Abundant Practice Podcast: Episode #676 Summary
“Harry Potter & Trauma Renegotiation” Featuring Kellie Hayes
Release Date: August 11, 2025

In Episode #676 of the Abundant Practice Podcast, host Allison Puryear engages in a profound discussion with Kellie Hayes, a Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC) and Licensed Clinical Mental Health Counselor (LCMHC) with six years of experience in the counseling field. The episode delves into the intricate relationship between the Harry Potter series and the concept of trauma renegotiation, offering therapists innovative ways to connect with clients through popular culture.

1. Introduction to Trauma Responses: Big T vs. Little t Trauma

The conversation begins with a foundational exploration of trauma responses, distinguishing between Big T Trauma and Little t trauma:

• Big T Trauma refers to significant, often single-event traumas such as sexual assault, natural disasters, or acts of violence. Kellie explains, “[...] a one-time event or multiple big events that are severe” (05:24).

• Little t trauma, on the other hand, encompasses attachment wounds and ongoing, less overt experiences that stem from childhood, such as repeated emotional neglect or subtle forms of abuse. Kellie emphasizes, “these are really something stemming back to childhood” (06:19).

Allison complements this by highlighting the personal nature of trauma and its varied manifestations, noting that Little t trauma can be just as debilitating as Big T trauma.

2. Applying Harry Potter Characters to Trauma Responses

The core of the episode revolves around using Harry Potter characters and scenarios as metaphors for understanding and addressing trauma:

• Harry Potter’s Trauma: Kellie outlines Harry’s early and continual exposure to trauma, beginning with witnessing his parents’ murder. She states, “Harry witnessed... his parents be murdered” (08:45), categorizing this as Big T trauma. Throughout the series, Harry’s constant battles and threats exemplify ongoing trauma responses.

• Hermione Granger’s Experience: While not as explicitly detailed, Hermione’s character is explored through her perfectionism and need for control, which Kellie interprets as Little t trauma stemming from self-worth issues and attachment wounds.

• Ron Weasley’s Struggles: Ron’s feelings of inadequacy and lack of recognition from his family highlight Little t trauma, with Kellie observing, “He is just experiences a lot of little t trauma” (10:20).

3. Clinical Applications: Using Harry Potter in Therapy

Allison and Kellie discuss practical ways to incorporate Harry Potter references into therapeutic settings:

• Dementors as Trauma Responses: Kellie draws a parallel between the Dementors in Harry Potter and trauma responses, describing Dementors as “soul-sucking beings” that resonate with how trauma can drain an individual's joy and vitality (23:28). She suggests using the metaphor of casting an Expecto Patronum as a framework for practicing EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) therapy, where clients focus on a happy memory to counteract traumatic thoughts.

  Kellie Hayes [23:28]: “dementors are trauma responses... how you get rid of them is thinking of a happy memory...”

• Marauder’s Map for Containment: The Marauder’s Map serves as a metaphor for containing and managing traumatic memories. Kellie shares a case example where a client used a personalized Marauder’s Map to map out and process their traumas before EMDR sessions.

  Kellie Hayes [21:06]: “we kind of put out her traumas on there... interweaved the dementors and happy memories.”

• Character Analogies: Utilizing characters like Professor McGonagall and Severus Snape, therapists can help clients identify and reframe their perceptions of authority figures and personal trauma triggers.

4. Client Experiences and Bibliotherapy

The episode highlights bibliotherapy’s rising role in therapy, showcasing how clients relate deeply to literature:

• Transformative Reading: Kellie recounts a client who initially felt unable to read Harry Potter as an adult due to the characters' traumatic experiences. Through therapy, the client revisited the books with a new perspective, recognizing themes of resilience and post-traumatic growth.

  Kellie Hayes [45:00]: “she was able to get back into the book and see it with a different lens... I mean, that made me cry whenever we discharged and she graduated.”

• Empathy and Self-Reflection: Allison shares how her own relationship with Harry Potter evolved, using character frustrations and growth as mirrors for her personal development and therapeutic progress.

  Allison Puryear [35:51]: “I have the ideal client... striving to do everything the right way and the best I can totally over relate.”

5. Challenges and Considerations in Using Pop Culture References

The discussion also addresses potential pitfalls and the importance of nuanced application:

• Over-Reliance on Metaphors: Kellie warns against using metaphors like Harry Potter without ensuring they resonate meaningfully with the client’s experiences. She mentions a client who found Harry Potter references distressing due to personal associations with trauma.

• Author’s Background: The conversation touches on the complexities of separating an author's personal history and controversial views from their literary works, acknowledging that personal allegiances to the series may vary among clients.

6. The Importance of Healthy Relationships and Resilience

A significant theme is the portrayal of healthy friendships and resilience in Harry Potter:

• Hermione and Ron’s Loyalty: Their unwavering support for Harry exemplifies healthy, resilient relationships. Kellie highlights Hermione’s integrity and loyalty as therapeutic models for clients seeking to understand and cultivate strong, supportive friendships.

  Kellie Hayes [40:00]: “Hermione's values, friendship, loyalty, and integrity... she is someone who sticks with Harry no matter what.”

• Post-Traumatic Growth: Both Allison and Kellie discuss how characters’ journeys illustrate the concept of post-traumatic growth, where individuals not only recover from trauma but also develop greater personal strength and deeper relationships.

7. Conclusion: Leveraging Popular Culture for Therapeutic Success

The episode concludes with reflections on the benefits and future potential of integrating popular culture like Harry Potter into therapeutic practices. Both hosts advocate for bibliotherapy and creative metaphors as powerful tools for fostering empathy, understanding trauma, and promoting healing.

Allison Puryear [59:33]: “Ways to look at trauma that gives them the respect... helps us do it easier for ourselves as well.”

Key Takeaways

• Big T vs. Little t Trauma: Understanding the distinction helps tailor therapeutic approaches effectively.

• Creative Metaphors: Using familiar narratives, such as Harry Potter, can make complex trauma concepts more accessible to clients.

• Bibliotherapy: Integrating literature into therapy can enhance empathy and provide relatable frameworks for clients’ experiences.

• Healthy Relationships: Demonstrating resilience and loyalty through character analyses can guide clients in building strong support systems.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kellie Hayes [02:15]: “You can be triggered by smells, by sound, by what you see, by what you hear. All the senses can be trauma responses.”

• Allison Puryear [05:10]: “big T trauma versus little T trauma... big T trauma is more important... little T can mess up your life just as much.”

• Kellie Hayes [23:28]: “dementors are trauma responses... how you get rid of them is thinking of a happy memory...”

• Kellie Hayes [21:06]: “we kind of put out her traumas on there... interweaved the dementors and happy memories.”

• Allison Puryear [35:51]: “I have the ideal client... striving to do everything the right way and the best I can totally over relate.”

Time Stamps Reference

• [05:10] - Allison Puryear discusses Big T vs. Little t Trauma.
• [02:15] - Kellie Hayes defines trauma responses.
• [23:28] - Dementors as trauma responses analogy.
• [21:06] - Marauder’s Map analogy in therapy.
• [35:51] - Allison reflects on personal connection with Hermione.

This episode provides a compelling blend of literary analysis and clinical insight, equipping therapists with creative strategies to engage clients and navigate the complexities of trauma through the beloved world of Harry Potter.