, oh, this one is so interesting. And this is the oldest article too. So it's from 2013, so that old.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

I know, but, but like in some of these other topics, right. It's like we, we as a field have sort of come to discover that maybe this is a subject we should be discussing. And then we go and look and usually psychology.

[Jackie E]

He has already done it.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Has already done it or started the conversation.

[Jackie E]

Right. So here, you know, as I was reading this article, I was linking about our field and how, how, how quickly we've come to publish articles on cultural responsiveness and looking at that with our clients and cultural responses related to supervision of our clients. And so I was like, oh, this is really interesting because I don't know, another article beside the, the one that we're going to talk later if you. About supervising your supervisees or trainees that might have a disability. Right. And the authors posit that it's actually the worst occurrence if your supervisor's not taking into a type, into account any type of the disability that a supervisee has and doesn't even provide any openness to talk about that. Right. Because then the supervisee or trainee, let's say the call them trainees, may feel alone, right? They might not. They might feel alienated. And so then they will end up leaving. Right? And so not only is that important to do, but it's also legally. We are also legally and ethically bound to accommodate for disabilities, whether they're visible disabilities in the form of a hearing aid or a wheelchair or an invisible disability. Right. Something that we can't necessarily see and we should. Learning disability, like learning disability, right. Adhd, we can't see that. Sometimes we can, but. But. And we have to making. We should be accounting as supervisors for the legal and ethical standards to not only make the environment accessible, like physically accessible, but also make it accessible due to the attitudes around, with the people around us. Right. And the authors posit that historically disability has been neglected as part of the human diversity experience. Right. We'll talk about age, we'll talk about religion, we'll talk about, you know, where we came from. But disability only now has started coming up within the addressing framework. But it's not one of the common, like variables that we focus on.

[Robert Perry Crews]

There's something about disability, I feel like it's in this weird paradoxical state in which especially for the rehabilitation psychology where you have individuals trained to work with individuals to come up with sort of solutions for, you know, challenges that they face based on some sort of physical disability. And we, you know, many of us work with individuals with disabilities. So there's almost this weird catch 22 of, well, I'm always in the world of disabilities. It's almost like, like we're virtue signaling in a way of, like, I know all about disability.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Exactly.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Therefore I shouldn't have to think about it in contexts that aren't directly related to working with clients. Not that anyone's actively trying to avoid it, but it almost feels like bias. I'm fluent at this there for I'll always know when.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Of course I'm compassionate, of course I'm caring. It's my job. Yeah, right.

[Jackie E]

But what the author suggests is research shows that even though people work with people with disabilities, they don't act in that same way to other people. Right. They're not acting in the same way they would to their clients with their supervisees. So just because you're. You feel compassionate towards your clients doesn't mean. Or towards your clients doesn't mean you're going to be the same way.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Just because you can, you could write, you know, a book about, you know, disability treatments doesn't mean you actually can work with everyone with a disability effectively. Even, especially in a context that's very different, you know, supervision than, say, rehabilitation or skill acquisition in academics, let's say.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah, and we've talked about this in our ableism episodes as well, is that there can be a lot of unconscious bias toward individuals who have a disability or are different in some, in some way. So it's not like, oh, I'm intentionally trying to, like, make something harder for my trainee. It could potentially be something that's unconscious that's occurring. So part of this whole process is just as though, just like when we talk about cultural responsiveness, talking about awareness of self, it's the same exact thing that should be applied here is potentially thinking about some unconscious bias that you may be harboring.

[Jackie E]

So they did a really interesting thing, I thought, in this article is they created a vignette to talk about the issues surrounding supervision and disability. And I'm not gonna read the vignette to you, but I'll give you kind of the gist is that a trainee was going to their clinical placement site, but the door. They were in a wheelchair, and the door didn't work still. And so one of the nurses came running over to open the door for them, and as soon as they came in, they said, oh, you're such an inspiration. I'm so happy that you're here. Maybe you could go talk to this other patient, because they're also in a wheelchair, and they just started to be in a wheelchair, and so you probably would have more sway with them, right? And that all seems well and good, but there's so many problems in this one vignette that they talk about, which I really love. And so we'll. We'll get through all the problems at the. At the end. But they did focus, and I've seen this, is that ada, the American with Disabilities act, really only focuses on academic accommodations, right? So in the university setting, you know, you can apply for some accommodations in the classroom, right? But they don't necessarily, like, pan over into your job, right? And so that's really hard, too, because let's say you're really successful with, let's say, extra time on tasks in the university setting, and you don't want to disclose your disability at your work because you're afraid that you, you know, it might make you seem incompetent or, you know, less professional as other people. But then you start falling behind, right? Because you don't have those accommodations in place. And so that's where I think we. We hit it. And people don't have to disclose their disability, right. Unless they want or need accommodations. Sometimes it's just there, right? Like, if you're in a wheelchair, you can't really hide that. You're like, yep, here I'm in my wheelchair. You're going to help me accommodate for this. But it also then makes this complex paradigm, right? Like that same nurse, like, she had to come help her get even, get into the building, right. For the student. So that's one. And then like, oh, you're such an inspiration for being here. The nurse probably meant well, right? But that's actually an insult because it's assuming that because you're in a wheelchair you're less than everyone else. Right. And so there's that ableistic perspective coming out, even though I'm sure the nurse didn't mean it that way. So you should, in an interview in and, and when you're on the job, you should only ask disability related questions as they relate to the function of your job and you shouldn't be nosy, right. So you should keep your questions open ended. And if you ask a question you should like they said the common, the author said one of the common questions she always got was what's wrong with you? And how did this happen?

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Which seems like super rude.

[Jackie E]

But then she said in another job interview, they said, okay, here's a job function that you need to do. How would you manage this and what sort of accommodations, if any, do you think you need? So then she felt that was an open ended question that she could answer and then they could problem solve together. And it didn't feel like there was bias in that anywhere.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Right.

[Robert Perry Crews]

One piece that I know I took away from this article that I think is, I think that can make in terms of the supervision piece a little tricky is that you have, what as a practitioner should you be thinking of when it comes to cultural humility, when it comes to working with individuals with disabilities. But the other piece is the supervision task of teaching your trainee. And sometimes people aren't going to phrase it this way. So how can I help you respond in those situations? Because as much as it would, you know, you as a supervisor, you're going to be modeling as much, you know, cultural humility as you can. There is the reality of not every job is going to ask that open end question. They might start with the what's wrong with you? Do you think you could really do this job with all your disabilities? And you know, then what is your response then? So you're sort of in this, in this odd middle zone where you need to be able to talk about disability in a supportive way. You need to be able to sort of model how, you know, society is not at a place where ableism has been removed. Therefore, how do you need to respond? And really that fine line between not being a jerk and also being supportive, but sometimes being a supportive jerk in a way so that you can model some of those situations. And a lot of it's going to come back to many of the practices we Talked about in terms of a lot of listening, a lot of, you know, talking about comfort level, a lot of rapport building. Don't, you know, don't start off with the. Let's do an exercise of like the worst thing that could possibly happen in your job interview.

[Jackie E]

Yeah.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Robert Perry, supportive jerk.

[Jackie E]

Supportive jerk.

[Robert Perry Crews]

I'm going to put that on my business cards.

[Jackie E]

No, but it's true. They do say that it's really important to be a good role model to teach self advocacy, but not always do all of the things like, oh, I'm gonna take care of all of that for you because I see.

[Robert Perry Crews]

I'm gonna follow up. Yeah, yeah.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Enabling versus advocating.

[Jackie E]

Yeah, yeah. So you might have to do some. Right. But you wanna be doing it in a way that's thoughtful. And so then the article kind of shifts gears a little bit and talks about disability culture, which I think is important, where disability is viewed as a culture experiment, a cultural experience, and not as a medical one. And this has the disability community have a shared experience of pride instead of the shared experience of oppression by the normative culture. And so this, they said that it may be difficult for someone if they have a disability and they're on one of the four parts. Right. That they're recognizing their disability, that they're accepting of their disability. Right. She said the author suggests there's a journey from like, okay, you might be at like shame and embarrassment that you know are different than other people all the way to pride or some where in between. And so they, as a supervisor, it might be important to have those types of conversations in not a like leading way, like where are you on your journey? But. Right. Have those discussions and know that it may be difficult for the person with a disability, the staff member, to then work with someone else that is a different part of their journey. Right. So like if you're very prideful of your disability and maybe your client has the same disability and they're not quite proud yet. Right. That, that sometimes staff may try to force their views onto, onto the client, be like, you should be proud, like blah, blah, blah. So, right. You have to accept everyone's journey. And so that might be part of the supervision component.

[Robert Perry Crews]

And as the supervisor, you, you really are going to have to focus really hard on. I want to model your. Where you are in your acceptance of your disability, where you are in terms of disability as culture. I don't want to tell you, you can't tell everyone about where you are on your journey.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Right.

[Robert Perry Crews]

I want to tell you sometimes when you're working with a client who is not in the same place as you, you need to practice cultural humility. Even though you may be in the exact same, you might have the same cultural identity in terms of this disability and therefore how would you talk about this or how might you phrase your pride in a way that doesn't come off as dismissive of somebody's steps of a journey?

[Diana Perry Cruz]

And, and again, that's a tough position.

[Jackie E]

It's really a tough position. Right.

[Robert Perry Crews]

And certainly I think many, you know, trainees these days have probably had more conversations with other members. They've had easier time communicating with other members of disability culture. So they probably are much more fluent in being able to have these conversations than say, even in 2013. If you're, you know, 25 in 2013, you may have never heard of, you know, the culture of disability or may have been something that was like other people do that, but not me. And I've just sort of not ever talked about my disability. So I think there's probably been some growth there. But it also can't always be on our trainees to. Well, I assume you've gone through this sea change of life experience and I'm old so I'm not going to pay attention to it. I'll just assume you're good at it and move on. So it's, it's getting really going to be a lot of listening. Where are people in their journey? How is this going to impact their ability to work with. Not their ability, but how is it. Well, no, their ability in terms of just overall cultural humility? Because.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jackie E]

Then how and where are they on their journey to understand where someone else's journey is. Right. Just to be able to listen and be empathetic. So really you were gonna be asking. Right. And I love it that one author shared her experience of mobility assistance. So she was like, when I was in grad school, I didn't have mobility assistance at all. So I didn't feel like I needed it. I didn't want people to think that I was different. Right. So she was like, I could hide it, but then when I went to my internship it was much more demanding and I was scared to ask. But I found group of like minded individuals that also needed mobility assistance and worked with them and felt comfortable now. Right. Being part of this group. So then I was more confident in asking and asking for assistance at my internship. And she said that mentorship was really huge in that moment. And so if you have a supervisee that, you know, may have one part of the variable of diversity, it might be helpful to establish a mentorship groups to help to help them. Right. Discover their voice and feel more confident where they are. So then the last thing that they talk about is looking at attitudinal biases within organizations. Research supports that there's negative bias against people with disabilities, even if you work with people with disabilities. Right. There might be some sort of a savior complex. And one author in the study told the story that on her first day of internship, she was mistaken for a dazed and confused patient at the hospital. Because she went into the hospital, was a little bit late, couldn't find the room, and asked someone where the. Where the elevator for the staff was. And they reported her as a confused patient that needed to be helped by security. Right. So looking at. Can't even imagine how that was. Right.

[Robert Perry Crews]

I think that you're. The first day on your job, you're trying not to make waves. You're trying to.

[Jackie E]

And then you really did in.

[Robert Perry Crews]

And. And then you didn't. Without meaning to, now you've, quote, unquote, caused a problem, even though it was based on the attitudinal biases.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Have you ever asked someone or thought someone worked at a store and, like.

[Jackie E]

Trying to ask them for help?

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yes.

[Jackie E]

Anyone in, like, a red shirt or a blue shirt at Best Buy? Like, don't just wear blue shirts at Best Buy.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

I don't work. I kind of like that, but in reverse.

[Jackie E]

But in reverse. Yeah. One time someone thought I was homeless and tried to give me money on the street.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Oh, really?

[Jackie E]

Yeah. It's because my jacket was really dirty and I just. I didn't clean it and I loved it. Remember it was that, like, wool jacket and was long and it had green buttons?

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Oh, yes, I do remember.

[Jackie E]

Oh, of course it got real tattered at the end, But I did not want to get ribbon. So someone was like, you can find a different life. And they, like, tried to give me a 50. And I was like, what's this for? And they're like, you can go to a shelter. I was like, I have a home.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

I just.

[Jackie E]

I just like this jacket. Okay. Get out of myself.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Okay.

[Jackie E]

So, you know, there's that attitude where it's really hard to separate. Right. Like working with a client with disabilities versus working with your supervisee as disabilities. Some supervisees have. Supervisors have been reported to infantile the supervisee. Right. Because they're like, oh, you have this disability. I'm going to have a lower expectation for you. You're going to. I see you as less capable, I might try to give you help even though you haven't asked for help. Or you might see the very opposite where you're like, oh my gosh, look at you overcoming all of these obstacles. And you.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Every day is like watching an inspiring movie like I am Sam or whatever. Wow.

[Jackie E]

That sometimes you see these overly positive lights with. And they say under this conditions. This is taken directly from the article. It's impossible to know if one is really doing a good job or if one is simply being told this because of the presence of a disability and the resulting low expectation. This is reflected in language such as, despite his disability, he went to graduate school.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

That is infuriating. Right. I hate that. And those. I think I've said this on another episode too, but those stories like that, people call them inspiration porn because they make you feel good for watching them, but they don't make the person feel good for having that have been their experience. Right. It's like taking it away from them. Taking the like the pride that they could have in whatever was done is like flipped and it makes them feel bad.

[Jackie E]

So one rule of thumb that they suggest as a supervisor is if you want to say these things, I like this. Replace another disability variable and see if it sounds good. Like you do such a great job that I.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Well, not a disability.

[Jackie E]

No, it's another variable.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Another variable.

[Jackie E]

Another variable.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Oh, sorry, your story was going to go really bad.

[Jackie E]

Yeah. Another diversity variable. You do such a great job that I almost forgot that you're a woman. That doesn't seem so flattering. So like, maybe you shouldn't say that for other variables of diversity. And one thing that I think the key take home if you can't read this article. There are two tables in this article. Like, if you're like, I don't have time, but I want to know more. They have a table about the core values of disability culture and they really help. Like, this is a very short way that supervisors can look to see. So one of is like use of disability humor. The authors say that if someone has a disability, they may use that disability humor to make people feel more comfortable in the situation, but then also may use it to an extreme to hide some of the things that they need. They have an appreciation of human diversity and an acceptance of human vulnerability, interdependence as a natural part of life. They have skill in managing multiple problems, system technology and assistance. They have shared language and evolving systems and a collective social, political worldview. Right. And so that's important to know. These are the core values of disability culture. So if you can't read anything else, read table four, but then also go back to table three because they give a really nice summary of recommendations for supervisors of trainees with disabilities. It's like, so I'm gonna pull it up because when I put it in here, I made it so little and I can't read it. So I'm going to make it big. And I just want to highlight some things in it because it's, I think, one of my favorite.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

It's a great table. It's a. I got it up here right now. Do you want me to.

[Jackie E]

I got it.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Okay.

[Jackie E]

All right. So one thing is you consider the disability as an element of diversity. Right. So help trainees understand and respond to clients reactions to disability in a way that's both appropriate and comfortable. Interviews may appropriately acquire how the trainee would explain his or disability to his or her disability to a client and what accommodations the person might need and inquire about for all trainees. What accommodations may need to be added. Right. Not just the one person.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jackie E]

That has a disability. Learn about various options or types of accommodations. Like you do the work to write. Assist as an advocate for assessing and securing appropriate accommodations. And this one's not really appropriate for us. But be aware of the boundary between supervision and psychotherapy. Right. We're not going to. But make sure that we're not trying to use, you know, like treatments that we would use as our clients on our supervisees. Be like, let's do a drl and maybe you will. But like, think about how that might feel. Make supervision an opportunity. Discuss all diversity variables, not just disability. And try to resist medicalization of the trainee. Right. You don't need to ask questions that go beyond the job just because you're curious and interested. Like, don't do that. You have to have a space to process and problem solve reactions to this disability with the trainee and supervision. Facilitate opportunities for the trainees for mentorship. And they say that it's going to be really hard to find mentorship potentially with a disability or find an ally that's going to be helpful. And then assist trainees with disabilities to develop their own style of coping with systematic and attitudinal barriers that they will have. So I just love that. Like this very quick little. Here's the table. These are the things that we recommend to remember as a supervisor that is working with individuals.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

We didn't list the last point of the table, which is give people this article to read that we've Got two.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Articles that part of the steps are, hey, you should use this article as part of your supervision.

[Jackie E]

I didn't, I didn't put that in there, but they did.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

I don't know. I just like that. So like, we have summarized it for you. Have people read this? Yeah.

[Robert Perry Crews]

There you go. If you're looking for a good group article study, we have two in this episode that recommend themselves for that activity. One we've done, one will do in a little bit. All right, so now that we have, I think a really nice sort of background on the overall, you know, potential for, you know, work in, you know, supporting a trainee with a disability from at least the kind of a cycle psychology standpoint. Let's take a little break and when we come back, we're going to turn it into how we can use some of these techniques and how we can use some of these areas of discussion in work in behavior analysis with our trainees. We will be right back.

[Jackie E]

Hi. Do you want to be a bcba, also known as a board Certified Behavior Analyst?

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Sure. We all do.

[Jackie E]

Now you can come to Regis College in Weston, Massachusetts to get your graduate degree just minutes outside of Boston.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Choose from any one of these Masters.

[Jackie E]

Of Science in Applied Behavior Analysis, Master.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Of Science in Special Education, dual degree in Special Ed and aba, or be.

[Jackie E]

Eligible for your Postmaster's certificate.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

You can complete your degree and be ready to sit for the exam in two years.

[Jackie E]

And our 2022 graduates had a 92% pass rate on the BACB exam.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Come enjoy approved fieldwork placements, ethics, mini handbooks, PhD levels, professors, small class sizes, and a service trip to Iceland if interested.

[Jackie E]

And don't forget, our program is accredited by the association of Behavior Analysis International or ABAI as a Tier 1 master's degree program.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Don't delay. Supplies are limited.

[Jackie E]

Learn more at regiscollege.edu Again, that's www.regiscollege.edu.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Regiscollege.Edu One more time, www.regiscollege.edu See you there.

[Jackie E]

Bye.

[Robert Perry Crews]

And we are back talking about disability affirming supervision. But before we get started with the remainder of our article discussion, I want to remind all of our listeners that ABA insidetrack is ACE and KWABA approved. By listening to this episode, you're able to earn, of course you could earn one supervision article, but if you're saying so. Yeah. So yeah, you could. You could earn an article too, if you want. You know, if that's how you like to reward yourself for listening to our podcast, you buy yourself an article, go Print it out. But you could earn a supervision ce. However, if you're saying I don't want any supervision ces, I got enough of those. Well, guess what? This is an episode that you could also get a cultural for Quaba folks or ethics for bacb folks CE instead. You can't get them all. You can't say I want to get cultural and ethics and supervision. No, pick one. But you can get any of those. So please, you know, just you, you let us know in our in. There's a, you know, dropdown form I believe we use for those actually.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

No, that is untrue.

[Robert Perry Crews]

No, that's not. How do we do it? I forgot.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Well, I'm going to tell you. You're ce. You just order the CE and it will come to you and it will say on, on the spot where it says what type of C it is, it will say cultural slash ethics or supervision. And then it's from there it's up to you. When you upload it to whatever portal it is that you are using for your certification, you at that point in time will select what you're counting it for.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Okay, that's good. Good. It's good. Good.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Reminder, do not email me.

[Robert Perry Crews]

It's been, it's been a while since we had to talk about. All right, there we go. So. But to do that though, you have to finish listening to the episode, go to our website aba insidetrack.com or click the link in your podcast player and put in some secret code words. And the first of those is mocha. M O C H A mocha. Like the, like the coffee drink. I forget what makes it a mocha. Is it, is it a chocolate?

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yes, it's a chocolate coffee.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Chocolate coffee.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Or if you're British, you can say mocha.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Mocha. Mocha. All right, so let's continue on. We're talking about disability affirming supervision. We sort of talked about it more generally in the supervisor supervisee relationship. But let's bring it into the behavior analytic lens. Diana, you're going to lead our discussion about the Echo JoJo article.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah, so I, I got the luck of the draw here that I get to talk about this article. Jackie was jealous since it was my.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Topic, but I forgot who picked this topic. And for some reason I thought that, that Diana had chosen this article. So I put. I figured Diana and anyone could have changed it, but nobody did.

[Jackie E]

I didn't change it because I only looked this morning.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

You got their last.

[Jackie E]

I got their last. So that's fair. Sorry to do Things more in a timely manner.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Well, the Andrews article is really good, but this article is bringing it forward a decade and then also applying it directly to BACB supervisees and trainees. And it was high time that this happened. So this is just a great article and I encourage everyone to go check it out. If you are a bcba, then you can access it through the BACB portal because it is published in Behavior Analysis in Practice and it covers a lot of the same beats, I will not lie, it covers a lot of the same beats that the Andrews article does. But so if you had to pick one, just like go straight to this one and know that it is pulling back references to the Andrews one previously. So some of the, some of what's covered here is like a little bit of the same structure as the Andrews article. But our author here, she just brings it around to specifics related to the bcba. So I will tell you what it, what it entails. She does start out with talking about the definitions of disability, which we haven't necessarily covered in this level of detail that she provides to us here. So it's, it's a good place to find a definition of disability. And she talks about it being invisible or invisible disability, like we said. So it could be something that when you first see the person, you immediately know, like Jackie said, like a physical disability. Maybe they use a cane or have a hearing aid or use a wheelchair. But it could also be an invisible disability. Again, we've reviewed a couple of those. Maybe someone has dyslexia or auditory processing or ADHD or autism, etc. It could also be a chronic illness. It's not initially present, but can have sort of physically taxing toll on the person.

[Jackie E]

Got that too. Welcome everyone.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah, and then they, they talk about the three dimensions of disability. So someone could identify as disabled along any one of these and have this be kind of the area that's most impacted for them. So it could be general impairment, limitation to perform activities, or restricted participation in daily activities. Sometimes in disability culture or you know, like in social media spaces, people will talk about how many spoons they have. You guys heard the spoon theory, right?

[Jackie E]

Yeah, I use it, yeah.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah. So the idea there is that one has a certain number of spoons available to them for the day, and the spoons equate to energy that you have to devote to doing certain tasks. And once you run out of spoons, you're kind of done for the day. That's all you really had to give out. And different activities could take a different number of spoons, meaning different amount of energies needed to do those things. And that's going to vary person to person. So for some people, something that's, you know, physically taxing, like trying to navigate a space that's not made for someone who has a physical disability that could take all of your spoons for the day. And then for someone else doing a really heavily social activity where maybe they have to mask a lot, that could be an activity that takes a lot of your spoons for the day. So different people have different numbers of spoons each day to day, you might have different number of spoons, and then different activities could take a different number of spoons. So that's the spoon theory. And these different dimensions of disability I just described could kind of like, you could map the spoon theory onto that too. Right. So for someone, certain types of activities may be really challenging for them to participate in. And so those could take more of their spoons to just kind of map it on. I talk about how people with disabilities may experience bias and stigma and discrimination in the workplace. And that's why it's really important for us, if we are in the supervisory role, to recognize a. That we very much most likely do have trainees or supervisees who have a disability. We should recognize that and then also recognize that those biases don't stop at the workplace door. It's possible they may start at the workplace door. So this is definitely an area where people with disabilities may be experiencing discrimination. They may not feel like they have allies there. They may be worried or, you know, feel challenged to bring up what they need to succeed in that setting. And having a supervisor who can help provide a caring space for them and a supportive space could make an entire. The entire difference in how well they're able to operate in that space, how welcome they feel, and ultimately whether they can succeed in this field for as their career. Right. So you as a supervisor have a huge role here. Just like in the Andrew's article. They talk about the legal and ethical components of ensuring that we're accommodating and supporting our trainees with disabilities. They talk about the ADA just like before. Right. So the Americans with Disabilities act was passed in 1990. There are some areas that are could be specifically related to supervising in the types of settings that we work in. And if we're failing to really support our supervisees in this setting, then we're not creating inclusive workplaces. And that could really actually be a legal issue, in addition to us all wanting to do the right thing. Right. So they touch on title one. This could come into place if you were an employer with 15 or more employees. That's the equal opportunity employees component there. So that could fall into play here. Title two relates to the inclusion of individuals with disabilities in state and local government roles. And so that if you work in a public school supervising a public school, this could be. Fall into play. Come into play, yeah. And then finally Title 5, or Title V as I wrote it here, but I think it's Title 5. Title V prevents organizations from retaliating against individuals for asserting their rights. It also provides them with flexibility in accepting or using accommodations, and that's applicable regardless of what type of place you work.

[Robert Perry Crews]

If you want to learn more about that, you could watch the movie Title V for Vendetta.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Oh, yeah, I heard that's a good. I thought that was title five.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Title five for Vendetta.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Title five for Vendetta. Okay, well, yes, you don't want the organization to have a vendetta. Actually, it does all tie in together, come to think of it. And then they, and this is important. Ding, ding, ding, everyone. They also related to our ethics standards. So here we go. It's actually tied into the BACB's ethics standards as well. They note that Standard 1.07 relates to cultural responsiveness. And we've already established disability culture as a culture. Right. And so it's a very small leap to then say, oh, well, if that's a culture, people identify with their disability as being an important part of their identity, then that's a culture that we need to be responsive to. It's like a no brainer. Right? Like this is absolutely something that when we talk about cultural responsiveness, disability culture should be part of that conversation. So that's one of the ways that it ties into our ethics standards and then related to supervision. Specifically numbers 4.06 and 4.07, note that supervision. We must be providing supervision that's evidence based and individualized to our trainee. So in both of those cases, if we want to ensure that we are properly supporting our trainee with a disability, then we need to make accommodations for them. So this is all tied in. So now you got the, the legal, the ethic background here as well. In terms of disability culture. I got, I got the same table in my article that you did in yours, Jackie. It's so it's so useful, I think. And I didn't necessarily know about those particular core values. Although, yeah, like I, you know, I tangentially related in terms of like consuming some of this in Media spaces. So I was like, oh, I totally see it in all of those places. Right. Using humor, appreciating disability as part of human diversity, accepting interdependence as natural, developing the skill to manage various systems, technology and assistance, using a shared language, developing changing symbols and art, and developing a collective sociopolitical stance. So that's how it was listed out in mind. So those are the core components.

[Jackie E]

Exactly.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah. Right.

[Jackie E]

So they took it from my article.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah, but I mean it was cited. Yeah. So that's, that's great. And they also note here too, that the more that you as a supervisor can come into the relationship with your trainee, understanding disability culture, even if it's from an outside perspective, will benefit that relationship because you're not relying on your trainee to have to teach you. And we have also discussed this at other points in the past as well, that it should not be on the part of the person with, with a disability or who's part of an underrepresented population who has to then teach the person in the majority group what it's like to have their lived experience. That's just more labor on their part. So the more you can come into this having that background. Fantastic. My article also, and, and I don't think I wrote this down wrong, but my article said people prefer people first language. And your article was kind of like back and forth.

[Jackie E]

They said that. Which I agree, is that there is a debate.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yes.

[Jackie E]

Right. There's a debate. Recognize that there's a debate and ask.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Yes, because a lot of the people first language discussion came from the 70s and 80s in terms of trying to acknowledge that an individual is not just, well, you have a disability. Therefore that's the only thing that defines and is of value of not a value. The only thing that sort of defines what your life is going to be. So using people first, the thought was from the non disabled community. Well, this makes it clear that I think of you as a human being with many facets, one of which is a disability. However, over time that has changed because a lot of individuals, as disability culture and awareness has grown, has felt like, well, I, I, while I am a person, this is a defining factor of me and I am proud of this being a huge part of who I am and to put it after makes it less than. But not everyone's going to feel that way. So it is. Yeah, I think like you said, Jackie, acknowledge there's a debate and I guess you would just ask the person who you want me. There's, there's how we Phrase it. Now I know there's a real debate like what is that? What terminology do you prefer? I'd love to hear more about it or I'd love to hear more about your experience and sort of what language would be. Might be a good way to phrase it. Yeah, yeah, they'll do. When should I call you?

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Chances are in having that conversation, someone will say as a person with a disability or as a disabled person, and that can be your. Your clue in as well. Rob, do you know what some people in the disability community call non disabled people?

[Robert Perry Crews]

I may, but what.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

What tabs, which is stands for temporarily able bodied.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Oh yeah.

[Jackie E]

Truth. I was once there.

[Robert Perry Crews]

In terms of everyone will have a disability or at some point you also will be broken. You know, your body will.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Stop working the way and kind of break down through time. And you also will have difficulties at.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Some point in your life. You will have some type of physical. Right. Yep.

[Jackie E]

Just. Just a few short years ago I was able bodied.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jackie E]

No, seriously, now I am not.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jackie E]

In many ways.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah. It's the only minority group that most people will end up being a member of.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Oh yes, I have. I have heard that and live to some of it.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Okay. Our Echo JoJo article goes on to give us some steps if you as the supervisor would like to function as an advocate in supporting your trainee with a disability. Now, did I say. Or maybe I skipped it? I'm not sure where I meant to say this was that you also may not know if your trainee has a disability because people do not have to disclose that, as you said, Jackie, and they may not initially do so like during. I think I'm going to say this later, but anyway, during the training pro. An onboarding process. Right. You're not necessarily going to bring up a disability because it could really single you out, it could make people treat you differently, etc. So people might be more likely to say, well, let me just see what I can accomplish in this setting without additional accommodations which could end up, you know, could end up being to their detriment if they did need those accommodations. But down the road they may disclose it later. So anyway, it does not have to be disclosed. What you, as the supervisor should do is try to create an open environment such that anyone can feel supported and get their needs met whether they have told you or you have some slip of paper that says they have a disability or not. Right. So like you said, Jackie, ask everybody, what do you need in this setting in order to succeed? Are there accommodations that would be helpful for you? Just have that be a blanket part of. Of any conversation that you're having with your trainee so that you are not being like, well, this trainee has a disability and therefore I'm going to be an advocate for them. Right? Like that has that savior. What is it? I'm sorry, savior complex. Savior complex component to it there as well. So that's not what we're shooting for here. The lund et al. 2020 article is where this list came from. And I'm just going to tell you what the these steps to be a supervisor advocate are. Number one, acquiring competence in supervising trainees. This could be via formal training in disability or seeking out resources yourself. Talking about how to address stigma and being aware of your own biases as well could be part of this. Number one, first step. Number two, review important resources such as APA webinars on supervision and disability. They give us some materials to review at the end of this article in the appendices as well. Number three, follow up on requests for accommodations that were made from your supervisees. Number four, be proactive in reminding colleagues or your organization that supervisors are responsible for accommodating requests. Number five, speak out on disability bias in the workplace. And number six, create disability affirming training environment. So that might be supporting the environment that exists or actually being one of the people who's going to participate in making whatever materials are needed. Right. So creating that type of environment, advocating for hiring people with disabilities actually like participating in creation of cultural competence materials, etc as they might relate to disability. So those were from the Lund article as reported in the Echo JoJo article. But they're really good suggestions. And then they go on to talk about accommodations and what that might mean. So accommodations could be different for everyone. So we didn't get a lot of like, specifics necessarily here, which I wish we did, but that could be kind of like a future article. Right. But with respect to accommodations, they said that. Sorry, I have a quote here that I was going to read to us. So here's, here's my quote. Such biases show a lack of understanding of the purpose of the accommodations. Oh, sorry, biases about disability in the workplace. The purpose of the accommodation is to create an opportunity for the trainee to demonstrate their ability to learn, perform a skill and develop within their role. Indeed, accommodations need only alter the means of completing a task, not the task itself. So sometimes I think this can get like a little complicated and people's understanding of what do accommodations mean. Right. And so our author here says the trainee really needs to be able to meet the qualifications to perform the task, but the way that they perform it or the way that they get to the end result, that could change. That's the piece that could incorporate accommodations. And so they, they say what we need to do is separate out how the task is achieved versus the essential function of the task as it relates to their job performance. So as long as they can do the task in the end, in whatever way it might take to get there, that's okay. That's the accommodation component. What we don't want to do is change what the output end result is. That piece should, should be held steady across individuals. The only caveat I would add to that is, you know, sometimes those output components could be ableist in and of themselves. So if we're asking people to do something that's, you know, not really like central to the role or is something that's like, well, that's just the way we've always done it. We've always had everyone write 20 page reports over the weekend. That's not great. Maybe you should rethink that. Right? But let's say that that work has been done and the function of the task is viewed as central to the role critical to the organization and within what the expectation should be for anyone with that role. Then if that's okay, then they're saying, well, however you get there is fine. Right? If you need accommodations to get there, that's okay. One of the examples given here was if your trainee had a, had a low vision. Right. Or vision impairment, they could still do the job. You just need to make sure that the data sheets have big print. That is an accommodation we can make.

[Jackie E]

I love large print books.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yes, you do.

[Jackie E]

Oh, so dreamy. I'm never going back. Everyone go get a large print book.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

I also love large print books. Okay. And then at the very end of this article, they just say, let's think about this from a behavior analytic perspective. They kind of bring in discussions about selection at the cultural level and how we should think about our organizations as culture and what can we do to set disability affirming goals within our organizations. They did talk about the Leland and Stockwell's transgender Non conforming self assessment tool for affirming practices, which was kind of cool. And then they had some examples of how you could do something similar with the disability affirming practices. And they included a couple examples there that people could go check out. I love this article.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Great. All right, so we're going to wrap up with sort of the take home part. So this is this is going to be the introduction of the dissemination station, though we're not going to put this article, the Gatsunis et al. Article, all in the dissemination station. So really the goal here was to take a lot of what is known about cultural responsiveness, cultural humility, and put together as much of a take home tool for supervisors, a self reflection tool for them to look at various aspects of their practice. So the the article itself goes into a lot of good detail as to how they developed this tool. Very briefly, they sort of focused on a couple areas. They sort of focused on the ethical obligation that we have according to the code. So our fourth core principle about competence in terms of how are you able to engage in these sort of cultural humility or cultural used to be cultural competence was the term and now cultural humility is more of the preferred term. But you can't really engage in these practices if you yourself don't have training in these areas. You have to be able to work with diverse clientele, whether it's in supervision or your clinical work. You need to practice within a scope of competence. 105. You need to have an awareness of cultural responsiveness and diversity and understand how culture impacts all aspects of service delivery. 107 and then again to maintain that competence. 106. And again this then relates to 402 supervisory competence and 407 incorporating and addressing diversity in training. So what is a tool you could use as a supervisor to sort of take what is known and have something that you could come back and refer to? So this tool or the tool they developed, which like most tools in supervision are not empirically validated tools, but they seem like they're on the right track. So let's all try them a little bit and then give feedback and then you know, we'll come back and look at the empirical validation piece at some point we hope. They looked at some tools from American Speech and Language and Hearing association from the national association of Social Workers. They pulled some of the supervision, monitoring and evaluation form ideas from Turner et al. In 2016, some of the LeBlanc et al. Kind of cultural responsiveness tools from a 2020 article, like assessing your own place of privilege, engaging your perspective, taking. So again, a lot of the statements around reflection or tasks around reflection as well as the previously mentioned Leland and Stockwell 2019 Self Assessment Tool for creating safe and supportive environments for transgender and gender non conforming individuals. So this isn't an amalgamation of like we took all the tools and threw them in a blender, but it's more looking at a lot of the concepts and the big ideas from all of that work and sort of putting it into some further self reflection steps. And one of the positives here is I really love the addition of a lot of examples and non examples because especially if you are new to supervision and especially if you're new to cultural humility training and getting competence in culture, your competence in your cultural humility competence, then you probably need to have a little bit more guidance because a lot of tools, we really loved talking about them, but it's something we've been doing for many years. If you're brand new to this something that sort of lays out this is what we're talking about in this self reflection piece, this is what we'd be talking about would give you a low score. I think that can be very helpful. So they put it together and developed the culturally responsive supervision self assessment tool which is to be used by supervisors to look at how well or not well you are using culturally responsive practices in supervision and activities and in the areas where you're getting a 2 or less. So you score yourself a 0 to 4 with 4 being like almost all the time or all the time and and you know, zero being like never heard of that, don't know what that is or I'm really bad at it. You sort of, you know, use that midpoint of a two of things that were scored around a two are the areas you want to be going to more trainings on. You want to be listening to more podcasts in that area, maybe from us. Let's say you want to be getting yourself a mentor in that area and they look at four subdomains and they give you examples and non examples of lots of sort of sub questions you would ask yourself in in the process. There's supervision process questions, clinical care questions. We won't focus as much on those. Behavior of the supervisor at the start of the supervision process and very important behavior of the supervisor throughout the supervision process. So each of them sort of has some various statements and then you score yourself. So let's. I'm just going to give a couple examples here. So if you're talking about say in the context of supervision, you understand how cultural backgrounds may impact and then you have a whole list of areas that can be impacted by cultural cultural backgrounds. So you know, do you know the preference for the delivery of performance feedback of your supervisee? Then you have some examples. An example like I understand the delivering and receiving feedback may look different within different communities and individuals may have different Reactions to feedback based on their own personal histories. Right. So that's what it would look like if you're scoring yourself a three or four, whereas a non example. I assume that everyone who lives within my general area has similar preferences regarding the delivery of feedback. Okay, that's probably more like a zero, a one or a two that you might be giving yourself. And so all of the areas have those kinds of example and non examples. So, you know, moving on to some of the other sections, clinical care, again, is going to have a lot of the same information about, you know, really attending to cultural backgrounds of client and how it impacts care. But we're talking supervision, so I'm going to sort of skip over that section. The areas in terms of your ongoing supervision and your initial supervision process is really focusing in a lot of the areas we've discussed, not specifically around, say, disability culture, but culture in general. So, you know, are you continuing to assess preferences for receiving and providing feedback? Are you thinking about how are you holding yourself accountable to teaching your supervisee goals around culturally responsive skills? Are you looking, doing things like putting things around your cultural responsiveness behaviors into the contract, the supervisory advisory contract that you signed? Are you looking at data and feedback from the supervisee to assess your supervision? Specifically in the area of cultural responsiveness? Are you engaging in any behavior that could be considered or is racist or discriminatory? Are you demonstrating empathy? Are you valuing other perspectives? Are you talking about the norms of dominant culture and when that is a problem and what to do in those cases? Which again, is going to be very important for talking about disability. Are you giving diverse clinical examples in your case studies and casework? Right. Are you looking at a number of topics related to cultural humility and different client types? So again, an example here would be something like, I emphasize that supervision is a reciprocal process and actively solicit feedback. Kind of going back to this feedback with an example of, at the start of supervision with a new student, I discussed the importance of having the supervisee provide feedback to the supervisor. Non example, I get defensive when my supervisee provides me with feedback on my supervision skills. That one's a little bit more straightforward as an example. And non example, another one would be like an example. I provide clinical examples using, utilizing individuals from different backgrounds rather than only from the dominant culture and, or my own culture. And I think that one's really very specific, not very specific, but really reflected in our discussion of disability culture in that we mostly give examples of individuals either who have the disability that we are sort of trained to support. So say, you know, educational disabilities of autism or ADHD or maybe physical disabilities, but maybe not. But that doesn't mean that's the only example that needs to be given. An example here would be. I use a variety of diverse hypothetical names when discussing scenarios. Assign articles describing diverse cultures. Sorry, that's. Provide clinical examples. I lost track of where I was here.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Like, like in. I didn't watch Elio, but in Elio, the little boy has a eye patch.

[Robert Perry Crews]

He got a fight. He had to put it on because he was injured. So it's a temporary disability.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Okay. But it's still. I didn't know if it was a plot point.

[Robert Perry Crews]

No, not exactly.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Okay. I. I liked it in the sense that it was a additional example of a potential physical disability that ideally wasn't like the central component of that character.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Yeah.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

So you didn't see the movies.

[Robert Perry Crews]

I wouldn't say Elio would be. You'd be higher on the score if you're like, I saw the movie Elio, and sometimes people can't see out of both eyes. Whereas if you're like Elio the movie with the kid with one eye. No thanks. That would be. You begin.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Okay. Okay.

[Robert Perry Crews]

There you go.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

I'm trying. I'm trying to relate to you. What you.

[Robert Perry Crews]

So you just use Pixar movie examples? Yeah, I mean, everybody knows. For this podcast, the only thing I talk about is Pixar movies, folks. I don't. I talk about a lot of things, so.

[Jackie E]

Also. Very true.

[Robert Perry Crews]

So again, I think this is a really nice self assessment tool. There's probably some more work in terms of building competence. So sort of like we've talked about on today's episode, to really make sure that you are not just including sort of the areas of culture that typically come to mind when we think of culture. So including disability as a culture, that might not be something that comes into play. And unfortunately, the examples and non examples in this article don't focus on any one area of culture or cultural background. So you need to bring that information to your self reflection here in that.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Way that has more potential for generalization.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Yes, there wasn't the goal. The goal was not to focus on any one area. However, you know, we're here to sort of remind you there's another area of culture you want to be thinking about. Another thing I do love about this article is the fact they give you a lot of other tools that you can add your supervisory practice. So some scenarios in which, you know, like we talked about, how would you talk to your supervisee about culture or cultural backgrounds or disability. They give you some scripts and they give you some scenarios that you can kind of talk in the mirror and do self reflection on or you can make a part of group supervision. So for example, if my supervisee were to describe a situation in which they experienced racism or prejudice due to my actions, I would comfortably know how to react in a sensitive, validating and solution oriented manner without getting defensive. And then you don't just get to score yourself, actually provide an example of a situation and how you would react. So here's a way that you can start thinking about you, how you as a supervisor would act or you could make that a part of your supervisory activity. They have some self reflective writing activities. They have some practice. They also recommend that hey, perhaps you could use this article and discussing this tool in these areas as part of a group supervision or an individual supervision discussion. So now you have 2 articles to fill some of those group supervision meetings that you could be using to talk about cultural backgrounds in practice. Again, not empirically validated though. They did double surveys, one of their first edition, one of their second edition and they were able to get a number of. They weren't, weren't able, sorry, that makes it sound like it pressured them.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Try again.

[Robert Perry Crews]

They got good feedback from 16 different people of the different editions that were administered the the tool and said that they would use it or they're somewhat, are very likely to use this tool in supervision. So you know, face validity, you've got a lot of, a lot of that here. So what I like to do is we move into dissemination station is put it all together. So we sort of talked about the overall experience, we talked about some steps to take and now we have sort of a tool about cultural responsiveness. Whether it's using this tool specifically or using other tools that we've discussed in the past or in terms of, you know, extending on some of these activities. What would be some take home areas that we could add. We can put all of the discussion together, you know, but focusing on the area of disability affirming supervision, you know, I mean for me I'll take the easy one because I started the question which would be I think when you're looking through a tool like this cultural responsiveness self reflection questionnaire, I would just go through it a few times and make sure at least one of those times when you're, when you're going through it, you think about it in the lens of, you know, maybe ethnic background, then maybe go through it and think about it from A lens of maybe an age background, and then make sure, you know, as you're going through the different lenses, also the lens of disability affirming care, not so much, because you always need to do that. But I think if it's something that is not a fluent skill, and for many of us, especially if we're from a dominant culture, it is not a fluent skill. It does allow you to sort of think about many of the individual nuances of culture. None of this is going to be foolproof, but it will allow you to sort of think about where are the areas where there is the most need for growth. Therefore, you can help develop your own action plan of I definitely have very little information about these. These cultures or these backgrounds. So I'm going to make sure to make that a part of my professional development over the next six to 12 months and then I'll do another self assessment after that. So I think that would be a way to do it. If again, you're very new to this process, you know, thinking about different lenses of cultural background rather than just trying to think about everything at once. Because my guess is you'll probably focus on the areas you have the most comfort with and you may leave out ones that you don't think about as often. And then you're still going to be in the same boat that you would have been if you never thought about this. For when you're working with the supervisee of oh, I never thought about that one. Whoopsies. So take the time before you're in that situation where you're going to potentially break the rapport that you need to have to effectively supervise and model these behaviors. So that would be my thought, but Jackie, Diana, what do you think?

[Diana Perry Cruz]

I think just as we've had these discussions in other places about cultural responsiveness, it's kind of a breakdown between, in that case, cultural awareness of self and then how you can then apply cultural responsiveness towards others. It's the same process here. So if you haven't ever thought about disability and how it might, you know, if you have potential unconscious bias toward disability, you kind of have to like, start there before you're then going to be able to properly train and supervise your. Your supervisee with a disability. So it's like a lot to kind of cram into one episode. I also think that the varying types of accommodations for someone with a visible or physical or invisible or, you know, like, maybe neurodiverse disability are like, really different. And so it's hard to like, blanketly state what one should do as the supervisee. So it's going to be an individualized approach how you should most properly accommodate that individual person. However, I think as the approach, as the supervisor and thinking about everyone has a different. Different strengths, different weaknesses, potentially different learning approaches that most benefit them. And trying to diversify the way in which you train, teach and have expectations for output for your trainees will greatly benefit all of them, whether they have a disability or not. And so that ties into the idea of your universal design for learning or udl. And you can look that up too. So giving people options. And do you want to watch this training as a video? Would you rather read the transcript? What if we acted it out together? What if I gave you some materials to take home? Interview. Right. Any of those is a perfectly acceptable means to an end, which is this trainee now learns how to do this skill. And for someone having access to varying approaches or multiple approaches can function as an accommodation in and of itself. And they don't even have to disclose to you that this is an area. Right. If they choose not to. So that is just one small piece of the takeaway. But this is such a big and important topic, it's kind of hard to summarize.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Yeah. It's again, more towards like what are the general things that we have that you can now add these other layers if you haven't been doing that already. Jackie, anything else in particular you want to make sure we add in knowing that we didn't cover it all.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jackie E]

Familiar stuff with disability culture. I think that would be a huge take home. Do do your work. Right. Learn more about that. And I think just being aware is the first step. So you're not being that like, oh, you're such an inspiration for being here. I'm so proud of you. Right. So taking that type of barrier out first and foremost would be really helpful.

[Robert Perry Crews]

All right, so we have some tools here. We have some discussion points to begin with. But like we've been talking about, there's. There's a lot more to. To cover and to learn. So hope we hope you all found this to be a good maybe, maybe not starting point, maybe starting point, a continuation point in your own self reflection on your supervisory abilities in the area of cultural awareness, especially in the area of disability awareness. Let's move on to the last section of the show. Pairings.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Time for pairings. Pairings is the part of the show where I tell you about other episodes. You might want to check out if you liked this on. We've talked about variations on this topic a few times. Here are some examples. Episode 71 cultural competence with Dr. Solandi Forte. Episode 246, trans affirming care with Warner Leland. Episode 287, compassionate care training for Supervisees with Girls Day. Jackie and Diana. Remember that day?

[Jackie E]

Girls day, yeah.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Episode 152, Ethics of Teaching Cultural Responsiveness. Episode 297, Ableism in Schools and Episode 305, Ableism in the Medical Model of Disability. Feel free to go back and check any of those out. And then I usually like to recommend a snack to go with the episode. I couldn't think of anything clever, so I just want to know what you have for breakfast.

[Jackie E]

Jackie, Today I have the same thing I have every single day.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

What was it?

[Jackie E]

It is Greek yogurt, sadly. Plain with blueberries, walnuts, a splash of honey, some kefir and a banana.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Oh, wow. So I had oats mixed with plain yogurt, almond milk, flaxseed, peanut butter.

[Jackie E]

That's what you have every day?

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Yeah. And Apple Rob didn't have breakfast. There you go.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Oh, no. I mean, I. We have a lot of bagels we're trying to use up. So I did have. I had an everything bagel.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Oh, sorry.

[Robert Perry Crews]

With some cream cheese. Yum.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Nom, nom, nom, nom.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Yeah, you're right. Typically I wouldn't have added anything, but I want to more than, more than having a set diet for anything. I like to make sure all of the food is used up up in a timely fashion.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

Okay, that's it. Thanks for listening to pairings. Please enjoy.

[Robert Perry Crews]

All right, well, thank you all so much for listening to this episode of ABA Inside Track. As we kick off Supervision September, we've got some more supervision episodes coming up, so make sure you are subscribed on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen to podcasts. You can find us online at ABA insidetrack.com where you can find links to all of these articles, which you should definitely check on because you're going to want to have access to some of this information as you're continuing your supervision journey. You can also, you know, go there to purchase CES and see all our relative, you know, related episodes. You can join us on Patreon patreon.com Aba InsideTrack to get all these episodes a week ahead of time, as well as to get discounts in the CE store. If you subscribe at the $5 and up level, you get access to our quarterly listener choice episodes with a video, the video player component, as well as a free CE and if you subscribe at the $10 and up level, you get our book clubs. We're going to have a supervision book club available to everyone. But we have three other book clubs that come out every single year. Three come out just for our patrons and then three are our previous year's episodes from from last year for everybody. But for all of them, if you are patient at the $10 and up level, you get those two CES for listening to those episodes for free. So patreon.com abainsidetrack is the place to be. I want to make sure that everyone gets our second secret code words that they can get either their supervision or cultural slash ethics CE and it is Butterscotch. B U T T E R S C O T C H It's one of those words where all three of the things in there are great. Whether it's butter or scotch or butterscotch combined, they're all a fun treat.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

What about butts?

[Robert Perry Crews]

I mean, you know what? I'm not going to tell you how to spend your Saturday nights. All of us. It's all great. It's good stuff. Butterscotch.

[Diana Perry Cruz]

You could also listen to the Divergent Mind Book Club. I forgot to throw that in.

[Robert Perry Crews]

Oh yes, or Divergent Mind Book Clubs. That'd be a good one. As we talk about Codeworth. Sorry, Some final Thanks. Thanks to Dr. Jim Carr for recording our intro and outro music, Kyle Sturry for interstitial music, and Dan T.H. abbott of the podcast Doctors for his amazing editing work. We'll be back next week with another fun filled episode, but until then, keep responding.

[Jackie E]

Bye Bye.