Participant 1 (2:39)

Gotcha.

Allison (2:41)

Whereas if I am going to use my insurance, sometimes good enough is good enough, you know. So yeah. And because you also don't have insurance feeding you people you've Got to, you've got to work harder to be found.

Participant 1 (2:56)

Okay, and then my next question is, I did start off on some of the therapy platforms and I now want to start transitioning off of those. I did get credentialed with two insurances on my own just because there are higher paying insurances. And then I prefer to be able to answer all of my clients questions and just do the billing myself because it just sounds safer. And so what steps would you encourage me to take to step away from the therapy platforms?

Allison (3:39)

I've been helping so many people do this lately, so this is a good, it's a good question. So I would you need a timeline. So at what point does it feel safe to step away if you're staying on the insurance that people on the platform are using? If those are insurances that you've gotten individually credentialed with, then that's going to be fairly smooth. Those people are pretty likely to stay with you. But there is this certain fear that everybody's going to have when they make the transition. You are going to lose some people. That's okay. So figuring out financially exactly what you need so that you're not holding your breath, creating any sort of cushion you can around savings so that not only are you not holding your breath because you're bringing in enough to cover everything, but you have some savings that you can count on just in case for those anxious moments you can be like, yeah, yeah, gotcha, yeah. And I'll also say, I know that this is, I'm telling the ideal. Not everybody can create that situation by the time they feel like they really need to get off these platforms. So like this is the ideal. You're not in a huge rush, things aren't super toxic kind of a situation. I would go really hard on all your marketing. So be so clear about your niche, so clear on your five marketing strategies and do them so consistently. Most people, because it's been like a really weird year for referrals almost across the board, I would look at like, is there some consistency you can count on? Can you count on two clients a month? And if you can, if month after month you're getting two or more clients a month, then you can almost rely on it. It's going to be janky in the summer, it's going to be janky in December for some of us. But knowing that there's enough consistency that after X number of months you're going to be full, it's going to be great. Looking at how long your ideal clients typ stay with you. Some of us do really short, short term therapy in every four sessions. They're done.

Karen (5:44)

Yeah.

Allison (5:44)

And that requires a lot more marketing. And then some of us have clients that stay with us for years. So looking at your average length of treatment.

Participant 1 (5:51)

Gotcha.

Allison (5:52)

So it's a lot of numbers, but they're all like therapist friendly numbers. There's no trigonometry.

Participant 2 (5:57)

Yeah.

Participant 1 (5:57)

Yeah.

Allison (5:58)

No calculus involved. Just a lot of multiplication and division and stuff.

Participant 1 (6:01)

Pretty much thinking about how things are flowing now to make, Create my timeline.

Allison (6:06)

Yeah. And if you're like, oh, I don't feel like there's consistency, then I want you to increase your marketing in whichever areas are working best.

Participant 1 (6:15)

Okay, got it. And then I think my next question is one of the next steps I wanted to take in marketing because I do really well with like virtual things, but my heart skips the beat when I think about like going to like a doctor's office or, or things like that, which I think would be good because my niches for, you know, the burnt out mom, the working mom, trying to balance all the things. And so I want it to begin networking, like doctor's offices. But I get really nervous. I mean I'm, I'm willing to do it, but like what would be like, I guess the easiest way to start that.

Allison (7:08)

Yeah. So phone.

Participant 1 (7:10)

Okay.

Allison (7:10)

It's the easiest way. So I would think about your ideal client and what her complaints are at the doctor.

Karen (7:16)

Okay.

Allison (7:16)

She might not be saying, I'm burned out. She might be saying like, I think I need some blood work because I'm just like so fatigued.

Karen (7:22)

Okay.

Allison (7:22)

Like I'm so tired. This is super common. Like every PCP has many, many women in their office today that is struggling with fatigue. So it may be related to mental health stuff, it may not. But thinking about your ideal client and what she's presenting with, writing down a script. Because the medical model is very different from our chatty, chatty way of being. And so write your script out and say, I'd like to talk to the referral coordinator. Some offices are going to have one, some aren't. Some are going to have like the front desk staff. And if they're like, we don't have one, you say, okay, great. Who do I talk to about referrals?

Karen (8:02)

Okay.

Allison (8:03)

And it'll probably be front desk staff if they don't have a referral coordinator or perhaps a nurse. And I want you to have like a nice tight spiel. Okay. Like, hi, I'm Claire. And I'm Clarin. I'M Karen. So tight you can't even say your name right. I'm Karen. And you know, I work. I'm a therapist in town. I work with women who are feeling really fatigued and really overwhelmed and it's starting to impact their well being. They're usually moms. And I know that a lot of my clients end up in doctor's offices that are doing blood work for them or like checking things out. So I wanted to see what would be a good next step for getting on your referral list.

Participant 1 (8:43)

Okay. Awesome.

Karen (8:44)

Awesome.

Allison (8:46)

All right. So you don't have to just like show up with cookies or something like that.

Participant 1 (8:52)

Okay.

Allison (8:53)

I would start with your own doctor's office if possible. If you have kids, your kids, pediatrician's office. And think about like these women are likely talking to their PCPs or their gynecologists about that.

Karen (9:08)

Okay.

Allison (9:12)

So often one PCP's office that really trusts you. And this is a big. They have a large number of these clients, probably because this is a lot of women in America, then I mean, even just one could fill your practice mostly. Okay. If you're more likely to get insurance based clients from these doctors off, like in a typical doctor's office, you could also go to concierge practices, that or naturopaths, functional medicine docs. So I would think about your ideal clients and where they go. Okay. And yeah, I think you'll be, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Some of them may be really bruised because they're busy. It's not personal. Gotcha. Some of like, nobody's gonna wanna chit chat, but if you keep it really tight and you're able to like send them whatever they ask for, whether it's credentials, whether it's just cards in the mail, whatever. Okay. If they're like, oh, you could send us some cards, I would go with the cards and just be like, hey, we spoke yesterday, here are my cards.

Participant 1 (10:19)

Okay. Awesome. All right. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Allison (10:24)

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Daniel. Next. Hey. Hey. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Karen (10:30)

Yeah.

Allison (10:31)

So I have just, I have two.

Participant 3 (10:33)

Questions, and one is when you look over your whole business empire that you have built, what do you feel.

Participant 1 (10:42)

Has.

Participant 3 (10:42)

Been like a game changer? Either marketing tool or resource, something you did to really help grow your business, where you saw like the needle move.

Allison (10:52)

Yeah. So when you talk about the whole empire, you talking about abundance or you talk about my practice? Because those are going to be different answers. Right.

Participant 3 (10:58)

I put both here, but I didn't know if I didn't Know if I had time. So I said, for your practice. And then also abundance.

Allison (11:05)

Okay, cool. So for my practice, hands down, it's networking and forming real relationships. Often when I say networking, everybody thinks of if you guys read my newsletter, like a one night stand, right? Like you go out and you have coffee with someone one time and that was great. The end. Now they're supposed to send me referrals and it does not happen like that, by and large. Instead it's like kind of like dating. Like you go out on a lot of coffee dates with people or zoom dates or whatever and you decide, yeah, this was a really easy connection. Like Daniel and I could have talked for four hours. And that's the person that you then invest more time in getting to know and actually create a real friendship with because you really like them, because it's easy and you're not having to fake it. And in that relationship, you're going to trust each other with referrals. A kind of tricky part that happens is sometimes people who are starting their business or starting their practice end up feeling that way about other people who are starting their practice. And so there's not a lot of referrals that go on at first until both of them get full. And so that can be tricky. So making sure you're reaching out to some old timers too, who have been open for a long time or full for a long time and building like genuine connection with them and you don't need to reach back out and nurture the relationships with people where it felt stilted or awkward. And if it had been a date, you would not have wanted them to ask you on a second date. Right? So just real connection. So connection, I guess, is the answer for abundance. And that has worked in three different states. That has worked in like all my clients for the most part have really, who have really thrown themselves into networking are like, yeah, that's the game changer for me. So yeah, so that for abundance. For abundance, I'd say perseverance, because online business is a totally different animal. And I really, really thought that it was going to be like a just slightly more intense version of private practice from a like marketing and business development standpoint. But it is another animal. My experience with abundance is part of why I'm like, y' all really need to not start a different income stream outside of your practice until your practice is exactly where you want it because it's another full time job to get something off the ground. I've been marketing abundance five days a week for 11 years almost. So it is full on. And if you don't love what you're doing, if you're not truly excited to build this thing, it's not gonna bring you money because there's just so much banging your head against walls that if it's just for money, you can, like, optimize the hell out of your practice and make it amazing. So I would much rather you have a simpler life if you're not on fire about this other income stream. So, yeah, perseverance, because it's had really hard moments in abundance. Yeah, that's great.

Participant 3 (13:53)

My second question was, and I don't know if you label yourself as a coach when it comes to abundance, but that's where I was.

Karen (14:01)

Okay.

Participant 3 (14:02)

When it comes to being a therapist or being a coach, what do you feel like most therapists or coaches are missing that they could be doing more of?

Allison (14:11)

Ooh. With therapy, it's harder. Right. Because there are so many different modalities. Right. So I don't know what's missing from psychoanalysis.

Participant 1 (14:21)

Right.

Allison (14:21)

So I don't know if your practice is where you want it and you're, you know, I don't know clinically what you're missing. But I can say with coaching, what gets missed is because it's such a different model. I see a lot of coaches out there looking desperate. Nobody is attracted to desperation. And so when they're trying to get clients in, there's like a. I'm going to distinguish this from being annoying. I'm willing to be annoying in abundance. I will send you 500 emails about something whose doors are closing today because I truly believe that for the people who join, it's going to change their world. I'm willing to be annoying there, but I see coaches start there and when it doesn't get what they want it, they kind of get almost like, blamey and whiny. So they'll be like, I saw one the other day. I'm really going to need your support in order to keep this going. And, like, people don't care about you keeping it going. Like, that's your job. Your job is to serve them, not for them to help you. And so, because it's harder to be found in the coaching world than it is in the therapy world. I have a good friend who's a psychologist who started a coaching business. She's brilliant. She's amazing at everything she does. And she was like, I really took for granted the credibility afforded to me just by virtue of being a licensed therapist, being a psychologist. She's like these people who want to do a discovery call with me for coaching immediately don't trust me. And that was never my case with like somebody wanting to have a free consult with me as a therapist. So I would say for both being really clear that if you're a therapist in your therapist job, you're a therapist and you're not using coaching, you might be using some of the same things you use in coaching from a, like how you're working with clients, but you're not using coaching. You know, you keep your therapist's boundaries, you keep your therapist's marketing. And when you're a coach, you just have a lot more leeway, frankly. And so that can like, you can use testimonials, you can use things that really help people decide to choose you. But ultimately what I see for people is it's easier for them to get chosen as a therapist in private practice than as a coach out in the world.

Participant 3 (16:39)

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Allison (16:40)

Yeah, absolutely.

Karen (16:43)

Let's see.

Allison (16:44)

Lavelle. Hi.

Karen (16:46)

Hi, Allison. So I don't know that I have super specific questions, but maybe just some reminders of, of where to head. So I, I'm seeing couples primarily now see some individuals still. But my marketing is primarily to couples. And I know we have talked previously about niching down from couples that couples isn't an. And I know that. And I for a while I had kind of niche to kind of conscious uncoupling and people who are going through the divorce process and, or separation process or whatever. I'm not finding that that's where I want to go. And so I'm still just really general couples and haven't found like a niche that feels like I can maintain that for a long time kind of thing. Other. Other than that.

Allison (17:44)

Okay.

Karen (17:45)

And I just got a new office and so I'm ready to just really build, build, build. Yeah. So just a reminder of where to head. I haven't been able to be consistent with social media. I have social media, but I haven't been able to be consistent with that. So I definitely have a website. I definitely have Psychology Today networking wise. My plan is now the school started and all us moms are a little bit more free to do like a. Just to initiate a weekly coffee for therapists and to invite all my friends. Like that's, that's like that feels a little bit more doable than, you know, coffee with one person and one person and one person and one person. So I think I'm going to initiate just a therapy therapist Tuesdays coffee.

Allison (18:38)

Yeah.

Karen (18:39)

Kind of thing. And just kind of consistently invite people to that to build, like you're saying, real friendships. That feels like doable as far as Mark, as far as networking. But, you know, do I do the doctor's offices? Do I do the, you know. Yeah, just thoughts on where to head with that?

Allison (19:01)

Yeah, well, I. I want more specificity with the niche first. So I think it might be. Well, what model are you using?

Karen (19:09)

Primarily with couples probably closest to eft. Not Gottman as much, but more eft.

Allison (19:18)

Okay. And what's your favorite anxious attachment, avoidant attachment combo? Like, what's your favorite kind of couple from that lens?

Karen (19:28)

Oh, probably that.

Allison (19:32)

Okay. Okay. That in and of itself, when we put it in client language, is a niche.

Karen (19:37)

Okay.

Allison (19:38)

Like that. Push, pull that. Like, I can't get enough. I need some space. Just talking about that dynamic really clearly on your website. That's a niche.

Karen (19:49)

Oh, yeah.

Allison (19:51)

Because the niche is the problem. Yeah, the niche is the problem. And that's the problem for them. Right. And you know, we mix in some communication issues and, you know, just some maybe family of origin stuff that is kind of just all of us have family of origin stuff.

Karen (20:08)

Right.

Allison (20:08)

And there's a clarity there that you can then spring from.

Karen (20:14)

So the way I would describe how I work more is this. This may sound silly, but inner child couples therapy. So I am working a lot with inner child experiences, family of origin, childhood wounds, that kind of thing, and bringing that into the relationship dynamic. Like, where. Where is that coming from? What is coming up? Does everybody do this or is this just me?

Allison (20:40)

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of us do it, but. So here's my question. From a marketing perspective, is that what your ideal clients are interested in before they meet you?

Karen (20:51)

My ideal client, it. What they say when they come in is we just need to learn how to communicate better. Every single one of them.

Allison (21:00)

Right, okay, perfect.

Karen (21:02)

But what they mean is. And I say to them, I can teach you communication in five minutes. The problem is that your inner child stuff comes up and you can't. You just. You're triggered and you know all the things. So you can't communicate the way you know you're supposed to. So are you willing to go there? And they say, yes, absolutely. We want to know why we're reacting like this.

Allison (21:29)

Okay, good. So what they want is to communicate.

Karen (21:33)

Yes, that's what they say when they come in.

Allison (21:36)

So from a marketing perspective, that's where you go, okay, I don't think you need to bring up inner child work. Because until they've sat across from you and they trust you, they're gonna be like, like, I think about like an avoidant attachment. Yes. It's gonna roll their eyes, this white hat male, like being like, what the fuck? You know, I'm talking to my inner child. But once they've sat across from you or virtually sat across from you, and they are like, okay, yeah, that's totally true. I do. Like, I can learn how to communicate, but I can't seem to make myself do it. And that opens them up. Okay, so it's like communication. Yeah, yeah. Talk about communication. Talk about that dynamic that this couple has with the anxious and avoidant and they'll see themselves in it so that they'll choose you.

Karen (22:20)

Okay.

Allison (22:22)

And you can talk about, you know, like unhealed things potentially. I'd be careful with the language that you're vetting it through each person in the couple because inevitably there's going to be one person in the couple who's more down for it, you know, and the other person who's like, I don't even know what you're talking about right now. When you start talking about things like.

Karen (22:42)

Me had a great childhood.

Allison (22:46)

Right. My parents were fine. It was fine. Yeah.

Karen (22:51)

So, yeah, that's helpful. So doctor's offices and those kinds of things as well. Or really like focusing on the networking with other couples therapists, with other individuals there, but individual therapists.

Allison (23:07)

Yeah. I think it depends on your ideal client. Most of the time in couples, it's the woman looking and calling. So thinking about her and who is she talking to or what is she searching or where is she going when she's like, we need help. If she's googling, then it's SEO. If it's talking to her doctor because she's so stressed out she's about to snap, then it's her doctor. And you know, if she's searching and it's SEO, then it might be finding the other couple's therapist on the first page of Google, connecting with them because they maybe hopefully are full and can send you folks.

Karen (23:44)

Okay.

Allison (23:46)

Yeah, yeah. Farah.

Participant 2 (23:49)

Hi. So I'm trying to figure out spaces for doing more public speaking and speak around topics around my niche, which is the gentle souls who beat themselves up relentlessly and not feeling good enough, even though they've tried multiple things like traditional therapy, yoga, self help books. I thought about speaking in spaces where people might feel these issues. And one of them was like religious and spiritual spaces where they might not feel like deserving and I'm going to start speaking in like my own like Muslim spaces that I know in these issues. And I want to start speaking in other faith centers as well. But I feel like I might be like out of place. So I've thought about like coordinating with like you know, their spiritual leaders or pastors, rabbis or other folks and then, or bringing in another therapist who might belong in that faith. And then we speak about issues, those type of issues. And I don't know if that's, if you have a different approach or if you think that's okay. And also I'm trying to figure out other spaces as well, but I'm not really familiar. I mean I figured like my ideal client would go like to a yoga studio or maybe they would and maybe going to a doctor. But I'm trying to also I'm kind of blanking out on like what spaces would allow for public speaking, if that makes sense. And then I did have a small question. Business cards. I don't know whether or not to put a photo or maybe like a niche, like my niche in there too. So I don't know if you have any thoughts on that too.

Allison (25:30)

Yeah, I think a niche for sure because that also helps people remember. You put your name with your niche and then you can do a photo. I think when most people see photos on business cards, I think realtors, which is not a bad thing. But I think like I've seen them done well by therapists but I would definitely, if you had to choose, I'd put a niche over a picture. And in terms of spaces to speak, I think like a yoga studio, if they do workshops and things like that there, that could be good. I love the idea of faith communities, public libraries, depending on, depending on your library, that could be a good get and how it's marketed. Anybody else who has ideas also throw stuff in the chat. Think about college campuses, if there's one nearby. There are a lot of us sensitive folks out there, tender hearted people and it's a rough world. Having a good place to land, to process, that's important. Social media could be so good for you if you wanted to do it again. Don't have to, don't have to touch it with a 10 foot pole if you don't want to. Definitely other therapists I think also a lot of women therapists too because some people really are going to work better with a man, especially like a sensitive man. It feels so safe and affirming and like a corrective experience for some women. And some guys just really want to see a man. Yeah. So Danielle says reaching out to corporations that value workplace wellness, for sure. I think there's a lot of buzz around, like workplace wellness right now. We'll see how long it lasts as our economy tends to shift and change and if they're willing to keep paying for it. But that's often a workshop. You could do either one that you could get paid for and you could probably reach out to HR to start that conversation. They could direct you.

Participant 2 (27:33)

Okay.

Karen (27:34)

Yeah.

Participant 2 (27:35)

This is great. Thank you.

Allison (27:37)

Yeah, absolutely. Anybody else want to ask a question? We've got time for one more. It's okay to go again if somebody who hasn't gone isn't hopping in.

Participant 3 (27:49)

Someone hasn't gone. I have a question.

Allison (27:53)

We'll go for it, Danielle, because I think you raised your hand before anybody else did.

Participant 3 (27:57)

Okay, so my question is, and I'll be really quick, is so I have a coaching business that I started while last year that is thriving, is doing really, really well. I just got my license as a therapist a month ago.

Allison (28:09)

Oh, congrats.

Participant 3 (28:10)

So now.

Karen (28:11)

Thank you.

Participant 3 (28:12)

So now I'm figuring out, okay, I, I paused marketing on my coaching, but I'm still seeing my clients in coaching to build my therapy practice. And so I want to figure out how are you managing your schedule and what that looks like because I do want both of these businesses to move and go. But I'm just like, oh my gosh.

Allison (28:36)

Like, this is a lot.

Participant 3 (28:38)

I'm already like very full time with coaching, which is really good. But the therapy piece is also. Is something I would not let go of. People tell me just let it go. I would not. I just, I'm passionate about it.

Karen (28:48)

Yeah.

Participant 3 (28:48)

So I just want to know how you're managing your schedule, your time with that.

Allison (28:52)

Let's like, yeah, how about I tell. I tell you to do as I do and. Or do as I say, not as I do. Because in my ideal world and when I've had the best boundaries around it, I've had like a day or a part of a day that is distinctly for therapy and a day or a part of the day that is distinctly for not boring Cs and then the rest of the time is abundance, basically. And that is when I feel most grounded and most clear headed. And it is 100% like the best schedule for me. Now I get I'm the one who's messing that up sometimes. Like, it's not like my team's not putting people in the wrong times. They're kind of on me for putting people in the wrong time. So it's that task shifting because it is a different mindset to be coaching than it is to be doing therapy. And I think that it is safer in that distinction to have different times or different days for each so that you don't kind of slide into therapy mode when you're coaching or vice versa. But like, today I had two therapy sessions and then lunch and then this. So this is. I'm breaking my own rule today as we speak. So.

Participant 1 (29:59)

Awesome.

Allison (30:00)

Thank you.

Participant 3 (30:00)

Thank you.

Allison (30:01)

Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you, everybody, for coming. And yeah, I'm around. For those of you in the party, feel free to ask questions in the Facebook group. If you're not in the party, then, I mean, join us. It's awesome.

Participant 1 (30:16)

Great.

Allison (30:16)

I'll see y' all later.

Karen (30:18)

Bye.

Allison (30:21)

Thanks for listening in on a live Ask Allison, sponsored by our friends at TherapyNotes. If you'd like to join us for the next one, send an email to helpbundancepracticebuilding.com and we'll send you the link. If you're listening, you probably need some support building your practice. If you're a super newbie, grab our free checklist using the link link in the show Notes. I'd love for you to follow, rate and review, but I really want you to share this episode with a therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.