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- [00:00]
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Foreign.
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Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practice building.com Links all right, onto the show so I've talked about therapy notes on here for years. I could talk about the features and the benefits in my sleep. But there are a couple things I want you to know about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it into an ad script. First is that they actually care if you like their platform. They don't only make themselves available on the phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your hair out when you get stuck. They also take member suggestions and implement those that there's client demand for, like Therapy Search, an included listing service that helps clients find you internal and external secure messaging Clinical outcome measures to keep an eye on how your clients are progressing. A super smooth super bill process Real time eligibility to check on your client's insurance. In my conversations with the employees there at all levels, they all really believe in their product and they want you to love it too. Second, they are proudly independently owned. Why should you care about that? Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved, the focus shifts from making customers happy to making investors happy. Prices go way up. Innovation plateaus. Making more money with as little output as possible becomes the number one focus. With over 100,000 therapists using their platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful and they don't have to sacrifice your experience to stay there. You can try two months free@therapynotes.com with the coupon code. Abundant Therapists whose practices are full Is this actually the practice you want? If you're secretly stuck, you're cramming in evening sessions, glued to insurance panels, unable to raise rates. Limitless practice is your way out. Over 12 weeks, you'll make the changes you've been thinking about making for months so that you can work fewer hours while making more money. You'll design a schedule that actually fits your life and you'll say yes to only the clients you love. Together, we'll release you from your golden handcuffs. We're capping the cohort at 10 people because I'm personally running every individual individual call, every group call, and every accountability check in. People on the wait list will get first dibs on Those spots. And then the opportunity to sign up will go out to the rest of my audience. So join the wait list. Now. I'm going to put the link in the show notes and I look forward to helping you get your practice exactly where you want it.
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Hi.
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B
Hi, Lisa. How are you?
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A
It's been forever and my computer died during my last session on my phone. Oh, my God. Hoping that it's an easy fix. Oh, it's good to see you. It's been forever.
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B
I know. I'm so glad to see you. When I saw your name on my calendar, I was like, yay, it's Lisa.
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A
Thank you. That I'm not like that anxious, annoying person.
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B
No.
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Well, I have any congrats because. Okay. I'll give you the update and I'll give you why I'm coming with something I think specific. So I'm good. This is year four, actually, since I started. And you know what? It. I still have to knock on wood. But it's been good. Like, I filled up because. Thank you, Covid. I filled up quickly. I do long term work, so that. So even when things slowed down, I've been okay. Last year was lower. You probably seen me post in the Facebook group because I'm in the D.C. area. Yeah. You know, I mean, I mean, I kept people. I slid my feet, which I felt okay with. But it's been in terms of referrals, it's been so slow and with like an okay. And I think you always have to be thinking ahead. And I'd be curious, just briefly, you get. I think there are changes in the therapy landscape.
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B
For sure. For sure.
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You think with the whole venture capitalist and I think even all the group practices, like shout out to all the people who started group practice. But I think that kind of. There's like. I think the market is saturated.
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B
Yeah. And I would say the saturation is more because of the venture capital, like big therapy tech, than the group practices. So, like the group practices. It's interesting because it's almost like venture capital is like just the biggest, most gigantic group practice. Yeah. But the kind that treats their people terribly. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yes. So anyway, so all that being said about early last year, I. Because I got very anxious and I realized that money and anxiety and trauma for me is very, very an issue in my own life. I actually did the trauma of money certification. I don't know if you've heard of it. It kind of. I thought, oh, my. Oh, my God. I have to like, do that for me regardless. And so I did it I didn't finish it and then I kind of. My practice didn't fall apart, so I took me a while to finish but then I got really back into it and I finished and I just got the certification. And I'm thinking I'm in the very early stages of starting like a sub niche about trauma and money, you know, the intersection. So I finished the certification. I've used LinkedIn more in the past, like three weeks than I ever have. And actually I've had some great conversations, conversations with financial therapists who assure me that this is like a niche that is under served, that I don't need to run around and get tons more certifications, which is always bad. So anyway, so I think I'm not quite ready to like totally redo my practice and say this is the thing. And I'm only doing this just because I have my network. So it's sort of like a subset of trauma work. And I am having my website person add a page to my website. I'm going to start blogging. I have a plan. What I'm curious from you is about the networking, like the cold networking with financial people. Yeah, certified financial planners. And like my ideas, I get a suggestion to do with people who work with people going through divorces and often maybe you just market working with women, you know, because, you know, historically we get taught less and we're told that we're not good with money so we have lots of anxiety around it. I'd be curious about like the how of that and yeah. Any strategic or just any ideas, any feedback about this idea and then maybe how to like. Yeah, bring it forward.
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B
Yeah. So I think I want more specificity before I answer on the ideal client for this. Like, what is it that it's not like she. What is it that she's like, what kind of financial trauma has she experienced or is she experiencing?
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So that someone sort of like a cycle breaker, I think about. So not someone who's currently like having the scrape together to make ends meet, but someone who grew up in a family situation where money either wasn't talked about or just very poorly dealt with and received messages that, you know, money is scarce or money can't or they can't be trusted with money and who are now, you know, for one reason or another trying to get their financial house in order but having their own either anxiety or past trauma blocks. Like they're doing all the right thing. Like they're downloading the apps, they're doing the budget, they're doing the things and still, like having panic attacks when they check their statements. That sort of thing.
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B
Okay. So I'm wanting even more specificity.
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Okay.
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Because you know me.
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Yeah. I mean, this is good.
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Kind of what my brain is doing with what you told me is potentially someone who grew up working class and is now middle or upper middle class. And so there's. There. They have money now. And maybe they're like the savers. They're not the one. Like, they're afraid to spend money. Maybe. Maybe they've got a bunch of money in a savings account, but nothing in an ira like that kind of thing.
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A
Yes. Yes. Or either. I think this is where this help disclosure. Like me. I think the last time we met it was like, okay, I'm doing okay, but how do I know that that's not going away next week? Yeah. And therefore I should get a million different certifications. Money to buffer my anxiety. Yeah. But I do think that, like sort of the cycle breaker. They GRE up money being an issue for one reason or another and.
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Yeah.
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Yes. Yeah.
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B
So maybe it's like you're making more money than your parents did.
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Yeah.
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You were not taught how to manage money. You zone out whenever somebody starts talking about finances because it increases your anxiety so much you can't really pay attention.
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Yeah.
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You desperately want to do right by your money. But looking at it.
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I'm grabbing pen, as we talked about. Okay. Yeah.
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And maybe it sounds like your person has gotten to a place where she can look at the money, but it always causes anxiety, even if it's got good numbers.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Okay.
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And then puts her into freeze mode when it comes to making a decision or. Yes. Or taking a risk.
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Yeah. Okay. One thing about her is there's never going to be a number until she heals. For her right now, there is no number. That is the safe number in her bank account. She's. As soon as she reaches it, it moves higher.
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A
You're describing me. Yeah. So it is someone who wants help with managing both. Managing their anxiety, but stopping the shame that comes. Because I think that's where shame comes in. Like, well, I'm doing well. I should be. You know, where I have a master's degree or. Yeah. Why do I still panic when I look at my retirement account? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And there's probably like maybe a sense of stinginess sometimes that they don't feel proud of.
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Yeah.
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Like they want to feel safe being generous, but they don't.
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Yeah. Yeah. That self protectiveness that. Yeah. So, okay, so it's a woman Coming back. Okay. I see what you're doing. You've had to trauma and money. It's getting to the very. Okay, right.
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B
Because I think like trauma and money. I mean, just like trauma and, you know, anything. Right. I had somebody on the podcast years ago, she had money trauma that she had worked on. She was like, my family wasn't house poor. We were yacht and vacation home poor. It was like we had so many luxury homes and yachts that my parents blew my college fund on it. Like, that kind of thing. So that's a very different and very specific kind of money trauma. But the money trauma you're talking about is a lot more typical, a lot more relatable for most people. And I think it's very common, at least amongst most people I know.
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A
Yes. So Bononi. So the copy I've offered to get from webpage, probably more general. I may lead that. But do some blog posts specifically focusing because I'm trying right now just to do a, like, brainstorming a blog post for, like. Yes. Like, shame that, you know, where. You know, where things don't make sense, where on paper things should be. Okay.
- [14:57]
B
Yeah. Are they using the word shame or is that a few sessions in
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embarrassment or. I should. I'm thinking of my last client. It's not that I'm putting in the word shame, but I shouldn't feel this way because my numbers. I'm fine. My question is, what are these people gonna seek therapy around this?
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B
It's a good question.
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Yes.
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So I think there would have to be a specific set of circumstances for someone to seek therapy for this specifically, versus it being something that your anxious clients often deal with.
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A
Yeah. I mean, part of what I put in, you know, when I, you know, kind of launched the announcement that I'm offering. This is just first talk about that. We never talk about it. That I've been practicing for 25 years and people have shared the most intimate and horrific traumas, and we don't. And I have no idea, like, what their income is, you know, that's where. And even I would say even my fellow therapist, that's why I post a couple times a year in our Facebook group. Like, is this just me freaking out right now? Yeah, like, and trying to. I mean, part of when I've been brainstorming about sort of, this isn't so much the ideal client, but it's around breaking the taboo.
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B
Right. So, like, one thing I would recommend. I think it's great. I would tie the blog posts into your typical niche.
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A
Okay.
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I would still have the page, because I think it's good. And I think when you have new clients sign on, this is a part of your assessment.
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Yeah.
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Like, what is your relationship with money?
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Like, yes.
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Probably you learned all sorts of good things for assessment that I don't know, but like asking them those juicy questions.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And that way, like, you've broached the topic, so as those stressors come up, they're more free to talk about it in session because you've already asked them.
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A
Yeah, that's a really like. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's good. And so the, like, the new page I have for money and trauma is pretty general. Do you think for the time being I can look? Because even when I mentioned a couple of colleagues, they're like, oh, yeah, like no one talked. But that's why I really think I have to do some targeted networking. Like financial planners.
- [18:02]
B
Yeah. So I think for the page, I go more specific to this woman we just talked about, because therapists are going to be like, oh, financial trauma. Yeah. But a layperson is like being in a relationship with someone who won't pay the bills. Like, what is financial trauma? You know, like there's just more exactly. Misunderstanding for that is potential. I would say networking with financial planners because they see this all the time.
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Yes.
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Yeah, I would say. I would use that specificity. Make sure that website is ready or that webpage is ready and. And say, hey, I'm a therapist who works with women who are really anxious around money. They have enough and they might come see you for help, knowing where to put it, but they don't pull the trigger. They keep overthinking. They're so afraid of spending money. And so I help them work through some of the trauma that might have led them there or some of the stories that have led them there so that they can feel safer to do what's best with their money, whatever that is. Okay.
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A
Okay.
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And financial planners work on referrals a lot. So you could also say, and I also have some clients who don't have financial planners. They're not ready for them when they first come and see me. But by the time we're midway through our work, they're feeling more confident to not keep everything in a savings account. So I'm also building my network of financial planners so I can refer reciprocity.
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A
There's something in it for them.
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Yeah.
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That I. In terms of reaching out, because again, I think I'm gonna start because I've already just Googled, because there are million. Yeah, we Start with people who are doing their marketing for women.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And then may the whole divorce thing. There's something like, I think that's interesting about women who never had to look at the. For whatever reasons their husbands or. Yeah. Which is a different niche. But again, I'm gonna be doing trial balloons, I think.
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Yeah.
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In terms of like the mechanism. Like are they gonna read emails? I mean, who do I. Yeah. Like it's been a long time since I've done any cold networking and I never think I got very much from the cold networking anyway. Yeah.
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I think you'll get more from financial planners.
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Okay.
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Because their referral system and because they tend to scale pretty fast. Like if they're full, they hire someone. They tend to be, at least in my experience, fairly responsive. So that gives you an opportunity. And finance. And they're not bound by a state. Financial planners.
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A
Well, that was gonna. That. Okay, I'll go back to the like now let me finish this thought. So like, if I do like an email, should I do to an office manager? Like I know the firm that I work with for my own financial planning has kind of like a coo. She's not just an admin. Should I be trying to find, figure out those or go straight to financial planners?
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B
Straight to the financial planners. And I would actually talk to yours first since you already have a relationship.
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A
Actually before I pulled the trigger. Well, he talked me out of my first plan, which was actually working with therapists. Not, you know, not like, not the practice building because marketing to me is still like pixie dust and good luck. But like I do think I've done a very good job at building systems and working to my own. But he's like, it doesn't sound like you're that passionate about it. So he encouraged me. Yeah, I think I might circle. And he's super interested. Like he may end up getting like a financial therapy certification. Uh huh. Yeah.
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B
Yeah. So talk to him and ask him for introductions.
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A
Okay. I never know the ethics that's part of. Okay.
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Yeah. I mean not to clients, but to other financial planners.
- [22:42]
A
Even in the firm because it's well established, LGBT friendly, progressive firm. The other thing I know with time. So one thing that did occur to me and in talking with this one person who started this great clinical financial therapy institute, he isn't bound by state line because people don't get reimbursed. At first I thought, oh, maybe this opens up. But I. But then I'd probably have to call myself Financial coaching. What are your thoughts? Should I just like, try to stay local for now.
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B
There are plenty of people locally.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Just to remember, you have plenty of people locally. Plenty of people in your state. You're solid. You don't have to go outside.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. And that takes me because I'm not gonna, like, do social. I've never done social media advertising because I never know how I would even target local, I think. So start with email. So start financial. I'll start with mine. I know this one therapist who does a lot of divorce mediation. I'll probably reach out to her then. Just for the colder ones. Do I just start with an email and then say I'd love to chat? Like maybe we could do a half hour zoom.
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B
Yeah. I'm trying to think, like, if you're talking colder ones for financial planners.
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A
Yeah.
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My hope is that your financial planner will be able to introduce you, like email introduce you to several people enough that that will keep you busy for a little while. And then you can ask them, hey, what other financial planners or other people do you think would really benefit from this? Would you be willing to email introduce me?
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A
It's not cold. Cold. Yeah.
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B
So then you don't have to do cold stuff because it's a warm handoff. And in the financial services realm, they do this a lot.
- [24:49]
A
Okay, okay, okay. No. So this feels like. I mean, there's a tiny, of course, impostery syndrome, but talking to this one guy who's done financial therapy for years and he is a generalist, he does everything from ADHD to like divorce or whatever. But here I see the benefit of, like, having more of a niche. Yeah. So, yeah, this feels better than just Googling and then sending dozens of emails. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else? In terms of Audi blog posts? I'm gonna, like, lean into LinkedIn more than I have in the past. And I'm trying to build my network.
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B
Yeah.
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A
In LinkedIn together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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B
And you'll notice when you're in there. I've been in there a little bit lately and it is a cesspool of AI written posts that then the only comments under most are like, also AI written. It's like, are there real people here? And they are if you message them. So, yeah. So making sure. I mean, you can like people's posts if they seem like they weren't completely created by robots. But I'm just shocked at how everything is the same exact thing and with all the exact markers of AI. Like, people aren't even trying to hide it.
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A
Like. No. I mean, and it's so tempting. Like when you only have. I guess I played around with AI and it's. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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B
I don't have a problem. I don't have a problem with using AI for things like that. But when people don't even edit it and it just sounds so clearly like they didn't even think about it. They just said put a prompt in and then copy pasted.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Then it starts to like, what's the point? But yeah. And I think just remembering in the financial services world, there are so many warm handoffs there. Like you asking, would you email introduce me to some of your colleagues that you think could benefit, like their clients could benefit. Is not you asking something untoward. Okay. Like, you would. You wouldn't say that to a psychiatrist. Will you refer to. You know, will you email introduce me to some of your clients? That would be good for me. You can say that to financial planners and they might even send you to clients, like email introduce you to clients. So. But they. They probably. Like, I would ask for other professionals.
- [27:28]
A
Yeah. I'm even thinking like if my guy could even in the firm. Because they're probably half a dozen planners in this firm. Yeah.
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B
Yeah.
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Yes.
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You're gonna be in good shape.
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A
Okay. This is really good. So I'm not. This saves me probably a couple months of just sending out too.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And not getting refund. No, this is really good. So I'm gonna go back and tweak and continue to. And I'll post on. I'll do a self promotion thing. I'll be more on the Facebook group. This is really. And then otherwise. So this feels like he gives me something to do. Like there's gonna be this need. And I don't need like hundreds of. Right, right.
- [28:23]
B
Yeah. Especially. Cause you work long term.
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A
Well, I could see it being. You know, and maybe it'd be okay. Like, I could see maybe this is a different model. I don't know.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Yeah, it's.
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B
We'll see.
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A
Okay. Oh, thank you.
- [28:40]
B
Of course. I'm so glad to see you.
- [28:43]
A
Yeah. Take good care. I hope you've been well. Okay.
- [28:46]
B
I've been good.
- [28:47]
A
Yeah.
- [28:48]
B
You take care too.
- [28:48]
A
Bye, Allison. Bye.
- [28:50]
B
Bye. If you're ready for a much easier practice, therapy notes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code abundant for two months. Free. If you're listening, you probably need some support building your practice. If you're a super newbie, grab our free check list using the link in the show notes. I'd love for you to follow rate and review but I really want you to share this episode with a therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.