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Foreign.
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Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices. Just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practice building.com Links all right, onto the show. So I've talked about therapy notes on here for years. I could talk about the features and the benefits in my sleep. But there are a couple things I want you to know about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it into an ad script. First is that they actually care if you like their platform. They don't only make themselves available on the phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your hair out when you get stuck. They also take member suggestions and implement those that there's client demand for. Like Therapy Search, an included listing service that helps clients find you internal and external secure messaging. Clinical outcome measures to keep an eye on how your clients are progressing. A super smooth super bill process. Real time eligibility to check on your client's insurance. In my conversations with the employees there at all levels, they all really believe in their product and they want you to love it too. Second, they are proudly independently owned. Why should you care about that? Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved, the focus shifts from making customers happy to making investors happy. Prices go way up. Innovation plateaus. Making more money with as little output as possible becomes the number one focus. With over 100,000 therapists using their platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful and they don't have to sacrifice your experience to stay there. You can try two months free@therapynotes.com with the coupon code Abundant. Hi Allison, how you doing?
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A
Good. So good for this time together. Thank you.
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B
I know, I'm excited. Good. What would be helpful?
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A
Yeah, so like I put in my notes kind of prepping for this. I can give some context. So I'm about. I went full time private practice in August.
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B
Congrats.
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A
Yeah, thank you. And long time in agency work and hospital medical settings and so my practice is I'm gearing toward LGBTQ people. I'm a geropsychologist, so I specialize in aging so I've adjusted my population a little younger for some factors like insurance, Medicare. Like when I'm taking a mounted out of medicare and insurance. So private pay only and I'm just finding it's a Little difficult getting traction. So I'm having trouble kind of figuring out. I've been, you know, several months in now and not getting many referrals and kind of feeling like I was relooking at my business plan, my marketing strategies, and I was based on what you had recommended with kind of no more than five. So but finally then just having trouble kind of getting some traction and getting referrals. So very slow.
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B
Got it. So I know your demographic. What's your niche within that demographic?
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A
So what I love is the phoenix energy of people in these seemingly intractable situations like loss or death of someone, a new disability or illness, chronic illness. So things that are very much out of their control and then helping them find a new direction, new path that's in line with their values and very much an act person. So it's those feelings of, you know, I'm cornered, I'm stuck. I'm, you know, these things. I didn't choose to have this happen to me or I don't want to get older. This is what everybody thought aging would be like. And so trying to speak to that. My ideal client is probably more of a professional kind of person who has done a lot of things, maybe expanded their life, had a lot of success in different roles, work we had family, friends, part of the community. But they're feeling like, what is all this for? I don't see a future for myself or given what's happened. Like, I don't. Everything's changed. None of that matters now. I feel irrelevant because of my age or because of what's happened to me. So that's kind of the, I guess the pain points I try to speak to in my copy and my marketing. I think loneliness is part of it too. Feeling like, you know, we lost a generation with aids, and so, like, I'm kind of lonely. There's no one else my age. Like, I don't have a lot of peers to see how to do this, how to. How to get older. So that's. That's my ideal kind of client. Concerns. Yeah. And so I would. I really would appreciate. Yeah. Your. Your feedback. I mean, I guess trying to think how can I expand or change or modify my ideal client and. Or clarify that further, refine it and then also kind of my marketing approach.
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B
Yeah.
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A
With that.
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So I think first we need to hone your niche so that it's. Because right now, like, your ideal client is potentially going through 10 different things at once that might bring them to therapy. So I think it's identifying. I believe you that they're going through all those things at once. Just like we all have all sorts of shit going on at any given time. But what is it that brings them in? Is it the trauma of having lost a partner or a friend or something in the moment that makes them feel like this thing has happened and now my life is like grayscale? Is it the erosion of getting older and how it is the loneliness I think about, but it's hard for people to identify loneliness, I think. I think they pin it on all sorts of other things that aren't loneliness. Because loneliness feels or sounds childish and pathetic to a lot of people. Even though.
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Yeah.
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Even though, like, God, all of us experience loneliness and it's the biggest trigger for all the terrible things, all the terrible decisions we make in the world is almost always loneliness. So I think I might look at, like, what's the excuse they're putting on top of loneliness and market to that.
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A
Yeah, I'm trying to bring. I'm trying to brainstorm around that and I'm thinking, like, maybe I need to. I need to. I think I need to go deeper. And Yeah. I wondered how I could further specify, like, marketing to maybe just. I mean, I thought about, do I just do just grief? Like, I think, you know, or caregiver. I think any of those things could be like a thing like, oh, now my person has dementia and I need to have this role. Or like, I just lost someone, you know, someone I care about died.
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B
Yeah.
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As the triggering. And yet I want to work with a, you know, a range of concerns. I know that you say, like, you know, we'll. You'll see people beyond just your. Your identified client. Like your ideal client concerns. But yeah, with gender too. Like, that's like, what's the gender of my. My ideal client? And I've. I've only marketing has been LGBTQ plus. Like, trying to keep broad.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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And I guess in some contexts it's probably helpful, but other, you know, I don't want to work with just gay men, so I want gender diversity. I want to, you know, have a trans affirming practice, welcome people of all genders, like, practice. And I've tried to use that through imagery and things showing, you know, a range of ages of racial identities, gender identities. Try to be like, all are welcome. So I guess, how do I marry those speaking to that pain point and then. But being specific to like a certain gender or certain person.
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B
I mean, I think gender wise, we often have, like, I talk about an ideal client because it's One person having a specific gender. But that doesn't mean your niche has to be one gender. You can show multiple genders on your website. I think what it boils down to is the pain point. Specificity is going to be the biggest lever for you to pull. So if you were to go with grief, you're still getting all the other juicy stuff, right? Because grief doesn't exist in a bubble. So it might be you help someone resolve grief of someone passing and now they're dealing with aging stuff, or maybe their person has dementia. And also, like, why aren't their kids pitching in and helping? And also. Or like, I hate that we weren't able to have kids because, like, reproductive science wasn't a thing that it felt like two men could enter into in the 80s, you know, like all these different things. So you're still going to get the human experience, basically, even if you're just going for grief or going for caregiving. But what. What is hardest for a person in their life at any given moment is the thing that they're searching for.
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Right.
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So I think a lot of us, as we get older, do feel irrelevant or invisible or unimportant, but usually that pain isn't the thing that drives us to therapy, but it's something we'll talk about in therapy, right?
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It's underneath all of it, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's something. Because I. I guess how I've tried to approach that, I have different. I have a page on my website. I have page for, like, caregiving stuff, a page for grief page for health changes, challenges, I guess, partly for SEO, but also partly for probably, you know, trying to expand and keep the. Keep it broad. Would you think better to Nixos for now or try to really just be like, I'm the queer aging specialist or the queer grieving grief specialist?
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I think the queer grief specialist works because there's like a Venn diagram of all those things. Right. I feel like that works. I'm curious about your homepage and how you frame things. Like, if somebody lands there, what do they think you do?
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So I recently kind of redid my homepage a little bit to put up to it right at the top. Like, I'm here to help LGBTQ people with situations that feel out of their control, like grief, like caregiving a new illness. So I kind of spell that out directly at the top before the fold, so.
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B
Good.
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Yeah. And then I just moved my video, like my intro video, which I just remade toward the top as well. So I'm. It's all Kind of right there.
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Awesome.
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A
So I guess I wanted to name the. Name those concerns that someone could look at, like, right away, but, like, what we're talking about, maybe even focusing on the grief. I guess I'm seeing focus on the grief aspects of all of those. There's a grief with dementia, caregiving. There's a grief with loss of ability or disability. And that's part. I don't know, that's kind of been latent in my thought. Like, I think it's the. Not. Not just loss that's a death, but loss that is like grief that is related to loss of other things too. So maybe the grief is the capturing.
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Yeah.
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Kind of construct.
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And I wonder even if loss might be more of the trigger word for people than grief, because, like, if I'm losing my ability, let's say I'm gonna have to become a wheelchair user, for instance, depending on how defended I am, I might be able to identify with loss better than grief because grief is assigned to death in my head. Right. I mean, I think it depends on your ideal client. You're a caregiver. God, there's so much grief and loss there. Maybe you use both words and maybe like, you're the queer grief and loss therapist, helping clients navigate caregiving, loss and health concerns.
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A
Yeah, that's landing. I could see that as making up the focal kind of pain. That's like, I've lost everything.
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Yeah.
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Therapy.
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Yeah.
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I've lost my body or whatever, you know, like the way it was. Yeah.
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And so if you have that as like on the hero image on your website, and then you spend the next, you know, under the fold, you're talking about these three arenas that you work in briefly, and you link those back to the pages you've already written for each and tying in. Why are you the queer grief therapist and not just like the grief therapist? Like, how it's different for queer communities.
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Right.
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Where their support comes from or doesn't come from, if you've lost your generation, who's supporting you while you're supporting your loved one with dementia. These kinds of things. So helping them see that it's not. Not just you're like, hi, I'm queer, but you're like, I work with queer people. I understand what's going on for you on a really deep level.
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A
Yeah. That's really helpful. It's the unifying kind of concern. And then a related question that comes to mind is, do I need to say an age? Because if my concerns are going to skew toward an older age, Bracket, you know, like, I guess I have been shifting in some areas and some profiles and things like kind of ditching the people over 50, being like, wow. I mean, and people have asked me, they're like, well, can I refer someone who's 47 if they are like grieving? I'm like, yeah. If I resonate with them, like, please, you know.
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Yeah, yeah. And I wouldn't throw out all the older folks who are maybe with, maybe have Medicare because not everybody insists on using their Medicare.
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A
Right, right.
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And you know, a woman's wife might have breast cancer. There's caregiving and there's grief and loss in there. I think this spans the ages in a way that makes sense. Like you don't need to say, you know, the queer grief and loss therapist for people under 50. You know, you can just, you can have photos of people of different ages, different genders, different relationships and that communicates. I've got you. It's, you know.
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A
Yeah, yeah, that's helpful. I have been trying to do some of that and also my social media and things, trying just to show a range and younger and older. So that's helpful.
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B
And then I want to know your marketing strategies too.
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Yes. So I have my website and then I've been networking. So the networking piece has been probably the most enjoyable piece of this. Good. I'm not even from the get go, I was like, I'm not gonna be scared about like reaching out to people or like meeting other therapists. I worked in teams for a long time and so I feel like now my team is like all the people that I get to meet, you know, so that's been fun. I made some good connections. I've been really focusing on forbidden direct primary care practices. I'm currently doing geriatric care. Managers have done, you know, LGBTQ therapists, other folks, you know, working with people. I made some really good local and in other states connections. I'm multi state practice, but I've been focusing on Utah, Colorado and Wisconsin. So my connections in all those places, a lot of professional connections in Colorado, where I worked for a long time. So that's been going well. I keep track of everyone and follow up and have a little virtual coffee. So that part's the fun part for me right now. But then the other pieces, that's where I'm ambivalent. So I've been doing the social media thing. I was like, you know, I got a Facebook business page and I've been posting, I have been posting. I probably average two times a week, sometimes Three with just different content related to those concerns. You know, I'm not sure about the engagement from that or like how that's helpful. On my website I reference have my Facebook page and so it's like I want to have something there and helpful stuff if people were to go there. I've also been doing. Let's see. I wrote this down actually, because I know be.
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You knew I was going to ask.
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Yes. So I have the website networking and then social media therapist directories. So that's. So I'm on, you know, today like the principal ones I just in therapy den. But also some more niche ones. So there's the LGBTQ directory with the Gay and Lesbian Medical association. So you should get a referral from that.
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Awesome.
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And then some more niche ones. So those are kind of varied and I have generally the same content on them. Unsure. Like I'm tracking which ones I'm paying for, which ones I'm not paying for, and kind of any leads that are coming from the ones that I'm paying for, I'm going to ditch them probably after six months of there's nothing coming. And then the last one is actually that's it. Directories, media, networking website. 4.
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B
Okay, awesome. So if social media is feeling like kind of a slog, that's not yielding anything. I mean, that's the social media is the one that takes the most time and energy both to grow an audience and then once you've grown an audience, you have to nurture the audience and respond to the audience. So if that's not lighting you up, I might consider something else. I might consider SEO, which means you're also signing on for blogging. If writing makes you want to drive stakes into your eyes, you could use AI to help you. I would never just be like write a post about Gaiman grieving, you know, it would be terrible. And so if you're going to use AI, write a really, really specific prompt and then challenge the hell out of it. Every paragraph it writes, I want you to have a problem with and tell it to fix it and feed it anything that you've ever written so it can get your voice. If you like to write, then write.
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I do.
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Okay, good, Then write well.
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So that was one thing I thought blog, you know, because then connecting it to my. Because people I found who are related to my niche or in my niche, they're coming up on the SERP because of their blog. Like it's LGBT aging or whatever. So yeah, so I have thought about blogging versus social media.
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So yeah. Yeah. And if you Google the word keyword finder, you can put in for free. Like, you can put in different search things that you think your people might search. It'll tell you, like, how many people looked at it, how many search that if it's high demand or low demand, like, if other people have already written a bunch of blog posts about it. So you can kind of put in all the things you think that they would search, the things you want to write about. And it'll tell you, like, you know, you're going to be spitting in the ocean with this one, or you're going to be one of, you know, very few people who are addressing this, and it's needed. So.
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A
Okay. Yeah. I did a couple free trials with like, and I did. I think I'm a little lost in the keyword strategy piece. Like, I. I wasn't. And it didn't. I wasn't sure if my niche. Maybe I wasn't searching the right things. No one was coming up with, like, aging and lgbtq. And I wasn't sure, like, trying to think, like, what do people search for? Like, you know, So I think I got stalled at that level.
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B
I mean, I would look at, like, grief support for gay men or grief support for queer women or, you know, just, like, throwing out different things and seeing what shows up, what to do when your partner has dementia. Like, it's okay if it's not someone in the LGBTQ community finds you.
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Right.
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A certain percentage of the population will be lgbtq, so. And some straight folks will find you and they might be like, oh, this actually isn't for me, because the blog post is about what it's like for a queer couple or whatever.
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A
Right. I suppose I could still link my blog to my social page. Like, totally. It could come, you know, as I'm making it. So maybe in a future. Because that's. That's one thing I was thinking about and that does align. So I think I probably will pursue the blogging direction and it'd be less of just one off, like, social media posts.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But the other one is, like, the Facebook versus Google Ads. And, like, getting pulled into that seems like a tasty, tempting apple. And I'm like, no, I know.
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And I mean, my experience with Google Ads was never good. I had three different companies try. For me, none. I always spent more money than I made. And it's. For me, I was marketing eating disorder, so it was against the treatment centers. And there I was paying. This was in, like, 2013. No, 2014. I was paying like $25 a click, and nothing was coming from it. I can't even imagine what the treatment centers pay. So my niche is potentially like, it might be a. It might be erroneous for me to think that it doesn't work for a lot of people. I love the idea of let's throw money at something and make it work, but that's not always how it works. Usually Facebook ads don't work very well unless you're running something time limited, like a group. Or you could boost blog posts. I would vet it first and make sure that, let's say you posted on Facebook and one gets a lot more attention than the others. Maybe one yields a referral. Make sure all your blog posts have a really strong call to action. But figuring out which blog post is most effective in getting clients in the door, and that's the one you boost. You don't just like, throw money at it.
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Pay yield ones. Right?
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Yeah, yeah. And that way when you're spending money, it makes sense. So Google Ads are one of those things. Usually you need a pro to help you or do them. And since Google wants your money, they have people who will help you with your ad. So that might be a route to take. But I would have a really strong cap on, like, you know, like, you're gambling in Vegas and you were not spending more than X amount of dollars no matter what. And so doing that with Google Ads as well.
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Yeah, that might be more of a future state kind of thing or scaling or something. I don't know. But getting the capital. Need more cash flow, I think, before we get there.
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Yeah, yeah. And maybe by the time you have the cash flow, you don't need it. That's the hope, right? It means you've landed on something that's working. I think if you're blogging and you're going in and you're like tweaking the SEO for the blogs, it might be that you have different versions of the same blogs. You've got to make them like, at least 30% different. Which you could write one and then have AI make two versions that are 30% different. So that Google's not like, why is this same blog post on your site over and over?
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Okay.
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And each of them could be geared towards a different state so that when people Google, it shows up, you know, for them. Like if you're helping queer couples in Utah, then it shows up for them in Utah when they're searching. Because not all your blog posts need to be in your menu.
- [24:23]
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Oh, right. But it still pulls like from them.
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Yes.
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As.
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So you can have them like hidden, but they're still published. So it means they're not something that you're going to find in the menu, but they're still live on the Internet. So you could just keep one version in the menu, like in your blog menu and the others could be hidden.
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A
Oh, I didn't know that. That's, that's really helpful because yeah, the multi state thing was for getting more localized. Like I was reading, you know, you, you can't do every state per se, but like if you're focusing. I'm focusing on three states.
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B
So yeah, it does make it harder and like ultimately you have plenty of people in your state to keep you full. Yes. And I understand you've got connections in Colorado and it makes sense to like use those connections.
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A
Exactly. Now that's, that is helpful. Maybe somebody's clarifying the directions for me because I was getting a little languishing a little bit and like, how do I, how do I switch this up to be working better? I guess. One other final question I had too was so with my networking, I've been doing a lot of like cold emails, you know, some warm handoffs from people I know you already know, but. And I do ask, you know, like, who else should I talk to go to school but struggling. Like I've been doing more cold emails versus I'm not quite at the cold calling. What are your thoughts about, you know, cold email versus cold calling places? Because not everyone has a contact form or email available.
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B
I would only personally do cold calling if it's somebody I was really like top of the list kind of person I really wanted to meet and I would write myself a script. I mean it's basically this, the cold email script. Right. Like you can use the same script verbally, but I think in this world of like, we're all a little skittish on the phone, like it's personal or something, you know, and I mean, you're younger than me, but I know when I was a kid, like we were on the phone all the time, that's all we had. But now calling somebody feels like, I don't know, opening the bathroom door while they're peeing or something. And it's a business you're calling. Right. Ultimately, so. But I would probably write out a script and use it and only cold call the people that it's like, I know this would open a door and I genuinely want to meet this person and this is the only avenue towards that. Okay, but I wouldn't do it with like just somebody on the list who didn't have an email address.
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A
That's helpful. Yeah. Because I have been getting some people call back and I guess my feeling is like the right ones will find me if I'm out there. My message is good. So I feel like I'll just keep doing that then. This is giving me a lot to think about.
- [27:17]
B
Good, good. Yeah, I think just a little tightening with the niche because I think you're absolutely on the right track. You know your people so well, you know all the things they're dealing with. So we just have to hone to like the thing they're coming to therapy for four that they're conscious of. And then, you know, three sessions in. It's the whole list of everything that you care about working with.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So honing that. And then, you know, if social media isn't yielding a lot for you, then I would just use it as a like avenue for posting blog posts and seeing what lands there and not give it like not even counted as a marketing strategy anymore. And take the pressure off yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it can live there and be something that people find if they're, you know, if you reference it on your website, you can also take that off your website. But yeah, it doesn't have to be a thing. You have to go into multiple times a week and like chug along on.
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A
That's helpful. That feels right. I'm better spent getting some good blog content now as well because I'd like to develop eventually presentations, you know.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Doc talks, things like that that I could do for folks like on those topics too. So they align really well.
- [28:26]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
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A
As another means of being in the community or being out and about.
- [28:30]
B
Absolutely. I mean you could do some amazing CMEs for medical providers. Unlike the difference in grief and queer folks. There are some specificity just based on like culture and based on who's available still in the culture. So there's some things that you could do that really set you up as the expert that has them. Like, oh, I've got this grieving client that I'm seeing at 2:00'. Clock. I gotta make sure to send them to Weston.
- [28:58]
A
That makes more sense. Like a lightning rod. They'll see that's like the focus.
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B
Yeah. Yeah.
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A
This has been so helpful, Allison.
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B
I'm so glad. I'm glad.
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A
Yay. I'm so grateful. Thank you so much for, for sharing this time.
- [29:13]
B
Of course. Absolutely. Keep me updated in the Facebook group.
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A
I will.
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B
Okay, cool.
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A
Thank you. So much. Take good care.
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B
Bye.
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A
Bye.
- [29:22]
B
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