Episode #651: First Phone Calls

Summary

Abundant Practice Podcast - Episode #651: First Phone Calls

Release Date: May 21, 2025
Host: Allison Puryear

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In Episode #651 of the Abundant Practice Podcast, host Allison Puryear delves into the intricacies of handling first phone calls in a private therapy practice. Joined by Meredith and Jasmine, the conversation offers valuable insights into conducting effective consultation calls, managing client schedules, and implementing successful marketing strategies to build a thriving practice. Below is a detailed summary of the episode, highlighting key discussions, strategies, and actionable advice.

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1. Mastering Consultation Calls

One of the central themes of the episode revolves around conducting successful consultation calls with potential clients. Allison emphasizes the importance of validating clients' experiences and steering the conversation towards scheduling appointments without making the call feel like an interview.

Key Points:

• Validation as a Trust Builder: Allison advises therapists to acknowledge the challenges clients are facing to establish trust. She shares, “This sounds like a lot. This has been clearly really hard for you” (07:10).

• Guiding the Conversation: Instead of letting clients dominate the conversation, therapists should gently steer them towards scheduling. “If somebody is kind of like off to the races and they're talking and talking and you're trying to get in a word...I want to be like, what brings you in to therapy” (07:30).

• Limiting Scheduling Options: To avoid overwhelming clients or appearing unavailable, Allison recommends offering only two to three available time slots. “Even if you've got a lot of space in your calendar, I don't want you to be like, I have these 73 times this week because nobody wants to see me” (08:00).

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2. Overcoming Insurance Barriers

Jasmine highlights challenges related to verifying insurance during consultation calls, which can create delays and obstacles in scheduling. Allison provides strategies to streamline this process.

Key Points:

• Proactive Scheduling: Instead of waiting for clients to confirm insurance, Allison suggests setting tentative appointments with a follow-up: “Let's go ahead and get you set up for early next week and in between now and then call your insurance” (10:10).

• Staff Support: Meredith adds that having a dedicated team member to verify insurance can alleviate the burden on therapists: “We have a medical biller who verifies benefits. You can just say, send me a copy of your cards, and we'll get back to you” (12:20).

• Clear Communication: Encourage clients to provide necessary insurance information upfront to expedite the process. “We can take care of that for you” (12:50).

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3. Managing Client Schedules with Bi-Weekly Appointments

Balancing a caseload with both weekly and bi-weekly clients can be challenging. Allison and Jasmine discuss strategies to optimize scheduling to ensure a steady workflow without overextending.

Key Points:

• Stacking Appointments: Allison recommends grouping bi-weekly appointments on specific days and times to create predictable patterns. “Like Tuesdays at 2 are your times where you have bi-weekly people” (16:30).

• Maintaining Availability for Weekly Clients: By organizing bi-weekly clients in a structured manner, therapists can maintain open slots for weekly appointments, ensuring consistent income and client progress.

• Strategic Shifting: Allow flexibility by shifting bi-weekly appointments to accommodate new weekly clients without disrupting the entire schedule. “Having them fill in for each other really makes a big difference” (17:00).

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4. Effective Marketing Strategies: Networking and Building Relationships

Allison underscores the significance of networking and relationship-building as paramount marketing strategies, especially in an era dominated by large therapy platforms.

Key Points:

• Importance of Relationships: “What big therapy tech cannot mimic is relationships” (17:40). Building genuine connections with other therapists and professionals remains a cornerstone for referrals and sustained client influx.

• Local Engagement: Engage with local therapist communities and participate in networking events to increase visibility and trust within the community.

• Online Relationships: For remote practices, utilize platforms like Zoom to foster relationships, ensuring that geographic barriers do not impede networking efforts.

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5. Defining and Communicating Your Niche

A recurring theme is the importance of identifying and clearly defining a therapist’s niche to attract ideal clients and avoid burnout.

Key Points:

• Self-Reflection on Client Preferences: Encourage therapists to introspect on the types of clients they enjoy working with. Meredith suggests asking, “Tell me about your favorite client and what is it about them?” (18:30).

• Specificity Enhances Attraction: Allison advises adding demographic or presentation-specific details to niches to make them more relatable. “Finding a demographic/specificity to add to it to make it really pop” (24:30).

• Avoiding Burnout: A well-defined niche helps in managing emotional energy and ensuring that therapists feel fulfilled rather than overwhelmed. “It's a really great recipe for burnout to not have a niche” (19:40).

• Communicating the Niche in Bios: Tailor professional bios to reflect specific client challenges and presentations, enhancing the likelihood that potential clients feel understood and compelled to reach out. “When people have read my bio on the website...they have a moment of trust” (25:00).

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6. Actionable Takeaways and Practical Tips

Throughout the episode, Allison and her guests share practical advice that therapists can implement immediately to improve their practice operations and client interactions.

Key Takeaways:

• Keep Consultation Calls Client-Focused: Prioritize understanding and validating the client's needs over discussing your qualifications extensively.

• Streamline Insurance Processes: Utilize staff resources to handle insurance verifications, reducing friction during the scheduling process.

• Organize Schedules Deliberately: Implement scheduling strategies like stacking to balance weekly and bi-weekly clients effectively.

• Invest in Networking: Cultivate relationships within the therapist community to foster referrals and mutual support.

• Clearly Define Your Niche: Identify and articulate your specialty areas to attract the right clients and maintain personal and professional satisfaction.

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Notable Quotes

• “This sounds like a lot. This has been clearly really hard for you.” – Allison (07:10)

• “I have the same people at the same time and day. It's easier for them to arrange their schedule.” – Allison (16:30)

• “What big therapy tech cannot mimic is relationships.” – Allison (17:40)

• “It's a really great recipe for burnout to not have a niche.” – Allison (19:40)

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Conclusion

Episode #651 of the Abundant Practice Podcast offers a wealth of knowledge for therapists aiming to refine their consultation calls, optimize their schedules, and implement effective marketing strategies. By focusing on client-centered communication, leveraging team support for administrative tasks, and defining a clear niche, therapists can build sustainable and fulfilling private practices. Allison Puryear's insights, backed by practical examples and collaborative discussions with Meredith and Jasmine, provide actionable steps for therapists at any stage of their practice journey.

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Resources Mentioned:

• Abundance Party Membership Program: Step-by-step guidance on building a private practice. www.abundanceparty.com

• Free Private Practice Checklist and Worksheets: www.abundancepracticebuilding.com

• Contact for Support: [e-mail]

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Note: This summary excludes promotional content, advertisements, and non-content sections to focus solely on the valuable discussions and insights shared during the episode.

Transcript

[Alison]

Foreign hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practice building.com Links all right, onto the show so I've talked about therapy notes on here for years. I could talk about the features and the benefits in my sleep. But there are a couple things I want you to know about Therapy notes that doesn't typically make it into an ad script. First is that they actually care if you like their platform. They don't only make themselves available on the phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your hair out when you get stuck. They also take member suggestions and implement those that there's client demand for. Like Therapy Search, an included listing service that helps clients find you internal and external secure messaging Clinical outcome measures to keep an eye on how your clients are progressing A super smooth super bill process Real time eligibility to check on your client's insurance. In my conversations with the employees there at all levels, they all really believe in their product and they want you to love it too. Second, they are proudly independently owned. Why should you care about that? Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved, the focus shifts from making customers happy to making investors happy. Prices go way up. Innovation plateaus. Making more money with as little output as possible becomes the number one focus. With over 100,000 therapists using their platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful and they don't have to sacrifice your experience to stay there. You can try two months [e-mail] with the coupon code Abundant Some of y' all aren't sending HIPAA compliant email and it's a problem. Even if you're paying for a business Google Workspace account and have a signed BAA, your emails still aren't 100% compliant. That's where Palbox comes in. You can connect Palbox to your Google Workspace or Microsoft 365 email one time and you're completely covered. No one has to sign into portals. It sends and it shows up like any other email. Behind the scenes. Pow box software checks the security settings of the recipient and ensures that the email is sent properly so you're not violating HIPAA and the ways accidentally be. Now I know HIPAA isn't sexy, but we don't avoid compliance. In an abundant practice, we check the boxes we need to check. And this is the easiest way to do that with email. Check out my [e-mail]. that's P A U B O X. Use code abundant to get $250 off your first year of Palbox. That makes it less than a hundred dollars for your first year. Again, that's P A U B O x dot com. Use code abundant.

[Meredith]

Hi.

[Alison]

Hey, Meredith. How you doing? I'm good. How are you? Good. Yeah.

[Meredith]

I was just. I was just listening to Russell Barkley's little series that you sent.

[Alison]

Oh, good.

[Meredith]

We have a. A kiddo with severe ADHD as well. And he's saying, and you're trying to, you know, you're trying to do multiple things all at once. And I'm like, you're right. I'm trying to check my email, I'm trying to listen to this thing, and it's not working. And very called out. So my big goal for today is actually, would it be possible to have my employee Jasmine join us?

[Alison]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Meredith]

She's had her confidence shaken a smidge just with some consultation calls. She might need a little pep talk on finding her niche because she's new, she's provisionally licensed, and. And just, like, how to confidently, you know, approach a. A consultation call. I know one of the things we talked, I coached her on was, like, not. And she was doing something that I used to do when I was not feeling really confident, which is to say, do you want to think about it and then I'll reach back out to you? No, you want to, you know, like, approach it from. They want therapy and, like, to get you on the schedule. Yeah, so I, I sent her the invite. I don't know.

[Alison]

She just popped up. She's in the waiting room, so I can pop her in. Absolutely. I'll do it right now. Hey, Jasmine. Hi, I'm Allison.

[Jasmine]

Hi. Nice to meet you.

[Alison]

Nice to meet you, too. So I'm excited to dig in. It sounds like maybe some niche help and some consult call support. Is that going to be helpful for you?

[Jasmine]

Yeah, yeah, I think so. I'm kind of just with consultation calls I've been going off of just like, a general guideline that I kind of made up for myself. And so I wanted to see. Yeah. If there's a better way to go about it, especially with just like, wrapping up the call, too.

[Alison]

Awesome. Yeah. So I can kind of share the way that I've done it that works and, like, give you any words, like Take any words that work and this can be recorded and Meredith can get you the recording if that makes it easier too. So.

[Jasmine]

Okay.

[Meredith]

She phrases things very well. You have a way with words for sure.

[Alison]

Yay. So basically I'll say like, you know, tell me a little bit about why you're coming in to therapy, like what's going on in life. And people will tell. Some people will tell you, like the 45 minute version if you let them, you know, because, like, everything feels really relevant and I totally understand that. And for those people, that's why I say a little bit about what's going on for you, because it kind of sets. There's a frame there for them. And then some people will be like, I've just been sad lately. It's like, okay, let's get a little more. So if somebody is kind of like off to the races and they're talking and talking and you're trying to get it a word in edgewise. What I usually say to get in is like, this sounds like a lot. This has been clearly really hard for you. So, like validating them because what clients. Clients are calling to make an appointment. And that's what I really want everybody to understand about consultation calls. They're not really calling to interview you. Like, if I've got a mole that needs looking at, I'm not calling the dermatologist and like wanting to chit chat about it too much. Like, I want to make an appointment. And that's how most of our people come in. Every now and then we have somebody shopping for a therapist, which I also think is fine. But most of the time this is the step they're getting through because they need to in order to make an appointment, which can help with confidence at the end of the call, if you keep that in mind so I'll validate. Like, this sounds like it's been a lot for you. So if what they're talking, assuming what they're talking about is within my wheelhouse, it's something I know I can help them with, then I'll say it sounds to me, based on what you've said, like, we'll take panic attacks, for example. Somebody's talking about these panic attacks they're having. It sounds to me like you're struggling with a lot of anxiety, potentially anxiety attacks. This is something I have a lot of experience with and I, from my perspective, it feels like it'd be a really good fit. What questions do you have for me to see if I'm a good fit for you. And most of the time us just like sitting there on the phone listening to them and validating them already has them trusting us. Because this isn't the first they've heard of us. Most of the time they've seen you on the website, they've checked you out before. And so often it's like, I mean, I feel good. It's fine to go ahead. And then I'll say, awesome, let's look at the schedule. I've got these times available. Which of these work for you? And I usually only give two to three times. Even if you've got a lot of space in your calendar, I don't want you to be like, I have these 73 times this week because nobody wants to see me. We don't want to give that impression.

[Meredith]

Smart.

[Alison]

So you give them the times and if they're like, oh, I can't do any of those, then I'll say, like, what's your availability? Let me see if there's something that I can make work. I'm not working outside of my work hours, but if I do happen to have a space I didn't tell them about, then that gives the opportunity to fill that. Yeah, they really do want to make this appointment with you, Jasmine. They're not wanting to quiz you or anything like that. They want help and you're the person they want to see.

[Jasmine]

Yeah, that's a good point. I think where I can struggle is, like, since we do take insurance, just wanting to make sure that that all lines up for them. But then that's kind of where I can struggle with the waiting time because I did switch verbiage as of last week, because previously I was just, like, sending them the code so that they could check with insurance and make sure that payments were going to be okay for them. But last week I did start just asking, you know, how do you feel about moving forward? And then I did have, you know, a couple people that were good to move forward, but then a couple that did want to look into insurance before scheduling anything. But then, yeah, I wanted to ask you too, like, how often should I follow up? Because then I, I feel, I don't know, like I. I follow up a couple of times, but then I don't want to overdo it too.

[Alison]

I think a couple of times is good. But I want to go back to something you said about having them check on their insurance. I'd flip it because if I need to call my insurance, I'm going to take forever to call them. I'm going to do it, like three Weeks from now, maybe even if I'm really motivated in a lot of other ways. So what I have found helpful is to say let's go ahead and get you set up for early next week and in between now and then call your insurance, make sure that that works. And if it doesn't for any reason, you just give me a call back and cancel. Just make sure you do it before Friday if we're scheduling for Monday.

[Jasmine]

Gotcha. Yeah, that's a good idea. So like set the appointment and then. Yeah, if it doesn't work out, then we can cancel.

[Alison]

Yeah. And that way then they have a timeline. Like if I have a deadline that I have to call my insurance, then I'll do it. But if it's like, yeah, just check it out and give me a call back, I'm not getting help for a while or I'm finding a practice that will do it for me.

[Meredith]

Yeah, yeah. And, and this is Jasmine. We do have the ability to verify their insurance. And if you're like, right, I don't want to put anything on them. You know, I want to make this as easy as possible for them to get on my schedule. Like we can offer that and Chris is doing most of that work for us. We have a medical biller who verifies benefits. You know, you can just say, hey, just send me a copy of your cards, I'll put it in the system. And, and anything we can do to make it easier on them. It sounds like would be a helpful. Take some, some of those obstacles out of getting them on your schedule.

[Alison]

Yeah, yeah. And some ehrs also have like instant, like I know with therapy notes you can, it will allow you to look at what their real time insurance benefits are.

[Meredith]

We use simple practice and they have like a. Verify your coverage. It's just not the thing. I always discourage it.

[Jasmine]

Just if it's active.

[Alison]

Yeah, got it. Okay, so it's not good info.

[Jasmine]

Yeah.

[Meredith]

And Chris will actually look at what their co pay is going to be and communicate that to them.

[Alison]

Yeah. So you could say like we can go ahead and set this appointment up if you want to send us a picture of the front of your insurance car. Or you can, you know, send it in an email to Chris and we'll get back with you about what your insurance benefits are. You could do that or you can have them call and what, what I've found is a lot of people will call to understand or they won't call, but they're like, I'm fine to just figure it out. If I'VE got a deductible. I've got a deductible. But what they really want need is to be seen.

[Meredith]

So.

[Jasmine]

Yeah. Because I've definitely found that that's where the. The waiting time comes in. Because it is. Yeah. A big obstacle for them to call and can just. Yeah. Take a few weeks.

[Alison]

Yeah. So you could even go.

[Meredith]

That's such a useful piece of advice.

[Alison]

Right.

[Meredith]

Like, where's bottleneck?

[Alison]

That's.

[Meredith]

Yeah, it's totally.

[Alison]

So you could go back with people who've kind of ghosted and say, like, hey, I'm following up in case the insurance piece is like a barrier for you. We have someone on staff now who can check benefits. If you want to get back with me with your insurance information, we can take care of that for you. And that might get you a few people in at once.

[Jasmine]

Yeah, that's a good point. Cool then. Yeah, I think that I have been definitely building my caseload and that's been going well. I just have like a lot of bi weekly people and so then I feel like I have to fill in the other weeks. So. Yeah, I don't really know kind of what that number then looks like in terms of having a full caseload because I do have so many bi weekly people.

[Alison]

Are they bi weekly because clinically that's best for them or because it's just more convenient because they've got other things going on?

[Jasmine]

I would say, you know, a few definitely clinically appropriate. And when I have had ones where we did need to meet more, that was a conversation that I had and we switch to weekly. But then otherwise it's like, oh, I'm private pay and I need to spread out, you know, the amount that I'm paying for services. And yeah, I would say a lot of the private pay ones are the biweekly people.

[Alison]

Okay. But it's clinically okay for that. Like, they're still going to make progress at that pace.

[Jasmine]

Yeah, I would say I can think of one that would probably do better with weekly, but he would really struggle with payments. So I think that bi weekly is. Yeah. Just gonna have to work for him.

[Alison]

Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, not sorry to interrupt this podcast. You've heard of the summer slump this year we're shifting it to the summer sprint. Things will likely be slow this summer, so let's use that time to get your practice ready when the fall comes. In the summer Sprint, we'll get your marketing created or tightened up together. We'll spend June, July and August making sure clients find you and choose you when the rush of fall clients comes, doors close in two days late at night. Friday, May 23rd. And we'll start the first week of June. So hit that link in the bio and I'll see you soon. So what I would suggest is stacking your bi weekly people. So like Tuesdays at 2 are your, your times where you have bi weekly people. So you've got the first and third of the month and the second, the fourth of the month and they just kind of fit in like puzzle pieces with each other. And that way you can see what your availability is. Because I'm a big fan of like, I have the same people at the same time and day. It's easier for them to arrange their schedule. They're not having to scramble a week before every time. It helps me see and know. Yeah, yeah. And it just helps me know what do I have available and what do I not have available. But when you have a lot of bi weekly people, it does make it really messy because then when you have weekly people calling and wanting to fit in and you can't squeeze them in, then it's, it's impacting your practice and your ability to take home money. So stacking, having those times that are set for bi weekly people and just shifting them, like letting people know I'm, I'm shifting my, my calendar some. I want to see if these times work and having a few options for the first people. You ask the people. And I would do it strategically. Like the people who, you know, have more rigid schedules, like they just can't take off as much time with work or they're not working from home or whatever. I would give them the most choices and then kind of whittle it down from there. But having them fill in for each other really makes a big difference in having nice, healthy gaps in your schedule for the weekly people.

[Jasmine]

Okay. And then I did want to see, just in terms of marketing strategies, would you say that networking and really talking with other therapists in the area is a really good, like top strategy to use?

[Alison]

Yeah, yeah. It's one that I consider non negotiable. And having helped people start practices for 10 years, it is way more important now than it ever has been. With big therapy tech taking over and filling in a lot of the other marketing strategies that we might have used in the past, like Psychology Today, when they're adding a thousand people to your town, it's all of a sudden a lot less useful for everyone. So we're starting to see that in different places across the country. But the thing that big therapy tech cannot mimic is relationships. And so as you build those where you live and even afar, if you're seeing people online, you can build those relationships via zoom. It's going to be. I would say it's probably going to be the top thing to keep us all full in the future is those relationships.

[Meredith]

The other thing Allison's a big proponent of is finding your niche. And I know that, and maybe she can give her elevator pitch on that. But I know when you're starting out, it's so hard to even know, like, what is my.

[Jasmine]

What.

[Meredith]

What is my favorite kind of client to work with. But that's often where I think the conversation starts, is, tell me about your favorite client and what is it about them? You know, they're. What they're going through that you feel is such a unique fit for your skill set and then kind of like building a niche there. And really, because you've talked a little bit about trauma, but where an OCD anxiety clinic. So we're seeing more of those referrals. But, yeah. Anybody want to jump in? I just wanted to throw that out.

[Alison]

And, I mean, I see trauma as a really great plug in to anxiety and ocd, because there is that Venn diagram overlap that somebody might be more present to their trauma than they are or more disturbed by their trauma than their ocd, or they might be in denial about the ocd, but they can absolutely acknowledge that they have trauma. And there's so many people with anxiety that think the anxiety is because of work or whatever, but it's, like, underneath.

[Meredith]

And you're like, oh, wait, what about that thing?

[Alison]

Yeah, right. So trauma is a pretty heavy niche. It's a really important niche. So I think when I'm helping people with their niches, it's really important to think about, like, how are you going to feel after a day of seeing somebody? Like, however many clients you want to see in a day, are you going to come home and still have energy for the people you love for yourself? And for some people, like, I mean, I just called trauma heavy. But it also is so fulfilling and so rewarding because you get to see so much strength and resilience all day. So it just. It just depends on the therapist and the caseload and the, like, the number of people you're seeing and the fit of the people you're seeing, which is part of why niche is so important, because it's a really great recipe for burnout to not have a niche. And I don't want any associates Getting burned out. I mean, there are plenty of associates that are burned out for good reason, and I want to minimize that. So.

[Jasmine]

Yeah, that's a really good point. What I would say is that, like, working with ocd, I've really enjoyed it. And the more that I learn about it and do research and trainings, like, I really do enjoy it. And I really enjoy working with the clients that I have that have ocd. And anxiety has always been my wheelhouse. Even when I was, like, working at an agency and was more of a care manager role, like, I really enjoyed working with people with anxiety, just helping them with mindfulness and balance and CBT stuff, like, I really enjoy that. And when Meredith said, just, like, thinking about, you know, some of the clients that you feel like you're really good fit with and, like, are your favorite, I would definitely say that the people with anxiety is where I feel are. Is a good fit. I also really enjoy working with depression because I do really enjoy meeting people where they're at and helping them make small steps as well as kind of digging into their self worth and those kinds of things. And so with that, I feel like 99 of the time, trauma comes along with it. So, like, yes, I enjoy working with trauma, but it doesn't necessarily, yeah, like, have to be trauma solely. I think that, yeah, there's always trauma pieces that end up coming up. And I do enjoy, like, helping people work through those things and process it, but it can also just, yeah, kind of be like something that backpacks the other shot.

[Alison]

Mm, yeah. Yeah. And it's fun, and it's interesting thinking about, like, how do your clients identify their problem before they come to see you? Because three sessions in, they've got more insight about it. It's, oh, yeah, I'm processing trauma that's really led to a bunch of depression instead of, like, when they first come in where it's like, I don't know what's wrong with me. I can't get out of bed sometimes. Like, I don't want to see my friends. And if we're marketing to where they're at before they come and see us, they feel so seen. They feel an immediate sense of trust. But if we're too far down the line from our ideal client and we're talking about trauma and they're not there yet, then they don't see themselves at all. So for you, it's thinking through, like, who's Your favorite? If 60% of your caseload could be one presenting problem which probably has some other underlying or Comorbid things going on, but like they identify their problem in one specific way. It's not all your caseload because none of us want 100% of our niche. Like, yeah, this putting you on spot. You don't have to stick to this answer, but gut reaction, like, what's. What would you want 60% of your.

[Jasmine]

People coming in with, you know, definitely anxiety. And maybe it is just because that is really my wheelhouse and where I feel most comfortable and knowledgeable. Again, like, I do really like working with my OCD clients. But yeah, still feel like I'm getting grounding in that. So, yeah, definitely see anxiety more. So. And you know, of course, just like clients who are willing to, you know, do homework and try things that I suggest or, you know, just teach them about. But I feel like that can kind of be therapists in general appreciate, you know, clients have some follow through.

[Alison]

Yeah, yeah. Well, so we can take anxiety and we can add specificity to it. So maybe it's anxious young adults, maybe it's anxious empty nesters, maybe it's anxious new moms. So like finding a demographic slash specificity to add to it to make it really pop. Yeah, yeah. It could be phase of life and it might be. It might also be a particular presentation of anxiety. If you love helping people who have panic attacks be like, get to that place where they're like, oh, here comes a panic attack. Just ride it out like I have a million other times. It's okay. Then it could be panic disorder. Or like, you could frame it as anxiety attacks, which is what colloquially they're often called. Or if you really love generalized anxiety disorder, you can frame that in the ways that your ideal clients present with it. Like, you never not worry, you're always stressed out and you feel like you've got to be doing something all the time. So the specificity, diagnostically or presentation wise, plus the demographic can be really, really helpful for people to feel like, okay, Jasmine's my person. Like, this is the person who's really going to get me.

[Jasmine]

Yeah. I do feel like, especially recently when people have read my bio on the website or on Psychology Today, I have had people say, you know, that's exactly what I'm going through. And I think you totally understand. And I think that my bios are more tailored toward, you know, you feel like you want to relax and your brain's not shutting off and you're worried about the things that you have to do today, tomorrow, next day. So. Yeah, but that's a point about the like, age Range, too. That's not something that I have necessarily. Yeah. Thought about or pinned down. What were you gonna say?

[Meredith]

Oh, I was just gonna say the. The prompts that I encouraged you and Sarah to use to write your bio came from Allison. So she's the origin.

[Alison]

But let.

[Meredith]

Yeah, there's something, like, for me, when a client sees, like, oh, it feels like I'm playing whack a mole with my compulsions, and there's always a new one popping up. They're like, that is how it feels. And Right. If. When you can have that moment with a client like that again, they're calling you. So finding out the specific things they're saying or that they're connecting to on your. So I always ask, like, oh, well, what was it about my bio? If they're saying, like, oh, it really spoke to me.

[Alison]

Yeah. Because you can. Then if there's. If it's thematic, like, if three people that you really love working with are like, you had this one sentence about X, Y, and Z, then you can, like, have some less interesting sentences in our bios at first. You can take out the ones that are. Aren't really moving the needle, and you can talk more. You can go into more specifics about the thing that they've already identified as was really effective in having them choose you.

[Meredith]

Yeah. And that thing about.

[Jasmine]

Yeah.

[Meredith]

What you said about ruminating, like, oh, man, we could write a bunch of sentences about people who feel, like, caught in that, like, cycle of rumination. They can't turn it off for sure.

[Alison]

You could write about the hell of trying to use meditation because everybody tells everybody who's anxious to meditate. Right. Like, trying to meditate to try to take care of yourself and then getting more frustrated with yourself because your brain goes into overdrive, you know?

[Jasmine]

Right.

[Alison]

So, like, there are all these specific lived experiences that you can describe that will have people be like, do you have a camera in my brain? Like, what's going on?

[Jasmine]

Yeah, it's a good one.

[Alison]

Awesome. Well, we're coming up on time. Do you feel like this gives you a jumping off point, Jasmine?

[Jasmine]

Totally.

[Alison]

Okay, good.

[Jasmine]

Yeah, I think it gives me some things to hone in on. And with the calls, too, what I was doing is I was, like, providing my background first. I think it is a really good idea to just start off with, like, what brings you in and then pulling in how my background can help rather than the other way around and to.

[Alison]

Keep that part, too, because they don't care about you that much. Right. So, like, to keep it really brief when you do. Like, I wouldn't say unless they're asking questions, specific questions. I wouldn't say more than a sentence or maybe two. And always everything you're saying in those one to two sentences is going back to whatever they've disclosed.

[Jasmine]

Yeah.

[Alison]

I think it'll make. You're going to convert a lot more people. A lot more people are going to come in. Just shifting a few really simple things. You weren't doing anything bad or wrong. You know, it's just we're not taught.

[Meredith]

How to sell ourselves.

[Alison]

We're not at all. Yeah.

[Meredith]

In fact, it makes most of us uncomfortable.

[Alison]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because we're also taught not to exist in therapy in grad school. So, like, just there is a vessel for healing. Right. So. Awesome. Well, I. Meredith, I'd love for you to keep me updated on how things go for Jasmine. I wish you luck, Jasmine. Like, you're so close to, like, being exactly where you want to be.

[Jasmine]

So thank you so much for your help. Thank you.

[Alison]

Absolutely. I'll see y' all later.

[Meredith]

Okay, Take care. Thanks.

[Alison]

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