ABA Inside Track Episode 332: Motivational Interviewing w/ Dr. Monica Gilbert

Release Date: January 14, 2026
Host(s): Robert Perry Crews, Jackie McDonald, Diana Perry Cruz
Guest: Dr. Monica Gilbert

Episode Overview

In this episode, the ABA Inside Track team explores motivational interviewing (MI)—an evidence-based, client-centered communication style originating from psychology and addiction studies—now gaining attention in the field of applied behavior analysis (ABA). Guest expert Dr. Monica Gilbert (BCBA & clinical psychologist) discusses what MI is, how it can enhance therapeutic alliances and promote genuine collaboration with caregivers and teams, and the practical process of incorporating MI strategies into ABA practice. The discussion is rich with research insights, practical tools, memorable examples, and actionable advice for behavior analysts at any level.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Dr. Monica Gilbert’s Journey to MI and ABA

[03:53–06:24]

• Dr. Gilbert shares how her early BCBA experiences, including being banned from a school for coming across as unhelpful despite "doing everything right," highlighted the need for better communication and partnership.
• While studying clinical psychology and working in substance use treatment, she discovered MI through her supervisors:

  "This is the missing piece in ABA... It's just the way we communicate." – Monica Gilbert [05:03]

• Combined both worlds—ABA and MI—in her dissertation, trainings, book, and now her “MI for Change” podcast.

2. What is Motivational Interviewing?

[07:30–08:08]

• MI is “having a conversation about change” with anyone feeling ambivalent—not just parents, but staff, RBTs, or anyone.
• Ambivalence is “simultaneous wants or needs about two things at the same time.”
• MI’s dual aim: connection and direction—form a trusting relationship and guide toward behavior change:

  "If you're just connecting... you're not going anywhere." – Monica Gilbert [12:14]

3. Core MI Concepts & Theories

A. Change Models

[10:02–13:31]

• Dr. Gilbert explains the “transtheoretical model of change” (pre-contemplation, contemplation, action, etc.).
• MI focuses on increasing "change talk" (vocalizations toward positive change) and decreasing "sustain talk" (statements in favor of the status quo):

  "Studies have shown that the more people speak about change, the more likely they are to change their behavior." – Monica Gilbert [14:05]

B. Eliciting Change Talk – Live Demo

[14:23–16:42]

• Dr. Gilbert demonstrates using a simple open-ended question to help Rob vocalize reasons to stop picking at his nails, illustrating the “DARN CAT” acronym (categories of change talk):

  "A simple question was able to evoke that change talk. And that's what we want to see." – Monica Gilbert [15:46]

C. The Spirit of MI: The PACE Framework

[17:55–19:28]

• Partnership (not hierarchy), Acceptance of autonomy, Compassion, and Evocation (solutions from the client)—are central.
• Emphasizes the fundamental respect for client autonomy and collaborative solutions over simply “fixing” the problem.

4. MI Tools and Acronyms: OARS & Beyond

[21:19–22:11]

• OARS: Open-ended questions, Affirmations, Reflections, Summarizations; plus Information exchange ("OARS + I").
• These are “skills or tools,” used flexibly throughout MI’s "staircase" of processes: engaging, focusing, evoking, and planning [24:05].
• Reflections (simple and complex) are often the hardest, especially for behavior analysts without counseling backgrounds [38:27, 40:30].

5. Integrating MI & ABA

[29:19–30:38]

• MI is not an "add-on" but should be "integrated into the work that we do."
• Dr. Gilbert is contributing a section to an upcoming ABA textbook:

  "I can't wait to see it... in universities, and it's going to be out there." – Monica Gilbert [30:38]

6. MI Myths, Pitfalls, and Authentic Application

[34:30–37:31]

• MI isn’t about “tricks” for buy-in; it’s a set of skills that must be practiced authentically—not used as a script.
• Supervision and communities of practice (roleplays and feedback on skills) are essential for skill development.

"The focus shouldn't be on which technique am I going to use. The focus should be on: How am I moving them toward that change?" – Monica Gilbert [41:09]

7. Role of MI in Parent & Staff Collaboration

[43:05–48:45]

• In MI, especially when working with caregivers, the parent is the client.
• Greater collaboration leads to shared responsibility, lowers burnout, and increases the effectiveness of interventions.
• MI also empowers RBTs and staff—eliciting their perspective, solutions, and buy-in.

"This also helps us [behavior analysts] ... instead of doing all the work, we're giving them their part of the responsibility." – Monica Gilbert [45:13]

8. Behavior Analytic Account of MI

[50:02–52:24]

• MI can be viewed through verbal behavior: caregiver/client responses are shaped and differentially reinforced, with "change talk" expanded and "sustain talk" placed on extinction.
• Offers an analytic, evidence-based rationale for MI’s effectiveness.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dr. Monica Gilbert’s MI origin story:
  "I am banned from my first school. What do you mean? ... I showed them a graph, right. I took data. I just didn't get it." [04:10]
• On MI's ongoing relevance:
  "This is not like a separate thing, because we're talking, we're speaking, right? We're communicating." [29:19]
• On authenticity:
  "It is going to be a little odd. But again, I had great supervisors during that time and they helped me through it and, and it really made the difference." [37:31]
• About reflective listening and affirmation:
  "If you say it like that, yeah, it's going to be a little odd, so don't say it like that." [38:27]

Key Segment Timestamps

• Dr. Gilbert’s MI journey & background: [03:53–06:24]
• What is MI? / MI as conversation about change: [07:30–08:08]
• MI as connection AND direction; myth-busting: [12:14]
• Stages of change / Transtheoretical model: [10:48–13:31]
• Change talk vs. sustain talk (demo): [14:23–16:42]
• The “spirit” of MI (PACE): [17:55–19:28]
• OARS skills explained: [21:19–22:11]
• MI “staircase”: Engaging, focusing, evoking, planning: [24:05]
• Integration into ABA; field’s slow uptake: [29:19–30:38]
• Authentic skill and challenges in learning MI: [34:30–37:31]
• Reflection skills and why they’re tough: [40:30]
• Behavior analytic account of MI: [50:02–52:24]
• Future of MI in ABA / Research needs: [53:06–54:27]
• Dr. Gilbert’s resources and contact info: [55:57–58:06]

Where is MI Going? (Future Directions & Research)

[53:06–54:27]

• Dr. Gilbert is actively pushing MI integration into ABA programs. She encourages research on:
  • MI’s impact on staff and RBT effectiveness (OBM lens).
  • Data on buy-in, intervention fidelity, and behavior-change rates.
  • Training and supervision methods for MI in ABA.

Dr. Monica Gilbert’s Recommended MI Resources

• Book: “How to Stop Talking and Start Communicating With Motivational Interviewing” (Amazon)
• Podcast: “MI for Change”
• Deck cards: MI cheat sheets for in-the-moment practice (Amazon)
• Webinars, training, and consultations (see drmonicagilbert.com or contact info@drmonicagilbert.com)
• LinkedIn & Instagram: @drmonicagilbert

Final Thoughts

• MI is not just rapport-building—it’s a process of authentic, collaborative, and effective partnership aimed at behavior change and practical outcomes.
• Essential to integrate into ABA both for client change and for practitioner well-being.
• MI practice requires genuine effort, reflection, and feedback—beyond acronyms or scripting.
• “Change talk” is a goal, but only if client-driven and reinforced with fidelity and compassion.

For More:

• drmonicagilbert.com
• Previous ABA Inside Track episodes on compassionate care, rapport building, parent training, and collaboration ([see episode numbers in transcript]).