ABA Inside Track Episode 330:

Culturally Responsive Leadership Practices with Denisha Gingles

Release Date: December 17, 2025

Overview

This episode of ABA Inside Track centers on the vital topic of culturally responsive leadership practices in behavior analysis and related fields. The returning guest, Denisha Gingles—founder of Sankofa Behavioral Health and president of BABA (Black Association of Behavior Analysts)—delves into her personal and professional journey, the importance of liberation and anti-oppressive frameworks, and practical, actionable ways for behavior analysts to enact culturally responsive, justice-centered leadership. The conversation draws from multiple disciplines, referencing key articles from counseling, medicine, and leadership theory, with a special emphasis on the Ubuntu leadership model.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Denisha’s Journey and Roles (03:35–05:18)

• Background: Denisha is in a “season of alignment,” focusing on systems and habits that propel herself and her community toward liberation rather than mere inclusion.
• Current Roles:
  • Doctoral student, Industrial-Organizational Psychology—concentrating on social justice
  • Clinical and operational leader at Sankofa Behavioral Health in Baltimore, MD
  • President of BABA (Black Association of Behavior Analysts)
• Quote:

  "I've been really pushing myself to build systems and stack habits that protect myself, my community, Black people, Black professionals—that actually leads to liberation instead of just including us and being everywhere." (04:04, Denisha)

2. Research Base and Interdisciplinary Approach (06:23–08:43)

• Articles Referenced:
  • Anti-oppression in counselor education, cultural responsiveness in behavior analysis curriculum, mentoring for minoritized professionals in medicine, and the Ubuntu leadership model.
• Interdisciplinarity:
  The panel emphasized learning from allied fields—counseling, medicine, IO psychology—citing these disciplines’ progress on topics ABA is still struggling with.
• Quote:

  "We should be drawing from other fields... you don't always have to recreate every everything, every idea. Other folks have come before and done really good jobs of that." (08:32, Diana)

3. Guest Editorship & Social Justice in Behavior Analysis Publishing (10:04–15:43)

Denisha recounted her leadership of an emergency special issue on police brutality and systemic racism for the journal Behavior Analysis in Practice:

• Context: Prompted by the George Floyd and Breonna Taylor uprisings.
• Editorial Board: 90% Black and Brown members, all from marginalized communities.
• Intent: Avoid performativity. Make research genuinely useful to organizers and those in the movement.
• Sustainable Impact: The issue catalyzed further leadership among guest editors and authors in the field.
• Quote:

  "I was very clear... who says it and who tells the story also matters. Right. And so our editorial board was 90% Black and Brown. And every person that was on the editorial board was from at least one marginalized community." (11:22, Denisha)

4. Mentorship vs. Leadership: Definitions and Realities (16:41–21:31)

• Mentorship:
  Seen as didactic, often hierarchical, and traditionally one-directional. Denisha critiques Western models as extractive and rooted in capitalism, leading to burnout among marginalized mentors.
• Leadership:
  A social, systemic, and context-building process—about arranging contingencies so others contribute toward collective goals; relationships are central, not hierarchy.
• Critical Reflection:

  "Leadership only exists in relationship to others." (21:31, Denisha)

5. Culturally Responsive Leadership: Beyond the Checklist (22:17–28:05)

• From the Literature:
  Mather and Rodriguez (2022) offer measurable behaviors for clinicians striving for cultural responsiveness, but true leadership means moving past skills-checklists and embracing ongoing value-based reflection and systemic challenge.
• Performative vs. Substantive Action:
  Cultural competency is not a “badge” but a process demanding active confrontation of privilege and persistent systemic changes.
• Quote:

  "Cultural responsiveness definitely can't be looked at as just like a checkbox... it's actually about the behavior that's there... it's an ongoing process, and there is no destination." (26:26, Denisha)

6. Academic vs. Social Leadership (28:41–30:24)

• Academic Leadership:
  Focused on metrics, performance, and tangible outputs (publications, tenure).
• Social Learning Leadership:
  Prioritizes collective growth, genuine feeling of belonging, and reflection—not just performance.

7. Anti-Oppressive Practice & Ethics/Task List Gaps (31:54–33:14)

• Mentions:
  The Sheik Gumaluru article offers actionable anti-oppressive steps, but implementation gaps in behavior analysis ethics code and task list persist.
• Ethics as Baseline:
  Denisha urges professionals to view BACB ethics as a starting point—merely compliance-driven and not enough to promote justice.
• Quote:

  “We’ve always needed to expand our ethics code... we have way more work to do if we ever want that to be what it can do." (33:14, Denisha)

8. Realities of DEI and “One-Off” Solutions (34:54–36:29)

• Panel Discussion:
  The BACB’s rollback of cultural responsiveness is lamented as shortsighted. A single box-check or line in policy is insufficient; true cultural responsiveness must be woven into the fabric of education and policy, not tacked on.

9. Empathy & Power Redistribution: The Hardest Skills (37:24–43:38)

• Critical Leadership Skills:
  Empathy—beyond surface-level “skills”—and daily, observable redistribution of power define meaningful leadership.
• Challenges in Training:
  These are among the most challenging aspects to operationalize and teach, sometimes requiring “exhaustive lists” of examples and non-examples in policy due to widespread procedural literalism.
• Quote:

  "What does it look like to actually show empathy to our communities?... The redistribution of power is just like a really important... there needs to be ways that we teach people how to actually redistribute power and what that looks like on a day to day basis." (38:14, Denisha)

10. Ubuntu Leadership: Principles & Practice (47:17–63:12)

• Core Concept:
  Ubuntu is built on collectivism, interdependence, empathy, reciprocity, dignity, and communal power ("I am because we are").
• Application:
  Ubuntu leadership rejects the “heroic lone leader,” emphasizing shared voices and the relational fabric of teams and communities.
• Universality:
  Ubuntu principles are universal, not limited to one cultural group, and transferable across disciplines and settings, including ABA.
• Culturally Responsive Parallels:
  Ubuntu naturally embodies the very practices needed for cultural responsiveness and anti-oppression work in ABA.
• Quote:

  “No matter where you go, you're creating a new culture. What you're bringing and what they're bringing now we've created something new. That's what it looks like to also have that collective mindset versus like the hierarchical. Somebody merges to my culture. Right? Like, no, we're creating a new one together." (57:27, Denisha)

11. Barriers to Ubuntu–Style Leadership (60:26–63:12)

• Not “Easy” or Quick:
  Ubuntu requires a willingness to be uncomfortable, to slow down, and to prioritize community and accountability even in times of conflict—qualities that oppose Western industrial speed and efficiency.
• Practical Challenge:
  Many revert to transactional, punitive models under stress. Ubuntu encourages “sitting in discomfort” and creating new consensus, which can be at odds with U.S. professional culture.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “My work's just been kind of focused on sustainability and yeah, trying to thrive, not just survive, and also having a good time because I am a full human being. I'm still young, got my legs, you know, go outside, have a good time and frolic.”
  (04:50, Denisha)

• “If you just think about leadership as just like a straight line, someone sits up here and we don't remember that a person as a person is a person through other people ... things start to fall by the wayside.”
  (21:31, Denisha)

• "It actually needed to be a moment that expanded what we thought of as scholarly, that actually represented the movement... who says it and who tells the story also matters."
  (11:12, Denisha)

• "Leadership is more of a social process ... we then utilize different motivated operations to enable other people to contribute towards a collective goal or a mission."
  (19:43, Denisha)

• “Empathy is a starting point ... what does it look like to actually show empathy to our communities?... [And] redistribution of power is just like a really important [skill].”
  (37:24, Denisha)

• "Ubuntu is not an easy way of being. When we start having moments of conflict... it's very easy as human beings to want to cling to what we've always known ... it requires a deep sitting inside of these ideals and values."
  (60:26, Denisha)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------------|-------------------| | Denisha’s Updates and Life Philosophy | 03:35–05:18 | | Overview of Guest Editorship & Social Justice | 10:04–15:43 | | Definitions: Mentorship vs. Leadership | 16:41–21:31 | | Culturally Responsive Leadership Frameworks | 22:17–28:05 | | Academic vs. Social Learning Leadership | 28:41–30:24 | | Ethics Code and Anti-Oppressive Practice Gaps | 31:54–33:14 | | Empathy & Redistribution of Power | 37:24–43:38 | | Ubuntu Leadership Principles and Practice | 47:17–63:12 | | Research Priorities in Leadership | 63:45–67:31 | | Daily Practice Tips for Leaders | 67:47–69:05 |

Actionable Takeaways & Reflections

For Leaders and Practitioners:

• Move beyond compliance: Treat the BACB ethics code as a minimal standard; justice requires reflection, policy change, and personal accountability.
• Operationalize Empathy and Power Transfer: Daily, observable actions that show support and redistribute opportunities/power are essential.
• Prioritize Relationship and Community: Leadership is relational—eschew hierarchical, extractive models in favor of interdependence and mutual growth.
• Bake Inclusion In: Don’t rely on “one-off” workshops—infuse cultural responsiveness into every policy, curriculum, and practice.
• Ubuntu as a North Star: Use Ubuntu principles—empathy, collectivism, shared responsibility—as a guide for all leadership and mentoring.
• Sit with Discomfort: Genuine change means embracing slowness, multiple perspectives, and discomfort as necessary elements.

For White Leaders / Majority-Group Leaders:

• Daily Reflection on Power: Every day, consider actions—large or small—that redistribute power or amplify marginalized voices in your workplace.
• Assess Policy Impact: Be mindful about how every policy, no matter how well-intentioned, might inadvertently dehumanize or exclude.
• Model Humanity: Err on the side of humanity, not efficiency.
• Support BABA and Similar Organizations: Consider donating or otherwise supporting organizations advancing liberation and inclusion.

Resources and Further Listening

• BABA (Black Association of Behavior Analysts): babainfo.org
• More from Denisha: danishagingles.com
• Related Episodes:
  • Episode 190: Cultural Humility & Barriers to Leadership
  • Episode 135: Social Justice in ABA (with Denisha)
  • Episode 128: Diversity and Inclusion
  • Episode 180: Promoting Ethical Leadership
  • Episode 152: The Ethics of Teaching Cultural Responsiveness
  • Episode 262: Collaboration and Leadership in the School Setting

Final Memorable Metaphor

"It's the difference between having it be like the frosting layer on the cake or like the baked-in layer on the cake. So we're trying to bake it in, but we still have work to do." (36:14, Diana)

For behavior analysts and leaders everywhere, this episode is a call to slow down, reflect, “bake in” justice and inclusion, and let Ubuntu principles guide every policy, program, and conversation.

Pairs well with:
A potluck—where every contribution is well-labeled for all diets, so everyone can partake safely and joyfully, reflecting the episode’s advocacy for compassionate, inclusive practice.

End of summary