A (3:04)

You know I do.

B (3:06)

Yep. Then saw at the Old Town school of folk Music, a decidedly non folky band, Icelandic dark dream pop band M, that's lowercase M, U with an accent. M is absolutely hauntingly beautiful. Highly recommend. If you don't know M, look up, we have a map of the piano and tell me that that song is not just absolutely haunting. And the rest of their catalog kind of follows in that mode. And instrumental with drum machines, lots of feedback. Clearly they've listened to some cocktail twins in their time. Two female lead singers and a male lead singer, and just very Icelandic. It's. It's difficult to describe, but it's fantastic and it was a really great show. Then finally I got to see, just the other night at the Salt Shed in Chicago, Garbage, thanks to my co host, Lori, who gave me a pair of tickets to the show.

A (4:16)

Yeah, well, thank you to my friend Chuck, because he gave me his tickets. So I'm glad that you were able to come. It was nice to see you both.

B (4:25)

It was a great time. Thank you so much.

A (4:28)

I'm going to share with the listeners the little text exchange that we had Monday afternoon before the show.

B (4:34)

Okay.

A (4:34)

Texted you. Hey, any interest in seeing Garbage tonight at the Salt Shed? I may have two extra GA tickets. And you wrote back maybe. Yeah, I was planning on working on this podcast. I do, but that can always wait.

B (4:52)

Yeah, well, you know, it did maybe delay recording of this episode by a day, but I'm going to say worth it. That show was a lot of fun. If you're not familiar with the venue and most of our listeners are not in Chicago and probably aren't, it used to be a giant warehouse where the Morton Salt Company stored a ton of salt and has since been converted into one of the best concert venues in Chicago. The sound is so good. It's a big room, it's comfortable, new, fresh. It's great place. And another pair of shouts out to two folks at the Salt Shed. My friend Shelly and her boss Riley hooked us all up with VIP section upgrades. So we went up into the balcony, off to the side of the stage with a great view of Shirley Manson and Butch Vig and company. And yeah, damn, they put on a. They put on a hell of a show. So slick at times. And it's like, made me realize, well, you think of Garbage, you think, okay, Shirley Manson, because obviously she's dreamy and outspoken and feisty and glamorous and all that. That, yeah, it's the Butch Vig show, man. Like, the producer is the star of that show and also the drummer following in the proud tradition of Phil Collins and Genesis.

A (6:14)

You just had to bring Phil into this.

B (6:16)

You know I did.

A (6:17)

Oh, geez.

B (6:18)

But yeah, it was a great show.

A (6:20)

It was a great show. I was a little disappointed because my friend Chuck is friends with the band and we thought we would have an opportunity to meet with the band after the show, but unfortunately we received word that the band members weren't really feeling well. I know Shirley mentioned her voice was a little hoarse and so they weren't able to meet with us. And I was all set. Scott. I had my black Sharpie and I was going to have Shirley sign my skin and then go straight to the tattoo parlor and have it tattooed. But unfortunately that did not happen.

B (6:57)

So one day soon, no doubt, you will encounter Shirley Manson and get her to sign you.

A (7:04)

Yeah, you know, if I have to stalk her or whatever. Sure.

B (7:07)

Perfect. Yeah. All of you, please ignore that. Act like you didn't hear it when this comes up later at trial.

A (7:15)

Scott, you know, as long as you've known me, Shirley Manson is like one of my heroes. She's amazing. And I didn't have to figure out where on my body I was going to have her sign. I was actually thinking about inner thigh, but that might have been a little awkward.

B (7:29)

Yeah, a little.

A (7:30)

Then again, if anybody would do it, Shirley would do it. So, Shirley, if you're listening, catch me next time you're in town.

B (7:39)

Although that was one of the big revelations that had been making the rounds in the music press before the show, and they talked about it on stage is Shirley Manson outspoken about the economics of the music industry and the shoddy treatment that bands receive while on tour, particularly in the States? Garbage has said that they will not be doing headlining tours of the United States anymore. That they may do a one off festival show here or there, but the days of Garbage headlining a tour in the States are done.

A (8:15)

Yet another reason why I'm glad we got to go.

B (8:17)

Same. Yeah. Great. Thank you for it. And thanks to. And thanks to Chuck for letting us have those tickets. Really, really made the night.

A (8:28)

All right.

B (8:28)

Anyhow, anyhow, what are we talking about today?

A (8:32)

Well, I chose the album this week and I chose the 1992 album Hotwired by the Soup Dragons.

B (8:42)

Okay. So I absolutely remember this album, or particularly the singles from when it came out, particularly the big single, which was absolute unavoidable, ultra catchy, great pop rock, dance song. But I did not own the album. And I'm wondering why this album? What is your history with it? What did it mean to you?

A (9:08)

Okay, well, it was actually my first husband that got me into the Soup Dragons. He was a really big fan. He was a farm boy from Fairfield, Iowa, and we did a road trip out to meet his family, and we listened to this the whole way there, and.

B (9:27)

Very wholesome.

A (9:29)

Yeah, well, you know, until I met his friends in Iowa, and the first thing that they said is, hey, you're from Chicago. Can you score us some heroin?

B (9:38)

Less wholesome.

A (9:39)

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, Fairfield, Iowa, there's not much to do there. There's farms and the Maharishi International University with, like, transcendental meditation and all that. So that's like all there is in Fairfield. So, yeah, that was a great first impression.

B (9:59)

Produce Kirithams heroin.

A (10:01)

No, I did not. I wouldn't even know. I wouldn't know how if I wanted to. Yeah, that's a little outside of my knowledge, but, yeah. So they'd had a couple successes prior to this album. This was actually their third studio album. This album sold more than 300,000 copies in its first six months, but it was not as popular as their previous album, Love God. At least here in the States.

B (10:36)

I have things to say because while I did not listen to this album when it came out, just the singles, I had listened to Love God before it and decided to, as we do on this show, dive deep into the history of the band. And boy, did I learn a lot, including connections to other bands that I would not have put together. But a lot of my background information that I'll be getting into here comes from a 2017 documentary film directed by Grant McPhee called Teenage Superstars, and it documents the Glasgow indie rock scene, which eventually morphed into something other than indie rock. But at the center of which were a couple bands that this show loves, including the Soup Dragons and the Jesus and Mary Chain, but a couple others as well. It's. It's an interesting history. Okay, first, we're gonna go back.

A (11:37)

How far back?

B (11:38)

Way back to the early 80s. Like 1982. 3. Somewhere in there in Bells Hill, Scotland. This is next mining community on the outskirts of Glasgow. A few schoolmates, one Sean Dixon, one Douglas T. Stewart, and one Norman Blake, are school chums who goof around together, hang out in one of their grandmother's living room living rooms a lot and make art, listen to music, trade music, play music, make goofy videos, and just are generally rambunctious teenagers together. Sean Dixon in Teenage Superstars is interviewed and talks about these early days. And he said, in Bells Hill, there were two things you did. You played football or you were a poof. I was a poof. So I made Music, okay. And one of the other guys interviewed in the band, I believe it was Douglas T. Stewart, said that he first noticed Sean Dixon. They didn't go to the same school. A couple of the guys went to a Catholic school. I believe Sean went to a Protestant school. So they didn't know each other. But he would see this guy walking down the street with a guitar case under his hand every Thursday night going to take guitar lessons, and decided that he needed to get to know that guy. Sean also said of his guitar lessons, when I was about eight, I was taught how to play classical guitar because I think that's how my mother and father kind of thought, well, that'll keep him busy. So every Thursday night he's going to learn guitar and missing Top of the Pops and being all bent out of shape about it, but. But it helped him craft his guitar skills. He was the only guitar player they knew, but eventually influenced these other guys to pick up guitars and start making music. They start collaborating on all kinds of goofy projects, running around town pretending to be from the BBC, interviewing people, mostly so they could pick up girls and just generally being goofballs. But these goofballs. Sean Dixon, who goes on to be the main singer and songwriter and guitar player of the Soup Dragons, Douglas T. Stewart, formed a lesser known band called the BMX Bandits, who are actually still active to this day, but playing very small bars and clubs. The third one, Norman Blake, went on to be the lead in Teenage Fan Club, which around the same time as the album we're talking about today came out. Teenage Fan Club had an absolutely massive and critical darling of an album called Bandwagon Esque. I think we may have missed the boat on that one and should have talked about that in the context of 1991, but here we are. These three bands, Teenage Fan Club, BMX Bandit and the Soup Dragons, along with the Vaselines, who were among Kurt Cobain's favorite bands, formed this Bells Hill sound or this Bell Hill scene because they didn't all have a lot in common, sound wise. When the Super Dragons started out, they sounded a lot more like the Buzzcocks. They were going for fast, energetic, post punk, really. The band started busking, going into Glasgow to play in the streets. And they met Jim McCulloch, another busker who ended up joining the Soup Dragons. And that was all good and fine, but Sean Dixon wanted to go bigger. 1985, they actually formed the Soup Dragons.

A (15:25)

Okay, you know the story about the name, right?

B (15:28)

I mean, I've read it, but I don't know the reference, but what do you got?

A (15:32)

In the 70s, there was a BBC children's television series called the Clangers. The Planner. Yeah, it was a stop motion animation series and there was a character called the Soup Dragon. According to the BBC's website, the soup Dragon lives underground and provides the soup that is a staple for the Clangers. That cleared that right up, didn't it?

B (15:59)

Yeah, I mean, we're gonna gloss over what a Clanger is entirely, but I'm comfortable with it and I like soup. So for my money, the Soup Dragon is probably the most important character in the show.

A (16:09)

I guess the Clangers were like mice or mouse, like creatures of some sort. They speak only in a whistled language and eat green soup supplied by the Soup Dragon. And blue string pudding.

B (16:22)

Makes perfect sense to me.

A (16:24)

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B (16:31)

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B (17:01)

Right, fast forward in 1985 when the soup Dragons form. Great quote once again from the documentary Teenage Superstars from Sean Dixon. How would I describe the Soup Dragons? The Soup Dragons were four friends who started a band, made some bloody great singles and had some great times. Those four friends were the aforementioned and much talked about so far. Sean Dixon, Jim McCulloch, Sushil K. Dade, an Asian Scottish fellow who was their bass player, and Ross A. Sinclair, the drummer, I believe.

A (17:38)

Correct.

B (17:39)

Okay, so as I mentioned, at first they were a Buzzcock inspired indie pop band. They recorded a flexi disc, you know the kind of. It's a flexi disc, it's a piece of flexible vinyl, oftentimes come in a magazine. But they recorded a flexi disc that cost them a whopping 35 pounds to record and it became the NME single of the week. We've talked about New Music Examiner, Influential Music magazine at the time. It became the single of the week. This £35 investment ended up getting them four pages of interview and article in NME dedicated to them. And it was entitled if you were the only girl in the world. It caught the eye of the legendary John Peel, who played them on his BBC radio show. And booked them for a peel session. The band played their first ever gig live show at Splash One in Glasgow, supporting Primal Scream. And you will recall from the Accelerated Culture podcast episode on Primal Scream's screamadelica, that Splash one was a club owned by Primal Scream. So opening for them at their own club was kind of a huge deal. And again, their single flexi disc cost them 35 pounds and sends them rocketing into the stratosphere of pop music.

A (19:05)

Money well spent, really. By the way, quick plug that episode on Primal Screams, Screammadelica, episode 4. 57 from January 2025. Check it out, man.

B (19:19)

January.

A (19:20)

That was January.

B (19:22)

Seems like yesterday. Okay. They signed to the subway organization in 1986. The first record, the first single they recorded, they didn't even want released. Sean Dixon didn't like the sound quality, but it was released anyways, which caused animosity between the band and that label. They broke through with their second single on that label, Whole Wide World. They made a video for £200. And as Sean describes it, it was a video of someone fondling Daffy Duck through a box with the band playing superimposed over it.

A (19:57)

What?

B (19:59)

I know, it's a bizarre. Yep, Duck toys in a box, pair of hands reaching through, just like grabbing and playing with the toy. And then the band is superimposed over it. It is one of the crappiest videos you would ever hope to see. 200 pounds seems maybe a lot for.

A (20:14)

That video, unless they spend it on beer.

B (20:18)

Right. It took an hour to make. And, yeah, a video show called the Chart show played it. That caught the eye of Jazz Summers, a music manager who had just recently gotten done managing Wham. This was the guy who had taken Wham to tour in China, which was kind of a huge moment in pop music. You remember?

A (20:40)

Oh, yeah, I do, I remember.

B (20:41)

Video Freedom. Yeah. He asked to manage the band. He gave them their own offshoot record label called RAW TV. And then in July of 1986, boy, we keep coming back to this moment in British rock history. The Soup Dragons single, Pleasantly Surprised, made the cut and was included on New Music Examiner's NME C86 cassette. Hugely influential cassette. That was a turning point. And broke several bands that we love into the big time, including Primal Scream, the mighty Lemon Drops, McCarthy, who we talked about just last episode. McCarthy was the band that gave rise to Stereo Lab. This then gave rise to a couple indie hits and UK singles success. And this was the point at which the band first started to change their sound. They went from this sort of Buzzcock's pop punk situation and then veered into psychedelia, which shaped the sound of their debut album this Is Our Art, which got released on Sire Records. They got into Acid House again, a common story in the UK in the late 80s, and then they lost their drummer. The drummer quit, they go back to Raw TV Records, their own label, and they started changing their sound and getting much, much more electronic. Another article that I will be referencing occasionally here from the quietest.com an article/interview entitled His Art. Shawn Dixon of the Soup Dragons interviewed from August 29, 2023 Interview by Michael Han so on Backwards Dog this was a single. They were trying to sound like both the Stooges and the Happy Mondays simultaneously, which is quite a feat. And Sean says, that was where I started to write a song in a different way. I would come up with concepts before I wrote the song, so I thought if I could have the drum beat of Salt and Peppers, push it, merge it with the Kinks and a Stooges vocal, I might come up with something interesting again. They had lost their drummer, but they're pressing on. So they get really into drum machines and samplers.

A (23:04)

After Ross Sinclair left, right before Love God, Paul Quinn came aboard as their replacement drummer.

B (23:13)

There we go. Yeah, because you can definitely hear that there is drum programming throughout on Love God and for sure on Hotwired, but there is also clearly some live drumming, although it also seems like a lot of the time that live drumming is then sampled and looped and it's all a sonic pastiche. What comes out of this sonic experiment with the drum programs and with samplers? A jam session where all the guys are just sitting around playing their guitars over this drum loop. It gets bigger and bigger. They start taking those guitars and sampling them. Sushil K Dade, their bass player could not even play the very complex bass part that they had come up with for this track. So they sampled his bass and then they play it on a keyboard. And the result, after a two day editing session to get this eight minute track down to a workable single is I'm Free. If you were alive in 1990, you absolutely remember that monstrous single. It was a sort of COVID although again, Sushil K Dade said it isn't a cover. It's a meditation on the Rolling Stones song I'm Free. It had this very cool sampled bass, but played on a keyboard. It had this rousing chorus. It had Junior Reed doing sort of dance hall reggae vocals over it, almost rapping really, but in a rub it up reggae style. At one Point, because they had gotten some success, as we've already talked about. They had a budget and they had spare recording time. They're like, you know what this needs? It needs a gospel choir. So they go to the Yellow Pages, look up gospel choirs, hire one, have to run their lyrics past the pastor in charge and change the lyrics, change the written lyrics to try to get them past him. Not that they were particularly racy, but he wanted the choir to be singing about God. And they're like, oh, yeah, we're singing about God. Not just about freedom and partying. The resultant single was absolutely monstrous and made the album that it was a part of Love God, just absolutely huge, inescapably huge. In 1990.

A (25:45)

Yeah. So Love God went to number 88 here in the States. I know it went a lot higher in the uk. And I remember at the time that that really got lumped in with the Madchester sound. Pretty sure the same way Primal Scream did. I guess you'd consider it baggy rather than Manchester.

B (26:03)

They were from Scotland, not England, and not from Manchester at all. So, yeah, not Manchester, per se. But, I mean, you listen to that track and you listen to the Happy Mondays and you're like, okay. There is a definite kinship there, Even if they didn't actually know each other. It's kind of in the same vein. Sean said about this. The people had said that the Soup Dragons had jumped on this indie dance bandwagon thing. We were still their little C86 band and they turned against us. You know, it was huge on mtv. It hit number five in the UK and it gave rise to an American tour. But they also, in the process got shunned in the uk and it's one of those things, you know, we talked about this in the past, but, like, it's so common. And it was. I was guilty of this in college, not with this band in particular, but where a band that you loved when they were coming up and they were scrappy underdogs and then they get huge commercial success, then people would be like, ah, they sold out and they dropped them. And apparently that really happened to them back home. They got shunned in the uk and the way I put it is, they got too big. It's like that Yogi Berra quote, but modified for bands. Nobody listens to them. They're too popular, right? Yep, they turned against us. So the best thing that we did is we just thought, sawd you. We'll go to America. So it was really refreshing to get away from it and go to a Country that just took us for what we were. And it seems like they really did embrace the popularity that they were enjoying in the States. Because if you look at the COVID art of the album that we are talking about today, 1992's Hotwired, it's a cartoony hand throwing up a peace sign, but that hand is fully made up in stars and stripes like it's an American peace sign. But all of this set the stage for huge US success. And that is what we're talking about today. The album that really went big in the States, 1992's Hotwired.

A (28:20)

Yes. So Hotwired peaked at number 97 on the Billboard 200. Not as popular as the previous album, Love God, which went to number 88. However, the singles, yes, the singles actually were their biggest to date. So I don't know quite how that works. I guess people are buying the singles and not the album or something. I don't know.

B (28:46)

I mean, it's 1992. People were buying CD singles, people were buying vinyl, singles were buying 12 inches. Cussingles plus radio airplay figured into those ratings.

A (28:58)

And yeah, True, Hotwired sold 300,000 copies in its first six months, which is nothing to sneeze at. A criticism, not just from listeners, but actually from the band members themselves, is it still doesn't really capture the live sound. The band are really known for their live shows, this kind of frenetic energy to their music. And it doesn't really come across in the albums, at least not this album.

B (29:27)

Yeah, I think that would probably put them in the same class as we were talking about, say, with Jesus Jones and Ned's Atomic Dustbin. But like, where their live show is, this storm of energy. Yes, it's got the samplers. Yes, it's got the sequencers and the drum programming, but you need the live energy to get you the full picture. Seem right?

A (29:50)

Yeah, yeah. That's a fair assessment.

B (29:53)

Fair enough.

A (29:54)

I don't have anything else to add.

B (29:56)

I think that's plenty.

A (29:59)

Well, Scott, that brings us to the track by track.

B (30:03)

Let's get into it.

A (30:04)

All right. Track one is one of the big hits off the album. This is called Pleasure.

C (30:11)

So keep on driving higher and never slow down. A silver sensation that sends you around. Everybody needs somebody else. Cause we all need to get a little bit of some pleasure. And everybody wants somebody else. Cause we all need to get a little bit of some pleasure.

A (30:54)

All right, so listeners, there's a very good chance you've probably heard that song before because it was the second single off of the album released in October of 92. You know, I'm embarrassed to say, as many times as I've listened to this album, I never picked up on where that sample at the very beginning comes from.

B (31:16)

Oh, dude, I have things to say.

A (31:19)

Okay, all right, all right.

B (31:21)

I. I'm not sure where the vocal sample at the beginning comes from, but I know I'm supposed to know it from somewhere. Is everybody ready? Well, all right. One, two, three. Like, starts off strong with Sean Dixon at his sampler going through old records. And I'm supposed to know that one. I don't. But what follows immediately after that is an unmistakable drum machine program of like the early. I want to say it's an 808. That. Yeah, it's one of those. You hear it, it's sped up from the original, but it just itches. That thing in your brain where you're just like, I know that. And it just takes a little bit of processing. And it's like. That is the weird drum machine opening of Blondie's Heart of Glass. Yeah, it's like such canned programmed beat with that weird little hi hat. That doesn't sound anything like a real high hat. It's this pur. Synthetic. Yeah, it's 100% heart of glass. And then this one I didn't know. What follows is the beat. The big drum program, and it's a kickass drum program, is from the Jam by Graham Central station in 1975. And I went down that rabbit hole and listened to that original track, the Jam. And they were not just boasting. That song is a goddamn funk jam par excellence, man.

A (32:53)

Nice.

B (32:53)

So good. And then you just get this big crunchy, clearly sampled and then looped guitar riff. You know, this is the formula. Like already in the first 30 seconds of this album you have the formula. And it can be a little formulaic, Will find, but the formula. That is why the big singles were huge singles. You've got the vocals that are alternating between Sean singing a line and then that huge guitar riff. It's just well crafted dance floor ready pop rock. And then the very sing alongable chorus where clearly they learned their lessons from that jam session that got them where they're like, let's get a gospel choir. Yeah, they learned that lesson and they're like, you know, we could use a couple backup singers. But you know what would be cooler is like 20 backup singers and it's just super sing alongable. And then plus not to get too crisp for walking about it, cowbell, you're not going to be mad about the cowbell man.

A (33:58)

All right, to be noted.

B (34:01)

I don't love the chorus. It's sing alongable, but I don't love the lyrics. There's just something really awkward about that because we all need to get a little bit of some pleasure. Like the little bit. And of some. And that, like, metrically, it's emphasizing the filler words of some pleasure. And like, I know it's nitpicking, but we're doing a deep dive on a pop song, so there's going to be nitpicking. Whatever. It's sing alongable. It's fun. I keep seeing the word sing alongable, which is not really a word. But it is now.

A (34:43)

I was going to say. Yeah, it is now.

B (34:45)

That would be my contribution to the English language. You're welcome, everybody.

A (34:50)

Now, you know what you pointed out about how the emphasis is maybe on non essential words in the meter. You clearly have never listened to anything that Stevie Nicks has written because she's notorious for that.

B (35:04)

Yeah, I'm too busy being fixated on that weird warble she has. But, yeah, no, I guess I've never picked it.

A (35:12)

Yeah. I will say some of the lyrics on some of these songs are a little simplistic. And I think that this is an example. But as you say, you know, it's easy to sing along to. And it really fits in with the whole acid house, ecstasy, peace and love kind of vibe that we were seeing in the early 90s rock music for.

B (35:35)

The dance club, where we're singing about good times and love. But let's also make it feel lofty.

A (35:42)

Right, There you go.

B (35:44)

Gonna say a lot about it, but we're gonna use words that make it seem deep or rather high. And I think that's an important distinction.

A (35:52)

Okay. All right.

B (35:54)

And, you know, later in the song, I'm gonna call it, a guitar solo comes in, but it's not a guitar solo. Like, Sean Dixon is a fine guitar player, but he's not trying to be Jimi Hendrix, if he ever was. He's just making riffs. Like, really crunchy, big, simple riffs. So a new riff comes in later. And you can tell listening to this song, they love T. Rex, they love Mark Bolan, they love T. Rex. And particularly with the second riff that comes in later and then those backup singers, just two or three female voices doing the in harmonies. It's textbook T. Rex, and I am here for it because I freaking love me some T. Rex.

A (36:40)

Okay, that's fair. Yeah, it's A good representative tune of not just the Soup Dragons catalog, but I think kind of what the music scene was in summer and fall in 92.

B (36:53)

Yes, accurate. Not going to change your world, but it is going to get you to shake your ass on a dance floor.

A (37:01)

A little bit of some pleasure.

B (37:03)

A little bit of some pleasure. It's just awkward.

A (37:07)

Yeah, I know, I know. Well, that's all I got on that one.

B (37:10)

That's plenty. That gets us to track two, which is the big one. The monster hit. Track two is Divine Thing.

C (37:21)

You are the one Hearts desire All hips and lips made to trick Just ain't fool I could have swore that you are an angel. Cause you're a sweet, sweet, sweet divine name But I should have known that you are the devil Dressed like a sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet divine.

B (38:09)

This is pretty much a perfect pop song. And it follows the same formula as track one, Pleasure before it. But anything that was awkward there, no ironed out. And it's perfect here. All right, so you've got your big simple guitar riff, a very simple vocal line, very sing alongable. That drum program, once again, it's got that kind of cowbell thing going. It's fast, it's danceable. And then that chorus, once again, clearly the lessons from I'm Free stuck. It's not a full on gospel choir, but it's close enough. It's a huge choir of backup singers. Gives it some soul. And once again, echoes of T Rex. And then there's just like the little touches like at the end of the chorus, a lot of the instrumentation drops out and there's just this crowd noise and then this break slamming. Oh man, like brings the dance floor to a momentary halt and then busts out again. Like, this track is just pure freaking fun, right?

A (39:22)

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

B (39:24)

Also like, for that matter, another piece of instrumentation that's going to keep coming up throughout the album. This western slide guitar bend. Like, again, they're really embracing Americana on this album. It fled to America. Or at least they're chilling in America. And they're embracing American rootsier sounds while still putting it in this British indie dance rave scene. And it's a great combination.

A (39:55)

You know, it's funny, one of our listeners I've mentioned before on the show, my friend Mike, who's in that band, 45 souls.

B (40:03)

Nice.

A (40:04)

He commented to me the other day, he gave me one of his band's CDs, but he said, you're not going to like it. I said, why not? He says, because it's got slide guitar and I know you don't like slide guitar, and he got that from listening to our podcast, so. But here, it doesn't have that kind of country vibe to it. It's a slide guitar, but I don't hate it.

B (40:25)

It's not steel pedal guitar where it's wailing and singing. It's just bending the chords. And, you know, it feels like a road trip through the American west, but, like, still a party, right?

A (40:38)

Yeah.

B (40:38)

You're not crying to it, you're dancing to it. And it works.

A (40:42)

As many times as I've heard this, Scott, I was today years old. Okay, this week, years old, when I finally learned that. That from the guitar, right?

B (40:57)

Like, it's a huge, major part of.

A (41:00)

The song, and it's Anarchy in the uk. I don't know how I never caught that before.

B (41:07)

Blew my freaking mind as well. I've been hearing this track since it came out, and it dominated the airwaves that summer. And, like, what? First of all, that's a sample. And, okay, you can listen to the song and you can be like, okay, these are not guitar riffs that are being played live. They were recorded. They were found the perfect take. They looped it. They use it over and over and over again. But like, that secondary guitar riff, I just assumed that was another one of theirs. And like, no, that's literally Anarchy in the UK by the Sex Pistols.

A (41:39)

What? Yeah. Steve Jones.

B (41:41)

Mind blown.

A (41:43)

So for those of you who think we know everything, we definitely don't because we're still learning things all the time.

B (41:48)

Wait, do people say that?

A (41:50)

Well, they say it about me.

B (41:52)

Oh, I have no doubt. Well, you're the professor.

A (41:54)

Oh, okay. All right, I'll accept that. So I actually have two different associations with this song. Our listeners know I've talked about this before. 90, 293. I was Assistant manager of a super trendy women's clothing store. And every morning in. This would have been 93. Every morning when I opened the glass doors to invite customers in, this was always the song that I played.

B (42:25)

Nice.

A (42:26)

It just as you're opening the doors, there's something about that. And then here come the doors. Yeah. So that was like my. My opening song.

B (42:34)

I'm going to assume that working in a trendy retail women's clothing store that you dressed for the job you both wanted and had.

A (42:46)

Oh, hell yes.

B (42:47)

Is there photographic evidence?

A (42:50)

I imagine there probably is somewhere.

B (42:52)

All right.

A (42:53)

Because, you know, they wanted you to wear the clothes that they sold.

B (42:58)

You're their best advertisement.

A (42:59)

Yeah, I mean, I had black Hot pants and thigh high boots and. Well, yeah, and I still enjoy dressing more as a costume rather than a. My students will tell you I still kind of get a little weird with my clothing from time to time, but I'll see if I can dig out some pictures.

B (43:19)

Sure.

A (43:20)

But then, do you remember Hellraiser 3? Hell on Earth?

B (43:25)

Yeah.

A (43:26)

Yeah.

B (43:27)

I had cable in the 90s.

A (43:29)

A lot of it takes place in, like, a dance club. And this song actually is in the soundtrack, and I think it's being played at one of the dance clubs.

B (43:39)

Nice.

A (43:40)

Yeah.

B (43:41)

Those are the two associations you had with it. Anything else?

A (43:45)

Just that this was the first single off the album. It was released on June 1st of 1992, and it became their highest charting single in the U.S. it reached number 35 on the Billboard top 40.

B (43:59)

Yeah. And it was regular rotation on MTV. And it's. It's a great song. Like, here's the thing. Sean Dixon is at times, not always, but at times a pure pop genius. And this is a pure pop single. Just as good as they get. Is it going to change your life? No. Is it fun to dance to? Oh, hell yes. And is it catchy? Oh, for sure. Like, what else do you want? Here's the thing. I had mentioned that the band had experienced a bit of a backlash back home that predated this album, but it continued. And I might say that if this Divine Thing was the first single and that the second single was Pleasure Track one, these songs are kind of very similar, are they not?

A (44:58)

They are. Yeah.

B (45:00)

Like, they are following the same formula and they are just plain similar. Not just in the pattern that they follow, but in the individual pieces that form that pattern. And I feel like that might explain why, as we'll talk about a little later, things didn't go super smooth for the band after this.

A (45:25)

All right, I do want to talk a little bit about the lyrics because this is a killer opening to the song. You are the one supreme being Just dress to kill and fulfill Just any.

B (45:38)

Dream that is great for opening your retail clothing store, by the way.

A (45:42)

You are yeah and you are the one heart's desire all hips and lips made to trick Just any fool nights but then we get to the second verse, and we're starting to find that. I'm assuming if it's all hips and lips, that it's. It's a gal, but, you know, you can't really assume. But when we get to the second verse and you lack the one thing that is devotion not always there in your hair In a daze Just too mixed up in your own emotions. Your vanity will always be your greatest thing. So maybe this person is a little bit self absorbed. I like it.

B (46:21)

Well, I mean, but that makes sense then, with the big chorus.

A (46:26)

Yeah.

B (46:27)

I could have sworn that you are an angel because you're a sweet, sweet divine thing But I should have known that you are the devil Dressed like a sweet, sweet divine thing. Like, yeah, she looks good, but she's kind of a nightmare.

A (46:42)

The old wolf in sheep's clothing kind of thing.

B (46:44)

They are. Yeah.

A (46:45)

Now, if I'm not mistaken, I think this video for this song was actually nominated for an MTV Music Video Award. It did not win. 92 was a good year for videos.

B (46:57)

Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

A (46:58)

But, yeah. So that's all I got to say about that.

B (47:02)

I feel like that's plenty.

A (47:04)

That brings us to track three. This one is called Running wild.

C (47:19)

You running wild through my street Running wild, you do as you please. I love it, child, things you say you're running wild every day and I love it, live it, love it when you're running wild.

B (47:54)

Another banger. Three in a row here.

A (47:57)

Yeah, no, this is a good one.

B (47:58)

Now, we didn't get this in the short sample, thank you very much, copyright law. But the song opens with a, like, rousing marimba intro. Sorry. Yeah.

A (48:16)

Which is, of course, Viva Las Vegas by the King. All right.

B (48:22)

And then there's haunting creaking string thing that happens and then. Which you can hear in the sample. You did hear this Adam and the Ants style Burundi drumming.

A (48:34)

Yes.

B (48:34)

Which is really just Burundi drumming. We probably shouldn't give Stuart Leslie Goddard too much credit there for his musical colonialism. That's Adamant's real name, Stuart Le Godard. But, like, controversial, that, you know, Adam and the Ants, as well as Bow Wow Wow and others around that time, picked up this African drumming style. And people were like, oh, my God, they're amazing musicians. It's like. Well, they kind of ripped that off, guys. But still, this is a decade later. Sean Dixon taking that lesson that Adam and, to a lesser extent, the Ants learned, and making it new, making it ready for contemporary dance floors. And, yeah, it. It's. It's a banger. And then also later, the harmonica. Because I don't have this album, so I don't have the liner notes, so I could not see the credits for this one. Whoever is playing that harmonica is just absolutely tearing it up, man.

A (49:33)

And it's like, it's not listed in the liner notes. I almost wonder if it's a sample.

B (49:39)

I would not be at all surprised, but, like, man, does it fit.

A (49:44)

Yeah.

B (49:44)

And it's a long sample.

A (49:46)

And, you know these three songs, I think. Well, at first, I think they kind of front loaded the album with, like, the three strongest songs.

B (49:54)

Yep.

A (49:54)

As we've talked about in the podcast before, a lot of times bands would do that knowing that radio A and R people would get past the first two or three tracks anyway. They all do have a very similar sound, especially in the chorus. Yeah.

B (50:13)

And again, it's that big, simple, crunchy guitar riff. Like, we're not going to do anything too complicated with a guitar. It's going to be a few big chords and it's going to be a compelling rhythm. But that's it. Sample it, loop it, call it.

A (50:28)

Good. I really enjoy this one. And I really appreciate the way that they move seamlessly from Viva Las Vegas to that tribal kind of drumming sound and then into the meat of this song and it's seamless, which is not easy to do.

B (50:50)

Yeah. And again, they're embracing the Americana between the slide guitar bends, between the harmonica and all that. Like, they're going for an American sound, but filtered through Glasgow. And it. It really works. Lyrics. Lyrics are not going to change your life again unless maybe they inspire you to go on to a debauch or a crime spree. But I got to say, the musical elements are compelling enough that I am considering either a debauch or a crime spree, but I'm, you know, I'm always mere seconds away from that anyways.

A (51:28)

Why not both?

B (51:29)

Yeah, no, it was a great idea this afternoon.

A (51:36)

You know, one last thing. You know, you pointed out how they were really kind of embracing American music and the Americana sound. I never realized that they were Scottish until the. Maybe 10 years ago.

B (51:50)

You knew UK for sure?

A (51:51)

Yeah, I did, but I didn't realize. And they don't really sound British either, you know, like some bands like Oasis. I mean, God, they sound so British, you know, but, yeah, these guys, not so much. Not to me.

B (52:09)

Yeah, fair enough. On those lyrics that aren't going to change your life, these are simplistic pop lyrics. Let's not kid ourselves. You're running wild in my dreams you're running wild. You know it seems that I need you, I want you, I'll take you, I'll have you. I love it, live it, love it when you're running wild. That's most of the song right there. And you know what? It's pop. You're looking for deep meaning in this one. It's a Song called Running Wild. You're not going to find it.

A (52:38)

Yeah, but it's a fun one. I like this one.

B (52:42)

I think it's every bit as good a track as Divine Thing is, only I have not heard it 10,000 times, so it's fresh. And I'm like. I'm kind of liking this one better. And again, the Adam and the ants Burundi drumming sound thing, I'm a sucker for that, even if it was musical colonialism.

A (53:02)

And I'm a sucker for Elvis. Something I bet you did not know about me. Scott, I am an Elvis fan.

B (53:10)

Same. And it doesn't surprise me. I gotta tell you, it fits. You're probably more motorcycle and blue Hawaii Elvis than white jumpsuit Vegas Elvis. Although people, Las Vegas is the track he's sampling here, so shut my mouth. All right, whatever. Yeah, I talked myself out of it. That'll do it. For that brings us to track four. Getting down.

C (53:39)

Everywhere you move Everything you choose.

B (53:48)

Has.

C (53:48)

A certain special player that's balanced by your hair, baby, this is true. There's no one just like you. Keep turning it on Keep turning it on Getting down.

B (54:21)

Okay, so you gotta give Sean Dixon credit. He knows how to craft a drum program and sample based sonic collage into a compelling song intro. And again, the sample that you accelerated culture warriors got is in the meat of the song later. The song opens with this sort of opening rush and this cool complex rock beat that almost borders on hip hop. These little bleeps and bloops and then all of a sudden are we on the bridge of the fricking USS Enterprise? Like that very distinct noise from Star the Original Series with a.

A (55:06)

Yep.

B (55:07)

Like it's awesome. I don't know what it's doing in there, but I am totally here for it. Sucker for a Star Trek reference.

A (55:17)

Well, and the ex husband that introduced me to this band was a member of Klingon Armada International, so.

B (55:25)

Fascinating.

A (55:27)

Yes. So we used to go. I actually had a Bajoran costume when we used to go to events and.

B (55:34)

Then that actually worked. I could see that working for you. Why Bajoran?

A (55:39)

Why not?

B (55:40)

I mean, is there something about the Bajoran mysticism that does it for you?

A (55:45)

Or there two words, Michelle Forbes.

B (55:49)

Well, that'll do it. Yeah.

A (55:51)

And I'm sure our listeners are probably like, I don't understand nerds. I think this one, the guitar riff reminds me of a Blur song. And that's not a bad thing, but I don't know which Blur song.

B (56:07)

I think there is also a specific Pixies song That it? Is it.

A (56:15)

Oh, Dig for fire.

B (56:17)

Yeah, it's got some of that too. Right?

A (56:22)

Yeah, I could see that. And that would have been 80. No, 90. 91. 91. Something like that. Yeah.

B (56:29)

I mean, Sean Dixon's influences were wildly diverse. They tended to be older than that. He was digging through stacks of records more than anything else. But, you know, it's not outside the realm of possibility in general. This song does not go as hard as the previous three. And it's more melodic. It has less of that let's go call and response thing. But melodic works. In this case, it's still a party track.

A (56:56)

Oh, absolutely. And once again, just this kind of elevated chorus where you have it sounds like a choir, you know, that really brings it, I think, to the next level. But other than those choruses, it's just really kind of a chill, mellow vibe, you know, this is maybe coming down after the previous three songs. You know, you were dancing your shoes off and now you just kind of. Yeah, yeah.

B (57:22)

And, you know, that's actually what it's about.

A (57:24)

Oh, is it?

B (57:25)

As well, if we dig into the lyrics. You're a disco queen, do you know what I mean? You get real attention just with a single mention and baby, there's no one Just like you keep getting down this is fluff, but it's enjoyable. Fluff. It's about dancing. It's for dancing. What else do you want?

A (57:49)

Right, so that brings us to track five. Forever yesterday what your love will always.

C (58:00)

Be can't for us to love and keep why don't you stop and you will see you always want it to be Forever Yesterday day Forever yesterday.

B (58:40)

Okay, so if the last track in its sonic collage intro just hooked me and tickled me with the Star Trek USS Enterprise bridge sounds, this one doubles down on it and then baffles me because there's just a little bit of something going on in the beginning. And then all of a sudden, like Star Trek Battle Station's red alert, that siren. And then what follows is a chill, meditative, relaxing, practically spa techno track. And it's a very jarring juxtaposition. Or rather it goes from put you at battle stations and then lull you with tranquil sounds to get a facial, too.

A (59:36)

But I like the way it ties into the Star Trek sounds from the previous song.

B (59:42)

Oh, once again, yeah. Star Trek sounds. I'm gonna be like, yes, I'm in. Even if I'm a little confused as to what they're doing there.

A (59:48)

In this case, it kind of reminds me, obviously, it's maybe five years or so early, but it reminds me a lot of Bittersweet Symphony. Who was. Was that the Verve or the Verve Pipe? I always get those two bands confused.

B (60:02)

That was the Verve.

A (60:03)

Okay.

B (60:03)

And, yeah, like, there are a lot of strings in this song and it does not sound like just keyboard synth strings. In the same way that for I'm Free, they're like, we gotta hire a gospel choir. And they went out and got one. Like, by this point, they had the money and the production time to do that. Did they hire a string section?

A (60:26)

I don't know. Again, there's nothing listed in the liner notes that reference any strings. So I was thinking perhaps a sample.

B (60:34)

This is a slower, less rocking song. And in the context of this, where he's singing these longer, more extended notes, rather than the sort of rousing, pump up the crowd rocker vocal deliveries, here it's more melodic, almost crooning. His voice is good. It's not classically strong. He's giving it that English pop delivery, you know. I think his strengths are in the. Maybe more energetic and lyrics with a bit of a push to him, you know. It's good. It's not great. And that's. I. I'm sorry, Sean, I do very much enjoy your work. I love you, man.

A (61:18)

Oh, and then there's that. It's hidden in the background, but you can hear it if you listen. It's like. It's like an old satellite type sound, you know, like they used to do on the evening news and stuff like that. But it's like you're receiving a signal. Right. Chair the groove.

B (61:39)

Yeah. And then you're also receiving a signal, but with very specifically guided meditation instructions. Let the sound vibrations you now hear resonate through your body. Breathing deeply and slowly. Like when I said earlier that this is practically spa techno. It's not a bust. Like, it's guided meditation. And yeah, we've talked in the past about the whole Manchester scene with the Hacienda, Primal Screams, Club Splash. One that. Yes. Whether it was Acid House or Baggie or actual Madchester, but where you've got these chemical fueled dance floors with people really going full on raving. There was also then the companion room, smaller, but the chill out room. And this is good chill out room music, man.

A (62:34)

Yeah.

B (62:35)

Much the same way that Primal scream had some orb influence in there that was good for. I Need a break from the Magnus. Out on the dance floor Hang out in the dark with trippy lights and drink some water and collect yourself. This is a good track. For that vibe.

A (62:53)

Although it does have that Americana sounding guitar riff, which kind of, I think, brings it slightly away from that, you.

B (63:02)

Know, I mean, I don't know. I. Primal Scream with the Orb did that bit where they were on the road trip and would actually have American AM radio sampled in the tracks. And I don't know, I think it works. It's still. It's still chill.

A (63:18)

Oh, yeah.

B (63:19)

Now the soundtrack, Red Alert, significantly less chill, but, you know, the DJ can start 20 seconds in.

A (63:26)

You really don't like that, do you?

B (63:29)

Oh, I love it. I just don't know what it's doing there.

A (63:32)

Sean doesn't have to explain his art to you.

B (63:34)

He does not. I. Who am I? I'm just. I'm just some guy who co hosts a podcast.

A (63:39)

Yeah.

B (63:40)

All right, next up is track six. No more understanding.

C (63:51)

Just got to see things in your own way. A way of the world Be peaceful Just gotta take hate time. Drive the pain just driving it higher and high. Just make it up your sky. You never ever want to go down.

A (64:29)

You know, I think maybe this is the one that reminds me of Blur.

B (64:33)

I could see that it's definitely got.

A (64:35)

That kind of psychedelic feel to it.

B (64:38)

Well, yeah. As we have firmly established at this point in the year and a half I've been on this podcast, I, scott free, am a sucker for some wah wah guitar. And the whole Madchester and baggy scenes were very reliable.

C (64:55)

Wow.

B (64:56)

Delivery systems and no more understanding. This song is a fine, if crunchier offering.

A (65:03)

W W Delivery systems. Okay, I like that.

B (65:06)

That's a great thing for an album.

A (65:08)

Yeah.

B (65:08)

Or a band that's copyrighted. Nobody take that. Yeah. This track wouldn't be out of place. Speaking of Manchester, this wouldn't be out of place on a Stone Roses record. Although it would be more off of Second Coming more than the self titled debut album. And this record predates that 1994 album by a full two years and change. But since time, at least as we experience it, is relatively linear, this probably wasn't inspired by the Stone Rose's second coming.

A (65:44)

I think this song would be right at home at Woodstock. I mean, obviously not this band, but I could see, you know, one of the old Woodstock bands playing this. It would have just fit in just as nicely in 69 as in 92.

B (66:03)

For me, it's a yes, but I would put the clock forward a few years more likely. At least in my mind. Sean Dixon is drawing on his love of Alex Chilton's Big star. Okay, yeah, obviously the crunchier power poppier stuff rather than the softer, smoother pop stuff. But like, yeah, especially again, that big guitar riff. It's well documented that Sean Dixon did love Big Star and that Alex Chilton eventually ended up hanging out a lot in Glasgow. So there was a lot of love there between those scenes. But, yeah, I feel there's some influence there, for sure.

A (66:45)

Well, I didn't know that about Alex Chilton. Yeah. And the bass on this one is really strong, I feel like. I know I talk about bass a lot and I haven't really talked about it on this album, but the bass line in this one really kind of. It does it for me.

B (67:00)

Yeah. Respect to Sushil K Dade. He was an, I think I mentioned briefly, Asian Scottish musician. And it was the previous album, I Want to say Love God, that actually put him on the map as the first Asian Scottish musician to hit. Yeah. As part of a group, certainly. But, like, this was a big deal and apparently he got a lot of love from and provided a lot of inspiration to other Asian Scottish musicians who were like, oh, it's possible.

A (67:34)

That brings us to track seven. Dream on. Solid gone.

C (67:45)

Just close your eyes.

A (67:49)

And.

C (67:49)

The world will disappear as your lips reach mine it just feels like heaven Just solid gone Last forever Dream on Eternal love is never enough.

A (68:23)

So I know. Scott, we've said that some of the songs on this album are kind of formulaic, and this song is no exception. But when the formula works, it really, really works.

B (68:35)

And yeah, it's a pretty straightforward but solid formula. Take a simple classic rock or glam rock style guitar riff, a straightforward but not too simple drum pattern that you can dance to, fun lyrics that are about love and partying on a simple melody that you can sing along to. Throw in some T Rex style backup singers. And Bob's your aunties live and love her. You've got a good pop song.

A (69:07)

Who is that? That used to say that was that Phil.

B (69:09)

That was Bill James.

A (69:11)

Yeah.

B (69:12)

I love it.

A (69:13)

First time he said that to me. Bob's your auntie's living lover. And I'm like, It took me a second. Bob's your uncle.

B (69:19)

That's right. Lyrically, as I mentioned, about love and partying, but also make it elevated or like, you know, it's gotta have some next level hook to make it seem like we're not just partying, but we're partying with like spiritual purpose or something. So, like, I heard you came from a planet on a starship Just for me that's when I closed my eyes Just solid gone Last Forever. Eternal love is never enough. Just dream on. And it's like, dude, I don't even know what you're talking about. But it doesn't matter because it's fun and it's love and it's. But, like, next level, spiritual, outer space love. Okay, sure. Great fun. Yet you're not gonna find the meaning of life in every pop song. That's what Stereo Lab is for.

A (70:24)

Definitely not going to find the meaning of life in a Soup Dragon song.

B (70:26)

Probably not going to do that.

A (70:28)

No, no.

B (70:29)

Not what it's for. And if it is, it's because of the MDMA that you took on the dance floor. And don't do drugs, kid. Stay in school.

A (70:39)

You know, I want to make up some buttons that say, don't do drugs, kids. Stay in school. And then put accelerated culture on it.

B (70:45)

Perfect.

A (70:46)

Yeah. All right, next track is yours.

B (70:49)

All right, that track is track 8. Everlasting.

C (71:11)

This could be so everlasting and this could be like nothing else this could stay in seven heaven this will always be Forever now Forever now.

B (71:43)

Yeah. If there was any doubt about the influence that Big Star had on Sean Dixon and on the Super Dragons, let's put that to rest, because huge, big, big star vibes here for sure.

A (72:00)

Well, you know, that guitar intro definitely reminds me a lot of T. Rex or possibly the Rolling Stones.

B (72:08)

Sure. I'm willing to go with any of those.

A (72:10)

All right.

B (72:11)

You know, it's straightforward. Once again lyrics, simple. This could be some everlasting and this could be like nothing else and this could be in seventh heaven this could always be forever now like, it's simultaneously meaningless and aspirational. And, you know, who doesn't want everlasting love Forever now In seventh heaven? Who doesn't want that?

A (72:43)

Yep. Now on this song, I think you can start to hear the limitations of Sean's vocal range.

B (72:49)

It's unkind, but not untrue.

A (72:51)

Well, I mean, that's not disparaging him at all. I mean, when we look at a lot of the other bands that were really big around this time, I mean, Shawn Rider, Happy Mondays.

B (73:01)

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

A (73:01)

That guy can't sing.

B (73:03)

Nope.

A (73:03)

But his music is fucking brilliant, right?

B (73:06)

Yeah.

A (73:07)

And I think that that falls into this category, and I think that some of this maybe originated in the late 70s, early 80s with that whole DIY ethos that came up with the punk movement. And you didn't have to be a good singer to succeed on the scene. And I think that that kind of continued a little bit into the 90s dance rock scene.

B (73:30)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (73:32)

Okay.

B (73:33)

That's it.

A (73:34)

That's it.

B (73:34)

That's it.

A (73:35)

That's it. All right, so next up, Scott, we have absolute heaven.

C (73:45)

When your river has run dry Got you. You always want to be in heaven with me? I've been looking for something.

B (74:06)

To take.

C (74:07)

You out of your mind but, baby, there ain't nothing that I can hide? Find? I can't find? I can't find? I can't find.

B (74:28)

All right, so it's a sadder, slightly slower one, but still in a big, inspiring gospel choir sort of way. And it's another one in the slower groove with Sean doing a less swaggering, more crooning melodic mode, which, again, two in a row here, not necessarily a strong suit, but he's doing yeoman work. It's in service of the song. And the chorus comes in and the whole thing goes bigger. Choir adds a lot.

A (74:59)

Yeah. That I've been looking for something to take you out of your mind but, baby, there ain't nothing I can find. You're right that this song maybe takes a little bit of a darker turn. You're crying for so long it looks like you'll always be and you've been lying for so long In a sea of a thousand tears. So it's an interesting juxtaposition, I think, between the lyrical content and the tone of the music where it. It's a little bit happier.

B (75:30)

Well, yeah, it's less partying. And what are you going to do when your river runs dry? And why do you want to be in heaven with me? Like, this is less the I love you, baby. Our love is cosmic and it's gonna. We're gonna conquer everything together here on the dance floor thing. And this is more questioning and darker and goes with the slower paced song. And it's a sadder song. But still, again, that choir really lifts it up and makes it feel like, oh, no, it's great.

A (76:05)

Yeah.

B (76:06)

If there's despair.

A (76:07)

Yeah, I agree. I feel like we don't have a lot to say about these last few tracks.

B (76:13)

Okay, here's the thing, and I think you touched on it, where we had the album really front loaded with three full on bangers. Whether it was to get the A and R reps and radio folks to take notice of these songs and make them the big singles. And there is some of the formula that we were talking about. I'm not saying we're in the filler section of the album, but I am saying this is not always the strongest work with the most to dig into.

A (76:45)

Yeah.

B (76:45)

Yeah.

A (76:46)

Yeah. And if I'm not mistaken, I think I read somewhere that they had actually written most of these songs before they went into the studio to record. Unlike their previous albums, where a lot of the writing was done in the studio.

B (77:00)

I'm willing to believe it.

A (77:02)

You're willing to believe a lot that I say?

B (77:04)

Yeah. You seem credible to me. Okay, well, then let's move on to track 10. Everything.

C (77:15)

You are, everything you elevate in a special way you tell me night and today you are everything you are everything I never was I and there was she she is a hope insanity but the wonderful, most wonderful thing that ever will be.

B (78:02)

I mean, you just played the chorus and the lyrics to it are hilarious to me.

A (78:10)

Okay, how so?

B (78:12)

And there was I and there was she. She is a hopeless case of insanity but the wonderful, most wonderful thing that ever will be.

A (78:22)

Aw.

B (78:23)

Yeah. I'm pretty sure I dated her.

A (78:25)

I think. I'm pretty sure I dated her too.

B (78:29)

They're typical pop lyrics about love and about the ladies, but, like, you know, again, kind of lofty. Going for deep, but you don't want to analyze them too hard.

A (78:42)

This one, even though he's still kind of following the formula that he's established, some of the other tracks seem like they're very cookie cutter to me. And this one, not so much. This one, I think he's kind of exploring a little bit with like different phrasing and stuff like that. So it's a little bit different. I mean, I. I enjoy this one. This is a. Yeah, this is a good one.

B (79:03)

Fine track.

A (79:04)

Yeah.

B (79:05)

And that's all we have to say about it. I mean, we're really making short work of this, but. All right. You know, I think the strongest work was front loaded on the first half of the album. And it's good. This is a fine track. But once again, if these are pop songs and the lyrics aren't giving us a whole lot to dig into and. Okay, this deviates a bit from the formula, or at least is a twist on it on a more midtepo, faster, mid tempo song. But, you know, what can we say that we haven't already said? I don't know, let's say it on this next track.

A (79:46)

Okay. The next song is called Sweet Layabout.

C (80:02)

Well, hallelujah, why don't you sit there in your chair? Cause you ain't nothing but the devil's clown tail and all of the things that you say and that you do.

B (80:25)

Turn from the opening guitar riff. My notes are, wait, did we take a Turn into a spin doctor's record. Like, it's kind of Little Miss can't be Wrong. And I'm not saying he cribbed it, but, you know, there's something in the air in the early 90s, I guess. Again, this is pretty much the pop dance rock formula that we've been hearing throughout, with some deviations from it.

A (81:01)

I think this one's a little bit harder than some of the other tracks. I think the guitar in particular.

B (81:07)

Sure. But then there's also a big horn thing.

A (81:10)

Yeah.

B (81:10)

Big trumpets. And, you know, for me, it's that. The big hook lyrically, yeah. They just go for the doot doot dudes and, you know, it's pop record. What do you want? Because you ain't nothing but a no good layabout all the things that you say and all the things that you do all right, that's funny. That is actually funny. I mean, normally I would raise an eyebrow at the, you know, big hook in the chorus lyrically being do do do do do do do but he came by honestly. It was repetition of the things you do do do do do do do do so count it. I'm giving it clever.

A (81:56)

All right, all right.

B (81:58)

It's got the structural formula we've been talking about, but there is a deviation in this one that I really enjoy. There is a breakdown at the 2 minute and 34 second mark, and it is hot stuff. All of the guitars and the horns drop out. It's just a big beat and everybody Sean. And then the backup singers chanting, how the hell do you get around? You're just a sweet layabout. And, yeah, the song takes a turn. It's a great little breakdown and I enjoy the hell out of it.

A (82:31)

And that word layabout, that is such a British word.

B (82:35)

True, indeed.

A (82:37)

Yes. You don't really hear Americans saying layabout very much.

B (82:41)

Yeah, no. Then like, towards the end, the song actually ends with a fade out. We've talked about how sometimes I have issues with fade out. Sometimes they make sense, but whatever, the song has a fade out. But during the fade out, a female vocalist really starts going for it. And, like, she's really wailing. And, you know, I'm not saying Pink Floyd, Dark side of the Moon that level, but, like, you can tell there's a real vocal performance happening in there, and it fades out on her just as she's getting going, and it's just like, no, don't fade out. I want to see where this is going.

A (83:16)

Yeah, yeah. There's also a guitar Riff later in the song that I put in my notes. Reminiscent of there's no Other Way by Blur.

B (83:26)

Sure. Blur, whose debut album Leisure, we talked about in Accelerated culture podcast episode.

A (83:37)

63.

B (83:38)

I almost got that. 63. Yeah. All right. Good episode. Worth a listen. Yeah. Yeah.

A (83:44)

All right, well, Scott, we got one track left.

B (83:47)

That brings us to the final track. Track 12. Mindless.

C (84:04)

I love the way you send me down into the unknown and I love the way you take me to places I don't know when you're kissing me Kissing me, kissing me Kissing me Out of Mindless over you My west over you.

A (84:39)

This song is not going to win any awards, but I think by the time that you've reached track 12, you're so stoned that you don't really care.

B (84:51)

Yeah. So we've had some tracks on this album that feature some supplemental slide guitar. Right. And you already said historically, you have not particularly cared for slide guitar. But within the context of the rock here in the Americana and it's more party and less whaling country that you were allowing it to, enjoying it somewhere in there. But here, it's the star of the show on Mindless. It is a slide guitar song, and every bit of guitar is sliding and bending. How does that work for you?

A (85:28)

I think it's a little much. Well.

B (85:32)

Oh, fair enough. I asked the question. Yeah. All right. So here, I think, is maybe part of the problem and maybe part of why Soup Dragons fell off a little bit is we've talked about the formula, and if it worked once, maybe it'll work again, and maybe if we just do more of it. I think in the case of the gospel choir or big, not quite gospel choirs, great slide guitar works when it's supplemental. When it is the whole damn show, it's like, I feel like you've gone to this, well one time too far. Lyrically, this one. I mean, the big line is, when you're kissing me I'm mindless over you and if I'm honest, that is the only bit of the lyrics that I bothered to transcribe, and I had to transcribe them because I go to YouTube Music. That's where I listen to it. If I don't actually own the album, and I don't own this album, you and I will oftentimes go to the lyrics transcription websites to get the lyrics, and they do not appear anywhere on the Internet that we could easily find. And, like, it's almost like the whole Internet and streaming services were just like, you know what? Don't worry about the Lyrics. It's not important. Just listen to the damn pop song. Maybe you should just dance instead.

A (86:56)

This one, though, I don't know how you could dance to it. It's.

B (86:58)

It's more of a swaying at the end of the night thing. Yeah, the lights are coming up and they're, you know, telling you to get out. Yeah, I don't know.

A (87:08)

And I think this is the longest song on the album, too. Isn't it?

B (87:12)

Coming in at 4:56. Yeah, I'll say. Yes, it is, in fact. Nope, nope, sorry. Track six has two more seconds on it.

A (87:20)

Oh, does it?

B (87:21)

Oh, what are you gonna do? Well, then that is it for this album.

A (87:29)

Yes.

B (87:30)

And then what happened?

A (87:32)

Well, the band went on to record one more studio album called Hydrophonic with an asterisk.

B (87:39)

So what happened? As I said, Scotland got sick of them. They stayed in the US for a couple years and toured extensively on Hotwired. But as happens, with meteoric success, even if it took a few years, the band kind of started running into trouble. Some of the excesses of stardom. Sean got pretty deep into substance abuse, although it was mostly, as he says, margaritas were his drug of choice. He was drinking a bottle of tequila a night.

A (88:14)

Ew.

B (88:15)

And that is when the wheels fell off the band. Yes. The band released a fourth album, Hydrophonic *, but not before Jim Sushil and Paul quit the band. Sean came home to a letter from the band that told him they were done with his shenanigans and they were quitting the band. Yeah. So he did not have the three other members of the band who he had been working with for years on this one, but he did have a slate of guest stars.

A (88:46)

Yeah. So Bootsy Collins.

B (88:49)

If you need a bass player, you could do way worse than Bootsy.

A (88:53)

Then we also had Linval Golding and Neville Staples from the Specials and Funboy 3. Tina Waymouth, the best known from Talking Heads and Tomtown Club or Shall Scottish Chamber Orchestra.

B (89:07)

Well, sometimes you just gotta call up a string section.

A (89:11)

Right, right. And then also the Kickhorns. They're a horn section from London and I'm pretty sure we've mentioned them before, haven't we, Scott?

B (89:21)

I believe we did. In the context of the stereo MCs connected just a couple episodes ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (89:30)

A lot of callbacks to our previous episodes.

B (89:32)

Everybody should be going back and listening to the whole back catalog. Let's break half a million downloads.

A (89:37)

We're almost there. Anyway, Hydrophonic, by all accounts, was pretty much critical in commercial flop.

B (89:46)

Bit Of a dud.

A (89:47)

Yes, it didn't chart anywhere. And so that pretty much marked the end of the Soup Dragons, at least for a while.

B (89:58)

Sean Dixon closed up shop on that one and pursued a new direction. He started a new band. So this going back to that interview with Sean dixon from the quietest.com he talks about the years following the breakup. I started the High Fidelity, which I thought was a fantastic band, but we couldn't get our heads above water because I was Sean Dixon of the Soup Dragons. So I had all that to deal with. It got to 2000 and I came out as gay and the High Fidelity exploded. Yes, I tried to kill myself. Yes, I was put in a mental unit for a while. I lost everything. I lost my home and I lost my friends because people took sides. And then I met a man and it saved my life. And now he's my husband and I did the thing I said I'd never do. I moved to London.

A (90:51)

Oh wow.

B (90:52)

He the husband said, this could give you so many more opportunities in life and you'll have somebody to look after you. My daughter had just been born and my ex wife and her moved to Brighton so I was closer to them as well.

A (91:05)

Oh wow.

B (91:06)

He, after a while not making music, pivoted once again and came in 2018 with the release of his album featuring ft period as hi Fi Shawn. And this was clubbier music from what I've read. Got to admit, I haven't heard it, but the album featured a lot of guest appearances from Yoko Ono, once again, Bootsy Collins, Paris Gray, Dave Ball, Alan Vega, David McAlmont. And Dixon is now much more self assured and content in who he is. He is not chasing anything. He's just making music and enjoying his life. Much more comfortable with living his life honestly, especially now that he has come out.

A (92:03)

So you weren't exaggerating when he said he was a poof?

B (92:07)

Yeah. When? Back in Bells Hill in high school when he was saying you either played football or you were a poof, as it turns out. And he didn't even know it at the time. Yeah.

A (92:18)

The other band members went their separate ways. Paul Quinn, the drummer, became a member of Teenage Fan Club who you mentioned earlier. The other guitarist, Jim McCullough joined a band called Superstar and he also formed a folk group called Snow Goose. Sushil K Dade formed a post rock group called Future Pilot AKA and I know you're really into post rock so I don't know if you know them or not.

B (92:49)

Let's not get carried away with super into, but yeah. Okay.

A (92:52)

Okay.

B (92:54)

So after their various separate journeys and personal growth, the band did reconcile. They started talking, and in 2023, released their first single in a lot of years. Love Is Love. There's a threat of a new album. Haven't seen anything about that yet, but, hey, man, Soup Dragons. Together again.

A (93:21)

Yeah, it would have been 29 years.

B (93:23)

That's a lot of years.

A (93:24)

That's a lot of years. Okay, so, Scott, you know what I'm going to ask. What's your favorite track on the album?

B (93:32)

Yeah, that one's easy for me. For once, it's track three, running Wild. Once again, that rousing drum track. Yeah, that track is a banger, and I'm all for it.

A (93:44)

All right. I almost chose Running Wild.

B (93:47)

It's a great one.

A (93:48)

But I'm gonna go with Divine Thing just because of my memories of working in retail and looking good and feeling the vibes when the store opens. So. Yeah. And it was their most popular song for a reason, you know, True that.

B (94:06)

That was where the formula really peaked. And everything else could be argued to have been maybe a slightly paler imitation of it.

A (94:16)

I have not asked you yet. Yes. What is the topic of our next episode, Scott?

B (94:21)

Okay. It's lesser known, but, oh, man, it is such a good album.

A (94:27)

Okay.

B (94:28)

It is the debut album from Canadian power pop legends Sloan, and the album is entitled Smeared. Yeah. Halifax band that later relocated to Toronto. If you have ever listened to CBC music, you've almost certainly heard Sloan. And I, having grown up in Detroit with Windsor right across the river, listen to a lot of CBC music in my time. Sloan is a grossly underappreciated band in the States, but are a huge band in Canada. And this album, Smeared, as a debut, is ridiculously good. They've already hit their stride on their first offering. It's smart, it's funny, it rocks, it's sometimes sensitive. I think you're going to enjoy this album.

A (95:27)

Oh, okay. I've heard of Sloan, but I can't say that I've ever heard any of their music. So I'm looking forward to listening to something new.

B (95:36)

All right, we will be back in two weeks talking about Smeared by Sloan.

A (95:43)

It's a goodbye from me, Lori, and.

B (95:45)

From me, Scott Free. We'll see you back here in two weeks.