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Abundant Practice Podcast
Episode #610: Using Tech Better, feat. Amity Cooper
00:27:48
Allison and guest , MA, LPCC, NCC discuss the role of technology in therapy practices, with Amity sharing her excitement about the potential of AI, VR, and wearable tech for mental health. They emphasize the importance of therapists becoming...
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practice building.com Links all right, onto the show. Some of y'all aren't sending HIPAA compliant email and it's a problem. Even if you're paying for a business Google Workspace account and have a signed BAA, your emails still aren't 100% compliant. That's where Palbox comes in. You can connect Palbox to your Google Workspace or Microsoft 365 email one time and you're completely covered. No one has to sign into portals. It sends and it shows up like any other email behind the scenes. Powbox software checks the security settings of the recipient and ensures that the email is sent properly so you're not violating HIPAA in the ways you may accidentally be. Now, I know HIPAA isn't sexy, but we don't avoid compliance in an Abundant practice. We check the boxes we need to check and this is the easiest way to do that with email. Check out my friends@powbox.com that's P A U B O X Use Code abundant to get $250 off your first year of Powell Box. That makes it less than $100 for your first year. Again, that's P A U B O X.com use code ABUNDANT so I've talked about TherapyNotes on here for years. I could talk about the features and the benefits in my sleep. But there are a couple things I want you to know about therapynotes that doesn't typically make it into an ad script. First is that they actually care if you like their platform. They don't only make themselves available on the phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your hair out when you get stuck. They also take member suggestions and implement those that there's client demand for, like Therapy Search, an included listing service that helps clients find you internal and external secure messaging clinical outcome measures to keep an eye on how your clients are progressing. A super smooth super bill process, real time eligibility to check on your client's insurance. In my conversations with the employees there at all levels, they all really believe in their product and they want you to love it too. Second, they are proudly independently owned. Why should you care about that because as soon as venture capital becomes involved, the focus shifts from making customers happy to making investors happy. Prices go way up, innovation plateaus. Making more money with as little output as possible becomes the number one focus. With over 100,000 therapists using their platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful. And they don't have to sacrifice your experience to stay there. You can try two months free@therapynotes.com with the coupon code Abundant. Welcome back to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm your host, Alison Parear, founder of Abundance Practice Building, and I am here with Amity Cooper, and we're going to talk about using technology in your practice beyond what probably many of us are currently doing. Emily is an expert at this. You can find her over@clinicalcareercollective.com love the alliteration. So, first, thanks so much for being here. I appreciate it.
- [03:25]
B
Oh, well, thanks for having me. I was just, just bursting with praise for you before we got on the call. So this is really a privilege for me to be here, so thank you.
- [03:38]
A
Absolutely. I appreciate it. Thank you. Well, can we start with how did you get interested in using technology more in your clinical practice?
- [03:49]
B
Yeah. Oh, gosh. Well, it really starts about 20 years ago when I started my first business. I was a fashion accessories designer and I had just finished up a master's degree in conflict resolution. And I had sort of, let me just say that I had dipped my toe into the idea of the healing world, but I wasn't quite ready and I felt a little too vulnerable and unsure of myself at least to be that intimate and, and up close and personal with other individuals. So getting a degree and, and working as a conflict resol was really up my alley because I knew that I liked solving problems and helping people find a better path. So to make a long story much shorter here, I ended up transitioning and going into the business world. And I was in that world for about 15, 18 years. And I mo and I started multiple companies from fashion all the way through chocolate. And so I had been dabbling in using technology all along the way, especially because I was, I was in an industry of manufacturing and that was always requiring, you know, upgrades and redos and figuring out systems that would make my business and my production run more smoothly. So by the time I ended up back in mental health and I went back to school, I think in 2015 or 16, and then graduated, I came out and I realized that I had all of these skills that were never offered in our clinical training. And I. And I just didn't it just didn't make sense to me because I saw this huge pocket of need and it wasn't being addressed. So that is how I apply technology today.
- [05:46]
A
So that's amazing. And I think. I mean, you and I were probably around the same age. We are not like young millennials or Gender Z or anybody who, like, technology was always at our fingertips. It was not. We grew up without cell phones.
- [06:02]
B
Right, right.
- [06:03]
A
So.
- [06:04]
B
Right.
- [06:04]
A
I think it's also important to note that for those people of our generation who are like, I don't know. I don't know about the utility. I don't know about learning it. Like, we can keep learning about technology. If you can keep learning clinical stuff, you can keep learning about technology and applying it to the clinical stuff.
- [06:21]
B
Oh, so true. Right.
- [06:23]
A
And probably for most of us, we have to have a real vested interest to learn something, because learning something boring never sounds fun, and so we don't. So I think listening in this conversation about how you can apply this technology in your clinical work in a way that would make your work better, that, I mean, inspires most of us. Right. Who doesn't want to be a better therapist.
- [06:45]
B
Right? Yeah. It's such an interesting thing because, well, we can go in a few directions here, but when I think about our institutional training, they prepared us really, really well to be great clinicians. I know we've all got that covered, and we're constantly veered towards improving our clinical applications. But, folks, my goodness, I mean, there's over 220 different interventions out there. There are other means and other ways that you can advance yourselves in your career and why at all of these other options, learn how to, you know, apply business skills, learn how to make yourself more efficient. And especially with all of these technologies coming on, there's plenty of trainings available to you to figure out how AI is going to assist you, to figure out how the next wearable is going to assist you and your clients. And then the big elephant in the room for me is VR and how to bring that into your therapy space and even create a virtual therapy space with that. With that tool. So there are so many ways and so many means in which you can advance yourself. I think that's what I want to hit home here.
- [08:05]
A
Yeah. And I want to speak to a fear that I've had several therapists bring up to me recently. I posted a reel about it today, actually, of this fear of, like, AI is going to take over our job. They're taking over everybody's job. And so I just want to like, speak to that real quick before you get your hackles up. Y'all, our job, all the data says, like, it's the relationship that really helps move people forward. And AI is not a relationship. It can say some things that are helpful. It can give some tools and tips. Absolutely. There's a great, like, I love AI. I use it a fair amount in my like, daily household living. Even I'm pro AI for the most part. But I have no fears, like literally zero fears that people are going to start going to chat GPT for therapy instead of therapists.
- [08:50]
B
Oh, no, no. What we're seeing though is individuals because we are limited on our reach and impact. And we have, I mean, if you're, if, if you're listening to this, you're well aware that we have a mental health crisis going on and there just aren't enough of us to go around. I think it's close to a million of us short. So when you think about that, people reach out and access help wherever they can. Thank God there's 988. Thank God there's seven cups. There's professional listeners out there. There's access to different services. If they can't reach professional help right away. But let me just stress that our clients are already, and we all are already using all of these digital chatbots for help every day. So the truth be told is if some, somebody's going to go and contact calm.com or betterhelp.com because they need help right away. And those are amazing tools. They didn't come online, I guess until about maybe 10, 12 years ago. And thank God they were there during the pandemic. But you're not in competition with them. And I think, Allison, you really are clarifying that you are not in competition with them. You have a unique special sauce, an unfair advantage that no algorithm can hold candle or weight to you. So utilizing these tools sets you apart and above and beyond and makes you more desirable. It sets, specializes you, it makes you stand out from the crowd. And the crowd right now that we're all in is 99% of us are not utilizing these tools effectively and efficiently in our practices. The 1% who are are leap bounds ahead of you.
- [10:59]
A
Yeah. Can we talk about some of the things that are available? What are options with that we can use within our practice?
- [11:06]
B
Right. Okay. So first and foremost, what we have been using and we've really adapted to is video. I mean, just saying that you put a reel out this morning, Right. The idea of social media being able to offer this outstretched hand and expansive voice and connection to others is palatable and it has made a world of difference for others who feel isolated and lonely. So I think we're going to see continued expansion in video services and tools. I mean, we never knew the word zoom before. I mean, my God, it's kind of incredible. So I would say first and foremost, get really comfortable making video. Get really comfortable with your finger and your phone and pressing play and record so that you can expand your message and have a conversation with your clientele. Okay, so then the other piece that I mentioned, three things, well, four things now, but we, we mentioned AI. AI is our friendly assistant and we can use him in two ways. We can use him in our back office practices to make ourselves more efficient and profitable and making it easier to get those tasks done, of wearing those multiple hats, of being a solopreneur. Okay, so we have that bucket and then you can start to think about interactions and feedback, focus on homework. You're gonna, you're gonna have your clients log into a portal if you're not already doing that. You're gonna give them homework, you're gonna give them assessments, you're gonna give them all of these tools to improve and to practice what you're doing in session. So imagine that your AI assistant is also assisting your client to advance and make those goals reachable faster. Especially if you, if you have a treat, AI can really help you with that and keep, keep you on track, keep you both on track. And then I would say you have your wearables, all your fun gadgets, from eyeglasses to aura rings, to actually using it in special. Well, I think this kind of goes back to the A. It's kind of like this combination of like where you can do assessment tools using sensors to assess and validate maybe your diagnosis. So there are audio bots that are able to listen into somebody's affect and presentation and make an assessment of whether or not somebody's depressive or anxious. And those are proven to be like 98% valid and reliable. I mean, that's incredible. And I, as a human ear, I think we only have maybe a 63%. Right.
- [14:06]
A
It makes sense because we've got all our own stuff going on. On.
- [14:09]
B
We're not only addressing what is in front of us, but we're also assessing what's going on inside of us. And so it's never 100% accurate. So imagine now you have all of these tools and sensors that you can put onto your body and you can track in real time. And get biofeedback information about what's going on with your clients. Now, of course, that plays into a lot of other issues about confidentiality and protection and all of those things. But those are things that are manageable and figureoutable. Right. They're not going to keep you from addressing these hardcore fundamental issues in session. Okay. The last thing that I absolutely love and I'm super excited about is VR. VR is creating an immersive alternative universe that in a variety, in a scale like way, we can have something that is quasi real, quasi digital. We can. And then we can go to something that is completely digital and immersive where you can step into a virtual reality and you can have an avatar, your client can be an avatar and you can reach people at scale. And at scale, I mean, moving from 30 people a week that you might be seeing at tops to maybe hundreds, even thousands of people gathering in one place, having a conference, having a retreat, like, it is a powerful tool and it's already here and we shouldn't be afraid of it.
- [15:52]
A
Yeah. I think about how beneficial VR could be for phobias, particularly those phobias where they're not as easy to access. Like it's not Heights, for instance, which is fairly easy to access, but.
- [16:04]
B
Right.
- [16:05]
A
It could be a really powerful tool to be able to provide that exposure. That's necessary. Yeah.
- [16:12]
B
And there's four companies out there that are actively providing phobia anxiety. Okay. So it runs the gamut of interventions. But most what we see today is we're addressing phobias, we're addressing loneliness, we're addressing depression, anxiety. We see a lot of mental health gaming apps. Now I know that this is really a hot topic and controversial in a lot of ways, but there have been numerous studies that have been conducted by everyone on, I believe in Australia and they were doing major studies to explore the benefits and the pitfalls of gaming for your mental health. So like this stuff has been again churning for the last 25 years, but now we actually have the data and the statistics that back all of these beliefs and really exposing the benefits and the pitfalls to it. So back to, there's, there's four companies that are really the major players. One that comes to mind, it's called Amelia, formerly known as S. And they have a great system and platform if you're interested in bringing this to the fore for you. And it, it is an online platform and your laptop is your digital controller board and then you can, you have a virtual headset that you provide to your client. And you are monitoring in real time the applications and the interventions, and then it's giving you feedback and these prices. I think the other stickler here is because it's such an unknown in mainstream clinical practice, you know, pricing can get a little up there, but thankfully Medicaid has approved this, so we're starting to see reimbursement processes come in that haven't been there before since the pandemic. So typically, if a clinician is interested or a group practice is interested in incorporating VR into their practice, they'll probably pay about 1500 dollars for the practice, for the software itself, and then you can upcharge the client for that particular usage, and there is possibility for reimbursement. So things are moving. The tides are changing here.
- [18:37]
A
I'm wondering about. So in practice building, which is the majority of what we talk about here, like you mentioned video, like getting used to recording yourself. You know, I'm real big on, like, if you hate social media, you don't need to be on social media. It's fine. Like, there's so many other ways to market your practice, but I do think being comfortable on video, whether or not you're on social, can benefit everybody as we go forward. Because that's just our. It's our connection point online at this point. It's. It's more so than podcasts, more so than blogs, for sure. Video is just so much more powerful for people to feel connected to you. So I think video is really helpful in building your practice. I think of the many applications of AI in building your practice. I do not think AI writes great mental health blogs that are interesting to read and aren't cheesy. Everything comes down to a great prompt. Right?
- [19:31]
B
Right.
- [19:32]
A
But I think if you have a blog post that you've written and you say, I need this to be more cleaned up, or I need to add 200 words to this blog post so it can be good for SEO or whatever. And please match my tone. Please match the spirit of the blog. Go deeper on the points I've made versus creating new points. You can kind of play with AI and keep nudging it closer to what you want to essentially edit for you. AI charting, like note taking. I know, that's a big one right now, right?
- [20:04]
B
Yeah, it's all about efficiency and productivity and working smarter, not harder. I mean, I, I keep coming back to that adage. It's definitely from the 80s, but why not? I mean, the 80s produced a whole way of systemizing our life and our workload. So now we're just optimizing that and we're just figuring out how to do a better, easier, smarter so that we can be knee to knee with our clients in a way that's, that alleviates all of that pressure of performing the work that we do. All of the above to what you're suggesting. And let me just add that AI and large language models, LLMs are really a prompt engineering tool. You know, what goes in comes back out, but it's regurgitated and it's learning all the time from everything that you're inputting. It's growing, it's learning, it's evolving so that it can be, it can become clearer and more honed in its message. So it's your job as a human being interacting with that keyboard and that algorithm to educate specifically what you want. It's not going to automatically know anything unless you give it the information it needs to work with. So get familiar with it, get practice. You're not going to break it. Experiment. Definitely invest. If you're going to, if you're going to try it, you're going, going to start with ChatGPT, OpenAI and you're going to invest and you're going to pay a nominal fee, a subscription service for 4.0 because you get a lot more for the money for that and you befriend it and you educate it and, and it can save hours of your monotonous digital input life.
- [21:57]
A
And that includes your real life, like you're outside of work life. Life. I will use it for meal planning. I will use it for traveling. I will use it for so many different things to like cut down on my research time, especially the things I hate, like meal planning.
- [22:13]
B
So true. So true. And then I delegate.
- [22:16]
A
Yes.
- [22:16]
B
Yes.
- [22:19]
A
Yeah. So I feel like we went over video, AI VR. What was the other one? There was one more.
- [22:24]
B
Wearables.
- [22:25]
A
Wearable. So like, I mean, I've got my aura ring. I've been wearing it for three years now. I love this thing. For those that don't know, it's a, a, it's a wearable technology. It's a ring. And it will tell you how you slept. How much REM sleep did I get last night? How much deep sleep did I get last night? What might be the cause of not a lot of deep sleep. How much exercise did I get throughout the day? What else? My readiness score gives me a readiness score every day, which I really do take into account because I will go hard unless I am told to slow down. So I appreciate it. Will some Days just be like, today. You need to rest. I'm like, okay. And it has. I think the biggest change I have seen in my health with this watch is my sleep has improved so drastically because I could see if I scroll my phone before going to sleep, it always impacts my deep sleep. If I read a book, I'm fine.
- [23:21]
B
You're great.
- [23:22]
A
Yeah. So, like, I know that that's what happens, but I needed to see that that's what happens for me and over and over to see that that's what happens for me.
- [23:31]
B
So love it. I love it. It is. Oura ring sits is is in a bracket or like a silo of digital therapeutics. Okay. Now, this industry is ginormous. It's in the billions of dollars, and there is a race to market if somebody could come up with another widget that can track, elucidate, and provide different information about how your body and your mind functions and how you can optimize that. Somebody has an idea for it and they've already had a patent for it. And sort of one of the leaders in research and discovery of this is Daniel Kraft, and he is a doctor and he works with Singularity University. And he. It makes himself like a genuine guinea pig. Like, he's always posting stuff about what. What the newest gadget is, and he. It's hilar. But in any event, these digital therapeutics, we are going to see them in every facet of behavioral and mental health, and we're already seeing it in healthcare across the spectrum here, from training to surgeries to whatever. But really, mental and behavioral health is sort of the last frontier of development. And so I want to stress to all of your listeners is that as an industry, we are at the front lines of we're the wayshowers here. Like, we're the people that are on the front lines. We're doing the work with the individuals we ourselves provide and can access so much data and information about what's going on and how the field is transforming and transitioning. And we need to come to the table with these developers and with these innovators here to be part of the conversation and at the table with them to help them develop realistic, honest, reliable, validated tools. Okay, So I keep saying this in all of my discussions with different podcasters out there. Like, I just want to reintroduce the fact that we, as being such well educated, informed consumers and workers, we should take part in it. So if you have any interest in research or advocacy or anything, please get out there and join that conversation because they need that information from us just as much as we need their new tools and tips and everything else.
- [26:19]
A
When I just think about your point, it's going to come out anyway.
- [26:22]
B
It is, it is.
- [26:23]
A
And it makes sense for us as people who understand our field because we're in it.
- [26:28]
B
We're the experts.
- [26:29]
A
Have a seat at the table.
- [26:30]
B
Right?
- [26:31]
A
Yeah.
- [26:31]
B
Right.
- [26:32]
A
Amazing. Ah, thank you so much, Amity. I really appreciate it. I hope that folks feel a lot less intimidated in maybe taking a step closer to technology or just fully embracing it. If you were already doing some, just go for it. Like if one of these things is really interesting to you, dive into one of them. Get to know it, see how it could work for you. I appreciate it.
- [26:55]
B
Oh, thank you so much. This was a great conversation.
- [26:59]
A
Have a great day. Make sure your email is actually HIPAA compliant with Pow Box Use code Abundant to get Palbox for less than a hundred dollars your first year@paubox.com let's stay compliant. If you're ready for a much easier practice, Therapy Notes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code abundant for two months. Free. If you're listening, you probably need some support building your practice. If you're a super newbie, grab our free checklist using the link in the Show Notes. I'd love for you to follow rate and review, but I really want you to share this episode with a thumb therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.