Episode #738: How To Have Integrity As A Business Owner

Summary

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Abundant Practice Podcast

Episode #738: How To Have Integrity As A Business Owner
Host: Allison Puryear
Guest: Kim Wheeler Pratvian
Date: March 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the tension many therapists experience when running a private practice: how to operate with integrity and maintain social justice values inside a capitalist system. Host Allison Puryear and guest Kim Wheeler Pratvian offer compassionate, grounded advice for aligning business decisions with personal ethics—without sacrificing financial sustainability or professional fulfillment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Reconciling Values with Business Realities

• Listener question: How to reconcile care, access, and social justice values with the practicalities of charging, marketing, and growing a practice? ([00:08])
• Both Allison and Kim validate how fraught it can feel for value-driven therapists to step into the business owner role, especially when experiencing “selling out” fears.

Building a Practice Aligned With Your Ethics

• Equitable fee scales & reduced rates:
  Kim shares that therapists can design their practices to align with their particular ethical priorities—be it offering reduced rates, accepting insurance, or involvement in mutual aid funding.
  • Kim: “You can do what you want to do… That’s the beauty about you owning your own business.” ([03:32])
• Means testing debate:
  Kim explains her preference for offering sliding scales without means testing, stating, “I’ve always have reduced rates. I don’t believe in means testing. I feel like that’s a whole other thing. I’m not really a fan of it.” ([02:40])

The Importance of a Business Plan

• Whatever the model—nonprofit or for-profit—therapists need an actionable plan to ensure the practice is financially sustainable.
  • Kim: “You still have to have a plan because you know, the machine still has to keep cranking out, it still has to run, it still has to go.” ([03:12])
• Tailor your approach to the unique needs of your clientele, location, and what truly feels right for you (not what’s popular elsewhere).
  • Kim: “It isn’t a one size fits all… you can adjust it to meet the needs of your own clientele.” ([05:20])

The Math: Avoiding Burnout

• Allison stresses you must objectively assess your own financial needs before setting rates.
  • Allison: “You can’t just lead with your heart in a business. You have space for your heart… but a business requires that you are responsible for that business.” ([05:39])
• Cautions against setting rates so low you can’t pay yourself, taxes, or bills, leading to unsustainable “volume-based” practices.

Money as a Resource, Not a Value Judgment

• Kim reframes money as a necessary resource (“the gas to keep everything moving” [06:39]), challenging therapists to stop viewing money as inherently corrupt or shameful.
• Therapists deserve financial security too.
  • Kim: “We didn’t go into this to take a vow of poverty… you can’t really help someone else if you’re again, sitting right next to them having the same issues.” ([08:58])

Creative Approaches to Access & Support

• Alternatives suggested for funding accessible therapy:
  • Organize fundraisers or participation in mutual aid funds.
  • Accepting payment from third-party organizations to achieve both fair compensation and social justice goals.
  • Being clear on what “access” and “service” mean to you, and structuring offerings accordingly.
  • Kim: “We have to kind of be creative about it and also realize that each one of us still needs income. We still need to be able to pay ourselves and that what we do is a valuable service.” ([07:20])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Practice Autonomy:

  Kim Wheeler Pratvian (03:32): “You can do what you want to do… That’s the beauty about you owning your own business.”

• On the Business Reality:

  Allison Puryear (05:39): “You can’t just lead with your heart in a business. You have space for your heart… but a business requires that you are responsible for that business. And that means there’s cash flow.”

• On the Need for Financial Security:

  Kim Wheeler Pratvian (08:58): “We didn’t go into this to take a vow of poverty… you can’t really help someone else if you’re again, sitting right next to them having the same issues.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:08] — Listener question and context
• [02:10] — Kim’s perspective on values-driven business
• [03:12] — Importance of a business plan for any practice
• [05:39] — The necessity for therapists to do the math for sustainability (Allison’s advice)
• [06:29] — Kim’s breakdown of “money as a resource” and creative solutions
• [08:58] — Reframing financial security as necessary for effective care

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Summary Takeaways

• Therapists can (and should) build practices that reflect both their values and their needs.
• Being intentional about policies—sliding scales, fee structures, accessibility—lets business owners align with their integrity.
• Sustainable practice is not about self-sacrifice; it’s about balance and longevity.
• There are creative strategies to support access without burning out or undercutting your livelihood.
• Ultimately, integrity means honoring both your clients and yourself as a business owner.

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Transcript

[Kim Wheeler Pratvian]

Foreign.

[Host of Ask Abundance]

Welcome to Ask Abundance. Y' all ask the questions about having a fun and thriving practice. We answer them. We have a worksheet for you today so you can bring this answer into your life. If you want support in your practice, we have you covered with on demand or one on one support. Links for the worksheet and support are in the show Notes. Can't get enough Ask Abundance. Check out our YouTube channel for the entire library. Welcome back to Ask Abundance. Today I'm joined by Kim Wheeler Pratvian and Kim has been doing one on ones with us for years and years. If you end up wanting to do a one on one with Kim, you can hit me up on social and I will send you a link. Or you can click this in the show notes. If you're listening on the pod. Here is today's question. I didn't get into this work to run a business, but private practice means I'm operating inside a capitalist system. Whether I like it or not, charging fees, marketing, and thinking about income can start to feel at odds with my values around care, access and social justice. Sometimes I worry that wanting stability or growth means I'm selling out or losing my integrity. How do I reconcile my values driven with the reality that private practice is still a business? Juicy Juicy. So before we answer, I want to thank Therapy Notes for sponsoring Ask Abundance. I've talked about them for years. I know their features by heart, but what truly sets them apart is that they genuinely care about your experience. It's not just about troubleshooting. They actively implement user suggested features like Therapy Search, secure Messaging and their AI notes feature. Therapy fuel. Everyone at TherapyNotes believes in the product and wants you to love it too. Plus, they're independently owned, which means no venture capital and no pressure to prioritize investors over customers. This independence allows them to keep their prices fair, to focus on innovation and prioritize customer experience. With over 100,000 therapists already on board, they've proven that you don't have to compromise success for quality. If you're ready to see for yourself, try Therapy notes free for two months with the code [e-mail] all right, what are your thoughts, Kim?

[Kim Wheeler Pratvian]

I mean, it is tough and there are quite a few ways that you can, you know, I mean, go about this. And I feel like recently that a lot of people really want to do. They want equitable fee scales. They want to really have, you know, something that's like a little bit more of, you know, social justice. And I think that a lot of those things can still be created and you can still be able to have a thriving practice. And I think that it's one of those where you can start your practice that way or you can kind of pivot and you can kind of adjust to it. And I think just like if your values change and you can say, okay, well, there are particular practices that I want to implement or you know, policies that I want to implement in my practice that you can. But this is the beauty about you owning your own business is that you can do what you want to do. I'm a social worker though. I, I don't really do means testing, but I've always have reduced rates. I don't believe in means testing. I feel like that's a whole other thing. I'm not really a fan of it. But I also very much like will adjust what it is that a person's going to pay based on what it is that they can afford. But I also realized that in order for me to do that, I had to have some kind of business plan in place. Whether you are running a non profit or you're running a for profit business, you still have to have a plan because you know, the machine still has to keep cranking out, it still has to run, it still has to go. And once I kind of step back from that and kind of see that even in all the clinics that I worked in and all that, that they still had some kind of model that they had to follow through in order to be able to pay it. And so once we kind of look at it and say, okay, well what is it that I believe in? What is it that, who is it that I want to serve? And is it accessibility? Well, how can I actually do that? And what does that look like Accessibility for some person may be insurance. Another person may be that they do pro bono or they just do reduced rates. Another person may be on open path. Another person may say, okay, I'm going to do like the green bottle each person, you can do that. And it can, and it can be whatever it is that you want it to be. And so that's the beautiful part about it being your business. But you know, I think that, you know, sometimes we're really stuck on how, how something has to be that it has to be a particular way and it doesn't have to be how one person runs their business. You don't have to have a practice where you're charging $250 per session. You could have a practice where you're charging less than that. And also looking at the population that you work with, the location that you work with, the market that you're actually in the. And seeing if that's realistic and if that's appropriate for where you are. It isn't a one size fits all. And I think that that's what we have to kind of look at, that we're looking at what one person is doing in one particular part of the country or whatever the population are working with, that you can adjust it to meet, you know, the needs of like your own clientele.

[Host of Ask Abundance]

And I think you have to be really clear on your own math and your own needs.

[Kim Wheeler Pratvian]

Absolutely.

[Host of Ask Abundance]

Before you do this because I've seen so many people who really genuinely care about accessibility go into private practice and set rates that like they can't pay their taxes, they can't really pay their bills and they end up with this volume based practice where they have to see so many people. I saw this comedian the other day and he's like, I've got this landing scale therapist, she only charges me $25. So we're basically just two poor people talking. And it's like you have to do the math. You can't just lead with your heart in a business. You have space for your heart in a business, but a business requires that you are responsible for that business. And that means there's cash flow.

[Kim Wheeler Pratvian]

Well, absolutely. And I think that's the heart thing. And I, and this is when I talk to people about the fact that like if you want to open a private practice, it is a business and a business has to run. And money is a resource. I think we put a lot of other values onto it, but money is a resource. I mean we say money is power, money is this, but it is like it's the thing, like it's the gas to keep the moving and you have to kind of look at what it is that you need to ensure this will keep going. Like you need to pay your malpractice, you need to pay your taxes, you need to pay, if you have office overhead and you need to pay your Internet, you have all these other things along with you need to feed yourself, you need to feed the actual mini machine that's running the machine. Right. And that thing has to keep going. And I think that sometimes we tend to forget that because we really look at what the mission is and we really kind of get caught up in that. And we get caught up in the why. And the why is that because I want to help this person, I want to help that person. I want. And the thing Is that if we kind of take ourselves out of it and we say, okay, well, this is what the actual problem is, right? These are what the actual pain points are. We step back a little bit. It's like, okay, well, these individuals need help or this group needs help. Okay, but I'm only one person. Or we're only a collective, and we can do this. But wouldn't it be great if there were more people who could do this? Right? Or wouldn't it be great if we could stay here and not be burnt out? So there are other ways that we can do that. We can, you know, organize fundraisers. We can donate or encourage donation to mutual aid funds so that we can actually collect that. You can be a part of a whole bunch of other systems where you're like, okay, I can accept from this particular, you know, organization, and I can still collect my fee or close to my fee, but I'm getting it from a mutual aid organization. And so there are a lot of other ways that a person who may not have the actual funds themselves to pay for therapy could still pay your rate. But we have to kind of be creative about it and also realize that each one of us still needs income. We still need to be able to pay ourselves and that what we do is a valuable service. And I know that we go through this thing about this is what our worth is, but it's really hard to quantify work. Yeah.

[Host of Ask Abundance]

Oh, yeah.

[Kim Wheeler Pratvian]

And it's. It's really hard. And it kind of goes into this thing of value, and especially now with how our economy is. But we have to be real about the fact that we have to pay our bills. So. No, we didn't, you know, like, we didn't go into this to take a vow of poverty. Well, maybe I didn't, but I like to help people. But I also like to be able to eat and to, like, not have financial insecurity. And you can't really help someone else if you're again, sitting right next to them having the same issues.

[Host of Ask Abundance]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks so much, Kim and y'. All. We will have the worksheet, your free worksheet from this Ask Abundance in the show Notes. You've got a link. And if you're watching on social, you can DM the word sheets. And we'll see you next week if you're ready for a much easier practice. Therapy notes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code abundant for two months free. I hope that helped. Please get in touch with any of your questions for Ask Abundance. If you're listening, you probably need some support building your practice. If you're a super newbie, grab our free checklist using the link in the show notes. I'd love for you to follow rate and review, but I really want you to share this episode with a therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.