← ABA Inside Track
ABA Inside Track
October 2025 Preview
00:19:11
LIVE via recording from St. Charles, Missouri! It’s a preview episode! Yes, we continue our fall tradition of discussing everything coming out this spoooooky month from the comfort of the Conference hall. We spend some time gushing about all the...
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A
Foreign.
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Hey, everybody. Welcome to ABA Inside Track, the podcast that's like reading in your car, but safer. I'm your host, Robert Perry Crews, and with me, as always, are my fabulous co hosts.
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C
Hello, Rob. It's me, Diana Perry Cruz. Nice to see you here.
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A
And it's me, Jackie McDonald.
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B
Wow.
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A
Only one more month and I'm second again.
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B
I don't know, you guys pick the weirdest bits. Supposed to mine what you're well thought out plan.
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A
I'm very thought out.
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B
Well, this is a podcast about behavior analysis and behavior analytic research where every week we pick a topic and discuss it at length. Unless it's the last week of the month for our patrons or the first week of the month for everybody else, in which case we do a preview where we talk about all sorts of goodies, including what's coming out this month and then other things that are interesting to us and to you. We hope. If you noticed that my initial. Hey, everybody. And my whole spiel at the beginning was kind of slow or more stilted than usual. It's because the stimulus control of recording is all messed up because we are live in St. Charles, Missouri, at the Thompson Center's 20th conference. I know. It's their 20th anniversary this year.
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A
We've been there almost as long. Yeah, the conference center.
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B
No, that can't be.
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C
No, no, we haven't.
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B
We haven't had a podcast that long.
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A
That's true.
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C
Robin, you and I have been married almost as long as the Thompson Center.
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B
Oh, wow.
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C
Having a conference for autism.
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B
That's why we got married originally. Did you hear about that conference? Seems like a good marriage time. You know how it works.
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C
Yeah. We're one year behind them, but we are.
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B
I mean, we heard about it. You got to plan a wedding.
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C
Sure. I mean, these things take time. Yeah.
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B
But yes, we are here. We're very excited to be invited to present again. And we're here at our kind of space off on the side. Lunch is sort of winding down. We got some more talks coming in, but we are going to do our preview.
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C
Lunch was so good.
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B
It was a very good lunch. But we're doing our preview here. We're going to talk all about what's coming up this October.
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All right.
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C
Is that my cue?
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B
That's your cue.
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C
Okay. What is coming up? I'm going to let you know. So for the month of October, we have three full length episodes planned for our listeners. And the first one is our fall grab bag. So the leaves are rustling and so are the papers coming out of the grab bag.
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A
You forgot we got rid of the grab bag.
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C
Well, they don't know that yet.
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A
Oh, sorry everyone.
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B
Canonically, we haven't yet.
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C
We're not getting rid of the grab bag episodes. We like doing them. Hopefully you like the kids.
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B
They threw the bag up in a tree and the research is just rustling down whatever lands on our heads. Let's know. I think the new bit should be every every grab bag we have a new bit about fake grab bag.
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C
Yes, it's teepee in the we tepeed all the trees with the research articles. And here's the first one. Do persons with intellectual and developmental disabilities prefer to save the best for last in an MSWO a preliminary investigation by Castillo, Frank, Crawford, Leesfield, Doan, Newcome, Rooker and Barrero that was in the original looking version of Behavioral Interventions 2022.
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Not the new, not new and improved yet modern version.
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Not yet. Also, the Effects of Group Virtual Training and Self Monitoring on Leading a meeting by Blackman, Dejanara, Reid, Guenter and Brerin that was published in Java 2025. And finally, curriculum Based Evaluation of Cultural Competency Coursework in an online Applied Behavior Analysis Grad program by Petrone, Napolitano, Faith and Shanahan. And that was in Behavior analysis and practice 2025. Next up, we were very excited and pleased to have the opportunity to talk to Dr. Amy Booksman about behavioral artistry. So we had had a previous episode where we reviewed one article. She has more out for us to.
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Talk about and she answered one of our questions. We're like I wonder this. And she wrote back and said I also wondered that. And here's the follow up article. Yes, so and this is where we accidentally called in the previous episode. We accidentally called.
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B
We had the wrong. Wrong citation.
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A
Yes, but it is her.
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C
Not in the beginning. Just at one point during the episode.
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B
If you said what? Sorry about that section of the preview or errata where you talk about your mistakes. There aren't as many mistakes. Well, you can listen to that episode and we hear about the mistake from the offended person there.
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A
Apologize again.
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C
Yeah.
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Yes.
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C
So the the hot off the press's new article that we will be discussing with Dr. Booksban is utilizing the Teaching Interaction Procedure to Train Special Education Teachers in Behavioral Artistry by Bookspan, Leaf, o', Brien, Lewis, Christensen, Lord, Axe and Weiss. That was in the new and improved version of Behavioral Interventions 2025. And then the previous article as well. We, you know, circled back on that. Training Behavior Technicians to Become Behavior Artists through the Teaching Interaction Procedure by Bookspan Anderson, Moon, Kaplan, and Leaf. And that was in the previous looking version of Behavioral Interventions 2023. I know none of that matters for our listeners, but I mean, it might. It matters to me.
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Like, I'm not. I'm not reading this if it's. If it's an old.
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I like the new version, the modern one.
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C
Okay. And then to round out October, we have an episode specifically dedicated to safety skills. Teaching safety skills. What that should look like, what are best case practices.
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B
The episode, I am convinced throughout the recording we'd already done.
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We have not.
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No, not specifically. Right. Yes. And we haven't reviewed the articles that we talked about in this episode before, so here they are. Evaluation of Behavioral Skills Training to Prevent Gunplay in Children by Miltenberger, Flesner, Gathering, Johnson, Satterland, and Egmo. That was in Java 2004. Effectiveness of video modeling and teaching earthquake and post earthquake evacuation Safety skills for Children with Autism by Kurt, Sevener and Kutlu. That was in Java 2023. Teaching safety skills to children. A discussion of critical features and practice recommendations by Baruni and Miltenberger. That was in BAP 2022. And finally, a survey of safety skills training used by behavior analysts in practice, also by Baruni and Miltenberger, also in BAP 2024.
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B
Beautiful.
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C
So lots to look forward to.
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B
These are a lot of exciting episodes. Going to be a lot of fun talking about them or spoiler alert, we already did these episodes. They'll be coming out pretty soon. Excellent. All right, well, that's what's coming out in October. Let's move into the errata section of the show where we talk about everything else. It could be mistakes, but again, you'll hear most of our mistakes on the behavioral artistry episode where Dr. Books man reminds us of some little citation snafus. But other than that, what's going on? Well, certainly we're recording at the Thompson center for Autism Conference because. Well, we were here at the conference. We've gotten to see. We're almost at the end of the conference, so we've seen most of the talks at this point. Not all of them. We did our talk the other day.
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A
What was our talk called? Rob.
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B
The official name of it. Like the fancy name?
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A
No, but what did we do?
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B
Oh, people might want to know. We talked about setting goals with Nerd, for. For. With that. I don't want to say four. I almost said four, which is not what our talk was about. It was about setting meaningful goals or teaching individuals, neurodivergent individuals set to Set meaningful goals and being allies in their self determination around setting those goals. The title is much more succinct.
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C
You know, it was Neurodiversity Affirming Practices and Behavioral Goal Setting.
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B
That's why you wrote the title and I did, because my title was like two slides long with that. Hold on, Wait. It's not that. That's not what I meant. What I meant to say was. Yeah, no, that's why I don't go to a lot of conferences. Like, my title's the norm. No one comes to my talks too long. Yes. So we did. We did our talk the other day, and it's always hard because I get so used to doing this podcast where we just kind of talk and we're like, think that went great, everybody. High fives all around. And because we don't see anybody but ourselves, sometimes you have a guest and they're like, I had fun. I'm like, oh, that's great. When you're doing a talk, you're sort of like, looking around the audience and there's so many people. And, you know, people are getting up. They get up and they go into the bathroom, or they're like, this is the worst talk I've ever heard. You're trying to get out of your own head at the end. Everyone does at least feel obligated to clap. Are they clapping because they liked your talk? Are they clapping because they're like, I'm glad this is over? Mercifully, I'm just a polite human, you know, so it's always a little different to sort of see, like, what feedback is there going to be? What's the vibe of the room? And then usually people get to another talk, so you can't chase them down. Like, what'd you think of my talk, everybody?
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But we'll get the evaluations.
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We'll get evaluations. And certainly when we've been, you know, moving around or talking with people on the floor, everyone's been very, very friendly, as always, very, very fun to talk to. I had someone ask me a really interesting question about the talk, like, right afterwards, which is cool. So I think it went well in that regard. How about y'? All?
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A
Yeah, I thought it was fun. And we didn't get a standing ovation, like, the opening keynote.
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B
I mean, I don't. That's fine. I think that was a pretty awesome opening keynote.
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A
Amazing keynote. So it was an autism advocate. She was autistic and communicated via AAC throughout the entire keynote. I can't remember her name right now. Catalina It's Drana. I want to say.
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C
I might have to look it up.
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Yeah. But it was an amazing.
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I think that.
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Right.
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Yeah. It was a fantastic talk.
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It really, it really kicked off the conference.
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People were crying. I was sitting next to a lady and she was like, I can't handle this. She was like crying. Cuz it was just very. It was so informative and it was a really good perspective.
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C
Very well put together child.
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B
It was, it was, it was. That's how you start. You start your conference with something. I think it sets, it set a tone. The rest of the. I think what people were talking about, talking about care. I just actually came from a talk about self determination. So just. It just felt like a thematically awesome way to start it with just someone who's speaking about their lived perspective, who they were as an individual, their strengths, their challenges. It wasn't, you know, any sort of like a raw rusher. It was like a very real. Just an experience and shared and just a chance to sit and listen to that was, was. It was really, it was really great.
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Yeah. And I want to make sure I get her name correct. So it's Catlina Varana.
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Okay. Well, it was amazing.
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B
Yeah. We've been seeing some other talks too. Certainly.
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I just saw one on health and fitness and how one can set achievable goals in conjunction with individuals with disabilities in order to improve overall exercise, healthy food intake, water intake, etc. It's a lot. There's a lot of data.
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That was cool.
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Yeah.
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I thought they were going to show just like squat techniques and I was like, I don't know if I need.
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They did that too.
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Oh damn.
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C
Dr. Brandon May was who was giving that talk.
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B
Very nice. I just came from. I think I mentioned self determination. I know. Yesterday we saw a friend of the friend of the show, Dr. Casey Clay, kind of following up on some of his virtual reality research that he'd been doing. He came on the show to talk about that. So we got to see kind of the continued iterations of VR and training was a fun FA scene which had come a long way since I think God must have been like eight years. Eight years ago. He was showing his FCT VR training. It was a lot cruder looking at this conference.
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Yeah, we're sitting at lunch. Wasn't here. It was in Chesterfield.
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That's right.
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That, that presentation, the current presentation made that one look like, you know, that was the Toy Story 4 to the Toy Story 1 that it looked like eight years ago.
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That was the first time I had Ever done VR? And I fell out of my chair. It was like a stranger theme. A stranger thing scene. And I was like in the living room and like a. Oh, that's what you were watching.
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It was scary watching. Oh, okay.
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He's like, have you ever tried VR? And I was like, no. And this is when I could do those types of things now. I would grow up. But. And I, I. When the, the animal came out, like whatever. The ant, spider.
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C
I didn't do it.
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Oh, whenever the Demogorgon.
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Yeah, the Demogorgon came out of the. Out of the kitchen, I fell off my chair.
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We were. I think we're having a. We're having a meal. It was a lot of fun.
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It was very embarrassing because you never know what. You never want to fall off your chair. And lunch.
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No. So it's not good. It's great. He didn't put that in the limitation section of his, like, people training might fall out of their chair at a meal and be embarrassed and talk about it for years.
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Talking for eight years.
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Yes. So, again, really great presentation. Excited for the last couple talks. And then we'll be flying back home to Massachusetts to get ready for another conference coming up.
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C
That's right.
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B
It feels a little rude to talk about one conference when you're at a different conference. But that's what we got to do for the preview. Because when you're.
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C
October.
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B
Because it's October, right?
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C
October.
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B
And that will be our. Our local conference, the Babbitt 2025 conference out in Worcester, Massachusetts.
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C
Happening right there in Worcester.
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B
In Worcester, that's right. At the DCU Center.
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C
Yep.
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And you can come see us the night before at Trivia again at the Mercantile, which is so exciting. Rob has planned a lot of.
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B
Oh, yes. If you are saying I want another Brad Pitt or laser as well, I made one. So there you go.
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C
So that. That will be happening on Wednesday, October 15th. And then the full conference is the Thursday, Friday, October 16th and 17th, including the post recession Thursday evening.
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A
Always a good time.
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C
You could come see.
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B
Yes. Yeah. If you were saying, I really want to see Robin two days in a row. We'll come to Trivia on Wednesday. And then I'm doing a talk on consultation and consultative behaviors and improving constituted practice on Thursday.
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A
Diana, you're doing two talks.
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C
It's very possible that I'm doing two talks.
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B
You want to check that agenda?
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C
I was afraid that you were about to ask me that.
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Yes. Diana is doing a panel on udl.
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That's right. Universal Design for Learning.
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You also are doing A symposium.
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Yes.
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On reinforcer assessments.
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That's correct.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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And I'm just doing the talk on universal. Universal design. But I do want to tell everyone this because it was hilarious.
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C
Okay.
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I was looking through the Babbitt, you know, like, looking through all the different things that you could go see. And I was, like, trying to, like, plan out, even though it's like, a while. Like, plan out what I'm doing.
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C
Yeah.
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Scheduling. I couldn't think of the word. And I saw our talk, and it was like, using edl.
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C
Using udl. It's called. What's UDL got to do with it?
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B
Oh, yeah.
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Using UDL in higher education. I was like, ooh, I really want to go to this one. I'm going to learn a lot. And then I scrolled just a tiny bit up and there was my name, and I was like, oh, I guess I'm going to that.
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B
There you go.
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And hopefully I don't learn anything because I should be telling people.
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B
That's very true. All right.
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I really like to name them something that's, like, eye catching.
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That. Yeah. So mine is just like. Mine would be like, UDL in higher education, period.
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Yeah. So that one's called what's UDL got to do with It? And then my other one, it's come all coming back to me. It's called let's Go to the Toy Store.
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Nice.
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Something about preference assessments.
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Oh, very fun.
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So, yeah, it's going to be a really fun time.
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And we have many students. Sorry, I'm just excited. Regis students and Regis alums who are going to be either giving symposia, presentations or posters. Yeah.
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11 over 10, at least.
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Yeah. So come to Babbitt and support our students, please.
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Yeah.
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And there'll be other people there, too, not just us.
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C
It's possible. We don't.
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B
It's not just us doing the same talk over and over. I know Dr. Miltenberger, I believe, is there this year. So you're going to chase him down, fangirl him up. I'm going to ask him if he'll be in my video where he buss in like the Kool Aid man to do safety skills. You need to listen to the full episode for the story behind that. I don't know if he's going to be cool with it, but maybe he will be. Wouldn't that be funny? Yeah, I think so. Does anyone else, Sir Matthew Brodhead. He did. He did appreciate the title.
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C
I kind of look down on that then.
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B
Well, and if you're not able to make it to any conferences. Maybe you have a local conference you can go to. I know there's a lot of conferences, like, all around the country. We haven't actually looked into too many outside of the country, but I know they exist.
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A
I mean, the next one is in Portugal, I think.
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B
I think. Right, Abi, the international one. Excellent.
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C
It's fancy.
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B
Yeah. But also. And if you still can't make it to any of those local conferences, don't worry. We're going to have our. We typically have a bonus episode where we talk to some of the student poster presenters here at the Thompson Center. So we'll have that audio out at some point in the near future. Probably sometime this month, try to get it done.
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A
Yeah, that was really interesting because it's multidisciplinary.
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C
Yes.
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A
So there's, there's doctors, there's. There's research on genome sequencing.
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B
It was really.
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C
Yeah. A lot of genetic research.
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B
There were definitely some posters I looked at. There were too many phonemes in the title because it was talking about a gene or a drug. And I said, this looks very smart and I'm not smart enough for it. So I.
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C
There are a lot of great posters.
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B
A lot of great posters.
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C
Yeah.
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B
It was really, really good showing from the. From the various students and practitioners. Oh, well, I think the only other piece of news is we're starting a new Patreon tier. It's going to be for $3,000 and we only have room for one person. And I'm going to use that money to purchase Walden 2, first edition, signed by B.F. skinner.
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C
Oh, my God.
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B
Unfortunately, I realized the timing of this new Patreon tier is after the auction for it by the B.F. skinner foundation has ended. So I don't know if it's worth. I mean, I guess I could do it now. See if we just have $3,000 for the next auction of a first edition signed Skinner book, but I don't think it's happening.
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C
So you just want to use it as your personal GoFundMe?
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A
Yeah.
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C
Oh, GoFundMe.
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B
I should have done that. That would have been. I want to buy this book. My wife won't let me. What the heck?
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C
I've already said no to this.
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B
I can't funnel the money out of our podcast and children's college funds into buying a book I own already.
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C
You.
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A
You asked me too, and I said.
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C
Also said no. Right.
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A
As a friend, will you lend me that money? And I was like, no.
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B
Is this. This might be the second time something either has been raffled or auctioned off. Signed Skinner. I feel like Babbitt did like a verbal behavior at one of the things.
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A
At one of the social.
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B
I am so sure there was like, it was like a raffle bag and I kind of peeked in. There were like no tickets in there. I put all my tickets in that bag and I would not be shocked if one person shut my ticket in and they won it. I don't remember who it was. They're my enemy for life.
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A
That's how it happens.
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B
If I could remember.
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C
You want to get on Rob's good side? You just have to get him a signed copy of a book.
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B
Yes, I do love signed copies of books.
- [18:11]
C
Love signed copies of books.
- [18:12]
B
But now I want one sign by bfc Anyway. Anyway. Oh, it looks like the talks are go. That was Diana clapping. But it does look like people are starting to go into the next room and we need to go into the next room for the next talk. So we're going to cut this a little short. So no emails this month, though. Thanks. For folks who've been commenting on the website and on the Patreon page, I've been trying to remember to write back to you, but if I have not, fear not, it's his fault.
- [18:33]
A
Send me an email and I'll.
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B
Yeah, it is. It is not the easiest system sometimes to notice those things, but in any case, we'll be back with the first of those October episodes next month. Hopefully we'll run into you. If we didn't see you at the Thompson Center Conference, maybe we'll see you at Babbitt. Keep an eye out for our bonus episode to get a feel for the poster session. And we'll be back with our first October episode next week. But until then, keep responding. Bye.
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A
Bye.