Episode #689: Networking Mindset

Summary

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Abundant Practice Podcast

Episode #689: Networking Mindset

Host: Allison Puryear
Guest: Adina
Date: September 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the mindset, strategies, and emotional hurdles that therapists encounter when networking to build and sustain private practices. Allison offers tailored advice to Adina, who feels stuck in maintaining professional relationships and maximizing networking returns, especially with limited time and a feeling of imbalance in "give and take." The conversation blends practical outreach suggestions with deeper explorations of the therapist mindset, anxiety around reciprocity, and the long-game nature of genuine referral relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenge of Maintaining Networking Relationships

• Adina shares her struggle: She enjoys initial networking meetings but finds it difficult to maintain ongoing relationships, especially when time is scarce and when those connections don’t immediately lead to referrals.
  • "It's hard to be maintaining some of those networking relationships. And I was struggling with that before, even when I wasn't quite as busy." (03:09, Adina)
• Allison's advice: Be strategic about where you invest energy. Focus on connections who are currently in a position to send referrals, even if you enjoy others more on a personal level.
  • "If you have limited time, it's looking at like, who else did you enjoy that's actually going to be able to help you right now." (04:41, Allison)

2. Choosing Networking Targets & Methods

• Target prescribers: Allison recommends focusing energy on nurse practitioners, psychiatrists, and other prescribers who are more likely to have clients needing therapy, rather than therapists who may be seeking to build their own caseloads.
  • "I would focus on the prescribers because they have many more people they can send you than the average therapist will." (14:10, Allison)
• Practical suggestions for follow-up:
  • Make connecting easy for busy professionals: offer to bring or order lunch/coffee for virtual or quick in-person check-ins.
    • "Hey person, I would love to swing by and bring you some lunch and just check in and see how things are going." (07:52, Allison)
    • "Or can I doordash you lunch? Because I think about, like, if they've got to eat." (09:10, Allison)
  • Don't overthink reciprocity: gestures like buying lunch are common and appreciated.

3. Guilt, Reciprocity, and Mindset Blocks

• Adina’s internal conflict: She feels guilty asking for referrals when she cannot reciprocate at the same level.
  • "I get caught up in ... I can't refer to all of them. And so like it feels very one sided if like I'm hoping they refer to me." (09:48, Adina)
• Allison reframes reciprocity:
  • Points out that in mental health, "perfect" reciprocity isn’t always possible or reasonable.
    • "While they might be taking on clients, they also know that most therapy clients aren't getting meds ... So I think there is a kind of a unidirectional situation." (11:24, Allison)
  • Over time, referrals often balance out naturally as relationships and specialties become clear.
  • Deep mindset note: Therapists often feel undeserving or fear being "a taker"; Allison normalizes these concerns.
    • "It's interesting, right, that there's almost a sometimes a not deserving for people. Like, I don't deserve to have your help until I've helped you." (12:43, Allison)
  • Take the long view; relationships are not merely transactional but build trust and mutual benefit over time.
    • "It is definitely a planting seeds thing. I have heard very rarely of people who like met somebody and then got a referral within the next couple weeks. It's really about building that relationship." (18:48, Allison)

4. Directly Asking for Referrals: How and When

• Timing and comfort: Wait until there is some rapport, but don't feel you need to be “best friends” before mentioning your caseload or referral needs.
  • "I don't think you have to be besties to say it's been really slow for me referral wise this summer. What about you?" (20:14, Allison)
• Model language: Normalize discussing referral slowdowns in conversation, which opens the door without pressure.
  • "If they're like, yeah, it's been weird, but like. Yeah, well, how about this? If I find somebody, like, if I have a client that's a great fit, I'm sending them your way. If you have a client that's my. A good fit for me, then I'd love them." (20:46, Allison)

5. Mindset for Sustainable Networking

• Practice overcomes discomfort: Repeated exposure and experience makes both networking and asking for referrals less uncomfortable.
  • "It's amazing how that's most of practice building ... the anticipation of the thing being so much worse than the actual thing." (23:41, Allison)
• Friendship comparison: Don’t obsess over perfect reciprocity ("write down every nice thing you and a friend have done for each other")—most relationships ebb and flow.
  • "That's how it’s sounding to me. Because it's not like, yes, these people aren't your closest friends, but they are people you get along with." (22:28, Allison)

6. SEO and Other Marketing Channels

• Adina’s SEO efforts: Nearly a year into weekly blogging and SEO investment, with little organic result—Allison confirms it’s a “long game,” especially in competitive markets like New York.
  • "If this was Oklahoma, I'd be like a whole year and you're not up on the range, you know, but, yeah." (26:43, Allison)
• Assessing Channel Effectiveness:
  • If clicks are up but conversions aren’t, revisit website copy or try other platforms (directories, Psychology Today, etc.).
  • Allison advises listening carefully to clients' language to better target keywords:
    • "Clear your mind and really listen to your sessions. Especially the people you just started working with ... Where were they when they first called?" (28:49, Allison)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being strategic with networking:
  • "Really being strategic ... If you have limited time, it's looking at, like, who else did you enjoy that’s actually going to be able to help you right now."
    — Allison (04:41)
• On the nature of referrals:
  • "It is definitely a planting seeds thing ... It's really about building that relationship."
    — Allison (18:48)
• On therapist mindset around deservingness:
  • "It's interesting, right, that there's almost a sometimes a not deserving for people. Like, I don't deserve to have your help until I've helped you."
    — Allison (12:43)
• On the discomfort of directness:
  • "It's been really slow for me referral wise this summer. What about you?"
    — Allison (20:14)
• On practice and discomfort:
  • "Once you've done it a few times, you've acclimated, it’s fine."
    — Allison (23:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• The struggle to maintain relationships
  [03:09]–[04:41]
• Being strategic with networking time
  [04:41]–[05:48]
• Prescribers and creative follow-up methods
  [07:52]–[09:20]
• Mindset blocks and reciprocity in networking
  [09:48]–[13:10]
• Directness and asking for referrals
  [18:48]–[21:41]
• Building comfort through repetition
  [23:41]–[23:55]
• Strategizing SEO and website issues
  [24:01]–[29:09]

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Tone and Takeaways

The episode is empathetic, candid, and practical. Allison and Adina openly address common emotional hurdles for therapists—especially around asking for help, feeling deserving, and navigating a sometimes-awkward networking process. Key takeaways include the value of strategic outreach, the realistic timelines for seeing results, reframing networking as long-term relationship building rather than transactional exchange, and normalizing the discomfort that’s part of professional growth.

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Transcript

[Adina]

Foreign.

[Alison]

Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices. Just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practice building.com Links all right, onto the show. So I've talked about therapy notes on here for years. I could talk about the features and the benefits in my sleep. But there are a couple things I want you to know about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it into an ad script. First is that they actually care if you like their platform. They don't only make themselves available on the phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your hair out when you get stuck. They also take member suggestions and implement those that there's client demand for. Like Therapy Search, an included listing service that helps clients find you internal and external secure messaging. Clinical outcome measures to keep an eye on how your clients are progressing. A super smooth, super bill process. Real time eligibility to check on your client's insurance. In my conversations with the employees there at all levels, they all really believe in their product and they want you to love it too. Second, they are proudly independently owned. Why should you care about that? Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved, the focus shifts from making customers happy to making investors happy. Prices go way up. Innovation plateaus. Making more money with as little output as possible becomes the number one focus. With over 100,000 therapists using their platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful and they don't have to sacrifice your experience to stay there. You can try two months [e-mail] with the coupon code Abundant.

[Adina]

Hey Dina, how are you? I'm good.

[Alison]

How you doing?

[Adina]

Doing okay. Getting over maybe being sick. I'm not sure, but I'm mentally as present as I can be.

[Alison]

Love it. Well, what would be most helpful today?

[Adina]

Oh, there's so much we could talk about. I. So we can go in a different direction if this is something that we couldn't get to today. Okay. But I was curious whether you could like look over my website and give some feedback on it.

[Alison]

Could we do that another time?

[Adina]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alison]

Okay, cool.

[Adina]

Yeah, just because that's the one where I'm like, I felt really good about my website at first and I knew it was like unfinished. I knew there was like work to be done on it, but I felt like good enough with where it was, and now I'm like, I never got back to working on it because I've had too much on my plate. And, like, is that what's stopping people from like, really converting, you know? Yeah.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Adina]

Or like reaching out to me, you know? Yeah.

[Alison]

Bring it to group.

[Adina]

Sure.

[Alison]

If that's cool with you.

[Adina]

Yeah. I won't be able to go for the next few months. Okay. Which is why I was wondering. But I could always get back. Okay. Cool. Other time. Awesome. Yeah. So I guess the other things are sort of around, like, questions I've asked before that I could go a little deeper on now that we have a little bit more time here. So, like networking and mindset stuff and things like that. I'm just in a place where I'm kind of feeling stuck. Partly because I don't have a ton of time these days. I actually have very little time. Hard to be following up with people that I've met with before. It's hard to be maintaining some of those networking relationships. And I was struggling with that before, even when I wasn't quite as busy. But I keep getting stuck in the like, maintaining relationships phase. Whether or not I'm busy, I am good at those initial, like one on one networking experiences. Like, I have such a great time. I leave feeling really good, get along with most of the people I meet with and then the people I do end up, like, staying in touch with and becoming more friends with. I feel like none of those have translated into actually getting referrals. And then the rest of the people, it's just hard to stay in touch with everybody. Like I've met with so many people. Right. Yeah. So I. I guess I don't really know what to do with that at this because I know networking is really important and I enjoy it. I just have limited time and energy for it.

[Alison]

Yeah. So I would get really strategic. So like, let's say you really loved hanging out with Susie, who is also like in a similar stage of building clientele. I would not. If because your time is limited, I would rather you follow back up with Rachel, who you also really liked but is full and needs somebody. See similar clients need somebody to refer to. Or John, who's a couples therapist who sees like the couples of your individual person. So I would just be. Even if you really love Susie, it's. If you have limited time, it's looking at like, who all. Who else did you enjoy that's actually going to be able to help you right now. You can keep Suzy on your list, you know, and maybe that's just a quick, hey, how's it going? Text or email, but not necessarily like a let's meet for coffee. Let's, you know, do whatever. But to use your time in a way that if networking, if you are networking not just to make friends, but to build your practice. Really being strategic.

[Adina]

Yeah. Yeah. I think when it comes to, like, networking with other therapists, most of the people I've ended up meeting are not necessarily full or, like, overly full, where they're like, okay, I'm at a good point. I'm not really getting people in, but I'm like, you know, doing well right now. So it's not like they really have people to send my way. A lot of those people. And so, like, I've been networking with, like, some dietitians, but I'm not, like, an eating disorder therapist. And some of the people I've met, like, are in the eating disorder space because those are the ones I just end up finding.

[Alison]

Right.

[Adina]

And, you know, they see people who don't have eating disorders as well. Like, people who. Who come to them, but, like, some of them have their own therapist or whatever it is. I've also, like, been networking with, like, nurse practitioners, couple psychiatrists, like, people who have gotten along really well with and who are like, I want to send people your way. Maybe I just need to follow up with them a little bit more on their radar, I guess with them. I feel like so many of the ones I've talked to there, they either have people that they refer to also who, like, seems like nobody else is overflowing to the point of, like, okay, let's think of Adina and, like, refer to her. But also, I think they're the ones. Many of the nurse practitioners I've met with are the ones who have, like, so many people on their caseload, and so therefore, they have less time to network. And so I think I, like, I keep getting stuck in that. I know, like you've mentioned before, I can send an article or like a meme or just like a hey, thinking of you sort of email. I am so bad at just, like, sending random little things to people. I am so much better at, like, connecting one on one, like, in real time. Yeah, maybe that's a little bit of where I'm getting stuck. I'm like, they're busy. They don't have a ton of time. I'm not going to bother them to, like, meet up once a month. But also, like, how do I connect authentically with People in between those one on ones.

[Alison]

Yeah, well, and I wonder about making the one on ones as convenient as humanly possible. So when you think about times in your work or times of like friends or whomever that like have the kinds of jobs where it's back to back, like they're just slammed all the time. If you were to say, hey person, I would love to swing by and bring you some lunch and just check in and see how things are going. Which day is best for you for me to show up just to hang out for about 30 minutes. So it's not like I want to take up your entire lunch break, which you don't even get all of because maybe you're catching up on notes or da da, da. But like I want to swing by, I want to bring you food, you know, like it's a pretty cheap way to, to build your business is to buy somebody a lunch, you know, for the people that you genuinely get along with and really like who have your clients. So I might just do that once a month.

[Adina]

That's fair. Yeah. A lot of them are too far for me to easily meet up with them. Like a lot of the people I've met. So it would be like a lot of time and money for me to like get to where they are. Could that be like a. Can I order you coffee? And then we meet virtually one on one at. That's convenient for you.

[Alison]

Yeah. Or can I doordash you lunch? Because I think about like if they've got to eat.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

Then so like virtual lunch. I want to doordash you. Yeah, whatever you like, you know.

[Adina]

Okay. I like that. I think I felt like awkward about that because I'm like, I don't, I don't want to be like, let me buy your time is sort of what it feels like. But I know people do that in prison all the time.

[Alison]

Yeah, yeah. I mean it's. And especially like if they're stuck at work, you know.

[Adina]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alison]

And prescribers so often are just like so slammed and they have such huge caseloads and it's just so much.

[Adina]

Yeah, sure.

[Alison]

So that's. Yeah.

[Adina]

Okay, now that's helpful. This next part might be like my own weird mindset stuff, but I get caught up in. Okay, if I'm meeting, let's say I have like four or five different like nurse practitioners or psychiatrists that I know and like which I probably have like around that number. I can't refer to all of them. And so like it feels very one sided if like I'M hoping that they refer to me. I know like, all the stuff about, like, I'm helping them because their clients need support and stuff. I'm just so stuck, I think, in that mindset of, like, I'm taking advantage, they're doing this for me and I'm doing nothing for them because, like, they want clients too, even if they're pretty full. A lot of the people I've talked to are like, yeah, people are always in and out. Or I have a lot of like, once a month, people are once every three months. And so, like, yes, I'm taking on more clients. So yeah, I really get stuck in that mindset of I am taking advantage sort of thing. I'm not giving anything back to them because I'm not also going to be the person who's going to collaborate with like a nurse practitioner, a dietitian, another therapist, and be like, let's put on this group together, this presentation. Because, like, hard. No for me. So I feel like there's very little I'm giving them, even though I'm like, tell me what you need. I'm here to support, like, and I am truly happy to support like. I really am. I want to build other people up to not feel good. But nobody's asking me for help or for anything that I can do. So. Yeah. What are your thoughts?

[Alison]

Yeah, well, I mean, I think while they might be taking on clients, they also know that most therapy clients aren't getting meds.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

So it. Whereas depending on the prescriber, like the prescribers I tend to work with, most of their clients are in therapy too.

[Adina]

Okay.

[Alison]

So I think there is a kind of a unidirectional situation. And when you do have a client that needs a prescriber, then I want you to think of those people and like, truly the best fit for this client.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

And you will end up referring to all of them. If you genuinely like them, then there will be people, like some people who just have more of the same flavor as this person than this person. And so you're going to refer to this first person. So you will, over the course of your career, probably refer to all of them so much. But for right now, it's just not what you can do. And you are bringing them, you're like sending them lunch, you know, you're doordashing them lunch. So you are giving them something.

[Adina]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. No, that it's helpful to look at it like that. I think I think of it as such a short term thing. I'M like, if I want them to send me clients, then don't I have to do something for them too? But it's not, like, transactional like that. But I think I'm so. Like, many of us therapists, I'm so used to, like, I don't need to ask for anything until I do something.

[Alison]

Right. I'm the giver.

[Adina]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alison]

It's interesting, right, that there's almost a sometimes a not deserving for people. Like, I don't deserve to have your help until I've helped you. So for some people, it's deserving for, like. And you're like, it's not transactional because you're building real relationships with them.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

And so it really isn't transactional as you're. You know, just like, our friendships aren't transactional. I don't expect my friend to buy me coffee because I got hers last time, you know?

[Adina]

Yeah. That is a fair point. Yeah. That. That one's really stuck in my head. So I. I'm gonna listen back to this and, like, let that really sink in, too, because you're right. Like, I know. And this is what I'd be talking to my clients about, too, if they were stuck in the same headspace. But it's just so hard to internalize that, you know, as I'm working on building my practice, I'm like, who am I to ask people for help? Not that I'm going to. Anybody saying, like, refer to me, please refer. Like, I'm not approaching it like that. Yeah. In my head, I'm like, underneath, there's this part where I'm asking for clients indirectly.

[Alison]

Mm.

[Adina]

And so. Yeah. It's just so hard not to get caught up in the. Like, I technically am asking for clients, and I shouldn't be doing that, but, like, I'm doing them a service too. I know that.

[Alison]

Yeah. You really, truly are.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

And I would say, as a group, therapists aren't great at asking for help.

[Adina]

Yeah. Also, you know. Yeah.

[Alison]

So it's feeling like you are indirectly asking for help also feels, like, deceptive in some way, even though, like, you're really just building a relationship. You are reaching out to them because you have this private practice, but you're reaching out to them again because you like them. So. And you do need to be strategic because you don't have a ton of time. So I would focus on the prescribers because they have many more people they can send you than the average therapist will, especially if the therapist you're talking to Are also trying to get full or stay full.

[Adina]

Yeah. And then the ones who are full, the therapists I know or have met who are full are like, I want to start a group practice. And I'm like, great. I fully support them. And I'm like, tell me what you need from me to help you. And I'm excited hearing about, like, them being at that stage. And I'm like, oh, I wonder if I could get there to. I don't want to run a group practice necessarily, but to the point of, like, oh, I could run a group practice because I'm so full. Oh, great. Like, the ones who are full are just like, I'm going to take it to the next level. And yeah. I have not. I found it really difficult to, like, find the therapists who are full who are not taking that next step either.

[Alison]

Yeah. And I will say to anybody listening or watching, it's not the next step. Please only do a group practice if you love to manage peers.

[Adina]

I know.

[Alison]

Please. I have so many clients because of shitty group practices where it felt like the next step and the person running it doesn't actually have a big interest in mentorship for therapists or leadership with therapists.

[Adina]

They.

[Alison]

It just felt like the next step and felt like it made sense financially when the profit margins are extremely slim.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

For group practice, if you're paying people appropriately.

[Adina]

Right, Exactly. Which is why so many of those group practices don't pay people appropriately. Right. Yeah.

[Alison]

And so many go under. I mean, it's. I have seen so many group practices go under lately. So all that to say for anybody who's talked to Adina and is excited about the next step. Maybe the next step is giving Adina.

[Adina]

Referrals is the next step.

[Alison]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adina]

Love that. Thank you. Yeah. So, yeah. Okay. So focusing more on the, like, prescribers, maybe continuing with dietitians because, like, the people I work with tend to, you know, need a good dietitian who is conscious of, like, things like intuitive eating and health and at every size and all of that.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Adina]

You know, they're not the. My best fit clients are not the ones with eating disorders because that is not my specialty. But like, many people have disordered eating as.

[Alison]

Oh, my gosh.

[Adina]

Yes. Yeah.

[Alison]

Most of us.

[Adina]

Yeah. Right.

[Alison]

I'm disorder.

[Adina]

Exactly. That's just like the barn. Right. So I find that, like, having great dietitians to refer to is really awesome and has felt really good to give those names to my clients to be like, here I know this great person or several great people who could be great. Fits in different ways, like, let's talk to them. And so like, I've tried to make some referrals, but, you know, there are people, like most of my clients are still like insurance clients. I'm in network, still with one insurance. And so some of the dietitians I know, many of them are out of network. And so like selling that of like, you're still technically using insurance, but like network benefits and all that, you know, can be tough. And so then on the other side, like the dietitians I know, like I said before, they have people that they refer to and that's where they get a lot of their clients, I think, from like therapists they know. And so I'm like, what am I doing wrong? How do I choose the right people? Because like, I love talking to these people. I have such a great time, have good relationships with them. But yeah, it's just that balance again. Right. Like, how do I find these people who, how do I know where to invest my time? I guess because I don't always know whether the person I'm meeting with has other people they tend to refer to. So I, I think that's another area where I'm getting stuck of like, I think this will be like a good back and forth referral person, but I don't really know. And then it like doesn't pan out in that way, at least for a while. Is that like a.

[Alison]

Are you. Or like, is it a wet thing?

[Adina]

Like a patience thing? Of like, I can't expect in the first three months that they're going to refer to me, you know, I mean.

[Alison]

It is definitely a planting seeds thing. I have heard very rarely of people who like met somebody and then got a referral within the next couple weeks. It's really about building that relationship. And they get to know you as a person and they're like, oh my God, my friend Adina would be so good for this person. Instead of like that therapist I met, Adina would be so good for this person. I wonder too if at some point in the relationship it makes sense to directly ask for a referral or to say, like, the summer's been really slow for referrals for me. What about you?

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

And if they're like, oh, no, like it's been fine for me, you could just be like, well, you send anybody over that you think you need, you know, think would be a good fit, you know, like, because you have a relationship with them. So it's not, it's not transactional because you're already buddies, you know.

[Adina]

Yeah, that's fair because I'd be fine if they said that to me. But like, that brought up something in me. I just had a, like an internal reaction, like, yeah, say more.

[Alison]

Why not?

[Adina]

Yeah, no, I know I can say that and I probably would if I was close enough to them, but maybe I feel like I have to be a certain level of close to, like, have that openness with my close friends. I would totally say that.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Adina]

Yeah. It's like an I'm asking too much kind of thing. I'm asking too directly. And you're not supposed to ask directly.

[Alison]

It depends. Like, I don't think you have to be besties to say it's been really slow for me referral wise this summer. What about you?

[Adina]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alison]

I would say that to any therapist I met, any dietitian, you know, of course, I have these conversations all day, so maybe that's not a fair thing to say. But. But to bring it up because they're in a similar industry.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

Of like, have summer's been. Or has this summer been slower for you than it was last summer?

[Adina]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alison]

And if they're like, yeah, it's been weird, but like. Yeah, well, how about this? If I find somebody, like, if I have a client that's a great fit, I'm sending them your way. If you have a client that's my. A good fit for me, then I'd love them.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

You know, so it's just like, you're both in business. You can commiserate some.

[Adina]

True.

[Alison]

And you're not twisting their arm. Like, they can also say like, yeah, totally, and then not do it if they don't want to send you people.

[Adina]

Right.

[Alison]

So.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

But sometimes just like putting it out there because people don't know what your caseload is like.

[Adina]

True, true. And no, that's a fair point. And I could totally see myself jokingly, half jokingly saying like, oh, yeah, send them my way. You know, without actually saying, hey, I need clients. Send them my way. Right. Yeah.

[Alison]

And if you're saying it's been a slow referral season, then, like, they know you need clients.

[Adina]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alison]

And it doesn't mean you're like, it's been a slow referral season. I'm scared to look at my bank account. You know, like, you're not doing that. You're just being like, damn, that sucks.

[Adina]

Yeah, Very fair. Okay. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Adina]

I'm going to sit with a lot of this later too, because I, I need to explore what else is coming up. Because, like, I. Like, yes, I can totally see myself saying that. And also, there's still this part of me that's like, ooh. But I can't give them anything. And so I think I just need to. Like, I'm gonna need to go back and sit with all this, like I said. Yeah.

[Alison]

I'd also love you to think of one of your close friends, and I want you to write down every nice thing either of you have ever done for each other to make sure it's even.

[Adina]

Oh, my gosh. Right?

[Alison]

Like, that's. That's how it's sounding to me. Because it's not like, yes, these people aren't your closest friends, but they are people you get along with.

[Adina]

Right.

[Alison]

And you're not coming in with finger guns. You know? Like, you're not like, hey, you look like somebody who should refer to me.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

You're developing a relationship. You're being honest about your experience.

[Adina]

Yeah. I appreciate that. Thank you. I probably just need to, like, hear it again. Like, again, I'm gonna listen back to all this and just, like, let it sink in even more, because it's getting there. It's good. Yeah. I just. I think also it's like, I. In order for it to truly sink in, I need to practice it. I need to go out there and just do it and let it be super uncomfortable and then get over it eventually, because, yeah, that's how it felt with, like, cold emailing people and calling people. Like, I have no problem reaching out to people now and being like, hey, want to hang out? Yeah. That was so awkward for me before, but it's just so, like, normal now. I've even set up a couple of, like, mini therapist meetups before, just, like, a few people and, like, just feel so good about it. And I would never do that before.

[Alison]

Yeah. It's amazing how that's most of practice building.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

Is the anticipation of the thing being so much worse than the actual thing, and once you've done it a few times, you've acclimated, it's fine.

[Adina]

Yeah, fair point. So, yeah, that's what I'm gonna have to do then.

[Alison]

Awesome.

[Adina]

Since we have a few minutes, I. I figure I can also.

[Alison]

See if.

[Adina]

You have any more thoughts. I know I brought this up in, like, a Q and A call, one of our, like, group calls a couple months ago. I've been doing SEO, outsourcing SEO, and I've been blogging weekly for almost a year. Started SEO specifically last November, but blogging since last August. Not really seeing progress. Like, I'm seeing progress in, like, the data, but not numbers of, like, you know, moving up in Google and all that stuff. Not seeing more people come my way. I have not had, like, organic people reach out. I know I have to, like, keep talking to them about it because I know a lot has changed with Google. But I guess, like, as I've been reworking my niche a bit, I'm wondering, like, do I target different keywords? And I know that's not like, your area, area of specialty SEO or anything, and, like, that's something I can brainstorm with them, but wanted to see if you had any thoughts on any of this.

[Alison]

Yeah. Okay. So you're moving up in the rankings. Are you on the first page any with any of your keywords?

[Adina]

Some of them, yeah. They, like, track for a bunch of versions of the, like, keywords.

[Alison]

And are you getting decent number of clicks for those keywords that you were on the first page of Google for?

[Adina]

It's okay. Yeah.

[Alison]

Okay.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

So, like, what I'm. What I'm kind of assessing right now is, like, if a good number of people are landing on your website and they're not calling you, then the problem is your website.

[Adina]

That's what I'm concerned about. So it's not like a crazy amount of people I'm getting, like. Especially with the changes to Google, the numbers went down a bit. So, yeah, I'm not getting, like, an insane number there. That's why I'm stuck in the. Is it my website or is it the search terms or does the search term that we're really targeting? I don't know. Is that right for the people that are really a good fit for my practice?

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Adina]

Yeah. And when I ask other therapists or other people, I know everybody's like, your website's great. And that's why I'm like, I don't. And I spoke to my SEO person and she looked over my website. She also was not super concerned about it being my website versus, like, the amount of clicks. I think I'm kind of stuck. And so I'm also thinking, like, what else would I do if it wasn't. If SEO wasn't the thing? I mean, I'm going to keep it going for a little longer because I'm in New York. It's hard, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's going to take a while.

[Alison]

If this was Oklahoma, I'd be like a whole year and you're not up on the range, you know, but, yeah, yeah.

[Adina]

So, like, not too abnormal, I guess. Yeah.

[Alison]

Yeah. And I will. I will look at your website sometime soon and just get back with you about it. But if they're not like, oh, it's the website's fault. Because if you do. If you do SEO and there's an opportunity to blame it on something that's not SEO, like, you would probably do that. Right. If it was. If there was concern and you weren't super ethical. So there was an in for that person and they were like, no, you're not getting enough clients clicks for me to worry about your website. So it's probably more like you need to find other ways to get people there in conjunction with the SEO. So I might be looking at the marketing fundamentals, too. Course. And seeing which of those appeals to you most.

[Adina]

Just like every other. Like, I got used to blogging. I thought I was not gonna, like, takes up a lot of time. But, like, I. I've been enjoying it to an extent. I don't like how much time it takes and how stressful that can be.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Adina]

And where my own perfectionism shows up in it. But I do kind of like the process of going through it really. Like, the other marketing things, they're just, like, they're not totally for me and take energy that I. I don't specifically want to give to, like, those strategies. I will go back and. And reassess. But, like, these were my ones. I. I might also try some other directories aside from Psychology Today, because I know we had. And I'll rework my Psychology Today too, as I've, like, rethought my niche a little bit. But, yeah, I know you had recommended looking at search terms that my clients might search and then seeing whether directories come up or websites or whatever.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Adina]

So, yeah, there were a few websites that came up. I just. I always get stuck. And we'll have to pause in a second, but I just get stuck with, like, what are my clients looking? So.

[Alison]

Yeah.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

So what I want you to do for that is to, like, clear your mind and really listen to your sessions.

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

Especially the people you just started working with.

[Adina]

Okay.

[Alison]

And just jot down a few notes after each of, like, where. Where were they when they first called?

[Adina]

Yeah.

[Alison]

What was going on for them?

[Adina]

I appreciate that.

[Alison]

Yeah. Awesome. I will see you later.

[Adina]

Really appreciate it. Take care. Bye.

[Alison]

If you're ready for a much easier practice, therapy notes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code abundant for two months free. If you're listening. You probably need some support building your practice. If you're a super newbie, grab our free checklist using the link in the show notes. I'd love for you to follow rate and review, but I really want you to share this episode with a therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.