Episode #597: Marketing Woo Modalities In A CBT Area

Summary

Abundant Practice Podcast

Episode #597: Marketing Woo Modalities In A CBT Area
Release Date: November 27, 2024
Host: Allison Puryear
Guest: Jen

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Introduction

In Episode #597 of the Abundant Practice Podcast, host Allison Puryear engages in a deep and insightful conversation with Jen, a therapist navigating the transition from a community mental health role to private practice in Nova Scotia, Canada. This episode delves into the challenges and strategies involved in marketing non-traditional therapeutic modalities, such as Internal Family Systems (IFS) and Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), within areas predominantly focused on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).

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Defining Your Niche

Jen begins by outlining her passion for working with women seeking deeper psychological change. She describes her ideal clients as those dealing with issues like disordered eating, ADHD, workaholism, OCD, and anxiety, who are interested in transformative therapies beyond traditional CBT. Jen expresses her apprehension about presenting these "woo" modalities to potential clients and referral sources, fearing they might perceive them as unorthodox.

Notable Quote:
[07:05] Jen: "I specifically enjoy working with clients who are looking for that deeper change."

Allison encourages Jen by emphasizing that successful practices don't necessarily rely on traditional referrals, such as those from doctors. She reassures Jen that clients drawn to deeper therapeutic work are likely to resonate with her approach, mitigating the need to convince referral sources of its efficacy.

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Overcoming Perceptions of "Woo" Modalities

The conversation shifts to the perception of IFS and EMDR in Jen's region. Jen notes that while IFS is relatively new and gaining traction in urban areas like Toronto, the medical community still predominantly favors CBT. This creates a barrier for therapists like Jen who wish to incorporate these modalities into their practice.

Notable Quote:
[05:06] Jen: "It's quite well received. So that's kind of, I think it's sort of cutting edge here."

Allison counters Jen's concerns by sharing her experiences as a client benefiting from IFS and EMDR, highlighting their profound impact despite their unconventional nature. She emphasizes that therapists can attract clients who are already predisposed to seeking deeper therapeutic interventions, aligning their marketing efforts with the needs of their ideal clientele.

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Transitioning from Public Sector to Private Practice

Jen discusses her current role in community mental health and her plans to leave the public system to start a private practice with a colleague. She expresses anxiety over managing this transition, particularly balancing her commitments in Ontario with her new venture in Nova Scotia.

Notable Quote:
[09:24] Jen: "I'm pretty exhausted and not able to keep this much longer."

Allison advises ensuring the financial viability of transitioning by possibly contracting with the existing organization to cover supervisory duties. This approach would provide financial stability while allowing Jen to focus on building her private practice.

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Balancing Growth Mindset with Social Work Values

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around maintaining a balance between expanding a private practice and upholding social work values. Jen and her partner aim to offer services that are both financially sustainable and socially responsible.

Notable Quote:
[16:15] Allison: "I take it both micro and macro, social work wise."

Allison shares her strategy of maintaining a sliding scale to make services accessible, ensuring that financial growth contributes to broader social causes. This approach allows therapists to grow their practice without compromising their commitment to social work ethics.

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Marketing Strategies for Multi-Province Practices

Operating in different provinces presents unique marketing challenges. Jen highlights the need to adapt strategies for varied markets, emphasizing the importance of SEO and blogging to enhance online presence. She also considers leveraging platforms like Psychology Today, noting that while it may be more effective in certain regions, optimizing her profile can drive traffic to her website.

Notable Quote:
[17:15] Allison: "SEO and blogging go together so well."

Allison recommends focusing on SEO to ensure that blogging efforts effectively attract the right audience. Additionally, networking through virtual means, such as Zoom, is suggested to build connections across provinces, ensuring a cohesive marketing approach despite geographical distances.

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Business Partnership Considerations

As Jen and her colleague embark on their joint venture, they confront the complexities of business partnerships. Allison underscores the importance of having a solid "business divorce plan" to navigate potential future disagreements, advocating for clear agreements from the outset.

Notable Quote:
[19:14] Allison: "Always have your divorce plan set up in your business while you're setting it up at the front end."

Jen confirms that they are actively addressing these considerations by consulting with legal and financial professionals. Allison praises their proactive stance, highlighting that such measures can prevent complications and foster a healthy business relationship.

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Conclusion

Episode #597 offers a comprehensive exploration of the intricacies involved in marketing non-traditional therapeutic modalities within a CBT-centric environment. Through Jen's real-world experiences and Allison's expert guidance, listeners gain valuable insights into defining a niche, overcoming perceptual barriers, managing transitions, balancing ethical values with business growth, and strategically marketing across different regions. The episode underscores the importance of intentional planning and authentic engagement in building a successful, sustainable private practice.

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Notable Final Quote:
[21:04] Jen: "Will do. Yeah. And I hope everything continues to improve for you folks at home."

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For therapists looking to explore similar challenges, this episode serves as an invaluable resource, offering both practical strategies and emotional support to navigate the journey toward a fulfilling private practice.

Transcript

[Allison]

Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Allison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practicebuilding.com links all right onto the show try Therapy Notes, the number one rated electronic health record system available today with live telephone support seven days a week. It's clear why TherapyNotes is rated 4.9 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot and has a 5 star rating on Google. TherapyNotes makes billing, scheduling, note taking and telehealth incredibly easy. And now for all you prescribers out there, TherapyNotes is proudly introducing E Prescribe. If you're coming from another EHR, TherapyNotes makes the transition incredibly easy, importing your demographic data free of charge so you can get going right away. Find out what more than 100,000 mental health professionals already know and try TherapyNotes for two months absolutely free. Just go to therapynotes.com and enter promo code Abundant at checkout. Try it today with no strings attached and see why everyone is switching to Therapy Notes now featuring E Prescribe. You really wish grad school had covered how to fill a private practice. In grad school you had a professor you could ask questions, someone who could tell you what you were doing wrong and how to fix it. You had classmates working towards the same goal. Think of Party plus like that grad school class you wish you had. You get individual consultation about your specific practice with clear feedback and guidance. You get group calls with other people building their practices who have your back. We cover everything from marketing to mindset and you have access to everything in the Abundance Party. All the courses and trainings that have filled thousands of therapists practices. Thanks to the feedback, the support and the clear step by step, people in party get full faster. The majority of party members fill their practice in three months. Check out Party in the link in the show notes and join the interest list if you're ready to build what you've been dreaming of. Hey Jen, how you doing?

[Jen]

I'm great.

[Allison]

Yeah?

[Jen]

Yeah, I'm thinking lots about, you know, you and all the stuff that's been going on since the storms and everything. So happy.

[Allison]

Thank you. Yeah, it's been rough. It's nice to kind of have some normal back though, like just being at the office for a half day today is feeling good I bet.

[Jen]

Yeah, I was, I was wondering. I was like, it canceled. I'm not sure what's going to happen. Anyway, so here we are.

[Allison]

Well, what would be most helpful?

[Jen]

So I have a few notes here to try to focus myself. So a couple of things. So just to give you some information about background here, what's happening with me. So I currently work in community mental health. I live in Nova Scotia in Canada.

[Allison]

Awesome.

[Jen]

And so I work in the public system and I also work for a group private practice. I am in the process of leaving the public system and a colleague and I are starting a practice as well. Very nervous about the fact that hopefully the folks at my group practice don't see this before I talk to them about that. But anyway, my plan is to do both for a period of time on my own with them because that practice is actually in Ontario, so different province altogether. I know the hope would be eventually some of those clients are going to follow me. Fingers crossed. So the main areas I'd like to focus on really today are around defining niche, which I know is Mary, we do a lot of. And maybe just start there. I guess the other part is like getting my butt out of the door from the agency where I am too, and scarcity mindset stuff. So with regard to niche, I guess for me it's like I love working with women who, they may not necessarily call it trauma, but showing up, it's less about how it shows up for them, whether that be disordered eating patterns, you know, ADHD being its own piece of this puzzle, sometimes workaholic, you know, puro, ocd, anxiety, all of those. But I specifically enjoy working with clients who are looking for that deeper change. They're looking for things like ifs emdr, more somatic practice and get caught in my own head about feeling like that's too woo woo, and worrying that they're going to perceive it that way and that referral sources will perceive it that way.

[Allison]

Interesting.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Allison]

In your area, how. How is it perceived? How is EMDR and IFS perceived?

[Jen]

Yeah. So IFS is quite new here, I would say. There's very few people practicing, but it's starting to become more popular with my Ontario clientele because they're in Toronto, bigger city, more stuff happening. It's quite well received. So that's kind of, I think it's sort of cutting edge here. It's still very CBT is what, you know, like the medical world. I mean, there's a lot of. If you're, if you're trying to work with Doctors or anybody in the. For referrals, that's kind of where they still are. So. Yeah, so that's a bit of why I think I have that fear.

[Allison]

Yeah. Yeah. Well. And you can have an incredibly successful practice without getting a single referral from a doctor, so.

[Jen]

Good point.

[Allison]

That's not necessarily something you have to navigate.

[Jen]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Allison]

And I'll say as somebody who's been a client of a therapist who does IFS and emdr, it's weird. We can own that it doesn't make logical sense in the way we think about therapy that these things make such an incredible impact. But the words you use of wanting to go deeper appeals to a lot of clients. A lot of your ideal clients, your non ideal clients are going to want kind of the more the homework and the reframing, the kind of more strict CBT stuff. Those aren't your ideal clients, so you don't have to convince them to go this other route. Your ideal clients may have already been in therapy before and they're like, here I am, like, I'm circling the drain again, but at a higher level than I was before because of the helpful therapy I've gotten. But here I am again, and I want to figure out how to not be in this situation again. So you can really speak to going deeper, finding kind of root cause types of things, learning how to manage old patterns that you don't want to engage with anymore.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Allison]

But we do need to know what they're coming in for, because it sounds like they're presenting concern is kind of all over the map and the underlying stuff.

[Jen]

Yeah. And I get stuck there sometimes when I try to think about it, because like I said, it presents so many different ways. But at the end of the day, it is kind of the same thing. It's that not good enough. I have to keep doing, doing. And maybe that's. Yeah, I find that the hardest. Right.

[Allison]

Yeah. I mean, you can speak to the not good enough. I mean, there's so much to say there. Right. The daily lived experience of somebody who, no matter what they do, it's not for lack of trying to be good enough. No matter what they do, they. They never feel good enough for more than a moment.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And you can talk about that from a workaholism perspective. You can say, some of my clients continue to try to prove themselves to their boss or prove themselves to their bank account or, you know, some of my clients are like, they struggle with weight or food and body stuff and they're trying to feel good enough. There. So you can kind of give examples of your ideal clients and how that shows up for them, but that the underlying thing from their perspective, like, they'll all cop to at this point. They might not be able to be like, I'm a trauma sur survivor, but they can all cop to. Like, I never feel good enough. Like I'm always trying and I always feel less than.

[Jen]

Yeah, I think that's it. Right. Just kind of coming back to those pain points. Always. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for real, like, just like you said, it is weird when you go into that when you're first doing that therapy. And it's strange. And I get. I'm always in my head about what if they come in and they find it weird? Right. I usually call it out. You know, when I do quite. I call it out and say, this is weird.

[Allison]

Yeah, it's weird. And once you've experienced it, like, one of my parts is a good mother part.

[Jen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Allison]

My good mother part gives me excellent advice and I'm like, how the hell am I accessing that through my good mother, but not through my true self? You know, like, how is that accessible there but not when I'm searching for it, when I need it.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And so if it works.

[Jen]

That's right.

[Allison]

I'm okay with weird.

[Jen]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And I think, you know, I just. It's just about me owning that and going into dealing with my own parts. About the woo. Woo.

[Allison]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Jen]

Okay. I guess the other pieces around this whole, you know, plan of mine of leaving the public. So they're fifth, like technically two and a half days a week. I'm also seeing about 18 clients a week in the group practice. So I'm pretty exhausted and I have a little. One.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So pretty. Pretty tired and not able to keep this much longer. Currently supervising students and not wanting to leave them hanging, but getting closer to just having to go out the door. So my question to you would be, and I know that I completely am obviously not holding you responsible around the financial mean, I need to know what I need. But when I talk about leaving there and then staying with the group practice and continuing to try to build this other opportunity here, does that make logical sense or do you. Would you say. Yeah, okay. Okay.

[Allison]

Yeah, that definitely makes logical sense. It just needs to make sure that it makes mathematical sense.

[Jen]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[Allison]

And it may be that you can contract with the organization just to cover the students. That's something that I've seen people do where.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Allison]

If that's a part you feel Connected to. And you don't want to leave it. Yeah, yeah. So to say, like I'm happy to contract it, you know, this rate to continue to provide supervision.

[Jen]

Yeah. Okay.

[Allison]

And that can give you some money in your private practice because that's where you'd build that from.

[Jen]

Yeah, yeah. And I guess, you know, with, with the group practice that I am staying with, part of me thinks, well, staying here while also trying to build my own thing is silly because I could be using that time focusing on the marketing, the networking, all of those pieces. Right. And, and I keep, you know, currently there just isn't. There just is not between the jumps, there is no time left. So I guess, you know, that's the part that, that's the toughest is I, I'm kind of doing this in a stepped approach. I'll leave the agency, stay with the group practice and slowly start to build this and then hopefully move some clients over. Yeah. If that makes sense. Then I guess that I'm going to continue on that path. You know, in most of my marketing, again, like anything that I've done, any connecting that I have done has been in another province. So it's starting over in a new place with a very different market.

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jen]

Growing though. Growing big time, but also heavily saturated. Now we have a new national school that is a complete for profit situation that is pumping out clinicians left, right and center and they're all going direct to private. And so that's a whole new world too because for a long time we just didn't have enough. We didn't have enough. We didn't have enough. We didn't have enough.

[Allison]

Yeah, but like you said, there aren't many therapists trained in the way you are.

[Jen]

No, that's true, that's true.

[Allison]

So saturation is one thing and usually it's actually a good sign that there's saturation. It means that there's enough therapy clients to support all those therapists.

[Jen]

Right, yeah.

[Allison]

And at this point, because you're one of the few people trained in these kind of more depth oriented modalities, then you're going to be able to really differentiate yourself in a way that's helpful.

[Jen]

Yeah, hopefully. So that's the goal. And I know that you typically recommend like the group practice exchange for a source for folks who are starting that is that still continue to be.

[Allison]

If you're starting a group practice. Yeah, yeah. But I would make sure you know how to get referrals on your own first.

[Jen]

That's we, my partner and I, my future Partner and I have talked very clearly about. We want to make sure we are already there and kind of bursting at the seams before we start bringing in other folks.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Yeah. Okay. What else did I want to talk about? Oh, yeah, the other piece was just around marketing to clients versus referral sources, because I am talking about that. Okay. So maybe I'm not going to go to the medical doctor. Maybe that's not going to be the place I go. But, you know, even still, like, with this being newer here, I feel like there's a fair amount of EMDR happening, but not very much ifs. And I. I'm just, like, feeling like there's going to be some education maybe perhaps as well, on the level of working with other, like, I don't know, like an osteopath or a naturopath or whomever that I'm marketing to. Would you recommend creating something more specific for them? You know, because my website's going to try to speak more to the ideal client, but does it make sense to.

[Allison]

Have something they're not going to take the time to read? Whatever you create.

[Jen]

There you go. There it is. There's the truth bomb right there.

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah, sorry. But in conversation, you'll have the opportunity to tell them. So I would, like, hone a really clear description of what you do and who you do it for. I hate the words elevator pitch because I think often those end up sounding really cheesy. But I think if you can find one like a version of that that is conversational and that anticipates the questions of the people you'll be talking to, then I think you have a real opportunity to be able to stand out. And, I mean, we're all trained in cbt, right? So you can also say, like, I'm trained in cbt, but what I find is most effective for my clients is this combination. And most. I mean, most providers don't really care what modality you're using. Ultimately, they want to know who you work with and if you can help their patients and if you seem competent.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Allison]

A lot of people are making these referrals and these decisions about who to refer to based on their gut instincts.

[Jen]

Yeah, true.

[Allison]

Because I've never been grilled by any of the physicians that refer to me about how I work. I've just talked about who I work with in a way that had them realize. I know, I get it. You know.

[Jen]

This one is bigger. This is more about, like, just been thinking a lot about, you know, part of the reason. So the group practice I'm with is fully, like, private pay. There's no insurance. The partner that I'm working with does accept insurance here. It's very different in Canada than it is in the U.S. right, right, right. Totally different. It's very similar to more like a. Yeah. Anyway, we can just bill direct, but they basically pay our rates for the most part. Right. There's none of this, like, different rates and everywhere, so. But we've been talking a lot about just like, balancing that growth mindset with our social work values. Right. Of needing that. Just curious for you how what you have found to be helpful with that. Really?

[Allison]

Yeah. Well, I find. So I do keep a sliding scale.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Allison]

A number of sliding scale spots in our practice. That's what works for me.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Allison]

In addition to being really clear that the more money I make, the more I can donate to the people and causes that are going to be able to do so much more for so many more people than I could do sitting one on one in my office. So I take it both micro and macro, social work wise.

[Jen]

Yeah. Okay. And then ultimately, you know, the only other piece is around with us being in different provinces when we're thinking about the strategies for marketing that make the most sense, some of those are going to be different than if we were in the same community. Right. So just blogging is something that actually she's doing a lot of that already and she's excellent at. And I'm going to start to do so that we can kind of COVID both areas. But would you say SEO would probably be a more important factor where we're trying to cover such.

[Allison]

Yeah, yeah. For sure. And blogging is great. And people have to find those blogs for them to work. Right. And so SEO and blogging go together so well. So I would consider SEO for sure. Networking is still a thing across both provinces because you can do the zoom ones.

[Jen]

That's right. Yeah.

[Allison]

So website, obviously. So you've got four there with, like, website networking, blogging, SEO. Do you have a fifth marketing strategy that y'all are using?

[Jen]

Not so far, no. We've talked about the podcast idea, but that feels like that's a long game.

[Allison]

It's a long game. It's a lot of work. So it's not like an efficient way to fill your practice.

[Jen]

Okay.

[Allison]

I wonder about ifs directories or anything like that for the people who have caught on. I know that's in some parts of the US That's a really good referral source for people and EMDR directories. I would consider that And I would consider it for, like, three to six months, see what happens with it. And if you haven't gotten any clients within six months, then I would stop paying for it if it's a paid service.

[Jen]

Yeah. Because Psychology Today is. I actually think it's much better here than, like, where I'm marketing in Toronto. There's so. There's just so many to go through, pages and pages and pages and pages. And we know that, like, the way that their whole system works, the algorithms, you never know which page you're going to land on. But it probably will prove to be from folks I have talked to here a bit better here. So I guess that's kind of another one. Like, really? Yeah. Trying to improve our presence there and make sure that we've used, like, your formulas and all of these things to really make sure we're putting everything we can up there to connect to our website. Yeah, we're definitely investing in the website situation. Yeah. Good. Yeah.

[Allison]

And off topic, but are you legally business partners? Have you done, like, a business divorce plan, all of that stuff?

[Jen]

We are just in the process of that.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Jen]

So we've met with a lawyer and meeting with an accountant this week and trying to get those ducks in a row and really trying to figure out what makes the most sense. It's complicated deciding.

[Allison]

Very complicated. And it's like, you know, you're friends with somebody, you respect them and you want to just like, let's go in together. But there are so many hoops to jump through. And, like, I mean, I hate. I hate telling people, always have your divorce plan set up in your business while you're setting it up at the front end and you really like each other, just in case. It's not something I would ever, like, recommend for somebody with marriage.

[Jen]

No.

[Allison]

But, you know, it's true.

[Jen]

So many conversations about, like, the 50, 50 versus 5149. And like, what are we going to do? And do we want to say we'll go to a mediator at this step and, you know, it's just like. Yeah. Really trying to have that. Both of us are very cautious about that. Which is good, I think.

[Allison]

Yeah, it's great. It's great because it's probably going to prevent you needing that business divorce.

[Jen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Allison]

The fact that you're both being so intentional going into it.

[Jen]

Yeah, but those are. And I think a lot of people don't think as much about that part.

[Allison]

Yeah, they don't. I can tell you, I've talked to enough people, they don't yeah, you have.

[Jen]

That's for.

[Allison]

They get excited, that's for sure. Yeah. They assume it's all going to be easier if they're partnered up when there's a whole other layer of complexity that it invites. But you also have each other to lean on in a way that solo practitioners don't.

[Jen]

It's very isolating. Right. For a lot of people. So. Okay. Well, this has been really helpful. Good.

[Allison]

I'm glad. Let us know how it's going in the Facebook group.

[Jen]

Will do. Yeah. And I hope everything continues to improve for you folks at home.

[Allison]

Thank you. Everybody's working hard, so that's all the best we can do, right?

[Jen]

Yeah, absolutely. Take care.

[Allison]

Thanks.

[Jen]

Bye. Bye.

[Allison]

If you're ready for a much easier practice, TherapyNotes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code abundant for two months. If you're listening, you probably need some support building your practice. If you're a super newbie, grab our free checklist using the link in the show notes. I'd love for you to follow rate and review, but I really want you to share this episode with a therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.