Episode #632 Reticent Client Niche

Summary

Abundant Practice Podcast - Episode #632: Reticent Client Niche

Release Date: March 26, 2025
Host: Allison Puryear

Introduction

In Episode #632 of the Abundant Practice Podcast, host Allison Puryear delves deep into the intricate process of defining and articulating a niche for therapists aiming to build sustainable and fulfilling private practices. This episode features a comprehensive live coaching session between Allison and an anonymous therapist client, focusing on refining the client's Ideal Client Avatar (ICA) to enhance their practice's effectiveness and reach.

Defining the Ideal Client Avatar (ICA)

The central theme of this episode revolves around helping therapists precisely define their ICA. Allison emphasizes that a well-defined niche unlocks numerous aspects of practice building, including marketing strategies, networking, and service offerings.

Characteristics of the Ideal Client

The client outlines a niche centered around "strategy savvy, emotionally avoidant businessmen." They elaborate that their ideal clients are not necessarily business owners but are often individuals in high-earning, extroverted roles such as C-suite executives. These clients are likened to a version of John Mulaney—well put together on the surface but struggling with underlying relational issues.

Notable Quote:
“Your ICA ideal client would kind of remind me a little bit of John Mulaney, like, or a version of him. Like, he’s very, like, you would think he is very well put together. But if you take even a small peek into his relational life, like...”
— Unknown Client [06:22]

Emotional and Relational Challenges

The ideal clients are depicted as confident individuals who, despite their outward success, face significant relational challenges. They often grapple with being perceived as narcissistic by their ex-partners, which the client uses to highlight their internal confusion and lack of courage in forming genuine connections.

Notable Quote:
“They understand that before you. Before you explain that to them. If you were to say that exact phrase to somebody who has never talked to you, would they see themselves in that?”
— Unknown Client [13:58]

Motivations for Seeking Therapy

The discussion explores various motivations that lead these men to seek therapy. Often, it is through external pressures such as relationship breakdowns or encouragement from partners rather than a personal acknowledgment of needing help. This external motivation can sometimes hinder their commitment to the therapeutic process.

Notable Quote:
“People have worked with have come there because their partner's like, you're a mess. Like, which is okay. But that external motivation can sometimes get in the way, depending.”
— Unknown Client [09:07]

Marketing and Networking Strategies

Allison guides the client in crafting compelling messaging that resonates with their target audience. The focus is on balancing the portrayal of their clients' strengths with the acknowledgment of their vulnerabilities. The goal is to attract clients who are likable and affable but are confused and in need of guidance rather than those with entrenched narcissistic traits.

Notable Quote:
“It's like, especially. I'm on a tear with this, too. Also, I think something because of my internal work. But, like, the amount that these guys have been hurt by women and marginalized by women...”
— Unknown Client [22:32]

Overcoming Stigmas and Stereotypes

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the stigmas associated with therapy, especially among men in high-powered roles. The client expresses concern over how to position therapy in a way that aligns with their clients' self-perception and societal expectations of masculinity.

Notable Quote:
“But I would have to define what courage and confidence are. And if I did that, it might ding something. Yeah. Because they are. Oh, my God. They're like some of the most confident people I've ever met. But, like, it's...”
— Unknown Client [14:10]

Practical Applications and Next Steps

Towards the end of the session, Allison and the client brainstorm practical steps to solidify the niche. This includes identifying secondary service providers that their ideal clients might engage with, such as sports massage therapists or executive coaches, to better understand their clients' environments and stressors.

Notable Quote:
“They might be sports massage therapists because they're stressed, they're tense, and they're probably chalking it up to like a golfing injury or something like that.”
— Unknown Speaker [25:23]

Insights and Takeaways

1. Clear Niche Definition is Crucial: Precisely defining the ICA helps in tailoring marketing messages, networking efforts, and service offerings to attract the right clients.
2. Balancing Strengths and Vulnerabilities: Highlighting both the strengths and the challenges of the ideal client creates a relatable and accountable portrayal.
3. Addressing Stigmas: Positioning therapy in a way that aligns with clients' self-image and societal roles can mitigate resistance and encourage engagement.
4. Understanding External Motivations: Recognizing the external factors that drive clients to seek therapy can inform more empathetic and effective therapeutic approaches.

Conclusion

Episode #632 provides invaluable insights into the nuanced process of defining a therapeutic niche. Through a detailed coaching session, Allison Puryear equips therapists with the strategies to identify and articulate their ideal clients effectively. By focusing on the balance between portraying clients' strengths and addressing their vulnerabilities, therapists can create more meaningful connections and foster sustainable, joy-filled private practices.

For therapists looking to refine their niche and build a thriving practice, this episode serves as an essential guide. Alison's expert guidance underscores the importance of understanding client motivations, overcoming stigmas, and implementing targeted marketing strategies to attract and retain ideal clients.

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Resources Mentioned:

• Abundance Practice Building: www.abundancepracticebuilding.com
• Abundance Party Membership Program: www.abundanceparty.com

Connect with Allison:

For more support in building your practice, join the Facebook community or email the team at [e-mail].

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If you found this summary helpful, please consider sharing it with a fellow therapist to help them build an abundant practice.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker]

Foreign.

[Alison]

Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practice building.com Links all right, onto the show so I've talked about therapy notes on here for years. I could talk about the features and the benefits in my sleep. But there are a couple things I.

[Unknown Speaker]

Want you to know about Therapy notes.

[Alison]

That doesn't typically make it into an ad script. First is that they actually care if you like their platform. They don't only make themselves available on the phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your hair out when you get stuck. They also take member suggestions and implement those that there's client demand for. Like Therapy Search, an included listing service that helps clients find you internal and external secure messaging Clinical outcome measures to keep an eye on how your clients are progressing A super smooth super bill process Real time eligibility to check on your client's insurance. In my conversations with the employees there at all levels, they all really believe in their product and they want you to love it too. Second, they are proudly independently owned. Why should you care about that? Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved, the focus shifts from making customers happy to making investors happy. Prices go way up. Innovation plateaus. Making more money with as little output as possible becomes the number one focus. With over 100,000 therapists using their platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful and they don't have to sacrifice your experience to stay there. You can try two months [e-mail] with the coupon code Abundant.

[Unknown Speaker]

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[Alison]

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[Unknown Speaker]

How you doing?

[Unknown Client]

Doing well. It's so good to meet you. Like, I've seen so many of your videos, so I feel like I know you a little bit already. But I am always so excited to a name and a face together in real time. Yay.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm excited to talk to you. What would be most helpful today?

[Unknown Client]

So I made a Google Doc that outlines some things, but I can also just tell you a little bit about where I'm at. So I think most helpful would be figuring out how to word my niche. Like I think I know who my niche is. My brain just can't. It can't word like it can't quite figure out how to word it. So I can talk expertly about it when I network. And so that would be my second just ideas about network networking and then if we have time, some marketing strategy. I'm working with Jen Fredette who has helped me a ton. Oh my gosh. And she also speaks so highly of you, by the way. So she was like, go. She was like, go, go, go talk to Alison. But basically what I've also figured out is I really need to. Well, need to slash also want to. It's kind of both need to rebrand because my old brand is like it. That person, that human is still amazing. And that is not. That's not how I want to watch anymore.

[Unknown Speaker]

Got it. Yeah. Well, let's start with getting the words around your ideal client so that.

[Alison]

Because that's going to unlock everything else.

[Unknown Speaker]

So let's, let's start there.

[Alison]

Tell me.

[Unknown Speaker]

And this can be messy and disparate. All of that is fine. But just like throw information at me about who you really want to work with.

[Unknown Client]

Yes. So kind of the statements I have right now are working with strategy savvy, emotionally avoidant businessmen. Not that they have to be businessmen. That's just where I see it a lot. So I'll read you some copy that I wrote for Jen this week about this. Says you're pretty confident you're a good guy, but all your exes would say you're a narcissist. Spoiler Narcissists never worry about fucking up the way you do. So let's be clear. You're not a narcissist. You're just confused as fuck. And I know you've got a heart under all your bullshit. I think you do, too. And that's kind of what I specialize in. That brings you clarity without destroying you.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Unknown Client]

And so, yeah, it's. I am so tired of working with people, pleasing women, and this feels like more. Like, much more. They just cannot handle my directness, and I'm really fucking direct. And I'm like, no, this is not my niche anymore because I've grown to be less direct. Sorry.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, yeah. When you want to show up as your. As yourself, you know, like, you want to be able to use all the tools that you have, and being direct is one of them. It's not easy for all of us. And I think a lot of us who are not as good at being direct often like the people pleasing women, you know, you want to call people on their shit. I get that. You mentioned businessmen. Are these business owners? Are the C Suite execs? Are these blue collar, put your head down and do your work and don't complain kind of guys? Like, who are we talking about?

[Unknown Client]

So I'm basing it loosely on some folks I've worked with. So they're not always business owners, but they're in, like, a very extroverted business that makes them a lot of money. So I could totally see, like, C suite guys. The guy, like. So I like to attach, like, celebrities sometimes to my ica. So my ICA ideal client would kind of remind me a little bit of John Mulaney, like, or a version of him. Like, he's very, like, you would think he is very well put together. But if you take even a small peek into his relational life, like.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like, are you wanting the substance abuse that goes with John Mulaney or.

[Unknown Client]

No, not that hardcore. Like, I do love working with addiction, but it's like. And I. I think I'm really good at it. But as, like, a solo practitioner, there's only so much I can do. So if someone is like, you know, because a lot of my clients do use alcohol and pot, like, on a regular basis, totally fine with that. But when it, like, starts going to, like, oh, my gosh, like, you need, like, impatience or, like, something like that, I'm not sure I would want to work with someone who has, like, just come out from, like, in patient care, for example. So, yes, and I don't want to Be like, I do not want that to be my first advertising point. Also because the guys I've worked with, that's not what they're like that they're probably minimizing it a good. Definitely like, not why they're connecting with me.

[Unknown Speaker]

Like, so I'm thinking I'm in a mastermind with a bunch of business owners and there are a lot of guys who are on the other side of this. So they're guys who went into therapy like that and have come out or are still in and are in touch with their feelings and having really beautiful open conversations. So they've done a lot of the work, but they did not start out there.

[Unknown Client]

Those are the people I want to see. People that excite me the most. I'm like, oh my gosh. I can see, see what you're doing. Let me like, let me help you out. Like, life does not have to be this painful. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

So I'm thinking your person has a very extroverted role. Right. So like sales, these kinds of things. Probably, yes. He's probably also ties a lot of his self worth to his success, his financial success.

[Unknown Client]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm trying to imagine the before of all these really wonderful men that I now know. The before version of them that I probably would hear about in my sessions with the women who would have dated them. Okay, here's my question. What is it that's going on in their life that makes them be like, I need help.

[Unknown Client]

So I've been thinking about that a lot because that's like, I think also for networking, I'm like, who do these guys see? Because, you know, men are not great at seeking out like their own medical care. Like, I mean, the stats are like really dismal. Not that that's something I would necessarily share with them out the gate. Like secret handshake inside. It's like, oh my gosh. So people have worked with, have come there because their partner's like, you're a mess. Like, which is okay. But that external motivation can sometimes get in the way, depending. So I'm like, I've been trying to think. I'm like, what the hell would hit a. For all intents and purposes, like a straight white man to go to therapy. Like, what would be so bad? And I keep landing on, well, like, they can't keep relationships or the relationship they have is really terrible. So in that case, their partners might be referring to them or like referring them to therapy. To me, these are also the guys that they might be in couples counseling, but not necessarily like I'm not sure they'd even be bought in enough to try that. It. Yeah, I'm waffling on that a little bit. They might go see psychiatrists. It was my thought, too, because that's like a more manageable, slightly less stigmatized. I mean, not really, but kind of.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Unknown Client]

And it also means they don't have to necessarily do their own internal work.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right. And they can say it's just this biological problem.

[Unknown Client]

Right, exactly. So that's like kind of what comes up my brain. I'm sure we'll have other ideas, but that's what's there right now.

[Unknown Speaker]

Got it, got it. But I'm hearing it's. It's most likely kind of a twisted arm situation within a relationship or realizing at some point they do want to settle down. And, like, they've either been divorced a couple times or had huge major breakups or there's something romantically that is not working for them or relationally that's not working.

[Unknown Client]

Yes, absolutely.

[Unknown Speaker]

Are they pretty charismatic?

[Unknown Client]

Yes. Like, and not. And it's weird, right? Like, I was looking back through some of my intakes with, like, guys I've worked with, and, like, what they said their strengths was like, also, because I was like, my brain was just curious, but I was like, no, no, this could actually be helpful too. And the one I'm thinking of, friendsly friendly, open salesmanship, compromising. Which also, if he was here, I would tell him that was not one of his strengths. I'm like, that's getting you in trouble. So, yeah, I would say yes. But they're also like, Jen and I talked some about how we potentially think my ICA might, like, actually think they're kind of a narcissist. Like, or might be afraid of that, but they're totally not. Like, the real deal is so much different. Like, they're not as bad off as they think they are.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right. And real narcissists aren't worried about being narcissists.

[Unknown Client]

So I've been on a bender with that word this week because I'm kind of upset about, like, how it gets thrown around so much and, like, does it really. Anyway, that's my. It's been helping me ica, though. So good news with that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. I think the tricky part is if you're talking about people who wonder if they're narcissists, you might end up actually getting some. Or people who are actually, like, more on the spectrum of narcissism than you want. So I think we're going to have to Create, I think about them, like, the bumpers on a bowling alley.

[Alison]

Like, we might want to create some.

[Unknown Speaker]

Bumpers that keep them from going the wrong way. Like, some. Some things that opt these people out. Like, some of the more tender parts that your guy is able to acknowledge that maybe somebody crossing the line of narcissism that you don't want to work with wouldn't be able to acknowledge.

[Unknown Client]

Yes, I'm all bumpers. I don't want to actually work with real narcissists. I mean, one, I'm not sure if anyone really can. But two, like, I especially do not want to.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, yeah. And so I think leaning into what you wrote, some of your exes would maybe call you a narcissist and maybe going a little harder on, like, the worry they have about that. Like, describing, you know, maybe somebody called them that once, and they have gone through all of their relationships in their mind to find evidence for or against being a narcissist. Like, some of them mental or emotional work they're doing around it because it's so abhorrent to them. So your people are likely very confident in certain spaces.

[Unknown Client]

Yes, I would say they're very confident, but they don't have courage.

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, I love that distinction.

[Unknown Client]

And it's a great fit.

[Unknown Speaker]

They understand that before you. Before you explain that to them. If you were to say that exact phrase to somebody who has never talked to you, would they see themselves in that?

[Unknown Client]

I. I think I would have to define what courage and confidence are. And if I did that, it might ding something. Yeah. Because they are. Oh, my God. They're like some of the most confident people I've ever met. But, like, it's. They can't trust anyone. Like, they can't be, like, for a lot of reasons. If I explain the difference between confidence and courage, I think potentially it could land, I think, like, the statement in and of itself. They might just be like, whatever.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. I think you could say, like, you're confident in so many areas and maybe bullet point those out. And yet these things scare the shit out of you. I have bullet points for those things. Those more tender things.

[Unknown Client]

Yes. No, that's a great.

[Unknown Speaker]

I love that.

[Unknown Client]

Oh, good. Compare and contrast. And I have, like, a list of what scares the shit out of them, so that will work really well.

[Unknown Speaker]

Awesome.

[Unknown Client]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

When I'm thinking of your guy, like, bullet points work for him. You know what I mean? Like, he doesn't want to read a poem about it.

[Unknown Client]

Oh, my gosh. And I don't want to write a poem about it. So that. Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay. So as I'm, like, it's all coalescing in my head. It's hard when they're not really there because they want to be. Like, they're there to pacify a partner or they're there to. So I'm trying to think of, like, how to spin that.

[Unknown Client]

Yeah, me too. Me too. Because, yeah, the folks I have worked with, it's also kind of easier to work with people who are single. Not that I can't work with people who are in partnerships, but I also have no. I'm like, oh, my gosh. I didn't have time to, like, go through training and credentialing of couples therapy right now, like, or the money. And so I've been kind of chewing on that, too. And the only, like, the best I've come up with so far is like, like, again, thinking about who else they might go to who's kind of either in our field or field adjacent. And, like, psychiatrists maybe, like, will, like, massage or stuff like that. But, like, also me is like, no, they don't. I'm not 110%. Well, I guess it depends on which version of this particular character. But I'm also, like, I'm not sure how seriously they take their health overall. And so that's something for me to consider, because I'm like, no, that'd be good to know if they take their health and wellness seriously or not.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right. What stresses them out on a weekly basis?

[Unknown Client]

If they're with a partner, they're, like, always thinking about, like, oh, my gosh, what am I gonna up next? I already have up. Like, it's interesting to. In my experience, a lot of the guys I've worked with, the partners they pick are actually pretty toxic, but they don't recognize it. So if they're partnered, that's, like, kind of all they're stressing out about. If they're not partnered, That's a great question. Like, I know I know this, but my Brit, like, because I have gone over this way too many times. If they're not partnered, then that's it. Family of origin stuff. They wouldn't name it. Like, that's not why any of these guys come. Or they wouldn't say family of origin. That's just therapy speak. But, like, typically, they have really dysfunctional families that are still currently dysfunctional. So parents are using substances or they're often, like, usually alcohol or they're divorced. They don't know how to set boundaries with it. So it's like anxious about going to see mom, knowing she's going to be a shithead, but knowing there's also like nothing you can do about it. So I would say that and, or potentially like, I wouldn't say totally existential crisis, but something bordering on that of maybe those, these like fleeting moments where they're like, with their buddies, they're playing golf, drinking, right. Whatever it is they're doing and they're like, is this it? Is this really it? Like, and that's not counting the 99 of the time where they're like, you know, self indulgence, which they're really good at. I don't know if they would name it that way and I've got ideas about how they would speak about that. But yeah, it's just like, yes, it's this, there's this, I almost say like youthfulness and not like in a bit like, not in a bad way. But it's like they were never taught how to really step into their roles. They don't really know what their role is. And if you're confused about your role, you can't step into it to begin with.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right. And I wonder copy wise if it could be something like, you know, if you're being really honest, you've been pretty self indulgent in a lot of ways and it still doesn't make you any happier.

[Unknown Client]

Yeah, boy, do my people need to hear that. And as I've been doing the know your niche or niche, either way pronounce, who knows what the real meaning of life is anymore. I don't know that. Yeah, my guys definitely need, need to hear that and it definitely shows up in their spending habits. Again, that's not like something I don't think they would, but I mean the guys I've worked with, like, I mean they can afford like easily afford my private pay fee. Like they love traveling. Like golf ball golf is the big one, right? Like these really social and experiential activities that might get some dopamine going but like it doesn't last. So that's actually I'm remembering, I'm like, oh no, no. I could maybe give some concrete examples of that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I'm thinking of. It's funny because you seem so very different from your ideal client. There just seems to be, I don't know, just an intuitive difference from my perspective. And so often our niches are ourselves at a different time in life. And so I'm, I keep trying to like pull parts of you into the niche and I'm like, no, no, no, that's not. That's not him. So I'm thinking about this niche that so many people have with women of, like, everything looks great on the outside, but inside, like, you mentioned this earlier, like, inside you're crumbling. And I think there's this piece of him that can acknowledge he's likable, he's charismatic, and underneath all that, he often feels like a piece of shit.

[Unknown Client]

Yeah, I think that's very true. And also in my experience, and he. Gosh, it was some line I watched in. Oh, it was the Holiday, which. That movie. Oh, my gosh, I'd never seen it, and it was. So. I had problems with it, but I also really loved it. But, yeah, the Jude Law talking about, like, it just seems to be that, like, I hurt women by being myself. And now my guys do not cry as much as Jude Law. Jude Law in that movie has somehow, like, created this. I don't know how they did. Like, I kind of want to talk to the writers of this, but I think that's, like, there's a version of that in my ica. You might not acknowledge it very much. You might not even know that's what it is. But that core. Sorry, I've got Jen for debt speak in my mind because we're working on so much of this. But that core, like, why do I keep hurting people? I'm just being myself. I don't understand.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. So I wonder if it's like, you work with guys who feel like deep down they're good guys, but they keep hurting people and they don't understand why.

[Unknown Client]

Yes. And I guess the other. I'm smiling, thinking about the other part, too, is like, yes, they actually are doing some damage, but, like, no one's willing to be kind to them about that. Not nice.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right?

[Unknown Client]

But, like. And I would never, on. I don't think on my website mention anything about the patriarchy or all that stuff, because I think my guys tend to be more conservative.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Unknown Client]

And also, they don't know what that means. And I'm still trying to figure out what that means. So I'm like, no, no, none of that. But, yeah, you go, like, especially. I'm on a tear with this, too. Also, I think something because of my internal work. But, like, the amount that these guys have been hurt by women and marginalized by women, and so they think feminism is, like, being shut down. Like, by trying to express their opinions now, again, they are doing damage, but no one's being willing to, like, hang with them in that.

[Unknown Speaker]

It seems like, yeah, And I think that's the quick and dirty, like, niche statement is like, men who are good people but keep hurting others. And then there's an opportunity to, like, explain that, like, you're not talking about antisocial guys. You're not talking about, you know, maybe you say, like, instead of good people, they're like likable, affable guys who keep hurting people they care about.

[Unknown Client]

Yeah, I like that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Because then it lends some of the goodness. It like, defines some of the goodness in them while also creating some accountability or culpability. Maybe that bothers them, that gets under their skin because they keep either pushing people to dump them or being the dumper. They keep putting other people last in their own drive for success or whatever first because it's tied to their identity, not because they're jerks.

[Unknown Client]

Right. So, yes, and that is something that, Gosh, I mean, I just wish I could, like, I would love to talk to people about that all day about, like, how these guys are not idiots and they're not jerks. They just look like jerks and they look like idiots because they're really confused. Need some help?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, yeah. It's like not a willful insensitivity. It's like an ignorant insensitivity, right?

[Unknown Client]

Yes. And I think there is such a difference because I think with ignorant sensitivity, there's still common heart. And you can't really get that with like, someone who's like, you know, like, totally. Maybe like, like, you cannot get that with a narcissist. That's for sure.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right.

[Unknown Client]

I'm not sure they have them part, so that's probably debatable.

[Unknown Speaker]

But so then when we think about who they go to, I imagine these might be the guys who are getting massages every week because they are stressed, they are tense, and they're probably chalking it up to like a golfing injury or something like that. And so it's probably sports massage. It's probably something a lot more, I don't know, masculine or something like that, as opposed to, like the floaty, airy, like, spa massage that I might prefer.

[Unknown Client]

You know, that makes so much sense because I was trying to figure that out. I'm like, they probably do, but I'm like, I just cannot see them going to, like, a traditional massage therapist because it's too, like, woo. Like, I mean, among other things, it's too woo. It's too feminine. Like, take your pick. Like, it's too. Too everything.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. So going towards the things that are traditionally masculine in our culture, they're probably there imagining, like, these are the grown up frat guys, right?

[Unknown Client]

Yes, more or less. I'm smiling to myself. I'm like, they're not total airheads. Like, so because I think of frat guys, I'm like, oh, my gosh, you guys. I would never be able to work with someone who is in that actual state, like a college student or something like that. I'm like, no, like, you have not reached a point one where you can afford my services. But to like, you're too, like, life is not impacting you in a real way relationally yet where we can do that work.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right, right.

[Unknown Client]

But yeah, no, like sportsman's. Ah, that's such a good goal. I would not have thought of that. I'm like, yes, that is one of the answers I've been, like, looking for.

[Unknown Speaker]

And the tough part is, I think about, like, a sports massage therapist. There's a risk they're taking in saying, I think therapy might be helpful for you. Right. Because there is. There's that stigma around therapy for this group. I think of it kind of almost like if there was an executive coaching lens of, like, you can perform better if you get this junk out of your way. Like, there's all this stuff you haven't talked about. And this is, this is what reminds me of all my mastermind guys is most of them got into therapy more because they wanted to perform better. And so it might be one of those. I mean, the truth is they will perform better. We all perform better when we're through the hard parts of clearing out our own stuff. So I think you could kind of insinuate, like, look, we all know, everybody knows this, that hard things happen, that parents are always what we want or need them to be, that we repeat patterns. Like, we all know this and how that's impacting you at work. Maybe you're working harder than you actually need to to get the same results. Maybe you're trying to think of, I keep coming back to these guys that I love so much. All the guys that I know that fit this bill are all still trying to impress their dads.

[Unknown Client]

Gosh, that makes so much sense. Yes. That's something I would work with them on.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Unknown Client]

Also given the generational differences. Anyway, sorry, I'm excited hearing about that. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I got you.

[Unknown Speaker]

I have another call I have to hop on. But I hope that that gives you a good, like, jumping off point. And if you're in our Facebook community, then post anything in there. And I'll hop in and we can go from here.

[Unknown Client]

Perfect. That sounds awesome. Thank you, Alison.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, it was great to meet you. Bye.

[Alison]

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