Episode 79: Sugar’s “Copper Blue” (1992)

Summary

Accelerated Culture Podcast: Episode 79 Sugar’s “Copper Blue” (1992)
Air Date: March 20, 2026
Hosts: Lori & Scott Free

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Episode Overview

In this vibrant deep-dive, Lori and Scott Free turn their attention to Sugar's landmark 1992 album, Copper Blue. Exploring Bob Mould’s journey from hardcore legend (via Hüsker Dü) to power-pop craftsman, the hosts dissect the album’s unique blend of melodic pop and crunchy rock, its influences, legacy, and the deeply personal stories at its core. With humorous banter, music nerd detail, and thoughtful analysis, this episode serves both longtime fans and newcomers to Mould’s work.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bob Mould’s Career Arc & Context [07:44–16:38]

• From Hüsker Dü to Sugar:

  • Bob Mould's formative years detailed, including his start at Macalester College in St. Paul, MN, where he co-founded Hüsker Dü. The band quickly became hardcore favorites, known for their speed, distortion, and brevity ("two to three minute long songs and mostly with a ton of distortion and shouted and sung vocals" – Scott, 09:54).
  • Hüsker Dü’s influence on alternative music highlighted by their impact on acts like the Pixies and Nirvana ("Nirvana also cited them as a huge influence" – Lori, 07:41).

• From Sonic Fury to Songcraft:

  • Post-Hüsker Dü, Mould’s solo work (notably Workbook, 1989) marked a stylistic shift to more melodic, contemplative songwriting.
  • Formation of Sugar in 1992 after Mould, tired of solo touring, gathered bassist David Barbe and drummer Malcolm Travis to make a new power-pop oriented band.

2. The Making of Copper Blue [20:50–23:42]

• The Band’s Genesis:

  • Band name inspiration: came from a sugar packet at Waffle House before their first Athens, GA show ("That's as good a name as any" – Lori citing Mould’s memoir, 20:50).
  • Copper Blue recordings began immediately after their debut gig, encountering technical challenges (especially with bass intonation), but resulting in perseverance that shaped the album’s tight, energetic sound.

• Production & Sound:

  • Produced by Lou Giordano.
  • Emphasis on power pop—melodic hooks, grounded by thick, crunchy guitars: "We just decided to sit down and write a bunch of pop songs and put a hard edge to it." – Bob Mould (Scott quoting Mould, 24:07)

3. Influence Flow—From Mould and Back Again [25:52–27:19]

• The cyclical nature of influence between Hüsker Dü, Pixies, Nirvana, and Sugar traced by both hosts ("...this is that Ouroboros thing that you were talking about, Scott... Huskerdu. Bob Mould influenced Nirvana and then in turn Nirvana influenced Bob Mould in his new band, Sugar." – Lori, 25:55).
• Copper Blue seen as riding the wave of grunge’s mainstream breakthrough, while maintaining its melody-first, pop-forward heart.

4. Track-by-Track Deep Dive

4.1 "The Act We Act" [27:24–32:54]

• Key Points:
  • Bold opener, mixing Hüsker Dü’s power with new melodic layers.
  • Features lush Beach Boys-inspired harmonies and extended guitar solos.
  • Notable quote: "It's hard, but it's also lush... and that's a really rare balance." – Scott, 29:37.
  • Mould on meticulous vocal layering: "Making double, triple, sometimes even sextuple... layers. Then I'd start on the harmony vocals. This was before Pro Tools, so I do it over and over until it was perfect." – Bob Mould (via Lori, 30:25).

4.2 "A Good Idea" [32:56–39:26]

• Pixies homage, both in bassline and guitar work, albeit unintentionally: "I simultaneously laughed and gasped at the horror of having accidentally pilfered Kim Deal's bass line." – Bob Mould (read by Lori, 35:00).
• Lyrics reveal a murder narrative, darkening the poppy arrangement: "Man, it's a pop song about murder. And you can go 34 years not realizing it's about murder at all." – Scott, 38:48.

4.3 "Changes" & "Helpless" [39:41–46:41]

• "Changes": First UK single with grunge parallels ("If I had heard this on the radio... I would have assumed it was a Seattle band." – Lori, 40:31).
• "Helpless": Direct nod to Cheap Trick’s "Surrender" and classic power pop structure.

4.4 "Hoover Dam" [46:45–52:20]

• Sonically rich with Beach Boys/Left Banke baroque-pop and Beatles-esque flourishes: "It incorporated several touchstones of my days as a student of 60s pop music." – Bob Mould (read by Lori, 49:06).
• Lyrics blend personal crisis and sweeping metaphor; sometimes (mis)interpreted as a suicide song, but deemed "a songwriter song, not a confessional" by Mould (51:02).

4.5 "The Slim" [52:28–58:37]

• Deals sensitively with AIDS loss, a first hint at Mould’s sexuality in his music.
• Mould on being a closeted gay man during the Reagan era: "Here I am, 20 years old, sexually aware but not out, confused, sometimes self-hating, with a president who cannot name the disease that may or may not kill me or my friends." – Bob Mould (55:34–56:20, NPR clip played by Lori).

4.6 "If I Can’t Change Your Mind" [59:05–64:55]

• The album’s standout, most recognizable single; bouncy, melodic ("This song is just goddamn perfect in my book." – Scott, 60:21).
• Video included subtle coming-out cues before Mould was outed by Spin magazine; lyrics and presentation intentionally gender/sexuality-neutral for universality (see Quietus interview quote at 63:49).

4.7 Closing Tracks: "Fortune Teller," "Slick," "Man on the Moon" [66:11–75:49]

• "Fortune Teller": Return to basics, classic break-up motif.
• "Slick": Narrative of a car accident victim; musically less compelling to Lori.
• "Man on the Moon": Lyrically nebulous, likened to a lullaby—"hard rock Goodnight Moon" (Scott, 75:05).

5. Legacy & Aftermath [75:49–80:08]

• Copper Blue is Bob Mould’s best-selling album and was NME’s 1992 Album of the Year.
• Follow-up: 1993’s dark EP Beaster; 1994’s File Under: Easy Listening; Sugar then went on a long hiatus until 2025.
• Recent activity: Sugar’s 2025 single "House of Dead Memories" and upcoming album/tour.
• Copper Blue reissued on “Citrus Echo” vinyl in Feb 2026.
  • "Sugar is timeless, hard power pop. And Sugar has announced that there will be a new album this year and have announced a slew of tour dates for this year." – Scott, 78:27.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the continuing influence between bands:
  "It’s this sort of ouroboros of bands influencing each other and then coming back and influencing the guy who influenced them. And I just freaking love that." – Scott, 18:08

• On Bob Mould’s vocal production:
  "Making double, triple, sometimes even sextuple... layers. Then I'd start on the harmony vocals. This was before Pro Tools, so I'd do it over and over until it was perfect." – Bob Mould, via Lori, 30:25

• On the Pixies connection in "A Good Idea":
  "I simultaneously laughed and gasped at the horror of having accidentally pilfered Kim Deal's bass line." – Bob Mould, via Lori, 35:00

• On being a closeted gay artist in the 80s:
  "Here I am, 20 years old, sexually aware but not out, confused, sometimes self-hating... with a president who cannot name the disease that may or may not kill me or my friends." – Bob Mould (NPR, 55:34–56:20; played at 55:19)

• On the universality of song lyrics:
  "I really wanted it to be accessible to everyone on an emotional level... Years later I knew much better. But at the time, I wasn't comfortable being a spokesperson." – Bob Mould, via Quietus (63:49)

• On Copper Blue becoming NME Album of the Year:
  "I understood the gravity of it being their 1992 album of the year. I kind of like his recognition that 17 year old him would be freaking out at this." – Scott, 76:40

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [07:44] – Hüsker Dü’s formation and impact
• [16:38] – Transition to solo career and eventual birth of Sugar
• [20:50] – Sugar’s name origin and early days
• [23:42] – Recording process for Copper Blue
• [27:24–75:49] – Track by track deep dive (see above for individual track start times)
• [75:49] – Album’s legacy, follow-up releases, and recent (2025/2026) events

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Tone & Style

The episode is casual but knowledgeably enthusiastic, filled with deep musical analysis (with Scott often nerding out about harmonies, production, and 90s music lore) and plenty of playful, self-aware humor. Lori often provides grounding with quotes from Mould’s memoir and sharp, personal insights into the music’s impact and cultural context.

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Useful for Newcomers?

Absolutely - the episode offers essential biographical context, musical influence mapping, lyrical interpretation, and cultural/queer history. It both hooks listeners new to Sugar and fills in the deeper musical and historical significance for existing fans.

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Want more? Visit AcceleratedCulturePodcast.com.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome to the Accelerated Culture podcast. A sonic journey through the vibrant and revolutionary sounds of the 1980s and 1990s. And now 2024 Webby Honoree for best indie podcast. I'm Lori, along with my co host Scott Free. And in this podcast we explore how new waves stormed the airwaves in the early 80s and and gave way for the rise of alternative music in the 90s. Find us on the [e-mail].

[B]

Hello and welcome back to the Accelerated Culture Podcast. I am Scott Free.

[A]

And I'm Lori.

[B]

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 79. We'll tell you what episode 79 is all about shortly, but let's get through the pleasantries. Laurie, how we doing?

[A]

We're doing good, thanks, Scott. Just been super, super busy with work and with life, you know, I gotta pay for this podcast somehow. And how are you doing? You sound a little bit hoarse to me.

[B]

I am. Maybe not 100%, have been a little bit sick for the last few days, but the show must go on and it's giving my voice that sort of basy vocal fry timber that the kids all love these days.

[A]

Cool. So Scott, what have you seen? What have you done?

[B]

I have seen so many things in rapid succession. Saw so many live shows. I saw Ralph Schmerberg, I saw Rajia Sultan, of course. I saw Madan Gopal Singh and the Char Yar Ensemble, of course.

[A]

Why wouldn't you?

[B]

And of course, who could forget Nagib Shem Bezade and the master drummers of Rajasthan? Okay, if it's not entirely clear, I spent a couple of weeks in India with friends and among other things, we went to Sufi Music Festival, the Sacred Spirit Festival, seeing instrumental and vocal and percussion acts from around India and the Middle east. And one from China in the palace of the Maharaja of Rajasthan. So like, this was some next level stuff. Brain changing. Amazing, amazing experience.

[A]

Thank you India.

[C]

Thank you, Terror.

[A]

Thank you, Silence. Thank you, Frailty. Thank you, Consequence.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Thank you, Silence.

[A]

Oh, very cool. I'm glad you got the opportunity to go.

[B]

Yeah, me too. Very grateful for it. And then more recently, just a couple nights ago back in Chicago, I saw LCD Sound System. The fourth night of their four night stand at the Aragon. And that is just one of the best live acts out there making. It's a like nine piece. I should have counted that. It's like an eight piece rhythm machine making grooves with electronics and instruments. And James Murphy is just an astounding frontman. Basically, LCD Sound System is the Talking Heads. Once the Talking Heads stop being the Talking Heads. And both of those bands owe a huge debt of gratitude to Fela Kuti. Just in that style of a ton of people on stage making a groove and then stuff comes in and out. And that's what makes it interesting. If you get a chance to see LCD on this tour, boy, you should.

[A]

I saw they were in town and I wondered if you were going.

[B]

I was going.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

And you? What have you seen? What have you done? What have you read?

[A]

Well, other than work, I haven't really done much. However, I have read Bob Mold's memoir. It's called See A Little Light, the Trail of Rage and Melody. And it's written in conjunction with Michael Azerot. And I suppose that probably leads us to what we're talking about today.

[B]

Yeah. What is episode 79 about, you might be asking yourself? Accelerated Culture Warriors. And I'll tell you, this is one of my picks. We are digging into the 1992 album by Bob Mold's band, Sugar, and that album is Copper Blue. Yeah.

[A]

So I actually owned this one. So when you mentioned this one to me, I was prepared. But, Scott, I confess I don't think I've listened to this album in about 30 years, at least, if not longer.

[B]

Dang.

[A]

Yeah. So it was kind of revisiting. And, I mean, I could only remember the one song that I mentioned to you, which we'll talk about.

[B]

Indeed.

[A]

But, yeah, it was kind of a trip down memory lane for me.

[B]

Yeah. And, you know, it is easy to forget how big this album actually was when it came out. There were a couple pretty big singles, and those singles remain in rotation on alternative radio and occasionally popping back up in other pop culture. I picked this album. I did not own it in 1992 when it came out, but have listened to it plenty since. But I've always had a massive respect for Bob Mold. I got more into him during his solo period between his Husker do years and his Sugar years. I've mentioned in the past that my lifelong friend Rabba would show up, particularly in college or immediately thereafter in his car and say, let's go drive, and you gotta hear this album. And Bob Mold's workbook was one of those that he played, and immediately I got it. We'll talk a little bit about Bob Mold's whole arc, including those solo years. But when it was all the news in the alternative press of 1992 that Bob Mold was back in band form, and that band was Sugar, and that Sugar was a power pop band with an emphasis on The Power. Yeah, I was excited and the singles were huge. That was enough for me at the time. But, boy, this album really does deliver if you are a power pop fan. And in our recent episode on Sloan's Smeared, you learned of my love of the power pop. Yeah, again, this album really, really does deliver.

[A]

You mentioned Bob's first band, who's Cardu?

[B]

I did.

[A]

Which, by the way, I am not personally familiar with, but I appreciate them because they influenced so many bands that you and I both love. Oh, yeah, the story about how Kim Deal auditioned for the Pixies. She responded to an ad that said they were looking for a bassist who was a fan of Peter, Paul and Mary and Husker do, which I think is hilarious.

[B]

Great combo.

[A]

Yes. And Nirvana also cited them as a huge influence.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I guess that's as good a time as any to get a little bit into Bob Mold's history. And that'll get us right into the history of Sugar. So. Bob mold, born in 1960, October 16th. If you're looking to buy him a birthday present this year in Malone, New York, which I've never heard of, but it's so far upstate in New York that it's practically Canada. Bumold attended McAlester College in St. Paul, Minnesota, where then he formed Husker do while at college with drummer and singer Grant Hart and bassist Greg Norton. Husker do were immediately kind of hardcore punk darlings right out the gate. Immediately upon formation, the band formed their own record label, Reflex Records, and they started producing EPS. These guys are in college, they're 18, 19, 20, when their first music is starting to come out. Incidentally, the band name Hur never knew why the band was called that, but it's Husker do with lots of umlauts. And apparently it is named after a popular 1950s Danish board game. And the name means. Do you remember? Apparently the band was looking for a name and wanted to separate themselves from the other hardcore bands of the time, which had names that implied various forms of nastiness. Your Minor Threats, your Suicidal Tendencies, your. I don't know, Anthrax doesn't quite count. This is going Wrong Directions. To separate themselves from the other hardcore bands of the times, whose names implied various sorts of nastiness. They just wanted a foreign word that you could read what you wanted into it. And then they wanted to add the umlauts for that sort of metal cred. And it does look pretty metal.

[A]

One of their early gigs in Reno. Yeah, the flyer listed them as who Screwed you. I thought that was funny too.

[B]

It is pretty good. Husker do was always one of those bands that other punk rock musicians loved. If you had a friend who played guitar and was in rock bands, particularly hard punk and indie rock bands, odds are good that guy loved who's Kerdu. And you might be like, I knew girls who played guitar, but did you know girls who were in hardcore bands? I don't know. Maybe you did. I did not.

[A]

One or two? One or two?

[B]

Yeah, fair enough. They may or may not have loved who's Cardoo? I don't know. But yeah, who's Cardoo was a band that rock guys loved. I'm going to be quoting from a couple different articles and interviews. One that I got a loud out of in particular is one that we've actually referenced in the past. The Quietus.com culture countered. And this particular article is Copper Blue 20 Years On, Sugar's Bob Mold interviewed. The interview and article is by one Julian Marzalek, published on May 31st of 2012. So that was Sugar's Copper Blue 20 Years On. We're over 34 years in at this point. Madness. And the reason I bring Aquitus up is because I love their characterization of Husker Do. Husker do was like a very, very fast jet plane that never really touched down and it didn't have a lot of grounding to it. And that was the beauty of that sound. They were hard, they were fast. They did mostly two to three minute long songs and mostly with a ton of distortion and shouted and sung vocals and yeah, they were just hard.

[C]

I'm curious to know exactly how you are I keep my distance but that distance is too far it reassured me to know that you're okay But I don't want you nobody to be this way and I I don't want to know.

[B]

And worth bringing up that Nirvana and Pixies connection because as we'll see later when we get to the Sugar phase of Bob Mold's career, that becomes a sort of ouroboros of influence of Husker do influencing the Pixies, influencing Bob Mold influencing Sugar. And it's nice to see Bob Mold getting his dude as he is today. Anyhow, as I mentioned right out the gate the band did start their own record label, but when the time came for them to start releasing their own eps, they weren't ready for that level of distribution. So the band's early EPs were released on other bands labels including Black Flags and the Minutemen's. So just with that alone, you know that these guys had to have some hardcore cred, because those are seriously beloved hardcore bands, right? But Huskerdew didn't even really consider themselves a hardcore band, but their music had that spirit. But quickly their music got more complex and richer, as seen in their sophomore lp, Zen Arcade, which was a concept album and basically just shy of a rock opera, which is not something that a lot of punk bands were doing. Huskerdoo put out six albums in all in their six to seven year run, and the first couple of those years were just the EP years. So like they had years where they would put out two albums in the same year and they were consistently critically acclaimed, oftentimes getting lauded as one of the best albums of the year by your alternative and rock music press. Death in the Band the suicide of bassist Greg Norton was the beginning of the end of Husker do, exacerbated then by drummer and singer Grant Hart's attempts to kick heroin and Bob Mold's own drinking problems. So once the band started going their own directions and also starting other projects, Huskerdoo splits up in 1988, at which point Bob Mold gets down to work making some solo content and makes two incredible albums, starting with 1989's Workbook. Another article that I'm referencing here is from a New York Times review. What Made Husker Do Husker do by Karen Schomer In July of 1992, his solo debut album, Workbook was a radical departure, trading Husker's sonic fury and frenzied three chord distortion for somber, elegant acoustic arrangements that rarefied emotion rather than destroying it. His next album, Black Sheets of Rain was retained the arch structural convolutions, but doused them once again in noise. Workbook was the Bob Mold album that my buddy Rabba would show up and say, you got to listen to this. And it is a gorgeous album. In stark contrast to the earlier hard as hell Oosker do stuff, Workbook could practically be a Peter Gabriel album, but with more lush 12 string guitars. It's really a gorgeous work. And then with Black Sheets of rain in 1990 he gets harder, but it still is just much more complex, longer compositions, more musically structurally complex. Really, really amazing albums. And again, such a contrast to what

[A]

came before and then Sugar kind of evolved from from his solo work, did it not?

[B]

Oh for sure, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So Scott, before we get too far into this, I want to cite a couple sources. One of them is the memoir that I previously mentioned by Bob Mold. See A little light. I'm also going to be quoting from an article on Louder.com by Stephen Dalton called Hoover Dam by Sugar, the story behind the song. And that was published on February 5th of 2026. And an NPR interview that Bob Mould did back in June of 2014 called Bob Mould's Beautiful Ruinous Life. So, yeah, he was playing around with the intention of doing a third solo album.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, after those first two solo albums, Workbook and Black Sheets of Rain, Bumold spent like nine months on tour doing solo acoustic stuff, testing out new songs. He toured Europe doing that routine while opening for Dinosaur Jr. And he talks about people showing up to those shows. And Dinosaur Jr. Is kind of a raucous, rowdy band. And he is Bob Mold. He's that guy from Husker do you. And people are showing up to that show and he's just there on stage with an acoustic guitar singing sensitive singer songwriter stuff. And he talks about getting booed by crusty old fans who were just not having that.

[A]

Yeah, that happens.

[B]

But he also played music festivals, playing with and in between Sonic Youth and Nirvana. Again, just him and a 12 string. And during that time, he was shopping around his new material to record labels, and most of them were not actually biting, but one record label and one particular record exec producer who we've talked about with multiple bands in the past, did stand up and take an interest. Alan McGee, the head of Creation Records, took an interest in Bob Mold stuff. And you know, Alan McGee and Creation Records from previous episodes we have done on the Jesus and Mary Chain and My Bloody Valentine and Primal Scream, among others. He expressed a real interest and Bubble talks about meeting up with Alan McGee. As soon as I met Allan, I knew that he lived music. It was very clear. And his whole life was music. We'd sit around and talk about music. And he made it clear to me the impression that Husker Du had made on a lot of the music that he'd worked on. That is an amazing, glowing review. When the guy more or less responsible for putting the Jesus and Mary Chain and My Bloody Valentine and Primal Scream on the map says, I want to produce you because you were the guy who the bands that I helped launch were influenced by. Again, it's this sort of ouroboros of bands influencing each other and then coming back and influencing the guy who influenced them. And I just freaking love that. Yes, okay. With Alan McGee and Creation Records on his side, Bob Mold starts to recruit musicians from his own personal network. One David Barbie, formerly of the band Mercy Land on bass, and one Malcolm Travis on drums, formerly of the Zulus. And Bob Mold had actually produced a record for the Zulus. This is once again from that art article from the quietus. They spent three weeks rehearsing in early 1992 in Athens, Georgia. And the quote from Bob Mold, it wasn't a band then. But what made it a band was before we were really ready to leave Athens and head to Massachusetts to record these songs. Barry Green, who was a booker at the 40 Watt Club in Athens, asked us to fill. Fill in a last minute vacancy and play a show. And we were like, oh, sure, why not? And that was the moment. We were like, oops, what are we going to call this?

[A]

He recalls this story in his book Bob Mould wrote, the four of us usually met for breakfast at Waffle House. One morning I noticed a sugar packet on the table and thought, that's as good a name as any. Interesting to me that their first show was in Athens, Georgia on 2-20-92. Because Athens for a time really kind of was the center of the alternative music universe. I mean.

[B]

I mean, in the 80s, it was a hotbed of proto alternative music.

[A]

Right, right. R.E.M. and B. 52 bands. Yes, the two bands that come to mind.

[B]

Absolutely. And so, as I mentioned, it's Bob Mold, it's David Barbie, and it's Malcolm Travis on guitar and vocals, bass and drums, respectively. Right. And it's three guys. And it's three guys. And they're going to be making a lot of sound. And three guys making a lot of sound qualifies them as a power trio. And as we've established in more than one previous episode, I am a huge fan of the old Power trio. I'm a lifelong Rush fan, which, yeah, I was halfway expecting you to be like, ew, but I just rolled my eyes. Okay, good. Yeah. As well as the other Canadian power trio, Triumph, which everyone's gonna be like, who?

[A]

I remember them.

[B]

Oh, okay, good, good, good. And of course, the Police and Primus. And I'm a big fan of the Power Trio, is all I'm saying. So when Sugar came out. Yeah, I'm down with that.

[A]

Yeah. So shortly after their debut gig in Athens, they went to Massachusetts to record the album with a producer named Lou Giordano. They laid down a click track first, and then they had David, the bassist, lay down some guide tracks on his bass. Malcolm would then play the drum parts without ever hearing the guitar in the vocals, which could be a little bit challenging.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And then they Went back and they wanted to put in what they called the keeper bass tracks. I'm making air quotes there around the word keeper. There was a problem, though. According to Bob Mould, the intonation was off of David's bass. And when I started adding guitars to the tracks, some of the bass parts were out of tune. Bob wrote, I calmly said to him, I can tell you're getting really frustrated with doing this, and I think you're about ready to just want to go home. And if you do, I understand. And there's a train that leaves here later today. But David stuck it out. Lou Giordano gave him a bit of a pep talk and some encouragement, and he stuck around, and I think the result was very good.

[B]

Okay, so the Copper Blue Sessions, difficulties in all, did end up being incredibly productive. They were prolific. They produced a total of 30 songs for this session. And although Copper Blue itself is only a tight but complex 10 songs, I mean, Copper Blue is hard, right? This is power pop, but emphasis on the power and the crunch. But there were songs that they're like, they're too hard and too dark for this album and that they saved for another EP that they released the very next year. But I am getting a little bit ahead of myself. The Copper Blue Sessions. Bob Mole talked in an interview on MTV on 120 minutes when promoting copper Blue about his songwriting approach for this album. And I think it really summarizes it nicely. I think with Copper Blue, we just decided to sit down and write a bunch of pop songs and put a hard edge to it. I think after all the things that have happened in years past, it was time to stop denying I can write a decent song. You get lucky sometimes. And I gotta tell you, he's not wrong. Sugar's Copper Blue has some amazingly crafted pop songs. And no, it's not Husker Do. It is not hardcore, and it's definitely not his more contemplative solo work. It's its own thing, and I love me some power pop. And Sugar does it like no one else and better than most, and definitely putting the power in power pop.

[A]

Some of the songs on this album really would have been right at home when the Seattle grunge scene. I was listening to one that I remember thinking it kind of reminded me of either the Screaming Trees or the Meat Puppets.

[B]

Not the names you hear referenced most often in the Seattle grunge scene, but among the best bands.

[A]

Right? Right. Yeah. Most people think of Nirvana, right?

[B]

Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains and Soundgarden.

[A]

Right, right, right. Those are the big four. Well, in that Louder.com article that I mentioned earlier by Stephen Dalton, Bob Mould said it was right record, right time. American hardcore and alternative rock set the stage for bands in the late 80s like Pixies and Nirvana. Then Nevermind set the stage for an album like Copper Blue. So this is that Ouroboros thing that you were talking about, Scott, where Huskerdu. Bob Mould influenced Nirvana and then in turn Nirvana influenced Bob Mould in his new band, Sugar. Yeah, and then back to that NPR interview for a second. Bob said the success of Nevermind re tempered the ears of the listeners throughout the world. It was a heavy, punky record, but there was something about it that was so accessible that it opened up all these pathways for other musicians, myself included, to have our music heard. So before we go into the track by track real quick, Copper Blue was released on September 4, 1992 in the US. It was released on Ryko Disc in Europe, including the uk. It was creation, as you had mentioned.

[B]

Yep. Well, that I suppose is as good a time as any to see what that songwriting process produced and what this Copper Blue album was all about. And that makes it time for the track by Track.

[C]

Yay.

[B]

Are you with me?

[A]

I'm with you. What's the first track, Scott?

[B]

First track is track one, Laurie. No, in fact, it is track one. The act we act.

[C]

Once the mind of the time has been raised the gas.

[B]

Okay, so as if to illustrate my point, here we go. Putting the power in power pop. It has much of the hardness of Mold's Husker do work, but without that merciless breakneck pace. Perfectly reasonable. 125 beats per minute. Hey, Zabe, it's been a minute. Take a drink. But you still have the crunchy distorted guitar. You still have the pounding beat, but it takes its time. It's not a hardcore speed track. Right. It has vocals with actual melody. Right. Like, I mean, Hoother do had melody, but yelled as much as sang. And while Husker do was making two to three minute hardcore songs, this song takes its time. The act we act is five minutes and change, five minutes 10. So he's letting the song do its thing. It doesn't need to go fast, go hard and get out. It is a fully realized, bigger work. And I think that is part of what makes Sugar, what makes Copper Blue, for my money, more interesting than the early harder punk stuff he was doing.

[A]

Okay, yeah, that's fair.

[B]

And it has these amazing vocal harmonies. You started to see it in Later. Who's Godu Work? You saw Bob Mole dive full on into it in his solo albums, particularly on Workbook. But here, yeah, it's hard, but it's also lush with. Which is a really rare balance. Like you were talking about Nirvana setting the stage for this, but Nirvana was stripped down and it's Kurt's voice, raw and alone most of the time. Here. Bob Mold layering and layering and doubling and harmonizing, and it's just. Yeah, it's deep and it's lush.

[A]

I have actually a quote from Bob's book about that.

[B]

Please.

[A]

Once I had the lead vocal I liked, the process would begin. Making double, triple, sometimes even sextuple. Good word, sextuple. Layers. Then I'd start on the harmony vocals. This was before Pro Tools, so I do it over and over until it was perfect. If there were a couple of S's that didn't land together, I did it again. It's tricky business.

[B]

Yeah. But I mean, it works so well. We were talking a little bit about some of the pop influences, the jangly guitar pop that Bob Mold loved in the 60s, and you can kind of see that here. And one that I think we're going to see a little bit more of later in the album is Beach Boys.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, Beach Boys never rocked this hard, but you can see that this guy, this ex punk, really loved those lush harmonies and that thick production that the Beach Boys did so well. Right. And then there's these guitar solos. Similarly, they're more melodic than pyrotechnic. They're not blindingly fast because they don't need to be. But, yeah, the man's got guitar skills, but he can actually give it a little bit of soul within this hard context. This is rock and it rocks, but it's for adults. And Bob Mold has grown up and learned the lessons of all of his past work and repackaged it for 1992. And 1992 was receptive.

[A]

Yeah. So the guitar solos you mentioned, the one that stood out to me is actually that rock and guitar intro, you know, as soon as I started listening to it again, first time in 30 odd years. And I'm thinking this would have totally been at home on any of the early 90s grunge albums.

[B]

Sure. But more polished again, putting the pop in the power pot. Any of the big four that we talked about, of the grunge scene or Screaming Trees or Meat Puppets, delivered more on the rock front and had a powerful front man singing his guts out. But this. Those again, vocal harmonies and that Thick layered production that's. It's a different animal, like grunge set the stage for this, but then it took the stage and did its own thing to great effect in my book.

[A]

Okay, well, I don't have anything else on that one.

[B]

Well, then I could. We can move on to the next one.

[A]

All right, Scott, that brings us to track two. This is called A Good Idea. This doesn't even sound like the same vocalist as the previous track. I mean, I know it is. Maybe it's because of all the layers and all the production.

[B]

Right. This is a little. Little bit more stripped down version of it. At least a single version of it. Not so distorted, chorused, layered harmonizing. So you just get to hear him singing, Right?

[A]

Yeah, I think I like it better, actually.

[B]

Yeah. Because it's less layered, has less chorus, no distortion. It's a relatively clear lead vocal. Feels like more of a genuine performance rather than a highly produced studio product. So, like, you can hear why the Pixies loved Bob Mold or more specifically, Husker Do. Although this is Bob Mold and Sugar paying homage to the Pixies paying homage to Husker Do. I'm like. Not to get too 90s in my phrasing, but could it be any more Pixies opening with that Kim Deal baseline? That is practically just stealing Debaser, right?

[A]

Yeah. As a matter of fact, he said something about this in his book. I didn't realize the similarities between A Good Idea and the Pixies Debaser until Sugar was riding around America during the summer 1992 dates. I simultaneously laughed and gasped at the horror of having accidentally pilfered Kim Deal's bass line. Now, he doesn't mention it, but also the guitar is very reminiscent of Joey Santiago.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that guitar buzzing in like a fly coming into your ear. It is just straight up Joey Santiago. Right. And even then, the crunchy guitar chords coming in that are pretty much straight out of Black Francis's playbook. Right. And even the vocals, which are more spoken than sung. I think it's all in there. And that he didn't intentionally do it is hilarious and tells you exactly how big an influence the Pixies were on the entire rock scene of the late 80s and into the early 90s.

[A]

If you want to hear more about the Pixies and you do, and how they influence so many bands that you and I, Scott, and that our listeners love. Episode 37, Pixies Dolittle. I think that's one of our best episodes, to be honest.

[B]

That was may have been my first episode.

[A]

Nope, your first episode was Disintegration by the Cure.

[B]

It was one of my first episodes.

[A]

Yeah. It was pretty early on. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It still says guest co host Scott Free.

[A]

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Before you committed to permanently taking on the role. And I'm glad you did.

[B]

Me. You know, when I've heard this song before, I've pretty much only ever focused on the chorus. That's a good idea, she said. She said, right? It's catchy, it's sing alongable. But as is often the case with Bob Mold's vocals, at least in Husker do and Black Sheets of Rain solo era, mostly you can only hear key phrases here and there, right? And then a lot of the words just sort of blend into the texture of the crunchy guitars and the big drums. Looking at the lyrics of this one, the story is a lot darker than just a good idea. The good idea is not that great. Once again, from that Quietus article that I've already quoted a couple times, the grim murder at the center of a good idea is offset by this knowing musical nod to the Pixies. But if we look at those lyrics, sure, it starts off innocent enough.

[A]

They went down to the river Ooh, on a warm summer night the air was thick with the smell of temptation Yo. He said, why don't we lay in the water? Oh, let the water run over me the first time I heard that, I was thinking that, you know, they were doing something naughty. You know, let's go down to the river, you know, skinny dipping or something. But, yeah, then it takes a turn, doesn't it?

[B]

Yeah. He held her head high in his hands he held her down deep in the stream he saw the bubbles and matted hair Mixed in with seaweed she started to scream Gets darker as we go yeah, no, that's a good idea, she said to be alone with you she said, I've been waiting years and I'd rather be dead that's a good idea, he said. He said, and then things get worse.

[A]

But, I mean, it's catchy, right? And I like the juxtaposition between the disturbing subject matter and the bouncy pop.

[B]

Man, it's a pop song about murder. And you can go 34 years not realizing it's about murder at all. Because, man, that chorus. That's a good idea, she said, right?

[A]

Yeah. Well, I didn't realize it was about murder until you said something just now.

[B]

So it should be clear that the Accelerated Culture podcast and your co hosts do not advocate murder. We're against it, in fact. Don't murder kids. Stay off drugs, stay in school. And no murder. I cannot stress this point enough.

[A]

So then to wrap this one up. Scott.

[B]

No.

[A]

This was the third single released off of the album. It went to number 65 in the UK, but it did not chart in the USA.

[B]

Strange.

[A]

Okay, I think here's track is next.

[B]

I suppose it is. That is track three, Changes.

[C]

I remember.

[A]

Now, not so much the vocals, because Bob Mould has his very own distinctive vocal style. But if I had heard this on the radio, like, you know, out of context, not as part of this album, I would have assumed it was a Seattle band.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I can see that. And it's a yes. And I would say this one reminds me, as do a few on the album, of, like, Social Distortion. Okay, again, the voice is different, but it's got the crunch, it's got the driving beat. It's not the hardest you're ever gonna hear. It's not straight up hardcore anymore. It's punk. But again, it's power pop punk. And yeah, it's totally working from the quietus. The arpeggios that introduce the yearning at the heart of Changes contrast beautifully with the noise that follows through afterwards. For me, it's a seamless blend of pop songwriting and this hard rock sound. The sing song chorus, once again, he's really good at crafting a song that is sing alongable while still being hard. That changes, changes. Sorry, my voice is shot.

[A]

That's all right, that's all right.

[B]

The juxtaposition of those big crunchy chords and then that melodic guitar solo. And Bob Holt's harmonies are so good. Again, they're lush, but they're not overwrought. Right. It's more Beach Boys than ELO or Queen. Right? Complex, but not too complex.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I could see it.

[B]

But yeah, his guitar solo later in the song, it's melodic, it's soulful, but still with this noise machine happening around it, chugging along.

[A]

Yeah. Changes was actually the first single released off the album, Scott. But it was only released in the uk. It was not released in the usa. I'm not sure whether the single was released prior to their tour that they did in the uk or whether it was released after. But the single did go to number 77 over there.

[B]

It's not topping the charts, but a

[A]

showing, that's all I got.

[B]

That seems like plenty.

[A]

Okay, so I guess we can move on to track four, which is called Helpless.

[C]

Never try to change your mind. I keep it to myself sometimes, I got to tell you.

[A]

Okay, so we're definitely hearing a lot of Bob Mold's influences, right? We already heard the Pixies inspired Trek 2. You mentioned the Beach Boys. Do you know who this one was inspired by?

[B]

I don't. What do you got?

[A]

He writes in his book Helpless, with its straightforward 16th note snare fills, recalls Cheap Tricks surrender.

[B]

I can totally see that.

[A]

Yes. And so then as soon as I read that, I laughed because, you know, I'm a huge Cheap Trick fan.

[B]

Love me some Cheap Trick as well.

[A]

And yeah, I. I could totally, totally hear it.

[B]

It's just such a good power pop song. Right. Like, again, if you're following in the footsteps of Cheap Trick and he was saying he was specifically referencing them, well,

[A]

he said it recalls Cheap Trick's Surrender. So I guess take that how you will.

[B]

Right. The Quietest had a good quote about the musical aspect of this one that I think sums it up better than I probably could. This is a band at work here. Though the songwriting responsibilities fall squarely on Mold's shoulder, the playing of David Barbie and Malcolm Travis underpins and grounds the activities around them from the off. Travis's huge drums are at stake Dark odds with Grant Hart's percussive contribution to Husker Do. While Barbie's solid base locks in with Travis to build the performance's solid foundations. His descending lines off Helpless add to the sense of confusion at the root of the song as the groove locks in murderously. You know, it's just pure power pop, with just enough crunch in those guitars to satisfy even rock guys who might not necessarily go in for the pop aspect of power pop. Right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Lyrically, it's solid. It's vague. The lyrics are vague. So vague as to be universal. They're not really going to change your life, but that's not really what pop music is meant to do is. It's more to pop along, too. Driving along, wind blowing through your hair, singing along. And in this case, rock out, too, right?

[A]

Yeah. So, you know, I didn't realize I. I've heard this song so many times, and I guess I never put two and two together and realized that this was sugar. I don't know why, because I owned the album.

[B]

But it was a pretty big single, right?

[A]

It was. Yes. So this was the second single released off the album, and it went to number five on the US Alternative chart, which is where I've heard it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it also, interestingly, went to number 37 in New Zealand. Weird and random, but okay.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's also the shortest song on the album, coming in at 3 minutes, 5 seconds. It is just a short and sweet power pop nugget.

[A]

I like it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, what's next, Scott?

[B]

What's next is the album's fifth track, Hoover Dam.

[C]

Of. This altitude, it will come back to you. And, you know,

[B]

I mean, right from the opening, that swinging organ that is just straight up echoes of the Beach Boys, California Girls. Right.

[A]

I didn't think of California Girls. You're absolutely right. It kind of reminded me of you. Remember in the beginning of old news programs, there would be like this. That's kind of what it reminded me of. I could feel that in his book, he actually said that it was a Beach Boys inspired organ intro. So. Yeah, you called that one glaringly obvious.

[B]

The Quietus also references this. The chimes and grand sweeps of Hoover Dam conjure up sweeping vistas and panoramas that simultaneously sum up feelings of cosmic insignificance and the need to belong to some kind of sense of security. Yeah, maybe.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But then the organ gives way to that huge reversed reverb marching band style, drum core, snare that also feels like something straight out of I Am the Walrus. Right.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Wearing his influences on his sleeves here turns into a sort of a march that wouldn't feel out of place on Black Sheets of Rain, his second solo album. And then there's an instrumental break with a keyboard solo that feels practically Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Like, this song is all over the place and I am here for it.

[A]

Okay, so why don't I do the whole quote from Bob Mould's book, Then from the Beach Boys inspired organ intro to the Left bank inspired baroque harpsichord solo.

[B]

And that's so Beatles, though, right?

[A]

Yeah, totally. To the backward guitar swirls straight from the birds. Thoughts and words. So there we have another 60s influence, the Birds.

[B]

He loves him. Some jangly guitar rock he does.

[A]

And then he continues. It incorporated several touchstones of my days as a student of 60s pop music.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And one of the things that makes anything Bob Mole does so compelling, for me at least, is that earnest urgency when his voice goes high. Right. Like when he's singing and he's reaching for those notes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It really cuts through the noise that he's also so fond of. Like, he likes this thick, crunchy guitar and these huge drums and this deep bass. But then when he is reaching for those high notes, it cuts totally through it. He's really belting it. And, like, it is not the cleanest Tone, it's not classically strong and there's this almost strained quality to it, but again, you can see that earnestness. He really means it so classically, not necessarily good, but just super compelling and genuine. And put that in this really complex pop casserole that he's putting together. Of all the baking in all these old 60s influences, I think it's a great track. That said, the vocals are cutting through, but not to the point where I actually have any idea what he's talking about. And it's called Hoover Dam. I'm gonna guess the Hoover Dam.

[A]

Well, kind of. Kind of. So the song came to him at a point where his career was just kind of falling apart. Some people actually have reached out to him and said, hey, is this a song about suicide? Are you okay? The song came to him fully formed in a dream. He explained in that article on Louder.com, hoover Dam by Sugar. The story behind the song, the Mississippi divides the country, so there's a reference to the Mississippi river there. It's using metaphor to create this back and forth thing where you are on one side of the line or the other. The biggest supposition I've heard from music critics is, is this a suicide song? With the Hoover Dam, if you slide down, you're dead. Or with the Mississippi, if you go in, you're going to end up at the bottom. It just tied those images together. But it's a songwriter song, not a confessional. So it was, I think, for him, very cathartic because he was going through a really rough time. But yeah, I think the result is very positive in a weird sort of way.

[B]

I mean, as positive as a suicide song can be.

[A]

Okay, well, Scott, the next song on the album is called the Slim.

[C]

Do you know where you're going, know where you down? It's this simple it's this simple the chances seem so swell In a cloud Is it clouded? You cloud it up again. Your perception, your decision, your decision behind. Not left behind, you. Oh, I'm left behind. I'm left behind. It's a matter of time.

[B]

So, yeah, for me, as a fan of Mold solo work from the start, this track feels like it could come from solo era. Bob Mold, particularly Workbook, that steel string 12 string guitar with those big, big lush guitar chords. But Mold's voice again, miked, clearer and cleaner and largely a single vocal track. So again you get that earnest performance and you can really hear what he's saying in this one. Not always the case. Yeah, he's got something to say. In this song?

[A]

Yes, definitely. So the Slim disease is a term coined in the mid-80s in East Africa to describe severe chronic diarrhea, extreme wasting, and malnutrition characteristic of AIDS and hiv.

[B]

Oh, damn.

[A]

Yes. And. And the song has kind of a darker, heavier tonal quality to it too, which is appropriate for the subject matter. And basically the song is about losing a partner or a lover to aids.

[B]

And if you were a Husker do fan, again, this was hardcore punk for dudes mostly. Not saying the ladies didn't like it, but everybody I knew who was into who's Purdue was a rock guy, and this was guys rock. And then the sensitive singer songwriter workbook solo album, and then the harder Black Sheets of Rain. There was no real indication any one way or the other of Bob Mold's sexuality. He was writing songs that oftentimes told stories or talked about relationships, but just in sort of vague terms. But this song is a much bigger clue into what was going on in Bob Mold's mind and life.

[A]

Yes, yes, absolutely. As a matter of fact, that NPR interview he did in 2014. Yeah, there's a really good quotation he gives about it. And actually I'd like to play it, if you don't mind.

[B]

Oh, please.

[A]

All right, so he's referring back to his Huskerdoo days in the 80s when Reagan was president. But he was raised in a very strict Catholic household, so as you can imagine, stuff like homosexuality did not get talked about at home.

[B]

Well, I think when you say the word Reagan, he was the coal that fueled that train of discontent for hardcore for so long. Personally, for me, as a not out gay man in the early 80s and what the Reagan administration did to, I guess, more importantly, what they didn't do, they couldn't say the words AIDS until the middle of 1985. So here I am, 20 years old, sexually aware, but not out, confused, sometimes self hating with a president who cannot name the disease that may or may not kill me or my friends. That would be a source of anger for anybody.

[A]

He finally came out in the early

[B]

90s, but not on purpose.

[A]

No, no. He was inadvertently outed by Spin magazine. Yeah, that's right.

[B]

In 1994. Yeah.

[A]

Was it 94?

[B]

Shortly after this album comes out.

[A]

Gotcha. Okay. But since then, a lot of gay and queer artists have pointed to Bob Mo as being a huge influence and a huge inspiration for them. Yeah, I mean, he was out before Rob Halford was out.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Although Rob Halford was much more obvious.

[A]

The hellbent for leather Thing kind of gave it away. Yeah. All right.

[B]

Anyway, so, yeah, again, from the Quietus article I keep quoting. Yeah. Mold had yet to fully embrace his sexuality, and the song was written from an observational rather than experiential point of view. But here was confrontation, acceptance and fear, as Mold laments. When you left with your death I felt empty When I looked back on my pillow what you used to say I'm left behind and the quietest goes on brave and bold. It also tackled head on what so many wished would simply go away. So Mold wasn't out yet and wasn't necessarily comfortable enough with his sexuality being public. Apparently it was an open secret in the hardcore scene that he was gay but wasn't necessarily willing to be a spokesperson. Did not feel because he had been in the closet most of his life, stepping up and being a spokesman or being a symbol for gay men in rock and in particularly in punk. So he sort of plays it a little close to the vest in this one. Telling a story about the AIDS epidemic and of someone losing someone without coming out and making it about him. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Very powerful, though.

[B]

Oh, yeah, It's a beautiful song.

[A]

Yeah. All right. That's all I have on that one.

[B]

I feel like it's plenty. The next track, track seven, is a song that if you were alive and awake and listening to alternative radio in the 90s, you probably heard. This is if I can't change your mind.

[C]

Tears fill up my eyes Washed away away with sorrow and somewhere in my mind I know there's no tomorrow well, I see you're leaving soon I guess you had your. But if I can't change your mind and no one will,

[A]

This is the first song I remember ever hearing by Bob Mulder. Sugar.

[B]

Yeah, If I can't change your mind is just so damn joyous sounding. Right?

[A]

It's bouncy.

[B]

It is bouncy. Yeah. Bouncy and joyous while being about resignation and romantic, not quite hopelessness, but pining and waiting, acknowledging that the love may never be requited. And that, my friends, is very power pop, sunny but angsty with the hooks and the sing along ability. This song is just goddamn perfect in my book.

[A]

Okay, all right. Well, this is the one that I heard when I was working at the store at the mall and prompted me to go down to Music Land and buy the disc. So.

[B]

Yeah, that continues to be just the late 80s, early 90s thing you could possibly say.

[A]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, I lived at the mall, you know. I got to say, though, I think I might have listened to it once, maybe twice, and I don't think I ever listened to it again after that.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

So I know, I know the harmonies

[B]

on the chorus, like Bob Mold clearly studied the Beach Boys. The clip that you played is the first verse and first chorus and then the next time around. It is huge. The vocals are layered and lush and everything that I have raved about in his production so far in the episode. Yeah, this song is spectacular in my book. Surprising to me though. In my memory, this was the big song from this album. But Helpless actually made it higher on the charts. If I. Yeah, not off my mark.

[A]

Yeah, you're correct. This was the fourth single off of the album. It went to number 30 in the UK. Strangely, it did not chart here in the States.

[B]

I remember hearing it on the radio a lot.

[A]

It was on constant rotation on MTV

[B]

and still kind of is on the radio a lot.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

If you have a radio station in your town and you still listen to terrestrial radio and you should. It's not classic rock, it's not alternative rock, but it's what I call credible rock. The station that does kind of the mix of pop and rock and a little bit of bluesy whatever. And like this song is going to be played on that station once a week, I guarantee you. I'm just saying, if you look at the video, there's some interesting stuff that happens wherein Bob Mold actually makes a nod to his sexuality before he was even out. But he hints at it from the Quietest article. This was going to take a minute, but I think it's worth getting into. The interviewer says you were outed several years later in a magazine feature, but one of the interesting aspects of Copper Blue is that the lyrics are very gender and sexuality neutral. Was this a deliberate move on your part to say that these emotional tales that you're taking us through are universal truths regardless of gender and sexuality? To which he responds, yes, it was intentional. And wasn't only that which you stated, which was very accurate. There's also the part in my autobiography where I talk about it and the self hating homosexual that resided inside of me and having trouble with the notion that a song might be a gay song and therefore excluding a large percentage of the audience. I really wanted it to be accessible to everyone on an emotional level. It was also, for better or worse, my idea of what gay music was. Years later I knew much better. But at the time I wasn't comfortable being a spokesperson or being put in a category that I didn't really identify With. And years later I look back at people like Tom Robinson or Jimmy Somerville who really had to do the heavy lifting. And even before them, you'd have Sylvester, who had a different approach to them. There were people that were so attuned to the gay identity and the gay experience that they were very comfortable wearing that badge. I didn't have experience in that community, so it was strange to me at the time. I didn't have an active connection and I certainly didn't have a gay identity. The only identity I had was Bob Mold, punk rock musician. And that was the identity that defanged me at the time. I don't know if you'd seen the video for it, but I have not. Yeah, he references it again in that Quietus article where he talks about how in that video he actually gives a subtle nod to his sexuality. Not even that subtle. So he says, I don't know if you can remember the video to if I can't change your mind. But there was another sort of tell in that at the end I'm holding up a series of Polaroids as the song goes through the chorus and there's one that I hold up of me and my then partner and I turn it over and it says, this is not your parents world. And that whole video touched on the idea of relationships and love. There were same sex couples, there were heterosexual couples with children. There are teenagers with grandparents. So the video was very telling. I don't know if I was building up to coming out. I was just building up to the next tour.

[A]

Okay. And then the whole thing with Spin magazine happened.

[B]

Right, right, yeah, yeah. He, he, he may have been thinking about toying with the idea of coming out. And then in 1994, Spin just went and gone ahead and done it for him and outed. Okay, the 1994 article. Rough.

[A]

All right. So the next track on the album is Fortune Teller.

[B]

And then as if to save the album from getting too sweetly pop in the wake of if I can't change your mind, fortune Teller brings it back to hard rock basics, power trio style. Just hitting hard and fast from the jump. Just one guitar, bass and drums and simpler vocals. It's not no harmonies, but it's not the multi part Beach Boys or ELO stuff from if I Can't Change youe Mind. It hits hard. Man, I like this track.

[A]

Okay. Man, I kind of got sucked into the lyrics on this one. Yeah, but I'm also not, not in love with the grammar, so.

[B]

Well, yeah, I mean.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Where he sings maybe Crystal Ball Is fortune teller, maybe cards laid out as fortune teller in the future tenses, past and fortune present. Here at last.

[B]

It's a little garbled, I'll give you that. But ultimately, yeah, you can't always hear too well what every word in the song is. It just becomes sort of an instrument at times.

[A]

True.

[B]

But lyrically, yeah, clearly the relationship is going wrong and both parties are getting sick of aspects of it. A part of me stands confused again watching it slip right through my hands. Put a finger on it now before it's gone. And the harmonies on this line are just so Bob mold and so cool. Right. Lyrics are pretty straightforward. Nothing too earth shakingly insightful, but relatable enough.

[A]

What I found very interesting, though was like the last two lines of the song.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Little box that never lied. I guess I'm keeping this inside. Yeah. So the little box that never lied, obviously that's some kind of fortune telling device.

[B]

That's obvious to me, but I'll go with it.

[A]

Well, you know, like a box of tarot cards or something. I don't know, but. But I guess I'm keeping this inside. So you mentioned, you know, that the relationship has kind of gone bad and he's keeping it bottled up. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Of all the references to make. There was an episode of Shears while Coach was still alive where his daughter is in a relationship and it's going very wrong because the guy's clearly using her, but she can't break free from him because she thinks she's too ugly to get any man, but she doesn't say that. And Coach is like, you're so amazing. You're so beautiful. Why wouldn't. And she's like, daddy, isn't it obvious? And Coach is like, nothing is ever obvious to me. And I've always found that incredibly relatable.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's all I got on that one. Do you have anything else?

[B]

I think that's enough.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Moving right along. That takes us to track nine. Slick.

[C]

Foreign

[B]

number, which is unusual in the context of this album. Musically, it's pretty straightforward 8th notes kind of plodding along. And vocally it's one of those where the words just sort of become another rhythmic instrument blending in with the guitars and the bass. It's kind of tough to tell what the song is actually about until you read the lyrics. Whoa.

[A]

Right, right. It's very clearly about a car accident. Yeah, right.

[B]

This is the darkest car song since. Well, since Primuses Jerry was a race car driver, which was actually really Recent. And if you have not listened to our episode on Primus's Sailing Seas of Cheese, that was back in 1991, that album. So episode 48, Run, Don't Walk and Go. Listen to another episode of Accelerated Culture after this episode is done. But before that, the darkest car song since Wayne Cochran's Last Kiss. Although I prefer the J. Frank Wilson and the Cavaliers version. You may better know the Pearl Jam cover, which would come a couple years later. Anyways, the song isn't about the car crash. It's about the aftermath of a car crash. And that is actually way rougher.

[A]

Yes, I was crazy to think Crazy to chase Chasing this automobile I tend to think were you ready to race? Racing this automobile It's a machine it's the one in my dreams it's taking me out of control it slips through my hands on the wheel don't you know how it feels when you're driving your dreams through a pole?

[B]

Yeah, and that's the accident part. But then it gets worse. Well, I hate your face I hate the wall I'm sick of staring at the wall I hate the mirror with alcohol there is no wall it's all I remember is the sound of squealing

[A]

tires the road disappeared only to be replaced by the sound of twisted steel the collision was swift and next thing I knew was that I might be dead all my life passed before my eyes When I opened my eyes I was looking at you they sent you

[B]

here to take care of me I don't know your name I can't hear your voice well, I can't speak it's all I do is wait for you

[A]

to feed me oh, so this is like about a nurse or something that he sees, right?

[B]

Yeah, he's comatose or something like it. In the hospital and just wanting to die I just want to get up and shake you loose I want to be free of these machines

[A]

Yep. Yeah, dude, yeah. And you know, lyrically, that is very poetic. It's very beautiful. It doesn't work for me in the context of this song, though. I don't know why.

[B]

Yeah, like I said, my description of the music plotting is not necessarily the most compelling tempo. But, you know, maybe he's kind of going with the monotony of his non life now. I don't know.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's not your favorite song. It's not your favorite song?

[A]

Nope, not so much.

[B]

Well, then there's one more song that might be the last song on the album. Track 10.

[A]

Yes, track 10. Man on the Moon.

[B]

Okay, so maybe Mid tempo numbers aren't that unusual in the context of this album, or at least at the tail end of it. Again, this is another one of those Sugar songs where the vocals kind of get absorbed into the music and become another textural element with occasional phrases that do break through. The title phrase, it's the man on the moon. You hear that at another point, you hear saying good night to you. But mostly it's tough to tell what's going on here lyrically, and that is probably for the best.

[A]

Yeah, this one's dopey.

[B]

This is some pretty goofy fare.

[A]

It's almost like a lullaby, like something that you would sing to a child.

[B]

I have it in my notes as it's like hard rock. Goodnight Moon.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's accurate. Saying good night to you oh, how it shines He's a good friend of mine He's a good friend of yours Even many miles away.

[B]

Yeah, whatever. You can't hear the lyrics anyways, so it could be saying anything. I guess it's saying this, but the music's pretty great. Especially that guitar synth bit at like the 1 minute 19 mark. I really dig that. And then there's that weird twiddly organ bit at the end that closes out the album. I don't know what's going on there,

[A]

but yeah, I do. I don't feel that. Yeah, it doesn't work for me.

[B]

Yeah, Sugar doesn't necessarily stick the landing on this album, but man, is there some strong stuff in those first eight tracks.

[A]

No wonder then that this album remains Bob Mold's all time best selling album and it was voted 1992 Album of the year by NME magazine.

[B]

In that Quietus interview, he actually addresses Copper Blue being NME's album of the year for 1992. I couldn't believe it. I was the 17 year old kid who used to take the 45 minute bus ride to the record store in the middle of winter in Minnesota and I would sit on the radiator and read NME cover to cover so I could work out how to best spend my $8 on five import singles. So I understood the gravity of it being their 1992 album of the year. I kind of like his recognition that 17 year old him would be freaking out at this.

[A]

That's very cool. That's very cool.

[B]

And I gotta tell you, the longer we do this show, the more I tend to respect a lot of their picks. There are a lot of good ones to pick from, but yeah, this is a solid rock album and a really interesting new chapter For Bob Mold, and so different than what came before it. Yes, it's got the power. It's got the pop. It's power pop.

[A]

Well, you know, I admire his decision to reinvent himself and his sound and not be pigeonholed into the whole Husker doo thing. So then what happened, Scott?

[B]

As I mentioned earlier, the songwriting and recording session that produced Copper Blue produced 30 songs in all, and of which made Copper Blue. But among those 30 were another six that were darker and harder, some dealing with religious themes of his Catholic upbringing. And think about that. There are songs that were hard enough that what you just heard were the lighter, easier going ones. Kind of says something. Six songs were released in April of 1993 as their own EP Beaster. And it's a Sugar EP, but it feels even more like Husker do, but still power pop, but dark and hard power pop. In 1994, real quick turnaround, Sugar releases another LP, file under easy Listening. And then Sugar took some time off. A lot of time off. Like 32 years off. Wow, that's a lot of years.

[A]

That's a lot.

[B]

Bob Mold continued to produce his own solo work in the interim, like 12 LPs worth, get a brief collaboration with the Foo Fighters. He had a song on their 2011 album and would form it with them in concert and on the occasional TV appearance. Bob Mold would continue to tour, doing solo sets. Solo albums he released included just last year. A year ago now, in March of 2025, here we go crazy. And then in October of 2025, sugar dropped a new single, House of Dead Memories. And as you might expect, it rocks. His voice has clearly aged a bit, but his chops and his attitude have not. Sugar is timeless, hard power pop. And Sugar has announced that there will be a new album this year and have announced a slew of tour dates for this year. No Chicago show yet, sadly, which is kind of bullshit, but okay.

[A]

On February 20th of this year, 2026, BMG Records released a reissue of Copper Blue on limited edition Citrus Echo Vinyl. You know, Scott, I know you still do the vinyl that limited edition Citrus Echo Vinyl know.

[B]

Yeah, I may have to check this out. Okay, what else will I be checking out between now and the next time we talk? Lori?

[A]

Okay, well, Scott, our next episode, we're still in 92 for a couple more episodes. We're going to try to wrap it up soon.

[B]

It was a big year. It was a big year. There was a lot of good music that came out.

[A]

Yes, you are picking stuff that I never would have picked I stand. So that's kind of cool. That's kind of cool. So I've chosen since by the Lightning Seeds was their second album.

[B]

Oh, interesting. I know very little by the Lightning Seeds. Like, I can name you a big single, but I think that was off their first album.

[A]

That would be pure, right?

[B]

That is right. Pure and simple every time.

[A]

So we're gonna try very hard to keep our two week schedule.

[B]

Right. Yeah. So apologies to all of you who have stuck it out and who endured the long wait from our previous episode and the even longer wait before the last one. There's been a lot of stuff going on in life and you can't see me, but I am gesturing to the world and this dumpster fire that we are currently living in. We're trying to get through it just like you are. And yeah, it's overwhelming. It's a little overwhelming sometimes. We will try to make sense of this world and smooth out the rough edges of the world we live in with another solid alternative album and forget about your troubles for a minute there.

[A]

Well, on that note, thank you again for listening, Scott. Thank you for choosing this album. This is not an album I would have chosen, but I do think it's a good choice for 92, a damn

[B]

good album, and one you don't hear every day these days.

[A]

And then this is a goodbye from

[B]

me, Laurie, and from me, Scott free. We'll see you back here in two weeks, in theory.

[A]

Peace out.