Heather McMahon (2:25)

every 30 minutes afraid you've missed your alarm. And, like, today's a day. You know, my entire life, I've worked

Vivian Tu (2:31)

for a whole year for this one day. And what if I miss my slot to actually get my hair and makeup done? Hair and makeup starts at 6. It takes a lot to get me to look like this. That's like two hours right there.

Heather McMahon (2:41)

You look gorgeous. We have a feathered skirt on. I'm loving the look. See, again, this is. It's glam, but it's also giving. Hey, I'm gonna teach you how health insurance works.

Vivian Tu (2:50)

That's exactly right.

Heather McMahon (2:50)

I was reading the book on the way back from Saint Barts yesterday, and here I am, like, just absorbing everything. And I was like, thank you so much for breaking down health insurance in a way that actually made sense. Because the different plans never made sense to what you need to pick. Doesn't make sense. Deductibles, premiums, all of it. I found that to be so incredibly helpful. I'm literally, like, taking notes in the book, like, okay, this makes sense. Now I know what the hell to ask for when I'm in the marketplace looking for insurance.

Vivian Tu (3:16)

Which, by the way, can we just ask, why the fuck did they name it that stuff? Like, why is it an hmo, a ppo, hdhp, hsa? Like, stop using acronyms. Just call shit what it is.

Heather McMahon (3:26)

I feel sometimes that I don't even want to say, like, the elite, just in general, everybody tries to make things so complicated so that it will confuse the everyday man. When this is stuff that everybody needs.

Vivian Tu (3:37)

Yeah, a hundred percent. Because at the end of the day, right, like, we don't teach this stuff K12. You want to know why? Because you still need somebody at the gas station to check you out. You need someone to be waiting those tables. Like, I don't want to sound like I have a tinfoil hat on, but, like, we need people to literally prop up the economy. And if you teach people how to actually be smart and make smart decisions with their money, they're not going to do the shitty jobs anymore, period.

Heather McMahon (3:59)

You heard it here first. Now, you started in Wall street, and then when did you make the switch from Wall street to, like, strategically putting out online social media content?

Vivian Tu (4:09)

Yeah. So I was on Wall street for two and a half years, and I had a great first year and a half because I had an incredible mentor, incredible manager. The beginning of the end really happened when the head of my desk got let go. New guy brought in fired half the team. They brought in a new guy, and he was going to be, you know, the guy, and he ended up bringing in his best friend, who then I started working for. Guy sucks, by the way. Super sucks, dude.

Heather McMahon (4:34)

It's like a guy named Mark and Carl, and they're in cahoots and they fucking suck.

Vivian Tu (4:39)

Yeah, you know what? Let's not even do Mark dirty, because I had a really good friend at work named Mark. But you know what it is? This guy. I couldn't get a thing right with him. He was like. Didn't like how my nails click clack on the keyboard. Didn't like how I did my makeup. Wore a long cardigan to work one day. He goes, is that a kimono, sir? Don't do that to me.

Heather McMahon (4:57)

He kimono'd you?

Vivian Tu (4:58)

He kimono'd me.

Heather McMahon (4:59)

No, absolutely not. Let's kill him. Burn him at the stake.

Vivian Tu (5:01)

Exactly.

Heather McMahon (5:02)

So he said, is that a kimono? He said, what does it matter? Do you know what the Dow Jones is doing right now, sir? Like, walk away. Walk away.

Vivian Tu (5:09)

But also, like, I just wanted to punch him in the throat.

Heather McMahon (5:11)

Yeah. Fuck, yeah.

Vivian Tu (5:12)

But, like, I ended up deciding. I was like, I'm not gonna be disrespected. So I ended up pivoting into media. So then I get this job at BuzzFeed. I'm in digital strategy. Sales.

Heather McMahon (5:22)

Right.

Vivian Tu (5:23)

Basically, I'm making the Internet a worse place. I'm putting ads on the Internet.

Heather McMahon (5:26)

And you explain that in your book. You really break down how marketing, how we are. We fall for the trap, if you will.

Vivian Tu (5:32)

Yeah, yeah.

Heather McMahon (5:33)

And you said you're like, I was a little bit of a part of it.

Vivian Tu (5:35)

Yeah. Like, I am the bad guy making the Internet worse.

Heather McMahon (5:38)

Right.

Vivian Tu (5:38)

But, like, that's why your rich BFF exists. Cause I took those two pieces, the media piece and the finance piece. I put it together, and I built your rich bff. But do you want to talk about some of those secrets I learned?

Heather McMahon (5:50)

I absolutely want to talk about this.

Vivian Tu (5:52)

Okay, so let me give you just a little background. Little story.

Heather McMahon (5:55)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (5:55)

Okay. I was looking at a pair of shoes the other day, and I was like, these shoes are so beautiful. I was clicking around on the site. I was like, what are the different color combos? Oh, maybe I want to do the embossed leather. Maybe I want the patent. Maybe I want the regular.

Heather McMahon (6:08)

Whatever.

Vivian Tu (6:09)

I'm on this website for at least six and a half minutes.

Heather McMahon (6:12)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (6:13)

Okay. And then I'm like, you know what? These shoes are really pricey. I'm Gonna take a beat. Yeah, I'll think about it.

Heather McMahon (6:19)

Right.

Vivian Tu (6:20)

Cause I'm, you know, frugal. I'm. I'm a smart woman, as we all are. And then I open my Instagram and the shoes have followed me. They have followed me into my Instagram feed, and I'm like, oh, my God, the shoes.

Heather McMahon (6:32)

They're starting. Jessica Simpson is stalking you for these heels. Yep.

Vivian Tu (6:35)

And then I'm like, okay, you know what? I'm gonna go read an article. Cause I'm about to put something together about some news that's coming out. Oh, my God. On the New York Times. The shoes, they followed me.

Heather McMahon (6:44)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (6:45)

Basically what happens. And I still fall for this, even though I was a part of this. When you go to a retailer's website, there is something called a one by one pixel. It's literally a one by one teeny, tiny pixel in the corner. In the corner. You'll never see it. And what it does is it's like an Apple air tag in your pocket.

Heather McMahon (7:03)

Right.

Vivian Tu (7:03)

And then it follows you around the Internet. So by the third time you're seeing these shoes, you're like, it's divine intervention. When in fact, someone like me has made your Internet viewing experience worse. And that is why you are literally compulsively spending, because you can't get away from those purchases.

Heather McMahon (7:21)

I thought that your. The question that you wanted your reader and listener to ask themselves was very smart. Okay. You've seen this shoe 65 different times. The way that our brains are, you know, it's just compulsive. We just see it all day over and over and over again. But what you're asking in the book is like, do you really need this? And I thought this line was fantastic. Okay, would you tell people, your friends about this product? Say, if it's a brand, you buy the brand new BMW. Would you tell your friends about this BMW and how much you liked this product and how much you wanted it if it didn't have the BMW name or if you couldn't share about it on social media.

Vivian Tu (7:56)

Exactly. Do you want it or do you want to tell people you have it?

Heather McMahon (7:59)

Exactly. And that was a real oh, shit moment for me where it's like, yeah, like, am I buying this actually because I enjoy how it makes me feel, how I use it? Is it helpful for me or is it just because I want to blast it on social media media?

Vivian Tu (8:11)

Yeah, because think about it, right? There are so many people out there who are buying Beamer, Benz or Bentley.

Heather McMahon (8:17)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (8:17)

And they're not car People like, if you closed your eyes, you could not tell the difference between this car versus a Toyota Prius. Like you can't tell the handling. It's not that deep.

Heather McMahon (8:27)

Right.

Vivian Tu (8:27)

But you love to show people that your car is a BMW because it's a sexy car. You know, you see the ads, they look amazing. But think about it this way. When you go to bed at night and you lay on that mattress.

Heather McMahon (8:41)

Yep, I'm closing my eyes. Okay, we're acting this out and you

Vivian Tu (8:44)

wake up in the morning and your back hurts, you're really pissed off, right?

Heather McMahon (8:48)

Oh, yeah, I am. I did a consumer Reports deep dive on mattresses, so keep going.

Vivian Tu (8:53)

I don't hear people going around bragging about the type of mattress they have. But like, I have a multi thousand dollar mattress because me and my husband had such back pain. We're both stomach sleepers, which is insane.

Heather McMahon (9:04)

Same I'm in mountain climber position and they say it means you' fight or flight.

Vivian Tu (9:10)

Yes.

Heather McMahon (9:10)

So I'm working on that.

Vivian Tu (9:11)

Yeah, yeah. But like, people aren't bragging about their mattresses. The thing for me is, like, would I rather spend thousands of dollars on a really good product that I can't tell anybody about that it's not sexy to brag about because I actually get joy out of that. I wake up a better person, or would I rather have something that just because I want to show it off? Like, does this bag hold other stuff better? Does this, you know, pair of shoes that happens to have a certain colored bottom feel better? They don't. I'm telling you now. They don't.

Heather McMahon (9:39)

They don't.

Vivian Tu (9:40)

They don't.

Heather McMahon (9:40)

They hurt more?

Vivian Tu (9:41)

Actually, no.

Heather McMahon (9:41)

And I've been very loyal to Cole Haan and Jessica Simpson because those are those shoes that actually you can, like, you could, you could run a marathon. You could run the New York City marathon in a pair of Jessica Simpson boots.

Vivian Tu (9:50)

That is so.

Heather McMahon (9:51)

Hold my hand at the fire on that one.

Vivian Tu (9:53)

There is a pair of Jessica Simpson red heels that I had in college.

Heather McMahon (9:57)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (9:58)

That I could walk, I kid you not. A half marathon in every single night. We would go out dancing, they would come back so beat up. But your feet didn't hurt all night.

Heather McMahon (10:07)

Oh, I've gotten them resoled 65 times. These shoes are from the early aughts. And you would wear the open toed,

Vivian Tu (10:13)

like in the winter.

Heather McMahon (10:14)

In the winter, no puff coat, in a tiny BCBG dress on your way home from the bars. And you were thriving. I mean, if a perp was trying to Chase me. I would do better in my Jessica Simpson wedges than I would do in a Nike.

Vivian Tu (10:27)

That's correct.

Heather McMahon (10:28)

I really found the way that you broke down though. I mean, again, I've got to the mortgage part, which has been very helpful for me because we just bought a home. But I just think that the way your brain breaks down and I say your brain in a very simplified way, but the way that our brains connected, as I read the book, it just made sense. I was like, this is my girl talking to me, not talking above me, not talking down to me. You have a great way of explaining to your listeners and your audience, hey, let's make better decisions. And it's not a shame. Cause I think there's a lot of shame around finances. There's a lot of shame in living outside of your means. There's a lot of shame if you have it, you know, are you flaunting it too much? Are you not investing? Right. And that's the other thing is why did nobody teach us about investing in school? Is it like you said before? Yeah, well, because it would keep the man down.

Vivian Tu (11:14)

It would keep the man, you know, it would keep the man down. But also I think for so many families, it's become like investing is something that you need to learn at home. Like if you had the rich uncle to teach you, you wouldn't necessarily need that education outside of that. But if you didn't have parents or relatives that were doing this, it was very hard for you to get this information because it was so gatekept. And the reason it's so gatekept is the jargon.

Heather McMahon (11:37)

Right.

Vivian Tu (11:37)

Like it feels like you're learning a new language when in fact like this math is actually not harder than like basic seventh grade algebra. Right. Like you don't need to like know calculus to understand basic finance math.

Heather McMahon (11:49)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (11:49)

It's just, you know, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, it's not that hard.

Heather McMahon (11:54)

Right.

Vivian Tu (11:54)

But they make it sound hard. So people like us who don't maybe come from that kind of background feel like we can't do it. And so then we need to go hire someone, pay them a huge fee to do it for us. That doesn't actually behoove us.

Heather McMahon (12:09)

Right. I have been feeling like I have needed a reset. Okay. And you know, maybe you've been on a GLP1 for weight loss and you've seen the results. But coming off the medication can be a challenge. Well, they have Prolon's five day fasting mimicking diet offers a drug free way to keep that weight off while protecting muscle and supporting fat loss. I really started studying and looking into fasting and how good it is to like re not even reset the body but to truly almost reset your mind. I really love Prolon. I did it years ago and I do it once or twice a year when I just feel like I am sluggish and I need a reset. And this is why I love Prolon. Prolon is a plant based nutrition program featuring soups, snacks and beverages designed to nourish the body while keeping it in a fasted state triggering cellular rejuvenation and renewal. Developed by over more than two decades at USC's Longevity Institute and backed by top U.S. medical centers, Prolon has been shown to support fat focused weight loss, biological age reduction, metabolic health, skin appearance and more. One of the reasons I love Prolon is you do it and then I swear to God on like day three you are euphoric, you are zipping around, you have energy like you've never felt before. Sometimes we just are so sluggish and we put so much crap in our body that Prolon is an incredible way to reset that. For a limited time, Prolon is offering absolutely not listeners 15% off site wide plus a $40 bonus gift. When you subscribe their five day program just visit prolonlife.com absolutely. That's P R-O-L-O-N-L-I F E.com absolutely to claim your 15% discount and your bonus gift. Prolonglife.com absolutely. Have you ever left a doctor's appointment with results in your hand and still no real understanding like you don't even know what to do next. It is so hard to be left guessing what's going on in your body. Well, HERS understands. Hers is rethinking the outdated healthcare system to finally give women what they deserve. Care that's convenient, supportive, built around their real needs and backed by experts in women's health, HERS now provides convenient access to in depth holistic lab testing with more than 130 biomarker tests that give you meaningful insight into your health and results that make it easy to understand what's actually going on with your body. If eligible, you get access to a doctor developed action plan based on your results with diet and lifestyle guidance to help you move towards your goals. You can also receive personalized treatment plan for heart health, menopause and so much more. This is a new level of clarity that gives you a data backed confidence to make the right health moves so feeling like yourself again doesn't feel so far away and that is so so important. If you want clear insight into your health, go to for hers that's f o r h e r s dot com and schedule your labs today. Again, that is f o r h e r s.com for hers dot com hers is an absolute no brainer. You really should check it out. You want personalized treatment plan for your health then you need to go to forhers.com Let me say it one more time. That's for hers.com youm live for planning the perfect trip. The thrill of comparing hotels, scoring that impossible reservation and piecing together an unforgettable itinerary. Well, you already think like a travel travel advisors so why not just be one? Fora is a modern travel agency built for people who love to plan travel and help others travel as well. Their tech, platform, training and community give you everything you need to turn a passion for travel into a flexible, meaningful stream of income. Forest seems incredible. And as a four advisor you get best in class training, powerful booking tech and a vibrant global community of experts and fellow advisors who share real insider knowledge to help you launch and grow your own travel business with confidence. With access to more than 7,000 preferred travel partners, from iconic brands to boutique gems, you'll unlock VIP perks like upgrades, resort credits, late checkout, giving you and your clients the kind of elevated travel experiences regular travelers simply don't get. So now is the time to fully turn your passion for travel into a fulfilling business with Fora and every hotel, cruise and activity you book as a Fora advisor earns you money in the form of a commission, a percentage of the booking costs. Okay, so it's just like an absolute no brainer. Become a for advisor today@fortravel.com Absolutely. That's F O R A travel.com Absolutely. And make sure to tell them that we sent you forward. Travel.com Absolutely. Again, that is f o r a travel.com Absolutely. Make sure to tell them that absolutely not sent you. But this just seems like an absolute no brainer. What an incredible opportunity to travel and get paid to do it again. Foratravel.com Absolutely. I have some questions. Are you cool if I hit you with some?

Vivian Tu (16:55)

Please.

Heather McMahon (16:55)

So I went to the threads. You know I wanna put the power in the people's hands. Yeah. And we got just a string of random questions. Feel free to answer or pass on any of these. The girlies wanted to know what's something simple I can tell myself to not spend so impulsively. You did touch on this in your book?

Vivian Tu (17:13)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heather McMahon (17:13)

Like again, would you share it? Would you share it with the world, social media, or, or, or not? But what else would you say?

Vivian Tu (17:20)

I would ask yourself, do you want this because you actually want the product or do you want this because you want to feel how the advertisement makes the main character feel? So when you see an ad for hard seltzer, it's typically a group of beautiful, multicultural friends at a pool party in July having the best time. There's a sexy male love interest with a six pack. Do you want to be that girl?

Heather McMahon (17:48)

I sure do.

Vivian Tu (17:50)

Or do you actually just want that Hard seltzer?

Heather McMahon (17:52)

Right.

Vivian Tu (17:52)

So it's like, you know what I mean? Like, are you trying to buy a feeling or are you trying to buy a thing? Because you have to remember you're buying a thing. You don't get all of the warm glow associated with that. You have to create that yourself.

Heather McMahon (18:04)

So I am actively looking for a new car. And you say this in the book about like seeing that car commercial, the BMW commercial, the Porsche, it's sexy. I want that though. I'm buying into that.

Vivian Tu (18:14)

Yeah.

Heather McMahon (18:15)

So do I just go full throttle and get the Porsche 911, the two seater and it's just me and my dog and there's no room for my husband in the car. I'm like, I'm buying, I'm buying the ad right now because the ads are working on me.

Vivian Tu (18:25)

The ads are working. But I guess my question for you is this. What's the plan with that car? Are you someone who likes to drive a new car every couple years? Are you someone who is going to drive this car into the ground? How are you planning on paying for it?

Heather McMahon (18:38)

I'll tell you what, I got bamboozled on the last car, all right?

Vivian Tu (18:41)

I don't have real financial information. Can you tell me what the last car was?

Heather McMahon (18:44)

So it's an Audi Q5.

Vivian Tu (18:45)

I got the hyper.

Heather McMahon (18:46)

Cause I'm like, look at me trying to be a healthy green girly. Yeah. So I get this damn car. I lease it through my business. I think this is fantastic. I can lease it. I can write it off. You know, we love a write off. Then I'm about to turn the car in for a new fresh car. Cause I did the lease. I had never leased before. I'd only bought cars. My husband sideswipes it in our garage. So then I had to buy the car because I couldn't return the lease because it was like $6,000 worth of damage. Now I have this Car. So I take it to my mechanic, and he goes, hey, you need to unload this car as soon as you can, because these hybrid engines, he's like, if this engine goes out, you're fucked. You can't run it on gas. Even though it's a hybrid, like, it's gonna be $10,000. So not that I'm saying don't buy hybrids, but my mechanic, who is the real deal, was like, you. These cars, nobody has any idea when they're buying these hybrid cars, how expensive they're gonna be to maintain. He's like, and especially if you bought it for. You had it for a lease, and then you ended up buying it. So now I'm looking in just a full gas guzzler.

Vivian Tu (19:36)

Yeah.

Heather McMahon (19:37)

But I don't put that many miles on a car.

Vivian Tu (19:39)

Yeah.

Heather McMahon (19:40)

So for me, if I can do it through my business. You know what I mean, and ride

Vivian Tu (19:43)

it all well, then certainly. Well, here's the thing. I don't know my cars that well, but a 911, that's like a coupe or like a sedan, right?

Heather McMahon (19:50)

That's a little. That's a little hot.

Vivian Tu (19:52)

No, baby. Yeah, baby. No. You need a car over 6,000 pounds of curb weight.

Heather McMahon (19:56)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (19:56)

Because then you can write it off as, like, a farm equipment.

Heather McMahon (19:58)

Oh, yes. It needs to be as heavy as John Deere. Okay, got it.

Vivian Tu (20:04)

That's why everybody drives a G wagon. It's not because they handle well. They handle like a tractor. My husband drove one for us when we were, you know, summer. We were out for the summer one weekend in the Hamptons.

Heather McMahon (20:13)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (20:14)

That thing barely turns.

Heather McMahon (20:15)

Oh, yeah.

Vivian Tu (20:16)

And if.

Heather McMahon (20:16)

But if you're going down the highway more than 40 miles an hour and somebody sneezes wrong in the car, that thing's flipping.

Vivian Tu (20:22)

Yeah. But if it's over £6,000 of curb weight, there are actually ways that you can basically accelerate depreciation and capture all of that a little bit sooner. And it's just helpful, especially since you own your business.

Heather McMahon (20:36)

But do you have to buy the car in order to do that little tax loophole?

Vivian Tu (20:40)

To the best of my understanding, you do.

Heather McMahon (20:41)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (20:42)

Because the lease, you would just write off standard, and it wouldn't be the entire value. For someone like you who's a high earner, it could be interesting to look into. But, you know, listen, the tax laws change every couple years, so I would say definitely talk to an actual accountant.

Heather McMahon (20:56)

Yes. Allegedly.

Vivian Tu (20:57)

Yes.

Heather McMahon (20:57)

We're just saying. We're like, allegedly.

Vivian Tu (20:59)

Allegedly.

Heather McMahon (20:59)

Talk to your medical professional.

Vivian Tu (21:01)

Yes.

Heather McMahon (21:02)

Okay, so to answer the Question, though, what to tell yourself instead of buying something. Impulsively, the answer was, what are.

Vivian Tu (21:09)

What are you trying to buy? Is it trying to buy the thing or the feeling?

Heather McMahon (21:11)

Is it the thing or the feeling? And the feeling is, I want to feel youthful, I want to feel fun. I want to feel like she's got no cares in the world, but I probably have to have a child in a year, so what am I doing?

Vivian Tu (21:22)

Also, another one is the person who is selling it to you. Where do their incentives lie? Because let me tell you, if I

Heather McMahon (21:30)

get Shake Me Down.

Vivian Tu (21:31)

Yeah. Literally, if I see one more influencer talking about how much they love their Stanley. Like, don't get me wrong, I have a Stanley. Stanley. I was gifted one for a brand event I went to.

Heather McMahon (21:40)

Right.

Vivian Tu (21:41)

It's amazing. It keeps the water very cold.

Heather McMahon (21:43)

Right.

Vivian Tu (21:43)

But it's not that much better than a regular thermos.

Heather McMahon (21:48)

Right.

Vivian Tu (21:48)

It's pretty good, you know, but it's not that good.

Heather McMahon (21:50)

I miss a Nalgene. Were you a Nalgene girl?

Vivian Tu (21:52)

No. Because that smelled like mold. After three. Six.

Heather McMahon (21:54)

It did.

Vivian Tu (21:55)

It's disgusting.

Heather McMahon (21:55)

It's definitely why I have upper respiratory issues. I've had, like, rsv.

Vivian Tu (21:58)

There's. There's, like, mold in there.

Heather McMahon (22:00)

Yeah. I don't even have to vape. My lungs look like a vapor. So it's just because I had one of those crusty Nalgenes with my sorority logo on.

Vivian Tu (22:07)

Yeah. Nice.

Heather McMahon (22:08)

Now, Claire's asked how much is really needed to retire comfortably. And I feel like that's a really.

Vivian Tu (22:13)

That is a loaded question. I mean, Claire, what's comfortable. Yeah.

Heather McMahon (22:17)

What's coming up? Where do you live? Are you in Manhattan? Are you in Boise? Idaho?

Vivian Tu (22:21)

Right.

Heather McMahon (22:21)

Like, where are you?

Vivian Tu (22:22)

Boise is expensive now, too. Are we talking, like, you know, very middle of nowhere or what?

Heather McMahon (22:26)

You know, and I. And people always say they're like, oh, you live in Atlanta. Like, the cost of living. Yes, the cost of living is. Is cheaper than trying to buy a home in New York. But it's still all fucking outrageous.

Vivian Tu (22:35)

Yes.

Heather McMahon (22:36)

Everything's outrageous.

Vivian Tu (22:37)

Okay, so this is what I ask people to do to determine how much money they need to, like, live their happiest life.

Heather McMahon (22:43)

Right.

Vivian Tu (22:43)

We're gonna calculate our fuck you number. Okay. Okay. So you imagine your perfect year.

Heather McMahon (22:49)

All right, hold on. I'm visualizing.

Vivian Tu (22:50)

Yeah. You get to live where you want to live, in the house that you want. You get to go on as much travel as you want. You may or may not, depending on who you are, be supporting family. So parents, a Pet. If you have kids, if that's a thing that you do.

Heather McMahon (23:04)

Everybody.

Vivian Tu (23:04)

Yeah, everybody. You know, just the whole kitten caboodle.

Heather McMahon (23:07)

Yep.

Vivian Tu (23:08)

And then also, if there are certain things that you need to be allocating dollars for. So say if you are planning on having two homes or a vacation home, or if you want to, you know, make sure that you are able to give a certain amount of money to charity. Think about what your perfect year costs.

Heather McMahon (23:22)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (23:23)

One year.

Heather McMahon (23:25)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (23:25)

Heather's like, damn, this number's high.

Heather McMahon (23:27)

Yeah, I'm. I gotta invest in Amazon. I have to have invented Amazon. Continue.

Vivian Tu (23:32)

Yes.

Heather McMahon (23:33)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (23:33)

Okay.

Heather McMahon (23:34)

Am I saying this number out loud?

Vivian Tu (23:35)

You don't have to. You can if you would like to.

Heather McMahon (23:37)

No, I mean, a perfect. The most amazing thing in the world is I would have a villa in Tuscany.

Vivian Tu (23:42)

Right?

Heather McMahon (23:42)

Right. And I'd have my home in Atlanta, and everybody I know would have a home and everyone would be happy and no one would ever have a sadness in their heart.

Vivian Tu (23:49)

Correct.

Heather McMahon (23:49)

So I need, like, $400 billion.

Vivian Tu (23:51)

Yeah. Okay. Fair. Okay. But what you do with this number that you've calculated for your perfect year is you divide it by 0.04. And I love that. My high school math teacher told me that I wasn't going to have a calculator in my pocket at all times. I do. Okay, so you have it on your phone so you can do this math. You take that number for your perfect year divided by 0.04.

Heather McMahon (24:12)

Yes, ma'.

Vivian Tu (24:12)

Am.

Heather McMahon (24:12)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (24:13)

That is representative of 4%.

Heather McMahon (24:15)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (24:15)

That is a super conservative return. Right now you can get 4% from a high yield savings account that is risk free. Okay. So more likely you'll probably get an 8% return or 10% return, depending on what you're invested in. The stock market has, on average returned 8 to 10% every single year. This number that you've now calculated after dividing by 0.04 is the total dollar value that you would need to have invested.

Heather McMahon (24:43)

Invested.

Vivian Tu (24:43)

Invested.

Heather McMahon (24:44)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (24:44)

Earning. You.

Heather McMahon (24:45)

Not liquid, not sitting in.

Vivian Tu (24:47)

Not sitting in a checking account. Invested.

Heather McMahon (24:49)

Okay?

Vivian Tu (24:50)

That is how much you want to have invested, returning at least 4% a year to be able to kick over your desk and tell fuck you to your boss.

Heather McMahon (24:57)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (24:58)

Because all of your lifestyle would be fully funded by your investments.

Heather McMahon (25:02)

Got it.

Vivian Tu (25:03)

I am someone who very much is of the camp that, like, that is a very far distance for me. I'm someone who's very comfortable with my investments, funding part of my lifestyle.

Heather McMahon (25:14)

Right.

Vivian Tu (25:15)

And then continuing to work. You know, I'm 31. Like, I don't want to retire tomorrow. I don't even know what I would do with myself. But it gives me a goal to work towards of. Like, when I am in my old age, it would be nice to have at least this number invested. And that way I don't really have to worry about money. I can just make decisions based on what I, you know, want to do.

Heather McMahon (25:34)

See, this is it. This is why you're good at what you do. Because I understood that. Okay, see, Vinny, I have a theater degree and I understood what you just said. And I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna do the calculations and put it in the spreadsheet.

Vivian Tu (25:46)

Yeah.

Heather McMahon (25:47)

God, I love you. I knew I loved you. This, I love you. That makes sense. All right, well then there you go, Claire, your thing, it's answered. So figure out, Claire, do you want a house in Tuscany or you want a farm? But multiply it by.004.

Vivian Tu (26:00)

No, divide. Divide by 0.040. Oh, my God. We got a little dyslexia in here. We got the. We got the sign wrong and the number wrong.

Heather McMahon (26:09)

You know, I have a thing, it's. I have dyslexia with numbers. I believe it, actually.

Vivian Tu (26:14)

But you know what? We have it on tape now, so we can just listen to it back.

Heather McMahon (26:19)

Vivian just said, I believe it.

Vivian Tu (26:21)

I believe that actually, yeah.

Heather McMahon (26:22)

This is why I was good at statistics, but I was not good at any other form of mathematics. Okay, well, somebody asked, and I love this, how do we bring the billionaires to their needs? And that's that. We could. We can get to that one next. But okay, how. God, these are getting dark.

Vivian Tu (26:37)

I mean, I can answer the billionaire question.

Heather McMahon (26:39)

Why aren't they taxed?

Vivian Tu (26:41)

Listen. Okay, so and if I'm going to

Heather McMahon (26:43)

be a billionaire and I have to divide it by 0.004. Right.

Vivian Tu (26:48)

Only 10 after the decimal point. Yeah.

Heather McMahon (26:50)

So why, why don't the billionaires pay their fair share of tax?

Vivian Tu (26:53)

Because of the way that our legislation has been structured, they are paying a high dollar value in taxes.

Heather McMahon (27:01)

Okay?

Vivian Tu (27:02)

And at first the number is eye watering. But if you actually look at, look at their effective tax rate, it's not the same level as if you were a high powered attorney who was earning a W2 income. So if you are. Actually, this is the worst part. If you are lower rich or upper poor.

Heather McMahon (27:22)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (27:22)

Like if you are someone who works for their money. So say you are a doctor, you are a lawyer, you are an engineer. You make somewhere between 250 to 750, $750,000 a year. Those are the people who are just paying out the nose in taxes. Right. The thing about billionaires is that they don't make their money from income, though. They make their money through ownership. And ownership is much harder to tax. Especially we have examples of Peter Thiel putting all of his PayPal stock into a Roth IRA, back when PayPal was worth nothing but a dream and a handshake. And then all of that appreciating and him basically not having to pay taxes on it.

Heather McMahon (28:04)

He's terrifying.

Vivian Tu (28:05)

Terrifying.

Heather McMahon (28:05)

He's a lizard. When people are like, you know, some of the people in the Illuminati are reptilian. I'm like, that guy. Teal.

Vivian Tu (28:11)

That guy. But also, it's just the fact that, frankly, they have had the dollars to then get into the ears of politicians that set the laws. And we've been trying to trickle down economics for, I don't even too long, and it has never worked. Turns out the people who are exploitative enough to make a billion dollars don't actually like passing on savings to consumers, don't like passing on extra earnings to their employees. They just hoard it.

Heather McMahon (28:40)

Right.

Vivian Tu (28:41)

And I find that to be a such a huge problem, because when someone who is a big baller, like, we'll say like a rapper or a ball player, they make a ton of money, right? From their contracts, from their record deals, whatever. They'll go out to the club. And you've literally seen photos of drake.

Heather McMahon (28:58)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (28:58)

Spending $200,000 in a night, tipping the dancers, tipping the cocktail waitress, even slipping security a couple, you know, hundreds, whatever. He's actually spending his money. It is going back into circulation.

Heather McMahon (29:10)

Right?

Vivian Tu (29:12)

But you don't see Bill Gates doing that.

Heather McMahon (29:15)

Right?

Vivian Tu (29:15)

You don't see Elon Musk doing that. Elon Musk loves to be like, I live in this tiny house. No, if you have a billion dollars, you need to be living in a big house. You need to have a big staff. You need to be paying everybody. But the money is not recirculating. It's not recirculating, and it's completely unhealthy. And I'm so sorry, but if we have learned anything from the recent headlines, all y' all have is money. Y' all are freaks.

Heather McMahon (29:39)

Freaks. No freaks. No friends.

Vivian Tu (29:41)

No friends. I'm so sorry. If I had a billion dollars, every single baddie that I wanted would be on my arm. I would not have to go to a secret island to. To diddle kids, period. That's weird.

Heather McMahon (29:52)

Spring has sprung. And there is nothing better than doing a spring cleaning where you can get back into a at home routine you love and elevate your space. With Wayfair, I'm talking from bedding and mattresses to storage solutions for every room in the house. Wayfair is your one stop shop. You can refresh your living room. You can get gorgeous accent pillows, mirrors, faux plants for way Way Less. This is why I love Wayfair. It's truly a one stop shop. You can get everything that you could possibly imagine that your home would need this season at Wayfair. I mean they have bedding, mattresses, towels. They have home decor for like an all year round refresh. And I love that they have storage for every space. Storing my outdoor furniture was one of the biggest pains in the asses in the world. And I got all of my covers and storage from Wayfair. Just makes everything last another season. Stay put together, stay organized and out of the elements. I also love doing an office refresh. I have an office in the basement. I went to Wayfair, I got a standing desk, I got a new rug and I just judged it up so that I actually wanted to work in there. Here's what I also love. Wayfair's huge selection of home decor items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. And I was really surprised on how many organizational tools they had on the website. And actually the mirrors are incredible. I got so many good mirrors from Wayfair. Get organized, refresh and back on track this new year. For Way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. Again, you're gonna love it. Wayfair.com Every style, every home. We all know that Quints is all about elevated essentials that feel effortless. Designed for layering and mixing, each piece helps build a timeless wardrobe made to last with versatile silhouettes and thoughtful details. They're the kind of styles you will wear again and again. Let me tell you something, right now I am heading on a very well deserved long trip with my husband to Asia. And I packed so many fabulous Quint's essentials. Like some of their washable silk, the Mongolian cashmere sweaters, some of the linen. Like I truly have an entire suitcase packed with Quint's essentials. Because I want to know that I've got everything I need. 100% organic cotton sweaters, premium denim made with Stretch for all day. Comfort luxe cotton cashmere blends. Perfect for changing seasons. Everything you need in a wardrobe that actually lasts. And Quince works directly with safe ethical factories and cuts out middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup, just high quality clothing. And Quince uses the highest quality material, like 100% European linen and organic cotton. And everything is built to hold up season after season. They're stitching the fit. The fabrics are pieces you will reach for over and over again. You can refresh your wardrobe right now with quint. Go to quince.com absolutely for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com absolutely. To get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com absolutely. Also the real hard turn. But I was walking here today and I'm like, what is gonna. I feel like nothing is gonna happen with the Epstein files. Are we just completely desensitized? Are we numb to this? I feel like the files are released. And I was. I mean, I spent half my night just, like, combing through this shit, of course. And I'm like, I feel like nothing's gonna happen to these people. And that's terrifying. Why is that such a. Why do we. Why are we so numb to this?

Vivian Tu (33:17)

I mean, I feel like we've just been seeing a barrage of, like, deeply traumatic headlines. We're seeing little boys in bunny hats being ripped away from their. From his parents. Right. We're seeing people murdered in the street.

Heather McMahon (33:31)

Right.

Vivian Tu (33:31)

Like, it's really hard to, like, finally say, this is the line. And it feels like there are.

Heather McMahon (33:39)

The line keeps moving.

Vivian Tu (33:40)

The line keeps moving. And that's the problem. It's like they're drawing a line in the sand, and then the water comes, washes away, and they draw another line, and they draw another line. And now we've already moved so far from what, like, reality is. I remember when President Barack Obama was in office, he wore a tan suit one time, and the headlines were like, this unprofessional, dirty mother. Like, it was like, crazy.

Heather McMahon (34:00)

Yes.

Vivian Tu (34:00)

And now we have a president who's a convicted felon, and that doesn't kill other people.

Heather McMahon (34:06)

Yeah. It doesn't seem to bother a soul. Truly. I was talking about that with my husband this morning at breakfast. Like you said, where does. The line just keeps moving. No one can catch up to it. We are completely desensitized to it. I feel nothing. I mean, you know, I was reading these headlines, and you're just. And you know that no matter what you speak on today, tomorrow's gonna be 10 times worse. So it's almost like you can't even catch your breath trying to wrap your head around any of this.

Vivian Tu (34:30)

Yeah, sorry. I took us on a detour.

Heather McMahon (34:32)

No, no, no. This leads us into a good question. How concerned do we need to be about the dollar declining? Because since our entire country's on fire, how concerned do we need to be investing in outside currencies? Oh, yes.

Vivian Tu (34:42)

Well, not necessarily. I think there are some tricky things of. Like having a bunch of outside currencies. However, what I do highly encourage people to do is to diversify their portfolios.

Heather McMahon (34:54)

Amen.

Vivian Tu (34:54)

So something simple, right? Vanguard actually has a fund, and it's called vxus.

Heather McMahon (35:01)

Vxus.

Vivian Tu (35:02)

It's exactly what it sounds like. X. US Excluding the US all right? And it is their investments into international markets. So things like in Europe, in Asia, in, you know, Australia, Latin America, Africa, they go into all these different markets. And the power is, I've held this. And I. When I told my audience, I was like, I am going to be personally buying this. I then saw it rally over the past year, it was up over 30%.

Heather McMahon (35:31)

Wow.

Vivian Tu (35:31)

And I'm not saying hindsight. You know, hindsight's 20 20. I can look like a genius now. I didn't know it then, but. But my concern is it does feel like there has been a little bit of a destabilization in terms of how other countries view us. We are currently the currency of choice. We are the almighty dollar. But other nations like Brazil, Russia, India, China. Brics. Brics?

Heather McMahon (35:55)

Bricks, baby.

Vivian Tu (35:56)

You know what BRICS is? I love that.

Heather McMahon (35:58)

Trust me. I get on the dark side of the web, and I know about the brics.

Vivian Tu (36:01)

You are on bricks.

Heather McMahon (36:02)

I'm on bricks, yeah.

Vivian Tu (36:03)

Okay. So all of these other nations are vying for our seat, and what would happen if they started to work together, Right? Like, is that not alarming to other people? I don't. Again, not to sound like a conspiracy theorist. I think some of the things that we are doing to make industrialization and bring manufacturing back to this country are going to be incredibly costly. Is likely going to weaken our currency value. Things that are happening right now are not going to exist in a vacuum. We are going to have less buying power. And we've noticed it already. I've noticed it when I go on vacation. And.

Heather McMahon (36:40)

Yeah, I was just in St. Bart.

Vivian Tu (36:41)

I don't.

Heather McMahon (36:41)

Felt like the poorest person there.

Vivian Tu (36:43)

Yeah.

Heather McMahon (36:43)

That was for just a multitude of reasons. In Saint bars, you hang out around a bunch of rich Europeans and you're like, oh, we're trash.

Vivian Tu (36:49)

Yeah. Not only do we have no class, we have no money.

Heather McMahon (36:52)

We literally. We have no food, we have no jobs. Our pets. Heads are falling off.

Vivian Tu (36:56)

Yeah.

Heather McMahon (36:56)

You sit at a table next to a bunch of rich French people in St. Bart's and you're like, okay, I gotta get my shit together.

Vivian Tu (37:01)

Yeah.

Heather McMahon (37:01)

Okay. Wow. Very interesting.

Vivian Tu (37:04)

Yeah.

Heather McMahon (37:04)

And so the. It was. You called it Vanguard X Us.

Vivian Tu (37:08)

So I like Vanguard because the tickers are relatively easy to remember.

Heather McMahon (37:12)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (37:13)

If you are trying to invest in the S&P 500, V is an easy option. If you want the total stock market, VTI is an easy option. But if you want to go international, vxus, is it vxus?

Heather McMahon (37:23)

We can remember this. Vxus. Okay. Somebody said, I need an add action list of steps on how to pick a good finance person to help me understand my 401k and make investments so I don't work until I die.

Vivian Tu (37:36)

Okay, baby. I have some thoughts.

Heather McMahon (37:40)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (37:40)

I think that most people don't need a financial advisor because your financial picture is not complicated enough to need one.

Heather McMahon (37:48)

Right.

Vivian Tu (37:49)

Again, we go back to that example of that lawyer who makes $650,000 a year. They actually have a very simple financial picture. They make a lot of money, but they get income from one way. It is through a W2 job. It gets issued from their employer once a year. They get that form for their taxes. Their financial picture is very simple. Just because you have a lot of money or you make a lot of money doesn't mean you have a complicated financial picture. You actually are someone who has a very complicated financial picture because you make money through digital brand deals, you make money through podcast ads, you make money touring. You probably made money selling that special to Netflix. Yeah, you do that.

Heather McMahon (38:26)

I get taxed in every single state

Vivian Tu (38:28)

that you go to.

Heather McMahon (38:28)

So I have to. I have a very complicated accounting system because I basically, my accountant is. Does the Braves.

Vivian Tu (38:34)

Yes.

Heather McMahon (38:34)

He's like, I deal with touring athletes. Anybody who goes and gets paid in a bunch of different states, it's a shit show nightmare.

Vivian Tu (38:39)

Yeah, but you are someone who I would actually say having a financial advisor could be helpful for.

Heather McMahon (38:45)

Right.

Vivian Tu (38:45)

But for most people and this person who's asking, I think you would likely be better off. And it sounds like they just want someone to help pick investments for their 401k.

Heather McMahon (38:53)

Right.

Vivian Tu (38:53)

Like you would be better off getting a robo advisor and if you already have a provider through your work for your 401k, even just looking through what your robo advisor recommends for an individual brokerage account for you would give you an idea of what you should be investing in that 401k. Similarly, because more often than not in a 401k, you don't even have that many options. You got like maybe two dozen options. A bunch of them are index funds. So again, they're going to track major indices. They're going to be a bunch of target date retirement funds because these are for retirement. Easiest thing to do. You're going to see like target date retirement fund 20, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, all the way to probably 75 at this point. You just pick the year closest to when you turn 65. Okay, easy enough, right? That will already give you a great diversified portfolio so that your money isn't just sitting in cash in your 401k. I think people psych themselves out because we have been told our entire lives that especially for women, we are shopaholics. We're bad with money. We are. We need a man in our life, whether it be our father, son or husband to come in and save us.

Heather McMahon (40:01)

Right?

Vivian Tu (40:02)

But we don't. Let me tell you, don't. We don't. Here are the actual stats. Women, actually single women own more homes than single men in all 50 states, period. We have less debt across every single category except for student loans because we're getting more educated, period. And Fidelity actually went through a bunch of portfolios and found that women's portfolios outperform men's because men are so focused on trying to day trade or swing trade, they actually end up losing money. Whereas women, because we're more risk averse, more often are buy and hold investors and are investing for the long haul and making money.

Heather McMahon (40:35)

Hell yeah.

Vivian Tu (40:36)

That's right.

Heather McMahon (40:37)

I love to hear that. I just got a little tickle. I got a little tickle with that. I love that.

Vivian Tu (40:41)

Heather's nipples just got off.

Heather McMahon (40:42)

Yeah, they've been rock hard since we got here. Because I'm obsessed with Vivian and I follow all of you. I really, I really do just adore you because I think I have learned so much and I, you know, you're saying like, yeah, we all think we need to ask. I mean, let's just simplify it. We all think we need to ask a husband, a brother, a boyfriend, a dad, like, am I making the right decision? And my husband's obviously very good at keeping our head on straight. Like, I know how to make money. I don't know why, but making money is a superpower. But I have had to teach myself. And of course, I can ask my husband anything, and he explains things very well to me. But you do get a little intimidated. You're like, why can't I figure this out myself? And I think that you have put the power back in. And obviously your books and your social media content, everything that you do is for everyone. It's not just for women. But I just find you insanely refreshing. And I'm able to understand things and break down things and feel like, man, you're really answering. And no question to you is stupid. You're like, no, let's just figure it out.

Vivian Tu (41:35)

Yeah. But also, you know what it is? The way I see it is my content is for smart people who are not smart with money.

Heather McMahon (41:40)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (41:41)

Because I don't assume you're an idiot.

Heather McMahon (41:43)

Right.

Vivian Tu (41:44)

I assume that you are someone who understands whatever you do for work as an expert, you have expertise in that space. And the reason that's the case is because your rich BFF wasn't made for other people. It was made for my girlfriends.

Heather McMahon (41:55)

Right.

Vivian Tu (41:55)

And I went to school with girls that are all smarter than me. They're surgeons now they're engineers, now they're lawyers. They're all smarter than me. But when I say the word 401K, I see the eyes just start to glaze, and I'm like, no, no, no, no. Come back, come back. Wake up, girls. Girlies, girlies, stay with me. Stay with me. Yeah, but like, I'm just like, stay with me. Like, how is it possible that, like, my best friend literally transplanted a burn victim's face and saved their life? And I'm like, that didn't scare you, Right. But you're terrified because I mentioned a 401k. Like, I need you to just. I need we to love.

Heather McMahon (42:26)

We need a little. Did the movie Face Off.

Vivian Tu (42:29)

Yeah.

Heather McMahon (42:29)

And save someone's life. And you can't figure out how to,

Vivian Tu (42:32)

like, just click a couple buttons like, it's not that deep. And so I think that, like, when you explain something to somebody, like a friend, they're more likely to listen. Because I know so many people DM me. And they're like, oh, my dad works in finance, but you explained it better than him. And I'm like, I don't think I explained it better. I used fewer buzzwords.

Heather McMahon (42:49)

Right.

Vivian Tu (42:49)

And I gave you an analogy that you regularly understand, and you were smart enough to get it.

Heather McMahon (42:53)

And how many times did people ask, dad, can you explain this? I remember, like, my first summer job and I was like, dad, can you explain to me what a W2 is? And it was just like the. He's like, God damn it, Heather, how do we not know what that is? I'm like, well, nobody ever teaches you any of this. And my dad was in the credit biz and the mortgage biz for a long time. And so I understood that, like, I was the queen of, like, don't live outside your means. If you can't pay it off, you can't afford it.

Vivian Tu (43:15)

Yeah.

Heather McMahon (43:16)

And now I am having to lear the other side of it, like, what is good debt? To me, debt was just always a negative. And now I'm also learning, like, with through investments, like, what is good debt? What is bad debt? And that is so scary. And my financial advisor, like, heather, you invest so conservatively. But again, it's because I. I'm so scared. You're scared?

Vivian Tu (43:34)

I'm.

Heather McMahon (43:34)

I'm scared, y'. All. Yeah, I'm scared.

Vivian Tu (43:37)

You know what? It's crazy because debt is so demonized. Like it's some four letter word. I mean, it is a four letter word, but like a swear word. But you know what it is? When poor people borrow money or people who don't have a lot of money borrow money, we call it debt. So it's like a single mom at the grocery store putting food that she can't afford on a credit card. We demonize her. We call her irresponsible, a bad parent. When rich people borrow money, we call it leverage. And we put them on the covers of magazines.

Heather McMahon (44:03)

God damn.

Vivian Tu (44:03)

And we call them visionaries.

Heather McMahon (44:04)

I need a cigarette after that.

Vivian Tu (44:06)

Literally. And it's so crazy because it's the same thing. I just think that the rest of us need a better publicist because rich people's publicist is doing exactly what they need to be doing. Right? And so it's not the actual thing that's happening, it's how we speak to ourselves and how we speak to others about money that needs to change.

Heather McMahon (44:25)

God, this is so refreshing. This is a really. I am really. I just know that the response to this episode is so many girlies and boys and boys and anybody listening to this are going to say, okay, wow, this is a really refreshing conversation. Can I leave you with one last question? That's probably the most loaded question of all, which I'm sure you must get some of these investment questions and just say, like, I'm sure at some point you're like, guys, read the book. Read the book. But should we buy crypto even if it's only a tiny, tiny little fraction? What are your thoughts on crypto?

Vivian Tu (44:54)

I think crypto can be a perfectly healthy part of your portfolio.

Heather McMahon (44:58)

Part of it, because we're diversifying.

Vivian Tu (44:59)

Part of it.

Heather McMahon (45:00)

Yep.

Vivian Tu (45:01)

But I would not have it be the majority of your portfolio. And, and for me, I think about crypto like sprinkles on a Sunday. I've never seen anybody take out a bowl and just throw some sprinkles in and eat that. Right?

Heather McMahon (45:13)

Yeah. Raw dog and sprinkles is diabolical.

Vivian Tu (45:16)

Diabolical. Okay, we need the vanilla ice cream, the chocolate ice cream, and the strawberry ice cream. I need you to put on the whipped cream, the caramel sauce, and then we're throwing sprinkles on that at the end. Okay. Think about crypto like the sprinkles. I don't want to hear you talk about crypto until you have fully maxed out every single tax advantaged retirement account you have access to. Because guess what? A tax benny is a tax benny. You deserve to be getting those. So get those first.

Heather McMahon (45:45)

Get those first.

Vivian Tu (45:46)

Max out those accounts. Invest those dollars. You need to make sure that your money is actually being invested. You can't just open the 401K. You can't just open the Roth IRA. You actually have to put cash in. And then with that cash, you have to buy investment.

Heather McMahon (45:58)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (45:59)

Those investments should span across equities as well as potentially bonds. If you are closer to retirement and need to do a little bit of wealth preservation versus growth.

Heather McMahon (46:09)

Got it.

Vivian Tu (46:10)

So the whole mix and match here is the closer you are to retirement, the more of your money should not be for wealth growth, it should be for wealth preservation. You're protecting that money. So bonds are a little bit safer, but they're a little bit lower returning. Whereas if you're 21 and have one working brain cell like I did, you can have your entire portfolio in equities. That's fine. That's, you know, you'll be fine. You're so far away from retirement. Then I want to consider. Have people consider other investments. So maybe that's real estate. Even if you don't want to go and get a physical plot on this earth.

Heather McMahon (46:44)

Right.

Vivian Tu (46:44)

What about real estate investment trusts where you can kind of buy into a strip of malls or a strip of casinos or a strip of whatever. Like, like is something having some sort of tangible thing on earth important to you?

Heather McMahon (46:56)

Yeah. You don't have to Be a landlord? No, to make money in real estate. And that's what I did. As soon as I started making any money on the road, I started buying and investing in those real estate trusts and that's how, you know, I was able to get a house.

Vivian Tu (47:08)

Exactly. And then you do all of those things, you get all of those places and then you're like, okay, I want crypto to be up to 5% of my portfolio. Go for it. I'm not going to stop you. You can also add in that category with crypto, things like collectibles. Things like art. Yeah, things, whatever. But here's my thought, okay? For collectibles and art and like wine, all that stuff, it's only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. And for crypto, it's only worth its utility. So it's very different to buy something like a bitcoin Ethereum or a Solana versus ask coin 420. Okay, yeah. That does not have any utility. Whereas you can actually go and take a. Take bitcoin and use it and buy a car now.

Heather McMahon (47:55)

Right.

Vivian Tu (47:55)

And go buy a Rolex.

Heather McMahon (47:56)

Okay.

Vivian Tu (47:57)

If you are actually able to utilize these coins have utility, then they might be worth something. But askoin420 does not have any value. Don't buy meme coins. Don't buy shit you've never heard of. Don't. If you can't explain it to a fifth grader, you don't understand.

Heather McMahon (48:11)

You don't need to have it.

Vivian Tu (48:12)

You don't need to have it.

Heather McMahon (48:13)

But like think about it and also remember your password.

Vivian Tu (48:16)

Exactly.

Heather McMahon (48:17)

Oh my God. That is my one thing about bitcoin. We have a little bit of bitcoin, but I told my husband, I said, you need to know the passwords. I trust you. They're in a. These people. Do you hear about that guy?

Vivian Tu (48:25)

Yeah. Who like $4 billion.

Heather McMahon (48:28)

$4 billion of Bitcoin. And he couldn't. And he threw away the laptop with the password, the encrypted password on. I'm like.

Vivian Tu (48:34)

And did you see that? He went to a trash dump and went through all of the trash and he still couldn't find it.

Heather McMahon (48:38)

He was going through trash for like years. Yeah, see, that's why bitcoin I get a little too anxious about because I'm like, I gotta remember numbers and I'm dyslexic with the numbers. It's too much. I feel like a lot of the way you describe things when it comes to investing and just money in general, and correct me if I'm wrong. But I feel like a lot of people think, oh, it's too late. Let's say, for example, I like when I started doing my egg freezing. I wish I would have done it in my early 20s. I wish somebody would have educated me. I wish my ob GYN would have said, hey, Heather, you should have made embryos or even just frozen your eggs in your early 20s. But now I'm closer to 40 and we're doing it right. So I feel like the same way with financing, just finance in general, investing and understanding. You should start when you're young, but it's okay to do it now. Like it just start when you can.

Vivian Tu (49:22)

I think it is never too late and never too early to start going on your financial journey. People ask me all the time if they're 40 or 50 or maybe even 60 and they're like, viv, is it too late for me?

Heather McMahon (49:33)

Right?

Vivian Tu (49:33)

And I say no. But I'm not going to sugarcoat. It would have been a lot easier had you started in your 20s, right? You would have had to put a lot less money away. But in your 40s and 50s and 60s, you're likely earning more than you probably were in your 20s. So you still have time to catch up. You still have literal catch up contributions, which is after you turn 50 and as you get closer to retirement, there are years where you're gonna be able to put in more dollars than the average person. Okay, catch up contributions. But you also have to understand how compound interest works. Having a lot of money does not make you more money, right? Having a lot of time makes you that money. So if you are able to, and you're listening to this and you're in your 20s or your 30s, you are so young. Put something away now. Start early, start on a consistent basis. Because the sooner you start, the longer your money has to work on your behalf. And you work so hard for your money, your money should be working just as hard for you, period.

Heather McMahon (50:26)

That's all you need to hear. Work smarter, not harder. With Vivian too. Congratulations on the new book. Thank you. You can buy the book everywhere, correct?

Vivian Tu (50:33)

Yes. Well endowed, you can buy it everywhere. Books are sold, ebook, audiobook, regular book, all of it.

Heather McMahon (50:39)

I'm halfway through the book. It's absolutely phenomenal. I'm absolutely obsessed with you, Vivian. And where can everybody find you on social media? And to follow along for more digestible

Vivian Tu (50:46)

financial education, you can find me across all social media as your rich bff.

Heather McMahon (50:51)

Thanks for coming, you guys. We'll see you on the next episode of the Absolutely Not Podcast. As always, you can call into the hotline 800-213-7503 or always send me a note on threads. I can't wait to bring you more education because you know what we're doing. We're getting smarter in 2026. See you on the next episode. Ciao Bella Rever Ditchy, thanks so much for listening to today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe, rate us and leave a review. And as always, follow me on Instagram at heatherkmcmahon.

Vivian Tu (51:18)

See you guys soon.

Heather McMahon (51:19)

I wanna flip the moon Hop from train to train I feel the vibration taking control of me Shines a light so bright it plays I like a symphony.