Episode #721: Before the Breakdown: Helping Professionals and the Myth of Endless Strength, feat. Dr. Cecily Moore

Summary

Abundant Practice Podcast

Episode #721: Before the Breakdown: Helping Professionals and the Myth of Endless Strength
Host: Allison Puryear
Guest: Dr. Cecily Moore
Date: January 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the unique pressures faced by helping professionals—especially therapists—around the cultural and personal expectation of “endless strength.” Host Allison Puryear and guest Dr. Cecily Moore, a clinician, educator, and researcher, explore how these expectations fuel burnout, self-abandonment, and unsustainable work practices. They unpack the problematic conditioning around over-responsibility and discuss healthier approaches, including nuanced views of rest and self-care that go far beyond surface-level solutions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin and Impact of the “Endless Strength” Narrative

• Dr. Moore’s Personal & Academic Connection (02:23 – 04:19)
  • Dr. Moore has been passionate about counseling since childhood, seeing her work as a calling.
  • Her research focuses on the "strong Black woman" narrative and its intersection with the lived experiences of Black women in helping professions.
  • Noted widespread overlap between cultural expectations of strength and professional burnout.
    • “I kept seeing… a lot of overlap between this narrative and… Black women being helping professionals… we're having to perform strength in these ways. Like, I'm having to completely self abandon and not show up as my full self. And I feel undercompensated and overwhelmed.” — Dr. Cecily Moore (03:25)

2. Professional Conditioning into Over-Responsibility

• Cultural and Systemic Factors (04:27 – 05:37)
  • Helping professionals are conditioned to tie their worth to how much they can “carry.”
  • Overlap of cultural, familial, and professional expectations: the need to be “endlessly available and endlessly competent.”
    • “We're literally conditioning folks to walk into a profession of burnout.” — Dr. Cecily Moore (06:11)
• Educational System Failures
  • The field and education lag behind, not properly preparing clinicians for sustainability.

3. Generational and Systemic Pressures

• Changing Attitudes Across Generations (07:36 – 08:09)
  • Allison recalls Gen X messaging (“suck it up and do the thing”) vs. how younger generations are raised today.
  • The challenge: finding a middle ground between resilience and managing discomfort without glorifying suffering.
• Gatekeeping vs. Neglect (08:43 – 11:19)
  • Dr. Moore questions whether the “trial by fire” approach in training is fair or simply throwing people to the wolves without adequate support.

4. Self-Care Beyond the Clichés

• What Self-Care Really Means (11:19 – 12:11)
  • The reality of self-care is rarely a Pinterest dream: it’s often about boundaries, hard conversations, and systems.
  • “Self care is so rarely what we see on Pinterest... like maybe baths don't do anything.” — Allison Puryear (11:25)
• Differentiating Between Hygiene and Self-Care
  • “We confuse self care with hygiene a lot.” — Dr. Cecily Moore (12:04)

5. Rethinking Rest: More Than Just Sleep

• The Seven Types of Rest (12:39 – 16:11)
  • Dr. Moore introduces the concept: rest is multifaceted (physical, mental, sensory, emotional, social, creative, spiritual).
    • “When we oversimplify it to just sleep, we are missing out on creative rest, spiritual... we're missing out on a whole gamut of other forms.” — Dr. Cecily Moore (13:25)
  • She credits thought leaders like Tricia Hersey (“Rest is Resistance”) and Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith.
  • “If we don't become responsible parties to rest, our body will do it for us. It will shut this thing down.” — Dr. Cecily Moore (14:37)

6. Listening to the Body and Accessing Authentic Rest

• Learning to Recognize What You Need (16:54 – 18:41)
  • Body awareness is key: “listening to the language of your body” to determine which kind of rest is most needed.
  • Not all rest feels safe when someone has been conditioned to overperform.
    • “Does this type of rest even feel safe for me?” — Dr. Cecily Moore (15:56)
  • Resources recommended: Rest is Resistance (Tricia Hersey), Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith’s work.

7. Transforming Insight into Action

• Therapists Love to Learn—But Must Also Do (18:41 – 19:11)
  • Reading and learning about rest is a start, but it needs to lead to integrating real changes.
  • Many Black women Dr. Moore interviewed started unlearning harmful narratives by reading about these concepts first.

8. Personal Rest Practices, Boundaries, and Spiral of Burnout

• Rest Must Fit the Individual (21:18 – 22:36)
  • Neither rest nor self-care are “one size fits all”; they must be tailored to personal needs and preferences.
  • “Maybe it’s creative rest. Maybe it’s sensory rest. …This isn’t a one size fits all, you know, concept and we all need different things.” — Dr. Cecily Moore (21:25)
• Boundaries, Overwhelm, and the Downward Spiral (23:01 – 23:58)
  • The more depleted, the more likely to say “yes” to things, feeding a downward spiral.
    • “The more depleted I am, the more likely I am to say yes to things…” — Allison Puryear (23:32)

9. Training the Next Generation: Preventing Breakdown Before It Starts

• Micro-rest and Boundary “Rehearsals” for Students (24:07 – 25:17)
  • Dr. Moore teaches students to practice “micro-rests,” practice setting boundaries, release the fixer identity, and choose work that matches capacity—decoupling worth from productivity.
    • “Release the fixer identity, and try to choose work that matches our capacity and then separate self worth from productivity.” — Dr. Cecily Moore (25:05)
  • Allison expresses admiration, wishing she’d had this guidance earlier.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Over-Responsibility:
  “This over responsibility doesn’t equal great clinical care in the way we fool ourselves into believing.”
  — Allison Puryear (05:20)

• On Systemic and Personal Burnout:
  “We’re literally conditioning folks to walk into a profession of burnout, but also they’re getting burnt out prior to even becoming independently licensed.”
  — Dr. Cecily Moore (06:11)

• On Rest as Radical Resistance:
  “If we don’t become responsible parties to rest, our body will do it for us. It will shut this thing down. And you’re either going to do it by force or by choice, right?”
  — Dr. Cecily Moore (14:37)

• On Individualized Rest:
  “When we make space for our identities and our full humanity. Right. We're able to access and integrate these things better.”
  — Dr. Cecily Moore (22:16)

• On Decoupling Worth from Productivity:
  “We try to choose work that matches our capacity and then separate self worth from productivity.”
  — Dr. Cecily Moore (25:05)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:23] — Dr. Moore’s introduction and personal academic journey
• [04:27] — How professionals are conditioned into endless strength
• [06:11] — Burnout starting before licensure
• [11:19] — Self-care beyond clichés; boundaries and systems
• [12:39] — Rest is more than sleep: Seven types of rest explained
• [14:37] — Rest as resistance and necessity
• [16:54] — Learning body awareness and which rest you need
• [18:41] — Reading as the first step to unlearning
• [21:18] — Rest is not one-size-fits-all; knowing your needs
• [23:32] — The spiral of depletion and weak boundaries
• [24:07] — Preventative strategies for students: micro-rest, boundaries, releasing fixer identity, self-worth separation

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Tone & Closing Thoughts

This conversation is authentic, reflective, and supportive, centering the lived reality (and projected reality) of therapists and helping professionals. Both Allison and Dr. Moore candidly share their struggles and insights, blending vulnerability with expert guidance. The episode is especially affirming for listeners who have internalized the myth of “endless strength,” providing validation, practical strategies, and hope for a more sustainable future in the field.

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For additional resources and trainings discussed in the episode, Allison invites listeners to check out her Abundance Party membership and various free tools available at abundancepracticebuilding.com.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices. Just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practice building.com Links all right, onto the show.

[B]

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[B]

Professionals and the myth of endless strength, as you put it. Cecily. Like, beautifully put. So first, thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited to have this conversation and your expertise. So hi.

[C]

Hi. I'm glad to be here.

[B]

So start us off. Tell me, what is it about this topic that initially drew you? Why is this something you care to talk about?

[C]

Oh my goodness. So I've known since like the third grade that I wanted to be a counselor, like legit. Asked my mom like, hey, could you get me some manila folders and a legal Pad and, like, set up shop at recess. Like, I want to, like, do this thing right. And so feeling like it's a calling, I went into higher ed. But once I got into higher ed, like, I still had my private practice, and at the time, I was completing my dissertation. And so my research area is around the strong black woman narrative. And looking at that research, like, I kept seeing, like, that there was a lot of overlap between this narrative and, like, black women being helping professionals. And so at first, my research was really, really narrow. But being in higher ed, like, that's what I do. I teach and train future clinicians. And I'm like, oh, this phenomenon is widespread. Everybody's getting a dose of this. And so I am having more and more conversations with clinicians and future clinicians that are like, hey, work isn't sustainable. And it's not sustainable because I'm having to perform strength in these ways. Like, I'm having to completely self abandon and not show up as my full self. And I feel undercompensated and overwhelmed and all the things. And I'm like, okay, y', all, like, we have a little crisis on our hands. So that's. That's been driving the interest, the research, and, like, this topic of conversation.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. I. I think about this endless strength idea and how it feels necessary.

[C]

Absolutely. And I think it's ingrained in us. And as helping professionals, we're also conditioned to, like, believe that our worth is tied to, like, how much we can carry, especially when we think about holding space to others. Don't get into cultural, familial, spiritual, and even professional expectations of being endlessly, endlessly available and endlessly competent. Right. And so the list just continues to go on and on and compound upon itself.

[B]

Oh, I, like, feel my shoulders.

[C]

Yes, yes.

[B]

I mean, I feel this so deeply. I know most therapists do. And I can only imagine for black therapists, it is like, next level, because they've been doing it their whole lives in a different way, and it has been necessary their whole lives in a different way.

[C]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so let's talk about this kind of, like, over responsibility that is helping professionals. We take on. I mean, I'll go ahead and say, because it's probably going to come in our conversation, this over responsibility doesn't equal great clinical care in the way we fool ourselves into believing.

[C]

Absolutely. And truthfully, I think that's what drew me to be a listener to your podcast, because I was like, oh, you're talking about leaving agency work. What is this about? And so I know that as an academic and someone being in higher ed, I have a perspective. This counterculture, like, I'm telling my advisees, hey, this is a quick path to burnout. And, like, here are some of these signs. Right. And it's unfortunate that the educational model hasn't caught up. I feel like we're behind in a lot of ways, and especially folks with marginalized identities, they feel the double whammy of that. Right. And so, one, our field has to catch up, but also the educational system has to catch up because we are literally conditioning folks to walk into a profession of burnout, but also they're getting burnt out prior to even becoming independently licensed. Like, I'm seeing students that are experiencing burnout in practicing an internship.

[B]

Right. So I feel like there's so many. This is so complex.

[C]

Like, I want to.

[B]

I want to go into every single sentence you say and be like, ooh, let's tear it apart. And, like, look at all the reasons why, like, this burnout that young clinicians are feeling. I mean, we all went through that process of, like, their internships and practicums. None of us knew what the hell we were doing. Right. Like, this is how we learn is by doing. And so we all go in, and we're also a group of people as a whole. I mean, to generalize us of, like, people who want to do a good job.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That we really highly value what we're wanting to do in the world. And none of us want to go in and suck.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So we've got this internal pressure. We've also got the external pressure of supervisors, which is also external support.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

But they're depending on your supervisor. Sometimes it feels more like pressure than support. Just depends. I also think about, like, so I'm Gen X, so I grew up with a lot of like, well, yeah, you suck it up and you do the thing that was the. The culture that I grew up in, which is different from the way I'm raising my kids.

[C]

Right, Right. Yeah.

[B]

And my kids have a real hard time with things that are uncomfortable at an age where I was like, well, yeah, you just gotta suck it up.

[C]

Suck it up.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Kick yourself up by your bootstraps. Right. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so there's this middle ground that I think we're missing in terms of resiliency and being able to manage uncomfortable feelings that I think necessitates more therapists in the world. But when those therapists also struggle with it, it's hard to get them out into the world in a place where they're building caseloads that really work for them. And it's sustainable because if you have to go through the fire to get there, not everybody's gonna make it through. And maybe that's okay. I don't know. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, I think about the idea of gatekeeping, right? But is it really gatekeeping when you're just kind of like throwing people to the wolves, right? Like trial by fire, knowing that they don't necessarily have the capacity to navigate those waters? And especially being an educator, being a gatekeeper, being a clinical supervisor, like all these things, what am I doing to help people develop that self awareness around who they are and how they are and best suited clients, best suited populations to work with. Where's your sweet spot? Where's your zone of genius? And that's just not things that I feel like we're talking about in the educational landscape. I learned those things through like business development coaching, like those sort of things. Right. And so I joke with students all the time and I'm like, chapter seven is not going to teach you anything. It's going to teach you like what the theoretical orientation is. But like the world is your oyster, right? And so I, I think something that's unique about this profession, which I'm totally biased of, like try to tell everybody, like, go be a clinician. But I think it demands that we are all kind of like lifelong learners because we're going to evolve, we're going to grow, like all the things. And so even just you like bringing up this sense of over responsibility, I do think it's something that is baked into the educational setting. But also times have changed. The world is on fire right now. Right. And so we are sizing simultaneously navigating the things that our clients are navigating. Right. So it becomes interesting because are we still working in integrity? Like, I'm just as burnout as my client. And so we're sitting here having this conversation and I'm feeling triggered, right? And what we've been taught is, well, you can't show emotion. You've got to kind of, you know, sit back, don't center yourself. And I'm not saying that you need to center yourself, but I think it is getting harder and harder, right. To take yourself out of the equation in the work that we do. And we have to figure out like what that balance looks like and what it means to work in integrity and to be of service not just to clients, but to self as well.

[B]

Yes. And I, I mean, I think about the Being in service to self. Like, we all know self care. Such a buzzword, such a thing. And how self care is so rarely what we see on Pinterest. Like, maybe not at all. Like, maybe baths don't do anything. I don't know. It is usually having a hard conversation, setting a boundary, like, that's the real meat of self care in my life and creating systems that make things easier. Like, it's none of the, like, relaxing shit people want to say. Self care is where it's done to you.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know, like a massage is having self care done to you, which is a lovely thing, but I think we have to take responsibility for our self care and those actions.

[C]

Yes. I think that we confuse self care with hygiene a lot.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like somebody's like, oh, self care, you're.

[C]

Getting your nails done.

[B]

I'm like, I don't want to spend my time doing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would love to hear and learn, and I'm really excited that you're doing the training and the party leader this month, but I. I am not good at rest. I would love to talk to you about rest because you seem to know how to do that. How, like, rest, regulation, recovery, how those things work.

[C]

Yeah. Yes. I love this topic and I love this topic because I truly, truly believe that it has saved my life time and time again. And I don't know why, especially in this profession, we're not talking about this, this topic more, because when we think about rest, I think sometimes we oversimplify it to sleep. Like, are you getting seven to nine hours of sleep? And yes, sleep is super important to, like, our bodily functions. And when I think about therapeutic work, like when you are sleep, your body is able to heal. Let's work smarter, not harder. Let's use the tools that have been naturally given to us to, like, help the therapeutic medium. But there are seven different types of rest. And so when we oversimplify it to just sleep, we are missing out on creative rest, spiritual. Like, we're missing out on a whole gamut of other forms of rest. And I think that it's doing us a disservice.

[B]

Okay, I need this conversation so bad. Will you tell us the seven different kinds of.

[C]

Yes. And it's so funny because I first came to this work, I was again, in, like, another, like, business coaching container. And there was a woman, Jordan Maney, and she stood up and, like, gave her talk, and she's like, I'm the radical joy coach. And I was like, okay, that's. That's interesting, you know, tell me more. But she started talking about being a helper and helping people with bleeding hearts and how she kind of came to this breaking point in her life because, because she was unrested, unwell, pushing through, performing strength, like doing all the things she was burned out. And you know, if we don't become responsible parties to rest, our body will do it for us. It will shut this thing down. And you're either going to do it by force or by choice, right? And so when we think of like, how am I utilizing this tool? How am I engaging in rest? It's not just about sleep, it's about social rest. Like, am I being rejuvenated by the social connections that I have? What does mental rest look like? What does physical rest look like? What does creative rest look like? Like, how am I utilizing these different types of rest to restore myself? And so I think that's what elevates the conversation from self care, the hygiene conversation, to really self care and restoring yourself. Like our ability to tap into those different types of rest and really honing in on our ability to listen to the language of our body. Right? What type of rest is my body calling for? What type of rest does it need? And like, do I have access to that? But not just do I have access to that? Because I've probably been in over performance and over responsibility for so long. Does this type of rest even feel safe for me?

[B]

And oh, that just got me. I don't know why that got me so hard. Okay.

[C]

I think it's something that we struggle with. I think, you know, as clinicians we talk about like deep breathing and that's not the sexy shit of therapy, right? Nobody wants to slow down and take a few deep breaths. But when we think about rest and connection to our body, I think we can do a better job of teaching people what the breath does and how restorative it is and like doing a better job educating. Because without that information, we don't truly understand the function of rest.

[B]

So how do we build that insight to know which kind of rest our body is asking for? Because as you say that I'm like, well, I don't know, I would like to have some more insight.

[C]

There, there's, I think there's a couple of things, right? Not all of us have the privilege and luxury to slow down. There are things that are one, competing for our attention. Our life may be chaotic, but I, I always call it listening to the language of your body, right? Like, are you creating that intentional time to hear the Warnings, the messages that are coming from your body, like you live in this body every day, so you need to be in right relationship with your vessel. Unfortunately for some people, it will be a catalyst moment. It will be a health related concern. It will be in my work. I see this a lot like a job layoff or someone getting fired. And so you have to do this identity work. And they're like, I don't know what to do with myself. My identity was built around my job. And so one, if you can't access it, life is going to teach you a lesson. I'm a firm believer of that. But I also think one of the most accessible low barriers to entry is like reading about rest. Tricia Hersey wrote rest is resistance. Dr. Sandra Dalton, she's wrote a book on the seven types of rest. So like, if it's a thing that you know, I need, but I'm not really for sure where to start. Like become a student of that thing, right?

[B]

Yes, I love that because a lot of us therapists love to learn, right? And so we can, we can sometimes put off actually doing by learning. And when I say sometimes, I mean like almost all of us. All the time.

[C]

Almost all the time.

[B]

So this is at least like if you're reading about it, you're starting to integrate this into the way you think about rest, the way you think about your own rest, your clients rest, all of it.

[C]

Absolutely, absolutely. And it's so funny because while I was doing my dissertation research, I went on a mission to figure out like, how black women unlearn the strong black woman narrative. Like, what are the things that you've done to unlearn this narrative but also redefine like black womanhood for yourself. Right. Most of the people helping professionals, Right. And when I think about this idea of like chronic strength and like pushing through, most of the people had come to this catalyst moment, this health related concern, becoming a parent, all of these major life transitions that kind of force them into reevaluating and looking at their relationship to work, but relationship to rest really differently. And what most people said in that research was they started out by reading. Like they didn't know where or how to access the information. But reading was the most accessible thing. And as someone who's an academic, I was like, duh, why didn't I ever think of that? Like, it made so much sense. And it clicked for me when I heard other people talk about it.

[B]

Yeah, we can use our like, intellectualizer brains, right? And then start to consider it instead of it being Like I am now a project and I have to learn to rest.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And pulling it from thin air and feeling like you're doing it wrong. Because I think, like I, I kind of joke, half joke that I rest like a shark. Like I have to be moving. I am not. When I think of physical rest, and I always think of, like, sitting down, scrolling my phone or something, or like laying around, which, like, my, my body doesn't like to do. I've got too much energy for that. Yeah. I do need physical rest and I sleep like a baby. But the way that I have been like, oh, I really should be resting, like all the shoulds I have around it don't actually work to restore me.

[C]

Absolutely, absolutely. When we think about the seven types of rest, there's physical rest, mental rest, sensory rest, emotional rest, social rest, creative rest, and spirit rest. So maybe the thing that restores you, like, if you, if you're someone who needs to be emotion, maybe it's creative rest, maybe it's sensory rest. Right. And so I think knowing that there are multiple types and forms of rest is super important because this isn't a one size fits all, you know, concept and we all need different things. I even think, you know, to oversimplify this, the idea of extrovert versus introvert, like someone who gets their energy from going inward. An extrovert is someone who gets their energy or feels rested from being in community with people. And so I think when we make space for our identities and our full humanity. Right. We're able to access and integrate these things better.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. And that's. As an extrovert. I know I need to have social time in my calendar with a girlfriend or like a date with my husband or a double date. Like I need that.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Every week. Or I start feeling like life isn't as good as it should be. Like I start getting down, I start getting feeling some ennui. Yeah. And I hadn't thought about how much I actually probably need sensory rest. And I'm getting it because I have an amazing app that keeps me off my phone.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I have felt that more lately as I've been using this app.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we don't need to perform strength. No. If we use the energy that we're spending performing strength, actually resting, like thinking about the kind of rest we might need that's actually restorative for us individually. Because like you said, it's different for you than it is for me than for the person listening right now, then, like, we can come from A really different place in our lives and clinically and all of it. I was just writing about how, like, the more depleted I am, the more likely I am to say yes to things. Whether that's clinical boundaries. Not clinical, but like business boundaries.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll squeeze you in during my lunch break when I restore. There's no effing way anybody's coming into my lunch break. But when I'm juggling too many things and it's just gonna be easier to say yes, then I do that at work, I do that at home. And it's a spiral. It's a downward spiral.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I know a lot of us have spent time in that spiral this year and would love for us to extract ourselves from said spiral.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. I try to tell students, especially because they're entering the field. Like, the way that you show up in practicum and internship is kind of setting the stage for your relationship to work. Right. So if you have poor boundaries, poor time management, like, that is your introduction into the mental health field. And unfortunately, you're entering a field where people already have those types of problems. Right. And so we talk about ways to like, really implement and prevent the breakdown. Right. What does a micro rest practice look like during your workday? Practice boundary rehearsals. We. We talk about what regulation looks and feels like.

[A]

We.

[C]

We work really hard to release the fixer identity.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And. And we try to choose work that matches our capacity and then separate self worth from productivity. Wow.

[B]

I wish you'd been my teacher. You're a good professor. I'm like, we had none of those conversations when I was coming up, so I wish we had. Yeah. I mean, I'm so glad that I have another hour with you to, like, flesh this stuff out even more. So thank you so much for your time today. For folks in the party, make sure you don't miss this training. And if you're not in the party and you want to come join us up in the abundance party, we'd love to have you. Thank you so much, Cecily. Thank you.

[A]

If you're ready for a much easier practice, TherapyNotes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code abundant for two months.

[B]

Free.

[A]

If you're listening, you probably need some support building your practice. If you're a super newbie, grab our free checklist using the link in the show notes.

[B]

Notes.

[A]

I'd love for you to follow, rate and review, but I really want you to share this episode with a therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.