Episode #781: Being a Virtual Nomad Therapist, feat. Dr. Ann Krajewski - Abundant Practice Podcast

Loading summary

Transcript99 lines

[00:00]
A
Foreign. Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practice building.com Links all right, onto the show so I've talked about therapy notes on here for years. I could talk about the features and the benefits in my sleep. But there are a couple things I want you to know about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it into an ad script. First is that they actually care if you like their platform. They don't only make themselves available on the phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your hair out when you get stuck. They also take member suggestions and implement those that there's client demand for, like Therapy Search, an included listing service that helps clients find you internal and external secure messaging Clinical outcome measures to keep an eye on how your clients are progressing. A super smooth super bill process Real time eligibility to check on your client's insurance. In my conversations with the employees there at all levels, they all really believe in their product and they want you to love it too. Second, they are proudly independently owned. Why should you care about that? Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved, the focus shifts from making customers happy to making investors happy. Prices go way up. Innovation plateaus. Making more money with as little output as possible becomes the number one focus. With over 100,000 therapists using their platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful and they don't have to sacrifice your experience to stay there. You can try two months free@therapynotes.com with the coupon code. Abundant Therapists whose practices are full Is this actually the practice you want? If you're secretly stuck, you're cramming in evening sessions, glued to insurance panels, unable to raise rates. Limitless practice is your way out. Over 12 weeks, you'll make the changes you've been thinking about making for months so that you can work fewer hours while making more money. You'll design a schedule that actually fits your life and you'll say yes to only the clients you love. Together, we'll release you from your golden handcuffs. We're capping the cohort at 10 people because I'm personally running every individual, every group call, and every accountability check in. People on the wait list will get first dibs on those spots and then the opportunity to sign up will go out to the rest of my audience. So join the wait list now. I'm going to put the link in the show notes, and I look forward to helping you get your practice exactly where you want it. Welcome back to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm your host, Allison Parer, founder of Abundance Practice Building, and I'm here with Dr. Ann Krajewski. This is her second time on the pod, and I wanted to have her back because she does things differently than most therapists. She is nomadic. I guess you're probably less nomadic now than you once were, but with this baby. But you are international. You're living not in the United States, and you are licensed in the United States. And so you help therapists do some of the same if they want to get out in the world, some while still having their career. So thanks for being here, Anne. Yes.
[03:31]
B
Yes. I'm so excited to be back. It's so wonderful.
[03:34]
A
Yeah. So let's talk about some of the misconceptions therapists might have around how to do this. If they can do this, what it looks like. Tell me what you see.
[03:46]
B
So, I mean, I think the first misconception I hear literally almost every day is that it's not legal that a therapist license first restricts them from being able to go abroad or their malpractice insurance won't cover them. Um, those are, like, I think the two biggest legal misconceptions I hear. And what I love to tell therapists, I love to debunk that misconception because, actually, I feel like it was when Covid happened. So many therapists were told like, okay, your clients have to be inside the state. You're licensed. And I think so many of us just assumed that also meant that we had to be inside the state. We're licensed. But actually, your state licensing board really only cares about where your client is, because that's what, like, the purpose of the state licensing board is to help protect the client. There are some state licensing boards that, theoretically, I've never come across one. But theoretically, some people have said that their state licensing board restricts their location. But from all the ones I've looked up and looked into, all of them just restrict where the client is. And so that's one that I love to debunk because I think so many people go into grad school and are, like, fear mongered. And so when they get out of grad school and get their license, they're like, oh, my God, I don't want to lose this piece of paper. And this is one of the things I feel like they get so afraid of. But it's not like your licensing board doesn't own you. They don't get to restrict necessarily where your location is, so.
[05:30]
A
Right. Well, it's interesting with so many therapists that are licensed in so many different states, you know, like psypact, like, how. How does that work if you have to be in the state, you know.
[05:42]
B
Yes. That is one thing I will say. Psypact is one of the only things I've heard that actually restricts your location, which is insane. I do not understand it. But as a psychologist for sidepact, I can't use it because you have to be inside your state of licensure, like your home state, essentially, your life. Like, your state's license might not restrict you, but psypact does, which I think is ridiculous. But that is the. That is the one caveat.
[06:11]
A
So that's interesting. Okay, so let's say I was a psychologist in North Carolina and I had psypact. I can be seeing clients in all these other states as long as my body is in North Carolina.
[06:21]
B
Yes, exactly. But if you're just seeing clients in North Carolina, It's. I'm probably 99% sure North Carolina does not care where you are.
[06:29]
A
Yeah, okay.
[06:30]
B
They only care as long as your clients are there. And so if you're a psychologist, sadly, you can't use the wonderful thing, which is I pact if you want to travel abroad. But I feel like a lot of therapists think that they have to get licensed in multiple states to have a profitable practice. But I don't think that's true. Like, I think you're fine with just one, but I think so many of them get licensed in, like, five different states. And I'm like, you do not have to do that.
[06:54]
A
And I would say it actually slows things down in terms of, like, building and marketing your practice, because you're like, in this situation where now you have to market in multiple places, which takes a lot more time and energy.
[07:08]
B
So much like, you're putting. You're spreading your eggs in too many different baskets, and you're having to pay all of those fees in terms of licensing, getting licensed again, or renewing, it's too much. I'm licensed in three states, and I'm like, I don't like it. I don't know why I did this.
[07:26]
A
Yeah, it's a license.
[07:27]
B
I want to go back to just one.
[07:28]
A
Yeah, yeah. And you can.
[07:31]
B
Yes. And then the other Thing is, like, a lot of people think malpractice insurance, like, doesn't cover you, but there are some malpractice insurances that won't cover you if you're physically located abroad. But there are three that I. That I personally know of, which is the Trust, American Professional Agency and cph. As long as the file is claimed in the United States, so it's with your United States clients and you're following the rules and regulations of your state board, they will cover you as long, like, if you're physically located abroad at the time of service. So that's another one people get really afraid of. But it's not. That's usually not a problem at all. Like, if your malpractice insurance has an issue, you can just switch. But that's another one that I feel like they often are like, no, my malpractice insurance doesn't let me. And I'm like, no, just switch.
[08:24]
A
Right, right.
[08:25]
B
Yeah.
[08:26]
A
And I think this also speaks to. And probably the other misconceptions we talk about are going to. This speaks to resistance.
[08:33]
B
Yes.
[08:33]
A
If therapists are talking to you about this, they want to be doing it, but they're hitting up against their own fear. That has nothing to do with things that they just need to do to be able to do what they want to do. And we all have these blocks, but, yeah, they're just throwing blocks in front of themselves that don't even need to exist.
[08:51]
B
Yes, I think that's very true. And I think, like, it's interesting because some malpractice insurances, for example, don't allow you. But I think oftentimes they're like, oh, one won't allow me. And so that means that it's like, none will allow me. Like, it's not even a thing that's possible. And so, yeah, I think I feel like people come up to one roadblock and then think it's not like, it's just like, oh, I have to throw this out the window now. But that's not true. I think if you hit a roadblock, there's definitely other ways around it. You just have to kind of get creative. But I think that's probably very true for a lot of things when it comes to business and private practice. And I'm sure you see it every day as well, helping therapists build practices.
[09:33]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And we need to be willing to do our own research and, like, get scrappy sometimes instead of just being like, yes, the first malpractice insurance I ever signed up for doesn't allow this. So I guess I don't get to do it.
[09:48]
B
Yeah, yeah. I like to say if there's a will, There's a way.
[09:51]
A
100%. 100%.
[09:53]
B
Even if I'm like, if you're, if you're, you know, your licensing board doesn't allow it. If you're that unicorn licensing board, which I'm still determined to find them because people say they're there and I'm like, where? But if you do, like, you can get licensed in another state. There's plenty of other states that allow it. Like, obviously you might have to start over with marketing and things, but if you want to go abroad and that's your dream, I mean, there's a way.
[10:17]
A
Right. And it takes work. I think that's another thing that, like, in this environment with the platforms and insurance being evil and all sorts of things. Yes, it makes sense. It just makes sense too. If you want to build the thing you want to build, it's going to take work. It's not going to be.
[10:36]
B
Yes.
[10:37]
A
So I would love for therapists to start to really embrace this. Was there a time when it was easy?
[10:41]
B
Yes, there was a time.
[10:42]
A
And I'm sorry it's not 2021. I would love it to be 2021 from a marketing perspective for all of us. And if you want this, work for it. No big deal. You've worked for things in the past.
[10:55]
B
Yeah. Yes, exactly. I mean, you have a whole master's in a license.
[10:59]
A
Yeah.
[10:59]
B
You worked really hard. Yeah. But I also think it's a hard. I. This is something I see too. It's like when it comes to marketing, people just want it to be easy. And I'm like, you know, sorry. Like, I wish it, I wish it was true. I wish it was easy.
[11:13]
A
But yeah, I'm excited for easy all day.
[11:15]
B
Building something good takes work, you know. Totally. But that is the, the next myth I have is it's not profitable to have a virtual private practice. Like, I think a lot of people nowadays, like, oh, you know, people want in person or like, I feel like there's like this thing going around where it's like, oh, well, you know, to be competitive as a therapist in private practice nowadays, you need to have an in person office. And, you know, so I think there's a lot of misconceptions that you can't have a virtual practice anymore now, like post Covid. But I definitely think this is a myth because I have a profitable virtual practice and I know plenty of other people that do as well.
[11:56]
A
Yes. I mean, the majority of therapists I work with have virtual practices, right? Yeah, the platforms are all virtual. Like, I mean, yeah, literally.
[12:07]
B
Well, and I think, you know, as someone who's been coaching therapists in this, I often ask, I'm like, okay, well, like, how are you marketing to virtual people now? And they're like, oh, well, I'm not, I'm like either working for a practice that, you know, like has them be in person or they have in person on their website. And I'm like, well, well, if you're talking to people who, like, if you're speaking to in person, people are going to want in person or going to ask for that. But if you clearly state on your website or you even try to position virtual as a benefit, which there are like, obviously I can understand some people think in person has its benefits, which it does. But if you're speaking to in person, then in person people are going to seek you out. And if you're speaking to virtual, virtual people are going to seek you out. But then also I think to your point earlier, I do think there, because of COVID there are a lot of stories that circulate about virtual therapy that, you know, a therapist lets their family walk in their room or like the therapist is in the kitchen. And, you know, I think there are some, like, horror stories, especially because of better help and all of these platforms that don't pay the therapist well, you know, and so therapists are, you know, maybe not able to provide the best quality care or there's just bad therapists out there too. That I do think that there is a little bit more legwork you might have to do to show trust to the client. And so that's what I also like to tell people. If they want to build a virtual practice that, you know, they do need to care about marketing and they have to put effort into marketing. Like, you want to build that trust with whoever is landing on your website. Because if you're just being compared to another therapist who also has general marketing, but they offer in person, that person might be like, oh, it'll be like it. You know, they might want to trust that person more or whatever. But I like to, like, I feel like this is a myth that it is possible to build a profitable practice that's virtual, but you do have to do some legwork. But I think that's true for in person people as well. Like you're saying, I don't. I think the days where people are banging down your door to get into therapy isn't true anymore. I think there's, you know, the field is. There's just a lot more competition. But I feel like it's easy to be competitive because you just need to invest in your website and the words on your website. And you could be like a leg up from probably 90% of therapists.
[14:35]
A
Right. I think that that's an interesting thing that people are like. I mean, you do need to help people find your website. Like, there are things you need to do if you're not established.
[14:43]
B
Yes.
[14:44]
A
Like, that's more of an uphill battle than it once was. But having a website that really speaks to your ideal client is like night and day gonna make a difference.
[14:54]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Like the therapist I coach and I help them niche down. And I hear so many times, oh, I updated my website or my Psychology Today with my niche and someone that I'm speaking to reached out and I'm like, it worked.
[15:07]
A
Yeah.
[15:08]
B
I'm telling you.
[15:10]
A
Yeah.
[15:10]
B
It's so. It's like they're so surprised.
[15:13]
A
Yeah.
[15:14]
B
Yeah. I feel like you have to do certain things, but it is completely possible.
[15:19]
A
Yeah.
[15:20]
B
The next myth that I have is that it's too expensive. I think a lot of therapists, when they think about going abroad or taking their private practice abroad, are feel like they have to have a ton of money saved up. Like, they get really scared about, you know, needing like a huge cushion. Like, I. There was a therapist who I first spoke to years ago and I reached out to her recently and she's still like, I still don't have enough money saved. And I'm like that. To me, I'm like, okay, that is fear. That is, you know, a mindset thing. Because actually living abroad is ex. Like it is. I think it's so wild how inexpensive it is compared to the United States,
[16:05]
A
depending on where you are.
[16:06]
B
Right.
[16:06]
A
Like if you're going to London or Paris, maybe not.
[16:08]
B
Yes, but. Yes, yes. But even, you know, even then I think groceries are cheaper in those. Like, you know, there's. I think there are things like you go to Paris and you probably can walk. You're not having to pay insurance and a car payment, you know, So I think there are a lot of ways in which, you know, rent might be comparable, but there's a lot of living expenses. Health insurance is a, you know, much more affordable. So there's just a lot of things about day to day life in America that are just so much more reasonable in another country. But I think the misconception people, a lot of people tend to have is it's like, okay, you're going on a two week vacation. Like for some people who have only been abroad for vacations might assume like, oh, it's really expensive because, you know, when you go on a two week vacation, you're spending so much more money. But when you're, you know, spending a month or two in a place, it's so much more affordable. And so that's when I like to tell people, because I think they just assume it's so expensive and that they have to have this like huge savings to do it. Which I mean, I will say, like, if you're wanting to immigrate to another country or get a visa, like a longer term visa, that country will probably have some financial barrier or sometime requirement for you to be able to have a longer term visa. But I feel like that's a lot less different than assuming that it's just going to be really expensive. But like I lived abroad for like two years and I had a emergency fund, but I didn't touch that emergency fund until I went on maternity leave for my daughter. And that was the only reason I did it was because it was a maternity leave. But so I think a lot of people think that it, it's really expensive. It's really wild how it's not expensive.
[18:07]
A
Yeah. I remember when we were talking last time, was it Thailand?
[18:12]
B
I was, I think the first it was I was in Morocco and then the next time I was in Thailand. That's right, that's right.
[18:18]
A
Yeah. And so just thinking about how you were giving some details on like what it costs to live and it's like, oh, like if you have an established practice already and you want to do this, holy damn, like, oh, your money is going to go so much farther
[18:33]
B
in so many places, so much further. It's so insane. Well, I mean, I guess since the last time we talked, I can even speak to. I think, you know, one thing, people also are like, oh, well, what about medical stuff? It's so expensive. But I didn't have health insurance when I was living abroad. Like I would just out of pocket, which it was like, you know, I had to go to the urgent care and it was like, what, $20 in Bali, you know where it's like in the states, that's like $150. Yeah, but I didn't have health insurance. I had a travel insurance that included like emergency health care, like if something were to happen. But that was like $50 a month. But I even gave birth to my daughter in Thailand. And that was I ended up having to have a C section. So I ended up paying the most that I would have had to pay because I had to pay for a natural birth and a C section. The way their hospital works. And I only spent it was less than $6,000, which is like some people pay that with health insurance.
[19:35]
A
Right.
[19:35]
B
And that's like probably what you're paying for premiums, right?
[19:40]
A
Yeah. You still wouldn't have met my deductible at 6,000.
[19:43]
B
Right, exactly. And especially, as you know, that's, you know, even speaking to people who have employ who pay their health insurance as therapists, I think it's so expensive to have health insurance because you're having to pay completely out of pocket and it can be really expensive. But living abroad, I save so much money on health insurance and I feel like I get so much better quality care. I could have paid significantly less if I was at a different hospital. But the hospital I was at was like the top notch, you know, like five star hotel hospital, you know.
[20:22]
A
Yeah.
[20:22]
B
And it was still cheaper than what people pay to have crappy quality care in the United States. And so, you know, that's like another thing is like people are afraid of like, well, what if an emergency happens? And I'm like, I promise you the emergency is going to cost significantly less than if you were in the States.
[20:38]
A
Yeah. What are some other misconceptions?
[20:42]
B
Okay, so another misconception is time zones make it too complicated. Which this one, you know, I love to talk about this one too.
[20:54]
A
Yes.
[20:55]
B
Time zones can be something you have to navigate. And there are a couple of things that I feel like you have to do to set yourself up. Well, but in general, I think time zones aren't, you know, as terrible as some people might assume. But I think oftentimes when people are like, oh, but like time zones, they think like, oh, well, that's not changing, changing their schedule with their clients.
[21:22]
A
Right.
[21:23]
B
Like their people are afraid to change their schedule. Like there was a student I was working with and she in my accelerator that I ran who was like, oh, well, like my clients, I see them in the evenings and if I want to go to Turkey because she really wanted to go to Turkey. Like I would be working in the middle of the night and I'm like, oh, well, like could you just move them to the morning time? You know? And she was like, oh, like almost like too afraid to do that. But I think oftentimes, like people are like, oh, well, I have to run my US practice exactly the same Like, I can't change anything. Like, I have to keep my clients in the evenings. That's the only time they'll ever be able to see me. And so if I try to go to somewhere like Europe, then I'm gonna be working until 2am, which I just don't like. I'm like, I think people are a lot more flexible. Like, your clients are going to be a lot more flexible than you're assuming. Like. And I was something I fell into because I like my kind of lore as I kind of impulsively moved to Morocco. Like, I was already virtual. Then I kind of impulsively moved to Morocco, and I was seeing people until 2am and I was seeing them from like 5pm to like 1am or 2am, depending on the time zone. Like the States. In the States, the. The States, does the time change, But a lot of other countries do not do the time change anyway, so I was seeing people until 2am but then when I got pregnant, I was like, I can't do this anymore. I have to change them. And I did, and people were fine. And now I change things. Like, I change my schedule every so often whenever I change locations. And most clients are understanding of it. Like, I obviously have to hold space for if they have feelings, because some people do have feelings. And, you know, that's okay. That doesn't mean you shouldn't change your time. But, you know, I feel like as therapists, it's so easy for us to like, get so anxious about not upsetting our clients and having our clients, you know, putting ourselves in difficult position for our clients, which it's like, I understand to some degree, like, we are a business. Like we are assert. Like we are providing a service. And so we need to be very mindful of our clients. Clients. But like, this idea that, you know, you can never see clients in the morning or you can, you only have to have clients in the evenings because that's the best time for your clients. I think it's such a misconception. I think clients are. Unless you have a. Like, you know, you see surgeons, you know, see teachers.
[24:07]
A
Yeah, teachers are the first.
[24:08]
B
But even then, I've had a teacher and she would see me during her office hour. Like her, you know, her planning period or something. Like, you know, so I just, like, I think therapists, like, we get so rigid in our heads about how something has to work, but there's so much flexibility.
[24:24]
A
Yeah.
[24:25]
B
You know, like, it's just, you know, I think that. Yeah. So that's just like one of the misconceptions is that, you know, that you have to run it exactly how it's in the United States and the time zone makes it too complicated. But I also think too, the other thing about time zones is that a lot of people are having to see 25 or even 20, 25, 30 plus clients because it's so expensive in the United States. And if you have an in person office, then it's even more expensive and you just have to see a certain amount of clients to live a certain lifestyle. But when you're living in other countries or you kind of live abroad, fuller time. I've seen 13 to 15 clients a week, you know, like three client, three to four clients a day and have him living high on the hog, you know. Yeah, like I'm living well, that's like, you know, I charge like 200 plus dollars an hour. So that is, you know, what, 9 to 11 thousand dollars a month. But like when my overhead for my business and my living expenses is like $3,000, wow. There's so much wiggle room. I could probably even see less people. But that I think is another thing when it comes to time zones. It's like, okay, yeah, you're thinking like, oh, I, how am I going to fit 30 clients? And when I'm living in Europe? But it's like, well, you're going to be living in Europe and you can probably find a place that you can live where your living expenses are very, make you very comfortable seeing 10 to 15 clients a week. But I think it's just like one of those things where like I said, I think we get so stuck on one idea, it's hard to imagine something different. And I think that's just like one of the things. It's like, yeah, I only have to see 13 clients a week, which is like wonderful. You know, I feel like so many of us want to see that many a week. Like any more than that is really draining.
[26:25]
A
That takes some of the pressure off of marketing too because you don't have to bring in as many people.
[26:31]
B
Yes, exactly. I think that is like very true. And a lot of us, like, I feel like a lot of therapists don't like think that they're like, oh, like oh, I have to, you know, when it comes to marketing, like I have to generate so many leads. But like once you build a practice, like and you provide quality care, you know, you are probably, you probably don't need more than a couple a month if that.
[26:54]
A
Right, right.
[26:56]
B
Once you have a stable long term caseload you know, my books have been closed for a while. I haven't had to take anyone new on, you know.
[27:06]
A
Yeah.
[27:06]
B
But it's just the building part. But after that, it's like, it's really a dream. Private practice is a wonderful.
[27:12]
A
It is, it is.
[27:14]
B
Yeah.
[27:14]
A
When it's rolling in the early stages, it does suck. People validate that it sucks for the early stages.
[27:21]
B
It takes work. It's temporary suckage.
[27:24]
A
Yes.
[27:25]
B
I know me, like, I me, I started my practice in 2021. End of 2021. Beginning of 2022. And it was a lot of work, but I'm like, look at me now. I'm like, I have so much freedom and I'm living well. And I just like, I can't believe there's some therapists who, you know, my heart hurts for them where they're seeing insurance clients and working 30 plus hours. I'm like, how are you living? How are you alive? Yeah, yeah, it's hard. It is, but it's like, you know, choosing your heart, you know, And I think that's.
[28:02]
A
That's a conversation I've been having with
[28:03]
B
people a lot lately.
[28:04]
A
Right. It's like, Yeah, I find that there's just like, it's going to be hard no matter what. Like you said. Which hard do you want? Do you want the yes I'm having to market and this puts me out there in a way I'm not comfortable with. Or do you want to be broke or do you want to work broke
[28:24]
B
and like, emotionally deaf? Yeah. Because you're, like, depleted.
[28:28]
A
Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So amazing. Thank you so much for your time. We're going to make sure that people can get in touch with you. We're going to put your info in the show notes and. Yeah. And then you're doing a training for the Abundance party. Yes.
[28:47]
B
In August. I'm so excited.
[28:49]
A
So we'll have an opportunity for people to ask you lots of questions, hopefully, and for you to dive deeper. So for those of you listening who are not yet in the Abundance party, come and join us. And I look forward to learning more and fantasizing more. Just not in the place in my life where I can do this. But I keep having. I keep ending up watching shows that I don't know are set in Tuscany, reading books that I don't know we're going to be set in Tuscany. Like, it keeps showing up.
[29:15]
B
And I'm like, I get it, I get it.
[29:17]
A
I'm supposed to be somewhere with an olive grove.
[29:24]
B
The universe is speaking to you. It's like saying, come. Come to the beauty of Italy. Yes, yes, yes. I love it. Amazing. Well, I will talk with you soon. Yes. Okay.
[29:35]
A
See you later. Bye.
[29:37]
B
Bye.
[29:39]
A
If you're ready for a much easier practice, Therapy Notes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code abundant for two months. Free. If you're listening, you probably need some support building your. If you're a super newbie, grab our free checklist using the link in the show Notes. I'd love for you to follow rate and review, but I really want you to share this episode with a therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.

Summary5 min read

Abundant Practice Podcast – Episode #781 Title: Being a Virtual Nomad Therapist, feat. Dr. Ann Krajewski
Host: Allison Puryear
Guest: Dr. Ann Krajewski
Date: August 5, 2026

Overview

This episode dives deep into the realities and myths of being a “virtual nomad therapist”—that is, running a U.S.-licensed private practice while living abroad. Dr. Ann Krajewski, returning guest and seasoned international teletherapist, joins host Allison Puryear to debunk the biggest misconceptions, discuss practicalities like licensing and insurance, address mindset blocks, and share the freedoms and challenges of the mobile therapist lifestyle. The tone is encouraging, pragmatic, and occasionally humorous, as both women aim to empower therapists to pursue greater autonomy, flexibility, and sustainability in their practices.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Legal and Licensing Myths for Nomad Therapists

[03:45–09:51]

Myth: You can’t legally practice as a therapist while living abroad.
- Reality: Most state licensing boards only care where the client is located, not the therapist.
  - Dr. Ann: "Your state licensing board really only cares about where your client is, because that's what, like, the purpose of the state licensing board is to help protect the client." [04:25]
- Exception: PSYPACT (for psychologists) does restrict providers to being physically in their ‘home’ state.
  - Dr. Ann: “Psypact is one of the only things I've heard that actually restricts your location, which is insane…I can't use it…you have to be inside your state of licensure.” [05:42]
Multiple State Licenses: Not required for a profitable virtual practice; having too many can complicate marketing and admin.
- Dr. Ann: “I’m licensed in three states, and I’m like, I don’t like it. I don’t know why I did this.” [07:08]

2. Malpractice Insurance Concerns and Solutions

[07:31–09:51]

Myth: Malpractice insurance won’t cover you if you’re living abroad.
- Dr. Ann: "There are three [insurers] that I personally know of…they’ll cover you as long as the file is claimed in the United States…they will cover you if you're physically located abroad at the time of service." (The Trust, American Professional Agency, CPH) [07:31]
- If one insurer says no—just switch.
Mindset Piece: Often, perceived ‘impossibilities’ are really fears, not facts.

3. Marketing & Profitability of a Virtual Practice

[09:53–15:18]

Myth: Virtual therapy isn’t profitable anymore; clients only want in-person.
- Dr. Ann: “I have a profitable virtual practice and I know plenty of other people that do as well.” [11:14]
Effective Marketing: Speak to the virtual client—position virtual as a benefit, not a concession.
- Dr. Ann: “If you're speaking to in person, then in person people are going to seek you out. But if you're speaking to virtual, virtual people are going to seek you out.” [12:07]
- Stand out by niching and updating your website: “I updated my website or my Psychology Today with my niche and someone that I'm speaking to reached out and I'm like, it worked.” [15:07]
Effort Required: “Building something good takes work, you know…But that is the next myth I have is it's not profitable to have a virtual private practice.” [11:14]

4. Financial Reality of Living and Practicing Abroad

[15:19–20:38]

Myth: Living and working abroad is prohibitively expensive or only for the wealthy.
- Regular living expenses, health care, and insurance can be much lower outside the United States.
Dr. Ann: “I lived abroad for like two years and I had an emergency fund, but I didn't touch that emergency fund until I went on maternity leave for my daughter.” [17:55]
- Example: She gave birth in a top-notch Thai hospital for less than $6,000—less than many U.S. deductibles/premiums. [19:34]
Health coverage strategies: Travel insurance for emergencies, cash payments for routine care.

5. Time Zones: Challenge or Excuse?

[20:42–26:24]

Myth: Time zone differences make virtual nomad therapy unworkable.
- Dr. Ann: “Time zones can be something you have to navigate…but in general, I think time zones aren't, you know, as terrible as some people might assume.” [20:54]
- You can (and should) talk to your clients about adjusting schedules if you move.
- Dr. Ann: “I think clients are…a lot more flexible than you’re assuming. Like…I was seeing people until 2am…but then I got pregnant, I was like, 'I can’t do this anymore.' I have to change them. And I did, and people were fine.” [23:06]
Redefining the practice: Lower living costs abroad mean you may only need 10–15 clients/week to live comfortably.
- Dr. Ann: “I’ve seen 13 to 15 clients a week…when my overhead…is like $3,000, wow. There's so much wiggle room.” [24:25]

6. The Temporary Hard of Starting Up

[27:12–28:28]

Early growth is hard, but freedom and sustainability are worth it.
- Dr. Ann: “I started my practice at the end of 2021…a lot of work, but…I have so much freedom and I’m living well.” [27:25]
Choose your “hard”: Marketing and stepping out of your comfort zone, or stagnation and burnout.
- Allison: “Which hard do you want? Do you want the ‘yes, I'm having to market’…or do you want to work broke and like, emotionally deaf? Yeah. Because you're, like, depleted.” [28:04]

Memorable Quotes

On legal fears:
Dr. Ann: “Your licensing board doesn’t own you. They don’t get to restrict necessarily where your location is...” [05:10]
On adapting your practice:
Dr. Ann: “We get so rigid in our heads about how something has to work, but there’s so much flexibility.” [24:07]
On marketing & thriving virtually:
Dr. Ann: “Once you build a practice and you provide quality care…you probably don’t need more than a couple [of new clients] a month, if that.” [26:54]
On pursuing the lifestyle you want:
Allison: “If you want this, work for it. No big deal. You’ve worked for things in the past.” [10:41]
On lifestyle freedom:
Dr. Ann: “I’ve seen 13 to 15 clients a week…and have been living high on the hog, you know.” [24:25]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Legal/Licensing Myths: 03:45–09:51
Malpractice Insurance Reality: 07:31–09:51
Virtual Practice Profitability & Marketing: 11:14–15:18
Cost of Living Abroad: 15:19–20:38
Time Zones & Practice Logistics: 20:42–26:24
The Reality of Start-Up Energy: 27:12–28:28

Conclusion

Dr. Ann Krajewski passionately debunks the myths holding therapists back from becoming “virtual nomads” and offers practical, actionable advice for those eager to embrace a more flexible and fulfilling lifestyle. The episode provides reassurance, inspiration, and a roadmap for therapists stuck in agency jobs or chained to their desks to start imagining—and creating—a practice that fits the life they truly want.

For More

Connect with Dr. Ann Krajewski [info in show notes]
Join the Abundance Party for deeper training with Dr. Ann
Find more resources at www.abundancepracticebuilding.com

“The universe is speaking to you. It's like saying, come. Come to the beauty of Italy.” — Dr. Ann Krajewski [29:24]

Loading summary

Transcript99 lines

[00:00]
A
Foreign. Hi, welcome to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm Alison from Abundance Practice Building. I have a nearly diagnosable obsession with helping therapists build sustainable, joy filled private practices, just like I've done for tens of thousands of therapists across the world. I'm excited to help you too. If you want to fill your practice with ideal clients, we have loads of free resources and paid support. Go to abundance practice building.com Links all right, onto the show so I've talked about therapy notes on here for years. I could talk about the features and the benefits in my sleep. But there are a couple things I want you to know about therapy notes that doesn't typically make it into an ad script. First is that they actually care if you like their platform. They don't only make themselves available on the phone to troubleshoot so you don't pull your hair out when you get stuck. They also take member suggestions and implement those that there's client demand for, like Therapy Search, an included listing service that helps clients find you internal and external secure messaging Clinical outcome measures to keep an eye on how your clients are progressing. A super smooth super bill process Real time eligibility to check on your client's insurance. In my conversations with the employees there at all levels, they all really believe in their product and they want you to love it too. Second, they are proudly independently owned. Why should you care about that? Because as soon as venture capital becomes involved, the focus shifts from making customers happy to making investors happy. Prices go way up. Innovation plateaus. Making more money with as little output as possible becomes the number one focus. With over 100,000 therapists using their platform, they've been able to stay incredibly successful and they don't have to sacrifice your experience to stay there. You can try two months free@therapynotes.com with the coupon code. Abundant Therapists whose practices are full Is this actually the practice you want? If you're secretly stuck, you're cramming in evening sessions, glued to insurance panels, unable to raise rates. Limitless practice is your way out. Over 12 weeks, you'll make the changes you've been thinking about making for months so that you can work fewer hours while making more money. You'll design a schedule that actually fits your life and you'll say yes to only the clients you love. Together, we'll release you from your golden handcuffs. We're capping the cohort at 10 people because I'm personally running every individual, every group call, and every accountability check in. People on the wait list will get first dibs on those spots and then the opportunity to sign up will go out to the rest of my audience. So join the wait list now. I'm going to put the link in the show notes, and I look forward to helping you get your practice exactly where you want it. Welcome back to the Abundant Practice Podcast. I'm your host, Allison Parer, founder of Abundance Practice Building, and I'm here with Dr. Ann Krajewski. This is her second time on the pod, and I wanted to have her back because she does things differently than most therapists. She is nomadic. I guess you're probably less nomadic now than you once were, but with this baby. But you are international. You're living not in the United States, and you are licensed in the United States. And so you help therapists do some of the same if they want to get out in the world, some while still having their career. So thanks for being here, Anne. Yes.
[03:31]
B
Yes. I'm so excited to be back. It's so wonderful.
[03:34]
A
Yeah. So let's talk about some of the misconceptions therapists might have around how to do this. If they can do this, what it looks like. Tell me what you see.
[03:46]
B
So, I mean, I think the first misconception I hear literally almost every day is that it's not legal that a therapist license first restricts them from being able to go abroad or their malpractice insurance won't cover them. Um, those are, like, I think the two biggest legal misconceptions I hear. And what I love to tell therapists, I love to debunk that misconception because, actually, I feel like it was when Covid happened. So many therapists were told like, okay, your clients have to be inside the state. You're licensed. And I think so many of us just assumed that also meant that we had to be inside the state. We're licensed. But actually, your state licensing board really only cares about where your client is, because that's what, like, the purpose of the state licensing board is to help protect the client. There are some state licensing boards that, theoretically, I've never come across one. But theoretically, some people have said that their state licensing board restricts their location. But from all the ones I've looked up and looked into, all of them just restrict where the client is. And so that's one that I love to debunk because I think so many people go into grad school and are, like, fear mongered. And so when they get out of grad school and get their license, they're like, oh, my God, I don't want to lose this piece of paper. And this is one of the things I feel like they get so afraid of. But it's not like your licensing board doesn't own you. They don't get to restrict necessarily where your location is, so.
[05:30]
A
Right. Well, it's interesting with so many therapists that are licensed in so many different states, you know, like psypact, like, how. How does that work if you have to be in the state, you know.
[05:42]
B
Yes. That is one thing I will say. Psypact is one of the only things I've heard that actually restricts your location, which is insane. I do not understand it. But as a psychologist for sidepact, I can't use it because you have to be inside your state of licensure, like your home state, essentially, your life. Like, your state's license might not restrict you, but psypact does, which I think is ridiculous. But that is the. That is the one caveat.
[06:11]
A
So that's interesting. Okay, so let's say I was a psychologist in North Carolina and I had psypact. I can be seeing clients in all these other states as long as my body is in North Carolina.
[06:21]
B
Yes, exactly. But if you're just seeing clients in North Carolina, It's. I'm probably 99% sure North Carolina does not care where you are.
[06:29]
A
Yeah, okay.
[06:30]
B
They only care as long as your clients are there. And so if you're a psychologist, sadly, you can't use the wonderful thing, which is I pact if you want to travel abroad. But I feel like a lot of therapists think that they have to get licensed in multiple states to have a profitable practice. But I don't think that's true. Like, I think you're fine with just one, but I think so many of them get licensed in, like, five different states. And I'm like, you do not have to do that.
[06:54]
A
And I would say it actually slows things down in terms of, like, building and marketing your practice, because you're like, in this situation where now you have to market in multiple places, which takes a lot more time and energy.
[07:08]
B
So much like, you're putting. You're spreading your eggs in too many different baskets, and you're having to pay all of those fees in terms of licensing, getting licensed again, or renewing, it's too much. I'm licensed in three states, and I'm like, I don't like it. I don't know why I did this.
[07:26]
A
Yeah, it's a license.
[07:27]
B
I want to go back to just one.
[07:28]
A
Yeah, yeah. And you can.
[07:31]
B
Yes. And then the other Thing is, like, a lot of people think malpractice insurance, like, doesn't cover you, but there are some malpractice insurances that won't cover you if you're physically located abroad. But there are three that I. That I personally know of, which is the Trust, American Professional Agency and cph. As long as the file is claimed in the United States, so it's with your United States clients and you're following the rules and regulations of your state board, they will cover you as long, like, if you're physically located abroad at the time of service. So that's another one people get really afraid of. But it's not. That's usually not a problem at all. Like, if your malpractice insurance has an issue, you can just switch. But that's another one that I feel like they often are like, no, my malpractice insurance doesn't let me. And I'm like, no, just switch.
[08:24]
A
Right, right.
[08:25]
B
Yeah.
[08:26]
A
And I think this also speaks to. And probably the other misconceptions we talk about are going to. This speaks to resistance.
[08:33]
B
Yes.
[08:33]
A
If therapists are talking to you about this, they want to be doing it, but they're hitting up against their own fear. That has nothing to do with things that they just need to do to be able to do what they want to do. And we all have these blocks, but, yeah, they're just throwing blocks in front of themselves that don't even need to exist.
[08:51]
B
Yes, I think that's very true. And I think, like, it's interesting because some malpractice insurances, for example, don't allow you. But I think oftentimes they're like, oh, one won't allow me. And so that means that it's like, none will allow me. Like, it's not even a thing that's possible. And so, yeah, I think I feel like people come up to one roadblock and then think it's not like, it's just like, oh, I have to throw this out the window now. But that's not true. I think if you hit a roadblock, there's definitely other ways around it. You just have to kind of get creative. But I think that's probably very true for a lot of things when it comes to business and private practice. And I'm sure you see it every day as well, helping therapists build practices.
[09:33]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And we need to be willing to do our own research and, like, get scrappy sometimes instead of just being like, yes, the first malpractice insurance I ever signed up for doesn't allow this. So I guess I don't get to do it.
[09:48]
B
Yeah, yeah. I like to say if there's a will, There's a way.
[09:51]
A
100%. 100%.
[09:53]
B
Even if I'm like, if you're, if you're, you know, your licensing board doesn't allow it. If you're that unicorn licensing board, which I'm still determined to find them because people say they're there and I'm like, where? But if you do, like, you can get licensed in another state. There's plenty of other states that allow it. Like, obviously you might have to start over with marketing and things, but if you want to go abroad and that's your dream, I mean, there's a way.
[10:17]
A
Right. And it takes work. I think that's another thing that, like, in this environment with the platforms and insurance being evil and all sorts of things. Yes, it makes sense. It just makes sense too. If you want to build the thing you want to build, it's going to take work. It's not going to be.
[10:36]
B
Yes.
[10:37]
A
So I would love for therapists to start to really embrace this. Was there a time when it was easy?
[10:41]
B
Yes, there was a time.
[10:42]
A
And I'm sorry it's not 2021. I would love it to be 2021 from a marketing perspective for all of us. And if you want this, work for it. No big deal. You've worked for things in the past.
[10:55]
B
Yeah. Yes, exactly. I mean, you have a whole master's in a license.
[10:59]
A
Yeah.
[10:59]
B
You worked really hard. Yeah. But I also think it's a hard. I. This is something I see too. It's like when it comes to marketing, people just want it to be easy. And I'm like, you know, sorry. Like, I wish it, I wish it was true. I wish it was easy.
[11:13]
A
But yeah, I'm excited for easy all day.
[11:15]
B
Building something good takes work, you know. Totally. But that is the, the next myth I have is it's not profitable to have a virtual private practice. Like, I think a lot of people nowadays, like, oh, you know, people want in person or like, I feel like there's like this thing going around where it's like, oh, well, you know, to be competitive as a therapist in private practice nowadays, you need to have an in person office. And, you know, so I think there's a lot of misconceptions that you can't have a virtual practice anymore now, like post Covid. But I definitely think this is a myth because I have a profitable virtual practice and I know plenty of other people that do as well.
[11:56]
A
Yes. I mean, the majority of therapists I work with have virtual practices, right? Yeah, the platforms are all virtual. Like, I mean, yeah, literally.
[12:07]
B
Well, and I think, you know, as someone who's been coaching therapists in this, I often ask, I'm like, okay, well, like, how are you marketing to virtual people now? And they're like, oh, well, I'm not, I'm like either working for a practice that, you know, like has them be in person or they have in person on their website. And I'm like, well, well, if you're talking to people who, like, if you're speaking to in person, people are going to want in person or going to ask for that. But if you clearly state on your website or you even try to position virtual as a benefit, which there are like, obviously I can understand some people think in person has its benefits, which it does. But if you're speaking to in person, then in person people are going to seek you out. And if you're speaking to virtual, virtual people are going to seek you out. But then also I think to your point earlier, I do think there, because of COVID there are a lot of stories that circulate about virtual therapy that, you know, a therapist lets their family walk in their room or like the therapist is in the kitchen. And, you know, I think there are some, like, horror stories, especially because of better help and all of these platforms that don't pay the therapist well, you know, and so therapists are, you know, maybe not able to provide the best quality care or there's just bad therapists out there too. That I do think that there is a little bit more legwork you might have to do to show trust to the client. And so that's what I also like to tell people. If they want to build a virtual practice that, you know, they do need to care about marketing and they have to put effort into marketing. Like, you want to build that trust with whoever is landing on your website. Because if you're just being compared to another therapist who also has general marketing, but they offer in person, that person might be like, oh, it'll be like it. You know, they might want to trust that person more or whatever. But I like to, like, I feel like this is a myth that it is possible to build a profitable practice that's virtual, but you do have to do some legwork. But I think that's true for in person people as well. Like you're saying, I don't. I think the days where people are banging down your door to get into therapy isn't true anymore. I think there's, you know, the field is. There's just a lot more competition. But I feel like it's easy to be competitive because you just need to invest in your website and the words on your website. And you could be like a leg up from probably 90% of therapists.
[14:35]
A
Right. I think that that's an interesting thing that people are like. I mean, you do need to help people find your website. Like, there are things you need to do if you're not established.
[14:43]
B
Yes.
[14:44]
A
Like, that's more of an uphill battle than it once was. But having a website that really speaks to your ideal client is like night and day gonna make a difference.
[14:54]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Like the therapist I coach and I help them niche down. And I hear so many times, oh, I updated my website or my Psychology Today with my niche and someone that I'm speaking to reached out and I'm like, it worked.
[15:07]
A
Yeah.
[15:08]
B
I'm telling you.
[15:10]
A
Yeah.
[15:10]
B
It's so. It's like they're so surprised.
[15:13]
A
Yeah.
[15:14]
B
Yeah. I feel like you have to do certain things, but it is completely possible.
[15:19]
A
Yeah.
[15:20]
B
The next myth that I have is that it's too expensive. I think a lot of therapists, when they think about going abroad or taking their private practice abroad, are feel like they have to have a ton of money saved up. Like, they get really scared about, you know, needing like a huge cushion. Like, I. There was a therapist who I first spoke to years ago and I reached out to her recently and she's still like, I still don't have enough money saved. And I'm like that. To me, I'm like, okay, that is fear. That is, you know, a mindset thing. Because actually living abroad is ex. Like it is. I think it's so wild how inexpensive it is compared to the United States,
[16:05]
A
depending on where you are.
[16:06]
B
Right.
[16:06]
A
Like if you're going to London or Paris, maybe not.
[16:08]
B
Yes, but. Yes, yes. But even, you know, even then I think groceries are cheaper in those. Like, you know, there's. I think there are things like you go to Paris and you probably can walk. You're not having to pay insurance and a car payment, you know, So I think there are a lot of ways in which, you know, rent might be comparable, but there's a lot of living expenses. Health insurance is a, you know, much more affordable. So there's just a lot of things about day to day life in America that are just so much more reasonable in another country. But I think the misconception people, a lot of people tend to have is it's like, okay, you're going on a two week vacation. Like for some people who have only been abroad for vacations might assume like, oh, it's really expensive because, you know, when you go on a two week vacation, you're spending so much more money. But when you're, you know, spending a month or two in a place, it's so much more affordable. And so that's when I like to tell people, because I think they just assume it's so expensive and that they have to have this like huge savings to do it. Which I mean, I will say, like, if you're wanting to immigrate to another country or get a visa, like a longer term visa, that country will probably have some financial barrier or sometime requirement for you to be able to have a longer term visa. But I feel like that's a lot less different than assuming that it's just going to be really expensive. But like I lived abroad for like two years and I had a emergency fund, but I didn't touch that emergency fund until I went on maternity leave for my daughter. And that was the only reason I did it was because it was a maternity leave. But so I think a lot of people think that it, it's really expensive. It's really wild how it's not expensive.
[18:07]
A
Yeah. I remember when we were talking last time, was it Thailand?
[18:12]
B
I was, I think the first it was I was in Morocco and then the next time I was in Thailand. That's right, that's right.
[18:18]
A
Yeah. And so just thinking about how you were giving some details on like what it costs to live and it's like, oh, like if you have an established practice already and you want to do this, holy damn, like, oh, your money is going to go so much farther
[18:33]
B
in so many places, so much further. It's so insane. Well, I mean, I guess since the last time we talked, I can even speak to. I think, you know, one thing, people also are like, oh, well, what about medical stuff? It's so expensive. But I didn't have health insurance when I was living abroad. Like I would just out of pocket, which it was like, you know, I had to go to the urgent care and it was like, what, $20 in Bali, you know where it's like in the states, that's like $150. Yeah, but I didn't have health insurance. I had a travel insurance that included like emergency health care, like if something were to happen. But that was like $50 a month. But I even gave birth to my daughter in Thailand. And that was I ended up having to have a C section. So I ended up paying the most that I would have had to pay because I had to pay for a natural birth and a C section. The way their hospital works. And I only spent it was less than $6,000, which is like some people pay that with health insurance.
[19:35]
A
Right.
[19:35]
B
And that's like probably what you're paying for premiums, right?
[19:40]
A
Yeah. You still wouldn't have met my deductible at 6,000.
[19:43]
B
Right, exactly. And especially, as you know, that's, you know, even speaking to people who have employ who pay their health insurance as therapists, I think it's so expensive to have health insurance because you're having to pay completely out of pocket and it can be really expensive. But living abroad, I save so much money on health insurance and I feel like I get so much better quality care. I could have paid significantly less if I was at a different hospital. But the hospital I was at was like the top notch, you know, like five star hotel hospital, you know.
[20:22]
A
Yeah.
[20:22]
B
And it was still cheaper than what people pay to have crappy quality care in the United States. And so, you know, that's like another thing is like people are afraid of like, well, what if an emergency happens? And I'm like, I promise you the emergency is going to cost significantly less than if you were in the States.
[20:38]
A
Yeah. What are some other misconceptions?
[20:42]
B
Okay, so another misconception is time zones make it too complicated. Which this one, you know, I love to talk about this one too.
[20:54]
A
Yes.
[20:55]
B
Time zones can be something you have to navigate. And there are a couple of things that I feel like you have to do to set yourself up. Well, but in general, I think time zones aren't, you know, as terrible as some people might assume. But I think oftentimes when people are like, oh, but like time zones, they think like, oh, well, that's not changing, changing their schedule with their clients.
[21:22]
A
Right.
[21:23]
B
Like their people are afraid to change their schedule. Like there was a student I was working with and she in my accelerator that I ran who was like, oh, well, like my clients, I see them in the evenings and if I want to go to Turkey because she really wanted to go to Turkey. Like I would be working in the middle of the night and I'm like, oh, well, like could you just move them to the morning time? You know? And she was like, oh, like almost like too afraid to do that. But I think oftentimes, like people are like, oh, well, I have to run my US practice exactly the same Like, I can't change anything. Like, I have to keep my clients in the evenings. That's the only time they'll ever be able to see me. And so if I try to go to somewhere like Europe, then I'm gonna be working until 2am, which I just don't like. I'm like, I think people are a lot more flexible. Like, your clients are going to be a lot more flexible than you're assuming. Like. And I was something I fell into because I like my kind of lore as I kind of impulsively moved to Morocco. Like, I was already virtual. Then I kind of impulsively moved to Morocco, and I was seeing people until 2am and I was seeing them from like 5pm to like 1am or 2am, depending on the time zone. Like the States. In the States, the. The States, does the time change, But a lot of other countries do not do the time change anyway, so I was seeing people until 2am but then when I got pregnant, I was like, I can't do this anymore. I have to change them. And I did, and people were fine. And now I change things. Like, I change my schedule every so often whenever I change locations. And most clients are understanding of it. Like, I obviously have to hold space for if they have feelings, because some people do have feelings. And, you know, that's okay. That doesn't mean you shouldn't change your time. But, you know, I feel like as therapists, it's so easy for us to like, get so anxious about not upsetting our clients and having our clients, you know, putting ourselves in difficult position for our clients, which it's like, I understand to some degree, like, we are a business. Like we are assert. Like we are providing a service. And so we need to be very mindful of our clients. Clients. But like, this idea that, you know, you can never see clients in the morning or you can, you only have to have clients in the evenings because that's the best time for your clients. I think it's such a misconception. I think clients are. Unless you have a. Like, you know, you see surgeons, you know, see teachers.
[24:07]
A
Yeah, teachers are the first.
[24:08]
B
But even then, I've had a teacher and she would see me during her office hour. Like her, you know, her planning period or something. Like, you know, so I just, like, I think therapists, like, we get so rigid in our heads about how something has to work, but there's so much flexibility.
[24:24]
A
Yeah.
[24:25]
B
You know, like, it's just, you know, I think that. Yeah. So that's just like one of the misconceptions is that, you know, that you have to run it exactly how it's in the United States and the time zone makes it too complicated. But I also think too, the other thing about time zones is that a lot of people are having to see 25 or even 20, 25, 30 plus clients because it's so expensive in the United States. And if you have an in person office, then it's even more expensive and you just have to see a certain amount of clients to live a certain lifestyle. But when you're living in other countries or you kind of live abroad, fuller time. I've seen 13 to 15 clients a week, you know, like three client, three to four clients a day and have him living high on the hog, you know. Yeah, like I'm living well, that's like, you know, I charge like 200 plus dollars an hour. So that is, you know, what, 9 to 11 thousand dollars a month. But like when my overhead for my business and my living expenses is like $3,000, wow. There's so much wiggle room. I could probably even see less people. But that I think is another thing when it comes to time zones. It's like, okay, yeah, you're thinking like, oh, I, how am I going to fit 30 clients? And when I'm living in Europe? But it's like, well, you're going to be living in Europe and you can probably find a place that you can live where your living expenses are very, make you very comfortable seeing 10 to 15 clients a week. But I think it's just like one of those things where like I said, I think we get so stuck on one idea, it's hard to imagine something different. And I think that's just like one of the things. It's like, yeah, I only have to see 13 clients a week, which is like wonderful. You know, I feel like so many of us want to see that many a week. Like any more than that is really draining.
[26:25]
A
That takes some of the pressure off of marketing too because you don't have to bring in as many people.
[26:31]
B
Yes, exactly. I think that is like very true. And a lot of us, like, I feel like a lot of therapists don't like think that they're like, oh, like oh, I have to, you know, when it comes to marketing, like I have to generate so many leads. But like once you build a practice, like and you provide quality care, you know, you are probably, you probably don't need more than a couple a month if that.
[26:54]
A
Right, right.
[26:56]
B
Once you have a stable long term caseload you know, my books have been closed for a while. I haven't had to take anyone new on, you know.
[27:06]
A
Yeah.
[27:06]
B
But it's just the building part. But after that, it's like, it's really a dream. Private practice is a wonderful.
[27:12]
A
It is, it is.
[27:14]
B
Yeah.
[27:14]
A
When it's rolling in the early stages, it does suck. People validate that it sucks for the early stages.
[27:21]
B
It takes work. It's temporary suckage.
[27:24]
A
Yes.
[27:25]
B
I know me, like, I me, I started my practice in 2021. End of 2021. Beginning of 2022. And it was a lot of work, but I'm like, look at me now. I'm like, I have so much freedom and I'm living well. And I just like, I can't believe there's some therapists who, you know, my heart hurts for them where they're seeing insurance clients and working 30 plus hours. I'm like, how are you living? How are you alive? Yeah, yeah, it's hard. It is, but it's like, you know, choosing your heart, you know, And I think that's.
[28:02]
A
That's a conversation I've been having with
[28:03]
B
people a lot lately.
[28:04]
A
Right. It's like, Yeah, I find that there's just like, it's going to be hard no matter what. Like you said. Which hard do you want? Do you want the yes I'm having to market and this puts me out there in a way I'm not comfortable with. Or do you want to be broke or do you want to work broke
[28:24]
B
and like, emotionally deaf? Yeah. Because you're, like, depleted.
[28:28]
A
Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So amazing. Thank you so much for your time. We're going to make sure that people can get in touch with you. We're going to put your info in the show notes and. Yeah. And then you're doing a training for the Abundance party. Yes.
[28:47]
B
In August. I'm so excited.
[28:49]
A
So we'll have an opportunity for people to ask you lots of questions, hopefully, and for you to dive deeper. So for those of you listening who are not yet in the Abundance party, come and join us. And I look forward to learning more and fantasizing more. Just not in the place in my life where I can do this. But I keep having. I keep ending up watching shows that I don't know are set in Tuscany, reading books that I don't know we're going to be set in Tuscany. Like, it keeps showing up.
[29:15]
B
And I'm like, I get it, I get it.
[29:17]
A
I'm supposed to be somewhere with an olive grove.
[29:24]
B
The universe is speaking to you. It's like saying, come. Come to the beauty of Italy. Yes, yes, yes. I love it. Amazing. Well, I will talk with you soon. Yes. Okay.
[29:35]
A
See you later. Bye.
[29:37]
B
Bye.
[29:39]
A
If you're ready for a much easier practice, Therapy Notes is the way to go. Go to therapynotes.com and use the promo code abundant for two months. Free. If you're listening, you probably need some support building your. If you're a super newbie, grab our free checklist using the link in the show Notes. I'd love for you to follow rate and review, but I really want you to share this episode with a therapist friend. Let's help all our colleagues build what they want.