Episode 61: Ned’s Atomic Dustbin’s “God Fodder” (1991)

Summary

Accelerated Culture Podcast: Episode 61 Summary Title: Ned’s Atomic Dustbin’s “God Fodder” (1991) Release Date: March 1, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 61 of the Accelerated Culture podcast, hosts Lori and Scott Free delve deep into Ned's Atomic Dustbin's seminal 1991 album, Godfather. Celebrating its place within the Grebo scene of the early '90s, the episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the band's music, lyrical themes, and legacy within the alternative music landscape.

Band Origins and Name Origin

The episode begins with Lori and Scott exploring the origin of Ned's Atomic Dustbin—a name inspired by a 1950s BBC radio show episode from The Goon Show. Despite the band's members being too young to remember the show, they adopted the quirky name, unaware of its humorous underpinnings. Scott humorously notes the irony of the band's acronym, "ned," referencing the well-known stereo company.

The Grebo Scene

Scott provides context on the Grebo movement, emphasizing its roots in Stourbridge, a working-class town known for its glass factories near Birmingham, England. Godfather stands as a testament to this subculture, alongside other contemporaries like Pop Will Eat Itself and The Wonder Stuff. Lori highlights the visual aesthetics of the Grebo fans—long hair, baggy shorts, and dreadlocks—as emblematic of the scene's ethos.

Album Overview: Godfather

Godfather was Ned's Atomic Dustbin’s debut major label album, released in the UK on April 1, 1991, and later in the US on July 2, 1991, under Columbia Records. The album boasts over 400,000 sales in the United States alone and has been recognized as a significant yet often overlooked piece of music history.

Scott mentions a Pitchfork Media article ranking Godfather as the 10th most commonly sold CD in used record stores, reflecting its enduring, albeit niche, appeal. Lori adds a poignant quote from the article:

“If only John Penny were as dead sexy as Jesus Jones’ Mike Edwards, Neds might have had a shot.” (25:20)

Musical Composition and Lyrical Themes

The hosts discuss the album's relentless energy, characterized by dual bass lines, frenetic drum work, and high-tempo rhythms. Scott describes John Penny's unique vocal style as smooth yet energetic, contrasting with the more aggressive vocals typical of punk-influenced bands. Lori and Scott explore the album's consistent theme of interpersonal conflict, often centered around tumultuous relationships and generational tensions.

Significant emphasis is placed on the innovative use of two bass players, Alex Griffin and Matt Cheslin, who weave melodic and rhythmic bass lines to create a dense, layered sound. Lori quotes:

“Dan the fast drumming man,” referring to drummer Dan Wharton’s relentless pace. (22:01)

Track-by-Track Analysis

1. Kill Your Television

   • Summary: An aggressive opener critiquing media influence with high BPM (143).
   • Notable Quote:

     “Dragons have their dragon blood, what else do you have for your cat.” (29:15)

2. Less Than Useful

   • Summary: Explores themes of self-doubt and relationship strain with dynamic tempo shifts from 144 BPM to 154 BPM.
   • Notable Insight: Scott muses on its potential as an early pop-punk anthem.

3. Selfish

   • Summary: Incorporates a sample from Die Hard, reflecting Gen X’s rebellious spirit.
   • Quote:

     “Be careful, you might hear something you don't want to hear.” (43:32)

4. Gracel Green

   • Summary: An environmental anthem with ambiguous lyrics leading listeners to interpret its message.
   • Commentary: Scott initially misinterprets the song’s intent until John Penny clarifies its environmental focus.

5. Cut Up

   • Summary: Features complex rhythms and triplet time signatures, emphasizing personal relationship conflicts.
   • Quote:

     “We're tired of the same things. It's like getting locked out when the phone rings.” (88:36)

6. Throwing Things

   • Summary: Reflects on communication breakdowns in relationships with high-energy instrumentation.
   • Discussion: Lori relates to the lyrics about losing the art of conversation.

7. Capital Letters

   • Summary: Addresses emotional turmoil and responsibility within relationships.
   • Notable Lines:

     “When she looks at me in that tone of voice, you can read her thoughts in capital letters.” (68:19)

8. Your Complex

   • Summary: Continues themes of emotional and relational conflicts with intricate musical arrangements.
   • Quote:

     “Don't go telling me it's gone wrong.” (76:38)

9. Nothing Like

   • Summary: Concludes the album with a father-son conflict narrative, featuring a sample from the movie Purple Haze.
   • Reflection: Scott draws parallels between the lyrics and personal experiences of generational gaps.

Reception and Legacy

Despite its commercial success, Godfather remains a cult classic, celebrated for its high energy and innovative musical composition. The album's aggressive marketing, including 86 unique band T-shirts, contributed to its initial popularity. However, its complex rhythms and dual bass lines may have limited its mainstream appeal, leading to its high ranking in used record store sales rather than ongoing commercial dominance.

Scott and Lori lament that Godfather didn’t achieve greater mainstream success, partly attributing it to critical remarks about John Penny's stage presence compared to contemporaries like Mike Edwards of Jesus Jones.

Post-Album Career and Reunion

Following Godfather, Ned's Atomic Dustbin released two more albums—Are You Normal? (1992) and Brain Blood Volume (1995)—each experimenting with different sounds but experiencing diminishing commercial success. The band eventually disbanded but reunited occasionally for performances. John Penny and Dan Wharton later collaborated on the project Spares, releasing an album in 2022.

John Penny expressed pessimism about Ned's Atomic Dustbin releasing new material, citing time constraints and the challenges of reconciling the original band dynamic. However, he remains open to future collaborations, leaving the door slightly ajar for potential new music.

Conclusion

Godfather by Ned's Atomic Dustbin stands as a vibrant snapshot of the early '90s alternative scene, particularly within the Grebo movement. Scott and Lori's in-depth analysis highlights the album’s complex musicality and evocative, albeit sometimes vague, lyrical content. Despite its enduring presence in used record collections, Godfather remains a testament to a unique time in music history, capturing the relentless energy and innovative spirit of its creators.

“This album is a product of its time. To some people's mind, it probably sounds dated, but as a time capsule of 1991 and capturing one little sliver of the subculture, it is about as strong as they come.” (100:21)

Notable Quotes:

• “If only John Penny were as dead sexy as Jesus Jones’ Mike Edwards, Neds might have had a shot.” – (25:20)
• “We love Stourbridge. We loved drinking there. We loved the friends we made there. But your ambition says to get out.” – (13:22)
• “When people tell me what one of our songs means, I say, yep, you're right. I'm not going to dash their dreams.” – (16:34)

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For more insights into alternative music history and overlooked gems like Ned's Atomic Dustbin, visit AcceleratedCulturePodcast.com.

Transcript

[Lori]

Foreign welcome to the Accelerated Culture podcast. A sonic journey through the vibrant and revolutionary sounds of the 1980s and 1990s. And now 2024 Webby Honoree for best Indie Podcast. I'm Lori, along with my co host, Scott Free. And in this podcast we explore how new waves stormed the airwaves in the early 80s and and gave way for the rise of alternative music in the 90s. Find us on the [e-mail] hello. Hello. Welcome to another episode of the Accelerated Culture podcast.

[Scott Free]

This is Lori and this is Scott Free.

[Lori]

And Scott, I am so excited, not only about this episode, which I'm super excited about.

[Scott Free]

I know you are. You've been wanting to do this episode for a long time. Pretty much the entirety that we've been on. 1991.

[Lori]

Yes, pretty much, yes.

[Scott Free]

So what else are you excited about, Laurie? He asked knowingly.

[Lori]

Well, as I texted you, this weekend, this last Saturday, we finally hit 200,000 downloads.

[Scott Free]

Whoa. Yeah, that is madness. Just, I don't know. Four months ago, we were very excited to have hit 30,000 downloads.

[Lori]

11 weeks ago, 11 weeks to the day, December 7th, we hit 100,000.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

So in 11 weeks we've doubled it bananas. Right?

[Scott Free]

Thank you all for listening and unless it's just one of you and you have listened 200,000 times, in which case, thank you, weirdo.

[Lori]

So thanks to everybody for helping us get the word out and for supporting Accelerated Culture. We love you.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, thanks so much for listening.

[Lori]

So, Scott, what have you been up to?

[Scott Free]

You know, this is usually the point in the show where we talk about shows we have seen and things we have done, but we are also now in the dead of winter and I have not been going out to a lot of shows in the last couple weeks. But while I was walking my dog Gomez through the streets of Andersonville in Chicago, passing a record store that I often pass with him, saw in the window a book, a book that we have actually talked about in a previous episode called the Listening Party. You loyal listeners may remember the Listening Party being the podcast that Tim Burgess of the Charlatans started during the pandemic times during lockdown where he got sometimes guest hosts and listen to an album and talk about that album. This book, the Listening Party, is the companion book to it. And I am very much looking forward to settling in for a good portion of the rest of the winter and reading about more music. Because you and I don't think about music enough, do we?

[Lori]

No, of course not. Well, that's cool. That's a really good purchase. Way to go. And if you're curious, that episode on the Charlatans was episode 41, and it's.

[Scott Free]

A really good one. The Charlatans Some Friendly is an amazing album. That was one of my picks and I stand by it. Go back, listen to previous episodes, but strap in and get ready to this one, because this is one Lori picked and it is exciting.

[Lori]

One of my absolute favorite bands, not just of the 90s, but all time.

[Scott Free]

Wow.

[Lori]

Is. Yeah, Ned's Atomic Dust bin. And in 1991, their debut major label album was called God Fodder. F O D D E R. So it's a little bit of a pun there. Oh, what, you just now caught it?

[Scott Free]

No. All right. I remember vividly seeing Ned's Atomic Dustbin for the first time on MTV's 120 Minutes. They made quite a splash with a couple of videos, and both of those videos are from this album, Godfather. We'll be talking about those songs in great detail, as is our way in the deep dive. But one thing that always struck me about this band is what an odd name. I mean, obviously Dustbin is, you know, English for trash can, but Ned's Atomic Dustbin, just one of those band names that you're like, how did they come up with that? And in doing the research for this episode, I found out, and I did not see that coming.

[Lori]

Right.

[Scott Free]

In the 1950s in England, there was a BBC radio show called the Goon show, which starred, among others, one young Peter Sellers, who our Gen X folks may remember from the Pink Panther movies. And of course, that one unbelievably crazy episode of the Muppet Show. If you don't remember the Peter Sellers Muppet show episode, watch it. It's bananas. That guy was crazy. But an episode of the Goon show was actually entitled Ned's Atomic Dustbin. What about his plans of a new anti Atomic Dustbin? Yes, you see, in the event of radiation, this dustbin will keep your garbage atom free.

[Lori]

What rubbish.

[Scott Free]

Indeed. And that is where the group came up with it. Although they, by their own telling of it, were too young to actually remember the show. It just came up at some point and they're like, that's a good band name.

[Lori]

And there they are, except for the unfortunate acronym.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, you're of course referring to nad, the stereo company.

[Lori]

So, Scott, since you have been on board as my co host for just over a year. Yes, I have been talking about doing an episode on Grebo, and I think this is going to be the de facto Grebo episode.

[Scott Free]

So for you listeners who may not be down with this particular scene, Grebo spelled G R E B O. And yeah, it's a whole thing. Laurie, what is Grebo?

[Lori]

Grebo wasn't so much a particular sound as a locale. So there's a town called Stourbridge that's just west of Birmingham in England. Stourbridge was a very working class town, very much known for glass. Glass factories, glass workers, and like, for. For a hot minute in like 90, 91, this was like the center of the music universe.

[Scott Free]

Ned's Atomic Dustbin is not a band that really gets played much anywhere. And that's partly a result of what was going on in music at the time. And you can see a microcosm of that in this podcast. If you look at our 1991 episodes, there's been a lot of Shoe Gaze, there's been a lot of Manchester, and there's been a lot of grunge. And those were the scenes, particularly Manchester in England and grunge in the States, that were dominating alternative radio, Right? And then there was this little pocket in England of this one other scene, the Grebo scene, coming out of Stourbridge. And Ned's Atomic Dustbin was really the third of the big bands to come out of that. And I say big, I'm making air quotes, because most people have not really heard of one of them and barely remember the other. I had not listened to Godfather in a long time. And, man, Ned's Atomic Dustbin sounds like pop will eat Itself. If they had never discovered samplers and hip hop and then listening more to the album, like, you know what, they also sound a lot like the Wonder Stuff. If the Wonder Stuff hadn't gone from a sneering hard, energetic rock band and gone soft and went popular with their album Never loved Elvis, another 1991 album. In doing research for this album, I find out, first of all, had no idea that both Pop Will Eat Itself and the Wonder Stuff had members in common from a previous band that they both came out of and had no idea that Pop Will Eat Itself. The Wonder Stuff and Ned's Atomic Dustbin all came from the same town at the same time. The Grebo scene in Stourbridge. Yeah, Grebo, by the way, is not just the label for this musical sub genre. It was actually local slang in Starbridge for the sort of ruffian biker rock guys. And so the scene got named after the type Papa Lead itself became, to my mind, like the quintessential Grebo band, but Mesotonic Dust Bin. Every bit as big as them and maybe bigger. I don't know Popol itself ever really hit. I just freaking loved them so much. I got here just a little bit late to do an episode on the Pop Will Eat Itself Cure for Sanity, which is an amazing album. Anyway, all this is simply to say Grebo, a genre worth exploring. And we will start to get into it today as we get into the Neds, as their fans call them.

[Lori]

Yes. I did not know that there was kind of an offshoot of Grebo that became known as Fraggle. Like. Like Fraggle Rock. I get it, yeah. And Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine. You remember them?

[Scott Free]

Of course. I actually saw Carter USM open for EMF in Ann Arbor in that show that I talked about in episode 51.

[Lori]

Ah, yeah. So Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine is considered Fraggle, which is an offshoot of Grebo. Now you mentioned emf. EMF and Jesus Jones tend to be lumped in with Grebo, but they're not from Stourbridge. But the sound tends to get lumped in with the Grebo indie kind of label.

[Scott Free]

So yeah, there's so many of these micro genres too, between Grebo and Fraggle and Baggy and Crust was another one, actually. Oh, yeah, the Crust references Crust in one of his songs. And so anyways, and there's a lot.

[Lori]

Of overlap and particularly the Grebo fans, they tended to do, you know, long hair, baggy shorts, dreads, very frequently.

[Scott Free]

Speaking of the crusts, braids and knit caps and.

[Lori]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Scott Free]

So why Stourbridge? John Penny talks about how there is an arts college there and. And I'm quoting here, there were pubs in the town that were safe havens for weirdos, goths, freaks. And those pubs became an incubator. Pop Will Eat Itself got signed. John Peele recorded them. And then as he talks about, I love this quote, the great irony about the whole Stourbridge scene and really strictly a lot of scenes, because it's such a small town, it's quite funny. The irony is that really a scene is made by people who are desperate to get out. We love Stourbridge. We loved drinking there. We loved the friends we made there. But your ambition says to get out. So he talks about how he would be drinking at the bar and he would spill his drink and it would be on the lead singer of Pop Will Eat Itself and that they weren't dicks about it. They had gotten Signed and they were getting famous, but he was still just a guy in the pub who you could have a drink with. You spill your drink on him, he's like, ah, it's fine, let's talk. And they did. And because they were young guys drinking together in a bar and then decided to start a band that's a simplified.

[Lori]

Version of it, I was very surprised to learn that they originally formed as a goth band.

[Scott Free]

Yep.

[Lori]

Love to hear some of that.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I've never seen it.

[Lori]

Yeah, I can't even imagine. So in 1990, Ned's atomic dustbin signed with an indie label in Birmingham called Chapter 22 Records. And they put out an EP called the Ingredients EP and then they put out a single, Kill your Television. And on the strength of not only that single single, but also the Neds were doing viral marketing before viral marketing was a thing. So 1990, the Internet hadn't formed yet because the World Wide web started in 1991, but over a period of three years, they designed 86 different Band T shirts.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I don't know if we mentioned that they actually formed in 1987. So the three years where those band T shirts were happening happened really early in the game. They were doing more T shirts than they were doing music. And, you know, part of the strength of those T shirts was the sloganeering. That was part of it. Of course, by now we remember Kill your Television. Others. I did some, did some Google image searching and found some pretty good ones. Are you Normal was a good one, one that I love. On the front it says, did you miss Ned's Atomic dust Bin? So did you miss. And then their logo. And on the back in huge, all caps, San Serif, bold as hell type. Then you up and then, yeah, not around was another one. Now, let's, you know, not afraid of the coarser language, but sloganeering with big, bold type on T shirts. And, you know, they were a bit of a marketing machine as much as they were a band.

[Lori]

Yeah. So Are youe Normal? Was the name of their second album in 1992. I wonder, did the T shirt predate the album or was the T shirt to promote that album?

[Scott Free]

I can't say on that. I'm not saying they came first, I'm just saying. Yeah, marker.

[Lori]

Yeah. Between the marketing with the T shirts, the strength of the single, Kill youl Television, which reached the top 50 in the UK, so they got signed to Sony Music in the UK, their imprint, Furtive Records, and in the United States, they were on Columbia, which was another Sony label.

[Scott Free]

When The Neds got signed to Sony. They did it on the condition that they released the music under their own imprint, Furtive Records, so that they would get greater creative control. So essentially they got tight control over their music, but then got the marketing and distribution juggernaut of Sony behind them. And that served them pretty well, at least for the first album.

[Lori]

Yes. When Sony signed them, they went into Greenhouse Studios in London in December of 1990 and January of 1991 to record this album. They co produced it with Jessica Corcoran. The lineup of Ned's Atomic Dustbin, at least in 1990 and 1991, was John Penny, the lead vocalist. He has a very unusual distinctive voice, much like Mike Edwards. Mike Edwards from Jesus Jones. Another one that just has really an unusual distinctive voice for a band that.

[Scott Free]

Has such high energy. Like this band is crushing it at all times. He's got like a kind of smooth almost croon at times. It's like really unusual for a band that borders on a punk feel. Right.

[Lori]

Yes. And you know, and he doesn't have a British accent when he sings. I mean I would not have known this was a British band. He doesn't. He's. He sounds like he could be from the American Midwest to me.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. But yeah, he. Then that voice, he lacks the sneer that you get in say the wonder stuff in their early albums or Popolite itself.

[Lori]

Right, yes, yes. So then we have Gareth Rat Pring on guitars and to a lesser extent keyboards.

[Scott Free]

Right.

[Lori]

Dan Wharton on drums, Alex Griffin on bass and also backing vocals. And then Matt Cheslin also on bass. One of the things I love about Neds, it's so unusual is that they have two bass players. I can't think of too many other bands that would have two bass players.

[Scott Free]

It is unusual to be sure. And especially so because the way they write their songs and the way they play their songs, they essentially have a lead bass player and a rhythm based player. One of the bases is essentially doing melody like a lead guitarist would and one is doing more traditional rhythmic bass. So you got Alex Griffin doing the melodic bass along with Rat on guitar. And then you have Matt. Matt Cheslin on rhythmic bass working with Dan Wharton, the drums to be the rhythm section. And it creates this really full, really busy, oftentimes fast and frenetic. But there's a lot going on with all this bas work. Yeah. And that rhythm section. Dan Wharton is the hardest working man in drum business, man. Like he is frenetic. He's practically playing drum and bass and he is just going at all times. I did read some interesting stuff about why two bass players, and the answer is funnier than you would expect. It's because the third bass player sucked at it and agreed to play drums instead.

[Lori]

Dan. Dan Wharton.

[Scott Free]

Dan Wharton, yes. So I got a lot of really good information from this episode from, of all places, a single interview that a local journalist at an ABC affiliate in Bakersfield, California, did in 2022. The guy's name is Pete Menting, and he interviewed John Penny, lead singer of Ned's Atomic Dustbin. And in that interview, he talks about why there are two bass players in Ned's Atomic Dustbin. And it's a long quote, but buckle up and get ready for the ride. It's. It's worth the long quote. The shortened version was I invited one to rehearse with me, explains Penny. I got a little bit drunk, and in the meantime, forgot that invitation. I went to a show, saw another bass player with an entirely different style of playing. Alex and his band was splitting up, and I said, whoa, you fancy having a jam together? Then the first Ned's rehearsal, there were two guys with bass guitars, and it was like, oh, sorry, guys. Dan, the drummer, came along and played drums just as a favor because he really wanted to play bass. So there were three bass players in the room, and Rat, the guitarist, came, and I'd only seen Rat play bass. I'd never seen him play guitar. And he started to learn to play guitar. So we had four bass players in the room at the first Ned's rehearsal. Luckily, Dan was willing to stay on drums, and luckily Rat learned to play the guitar well. But the two bass players, Matt and Alex. Matt played traditional bass from the very start, so it wasn't like adapting to having another band member. It was just learning it on the spot. It was pretty organic and natural, really.

[Lori]

Oh, wow. I didn't know that. That's cool.

[Scott Free]

Could have been four bass players.

[Lori]

That would, like, just totally blow less Claypool out of the water, too, with Primus.

[Scott Free]

So that guy is basically four bass players in his own right.

[Lori]

Right. But there was definitely something going on in 91 with bass, like, taking a different role than what we were accustomed to. So.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

Then that kind of explains the liner notes of this album, Godfather.

[Scott Free]

Yes.

[Lori]

Reading directly off the liner notes here, it says Dan. Dan the fast drumming man. That's obviously Dan Wharton. Alex plays one bass, and again, that's Alex Griffin. Then it says Matt the other, meaning Matt plays the other bass. That's Matt Cheslin. Rat does the guitar, and John SINGS.

[Scott Free]

Yep, Keeping it simple and then looking.

[Lori]

At the liner notes when you see who all of the songwriting is credited to, all the songs are credited to Ned's Atomic Dustbin. The entire band.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. And that makes sense with their songwriting process. John Penny talks about it in that interview, how the songwriting process for Neds had been quote in a room with the rest of my mates in Neds, we always used to write songs together on the spot. A kind of magic would happen, or not, as the case would be. And that's where all of the Ned's songs came from. So really they would just get together and the five of them would play, One would have an idea, one would have a riff, they would come up with lyrics on the fly. But yeah, the songs were a fully collaborative effort between the five guys. Although John Penny gets a lot of the glory because he was the front man and this good looking cat with a shock of asymmetrical long hair flopping down over his face. And so he had that look, Rockstar look. But the whole band had that look we were talking about with the long hair and some of them in braids and the baggie and they looked the part of a 1991 English rock band. And yeah, they were all in it together. They were a real team.

[Lori]

Yeah. So this album, as I mentioned this was their debut major label album. It was released in the UK on April 1, 1991. In the United States it was released on Columbia Records on July 2, 1991. In the United States the album has sold over 400,000 copies. And I saw a figure that as of 2013, Godfather is estimated to have sold around 500,000 copies worldwide. So 80% of the copies sold, if I'm doing the math correctly here, 80% of the copies sold were in the United States. The album entered the top Heat Seekers album chart, that's a Billboard chart at number nine in October of 1991. And ultimately on the official Billboard 200 chart, it peaked at 91 in February of 1992. Another thing I found, and this is interesting, but also maybe a little sad, okay. According to an article on Pitchfork Media called Castoffs and cutouts the top 50 most common used CDs by Chris Ott, they ranked the top 50 CDs that you're most likely to find people have sold to used record stores or like in thrift shops, Godfather is ranked at number 10.

[Scott Free]

That's a little crazy. I would think you would hang on to this particular cd. I did, but eh, there's no accounting for some people's tastes.

[Lori]

Well, so Chris, there was an interesting quotation here. If only John Penny were as dead sexy as Jesus Jones, Mike Edwards, Neds might have had a shot. Ouch.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, that's rough.

[Lori]

That's rough. Anything else before we hit the track by track?

[Scott Free]

Yeah, just, you know, in doing the research here, I found some of the descriptions of Ned's Atomic Dustbin sound compelling and hilarious. AllMusic.com was responsible for a couple of these. An urgent, aggressive, sub hardcore sound. I like that one. Wikipedia quoting AllMusic. Although the band had started out as a gothic rock band, it has, quote, developed a dense, assaultive sound that was distinguished by their thundering two bass attack. And I think both of those descriptions really do get at it. They are fierce musicians, but the sound is driving, relentless, energetic and kind of a relentless assault. You'll hear the snippets, individual songs and the playing on them. But yeah, the energy of this album is merciless.

[Lori]

Everything is up tempo, everything is fast drumming, the driving bass. I mean, I haven't read this anywhere, but I kind of have to wonder if they weren't inspired at least somewhat by the Pixies. Because, you know, the tempo and the short songs and the longest song is like four minutes. That's a long song for Neds.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I'll talk about that a little bit in a couple of the songs. You will recall from our having talked about the Pixies when we reviewed Dolittle in a previous episode, how they were maybe not the progenitors, but real proponents of the loud, soft, loud approach to making music.

[Lori]

And this is just loud, loud, loud.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, Ned's Atomic Dustbin is mostly loud, loud, loud, but they take that and twist it and instead of doing it with volume, they do it with tempo. We'll talk about the tempo changes on this album. It is bonkers. In talking about this album, Godfather specifically, the album was described as a blend of frenzied melodic rock with the occasional touch of quirkiness.

[Lori]

Well, this album definitely starts off with a thundering two bass attack. Let's jump right in, Scott. Track one is Kill your television.

[C]

Him took him by the hair Just running round about him out laughing as he fell about sat down for a drink in her father's favorite chair Kill your television.

[Lori]

So I had to be very selective about what snippet of the song that I wanted to do. And unfortunately I wasn't able to do the intro. But the very beginning, the. The way the bass comes in, it reminds me of helicopters.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, it. It is just a blistering Album opener, like frenetic, sometimes kind of herky jerky. You know, getting right to what I was just talking about with the Pixies and Nirvana. It has that Pixies, Nirvana, loud, soft, loud thing, but at just this merciless breakneck pace. 143 beats per minute.

[Lori]

Drink Z. I think we're going to be talking beats per minute a lot in this episode. It comes up, make sure you've got a drink. Candy Zabe.

[Scott Free]

You're going to need it. Yeah, yeah. And yeah. The two baseline thing on this track is pretty rad. They're both really going for it the whole time.

[Lori]

I found an article in the Morning Cell, which is a newspaper based in Allentown, Pennsylvania, and the article is dated October 4, 1991. It's called Ned's Atomic Dustbin Sweeps Group Efforts into Songwriting. In this article, Alex explained the origin of the song title. He bought a sticker in Mystic, Connecticut. He said, quote, I had the sticker on my base while we were in the process of writing a song which had nothing to do with television. Alex admitted, somewhat sheepishly. And John saw it and thought it would be a good title. We like slogans. You don't forget them. So the lyrics were rewritten and the song became about television. Okay, so the first verse, she said. She said, you don't know shit because you never really been there. She turned upon him, took him by the hair, spun him round, about pushed him out laughing as he fell about sat down for a drink in her father's favorite chair. That's the whole first verse. And yeah, I did do that from memory. I always loved that verse because I remember growing up, my father had a favorite chair. And this was the ugliest, most uncomfortable thing you'd ever see.

[Scott Free]

Classic. The dad and Siddharth.

[Lori]

The dad chair. Well, this wasn't like a recliner or anything. I don't even know how to describe this chair. It was like this tannish gray color that had this weird texture that when I was like a little kid, it reminded me of the wrinkled skin of an elephant. It was the weirdest chair in the world. But every time I hear that lyric, that's what I think of, right? So the first verse is third person, she said. And then the second verse, it's basically the same, but he moves to first person. I said, I know I don't know shit because I never really been there. You turned upon me, took me by the hair. So it's the same thing. It's just from a slightly different perspective. I love it. I think that's. That's awesome.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I agree.

[Lori]

And then at the very end, there's that kind of call and response and. Oh, God, what's it called? The, you know, the megaphone. Megaphone, thank you.

[Scott Free]

Oh, I just bought a megaphone for my own band because there's really. There's something great about a megaphone into a microphone. I'm having a lot of fun with it.

[Lori]

Oh, okay. It's Fred Schneider, B52S. He used to do that too, as.

[Scott Free]

Did Daniel Ash in Love and Rockets.

[Lori]

Oh, okay. But, yeah, so then towards the end, there's that call and response. Soap for Sore Eyes need an intermission. If looks could kill, I kill you.

[Scott Free]

Television.

[Lori]

Soap for Sore Eyes.

[Scott Free]

All right, so if I may. Yes, I have a point on that. So in reading interviews with in particular John Penny, he says, when people tell me what one of our songs means, I say, yep, you're right. I'm not going to dash their dreams. I always recall that line, the end line of the song. But it happens at a couple points earlier in it, soap for Sore Eyes. And like, I figured that's play on site for sore eyes. Sight for Sore Eyes is like, oh, this is such a welcome thing for my tired eyes. Whereas Soap for Sore Eyes is like, screw you, man. And it hurts and it's terrible. It's like the opposite of soothing. And I was like, wow, that is a cool play on words. I really like what they did with that. And it just goes with that whole aggro spirit of the song. And then I read where that line came from and what they're actually talking about.

[Lori]

Okay. Because I have a quotation on that.

[Scott Free]

Please regale us with your quotation.

[Lori]

Okay. That article that I mentioned previously in the Morning Call.

[Scott Free]

Yes.

[Lori]

Alex also disclosed the origin of Soap for Sore Eyes, the sneering, cryptic tagline that ends the song quote, john hates soap operas. He really despises them. Rat watches all of them. That's where the line soap for Sore Eyes came from.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

Is that what you had?

[Scott Free]

It is. And it's like, I liked it better before I knew that.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

I mean, it was so much more general when it was just the anti balm, the caustic in your eyes that stings instead of soothes, but instead it's just slamming soap operas. But it can be both things. As John Penny said, when somebody says what the song means to them, he says, yup, you're right. And so, yup, I'm right. My story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Lori]

Yeah. Yeah, this was the first song that I heard by them. And as I mentioned, this single predated the album. So in 1990 when this came out, I was working at a record store.

[Scott Free]

Cool.

[Lori]

Yeah. Oh my gosh. That was like the best time of my life. And I think I might have mentioned in previous episodes prior to you being here, Scott, it was an indie record store that got bought out by music land. So basically the plot of Empire Records, you lived it. I did, yes. And I suppose that would make me Robin Tunney. So from the minute I heard this song, I was absolutely hooked.

[Scott Free]

Oh, yeah. It was like a mantra for the early 90s, right? Not just a great T shirt, but like, we're sticking it to the man. We're not gonna be controlled by the media anymore, man. Although we totally were. I totally failed to kill my television at the time. It took another decade or two before I did. But something about that rebellious teen or 20 something spirit that you wanted to throw off the shackles of the mass media and think for yourself by singing along to a CD brought to you by the mass media on television. There's irony there, I think.

[Lori]

Yeah, a little bit. Little bit. Okay.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Well then, now that we've killed our television and we're just listening to podcasts, let's move on to track two. Less than useful.

[C]

I don't believe what I'm thinking.

[Lori]

I'm.

[C]

Less than useful I could take it from someone at hell but even I think it's truthful I need something my own size Something that fits me well spent so long being serious when someone could have died for less. You want me to smile? Well, I'll try.

[Scott Free]

At 4 minutes, 5 seconds. As you mentioned earlier, the longest track on the album. They are not going for epic length songs here, but this is one that I was referring to that does a variant of the Pixies Nirvana loud, soft, loud thing, but does it with fast, slow, fast. The track opens with a double time punk backbeat that essentially comes out to. I mean, I was saying that 143 beats per minute earlier on Kill your Television was fast. If we're looking at that punk double time beat, it's essentially 240 beats per minute. It is just blindingly fast. And then the chorus slows it down to a straightforward 120 bpm rock beat. So, like, yeah, for the time to have this blend of a frenetic, basically punk song, but with a smooth almost, but not quite crooning vocalist over it, it's unusual. Like it's not the Sneering or yelling or screaming that the punk of the time would be expected to have. And it's like, I'm listening to this. I'm like, wait, is. Is this is Ned's atomic dust bin, the progenitor of pop punk that would really ascend in the 2000s and become, like, the soundtrack of the millennials high school experience. Like, I don't know that they were consciously doing it, but it's one of the first I can think of that had that approach. Essentially punk beats, but with melodic singing, not that rhythmic snarl that you got so much of in 80s punk. Right? 70s and 80s punk, yeah.

[Lori]

No, that's a good observation. Yeah. Okay. So lyrically, yes, one of the themes that is going to keep coming up on this album is interpersonal conflict. A lot of the songs. Songs seem to be about a conflict with a relationship. The previous one, you know, you Turn upon me, took me by the hair. Right. So that's kind of like a physical altercation here. I think it's more of an argument. Spent so long being serious when someone could have died for less do you want me to smile? Well, I'll try Say, I must be in a mess well, let me guess what you suggest. You want me to smile? Well, I'll try. So the implication is that the partner wants him to be happy, wants him to smile when there's other stuff going on that, you know, in the relationship. No, no, I'm with you.

[Scott Free]

I like it.

[Lori]

Okay. So, yeah, a lot of the songs on this album are like, I think, a conflict within a relationship. We're even going to see one song where it's a conflict between a parent and a child. But that seems to be a recurring theme on this album.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. And, like, people talk about John Penny's lyrics, other band members will talk about it and say that he writes about personal stories, but they're not necessarily his personal stories, and that he keeps the lyrics vague so that it's not too specifically tied to his own personal life. And it's sometimes cryptic. Like, there are some. Some of these songs where it's like, you know, I have heard this song a lot of times, and I'm even reading the lyrics now, and I cannot 100% tell you with certainty what the song is about. I think your read on this one is. Yeah, pretty good one. A couple lines that left out for me that I really. Doug. And that includes the title in these lines. I don't believe what I'm thinking I'm less than useful. I could take it from Someone else. But even I think it's truthful. I like the sound of it. And again, I cannot tell you with a hundred percent certainty what he's actually saying there, other than he thinks he's less than useful. Got that part?

[Lori]

Yeah. And then I need someone my own size, someone that fits me well. So he's indicating that this relationship really is not a good fit for him.

[Scott Free]

All right.

[Lori]

Yeah. Okay, so the next song. Scott. 17 year old Lori fell in love with this song immediately because of the samples.

[Scott Free]

Oh, yeah?

[Lori]

Yes. This song is called Selfish.

[C]

Be careful, you might hear something you don't want to hear Be careful, careful, you might say something but you really mean. You say take things easy Go and have some fun but my mind is hay about times I've spent alone.

[Lori]

Okay, so we started off with a sample. Scott, of course, you know where the sample is from.

[Scott Free]

Of course. If you, like much of our listening audience, are a member of Gen X, odds are good that this is a quote you have heard many times when you watched the movie that it came from. Probably recently at Christmas, Everybody's favorite Christmas movie, Die Hard.

[Lori]

Yes, Reginald Vel Johnson indeed as Sergeant Al Powell.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

Back to that interview in the morning. Call again from 91. Quote, we stole it from Die Hard, said Alex. We had just watched the movie and thought it fitted really well. And it really is kind of an anthem almost for Gen X. Be careful, you might feel something you don't want to feel Be careful, you might learn something you don't want to know I'll take things steady go on and be alone I hope your head's aching from having too much fun and if I don't know what's cool Will you call me a loser? If I don't bend the rules will I stay a loser?

[Scott Free]

The selfish gene in me has finally come into being. He's teaching me how to be mean but that's a sorry state to be in.

[Lori]

And the Selfish Gene, that was a book by Richard Dawkins. What year did that come out?

[Scott Free]

1975.

[Lori]

76.

[Scott Free]

76. All right, I'll go with that.

[Lori]

Okay. As we were growing up our generation, we would hear a lot of this, the selfish Gene.

[Scott Free]

And you know, evolution is less about society and species and more about close relations. And that the more closely genetically you are related to someone, the more it is in your interests to act in their interest and to perpetuate your own genes specifically. But, you know, the 80s were a time of incredible selfishness. And at least Gen X in its late teens and twenties was trying to react against that and to be more altruistic or at least not following the footsteps of the baby boomers turned yuppies in the 80s.

[Lori]

And then it ends with, stop yawning, start yearning, wake up. And that's a call for Gen X, right? I mean, Gen X, we were labeled the slacker generation for sure. And so that whole stop yawning, start yearning, you know, stop just observing and being bored with everything and get motivated to long for something better. And I guess that kind of goes along with what you were saying with. We were disillusioned with what we saw our parents doing. Right. With the yuppies and the. And the boomers. So I love this song so much. And not just because of the Die Hard sample. Although that, that.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I mean, musically, this song is pretty impressive. My notes here, man, Dan, Dan the fast drumming man may have been the hardest working man in the drumming business. I believe I already said that once, but man, Dan, Dan the fast drumming man is just really going for it. This song actually, though, is relatively soft for these guys. At least the guitars and at least in the intro and the verses. Dan is working his ass off here, drumming again, practically a drum and bass beat. And the guitars do get bigger with chorus and distortion and eventually a wailing solo. And then the beat just starts chugging even harder like a freight train, really. And I'm just. Dan the drummer is a beast. That's one of my big takeaways from this song.

[Lori]

Yeah, this is. This is a fun one.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, for sure.

[Lori]

I really wish I'd had the opportunity to see these guys live. I know in 91 they had opened for Jesus Jones on tour and that would have just been so freaking amazing to see live.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, they. I. I know in 1990 they opened for the Wonder stuff, but they had not yet been signed, so they did not do a. A tour of the States. I saw the Wonder Stuff at the Nectarine Ballroom in ann Arbor in 1990, but instead of. Instead of having Ned's Atomic Dustbin opening for them, they had the Pursuit of Happiness.

[Lori]

Oh, I remember them.

[Scott Free]

I'm an adult now, you may recall. I'm an adult now. I'm an adult now, anyhow. Didn't get to see them for that tour either. That whole thing can probably be cut up, but whatever.

[Lori]

But anyway, what I was getting at is the energy towards the end of this song especially. What you want to do. What you want to do is wake up. I would love to be in a crowd of people and just feel the energy of the crowd. Crowd at that part of the song. I think it would be absolutely amazing.

[Scott Free]

It's a yes, although. It's a yes. But some of the reviews I have read of Ned's Atomic Dustbin live said that it was again, sort of this merciless, relentless assault that everybody's going and going hard all at the same time on stage. But because there was so much bass and there's so much distortion on the guitars that the vocals really were low in the mix and you could not really hear John Peny especially well. And that when Jessica Coran produced Ned's Atomic Dustbin, co produced with them and put this album out, she really let his vocals shine in a way that you really didn't get live. So it's a trade off. The show would have been amazing, no doubt. But the studio creation version of it lets you hear every individual voice and every individual instrument more distinctly, more cleanly. And there's something to that.

[Lori]

Well, you know, now that you mention it, when I was listening to this, and this is an album that's never left my rotation since it came out, but I was really listening attentively to prepare for this episode. And the recording quality is not great. This is an album, I think that we are long past due for a remaster. You know how they are always coming out with like a remastered edition. I would love to hear a remaster of this one.

[Scott Free]

I will agree. Particularly I would say the two basses, you can hear them playing distinctly, but it would be cool to hear it remastered so that you could hear them even more distinctly. The wall of guitar with all those effects sometimes can muddy some of the other sounds. So sure, it could be made cleaner, but compare that to a live stage setup where it just becomes blasting sludge of sound in anything but the best venue with the best sound person. You could see how this album is at least an improvement over most live music venues.

[Lori]

Goodbye now.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I think we've said all there is to say about selfish. Let's move on to track four. Gray Cell Green.

[C]

It has been found. You'll be running far away. When you're. It is higher. It has been found. You'll be running far away. You're telling me it's in the trees? In the trees.

[Scott Free]

The opening of this song is melodic bass playing with harmonics. Alex is a monster on the bass. Like he's playing it like a guitar, not a bass guitar. He's playing it just straight up like a guitar playing like arpeggios or arpeggio like movements and with harmonics on those. And it's just some incredible bass playing. And then you got another bass player on top of that playing the more rhythmic stuff. I. Yeah, yeah.

[Lori]

All right. So I know this one got released as a single, at least in the United States. It's kind of confusing because there were five different singles off this album. Two of them predated the album. Some of them were released in the United States, some of them were released in the uk. I'm having trouble keeping track of what's what, but I'm pretty sure that this was a single at some point. Wasn't.

[Scott Free]

Was a single in the US and it was particularly notable for getting onto MTV's 120 Minutes and getting a lot of play there. So that is where the young folks with the cool taste in music who are willing to stay up on Sunday night and watch Dave Kendall got to see Ned's Atomic Dustbin, both Kill your Television and Grace L. Green. And, yeah, this was the one that hooked a lot of people, myself included.

[Lori]

Oh, yeah.

[Scott Free]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's good. It's a great song. It's a good video, as I recall. I recall feeling like this was an anthem for the early 90s environmental movement, but, like, I really had no idea what spirit, specifically the lyrics are actually talking about. I mean, you could hear key phrases leap out at you, and there's obviously green in the title and there's mention of trees and on the ground, and you're telling me it's Mother Earth, but still, it's like, I don't know if I actually understand or if I really understood the central thesis. But looking at the lyrics now, you know, as I said earlier, his lyrics can be vague to the point of inscrutable. However, I got a quote from John Penny where he really just explains it and puts a very fine point on it. And it turns out my gut instinct, right, it is an environmental anthem. He was just vague about it.

[Lori]

Well, and then, you know, yes, it does seem like it's environmental. But then I. There's parts of it, that desire, it's inside her, it's inside me.

[Scott Free]

Right? So, yeah, I mean, and he's always vague about it, but he nails himself down on this when he says this from songmeanings.com when I wrote it, what happened was I was starting to become aware of the environment. That was what Gracell Green was about. A lot of people think it's a love song. It isn't a love song. I mean, people can have it as a love song, but What I was writing at the time was related to lots of people saying, we've got to get in touch with Mother Earth. It's in the trees, it's all around us. We're going to get all conceptual and love the planet. And I was saying, actually, it's down to us. We've got to not chuck our crap on the floor. We've got to stop eating meat. That was my thing. I was already starting to get worried about fisheries and overfishing and pumping chemicals into cows. And this was 1989. And then now look where we are. It doesn't please me to feel clever. It doesn't. Nothing has changed. In fact, it's worse. I'm looking back thinking I could have pushed that point a bit more, possibly. But the past is what it is, isn't it? But these days, I do use it. I do use it, if I say so myself. The concept of making your gray cells turn to green issues, I think that's a decent hook for where we're at right now. So, yeah, the gray cells are your brain. The green is the green thinking. And he was. He was vague about it to the point where. Took 34 years for me to actually know that my gut instinct about the song was right. But it also took John Penny explicitly explaining that it was right. So, okay, it's a very compelling song. It creates impressions of environmentalism, but maybe didn't quite drive the point home quite hard enough.

[Lori]

Can I confess something to you?

[Scott Free]

Please do.

[Lori]

I skip this song every time it comes on.

[Scott Free]

Shut the fuck up.

[Lori]

This is. This is the one song I don't like. I think maybe it. Maybe it was just overplayed too much. I don't know. This is the one song that I skip on the album.

[Scott Free]

It is possibly my favorite song on the album, if not the top one in the top two. But that is fascinating. But I get it sometimes. The big single is a big single for a reason. And I like a hooky pop song. And this is one of the hookier poppier songs on the album. And I'm comfortable with that. You don't have to like it. This is another one that does that weird tempo thing that is just unusual. It actually does speed up from the first verse, which is a still impressive 144 beats per minute, to the chorus, where it actually takes off a little bit and bumps up to 154. At least that's what I got when I was using beatsperminuteonline.com, a tool that I oftentimes use to tap out these things. Oh, hey, beatspermintonline.com sponsor us. But, yeah, it's just it. You can feel it in the chorus start to take off just a little bit, and, you know, it's bumping it up an extra 10 beats per minute. You can feel that. And then it slows back down for the next. For the next verse.

[Lori]

You know, a lot of times I don't like when music shifts tempo, but these guys really pull it off very well. Even on this song.

[Scott Free]

It gives it a sense of urgency, right?

[Lori]

It does. And, you know, it's something, too. It's a very subtle thing where it catches your attention and maybe you don't immediately realize why, you know, unless you're actually paying attention and you're tapping out the beats as you were doing. You just. You feel that something has changed, something has shifted. And if your attention is somewhere else, then it's focused back on the song again. So. Okay, so the next song on the album is called cut up.

[C]

Can get your face from the brain. You're no wiser, you're no wiser even now you wish you knew why? You wish you knew why but you're no wiser, you're no wiser even now and you wish you knew why.

[Lori]

So you know, again, Scott, lyrically, we very clearly have a conflict in a relationship. She makes you feel free and that's how it should be? You've got all this time on your hands yes, you want her you feel stronger even now and then do you think if you shout you can sort it all out? You can't get your face from the blame? You're no wiser, you're no wiser even.

[Scott Free]

Now they know that you're cut up so put up or shut up now.

[Lori]

What does that mean? What? What does that mean?

[Scott Free]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. John Penny.

[Lori]

Yeah, I have no idea what that means.

[Scott Free]

Musically, this one is strange. Like, is this song in 12? 8? They're coming through with triplets, but making it rock, which is no mean feat, especially the chorus when the bases and the drums are marching in this triplet lock step. And the guitars go big and then it backs off for the verse, the guitar is just receding into the background. The two basses really get to take the melody. And this band is just so weird but really cool. And, you know, with that sort of triplet thing and the basses and the drummer working in lockstep with this almost military. Military march feel, but in a triplet rhythm that reminds me so much of Big country that I have to think that they listened to and liked them at some point. Yeah. Okay. You haven't already listened to Big Country's self titled album, do yourself a favor and give it a listen.

[Lori]

All right.

[Scott Free]

The next one is mine, and that is track six, Throwing Things.

[C]

I'm not saying this for the sake of it I'll take so much that I'll have to quit I know how I feel I know how I feel the words don't fit I can't speak I can't speak I can't speak.

[Lori]

I.

[C]

Think I've lost the art of conversation Things are looking bleak Please go easy on me I don't know what's wrong with me Please be gentle with me and take it easy Take it easy Take it easy Take it out of.

[Lori]

Me I love this one.

[Scott Free]

Okay. Yeah. So what leapt out at me about this track was the lyrics. I think I've lost the art of conversation Things are looking bleak because you don't speak and I don't speak we never seem to speak I think you're deaf I think you're dumb but you tell me and then just when you think you're in a nuanced song about adult relationships, let's start throwing things and just repeating, let's start throwing things. And you know, you have to be like, okay, so these guys were actually in their early twenties after all. And that caused me to look up, like, how old is John Penny? John Penny is only two years older than me. Jesus, what the fuck was I doing at age 23? Was23 when this album came out. I have the regrets. If I could go back, I would really have pursued the rock star path a lot earlier. I think it would have been easier then.

[Lori]

Yeah, youth is wasted on the young. Yeah, I'm with you on that. On the lyrics here again, this is obviously about a conflict. There's that line, we've got verbal constipation. And I think most of us have been at a point in a relationship where you do not feel that you are being listened to. You do not feel that you are being heard. And the only way that you know to get your point across, to get attention is to start throwing things. Now, once in the past 20 years, I've gotten to that point where I've pretty much lost my shit and just started throwing things. But it doesn't happen too often. But, I mean, we can all relate to that, right?

[Scott Free]

As a man in today's world, I am only allowed to throw things when I'm by myself.

[Lori]

Do you have the urge even if you didn't?

[Scott Free]

Oh, sure, yeah.

[Lori]

Or otherwise, you know, even if it's just like slamming a door or something. Right. And then, of course, the. I guess the chorus. Please go easy on me. I don't know what's wrong with me Please be gentle with me and take it easy Take it easy Take it easy Take it out on me. There's some regret here, you know, he lost his temper, you know, whatever. I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm sorry. Be gentle. And then I think a little bit of sexual tension as well, you know, Take it out on me. The making up after the. The fight and whatnot. So that's how I'm interpreting that.

[Scott Free]

I'll go with it.

[Lori]

Okay. All right.

[Scott Free]

Nothing more to say about it.

[Lori]

Okay. All right. That's fair. And anything more. I think we'll get ourselves in trouble, right?

[Scott Free]

I think we're probably right. Yeah. One of these days you will just let loose with our personal lives on this show and just get ourselves into all kinds of trouble. But not. Not this episode.

[Lori]

Okay. All right. Like me admitting to. Okay, all right. All right. You know what I really like about this one? Besides the lyrics, besides the driving beat and everything. It just opens with John singing. I'm not saying this for the sake of it. Most songs you have the instruments coming in and then the vocals, but he's just. It's like a cold open. Right. He's just starting right in. This is a really good one. I really like this one.

[Scott Free]

I am with you. Okay.

[Lori]

All right. Well, the next one is called capital letters.

[C]

We both know I need this too much. Hold it. I know that it's got to stop But I can't keep my anger up Change it, it's your job. Change it, it's your job.

[Lori]

I'm.

[C]

I'm stuck. I'm stuck, I'm stuck. We both know I need this too much Only I know that it's got to stop But I can't keep my anger up Change it, It's your job.

[Scott Free]

You know. This one opens with another Dan Dan, the fast drumming man, fast drumming beat. It's got a kind of break beat thing that he's going, but heavy on the snare. The guitars come in. And this is a different Feeling song. This isn't just the big wall of chorus and distortion guitar. It's a strummed what sounds like a 12 string guitar. And so it's as hard as ever in the beat, but softer in the Overall tone of the song, which is a change of pace. Well, a change of tone. It's still the same fast pace Again.

[Lori]

You know, I tend to get very stuck on the lyrics, so, you know, that's kind of my obsession. But we have a bit of a relationship conflict again. Right. We both know I need this too much. Only I know that it's got to stop, but I can't keep my anger up. Change it. It's your job. So he's ascribing responsibility to her for his emotional state. There's two parts of this song that I really like in terms of lines. When she looks at me in that tone of voice, she don't need to make a noise. You can read her thoughts in capital letters.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. That is some amazing writing right there. I had that same pair of lines in my notes as well. This really stood out to me well.

[Lori]

And I find that very relatable because I've been told by many people I would be a terrible poker player. I cannot hide my feelings to save my life. And you know me well enough to know Scott, you can see it in my face when something one need not.

[Scott Free]

Ask, is Lori mad? Because before you even open your mouth, you know, but then you open your mouth and you really know.

[Lori]

I don't even have to throw things right.

[Scott Free]

Another line. There's another line that leapt out at me. Maybe not for the best reason, but she'll break some hearts when she grows up. She'll break some hearts if she owns up. Mine is one. And I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that he means grows up metaphorically. When she starts acting her age, which is definitely an adult and old enough. And this is not an example of the Papa Rock star doing a creepy song about somebody too young. It does sound like he's talking about an adult relationship, so I'm going to say yes. He was talking metaphorically about the growing up.

[Lori]

You know, I like that. Mine is one. If she'll break some hearts when she owns up.

[Scott Free]

Right?

[Lori]

Including his, right? Yeah.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, it is. It's some good writing. He knows what he's doing, this John Penny cat.

[Lori]

Yeah, yeah. Really underrated, too. I mean, the band is underrated, but yeah, the. The song lyrics are very underrated.

[Scott Free]

I will give you that. Again, it's. It is sometimes hard to get. To get a foothold, to really dig into it, because it is oftentimes, as we've already said, vague. But the feeling is there, and you get the gist of what he's talking About. But the specifics again, is he talking about someone in particular? Who? Is it his life? Is it just a story you don't know? And I guess that kind of makes it relatable for everyone if you can make out the lyrics at all over the craziness of this hard working band. It's relatively lightweight song on the album, but enjoyable enough.

[Lori]

All right.

[Scott Free]

But I am happy to be done with it so we can get on to track eight. One of my absolute favorites on the album. Happy.

[C]

Feeling so frustrated Even anti grated Cause you can't update me if I'm overrated.

[Scott Free]

All right, so this track was Ned's Atomic Dustbin's first major label release in March of 91. It reached number 16 in the UK and cracked the top 20 in the US on the modern rock chart.

[Lori]

Number 11. Right?

[Scott Free]

Yeah. All right, great. Even more specific.

[Lori]

Okay. Alex said, quote, I don't know much about it. John wrote it. He writes really vague and about personal situations, not necessarily his own. He doesn't like to explain. And that was from that article in the Morning Call from October of 91.

[Scott Free]

So, yeah, I mean, that checks out with everything we've been saying up to this point where the lyrics are, in their way, evocative and compelling, but also vague and sometimes confusing.

[Lori]

Yeah. And then in that same article, when people tell me what one of our songs means, I say, yep, you're right. I'm not going to dash their dreams. And that was Alex again.

[Scott Free]

I actually quoted that earlier in this episode.

[Lori]

Yeah, you did, you did.

[Scott Free]

So on those lyrics, we have a house where I'm in your hair I'll go spare and leave you happy in there if you will fly off the handle Wait until I'm not there. And I think we have all been in that relationship, so.

[Lori]

Yeah, the other partner in the relationship, they apparently have a temper, huh?

[Scott Free]

Seems that way. Yeah.

[Lori]

Yeah. So Alex does the backup vocals and it's really kind of clever. We have a house. Alex is like where I'm in your hair. Where I'll go spare and leave you happy. Where in there. Did you ever catch that? How it's like that? Where? In the backup vocals.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, yeah, I dig that.

[Lori]

Yeah, I like it too.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. And the, you know, the chorus, again, relatable relationship stuff because I will talk, maybe you will listen but you won't hear a single word I say. And just that frustration of it. And then for the song to actually be called Happy when clearly that's not what's in play. The other person in the relationship Will be happy when he has left the room and left the house to leave them on their own. So. Irony, irony.

[Lori]

Been there.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. So musically, they do love a good punk rock backbeat. And the bassists are just always going for it in the song. And I think is the opening strumming. Is that Alex strumming a bass?

[Lori]

Oh, I'm gonna have to. I'm gonna have to hear it again because I don't. I don't remember exactly how it begins. I love the wah wah wah wah electric guitar on there that I really like that. Oh, yeah, Hang on. Happy Neds.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, give it. Give it that opener a listen because yeah, it's not the electric chorus, wah and distortion guitar that they usually use. And there is a playing. It's just. Are both basses playing?

[Lori]

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Scott Free]

Right. And they're doing more like the basis start always going for it in this song. And they're actually doing more melodic work than the guitarist than Rat is. The guitar really just tends to do these fast chords with so much chorus and distortion that it just becomes this rhythmic sonic wallpaper. But the basses are doing the melodic work. This band is so strange and so good.

[Lori]

And it's really interesting too, the way the two bass lines kind of seem to weave around each other.

[Scott Free]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Lori]

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if that's, you know, due to the producer Jessica Corcoran, or if it's. The song was just written that well. Probably a little of both.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I know. That is how the bass players tend to interact with each other. As I said, like, Alex is consistently doing this melodic work and then Matt is doing the more straight rhythmic stuff. Traditional, straight, rhythmic bass work. Yeah. So the way they weave in and out of each other is really impressive, particularly in this track.

[Lori]

Yeah, that's all I got on that one.

[Scott Free]

That's plenty. Moving along.

[Lori]

Yes. So next up, we have your complex.

[C]

Don't go telling me it's gone wrong don't go telling me on the phone Cause the only voice I hear is my own so don't go know Telling me it's gone wrong that don't love with me I know better don't go.

[Scott Free]

Okay, so like first notes, it's just a slow baseline and you're like, are they gonna do a slow one? And then. Ha.

[Lori]

Psych.

[Scott Free]

That's not Ned's Atomic dustbin style. It's another hard triplet time signature. 12, 8 again. I. I believe it immediately picks up into this rapid fire, huge groove with these constantly moving Bass lines and big guitars. Because, Neds, it's what they do.

[Lori]

Yes. Okay. So of course I'm going to dive in with the lyrics again.

[Scott Free]

Please.

[Lori]

Again, we have this conflict, this relationship conflict. Don't go telling me it's gone wrong. And for Christ's sake. Oh, for Christ's sake, not on the.

[Scott Free]

Phone, because the only voice you'll hear is your own. I have the same pair of lines in my notes. It really does stand out at me.

[Lori]

Yeah, yeah. Of course now with emails and text messages and everything, things have changed a little bit. But late 80s, early 90s, if you broke up with somebody over the phone, that was considered gauche, you know, it was you. You at least want to give them the dignity of telling them to their face. You know what I mean?

[Scott Free]

Yeah, yeah. Can you imagine ghosting somebody back then? Look, that's just commonplace now, but it was, like, unheard of back then.

[Lori]

Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Free]

They would show up at your house.

[Lori]

Yeah, yeah, they would.

[Scott Free]

You know, the notes that I have here, like, we are at the end of song nine. There are a total of 13 songs on the album. We're at the end of song nine. And my note is, man, these guys are really good and make some really complex music, but God damn, it can be exhausting. It is just relentless. It's always fast, it's always active. Frenetic. The drummer is working his ass off. The bassists are all over the board. Like, it is merciless.

[Lori]

I wouldn't have it any other way. That's.

[Scott Free]

It's not a complaint. It's a little bit of a complaint, but, like, it's as much I'm impressed as I am exhausted.

[Lori]

You've been, like, in the mosh pit for the entire nine tracks, and you're just right. Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Free]

Battered at this point.

[Lori]

Yeah, man, I. I'm just. I'm kicking myself that I never got the chance to see him live. I just.

[Scott Free]

Not completely outside the realm of possibility, but if they were to put out a record and tour again, they would be pushing 60 and probably not going to have that same level of energy as when they were in their mid-20s.

[Lori]

Well, you might think that, but, you know, the last time I saw Jesus Jones. Oh, my gosh. Mike Edwards dancing all over the place. Right. And then, like, when we saw you and I saw James Tim Booth climbing up the balconies. I mean, age is just a number.

[Scott Free]

Right on.

[Lori]

But you might be right. You might be right. All right, moving on.

[Scott Free]

Track 10. Nothing. Like.

[C]

I don't know what you're thinking when you fail to see things on end? You hate a secret start again. You don't seem nothing like my friends? You don't seem nothing like my friends? You just watch me cause you cannot stop me.

[Scott Free]

Again. Another one that opens up with a bass acting like a lead guitar. Fast plucking and like seriously, I think this is the only band I can recall that has a lead bass player and then also a rhythm bass player.

[Lori]

Peter Hook really kind of pioneered the lead bass idea, but there wasn't a second basist.

[Scott Free]

Right.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Scott Free]

You know, this one uses a gag that we have seen earlier in the album on actually Grace L. Green, but pushes it even further and that is that tempo change. The verses in this song are at around 130bpm, so it's still over two beats a second. So it's fast paced. But then the chorus, it picks up and takes the off 164 bpm. Like it is fast and just. Yeah, merciless.

[Lori]

You just watch me because you cannot stop me.

[Scott Free]

Right, right. Well, I mean I, I, I would even go back a little bit from that.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

I don't know what you're thinking. When you fail to see things are at an end. You hate to see me start again. You don't seem nothing like my friend. You just watch me because you cannot stop me. So yeah, you cannot stop me. They're telling you right there in the lyrics. They are an unstoppable force, man.

[Lori]

Yeah. And the way that the verses are slower and then the you just watch me it gets that much faster. It's like the other person is holding them back. What I think of when I hear this now, obviously this wasn't always the case, but you knew my ex husband. You knew what? You knew me when that relationship fell apart. And one of the last things that he said to me when I was leaving was, you know, you won't make it without me. And I'm thinking to myself, dude, I've been living on my own since I was 18. You know, I've had jobs and responsibilities and all this kind of stuff. And you went from living with your parents to moving in with me, so. And you're telling me that I can't make it without you, so I just never looked back. But that's exactly how I felt when I was, you know, walking out the door the last time. You just watch me because you cannot stop me.

[Scott Free]

Nice.

[Lori]

Yeah. I don't know if I'm going to leave that in or not.

[Scott Free]

No, could go either way. But it's Good stuff.

[Lori]

Oh, and there's another line here that I really like too. I don't deny you're in good health, but I do deny that I've found wealth. The partner in the relationship. You know, they think they're all that. They're God's gift and you should be grateful that you're in this relationship. You know, I do deny that I found wealth. I deny that this relationship is as valuable as you're making it out to be. So I like this one.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Yeah. Solid.

[Lori]

Okay, so, Scott, the next track is called until youl Find Out. Let's listen.

[C]

All you need, All I do is.

[Lori]

Catch me.

[C]

When I'm back on the real scene and all the things that I don't do Just make me laugh because they irritate you what you don't know.

[Scott Free]

So yeah, this one opens with a deep drone, but I think at this point we know better than to think that we're going to get a slow number. Nine seconds in. The drums come in strong and fast.

[Lori]

This one, to me is not as memorable as some of the other ones on the album, but it's worth noting that this was the second single off the album that was released before God Fodder when they were still on Chapter 22 records. So this one was released as a single in 1990. So it's one of their older songs.

[Scott Free]

And it did reach number 51 on the UK charts. So before they'd even put out their first album, they were getting minor UK hits. You know, I've talked about the tempo changes in several of these songs. This track is even weirder in that the beat itself just totally changes for the chorus. This one is odd in that the beat totally changes for the chorus. The whole machine shifts gears from a punk rock double time beat in the verses to a more straightforward rock beat in straight four with a tambourine and everything. So it becomes a much more conventional pop rock song. But in those verses it has a punk feel to it.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Scott Free]

And then for the chorus it goes back to the double time punk beat and it's at a blindingly fast 202 bpm versus 116 for the chorus. So yeah, it's not just this herky jerky going from slower but still fast to taking off for the choruses. But then the whole beat changes and it's like there's a couple different songs happening in the same 3 minute and 10 second span.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Scott Free]

Xavier, you still with us? I know. I've been talking a lot about BPM here. And for Those of you who are new to the show, we have an ongoing gag with one of our listeners, himself, a podcast host on another show who commented that at one point, I say BPM so often that it should be a drinking game and that he'll take a shot every time I say bpm. So, Zay.

[Lori]

He's probably on the floor. He's probably passed out.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

Anyway, so back to the song for a second, please. So again, relationship conflict. My first impression is that somebody's being unfaithful. What you don't know ain't gonna hurt you while you don't know and what you can't see ain't gonna kill you until you find out.

[Scott Free]

Oosh.

[Lori]

Yeah, there's definitely something that he's hiding.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. But he doesn't give you enough in the lyrical content for you to get more than that. And, you know, there are a lot of things one can hide in a relationship. So.

[Lori]

True.

[Scott Free]

That isn't necessarily infidelity, but, you know. Yeah, Certainly high probability.

[Lori]

This kind of ends up being like a Rorschach. And I suppose, you know, we kind of see our own selves or our own situations in the lyrics. Right. And that's what you were talking about earlier, about how some of these are.

[Scott Free]

Just vague enough that they're relatable no matter your specific circumstances. Yeah, I feel you.

[Lori]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, the thing that was interesting, though, and I'm not quite sure what to make of this line. It's not so easy to get in between us. I think we're tired of the same things. It's like getting locked out when the phone rings. So again, 1991, remember, cell phones were not ubiquitous yet. So. So you're locked out of the house and the phone is ringing inside the house.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

And it's a stressful situation, but I don't know what to make of that in the context of the rest of it.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I got nothing but. Again, evocative but vague to the point of. Yep.

[Lori]

Hey, you know, John Penny, if you happen to be listening or Alex Griffin or any of the other guys, send us an email. We'[e-mail] let us know what you were getting at on this song. And, hey, maybe you'll even come on and let us interview you. Wouldn't that be awesome?

[Scott Free]

Would be awesome.

[Lori]

It would be awesome.

[Scott Free]

John Penny has a new project to promote. Well, new Ish within the last several years. So, yeah, we'll get to that shortly. Only a couple tracks left on the album. Let's get to the next of them, track 12, you.

[C]

Your trainee trooper with your tenor side, trendy tosh. I'll bet you, I bet you think now, don't you? I said I. I bet you think now, don't you? I bet you think, don't you? You, your mom, your dad, your uncle with his fist on your pitching. I bet you, I bet you think now, don't you? I said I am.

[Lori]

I love this one, Scott. I love this one.

[Scott Free]

Right? Me too. It is the shortest song on the album, coming in at a whopping 2 minutes and 3 seconds. And I know you like lyrics. I can give you all of the lyrics to the song in, like, 20 seconds. This song is short. You, you, trainee trooper with your 10 aside trendy tosh. I bet you think now, don't you? You, your mom, your dad, your uncle and his fish pond, your pet chinchilla. I bet you think now, don't you?

[Lori]

I love that part. I love that part.

[Scott Free]

Right? And, you know, I was listening to this for the first time in a long time. This is track 12 of 13. I don't always make it all the way through the album, but, you know, listening to this for the first time in a long time, I'm writing in my notes, I got to think he's referencing, however obliquely, Carly Simon's you're so vain. And then there it is at the end where he just straight up quotes it. You're so vain. You probably think this song is about.

[Lori]

You, don't. You don't? You don't. Yes. Yeah. No, it's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. And I don't know why. I just crack up every time he gets to that line.

[Scott Free]

Well, yeah, there's that. And like, we've been talking about how the lyrics tend to be so vague that they're relatable and a Rorschach test, and everyone can relate. This one is so bizarrely specific. Your uncle and his fish pond, your pet chinchilla. Oh, that's. That's super relatable for all of us.

[Lori]

It seems like, you know, it seems like he's kind of saying, yeah, you think you're all that, right? Doesn't that. Isn't that kind of what you're taking away from that?

[Scott Free]

I mean, yes, although your uncle and his fish pond. I mean, I. Yeah, it's a strange thing for someone to brag about, but yes.

[Lori]

But, you know, let's face it, if you have a fish pond, then you probably have a very large property that costs money to maintain. So uncle's probably rich.

[Scott Free]

All right.

[Lori]

Right.

[Scott Free]

I'll allow it.

[Lori]

You. You'll allow it. Okay. But yeah, you, your mom, your dad, and the same with the chinchilla. I mean, chinchillas are not inexpensive pets. You can't just go down to the shelter and adopt the chinchilla. So.

[Scott Free]

All right, all right. I'm not. I'm not sure. I have never attempted to adopt a chinchilla.

[Lori]

One of my sisters had one at one time.

[Scott Free]

Huh. So you're not a fancy one?

[Lori]

No, no, no. She had a chinchilla. She named it doom. D o o m. Sure. And so then she'd say, oh, here comes doom.

[Scott Free]

And now's the time where we sing the doom song. Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom. We have gotten really far too deep into this for this episode.

[Lori]

I know, I know. It's going to be fun to edit.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

Anything else on you?

[Scott Free]

No, just this one's a lot of fun. We have talked about it for longer than it ran.

[Lori]

Exactly, exactly. All right, well, the last track on the album, Scott, is also a lot of fun. I really like this one, too. It's called what gives my son look.

[Scott Free]

Like a goddamn girl?

[C]

Far before me to say you're looser. Far before me to say you're no one. I've heard your excuses. I heard your excuse. I've heard your excuses, everyone.

[Scott Free]

You don't know what's going.

[C]

You don't know what's going. You don't know what's going on, my son. Funny for me to see your brain dead. You might help me to get your ass out of bed.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. It is an appropriate closer to an album that has been relentless as it is itself. Relentless. Another short one, 2 minutes, 43 and driving. Beats and bass and guitars throughout. It opens with. And you wanted to talk about this?

[Lori]

Yeah. So I was really pleased I identified the sample. It's a movie I'd never heard of, but apparently you have, Scott. It's a movie called purple haze from 1982. The actor's name is Bob Breuler, not to be confused with Robert brewler from the steppenwolf theater over here. This is apparently a different actor, but that whole part about, you know, your long hair, you look like a goddamn girl. All of that. That's from the movie purple haze?

[Scott Free]

Yeah. I remember this movie playing on cable, and I was taken enough by it that it was one of the very few movies that I ever sought out when it was going to play again and put a VHS tape in our VCR and recorded it. So That I would have it or later. Great. So yeah, I will admit when I re listened to what gives My Son as the Closer on this album and I heard that quote, I cannot say that I specifically recalled that it was from that movie. But when you told me it was from Purple Haze, I'm like, oh yeah, I remember that movie. I think I still have that VHS tape. Don't have a TV that can take a vcr, but.

[Lori]

Surprised. Well, it's gotta be on streaming somewhere, don't you think?

[Scott Free]

No doubt. Yeah. Probably easier than going out and buying a CRT TV and having it this.

[Lori]

Song as opposed to the other ones that seem to be about a love relationship that's gone bad. This is definitely tension between a father and a son. Far be it for me to say you're brain dead. It might help if you get your ass out of bed. It twists me inside to see your girlfriend's backside. She gets tongue tied and run. So dad's a little bit of a perv probably.

[Scott Free]

I mean just, you know, maybe. But the lines that leap out to me and you know, fathers and sons as often as not have a strained relationship when the son is coming of age or right on the verge of it. You're my son. I'm older than you. You can't be a man too. Your hair is too long. Get out of my home. Get out of my home. I think most men can at least relate a little bit. Had some version of that experience. Maybe not all the way up to the get out of my home part, but that just conflict between fathers and sons. Generational gaps. Don't like your fashion. Don't like your choices. You're lazy or whatever. And where the son is becoming a man and there's that tension and that head butting and yeah, rough time.

[Lori]

This song, it makes me laugh just the way that everything's presented. You went too far. You crashed my car. You crashed my car. You crashed my car. I'm in a rage. Get off that stage. Get off that stage. Okay. Okay. Love it. I think it's fantastic and it's a great way to end the album. It's got like that loud kind of feedbacky sound at the end. It's a fantastic song. It's a fantastic album.

[Scott Free]

I mean there's not has that youthful energy and they were even old enough that this was in the past for them so they can be kind of tongue in cheek about it. But yeah, this, this is an album of young men making crazily energetic music for young people at the beginning Of a new era and the youth rising. And you know, this is a very Gen X album. If it only had kill your television on it so that it was one of those iconic moments of Gen X that would do it. But as we've gone through this track by track tour, exhausting though it can be lyrically, musically, sonically, it is very 1991, but just in a really good way.

[Lori]

There is not a bad song on this album. And you know, as I've said, this has never left my rotation since it came out in 91. As a matter of fact, you mentioned you hadn't heard it in a long time. Scott, I suspect that the last time that you may have heard it was in our office, because I used to play it in our office about 20 years ago.

[Scott Free]

That sounds about right. It is very much a product of its time. To some people's mind, it probably sounds dated. This is not a sound that anyone is making these days. And that might contribute to it being the. What was it? Number 10 most found in used record stores. CD. Yeah, sad but true. But as a time capsule of 1991 and capturing one little sliver of the subculture and be an exemplar of a sub genre of music at the time, this is about as strong as they come. As far as the grebo scene goes. I am more of a pop will eat itself man myself, but I realized that even fewer people can put up with pop Willy itself.

[Lori]

Scott, you know what I'm going to ask you?

[Scott Free]

What are you going to ask me?

[Lori]

What's your favorite track on the album?

[Scott Free]

Ah, boy. It is up between two of the songs that were singles and I know oftentimes go with one of the bigger songs, but it's up between Gracel green and Happy and I think I'm going to give it to Happy actually.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

And yours?

[Lori]

Well, I'm between kill your television and throwing things, but I think I'm going to go with throwing things because it's not the expected answer. So.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, the grossly overplayed one. Not that anything by Ned's atomic dustbin is grossly overplayed these days.

[Lori]

Well, except at my house. All right, so now I guess we get to the what came after.

[Scott Free]

What came after. The Neds released a couple more albums. Two more with. Yes, a total of three albums on the major label, each with less commercial success than the one before. Godfather really was their high watermark. Right.

[Lori]

And arguably their best album.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, they experimented more whereas Godfather was. I'm not gonna say one note because, oh, My God, there are so many notes. But it was, as I've said so many times, this sort of relentless energy the whole time. The next two albums experimented more with different styles.

[Lori]

So, yeah, their second album came out in 92. It was called Are youe Normal? And the only song that I remember hearing off of that one was called Not Sleeping Around. And that one was a little bit more scaled back. I guess they didn't really have the whole dual base oomph that the previous tracks did. I mean, it's an okay song, it's just. It's not as good. And then, of course, 1993, one of my favorite movies, which I have to.

[Scott Free]

Mention, I thought you were going to bring this up. Yeah, it is such a weird pairing, but.

[Lori]

But it totally works.

[Scott Free]

So your favorite movie was, of course.

[Lori]

So I Married an Axe Murderer.

[Scott Free]

Mike Myers classic.

[Lori]

Yes.

[Scott Free]

And, yeah, the Ned's Atomic Dustbin cover of the Bay City Rollers Saturday Night did appear on that soundtrack and has an absolutely bonkers music video.

[Lori]

I love their cover of that song. Song. Dan's drumming on that one. I mean, it's just pounding this. You just feel it everywhere, you know, and it's. Oh, it's so good. It's so good.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Then in 1995, they released their third and final, at least to date, album, Brain Blood Volume. And that was a more experimental album for them with, you know, incorporating more electronic and sampling elements. And it was, as we alluded to earlier, the least commercially successful of their albums. Ned's Atomic Dustbin, after that third album, broke up, but then reunited for a show here or there, and would tour occasionally, largely in the uk, but, you know, they remained, maybe not active as a band, but no longer broken up as a band. And they would get together when the mood struck and there was a gig and whatever.

[Lori]

Well, I know that John and Rat formed a band at one time called Groundswell.

[Scott Free]

Yes.

[Lori]

Now, that's not to be confused with Three Days Grace, because Three Days Grace, their original name was Groundswell. It's a different band.

[Scott Free]

Right.

[Lori]

And then there was also Ned's Acoustic Dustbin.

[Scott Free]

Right.

[Lori]

And that was, boy, I want to say, 2017. Miles Hunt from the Wonder stuff had really encouraged them to explore recording some of their stuff acoustically. And so then again, that was John and Rats, and they did some versions without drums or bass.

[Scott Free]

Right on. Yeah. During the course of the lockdowns, during the pandemic, John Penny, looking for ways to occupy himself, as we all were at the time, started writing music again. And he would just Pick up a guitar and by his own admission he is rubbish at all instruments. But he figured got all the time in the world on his hands. So he started learning how to play acoustic guitar and then started recording very short tracks on a four track recording app on his phone and decided, hey, maybe I'd like to start actually making music again. So reached out to the rest of the guys in the band and asked if any of them would be interested in making music with him. And Dan Wharton, the drummer, was the one who stepped up and said he would do it. But it turns out he was always a multi instrumentalist. So when John Penny teams up with him, he's got a guy who is able to play all of the instruments and over the course of months they put together a number of tracks and then they go into the studio, they book eight days of studio time and they record, I believe an 11 track album under the name Spares S P A I R S. And you know, I listened to a couple tracks by Spares and there is some of that Ned's feeling in it. But it's made by men in their 50s. They released their LP in 2022.

[Lori]

Yeah, I just happened to find it atspares band camp.com, so I think I'm probably going to be checking it out once we log off here.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, yeah. They wrote enough music and recorded enough songs that they had talked about the possibility of another record. But so far there is just the one. But it is listenable, it's good stuff. It's good to hear John Penny and Dan Wharton making music again. Hopefully Spares will continue to make more music. The big question then also is, will Ned's Atomic Dustbin make another record? I do have another quote from John penny from that 23 ABC Bakersfield interview. I wish I could be more positive about that one. The magic with Ned's songwriting was those five guys in a room together. With time, we've got the five guys, but we don't have the time because we're not a full time band and we've lived 30 years since and some of us are quite busy with other stuff, with careers and whatever. So to be able to release yourself into a rehearsal room for five or six hours to write songs is just at the moment an impossibility. So hard to make it happen. But they have not closed the door on the possibility.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

It would be interesting to hear what that particular group of five guys would do in their mid to late 50s. What would that sound like? Would it still have that relentless youthful energy and if it didn't, what would that sound like? I think it could potentially be very interesting.

[Lori]

So fantastic album. Thank you for humoring me with this one, Scott. Although I didn't have to twist your arm too much.

[Scott Free]

Not too hard.

[Lori]

It's a goodbye from me, Lori, and.

[Scott Free]

From me, Scott free. We'll meet you back here in two weeks.