Allison (1:45)

Hi everybody.

Therapist Client 2 (1:47)

Good morning.

Allison (1:48)

Come on. Good morning. Good morning. All right, let's see. I'm going to keep an eye on letting people in as they come, but we can go ahead and get started while other people join us. Y' all get first dibs. What questions do you have? What would be most helpful?

Therapist Client 2 (2:08)

I'll go ahead and start.

Allison (2:09)

Love it.

Therapist Client 2 (2:10)

Hi, Good morning everyone. Hope everyone's staying warm. So the the question that I have is I just to give you some quick background. Kindergarten teacher for about 10 years. Absolutely loved the job. Transitioned to a school counselor for about three years during the pandemic. That's a joke. You don't really get council, so. But I still love working with that population of kiddos. So fast forward. I'm in my first year of solo practice, but I want to set up a mindfulness course for children of that age. While working on my solo practice, I want to Earn some extra income. Scratch that. Working with the primary kiddos itch. And provide support to that population. But I don't want to burn myself out.

Allison (3:01)

Yeah.

Therapist Client 2 (3:01)

So just kind of wanting to know, what are your thoughts? I'm hoping to do maybe two classes a month for like maybe an hour, hour, 15 minutes, maybe every other Saturday.

Allison (3:11)

Mm. So would it be local? It sounds like. Or no, it's online, so it's.

Therapist Client 2 (3:15)

No, this is going to be local. Yes, local.

Allison (3:17)

Perfect. Okay. So I was going to say if you're wanting to do like a whole online situation, like a course online, I.

Therapist Client 2 (3:25)

Would say would be next.

Allison (3:26)

Now is not the time for that simply because that's, that's veering into online business and that's going to be an enormous amount of work. So like you're knocking on burnout store right there. You really have to get your practice exactly where you want it as like and easy as humanly possible before you want to venture into anything like that. But an in person, like under the umbrella of your practice course for mindfulness.

Therapist Client 1 (3:53)

Yes.

Allison (3:54)

I think it's, it's gonna come down to your really great connections that you already have because you were a school counselor. You might, I don't know if you know this because you were one, but it's really hard to get in with a school counselor as a private practice therapist. And once you're in, you're kind of like in, but you're already in, so that's great. So you will be able to get referrals from them. It's a matter of kind of the value proposition. How are you going to make this course sound good to the parents who are going to take their time out of their Saturday to get their kids there?

Therapist Client 2 (4:27)

So I've already created a workbook called Finding your calm or Finding my calm. And that's going to be the name of the workshop as well. And so just giving parents talking to the parents of the anxious children, the children that struggle with separation anxiety, the children that struggle with worry and things of that, that nature. And they're in regulating their emotions and just becoming familiar with what emotions are.

Allison (4:52)

Yeah. Amazing. Amazing.

Therapist Client 2 (4:54)

And so my hope is to teach the parent while I'm teaching the children, and then parents, when they go home, they can reinforce what both parties have been taught.

Allison (5:02)

Got it. Okay. So you're wanting both parents and kids to come. Okay, I love that because it's, it's going to have a bigger impact and do more of what you want it to do, but it's also going to screen out those people who are like, here, fix my kid.

Therapist Client 2 (5:15)

Yes.

Allison (5:16)

Yeah, yeah, awesome. Okay. So I'm thinking about it from a marketing perspective. So school counselors for sure. Kid counselors, potentially couples counselors. Because if their kids are having some problems as a result of marital issues, for instance, like the way it all trickles down, that might be a good place to find folks. And are you, who is your ideal client within your private practice?

Therapist Client 2 (5:45)

So funny enough, I don't really work with children. I haven't started working with children in my private practice. My niche is people pleasers who struggle with establishing boundaries.

Allison (5:56)

Okay, great.

Therapist Client 2 (5:57)

And I, I credit you for helping me create the whole niche thing because that can be so wonky. But I just, I've just seen that when I've worked with children, parents kind of say, hey, fix my kid. But I'm only with Sally for one hour.

Allison (6:10)

Right.

Therapist Client 2 (6:11)

I need you to kind of reinforce what we've talked about the other 23, you know, the other part of the week in the day. So it's the follow up and the need for parents to kind of reinforce what we're teaching in sessions. But I, I love the one to many, like a teacher, like a school counselor. I love that I could do it all day.

Allison (6:29)

Yeah. Awesome, awesome. And I'm imagining that some of the parents that are coming in are going to fit your niche. So this will be kind of like a gift to the parent and the kid and maybe make that parent ask for more. So that would be cool. As you're building, I'm hoping other people.

Therapist Client 2 (6:50)

Take this and run with it because even if when this happens, what I do is not going to be enough. There are millions of children. So yeah, I'm hoping people just take it and run with it and duplicate it.

Allison (7:01)

Yeah. So I think about, especially these other folks that work with kids, these other therapists that work with kids. Like, you can be so clear with them. Like, I'm not taking on kids in my practice right now. Okay. So I'm not interested in taking your clients. I'm just wanting to help support them by teaching their parents these skills over this time in this workshop. So it could be a great adjunctive thing for the other child and adolescent therapists or child therapists in your area.

Therapist Client 2 (7:28)

Thank you so much. This was so helpful.

Podcast Host (7:30)

Oh, good, good.

Allison (7:31)

Yay. Awesome. Very cool. Who's next? Go ahead, Laurie.

Therapist Client 1 (7:38)

I just left the government at the end of October after like 10 plus years.

Therapist Client 2 (7:42)

Wow.

Therapist Client 1 (7:43)

So it's nice to be free. And I was not building like a caseload during that time because I. My soul and mind and body could not, like, handle that. So very fortunate that I did not have to do that. But I was doing, like, behind the scenes, like, licensure and like, some stuff that I could do. So I'm in the, like, building stage of all that stuff. So I've like, gone through the checklist a few times that you have, and I'm in Abundance party, which is great. And I've gotten to the part with, through the modules where it's like the first part of marketing. I am also working with Tiffany and because I know I want a premium fee practice, but I know, like, they're different things. And I think for me, when I was thinking about it, like, complement each other really great. I am working with someone on, like, website stuff and, like, that's getting up and going. I'm starting to think about, like, I feel really good about, like, where niche is. I feel really good about starting to think about, like, stakeholders and all that stuff. But it's like I'm watching like 10 pots I'm trying to get to boil and like, none of them are like, simmering yet, you know?

Allison (8:45)

Yeah.

Therapist Client 1 (8:46)

So I. I'm like, obviously in context, it's like, it hasn't been that long and like, nothing's really going to happen. I know it's a long game and I'm like, laying a lot of strong foundations, but I also feel like I'm like losing my mind some days.

Allison (8:58)

Yep.

Therapist Client 1 (8:58)

So I think it's just like, I'm not necessarily missing anything big. Just like, this is the right path. I'm like, working on something like every day a little bit. But am I going down, like, this weird rabbit hole that I don't need to be like, going down, like, hopefully that is kind of making sense.

Allison (9:15)

Yeah, it's making sense. I think you're definitely not alone. I want to. I want to know if you're going down weird rabbit holes too. So we'll explore that. And for. For people who are here, she mentioned Tiffany. Tiffany runs Lean and Make bank, which helps therapists set premium fees. So you're doing that, which is a pretty intense experience. You're working on a lot of your money stuff. It's in your face. And then I'm also over here in the abundance party being like, now let's market. So, yeah, it's a lot of stuff coming up. It can be really overwhelming. And you're right. They both. Both courses go really well together. So let's talk about your marketing strategies. I'm hearing Website or first, tell me your niche. Tell me your niche.

Therapist Client 1 (9:56)

So it is millennial age women who are thinking about maybe making a change to their alcohol drinking after their partner has said something to them.

Allison (10:06)

Love it. Love it. Super clear. Mm. I feel like we're also in. I mean, people are drinking less now than they did in the past, which is amazing. Like, we're all kind of like waking up to maybe this drinking isn't really serving me. Okay, and so in your mind, are your ideal clients people who are maybe diagnosable or maybe not diagnosable with a substance use disorder?

Therapist Client 1 (10:29)

It could be either. So I've worked with, like diagnosed substance use disorders, trauma, like tons of that stuff. But it doesn't necessarily have to be like, it could be, but it doesn't have to be.

Therapist Client 3 (10:39)

Yeah, it could be more like a.

Allison (10:40)

Sober, curious kind of like, I don't know, I don't think I need wine every night kind of a thing. Okay.

Therapist Client 1 (10:44)

Yeah. And it can go into like, you know, trauma. I know when I was looking, obviously, like millennial age women are the group that are like drinking the most in general, like when I was looking. And so, you know, the high stress jobs where there's more gender discrepancies in terms of like women that are in more male dominated fields, like, you know, that gets into like the resource piece. Anyway, I digress. So that gets into a lot of stuff that could lead into like, trauma. Which again, goes to the website copy. So I'm working with someone on that. But I don't have like a website where I'm like, hey, I can market with you and like send you to my website yet, which you don't necessarily, I know, like fully need, but if I don't have somewhere to send them. But I'm not going to be like, let me just wait until this website's done, until I go and do these things and take these steps. So I'm like trying to think about it, like, strategically, but also not just like avoid and not do things too.

Allison (11:33)

Right. I'm so glad you've got like, you're clocking that. Because a lot of people don't. They're just like, well, I'm in stasis until that website is built and it's out of my hands. So I just gotta stay here. And that's not the way to do it.

Therapist Client 1 (11:44)

Yeah, no, I don't want to do that. And then, yeah, balancing back and forth between the two because, you know, Abundance Party is very much about, like building the practice. Whereas, like, that's not necessarily what most people in LIM are doing.

Allison (11:54)

Right.

Therapist Client 1 (11:55)

Like, I am a very different, like I'm not getting off insurance panels, I'm not having fee raise conversations. But I knew that going in. You know, it's just working like on that, like, mindset because, you know the government doesn't value you or your work.

Allison (12:09)

Right.

Therapist Client 1 (12:09)

Like I needed to start doing that.

Allison (12:11)

Huh.

Therapist Client 1 (12:12)

Yeah. So website is a big one. I. I will be a fully virtual practice and I'm a psychologist, so I do have a license in two states, but I also have psypact, so like, that's a part of it too. So. And I know locally in my area, like, there's just not a lot of like mental health providers. So like, at least locally, you know, there's just, there's not a lot. Just in terms of the city I actually live in.

Allison (12:35)

Got it. Okay. So we've got website, there's. Networking is going to be a really powerful tool for you.

Therapist Client 1 (12:42)

Yep.

Allison (12:43)

A lot of us are like, work with substance abuse and a lot of us are seeing it. And so if you are networking with other therapists, there is likely going to be a point in time when they're like, I need to make a referral because I can only get so far clinically with this person within knowledge I have.

Therapist Client 1 (13:02)

Yeah.

Allison (13:03)

So definitely other therapists, other full folks who work with substance abuse or substance questioning. I don't know if treatment centers are going to bring your ideal client. Maybe that's farther along the path of substance dependence. What are your thoughts?

Therapist Client 1 (13:20)

Yeah, it's a spectrum of like treatment. So it could be people that have like, maybe stepping down from that might want someone more like outpatient that I. Depending on where they're at. Like, that wouldn't necessarily be out of my wheelhouse to work with. I don't necessarily want a caseload full of that. Right.

Allison (13:34)

Totally makes sense.

Therapist Client 1 (13:36)

I just came from a caseload full of that and I don't, I don't want that.

Allison (13:40)

Yeah.

Therapist Client 1 (13:40)

So.

Allison (13:41)

Yeah.

Therapist Client 1 (13:42)

But also if I see someone that I need to refer up, like, it could be good to have relationships for sure. Something like that.

Allison (13:49)

And psych prescribers go.

Therapist Client 3 (13:53)

PCPs.

Allison (13:55)

OB Gynes.

Therapist Client 1 (13:57)

Okay. Most of those were on my list. Ob gynes. Were. Were not. I'll add those to my list.

Allison (14:03)

Yeah. Usually as women, we tend to be most honest with our OB GYNs.

Therapist Client 1 (14:07)

Yeah.

Allison (14:07)

And most of us lie a bit about how much we're drinking when our doctors ask us. So.

Therapist Client 1 (14:12)

Okay.

Allison (14:12)

Maybe those two things will converge in a way that makes Sense. So we've got website networking. What other marketing strategies are you considering?

Therapist Client 1 (14:20)

SEO is one I'm considering. Again, still very new. Haven't put too much shock or thought in it. I get a little bit of that with my website team. But ongoing stuff will be up to me if I decide I want to try some of it on my own or eventually outsource that. But that's a little bit down the line. Not necessarily immediately right now, but it's the big one I'm looking at. And from the options, looking ahead a little bit at Abundance party modules, those were the three big ones I think I was mostly looking at. I'm not super interested in social media. Requires a lot of ongoing updates and stuff that I just don't currently have the brain power or totally for.

Allison (15:00)

So I grant you full permission to skip social. All of you, if you want to. If you want to do it, do it.

Therapist Client 1 (15:05)

Thank you.

Allison (15:07)

So, and if you're doing SEO, that means you're doing blogging. How do you feel about video being on video for things on your website? You'll find upon it, okay, so that can be a good add on to your website. Because people feel like if somebody's got a video and somebody doesn't, unless the video is trash, and we'll define trash. But usually the person's going to choose the person with the video just because all of a sudden they feel so much safer because they know what that person talks like and what their mannerisms are.

Podcast Host (15:38)

A little bit.

Allison (15:39)

A trash video would be one that's not well practiced. Most of us, the second a video camera gets on us, we're like, hi, I'm Allison. I love to help therapists build their private practices. We're all stilted and weird, and the only way through that is through practice. Yeah. And so in the video course, I talk about practicing for at least two weeks of videoing yourself every day and then making yourself watch it, which is the hardest part. And the more you do that, just the more natural you'll be on camera.

Therapist Client 1 (16:11)

Okay.

Allison (16:12)

You would not believe what I used to be like. I'm very proud to say I've definitely gotten much better on camera. So video would be a good thing to consider. How do you feel about public speaking?

Therapist Client 1 (16:25)

I feel fine about that as well. Like, again, practice, obviously, but I've done presentations and, like, seminars and things, so, like, that feels fine for me.

Allison (16:33)

Yeah. So I think doing something that is kind of out and about, like, maybe when you're thinking about your ideal client, they all belong to this fancy gym, especially since you're doing premium fee, we need this to be folks who can afford your fee. So let's say they all go to this fancy gym or may go to this fancy gym. Maybe you do a talk on, like, how to do sober January or what are the pitfalls? So you kind of make it like the fun, light version in the spaces that require it to be a little bit more fun and light.

Podcast Host (17:04)

Like, you sell it as fun and.

Allison (17:05)

Light, but then you're kind of giving them what they need. And my favorite thing at the end of any talk is, for some of you, this is exactly what you needed. And for others, you're going to need some more support to implement that. And for those of you who need that help, I'm here and you've got my card or here's how to get in touch with me or scan this QR code or whatever. So don't be afraid. In fact, I would say it doesn't count as a marketing strategy if you're not promoting your practice at the end of your talk.

Therapist Client 1 (17:33)

Yeah.

Allison (17:34)

Because people want you. They sat there through the whole talk. You gave them great value, and a lot of people are going to want to come see you, so you have to offer it.

Therapist Client 1 (17:42)

Yeah. There's a new local TV show that's, like, on vibes and people and things going on around town, and I. I'm gonna shoot my shot and just be like, hey, amazing.

Allison (17:53)

Yeah.

Therapist Client 1 (17:53)

Because what's the worst that'll happen? They'll be like, no, you know, yeah, so. But I like that idea. And yes. Making sure you're plugging yourself, like, at the end and how you did that. So, yeah, this has been helpful.

Allison (18:04)

Good, good. And always think about that ideal client. Let's say you're on the show. Right. If your ideal client is like, I mean, it's not that bad. Like, he gets frustrated with me, but it's not like I'm like an alcoholic. You know, if that's their mindset, then you don't want to go on the show and be like, if you're struggling with alcohol, then there's a way out, you know, because they're not there.

Therapist Client 1 (18:27)

Oh, yeah. No, they're never there.

Allison (18:29)

Versus, like. Right. That's true. Even when it's farther gone. But if it's like, I mean, maybe you're doing a little more than you'd like to. You'd like to moderate better. Or sometimes you say stuff that you really regret or do stuff you really regret and you're just embarrassed about It. So it's like, oh, it's meeting them where they're at. So in all marketing things, y' all meet them where they're at right now, not after they've been seeing you.

Therapist Client 1 (18:52)

Perfect. Thank you.

Allison (18:55)

Yeah, absolutely. Who was going to be next? Was it you, Katie? I think you are next.

Therapist Client 2 (19:01)

Hi.

Allison (19:02)

Hi.

Therapist Client 3 (19:05)

I guess my main focus question is, like, how long do you give a thing to see some results? So I got from Psych Today this summer, I've been really dialing in on SEO Weekly blogs. The, like, traffic kicking up on my website, but not really more inquiry calls. And then recently, in a deep dive on SEO stuff, I'm seeing that Psych Today is actually helpful just as a backlink. It can be even if you're not getting people through the directory. So I'm feeling torn. Like, do I go back to that or do I keep focused and give.

Therapist Client 1 (19:49)

It a little more time?

Allison (19:50)

Yeah. I don't know how much actual weight it has as a backlink. I think there was a time, I don't know if anybody's going to get mad at me for saying this, that works at Psych Today, but basically there was, like, a time where they were really marketing of, like, these backlinks, y'.

Therapist Client 2 (20:04)

All.

Allison (20:05)

Psych Today's helping you out here, when in actuality, like, today is actually just taking up the front pages of everybody's searches. So I think the backlinks do have some value. I just don't know how. I don't know if it's $30 a month worth of value. If you're doing true SEO work like you're blogging weekly, you're doing SEO to it, then you probably don't need Psychology Today, But I don't think it'll hurt. Aside from financially. Psych Today works so different in different cities. And now that we can all be virtual, it's just gotten really messy. So there was a time pre Covid when I could be like, oh, it's really worth it to invest in Psych Today in the city, but not this city. And now it's not predictable. Usually with Psych Today, I say give it six months, because if you get one client from Psych Today, it's paid for itself. Right. If they see you a few times, then your year's covered. So if it does end up leading to SEO, then maybe it's worth it. I'll also say a lot of people are now asking chat GPT, and chatGPT is pulling from Psych Today. So it helps you show up on Chatgpt listings. So one thing you could do is go into ChatGPT and search for what your ideal client would search for. Say, like, I need a therapist in the city or in this state dealing with this thing and please give me 10 options. It'll pull up a bunch of options and it'll give you little links of where they found those options. And so that's where I'm like, okay, well I see this person on site today. This is also just their website, so they probably have good SEO and they're on site today, so that's helping. In fact, I like have one of my many pieces of papers around me that has that stuff listed in my area, so it might be worth it. Did you get like the free six months or have you been paying for it during this time?

Therapist Client 3 (21:57)

I've been on psych today since 2015.

Allison (22:00)

Oh yeah.

Therapist Client 3 (22:00)

Okay. I just looked at my numbers for the last year and I was like, why am I paying for this?

Allison (22:06)

They've gone down so much, I would say, in the last year, year and a half to two years, depending on where you are. Yeah, it's wild. And that's because big therapy, text, buying some profiles for their people too. So it just. There are so many more therapists on there, so it's all watered down.

Therapist Client 3 (22:23)

Is there a time frame to give, like blogging and SEO and marketing, like all of that?

Allison (22:29)

Yeah, usually blogging, if you're doing it right, you'll start to pop on page one for some keywords within six months. Like I'd give it six months. And there's this conversation around how valuable is SEO versus being found on AI searches? Because so many people aren't even going to Google anymore. So it's just this fast moving world that we're in with technology where I would love to give you a very clear answer, but my answer today might be different than it would be next week. So I want to just kind of acknowledge that. So yeah, I think if you're getting one person a year from Psych today, it's probably worth it. But if you're not, and I would say if your traffic has increased significantly but you're not getting calls, then we need to look at your website and we need to see what's not working to convert people. Sometimes it's like today people clicking on it and they're like, well, never mind. I was looking for a completely different niche, but I just like their picture. Sometimes that happens. But if people are coming to you through SEO and not converting, usually it takes 7 to 11 times of them seeing you before they call. But if those numbers are up and they're continuing to increase over time, but people aren't calling, then I would look at your copy, I look at your template, how it looks and feels. Make sure you're really speaking to that one ideal client. Thank you. Yeah, of course. Awesome, y'.

Therapist Client 1 (23:54)

All.

Allison (23:54)

Well, thanks for spending time with me. And for those of you in the Abundance Party, we're going to do these live in January, February and March. So if you're not in the Abundance Party, welcome to join us. Awesome. All right, I'll see you all later.

Podcast Host (24:10)

Thanks for listening in on a live Ask Allison sponsored by our friends at TherapyNotes. If you'd like to join us for the next one, send an email to helpbundancepracticebuilding.com and we'll send you the link. If you're listening, you probably need some support building your practice. If you're a super newbie, grab our free checklist using the link in the show Notes. I'd love for you to follow rate and review, but I really want you to share this episode with a therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.