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Abundant Practice Podcast
Episode #612: Imposter Syndrome & Niche
00:26:40
Allison chats with member Ekaterina about her private practice, which focuses on couples therapy for high-demand professionals and consensual non-monogamous couples. Together they explore strategies for improving Ekaterina's online presence &...
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practice building.com Links all right, onto the show so I've talked about therapy notes on here for years. I could talk about the features and the benefits in my sleep. But there are a couple things I want you to know about Therapy notes that doesn't typically make it into an ad script. First is that they actually care if you like their platform. They don't only make themselves available on the phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your hair out when you get stuck. They also take member suggestions and implement those that there's client demand for. Like Therapy Search, an included listing service that helps clients find you internal and external secure messaging Clinical outcome measures to keep an eye on how your clients are progressing A super smooth super bill process Real time eligibility to check on your client's insurance. In my conversations with the employees there at all levels, they all really believe in their product and they want you to love it too. Second, they are proudly independently owned. Why should you care about that? Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved, the focus shifts from making customers happy to making investors happy. Prices go way up. Innovation plateaus. Making more money with as little output as possible becomes the number one focus. With over 100,000 therapists using their platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful and they don't have to sacrifice your experience to stay there. You can try two months free@therapynotes.com with the coupon code Abundant Some of y'all aren't sending HIPAA compliant email and it's a problem. Even if you're paying for a business Google Workspace account and have a signed BAA, your emails still aren't 100% compliant. That's where Palbox comes in. You can connect Palbox to your Google Workspace or Microsoft 365 email one time and you're completely covered. No one has to sign into portals. It sends and it shows up like any other email behind the scenes. Powbox software checks the security settings of the recipient and ensures that the email is sent properly so you're not violating HIPAA and the ways accidentally be. Now I know HIPAA isn't sexy, but we don't avoid compliance. In an abundant practice, we check the boxes we need to check. And this is the easiest way to do that with email. Check out my friends@powbox.com that's P A U B O X. Use code abundant to get $250 off your first year of powbox. That makes it less than a hundred dollars for your first year. Again, that's P A U B O x dot com. Use code abundant.
- [03:00]
B
Hi.
- [03:01]
A
Hi. It's good to see you. It's Ekaterina is how I say your name right? Yes. Okay, so Ekaterina, what would be most helpful today?
- [03:12]
B
Lots.
- [03:13]
A
Okay.
- [03:14]
B
So I guess just a little bit about my background. So I did my master's in Hawaii. I got licensed there and then I decided to come back home to Ontario, Canada and start my own private practice. And I've been having a lot more issues than I thought I would. So I thought that maybe we could just chat about niche price. I know that you made a post recently about like how it's just more difficult nowadays to also just start a private practice. And I've kind of also been hearing the same thing from other therapists that I've been talking to. So in a way that's kind of validating knowing that like it just might take a little bit longer than it used to. But yeah, I just wanted to get some of your feedback on maybe things that I can do to improve or things that I'm already doing well and.
- [04:08]
A
Yeah, so yeah, well, let's start with niche first.
- [04:11]
B
Sure. So I work exclusively with couples. And so when I was trying to narrow it down, I really wanted it to be high achieving couples that are kind of struggling to navigate kind of work and home. And so when I thought about like narrowing it down even more, one of the pieces that I wanted to maybe narrow it down to, but I think this is kind of where the imposter syndrome might come in is kind of couples also experiencing non monogamy. And so I kind of, I worry that maybe making that my specific niche might be, I don't know, I guess like I have some training but I don't feel like I have enough in that area. So I kind of wanted it to be a part of my practice, but maybe not like my whole practice. So I guess that's kind of where I'm kind of stuck. Like is, yeah, that too broad of a niche or too like, I don't know, what are your.
- [05:12]
A
Well, I think like couples is too broad of a niche, but yeah, both the niches within the niche Right. The couples struggling with like high demand careers and busy home lives trying to find that balance. That's a clear niche. And consensual non monogamy. I'm assuming when you say non monogamy. Consensual. Okay. So consensual non monogamy. Definitely. Definitely one. And I'm not surprised your practice is feeling stalled. If you're kind of at the crux of which of these do I want? Like that makes sense.
- [05:42]
B
Yeah.
- [05:43]
A
You haven't gone all in on one and so your marketing is not going to go all in. So what is it that would make you feel more competent working with the consensual non monogamy folks?
- [05:59]
B
I don't know, because I do feel like I could and because having to have come back, I'm getting re licensed in Ontario and so part of that is I need to still do my, a few more supervision hours. So I thought that would also be like a great time. Right. To expand this part of my practice while also getting supervision. But I think it's just that piece that like I've always worked more with like college students and so like it hasn't necessarily been an area that I have a lot of experience. And so also like when I'm thinking about charging what I charge, I'm like, well, who am I to charge that? Because I don't feel like I have enough experience. But I know that I've had at least five years of clinical work, even if not in that department.
- [06:44]
A
Right, right. And so what informs your current understanding? Have you done ces? Have you talked? So your current understanding of consensual non monogamy, it has legs. It sounds like it's actual training.
- [06:57]
B
Yes.
- [06:58]
A
It's not like you have a friend who's ethically non monogamous or your own personal experience. Like it's based on training.
- [07:05]
B
Yeah, I've taken trainings, I've done readings. You know, I'm still kind of learning and kind of the supervisors that I do have in mind that when I do start seeing those couples, they do have experience in that area.
- [07:17]
A
Well, okay, so in my mind, and this is easier for me to say, but just like in my mind it's go for it. You've got the proper supports, you have the training. It's imposter syndrome holding you back. Is there more to learn? A hundred percent for all of us about everything.
- [07:33]
B
Right.
- [07:34]
A
And it sounds like you have a genuine interest to be able to continue to learn and refine any and all skills for this population.
- [07:42]
B
Okay.
- [07:43]
A
So I Would say, go for it, because you have the supervisors lined up, because you have. Because you care about doing a good job. Typically, the people I'm most worried about are the ones who were like, yeah, I saw a client once, it's fine. Or I lived through this when I was 20, so I could do it.
- [07:59]
B
Right.
- [08:00]
A
So I would go ahead and like, maybe get on the books with a supervisor. Just so you can be like to yourself, like, okay, I'm getting the support I want. Even if you're talking in hypotheticals with the supervisor initially.
- [08:11]
B
Right, that's true.
- [08:13]
A
So if that's the population versus the other one that you're most on fire about, then, I mean, it's also a very underserved population, and it's a population that might go to a regular couples counselor because that's what's available. And the couples counselor has never taken a single training on non monogamy and is doing harm accidentally.
- [08:36]
B
Yeah, I definitely think it's. It's more of the imposter syndrome. Like, I know that even if I, you know, even if I was working with couples that I've had experience with. Right. Like, I would still be continuing, you know, to learn and grow. And so I think you make a really good point that like, you know, couples may be going to people who may not be experienced. Right. And so there is value. Even though I might not feel like I have all the experience and I know everything or kind of, I feel like I know enough to be able to hold space and to kind of just guide them based on kind of scientific research.
- [09:14]
A
Yeah, yeah. Because it's not even just people like a therapist being like, I don't really know what to do here. It's also that so many therapists don't refer out. They take everybody that calls.
- [09:24]
B
Yeah.
- [09:25]
A
And so they're potentially doing some harm. Not on purpose, of course. They also might not like it. They might be like, I think that this is not a legitimate way for people to be in relationship. They might be dreading every single time that couple shows up in their office.
- [09:39]
B
Right.
- [09:40]
A
Which is not the way any of us want to feel as clients. So if you need a little like, kick in the butt to just go for it. It's like you owe it to your future clients to get out there to have to be like the caring, understanding person who can help guide them so that they don't end up with somebody who doesn't refer out and doesn't like them.
- [10:04]
B
Okay. I guess what you're saying is just market completely to that Population, Right?
- [10:10]
A
Absolutely.
- [10:11]
B
Because I was just thinking if I target to the high achieving. Right. And then I could have like a specialty page on consensual non monogamy and like another specialty. I thought that could also be like a way that I'm not necessarily like filling maybe like my whole caseload with it. And it's kind of like a small step. I don't know, like, is there absolutely. Like one is better than the other.
- [10:32]
A
Or it's about what's going to be most fulfilling for you, like which one are you going to enjoy? And also like if tie trading makes it feel safer for you in a way that you will get out there and you will market, then tie trade away, you know, like have it just as a specialty page.
- [10:47]
B
Yeah.
- [10:47]
A
But your primary website be about this couple. That is the work life balance situation, which we need to get then pretty in depth with so that people really see themselves in that copy and to help you market better. So tell me some of like that daily live experience that you're currently talking about on your homepage.
- [11:08]
B
Yeah, I feel like I've changed my copy several times because I just wasn't happy. Sometimes I felt like, you know, I was kind of describing them like you're coming home, you know, you're kind of with your partner, but you're sitting on your phone and you're still kind of doing work stuff. You're avoiding a lot of the major conversations in your relationship because you're scared about what that might bring up. Because you're feeling that, you know, maybe you're not being kind of the best partner you can be. You know, just kind of a lot of. Maybe even just staying at work late. Kind of a lot of fighting or arguments or kind of the opposite.
- [11:49]
A
Right.
- [11:50]
B
Kind of fighting so much that you've gotten to the point where you're detracting from your partner and kind of just avoiding them. And then I guess I kind of also thought in regards to other issues that that might also bring in like potentially infidelity, potentially, you know, kind of mental health concerns. So kind of maybe one partner is struggling with depression, anxiety, not just from their work. Right. But kind of what brings up in the relationship.
- [12:21]
A
Do your clients know before they come to see you that they are staying at work to avoid being at home? Or are they still telling themselves they just have so much work to do?
- [12:34]
B
Probably that one they don't realize.
- [12:36]
A
Or they do.
- [12:38]
B
They probably don't realize.
- [12:39]
A
Okay, so this is going to be the lever to pull. Then you instead speak to their Busyness and the pressure. They have so much on them and their partner is never satisfied. And you speak to both partners, right? Like if both people are working and like both people have the same dynamic, then you talk about that. So this lever allows them to really see themselves. They're people who probably really value productivity because they're trying to do a lot of it. Maybe not effectively do a lot of it, but. So I would come from this perspective of how you don't waste time as a therapist. Basically, like these are people who value efficiency probably because they just have so little free time because they don't realize they're using it for avoidance. I mean, you can definitely bring up the, like there are conversations you're not having, but they probably don't have a lot of clarity on what those conversations are like. You can tell that things aren't okay, but you don't have the time or the energy, right, to like delve into figuring out what that is right now. And that's why you need help because you keep not doing that in your ideal couple for this. Are they both, are they both working these kinds of jobs that are like, will take everything you can give them, like super demanding.
- [14:04]
B
Yeah. I was thinking, you know, somebody who is kind of like in charge of a lot of people, right. So either like in a helping profession or someone who like is kind of higher up in the company where like a lot of the work and kind of supervision of others falls onto them. Right. So they always feel like they have to be the one to be in kind of control of the situation. So kind of it might be harder for them to relinquish that sense of control when they're in their relationship.
- [14:33]
A
Absolutely. And when you've got two people like that, it can get really messy really easily. And so I would speak to that at work. I find for these couples and that if this is true for your ideal person, but for these folks, they feel good at work, they do a good job. It's where they get a lot of their self esteem. And when they come home and their relationship is just very meh at best, it's easy to put more stock into work and more time into work because it's the place that they feel competent and safe, feeling really competent at work. And like, you like that you know what you're doing and that when problems arise, you know how to solve them. But that's not translating to home. I would talk about that.
- [15:19]
B
I did have kind of part of that in my copy before and then I got some feedback and then I was like, let me revise it.
- [15:27]
A
But yeah, yeah, just keep thinking about their experience right now. They come home. Imagine them coming home from work. She's kicking off her shoes. She sees them on his laptop at the dining room table. They might say a quick hey. They might not. But it's just. There's not connection. And there's not maybe even a lot of sadness about the fact that there's not connection. So you can talk about that. Like, you feel like you should feel more sad about the fact that you're not connected, but when really you feel irritated more than anything. Do they have kids, your ideal couple?
- [16:07]
B
No.
- [16:08]
A
Okay, good. Because I was like, oh, that's a lot to fit in.
- [16:11]
B
Yes.
- [16:11]
A
Yeah, yeah. Somebody. Something's gonna blow. And so that's another thing. Like, you can talk about dual income, no kids, or, like, really both wanting to move up the corporate ladder and that you've made choices consistent with that so far. But, like, as a couple, it feels while you're both reaching for your goals, your relationship is just bland at best.
- [16:38]
B
Right now. I describe it as like they're. They're moving at, like, parallel train tracks to each other.
- [16:44]
A
Yeah, yeah. They're like roommates. And, like, you can say, like, your sex life may be dead in the water and you may not even really.
- [16:52]
B
Care or nor do you have the energy to change it.
- [16:56]
A
Yeah, yeah, that's helpful.
- [16:57]
B
Thank you.
- [16:58]
A
But we also need to find the motivation for them. For them. We're describing a very common situation in America. Right, right. And, like, why are they wanting to invest some time and money and energy changing it? What is it that is happening for your ideal clients that make them ready to take action now?
- [17:17]
B
I guess if I was thinking about my ideal client, it would be that they just kind of reflect upon how much time has passed in the relationship, and they think about the future and how that's not something that they want to be spending for the next 10, 20, 30 years. Yeah. And they know that, like, you know, avoiding these conversations isn't helping, but yet they still can't muster up the courage to share with their partner what's kind of coming up for them.
- [17:47]
A
And is that because it's just hard for them to share in general, or is it because they're pretty sure they're going to be faced with rejection?
- [17:57]
B
More so faced with rejection.
- [17:58]
A
Okay.
- [17:59]
B
I was gonna say maybe another part is also just thinking about, like, specific goals. Right. That couples kind of go through. And, like, you know, maybe they're thinking, we've kind of gone through some of these steps. Right. We've dated, we are living together. We're, like, thinking about getting married, but, like, something feels really off or, like, not how I thought that a relationship would feel like.
- [18:25]
A
And I think you could do something to speak to their reticence to talk to their partner about even coming in on your homepage. You could mention it and then link to it. Like, a blog post, essentially, is all it would need to be of, like, how to talk to your partner about coming in for therapy. And you could just give them a script. You could say, like, some of my clients feel like they're not going to be rejected, but that it's just really hard to get the words out of their mouth. Here's the script for you. Some of my clients feel like their partner's going to think it's stupid or that it's, like, not that bad that couples therapy is needed. Here's a script for you. And that's also.
- [19:06]
B
Well, baby. Yeah, I was gonna say that'd be like, a great idea to also, like, dispel some of the myths, right. Why couples may or may not come to therapy.
- [19:14]
A
Yeah. But if you just have that, like, quick and easy for them, and it's in language that they're like, yes, that's exactly what I need to say. That's exactly what I'm afraid he's gonna reply with or whatever, then it helps them see that you really do know what you're doing.
- [19:29]
B
Okay. And I guess that that kind of brings me to the marketing piece. I've done a lot of networking so far, and I don't know, it's been kind of discouraging because I. Because I'm fully online. I've emailed probably around a hundred different therapists, and probably half of those people just did not reply. And so it gets, you know, kind of exhausting having to try to reach out to people and then be like, are they going to reach out or not? So I'm also kind of trying to balance myself with the different types or, like, how I market myself? So I kind of recently thought of maybe, like, couples massage therapists would be a great one. But I was just kind of curious, like, can you think of places where couples would want to visit that I could, like, maybe physically post something up that way? I don't know, just even, like, you know, in my own neighborhood, that kind of work gets out.
- [20:38]
A
I feel like if I'm struggling in my marriage and I am at, like, the yoga studio that I go to, maybe to help Manage my stress. And there's a poster there, a flyer there. I don't want to be seen looking at it. I feel like there's shame that's involved with these folks who really look like they have it all together with this very successful career and their power coupleness and all that. I might talk to divorce attorneys because these people might be kind of exploring it, but it's not contentious. They're just like, this is not what I thought it was going to be. So you could talk to divorce attorneys, be very clear with them about who you work with and who you don't, so that they're not like, oh, here's this very volatile couple that you're going to hate working with. I think that SEO could probably be really helpful for you because of the shame involved. And I might write blog posts because that's what you're going to need to do if you do SEO on things like, I don't really even care about my partner anymore. Like, the very meh. Because it's not a crisis. Right. But it is like a slow erosion. Right. So I would speak to those erosion points that. That your people might Google as talking to a. A child therapist who. Their most popular blog post that was viewed as like, what if I don't like my child? Like, one of those things people don't say, you don't say to your friends. Like, I don't think I even really like her. I love her, but I don't like her. But you'll Google it, you know?
- [22:11]
B
Yeah.
- [22:11]
A
So some of those things that your people aren't going to say aloud. Yeah. And I would create content around just like, I would call it like, a tepid relationship, you know, like, nothing bad is happening. Nobody's a bad person. It's just real boring. And I would think about, like, what do your ideal clients actually want out of therapy? What's the outcome? Like, do they want to feel like they're dating again? You know, do they want the love and the excitement and the vibrancy and all that? Maybe not. They might not have the energy for it. So talking about what their goals are together in your copy, like, the kind of relationship that they're working towards, like a mature, true partnership where they make each other laugh. You know, you're not saying, like, you're making. Where you can't keep your hands off each other, but you make each other laugh every day.
- [23:06]
B
Right.
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A
That kind of stuff.
- [23:08]
B
Okay, that's definitely helpful, I feel like, because I think I've been trying to kind of maybe Figure out, like, which niche I want to go with and kind of going back and forth. I think it's been kind of challenging, but I think this really helps to kind of go a little bit deeper. And I feel like I have a pretty good idea. But I feel like, like you said, right. Like, maybe even just writing blog posts can help with the SEO piece, because I feel like. I don't know, it's just. I think being fully online is also more challenging. And kind of going from a place where I felt like I was an easy pick for a lot of people just because there wasn't a lot of therapists to begin with, to, you know, coming back to a place that has over 40,000 therapists, that in itself is just like, oh, my God.
- [23:57]
A
Yeah, yeah. And with a niche, you can stand out. And I would reach out to other people who do couples counseling.
- [24:03]
B
Yeah.
- [24:04]
A
And, yeah, I mean, if 50% are ghosting you, that's totally. I'd say that's pretty normal.
- [24:09]
B
Okay.
- [24:09]
A
So instead of being like, I really hope all these people write back, to just be like, whoever writes back is awesome. You know, like, other people are busy. I get it. If there's a really specific reason you want to get in touch with a particular person, then that might make sense to kind of go hard on it. But otherwise, like, if. If somebody doesn't reply, you don't need to follow up.
- [24:25]
B
Yeah, that's kind of what I just been doing. I'm like, well, the people that do reply, I feel like they're kind of, you know, great connections and they're actually people that I like. So I think the world will kind of help bring in the people that I need.
- [24:37]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And thinking about other places where your ideal clients go, like, from a networking perspective, getting in touch with. If they're more likely to go naturopathic medicine, for instance, you know, just the kind of niche places. And networking with those folks, the acupuncturists, if that's their vibe or if it's not, if it's like a sports league or something like that, then I wouldn't leave a flyer. But I might consider doing a talk or something like that for different groups.
- [25:07]
B
Okay.
- [25:08]
A
I don't know if you have the Junior League in Canada, but we have the Junior League here, which is kind of like. It's like a women's organization. A lot of attorneys and doctors and, like, stay at home moms, like, a lot of community members, and they raise funds for whatever projects they decide they want to raise funds for.
- [25:27]
B
Okay.
- [25:28]
A
But it's often a lot of high performing women in there and so you could give a talk about how to enjoy your partner or something like that. You'd want to phrase it in a way that is catchy and clear at the same time.
- [25:41]
B
Yeah.
- [25:42]
A
Okay.
- [25:42]
B
Awesome. Thank you.
- [25:44]
A
Sure.
- [25:44]
B
That was very helpful.
- [25:46]
A
Let us know how it's going in the Facebook group. I want to love a catch up for sure. Bye.
- [25:52]
B
Take care.
- [25:53]
A
Bye. If you're ready for a much easier practice, Therapy Notes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code abundant for two months free. Make sure your email is actually HIPAA compliant with POW box. Use code Abundant to get Paubox for less than $100 your first year at P A U B O X. Let's stay compliant. If you're listening, you probably need some support building your practice. If you're a super newbie, grab our free checklist using the link in the Show Notes. I'd love for you to follow rate and review, but I really want you to share this episode with a therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.