Episode #657: Finding Your Voice & Overcoming The Fear Of Speaking, feat. Linda Ugelow

Summary

Episode #657: Finding Your Voice & Overcoming The Fear Of Speaking
Featuring Linda Ugelow

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Introduction

In Episode #657 of the Abundant Practice Podcast, host Alison Puryear engages in a deep and insightful conversation with guest Linda Ugelow. The episode delves into the pervasive fear of public speaking among therapists and explores strategies to overcome this barrier, enabling therapists to expand their practices through effective communication and outreach.

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Personal Journey with Public Speaking [03:34 – 06:40]

Linda Ugelow opens up about her initial dread of public speaking, despite a rich background as a performer with the Women's World Music Group. In 2015, she ventured into live streaming using Periscope, which presented unexpected challenges:

"I was terrified of being on camera. My heart was pounding, I hyperventilated, and I even felt like I was leaving my body." ([06:40])

Despite her extensive performance experience, Linda grappled with intense anxiety, revealing that fear wasn't merely a manageable hurdle but a persistent obstacle she wanted to eliminate entirely.

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Understanding the Root Causes [06:41 – 13:17]

Linda emphasizes that the fear of public speaking is often deeply rooted in past experiences. She shares personal anecdotes that highlight how childhood traumas and societal conditioning contribute to this fear:

"It's connected to something... you're going to be attacked." ([05:16])

Key experiences included:

• Parental Favoritism: Being labeled the "good girl" led to internalized pressure to maintain perfection.
• School Ostracism: Instances of bullying and isolation reinforced the belief that her voice was unwanted.
• Academic Pressure: Striving for flawless grades instilled a fear of making mistakes and being judged.

These formative experiences planted seeds of insecurity, making public speaking feel inherently dangerous and anxiety-inducing.

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Healing and Overcoming Fear [13:18 – 19:52]

Linda introduces her transformative approach to overcoming public speaking fears, detailed in her book, "Delight in the Limelight." Her methodology encompasses a three-part framework focused on healing:

1. Reveal and Heal: Uncovering the underlying reasons for the fear.
2. Utilize Therapeutic Modalities: Incorporating techniques such as:
   • EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique): Tapping to release emotional blockages.
   • Creative Visualization: Imagining positive outcomes to reshape mental narratives.
   • Journaling and Dance Movement Therapy: Expressing and processing emotions physically and verbally.
3. Letting Go: Changing the relationship with past traumas to prevent them from impeding present actions.

Linda recounts a pivotal moment after five days of intensive self-work:

"After five days, my heart wasn't racing. I felt present because I wasn't being pulled into the past." ([07:11])

This breakthrough allowed her to experience public speaking with newfound confidence and joy, transforming her approach from fear management to fear elimination.

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Application in Therapy [19:53 – 23:05]

Linda discusses how her personal journey informs her therapeutic practice. By addressing her fears, she became adept at helping clients navigate their own anxieties related to public speaking. She shares case studies illustrating how uncovering and healing past traumas can liberate individuals from their fears:

• Client Example 1: A man who felt perpetually on the outside of friend groups realized his fear of not being listened to mirrored Linda's own childhood experiences.
• Client Example 2: A valedictorian struggled with the fear of failure despite external success, stemming from relentless academic pressure.

These examples underscore the importance of addressing the root causes rather than merely managing symptoms.

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Service-Oriented Speaking [23:06 – 26:37]

A pivotal shift Linda highlights is moving from seeking validation through public speaking to focusing on the service provided to the audience:

"I'm doing it for service... I'm doing it because I know that there's someone in the audience that needs this experience." ([25:50])

She contrasts two motivations for public speaking:

• Validation-Seeking: Driven by the need for affirmation and fear of judgment, which can detract from the authenticity and effectiveness of the message.
• Service-Oriented: Focused on delivering value and support to the audience, fostering a more genuine and impactful presence.

Linda shares her experience performing trance dances, where the emphasis shifted from seeking applause to serving the emotional needs of her audience, leading to a more fulfilling and fear-free experience.

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Examples and Case Studies [26:38 – 27:25]

Linda provides a compelling case study of a client who, despite being an excellent speaker, lost confidence after her mother's passing. The client's fear intensified when she became emotional during a talk, fearing it signaled instability. Through therapeutic intervention, Linda helped her:

• Unpack Triggers: Understanding the emotional response was linked to personal loss and high expectations.
• Redefine Success: Emphasizing authentic expression over flawless delivery.

This process enabled the client to embrace moments of vulnerability as strengths, transforming her relationship with public speaking.

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Conclusion

Alison and Linda conclude the episode by reinforcing the transformative power of overcoming public speaking fears. By addressing and healing past traumas, therapists can unlock their full potential to engage and serve their communities effectively. Linda encapsulates the essence of the discussion:

"When you are free of fear, it's like, 'Oh, good, it's my turn to speak.'" ([27:10])

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Notable Quotes

• Linda Ugelow: “You're going to be attacked.” ([05:16])
• Linda Ugelow: “I didn't want to manage my fear. I wanted my fear to be gone.” ([07:11])
• Linda Ugelow: “We want to change human and society, human consciousness and society.” ([19:38])
• Linda Ugelow: “We can easily get caught up because we want to feel like we're good enough.” ([23:05])
• Linda Ugelow: “I'm doing it for service.” ([25:50])

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Key Takeaways

1. Identify Root Causes: Understanding the foundational reasons behind the fear of public speaking is crucial for effective healing.
2. Holistic Healing: Utilizing a variety of therapeutic modalities can address different aspects of trauma and anxiety.
3. Shift in Motivation: Focusing on service rather than validation enhances the authenticity and impact of public speaking.
4. Therapist Self-Growth: Overcoming personal fears not only benefits therapists personally but also enriches their professional practice.
5. Authentic Expression: Embracing vulnerability can transform public speaking from a fear-inducing task to a powerful tool for connection and service.

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For therapists seeking to overcome their fear of public speaking and expand their practice, this episode offers invaluable insights and practical strategies. Dive deeper into Linda Ugelow’s methods by exploring her book, Delight in the Limelight, and consider how healing your own fears can amplify your ability to serve others.

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Transcript

[Linda Ugolo]

Foreign.

[Alison Parir]

Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practicebuilding.com Links all right, onto the show. Some of y' all aren't sending HIPAA compliant email and it's a problem. Even if you're paying for a business Google Workspace account and have a signed BAA, your emails still aren't 100% compliant. That's where Palbox comes in. You can connect Palbox to your Google Workspace or Microsoft 365 email one time and you're completely covered. No one has to sign into portals. It sends and it shows up like any other email behind the scenes. Powbox software checks the security settings of the recipient and ensures that the email is sent properly so you're not violating HIPAA in the ways you may accidentally be. Now, I know HIPAA isn't sexy, but we don't avoid compliance in an Abundant practice. We check the boxes we need to check and this is the easiest way to do that with email. Check out my [e-mail] that's P A U B O X Use Code abundant to get $250 off your first year of Palbox. That makes it less than $100 for your first year.

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Welcome back to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm your host, Alison Parir. I am here with Linda Ugolo. And we're going to be talking about something that a lot of therapists shy away from. We're going to be talking about public speaking. And as someone who used to, like, be terrified of public speaking and now do it a fair amount, I'm really excited about what you're going to share with us because there is access to so much of what we want in our practice when we have gotten through some of the fear of public speaking and there's so much service we can provide through public speaking. So thanks for being here.

[Linda Ugolo]

I'm so happy to and excited to get into this conversation.

[Alison Parir]

Yeah. So let's talk some. I mean, I think there are lots of avenues for public speaking for therapists. There are workshops, retreats, group consultations, these kinds of things where we might freeze up. As therapists, we're often taught to not really exist too much in the room as people. A lot of us in our, like, hide your humanity, essentially. And then the more we practice, the more we realize that's not really a thing that we need to be concerned about. So the idea of being front and center, of being seen, can be really confronting to a lot of therapists. So I'm curious how you work with people to move through some of that fear of public speaking that's so common.

[Linda Ugolo]

Well, I think that therapists of all people will understand this, that the fear of speaking isn't random. That's always connected to something. And even though I have a background in psychology, I have a master's degree in expressive Arts Therapy, I didn't realize my lifelong fear of speaking might be connected to past experiences I had. And it wasn't until I tried to, I took a coaching program and I was online and wanting to build that coaching business, needed to get in front of people, that I realized that I was terrified of being on camera. And at the time, it was 2015 and live streaming became a thing. It was a brand new thing. Only a few people kind of knew about it at the time. And it was an app called Periscope.

[Alison Parir]

I remember it. Do you remember the sound it made? Yeah.

[Linda Ugolo]

That's so cool. That's so cool. You know, you got on the platform, typed in your topic, and then you could see who was joining from where. So you would see, you know, people from India and Turkey and France and California. And there was no. It was, like, shown to everybody. There was no algorithm. There was a map. A little light would blink over Boston, which was my area, and anyone in the world could look at that map at any time and say, oh, I wonder who's talking in Boston. What are they chatting about? So it was an abundant audience. And I remember when I would press broadcasts and people would come on, my heart was pounding, my, My. My breath. I. I hyperventilated. I even felt like I was leaving my body, like I was hovering above myself. But I'd been a performer for 40 years with women's World Music Group. We'd done, I don't know, over 500 performances by the end of my. My four decades with them. So I knew and I had skills to, like, bring myself down into my body and to focus and perform, you know, so that people probably didn't know that I was as having a panic attack inside.

[Alison Parir]

Yeah.

[Linda Ugolo]

And I assumed that doing this day after day because all the marketing gurus said you got to get on daily to blow your. Build your following. And I assume that, oh, after a few weeks, I'll be fine. And in the meantime, I'll meditate, I'll do deep breathing and power poses and affirmations and all these ways to manage the fear so I could get on and be composed. By the way, what I was talking about was how not to stress in your business.

[Alison Parir]

Love it.

Love the parallel process.

[Linda Ugolo]

A little. A little parallel process and a bit of irony after, you know, the weeks went on because I got into this daily routine, and at week 10, I was about to get on, and I realized my heart is still racing. I was still hyperventilating. And all of a sudden it occurred to me, I'm managing my fear, but my fear hasn't gone. I didn't want to manage my fear. I wanted my fear to be gone. I didn't want to have to think about it. I didn't want to have to worry about it. I didn't want to be distracted by it. And that's what. What I think is most insidious about the fear of speaking is that it's distracting. It takes up mental bandwidth on so many physically, you Know, mentally, you know, you're worried on some level, you're worried that it's going to show, you're trying to minimize it when you really want to put your energy into communicating instead of managing it. And I know that therapists understand this from with their clients. So I decided I was going to get rid of it. I mean, I had already done all the Google searches to figure out what was available publicly to help me. And I'd read books and nothing really got to me. But I decided, okay, what are the tools? I know, and one of them is something called focusing. And probably, you know, many of your people in your audience have heard of it where you listen into your body and you imagine the distress in your body and you speak to it from a body place. So I decided to close my eyes and ask the fear, if the fear could talk, what would it say? And what came back to me was, you're going to be attacked. And all of a sudden I remembered all these childhood experiences where my sisters attacked me. Every time mom put me in the center of attention, she would say, linda's such a good girl. Why can't you two girls be more like Linda? Yeah, yeah, of course they set you up. Yeah, you set it up. I know. And you know, and here's another irony. I was the good girl because I saw them get punished. And I thought, that's never gonna happen to me. And it never did for mom, but it certainly did for my sisters. And then I had this duh, moment. Of course I'm not comfortable being the center of attention. Cause I learned it was dangerous. And then I started to think, well, what else taught me it was dangerous? And I thought about in seventh grade when all the girls said nobody talked to Linda and no one did for four days. And I remember how impactful that was because after that I thought, people don't want to hear from me. People don't want to hear what I have to say. And then I thought about how that time I brought home my straight A report card and mom saw, looked at and said, why an A minus and not an A plus? And feeling like, oh, I'm not good enough for her. I have to be perfect in order to be good enough. Countless other things, you know, I started to like comb through my, what I call the psychic closet, the Jungian, you know, idea of the psychic closet of the psyche and just kind of clean out whatever I could find, like what was there that may have impacted me. And it turned out that I had some self help tools that I had Been taught by a friend, Eliza Bergerson, who was a kinesiologist, a transformational kinesiologist. One was eft. I also had been using creative visualization from a book called Creative Visualization by Shakti Gawain. Everyone who was around and interested in the 70s or the 80s thing, it came out in 86. Everybody had that book. And. And then I did journaling and I did dance because my background's in dance movement therapy. And at night, I remember lying awake in the middle of the night thinking, okay, who else said anything mean to me or anything that made me. Belittled me or shamed me or I felt humiliated and I forgave them. I'd say, I forgive you for, you know, embarrassing me in front of the class. I forgive you. And. And then I forgave myself. And after five days, and I'm still doing my periscope daily after five days, my heart wasn't racing, huh. I felt present because I wasn't being pulled into the past, even unconsciously, by these things. And it was thrilling. And I went on to do another 200 days of live streaming feeling very present, very happy, like delighted. And it wasn't that I started to work with people with this right away. I actually kind of kept it to myself. But I mentioned to a few people that I had done this for myself. And all of a sudden people started to say, oh, do you think it would work for me? And I said, I don't know. I had my issues. I have my modalities that I like, but let's try it. And so one thing led to the other. And once I realized that this was something that could help other people and not just people getting on camera, because that's where I was. I wasn't a speaker on a stage. Although in my women's world music group, I did have to introduce songs. And that totally changed too. Oh, my gosh. When my song came up to be introduced, I remember thinking, oh, good, it's my turn to speak. And, like, that feeling of enthusiasm was revelatory to me, that I could actually look forward to it rather than dread it.

[Alison Parir]

Yeah.

[Linda Ugolo]

So, you know, in the meantime, you know, once I started work with clients, I. I discovered all these other areas that can be impactful that I hadn't realized when I was just working with myself or with my first client. So, you know, as therapists and not licensed as a therapist, but we all know that we learn from our clients, right?

[Alison Parir]

Oh, yeah.

[Linda Ugolo]

And it's the same thing in this area of what are the Experiences that people had that impacted them. Because I would, you know, I'd question them, I'd have them reflect back. And when we. When we couldn't find the things in the areas that I was aware of, something would pop up. For instance, I had one client who he said, I had a lot of friend groups. Because I asked him, what about your friends? And he said, I had a lot of friend groups, but I always felt on the outside, I had the nerd friends and the drama friends and the athletes, but I was never on the inside. And I said, is it possible that you felt like, oh, those are the people who should be asked? Those are the people who are popular. Those are the people that others want to hear from? No one really wants to hear from me. Kind of like when I got bullied in seventh grade and he said, oh, my gosh, yes, that's what it feels like. Or another client I had, we couldn't find anything in his family. So totally supportive, but not too much, not too pushy. You know, great with the siblings. And then in school, he was liked by all his teachers, and he had friends, and he was never bullied. And then I said, where were you in your class rank? And he said, oh, I was valedictorian. I said, do you think it's possible that you felt that people liked you, people valued you because you were so smart, that you were always at the top of your class, that you were always perfect because remember in school you get the highest grades for not making any mistakes? And he said, yeah, I feel like if I make any mistake, I'm a failure and that people aren't going to like me.

[Alison Parir]

Yeah. And it's interesting because it's such a common fear. It's easy to write it off as just like, this is a thing humans are afraid of. Instead of taking some time and some intention and seeing what is it that I specifically am afraid of? Like, what is this rooted back into from my past that keeps me scared and keeps me not trying it or keeps me not exposure therapy my way through it?

[Linda Ugolo]

Yes. And, you know, this is why I feel that that idea that it's in our human design to be afraid. I think it's just the opposite. Because if you look at kids when they're learning to speak, you can't get them to stop. So what happens? And they're completely unselfconscious. What happens between then and now? Well, it's all the conditioning that we had. You know, it's the dysfunctional family systems.

[Alison Parir]

Right.

[Linda Ugolo]

It's the school System that, you know, makes us afraid of mistakes that embarrasses us in front of schoolmates, that the mean teachers or the, you know, the testing and feeling like we're being scrutinized and evaluated on every move we make and that the idea of expressing ourselves freely is stamped down because of classroom management and that there's one way to get to the right answer instead of multiple ways. I mean, there's been a lot of new research and intelligence that's been infused, but basically the system is very traumatic for most people. Very few people get out of school not feeling some kind of injury from the experience.

[Alison Parir]

Right. Which also, you know, has to do with the age. Like we can't get through adolescence without injury. We can't get through. Especially like navigating those relationships, friendships, hormones, all of it. Like, it's all just a messy, messy.

[Linda Ugolo]

It's very messy. And our society is messy. And you know, one of, I mean, one of the things that I think is so beautiful about therapists is that your light workers, you know, we are trying to help change human and society, human consciousness and society. So it's a kinder, more supportive and encouraging place.

[Alison Parir]

Right. So I'm hearing for therapists who, like, maybe when they've thought about the impact they want to have on the world or a marketing strategy to fill their practice, they've considered public speaking at some level. What I'm hearing is if you're reticent or if you cannot keep your panic at bay after multiple times of trying, there's likely some tendrils into your past that are worth exploring.

[Linda Ugolo]

I love that word, tendrils. Yes. And, and in. So like in my book Delight in the Limelight, I lay out a framework, a three part framework. And the first part is to reveal and heal. So to uncover what could be the reason why you decided it was safer to hide.

[Alison Parir]

Yeah.

[Linda Ugolo]

And then to heal it with what? You know, I have my modalities, but you can use any kind of modalities. I promote a multimodality approach just because I feel that we're multi dimensional. And when it goes to healing these things, I love something called EFT or emotional freedom technique. Some people notice tapping, but I don't rely on it alone. I then may do some like, inner parenting, inner child work, do some physical. You know, I'm a movement person. I might do some music movement, doing forgiveness. Definitely. Because ultimately we want to let go. We want to change the relationship that we had to the past. Just, I mean, I'm talking to the choir Here. But. But. But just as a reminder, it's the same thing with this fear of public speaking. And it could be the way that we, you know, and all of the listeners as therapists, it's there, a growing edge for them to be able to heal another aspect of their past. Because all therapists have done a lot of healing work, but maybe haven't thought about this particular area.

[Alison Parir]

Right. Because it's just so ubiquitous. Right. Like everybody's afraid of.

[Linda Ugolo]

Right, Exactly. And that's why it never occurred to me. I mean, the tools that I use to get over my fear, I had had those for probably two decades. I just didn't know I had stuff to heal.

[Alison Parir]

Right.

[Linda Ugolo]

Until I came up against that block in a very public way.

[Alison Parir]

And I imagine. I can't. I can't think of anyone who hasn't gotten the message to stop talking, to be smaller, that what they have to say isn't important, that who they are isn't important. I can't. I can't think of a single person who hasn't had that experience at some point growing up and into their young adulthood.

[Linda Ugolo]

There I have come across some. I mean, even as I said, among my clients, I've had a couple. In fact, I also worked with somebody recently who loved speaking, felt really, really good at it until last year. And she wasn't sure what happened. What happened? That she lost her confidence. And it was interesting. She kind of set herself up. It was twofold. One is that she set herself up, and two, that she has a very competitive nature and also very smart, at the top of her class, liked being better than other people. And so she had taken over somebody's position who had ended their tenure on a high note. He had invested in some coaches to help him create his last presentation to the organization. He killed it. And she thought. She went in and she said the next year, she said, wasn't that he amazing? He killed it. Let's see if I can top him. And I was thinking, no, don't say that.

[Alison Parir]

Right.

[Linda Ugolo]

Please. It's akin to somebody introducing you as this person's. The funniest person you'll ever hear. You're gonna be. And then everyone's, like, waiting, okay, is he funny? Is he funny? No. You don't want to set yourself up with high expectations that then you have to fulfill.

[Alison Parir]

Yeah.

[Linda Ugolo]

So that was some. One thing that happened to her. And the other is that her mother had recently passed away, and she didn't realize, like, she. She's not a person who cries. And when she Decided to say something or refer to her mom in her. Her talk because it fit in with something. And as she did it, she became emotional and it threw her off.

[Alison Parir]

Yeah.

[Linda Ugolo]

And she was afraid that she was going to, like, her voice got shaky and. And she felt, like, unstable and. And distracted, obviously. And all of a sudden she was afraid, oh, now what's going on with me? You know, she starts a downward spiral. Is this going to happen again? And so we needed to unpack that. Why did she get triggered? And also unpack. Is it okay to be emotional when you speak?

[Alison Parir]

Right.

[Linda Ugolo]

And does it mean that you're going to fall apart or can you have a moment and also gift an audience with a moment?

[Alison Parir]

Yeah. I can imagine. That was the most riveting moment of her entire talk.

[Linda Ugolo]

Absolutely. But it. It terrified her.

[Alison Parir]

Right.

[Linda Ugolo]

And it. And it set her up for fearing the next talk she was going to give. I mean, what was interesting. I don't know where this came from, but I said to her she was really hooked on people telling her how great she was. I said, how much do you feel you need people to tell you how great you are in order to feel how great you are? Is it possible that you've had enough? Like, if it still comes, how wonderful. What a gift that is. But can you decide that it's more important what you communicate than people say? That was amazing. And that shifted it for her.

[Alison Parir]

Yeah.

[Linda Ugolo]

And I think that's one of the things that on some level, we. We can easily get caught up because we want to feel like we're good enough. We want to feel like we're okay, that. That people like, like us, that they like what we have to say, that they think well of us. They hold us in regards. So there is part of us that wants people to say what a great speaker you are or, that was wonderful. I love listening to you that.

[Alison Parir]

That.

[Linda Ugolo]

That, you know, feeds a part of us that maybe didn't get it earlier on. And so it's like a little hole in the bucket that needs to fill up that we may not like admitting to, but it's there. Yeah, I remember. I. So I told you I performed with the Women's World Music Group, and I was the principal dancer, and I did this one dance. It's a trance dance from Egypt. It's so powerful and people would often cry. It's very simple, but it's emotional and it builds up and then it ends. And I know the impact on the audience. And I did it, I don't know, 25, 30 years almost every performance, and people would come up to me and they say, that was amazing. You know, I. That just brought me to tears. It felt so impactful. I don't know what it did for me, but it was. I know it was big. And after a while, I came to expect that, and I felt like I don't need that anymore. I mean, it's nice to know, but it's not. It's like I'm already filled up. I know. I'm certain. I'm. I'm confident in the impact that that dance makes.

[Alison Parir]

Right.

[Linda Ugolo]

And I'm doing it for service. I'm doing it because I know that there's someone in the audience that needs this experience, not because I'm looking for people to say, oh, Linda, you're amazing dancer, or something like that.

[Alison Parir]

And when you're coming from service, there's a different energy.

[Linda Ugolo]

Yes.

[Alison Parir]

I think about that with therapists. If you are going out and giving talks in your community and you're coming from desperation, send me clients. I need to fill my caseload. That kind of energy, it feels very different for the audience. Then if you're there to share information you know will be helpful for people.

[Linda Ugolo]

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So, yes, we need to understand, like, what is my need for affirmation validation from others? And if there is that, that can be a clue to what needs to be healed. Where didn't I get validation as a kid or earlier on, and who did I want it from? And let's see how we can clear that away.

[Alison Parir]

Amazing. Well, Linda, thank you so much. You've got your book Delight in the Limelight. I love the COVID art. I can see it behind you. For anybody watching on YouTube versus listening, like, it's awesome. So we will put a link to that in the show notes so that people can check it out. Because I think, like, what you're bringing up about processing through that stuff, that makes it hard and scary for us. Like, it. It prevents us from being of service in this way. And for people building their practice, it can make growing slower in a way that it just doesn't have to be.

[Linda Ugolo]

Absolutely. Because when you are free of it, then as I said, it's like, oh, good, it's my turn to speak.

[Alison Parir]

Right? Yes. I love it. Amazing. Thank you so much.

[Linda Ugolo]

Thank you for having me on, Alison.

[Alison Parir]

Take care.

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