Podcast Summary: ABA Inside Track – Episode 335

"Role Playing Games in Behavior Analysis" with Danielle Yang

Released: February 18, 2026
Host: Robert (Rob) Perry Crews, with co-hosts Jackie McDowell and Diana Perry Crews
Guest: Danielle Yang, BCBA and Founder of Fantasy Frameworks Therapy

Episode Overview

This episode explores the intersection of tabletop role-playing games (TTRPGs)—such as Dungeons & Dragons (D&D)—and behavior analysis, particularly their use as tools for social skills training and therapeutic intervention. Guest expert Danielle Yang shares her clinical experiences, research findings, and practical recommendations for integrating role-playing games into behavioral work for clients with diverse needs. The hosts and Danielle discuss the state of research, practical application strategies, and the potential benefits and limitations of this novel approach.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Danielle Yang’s Journey into TTRPGs in Behavior Analysis

• Background: Danielle is a BCBA who has been a lifelong player of TTRPGs, later translating her passion into clinical practice.
• Origin Story: She began using TTRPGs professionally eight years ago with a client who struggled with social skills and wanted to learn D&D. Their sessions were transformed by incorporating the game, which provided structure and motivation for reciprocal interaction and skill practice.
  • Danielle (06:24): "Playing this game together completely turned our sessions around. Having that structure provided just the antecedent arrangement he needed..."

2. Definition & Range of TTRPGs

• What is a TTRPG?
  • Collaborative storytelling games where each player assumes the role of a character. The "tabletop" addition means there are dice, tokens, and some rules to structure play.
  • A Game Master (GM) acts as the environment, arranging antecedents and consequences dynamically for the players.
  • Danielle (10:05): "...An RPG is some game where you're playing as a character in some sort of fictional, usually fantasy setting and you and the other players pretend together and collaboratively tell a story."
• System Variety:
  • While D&D is most popular, there are many systems ranging from "rules-heavy" ("crunchy") to "rules-light," each with varying suitability for clinical use.
  • Danielle: Simpler systems are often better for therapeutic settings, but popularity and client preference are key motivators.

3. Therapeutic & Behavioral Rationale for TTRPGs

• Social Validity & Motivation: High client and family buy-in, inherently motivating for many, and a “fun” context for skills practice.
• Behavior Skills Training (BST) & Role Play: TTRPGs offer immersive, ongoing role-play opportunities, allowing for more authentic and naturalistic practice compared to traditional BST role-plays.
  • Danielle (24:16): "The ongoing narrative part...is more immersive and seems more like real life, even though you might be slaying dragons."
• Psychological Safety: The fictional context provides a safe space to practice potentially aversive or sensitive skills, making it easier to contact delayed or negative consequences.
  • Danielle (21:58): "There's what the research usually calls psychological safety, but is basically...the game separation to start."
• Environmental Control: The GM—often the therapist—controls the world, allowing precise manipulation of antecedents and consequences.

4. Current State of the Research

• Scoping Reviews Discussed:
  • Yuliawadi et al. (2024): "A Scoping Review of Tabletop Role Playing Games as Psychological Interventions"
  • Aranas et al. (2022): "Therapeutic Use of Role Playing Games in Mental Health"
  • Helbig (2019): Unpublished dissertation on RPGs and ASD social skills
• Findings:
  • Lots of theoretical and descriptive studies; relatively few controlled experimental studies.
  • Positive trends: High engagement, social validity, psychological safety.
  • Missing: Strong comparison studies (TTRPGs vs. treatment-as-usual/BST), long-term generalization data, experimental rigor.
• Danielle’s Anecdotal Insights: Echo research—clients find sessions fun and immersive, and there's potential for greater generalization and narrative context compared to "standard" BST.

5. Practical Implementation

• Session Structure:
  • Start with behavioral objectives, then craft the RPG story to create practice opportunities for target skills.
  • Examples: Building campaigns to target tacting and reacting to emotions, greetings, problem-solving.
  • Danielle (39:11): "Designing the campaign is secondary to...designing the behavior plan. You have your client and you have, okay, this is their target behaviors..."
• Customization:
  • Train loosely, build in client interests, use familiar game tropes or modify movies/stories to fit.
• Group vs. Individual:
  • One-on-one is recommended for beginners; groups offer added social opportunities but are more complex to manage.
  • Ensure clients in groups have similar goals for efficient programming.
• Supporting Staff:
  • Best if the BCBA/GM is fluent in the game—running both therapy and the game simultaneously is a unique skill set.
  • RBTS can assist with data collection to free up the BCBA for game management and dynamic therapy.

6. Case Example: The Helbig Dissertation

• Structure: Used BST for social skills (greeting, responding to greetings, accepting feedback) in the context of custom RPG adventures.
• Data: Targeted both in-game and generalization (pre-session) use of skills.
• Danielle’s Take: Useful model—recommends more functional definitions, broader generalization focus, and ensuring skills are genuinely meaningful beyond the RPG context.

7. Limitations & Future Research Needs

• Research Gaps:
  • Need for rigorous, peer-reviewed, behavior analytic studies with clear experimental design.
  • Head-to-head comparisons with treatment-as-usual/BST.
  • Better operationalization of client motivation, engagement, and generalization.
  • Danielle (59:01): "It's time we move, move on from the theoretical papers..."
• Field Call-to-Action:
  • Behavior analysts well-equipped for research in this area.
  • Opportunity to advance field and client outcomes with empirical studies.

8. Getting Started and Ethical Considerations

• For Interested Practitioners:

  • Develop fluency in both TTRPG systems and behavioral programming.
  • Focus on the client’s goals rather than shoehorning an “epic” story.
  • Take Danielle’s courses, play with peers, or collaborate with experienced GMs/BCBAs.
  • Use TTRPG elements flexibly—even brief, one-off “adventures” can be motivating.

• Efficiency & Bias:

  • Be mindful not to over-prioritize personal enjoyment or unnecessarily complicate interventions.
  • Engage only when TTRPGs meaningfully enhance treatment for a given client.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Playing this game together completely turned our sessions around."
  – Danielle Yang ([06:24])

• "The game master controls the environment...which you can imagine gives clinicians some power to put in just the right stimulus, prompt or saliency..."
  – Danielle Yang ([10:05])

• "A huge benefit of it is the social validity piece. You know, clients tend to love it and parents tend to love it..."
  – Danielle Yang ([09:12])

• "There are a whole bunch of theoretical articles of people saying, wow, TTRPG has the same structure as group therapy..."
  – Danielle Yang ([21:58])

• "When I play recreationally, I will spend hours in between sessions planning this cool, epic story for my friends. But that's not a behavior analytic service..."
  – Danielle Yang ([39:18])

• "It doesn't have to be we're going to do a three month campaign...it could just be...You could probably start to use some of these storytelling elements to increase your, your motivating operations for engagement."
  – Danielle Yang ([68:33])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:13] Danielle Yang’s introduction and clinical origin story
• [10:05–12:19] Defining TTRPGs and their relevance for behavior analysis
• [21:23–24:16] Research findings and practical benefits (social validity, psychological safety)
• [39:10–41:45] How to build goals and design a therapeutic campaign
• [51:15–55:12] Discussion of the Helbig dissertation—structure, strengths, and areas for improvement
• [59:01–60:43] Research gaps and future needs in behavior-analytic studies of TTRPGs
• [63:51–66:55] Advice for practitioners: where to start, how to build competency, and ethical reminders

Resources & Further Learning

• Danielle Yang:
  • Offers training and consultation at fantasyframeworkstherapy.com
  • Email: fantasyframeworkstherapymail
  • Discord server for BA + RPG discussions (see show notes for invite link)
• Scoping Reviews & Key Papers:
  • Yuliawadi et al. (2024), Aranas et al. (2022), Helbig (2019, dissertation)
• Bonus: Upcoming live-play demonstration episode with Danielle and the ABA Inside Track hosts

Final Thoughts from the Hosts

• The field is on the cusp of a wave—TTRPGs offer a rich, flexible, and motivating context for real-life skill development. Implementation must be individualized, goal-directed, and balanced with sound behavioral science.
• If you’re “game” to try, start simple, work on your fluency, and keep your clients’ needs and interests front and center.

For Listeners Who Want More

• Check out prior ABA Inside Track episodes on:
  • Gamification (Ep. 76)
  • Turn-Taking (Ep. 155)
  • Incorporating Unique Interests (Ep. 160)
  • Generalization (Ep. 223)
  • Social Validity (Ep. 290)
• Bonus listen: Patrons can access an older episode on D&D gamification in the archives.

Summary Prepared By: ABA Inside Track Podcast Summarizer AI
For more information, visit: abainsidetrack.com or fantasyframeworkstherapy.com