A (2:26)

So I wrote kind of like the origin story of my workshop that I wanted to share with you because that's what I Want to talk about today? My private practice runs itself. That's great. But it's my workshop that I really birthed. I really started getting serious about it when I did Limitless, not last summer, but the summer before. So I try to keep it short and sweet. It's just a couple of paragraphs. I could talk all day about all the serendipitous things that happened that led to the creation of this workshop, which is just my heart and soul. So I'm gonna try not to cry when I read this origin story. Okay.

B (3:00)

You're allowed though.

A (3:03)

Okay. I had known for years that I wanted to volunteer at the jail with women, but I could just never quite quite put my finger on how. Then when I got sober and clear minded a couple of years ago, I noticed I was rediscovering my love for collage art that I really hadn't played around with since I was a little girl. And I've always used expressive arts with individual clients. But my obsession with collecting images was getting to the point that the supp I was collecting could not keep up with the demand of one on one sessions. And then this is kind of funny to me, a teenager. One day I saw him looking at my chaotic collection of. It was just getting like overflowing and the dough I had. And he pointed that out. He said, you have too much. And I could see what his eyeballs were looking at. And I knew exactly what he was talking about, and I knew I agreed with him. So I solved that problem by just getting a larger container. So around that time, I ran into an old friend that was a sheriff, and I asked him about how to go about volunteering at the jail. And he immediately connected me with the social worker. And she was in my office just a few days later, eager to hear about what I had to offer. And then I was in the jail just a few days after that, facilitating my first ever workshop. So that was in the spring of 2023. So it was a hit. And it was a collage art workshop at the time. Since then, I've added some reflective writing, which just has really been the chef's kiss of the whole workshop. So it was a hit. Week after week, month after month, I get tons and tons of positive feedback. The most recent one was just this last week. One of the participants had the jail social worker tell me. She said, I have been going to traditional talk therapy for over 10 years, and today I figured out something in just one of these collage and writing sessions that I've never been able to see before. And almost every week somebody tells me something like that. And it was probably around 2024 that I started doing them for profit. So that's where the story goes next to wrap up. So after about a year of witnessing miracle after miracle, I started to feel a moral obligation to share this workshop with the world. I truly believe I was put on this earth to serve women through my collage and writing workshop. I haven't been able to hardly think straight over the past two and a half years because all I can think about is my workshop. My long term goal is to get hired by for profit hospitals and schools so that I can volunteer even more in the jails and prisons. The way I see a group setting is the secret to life because I can serve more women and less time, offer it at a more affordable price and potentially make and give even more. So I could talk all day about it, but that's where I'll wrap up. So I kind of have two goals today. One, to get clarity that I'm ethically doing this right when it comes to marketing and facilitating the workshop because there's two different businesses, there's my private practice, pllc, and then this is just an llc. And then my second goal is to just get any feedback on marketing that I can get. I'm trying my best, but like, I don't know, we didn't go to school for that. So I'm just kind of like winging it, seeing what happens. And then last, if you, if there's anything I don't even ask about today that you want to make sure to give me feedback on, I just want to know anything you have to offer. So to jump into the primary goal to make sure I'm doing things ethically, I can tell you a little bit more specifically what I think I'm doing right. And. Or what I'm not sure about.

B (6:27)

Okay. And I'll say I'm not an expert in ethics, so.

A (6:31)

Right in there. Yeah. And I am, I'm proud to say, really good. I have a lawyer that I have consulted with on all of this. I just like to ask as many people as possible. So I do have a second LLC for my workshops. And originally I started it as a coaching llc. I wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do with it. I just called it a coaching llc. And I talked to my board about that. I'm pretty sure I covered all my bases, but it really hasn't ended up being a coaching business. I ended up using it more for my workshops. So in an attempt to answer my own question. I think that's okay. Not necessarily that it matters what kind of business I call it, but basically that it's not through my license. So it gives me the creative control I want.

B (7:16)

Yeah, I think as long as you're not like, this is therapy, then you should be fine, as far as I understand it.

A (7:23)

So this is a nice segue into what I'm not sure if I'm doing correctly. So I live and work in a small town, so sometimes people come to my workshops and then they're like, who are you? What do you do? How do we, you know, can you be my therapist? My gut tells me that I have to explain to them that I cannot take them since this is. That would be like a dual relationship. Would you agree?

B (7:48)

Yeah. So this is where it gets stupid. I think that there are really good reasons that people shouldn't be able to cross the line from either therapy to coaching or coaching to therapy. But when what you're doing could be considered therapy. Right? Like it could be, it feels like, well, why not? Right? Like you could offer this under your.

A (8:14)

License potentially, which I do in one on one sessions. So it's therapeutic. What I tell people this is not therapy. It has the potential to be therapeutic. But anyways, I interrupted you. Tell me more about where you're going with that.

B (8:29)

So having not been in your workshop, so I'm not sure, but if you were offering them under your therapy license under that business, it would be okay for the people who have done your workshop to be your therapy clients. The only reason that it's not is because you're under a coaching business for that and they're not supposed to cross.

A (8:58)

Which honestly I'm okay with because my therapy practice, I really don't have to do hardly any marketing for. It's good to go. Yeah, yeah. I'm at a place where especially ever since I did Limitless and I've gotten so much better about networking, I'm referring people out pretty quickly and I'm seeing almost every single client as an ideal client at this point. So it's, it's. I'm asking that from a place of like, oh, I want to be able to take them. I basically just want to make sure I'm telling people the truth about why I can or can't take them. So I think to listen to my gut, I will continue to explain that I cannot take them as a therapy client. I can either set them up with a bomb ass referral to somebody who would be a great therapist for them, or I've always thought I could keep trying. So initially I set up the second LLC as a coaching business for written online coaching, because that's what. That's a program I invest in online for my own mental health. And it's been life changing. And I've always thought that that's something that I could do for people too. So I think what I would like to do is just continue to provide either really good referrals or use it as an opportunity not only to explain why I can't be their therapist, but to offer my online coaching services. Yeah, okay, so I'll keep doing that. And then I also spoke with an advisor earlier this year who recommended that I get my workshop copyrighted. Do you have any thoughts on that?

B (10:29)

Yeah, yeah. And if you trademark anything, I would do that as well.

A (10:33)

Because when it comes to networking, I've really enjoyed that for two reasons. It hasn't really led to a ton of. I honestly, I can't think of any therapy referrals, but it's led to really solid friendships and it's led to therapists coming to my workshop. And that's who I want to serve through my workshops are healers, burnt out healers. And so it's been really great in terms of networking. And I have a couple professors at the university nearby where I live that have hired me to come in and teach my workshop to their class. And they always love it because it's such a phenomenal. It's so fun and it's so effective and the students always love it. And the first class I ever taught, they asked for like a checklist of, like, how to do that, do it. And I was so tickled that they cared that much. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. And I, like whipped something up and sent it right after the class. And as I was typing that up, I was like, I put a lot of years into like creating, like, what am I doing? You know what I mean? So I didn't think about the trademark thing. Okay. I've been in touch with my lawyer about that because those are big words that I don't exactly understand how they work or what they mean. But I've got a great lawyer and that's in the work, so I'll move forward with that. And then I have general liability insurance because my events take place at like, yoga studios, churches, gyms. Actually, right before we hopped on this call, I had an email from a local. It's like a homeless shelter, long story short, for women and children. And I've done it for free there, so they're wanting to do another one, which is exciting, but I need to get paid more too. So I do have general liability insurance, which to my understanding, is to cover me in case somebody were to get injured or something at one of my host places. I did have an add on that, to my understanding. I believe it was called errors and omissions. And I believe that was for. If I had individual written coaching clients. I ended up canceling that because that just. That part just wasn't taking off and I just needed to save, like, what little bit I could on in the business. Does that all sound right to you? Keep the general liability and I can go without that additional coverage?

B (12:55)

I think so. I mean, I've not looked into errors in admissions before, so I'm not sure.

A (12:59)

Okay. Okay. I've got my lawyers I could talk to about that, but I think I'm doing that right. I think the last little mini question I have about ethics with my workshop, I'm not great at. People are always encouraging me to take pictures and videos at my events. I have a lot of, like, mental drama about that because. And same with asking for testimonials, because the whole point of my workshops is for the participants to take, not necessarily to give. So I just feel uncomfortable asking for pictures and videos and testimonials. I take the testimonials when they just kind of occur organically. Like, I have a whole folder on my computer of all the awesome feedback I've gotten. But, like, when it comes to photos and videos, when I do have the opportunity to get that type of content for marketing, do I need permission to be doing that? Yeah, like release.

B (13:57)

Yeah, a photography release. And so, like, I do want to challenge this mindset. If, for instance, one of your free ones, like, that's an easier one. If you've got a block around it, that's the easier one to work with. Is like, they are receiving a lot for free.

A (14:15)

Yeah.

B (14:16)

And if they have signed a release for you to take photos, they don't have to sign that.

A (14:22)

Right.

B (14:23)

If they sign a release for you to take photos with them in it, then, like, that's a way they're giving back to you.

A (14:29)

Okay.

B (14:30)

Testimonials. That could be. That doesn't necessarily mean, will you write me a testimonial that I can then use for marketing purposes? You could have them fill out an evaluation at the end and have a free written section and have a way to get in touch with them and later get in touch and say, I really appreciated what you wrote. Would you be okay with me using it as a testimonial? I can de identify you if you'd like. I mean, they're not therapy clients. So you can actually de identify people?

A (15:02)

Yeah, most of. I don't think there's been a single instance yet where someone's like, oh, no. Like, most of the people are like, absolutely. I would love for you. So it's just me getting in my own way.

B (15:13)

Or you can even just say, like, check this box. If it's okay to use this as a testimonial. And that saves you a step. So, like, yeah, people want to give back to you. You've just given to them. They got a lot out of it. So this is just your stuff coming up and you can just let them give back to you the way they may want to.

A (15:29)

Yeah, I'm over complicating it per usual. The photography release. Any fancy way I need to do that. Talk to a lawyer.

B (15:40)

Yeah, I'd have a lawyer do it just in case.

A (15:42)

Okay, okay, okay. Okay. I think I got all my questions answered there. I'm super open to any feedback on marketing. I've just kind of been, like, winging it. I've been just trying to make it as easy and fun as possible. I try to leverage my interns. I also. I did something really fun recently. I went out. I took myself out to eat. I had some paperwork that I didn't want to do, so I was like, ah, I'll go out to dinner and, like, get some paperwork done. And while I was driving there, I got this really fun idea because since it's a separate business, I think I can use my personal Facebook. Correct?

B (16:18)

Yeah.

A (16:18)

Okay. Yeah. So I posted that. This really fun post that I was going out to eat, and if anyone signed up for my next workshop, which is this weekend, while I was there, I would tip my server 100%. And that happened. Nice. That was just a fun way to do that. And then this was even more fun. The server was. Was this super sweet young girl, and she just. She found me so interesting that I was like this person by myself on a Saturday night eating dinner. And I, like, had a book and my computer was like. She was just like, basically like, who are you? What are you doing? Like, what's going on here? And she. It was kind of serendipitous how it happened, because she was an undergrad student studying psychology, and she was. So I try to tell, even though it's uncomfortable for. I try to tell as many people as humanly possible about my workshop. And I try to just. My mantra is like, conversations equals conversions. Conversations equals. I just try to tell as many people as possible. And so I told her about it, and she ended up signing up. That was kind of fun. That was kind of fun. So when it comes to marketing, I think for me, like, I always worry that when I ask friends and family to come because it's separate, so I believe I have that freedom to do that. I worry that people feel the way that I felt when people approach me with some kind of, like, pyramid scheme of some kind. I'm like, no, I stand so fully behind my workshop. I actually have this little thing on my wall that I wrote, and it says, the key is to truly believe in the value of what you're offering. And I do. I mean, my. My workshop has changed my life. I see it change people's lives every single day, and it's really fun. So I just try to ask as many people as possible to come that. My word of the year was ask nice, which would be a whole nother session. But, yeah, so I've noticed that no matter what kind of Facebook event or flyer, how beautiful it is or whatever, like, none of that really seems to help me. It seems to get people to register when they know me, when that. When they know who I am. So I just try to ask as many people as possible, make it as fun as possible. When I was working with Kat, when I got my website last summer, she made a comment that I should be making videos. And I found that, like, so surprising because I. I remember that. Yeah. So did I ever send you that? The very first video I ever made.

B (18:45)

I think you did, yeah. Yeah.

A (18:47)

It got over 4,000 views. And to me, like, I have a couple hundred Facebook, so I could not believe that. And I've made two since then, and they both are close to 2,000 views, which, to me, I know that might be nothing for, like, some influencer or something, but to me, like, that was kind of incredible.

B (19:09)

Yeah.

A (19:10)

So I've been trying to do that. I can't say I've noticed it's adding up to a ton of registrations. But sometimes I wonder if my expectations are kind of unrealistic. Like, my. I got super lucky with private practice. I worked at a pretty good agency. They let us take our clients with us as long as we left on good terms. I've been full in my practice pretty much since day one, and this is a completely different beast. So I'm trying to give myself grace. Also My time and energy with marketing, my knowledge is limited, so I'm trying to just know that the results are coming slowly but surely. I don't have a, you know, a team of people doing my marketing. I'm just winging it. So I don't know. I. Whatever you have to offer me, if you have any thoughts on anything, I'm just completely open.

B (20:03)

Yeah. I think your instincts to, like, use networking in the way that you have for therapy, to use it for, this is exactly right.

A (20:10)

Okay.

B (20:11)

The fact that you're asking so, like, this is something. When people are training to be salespeople, it seems really obvious that, like, you need to ask for the sale. Right? But, like, as therapists, we're like, I'm not asking, I'm laying a path. Soft rubber mulch that they can choose to write down, mark down, you know? And I think as therapists, like, I just make the assumption everybody's signing up from the call. Right. So, like, I'm not selling. I'm not asking for the sale. I'm like, okay, well, when is the best time for you to come in? Because that's literally why they called. Right. Whereas with this workshop, you are going to have to just be like, you should come. I'd really love to have you in there. As, you know, like, it sounds like, is that what you did with the waitress, or.

A (20:58)

I think I did. And she was only about 20. I have some kind of weird thing about when the person is older than me that gets weird. So definitely something for me to think about. So I think, if I remember correctly, I said, I will send you the flyer. I will not spam your phone number. If you feel comfortable giving me your phone number, I'll send you the flyer. Because I did a discounted code for college students. And so I just assured her, I said I would. You know, I'm pretty sure I. I was pretty encouraging of her to come. And I think it's easier for me because, A, she's younger, and B, I figured if she doesn't want to come, I never will see her again. And see, she showed such interest in me. She just was like, send me so many questions. So that made it easier, too. It's getting less hard. I'm getting more confident the more I practice it. But in terms of asking friends and family, I'm. I'm sure there are at least a couple of people who are like, gosh, this season that Katie's in with, ask us to come to all these goddamn workshops is getting really annoying. But I. I feel that confident that if I can get them to come one time, that they will thank me. And people do. People always are, like, nervous to come because they're always like, oh, I'm not creative. I. I bombard them with reassurance. You don't have to be creative, and you don't have to be a good writer. And I don't think there's ever been somebody who was, like, it was all right. Like, it was. You know, everyone leaves with this deer in headlights look of, like, what did. What just happened? What? Like, that. That was incredible. Everyone's always this. I think the most common feedback I get is, this was so much more than what I had bargained for, you know, because, like, the word collage is kind of like, oh, arts and crafts, you know, and so sometimes I kind of stumble over selling it because I'm always. It's a deceptively simple process, but I'm always worried that it sounds like just this cute little fun art and craft activity or that it's, like, dumb. And so I've been practicing my elevator pitch, and I'd like to get some. I'm in the process of scheduling some photos right now. I'd like to get some really nice, like, cardstock flyers made so I can. I can share with people more often. And yesterday, I think, because I knew I had this call today that kind of motivated me. I called a school yesterday, and I was, like, shaking out of my boots to call, but I had my. Like, I figured out how to leave a voicemail, so I had my script, like, all typed up and just kind of not really read from that, but that was helpful. So I think maybe, like, every at least Monday, because I already have a marketing spot written in my calendar on Mondays to just grab my ovaries and call somebody and make a pitch and. Yeah, and, like, I try to name drop people when I can. Like, hey, I got your name from so and so, like, this other reputable person. So I'm trying.

B (23:47)

Yeah, well. And people are getting so much out of it. How do you let former participants know that you're doing another one?

A (23:53)

So when I make Facebook events, my list of friends is very. I keep it. I'm pretty intentional that my Facebook is pretty limited. So I always invite the same people. And when people mark that they're interested, I reach out to them and I'm like, hey, you know, I would love to see you there. Let me not, like, any questions you have or whatever. And something I try to remember, too. I started, like, this show. I started Listening to the podcast in 2017, I didn't do a paid thing until 2024. So I try to remember, just keep asking, keep asking, keep asking. And my friends and family, they can see and hear the passion that I have, and so I think they know I'm not just selling some frivolous little silly thing.

B (24:40)

Yeah.

A (24:41)

So I follow up with people a lot. I've gotten so much better at nurturing leads. I never used to do that either in my therapy practice or my workshop business. So I follow up with people. Not a lot. Maybe every couple months or so. I kind of have a system of how I do it so that I'm keeping on their radar, but not like blowing their phones up. Right. And so I do. I do reach out to people. It usually just takes several tries. And I also try to. People are busy, so they usually can't come the first couple invites. And I just really. I'm very intentional about really bombarding them with reassurance. Like, when it's meant to be, I know you'll come and I know you're gonna love it. And sometimes I joke, like, if not, I'll buy a steak dinner because I know you're gonna love it. So I'm not. Like, I just. I follow up with people a lot.

B (25:31)

I'm just thinking about the people who've already taken it, though. Like, they've already done it because it's.

A (25:35)

Yeah.

B (25:36)

Like, if I go to something like this and I'm like, hot damn. Like, I did not expect to get everything out of that that I got out of that.

A (25:44)

That's exactly what I really want to.

B (25:46)

Know when the next one is. And this is something I will treat myself to a couple times a year, at least.

A (25:52)

Yeah. Yeah. People do ask me that.

B (25:54)

Yeah, your former people. Anybody who's done it in the past, they're. And they're actually more likely to give you money because they've already given you money. Like, that's one of the rules of business. If they pay you for a little thing, they'll pay you for a bigger thing, usually. Or they're more likely to than somebody who hasn't paid you for a little thing. But if people have already gotten great results and it's not like, okay, life's fixed, I'm cooked. So making sure that your former people are maybe the first to know, give them. Be like, as a former participant, before I open this up to everybody else, I'm going to give you dips.

A (26:29)

I actually did do that recently. I need to. I need to actually Follow through with getting that going. Because the first, I think the first, I want to say one of the first ones I ever did was what year is it? 2020. I think it was December of 2024. And it was the biggest one I ever. 22 people came and I was speechless. I was absolutely speechless that 22 people came and that time of year is coming up again. And about a month ago I reached out to everybody and said, hey, like I'm getting that going again. I like, space is going to be limited. I want to give you first dibs. But I haven't done much since then, so I should probably, I need to nail down that location, see if that's available again because that was wishy washy.

B (27:21)

Always send it with like, here's the link to sign up. I wouldn't waste time on anything and be willing to be a little annoying.

A (27:27)

Okay.

B (27:28)

Yeah, because they're getting lots of emails. They'll be like, oh, Katie, I'll open that later. But if they see a few from you, they're like, maybe I should open this.

A (27:36)

And the technology piece kind of overwhelms me a little bit. Like the simplest technology thing I get, it lives rent free in my head for like months before I try to tackle it. So that's where I try to leverage my interns. And like the one I have this weekend is at my gym and they get a cut of what I'm doing. So I've kind of just like had them handle their registration stuff because it's super easy for them and I really don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Maybe someday I'll learn, but that sometimes I post stuff on like I'll make, I'll try to make it as fun as possible and post stories and stuff on Facebook. It's kind of embarrassing almost to say out loud. I don't understand like how to get the link in the reel that I make. I've like played around with it. It would take probably five minutes to figure it out. But I need to make it easier to sign up because I'm talking about it all the time. But it's just kind of, I'm just kind of talking into the abyss. Like I have some event coming up somewhere. Right? Yeah, we're like, cool. Where?

B (28:39)

How do I say that's your very first next step? Like when we get off this call, like I want you to figure out in every avenue. So like on, on Facebook, how do you make it easier in stories? Like, how do you get that link in there? In email? How do you make it more clear and simple? And how annoying are you willing to be?

A (28:58)

Yeah.

B (28:59)

And what does that need to look like from a tech email perspective? You know, so just think about it from the perspective of your typical client.

A (29:08)

Right.

B (29:09)

If they're healers, they're. They're. It's the holiday season.

A (29:12)

Right.

B (29:13)

They're busy, they're stressed. Their clients are stressed. They need this relief, they need this insight. And if you can make it so smooth and easy.

A (29:22)

Yes.

B (29:23)

Then they'll come in at a much quicker pace.

A (29:26)

Yes. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah.

B (29:29)

It's so good to see you, Katie.

A (29:30)

Yeah, it was good to see you. Awesome.

B (29:33)

Well, keep me updated on how things are going.

A (29:35)

I will. Thank you so much.

B (29:37)

Bye.

A (29:38)

Bye.

B (29:40)

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