Episode 80: The Lightning Seeds’ “Sense” (1992)

Summary

Accelerated Culture Podcast – Episode 80 Summary
The Lightning Seeds’ “Sense” (1992)
Released: April 3, 2026
Hosts: Lori & Scott Free

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Episode Theme and Purpose

In this episode, Lori and Scott Free explore the 1992 album Sense by The Lightning Seeds, delving into its musical craft, lyrical themes, production context, and place within the alternative music landscape. The episode spotlights the pre-history of the band, the creative vision of Ian Broudie, and the album’s significance in early ’90s UK pop and indie music. The hosts provide a track-by-track analysis, compare notes on their personal connections, and discuss the album’s reception and legacy.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Pre-History: Big in Japan and the Liverpool Scene

[03:29-13:47]

• Background on The Lightning Seeds:
  • Scott details the tangled, influential roots of Liverpool’s late-’70s band Big in Japan, a zany punk project with a revolving-door lineup featuring future members of Frankie Goes to Hollywood, The Teardrop Explodes, The Slits, and even Zoo Records co-founders.
  • Quote:
    “The alumni of Big in Japan went on to do some really weird things is what it comes down to.” (Scott, 11:13)
  • Notable anecdotes: Julian Cope’s beef with the band, cross-pollination among post-punk, new wave, and future producers.

2. Ian Broudie’s Transition to The Lightning Seeds

[14:08-23:53]

• Post-Big in Japan, Broudie found renown as a producer for Echo & The Bunnymen, The Icicle Works, The Fall, and more.
• The Lightning Seeds began as a near-solo studio project—Broudie played most instruments and crafted the synth-laden, melodic pop sound.
• Band Name:
  • Derived from a misheard lyric in Prince’s “Raspberry Beret”—“the lightning sees” as “the lightning seeds.” (Broudie story, 17:10)
• Sense was the follow-up to the successful 1989 debut Cloudcuckooland and marked a deepening of Broudie’s melodic, sample-heavy pop.
• UK: Often well-known, especially for football anthems.
  US: Gained some alternative radio play, but remained a cult favorite.

3. Album Context, Production, and Collaborators

[23:53-25:20]

• Sense heavily features Simon Rogers of The Fall as co-producer and arranger.
• Recorded in Ian’s brother’s largely empty Liverpool house using a 24-track machine.
• Unique for its use of then-trendy sample loops, layered textures, and bittersweet, poetic lyrics.
• Three tracks co-written with Terry Hall (The Specials, Fun Boy Three, The Colour Field), adding weight and pop prowess.

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Track-by-Track Discussion and Notable Moments

1. “Sense” [25:21-31:31]

• Lori: “I think that this is just an absolutely gorgeous song...a perfectly crafted pop song.” (28:34)
• Scott initially finds it a bit too sweet but acknowledges Broudie’s pop craftsmanship.
• Features harmonica by Mark Feltham (noted session musician; [27:47]).
• Music video features Keith Haring-esque art and Terry Hall.

2. “The Life of Riley” [31:32-38:51]

• Inspired by Broudie's son, Riley—hopeful and nervy new-parent lyrics.
  • “Maybe I don’t know what I’m doing as a parent, but damn it, we’re gonna get through this together.” (Lori, 36:18)
• Accordion by Alan Dunn.
• Major UK hit; became iconic as the football “Goal of the Month” theme on BBC’s Match of the Day.

3. “Blowing Bubbles” [42:03-46:00]

• Happy Mondays/Beloved vibes, but chorus divides opinions.
• Lori admits the chorus grew on her; Scott finds it too whimsical for his taste.

4. “A Cool Place” [46:18-49:12]

• Heavily relies on chopped vocal samples – “What if the Housemartins got a hold of a sampler?” (Scott, 47:04)
• Both hosts agree the sampler work is awkward and detracts from the otherwise serviceable jangle-pop tune.

5. “Where Flowers Fade” [50:44-54:45]

• “What if the Happy Mondays stopped doing drugs? The answer is the Lightning Seeds, ‘Where Flowers Fade.’” (Scott, 51:37)
• Co-written by Terry Hall.
• Notable horn section by Roddy Lorimer (54:03).
• Lyrically touches on disillusionment; spoken-word, anti-war verses evoke older and recent conflicts.

6. “A Small Slice of Heaven” [54:56-59:52]

• Standout track for both; builds from house-y, synth textures and Farm-like guitar groove.
• Personal moment: Lori describes leaving a stale relationship inspired by this song—“I realized I needed to get out of this relationship.” (58:10)
• Overlapping vocal arrangements praised for emotional resonance.

7. “Tingle Tangle” [60:15-65:05]

• Both take issue with the “Tingle”/“Tangle”/“ice cream clown” lyrics.
• Scott: “This track is not that, Scott.” (65:07)
• Musically lush, but marred by prominent if clunky lyrics.

8. “Happy” [65:49-70:18]

• Big funk/hip-hop beat, Happy Mondays meets Soup Dragons vibe.
• Lori and Scott both enjoy the groove; speculate on the deep backing vocal's identity (likely Terry Hall).
• Lyrics touch on ecstasy and love; “That is lovely.” (Scott, 69:56)

9. “Marooned” [70:35-75:10]

• Chapterhouse/English baggy/afropop influences; drums and guitar work praised.
  • “That horn line... so very English... feels like processional.” (Scott, 72:27)
• Both appreciate its expansive, “cosmic Scouse” feel; Lori wishes it closed the album.

10. “Thinking Up Looking Down” [75:30-79:52]

• Acoustic, lullaby-inflected, with ticking clock motif.
• Lyrics imply loss, mourning, or reminiscence: “All I can say is I miss those days.”
• Lori notes echoes of Ladysmith Black Mambazo’s harmonies.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “You make my strings swell.” (Lori, 44:40)
• “...the phrase ‘Life of Riley’ predates this song by a lot.” (Scott, 36:48)
• “He’s not quite Britpop... he telegraphed nerd, but without it being central to the music.” (Scott, 39:23)
• “It’s better for art to evoke a strong reaction than for it to evoke yawns.” (Scott, 64:01)
• On the album’s critical reception: “A disgruntled production extravaganza and a strange achievement, but not an unpleasant one.” (Trouser Press via Scott, 80:12)

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Album Reception, Legacy & What Came After

[80:03-85:38]

• Sense charted at #5 UK, #154 US; critics praised its sound and craft, though saw it as more liquid and diffuse than earlier efforts.
• Led to broader success, especially with 1994’s Jollification and the football anthem “Three Lions.”
• Broudie continued to produce and record, fronting a full Lightning Seeds touring band from 1994, and remaining a musically respected “cosmic Scouse” figure.
• Quote from Ian Broudie (thenationalnews.com):

  “I was always the underdog. The Lightning Seeds was something that really took me out of my comfort zone. …Actually, these are the glory years. I love playing live, love the people in my band and feel in control of my own destiny.” (87:34)

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Favorite Tracks

• Scott: "A Small Slice of Heaven" – “It sounds like the Lightning Seeds and no one else.”
• Lori: "Sense" – “I just love that song so much. It’s so gorgeous.”

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Next Episode Teaser

[87:18–88:05]

• Next up: R.E.M.’s 1992 landmark Automatic for the People.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Big in Japan & Band History: [03:29–13:47]
• Name origins & Roots of The Lightning Seeds: [17:10–19:24]
• Track-by-Track begins: [25:21]
  • “Sense”: [25:21–31:31]
  • “The Life of Riley”: [31:32–38:51]
  • “A Small Slice of Heaven”: [54:56–59:52]
  • “Happy”: [65:49–70:18]
  • Closing & Reception: [80:03–81:16]
• Ian Broudie Reflection: [87:34]
• Next time: R.E.M.’s Automatic for the People: [87:18–88:05]

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Tone/Mood: Conversational, witty, a mix of nerdy enthusiasm, musicologist trivia, and emotional honesty; hosts are candid—agreeing, disagreeing, and weaving in personal stories.

Summary Useful For:
Anyone unfamiliar with the Lightning Seeds, the album Sense, or early ’90s UK alternative pop. Provides a blend of deep music history, context, critical reaction, and subjective response—with clear track navigation and points of interest.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Welcome to the Accelerated Culture podcast. A sonic journey through the vibrant and revolutionary sounds of the 1980s and 1990s. And now 2024 Webby honoree for best Indie Podcast. I'm Lori, along with my co host Scott Free, and in this podcast we explore how new waves stormed the airwaves in the early 80s and gave way for the rise of alternative music in the 90s. Find us on the [e-mail]. Hello and welcome to episode 80 of the Accelerated Culture podcast.

[A]

I'm Lori and I am scott free. 80. Already 80.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I've been there for like half of them.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Well, and then just think if we'd actually kept to our every two week schedule, how many we'd have.

[A]

Well, life stuff and the world, you know.

[B]

I know, yeah. So speaking of life stuff, what have you been up to since we last recorded?

[A]

Usually what we call what do you know, what have you seen, what have you read? Yeah, sweet. All, mostly.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I went snowboarding. That was great. Yeah. Went snowboarding with lifelong friends, a couple of whom are regular listeners of the show, at least one of whom I've already given a shout out to. So, J Dog, you know I love you, baby. But listener who was the host of the snowboarding expedition Neptune. What up, Neptune? Thanks for listening, baby.

[B]

You have a friend named Neptune?

[A]

That's awesome. I have a friend named Neptune. Yes.

[B]

That's awesome. Well, I have not done much either other than going to go see Project Hail Mary, which by the way was awesome. I loved the book and I think the movie was even better. So listeners, if you're looking for something to do, I really recommend it. And I don't recommend movies that often.

[A]

I am looking forward to seeing that one myself. There is a 70 millimeter print showing here in Chicago and I'm gonna see if I can get a ticket to that. If we're talking about movies, I also saw a movie that made quite an impression. Good luck, have fun. Don't die. Oh man, that is a wild ride. And touches on many of the issues of the day, social media and artificial Intelligence and dystopian hellscapes. And it's a lot of fun and it is a thinker, even if it spends a lot of time telling you precisely what to think. But worth the view. So what are we doing today, Laurie?

[B]

Well, we are continuing with 1992 and this week's episode is about the album since by the Lightning Seeds.

[A]

Hold on real quick. Before we get to that, I would like to get into the pre history behind the band that we will be focusing on for this episode. It also is a wild ride. Can I regale you with the pre history of today's band?

[B]

Okay, I sense there is a Scott rant coming up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, wrap in. All right, so In May of 1977 in Liverpool, a ragtag group of weirdos forms a punk band Big in Japan. Now you may be hearing the phrase Big in Japan and thinking, wait, I know that song because I'm Big in Japan. Different Big in Japan. That one was by Alphaville, who you probably know from the song Forever Young. But this Big in Japan, while they did have a song Big in Japan, you almost certainly don't know. What you probably do know is members of this band because of other bands that they went on to be in, or their work as producers of bands that you know and love, or the record labels they founded. So. May 1977, Liverpool. The band Big in Japan is originally the idea of one Clive Langer, formerly of the band Deaf School. He would go on to produce albums by Madness and the Teardrop Explodes. More about them in a bit. Dexy's Midnight Runners, including the one album that really matters to Raih, albums by Elvis Costello and the Attractions he produced they Might Be Giants for Flood. Which amazing album? Morrissey's Kill Uncle. He wasn't in the band Big In Japan yet, but he did come up with the idea. Big in Japan was actually founded by one Bill Drummond on guitar. Devout listeners to this show will know that name. Bill Drummond from episode 56, the KLF's White Room. Bill Drummond was one of the founders of the klf. Other founders of Big in Japan also included Kevin Ward on bass.

[B]

Kevin Ward was a bassist. He's a fellow art school student with Drummond. He eventually moved over to vocals, but he got squeezed out by Ian Braude. He hasn't played music since.

[A]

Got it. Well, Ian Browdy figures very prominently into this episode, but we will get to him. Other founding member of Big in Japan won, Phil Allen on drums. Nothing further on him, your honor.

[B]

Got something on him too.

[A]

Oh, please share.

[B]

Okay, according to The Q magazine article, Phil Allen joined up with Warden Drummond, quote, who knew a couple of chords for a bit of a joke. But he got bored and left the band as soon as they started getting the attention of record companies. He said the whole idea was to be a caricature of punk rather than the real thing. Subsequently moved on to some other bands, the Egyptians, the Moderates, and in the mid-80s, a band called the Hunters. But mostly he is a session musician and a guitar teacher. Huh.

[A]

Well, nice work if you can get it. The band, this lineup at least, played a total of three gigs. Then, in August of 1977, a good time to be a punk band in England, the lineup expanded to include one Jane Casey, a woman who wore a lampshade on her shaved head, who became the lead singer. A later band that she was in, Pink Industry, would go on to open for beloved accelerated culture bands including the Cocteau Twins and the Jesus and Mary Chain. With the lineup expansion, the band also included one Ian Braude on guitar, who you mentioned. Plenty more about him later. Also at this point, Clive Langer, the guy whose idea this band was in the first place, also joined the band. The band recorded an eponymous single, big in Japan. That's what eponymous single means, so you probably already put that together. And again, not Alphaville, Big in Japan, but right then, later, another Pink Industry founder, Ambrose Reynolds, would join the band, along with one Holly Johnson, who would in the 80s, come to be known as the frontman of Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

[B]

Yeah, he was a good friend of Casey's and Casey was the one that introduced Holly to the rest of the band.

[A]

There you go. Ambrose Reynolds, who I already mentioned, would go on to form Pink Industry with Jane Casey and would also go on to found Frankie Goes to Hollywood with Holly Johnson and would also become the founder of Zulu Records. One last notable member to join the band in January of 1978 on drums was Budgie, who would later be a member of the Slits, as well as Susie and the Banshees as well as the Creatures. So that's the lineup. You got all that?

[B]

Yes, there will be a quiz. There's actually. There's a couple more.

[A]

Oh, what do you got?

[B]

Well, speaking of Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Paul Rutherford from Frankie Goes to Hollywood was involved with the band from time to time. And the other one that was loosely associated with the band was Pete Burns of Dead or Alive. Oh, freely, Yes. I have a quote from Jane Casey, please. She explained, Holly and I were into the whole Warhol superstar Plasticky mentality. Ian was the Most proficient musician while Bill was just off his head and remains.

[A]

So yeah, that checks out.

[B]

And they only released two singles.

[A]

A little bit more on big in Japan in June of 1978. Holly Johnson is replaced by Steve Lindsay, who was in turn replaced by David Balfi. A lot of lineup changes for a band that only ever recorded a very few singles. David Balfi would also later play keyboards for the Teardrop Explodes. Second time we've heard that name. He also would later play keyboard on Echo and the Bunnyman's first album, which he also produced some singles for. And he co founded Zoo Records as well later Food Records, who signed the Teardrop Explodes and Echo and the Bunnyman. Listeners of this podcast will remember Food Records as the record label for Jesus Jones. See accelerated culture, episode 52, Jesus Jones's Doubt and Blur. See episode 63, Blur's Leisure. You got a lot of homework to do here, Accelerated Culture Warriors.

[B]

But it all pays off always given the homework. And then one other thing I want to mention about that harkens back to that KLF episode that we talked about. Do you remember there was Ken Campbell's stage version of the Illuminatus trilogy.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And Bill Drummond was the set designer of the show. Ian Broughty and Budgie actually were musicians for that show. And Jane Casey was a performer, an actress in that show.

[A]

The alumni of BIG in Japan went on to do some really weird things is what it comes down to.

[B]

Well, yeah, but that was before big in Japan.

[A]

This is before 1977.

[B]

Yeah, it was in the 70s.

[A]

Okay. Well, big in Japan, drawing weirdos from the Liverpool and Merseyside scene and coming together for a short moment to create some weird, jokey punk and then go on to do really huge things about BIG In Japan. So apparently they were not actually terribly popular. It could be argued they're influential, but not popular. And in fact by some full on hate it. And that sum in particular is by Julian Cope, who was the lead singer and bassist of the Teardrop Explodes. That name again. Julian Cope. Sort of a notorious loudmouth jerk of the early alternative scene. He was the lead singer of the Teardrop Explodes and he hated BIG in Japan so much. Whether it's for artistic reasons, professional jealousy, couldn't tell you. But hate them he did, to the point where he started a petition and posted it in the Liverpool record shop Probe Records. A petition asking for BIG in Japan to split up the band. Especially Bill Drummond supported this effort. Bill Drummond said that if the petition got 14,000 signatures, Big in Japan would in fact split up and according to Cope, we got about nine. Nonetheless, in late August of 1978 the band did break up anyways. They released a post breakup EP from Y to Z and Never Again to fulfill contractual obligations and to pay off their debts. And in the 80s Bill Drummond would go on to become Julian Copes, the Teardrop Explodes manager. So just some funny inside baseball Liverpool musical politics. So remember that one of the members of BIG In Japan that I mentioned way back was guitarist Ian Browdy. He is in fact the subject of today's episode. Thank you for bearing with me on that long detour, but I feel like it was worth it just for the name dropping alone.

[B]

There you go. Right, yeah. So hey, before we get too much further into this episode, Scott, I do want to cite my sources. I mentioned that Q Magazine article just a few minutes ago. I've got a lot of sources for this one, so I just want to give a quick shout out to these sources. Lightningseeds.co.uk that's their official website.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Ian Braude of the Lightning Seeds Interview by Dan McIntosh on Songfax, July 28, 2022 How I wrote the Life of Riley by the Lightning Seeds Ian Browdy in Songwriting Magazine, March 2, 2020 this

[A]

will become important during the track by track.

[B]

Yes it will. The Lightning Seeds Biography by Jason Ankeny on allmusic.com all right, and Ian Finally Able to Live the Life of Riley By Rob Garrett May 8, 2017 thenationalnews.com so yeah, after he left big in Japan, he produced albums for a number of people that we know very well, including two albums for Echo and the Bunnyman.

[A]

Yeah, he produced early singles that would appear on Echo and the Bunnyman's debut album, Crocodiles. The rest of the album was produced by BIG In Japan member and Zoo Records co founder Bill Drummond Again all comes together. Ian Browdy also produced echo and the Bunnyman's third album, Porcupines. He also produced albums by Wallavudu, the Three O', Clock, lesser known but part of LA's Paisley Underground. Good band. Icicle works, although not the big debut album, but still the Bodines and the Fall, among others.

[B]

The Icicle Works in the Fall are going to become very important when we start talking about this album.

[A]

I totally knew that of course, and am not totally taken by surprise by that revelation. I think I fooled them.

[B]

I do have a quote from that songfacts.com interview and he's talking about Echo and the Bunnyman, but he's also talking about being labeled As a pop musician or a pop artist. So he said with pop, I always saw it in Andy Warhol, who would capture a moment in time and you put it on your wall or you put it in your record collection. Now that word pop, which I used to think meant. That doesn't mean that. So when I think of Rescue, when I think of the Killing Moon. Right. Those are two Echo and the Bunnyman songs.

[A]

Killing Moon being like the echo in the Bunnyman song.

[B]

Yes. And I think of Pure, which you mentioned, single by the Lightning Seeds and Sense. I don't see a great difference really from behind the Wheel. They seem the same to me to a degree in intent and creating these. There wasn't much difference.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

So in 1989, Ian Braude began recording alone under the name Lightning Seeds. Now, Scott, maybe you knew this. I did not know where the name the Lightning Seeds came from, but there's a connection to Prince.

[A]

Yeah. It is a misinterpretation of a Prince lyric from a Prince song, you know, and love.

[B]

Yes. Raspberry Beret, 1985.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Apparently the line is, thunder drowns out what the lightning sees.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But he. He misheard it. He heard Seeds. Incidentally, Scott, I had never read the lyrics of Raspberry Beret and oh my gosh, that is a dirty song.

[A]

Yeah. Filthy and fun. A little mean at times. Apparently the woman who wore Raspberry Beret is characterized as wasn't that bright, but she knew how to give a kiss.

[B]

Well, I mean, you know, she. She walks in through the outdoors, so.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Anyway, Ian Braude performed all the vocals and instruments on the band's first album, which was 1989's Cloud Cuckoo Land, and he also produced it.

[A]

Yeah. It's a one man studio project and you know, the people who I've mentioned this episode and that we were going to be doing Lightning Seeds, I generally got blank looks from them and I'm like, you actually know one of their songs and they're like, what is that? And like pure blank looks. And you know, it's. Now you're crying in your sleep. I wish you'd never learned to weep. That something, something, something there. Pure and simple every time. Yeah, you know the one. But I feel like that was a bang up rendition.

[B]

So. Yeah, that was their debut single.

[A]

I mean, when you say their.

[B]

That's his. That's his. Yeah. Well, yes, yes. What? I don't know what is a better way to phrase that then? But yeah, no, you're. You're right. So Pure, the song that you mentioned reached the top 20 in the UK and the top 40 in the Billboard Hot 100 here in the US. Then there was a follow up single, All I Want, which also reached the Modern rock tracks top 10 here in the US. Huh?

[A]

That one, I don't recall.

[B]

It wasn't as big. It wasn't as big. It was big in Japan. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

[A]

But yeah, the modern rock tracks was the alternative charts, so I wish I would have been clued into that one, but maybe I heard at the time and it just sort of didn't register.

[B]

Right.

[A]

One ear and out the other. Right.

[B]

So that first album was on Rough trade records.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

1991, Ian moved to Virgin Records and then resumed. You know, there were some production gigs in there, but he resumed his Lightning Seeds career and he drafted Simon Rogers as his studio partner in production. Now, Simon Rogers was a musician from the Fall.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

And you'd mentioned that Ian had produced the Fall, so there's that connection. And so Simon Rogers was his partner in producing, but also in the arrangements and the instrumentation. Rogers did help with the first Lightning Seeds album, but this is pretty much a partnership, this second album between Simon Rogers and Ian Braude.

[A]

All right.

[B]

The album as we know it was recorded at Ian Braude's brother's house in Liverpool. He brought in his 24 track tape machine and a microphone. There was no furniture in the living room, so he just kind of started composing on the fly. So, I mean, that's where this album started. It started in his brother's living room.

[A]

Cool. As good a place as any, I suppose.

[B]

Yeah. And Scott, if I'm not mistaken, this was your first time hearing this album, is that correct?

[A]

Yeah, I was largely unaware of this album's existence. I kind of thought of Lightning Seeds and I thought they were one and done with Pure. So everything about this is brand new to me. Okay.

[B]

All right, well, how I came across the lightning seeds. So 92. Right. I was working at the mall.

[A]

The mall?

[B]

The mall has it all. I had just moved in with a boyfriend.

[A]

Scandalous.

[B]

Yes. Well, you know. And for Christmas that year, he actually got me this album because I had seen, I think it may have been the video for Pure, I don't remember which. I knew I'd seen one of the videos on MTV by this time. Since I was living with him, I had TV again. Our listeners are probably like, wait, you said you didn't have a tv. You know, I saw Ian and, you know, he's got the kind of nerdy bull haircut, the horn rimmed glasses. And I'm thinking this is one of my people.

[A]

That's nerd pop, right?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. With a little bit of a psychedelic twinge to it. Yeah. And then as we move forward with the track by track, there's another tie in with this relationship with this boyfriend that I was with at the time.

[A]

So, yeah, like I said, my only exposure that I'm still aware of to the Lightning Seeds was because of the song Pure. Back in college, 1991, 92, was working with the University of Michigan sketch comedy troupe. I was actually head writer for that. And a couple of the guys in the troop, the director of the troupe, one of the regular players, the main actors, when the song would come on, they had a whole choreographed dance number they did to it. Part sort of dancing at each other from across the stage. That culminated in the two of them embracing and making out. It was very specific memory. I don't know why this song inspired this. Yeah, that one. That'll stick with you.

[B]

So Ian Braude was very much inspired by the use of sampling loops in 91 and 92. It was very common for hip hop music.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're going to hear a lot of that in this album in the track by track.

[A]

We are.

[B]

Yes, we are. So it did go to number 154 on the Billboard 200.

[A]

Not a high charting album. Which would explain why I maybe was not so familiar with it.

[B]

Right. It went to number five in the uk. All right, so one other thing I should probably mention, Scott, before we get into the track by track.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There are three songs on this album that are co written by Terry Hall.

[A]

Yeah, Terry hall, who in his own right has a prestigious pedigree within the new wave movement. Right?

[B]

Yes, yes. So he started off with the Specials. The two Tone SCA band.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

He was best known for songs like Gangsters, Too Much Too Young and Ghost Town, which Duran Duran of all bands actually covered a few years ago. That was a little strange.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So after he left the Specials, he and two other members of the Specials formed Fun Boy 3. He then went on to found a band called the Color Field and later did some solo work. But really, really underrated songwriter. Now unfortunately, he passed away on December 18th of 2022 at age 63. I hate that. Yes, pancreatic cancer.

[A]

Oh, that'll do it.

[B]

That spread to his liver apparently. But prior to recording this album, 1992 cents, Ian Braude and Terry hall struck up a little Bit of a songwriting partnership. And so actually, three of the songs on this album are co credited to Terry Hall.

[A]

Right on.

[B]

So on that note, I'd like to begin the track by track. So the first track is the title track. It's called Sense.

[A]

That's how title tracks work. They have the same title.

[B]

Okay, Mr. Eponymous.

[C]

I'm flying high on something Beautiful and aimless it's got a name that I prefer to call it Nameless it comes and goes and leaves me on a bed of splinters Feel like I'm living in a town Close down for winter the taste of love the more you get the more you want and all because the only reason is just because it all makes sense when you're near it all makes sense.

[B]

What do you think, Scott?

[A]

My initial reaction was this feels like the Happy Mondays, but without the swagger and without the cool. Like, it's well produced and it has that vaguely hip hop, slash dance inspired beat and that syncopated piano out of like piano House. It wouldn't feel out of place on a Manchester dance floor like the Hacienda or something like the same. I don't know. It's got slickness, but it lacks the. Again, the attitude and the cool. That was what made the Happy Mondays the Happy Mondays. Right, okay, so I don't know, the first track, it's got slickness. It's. What? Clearly a well produced studio outing. It didn't quite fully hook me yet, really, until the breakdown and the harmonica solo that come like halfway through the song. Legit harp work there. Dig the beat programming. So opening track is a mixed bag for me.

[B]

Okay, well, that harmonica that you mentioned, that's Mark Feltham.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He's also appeared on albums by Oasis, Talk Talk and Rory Gallagher.

[A]

Yeah, he's legit for sure.

[B]

Yes. I think that this is just an absolutely gorgeous song. Just from beginning to end, instrumentally. Lyrically, it's such a sweet love song, but it's a bittersweet love song. Right. It's about how love is addictive, but when it goes away, you know, then what do you do? Right. It comes and goes and leaves me on a bed of splinters all right, you know. Right. But I gotta tell you. What is it? The second verse. I'm standing high on tiptoes Looking over fences Waiting for someone like you to

[A]

kiss me senseless that is very sweet.

[B]

It's gorgeous. It is so, so gorgeous. And I mean, this is, to me, a perfectly crafted pop song.

[A]

Wow. All right.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

There, you know, I am a big Fan of the, you know, the perfect pop song. I'm not fully on board with this one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And maybe that is part of it, is the sweetness is the overriding sensibility musically, melodically, lyrically. And it may be that something inside me has died, and that's why I didn't vibe with it like you vibed with it. But I can appreciate that it is beautifully crafted for.

[B]

You're a grumpy old man is what you're saying.

[A]

I'm getting there, yes. Just a couple years from getting my card. I'm really looking forward to it.

[B]

Okay. Did you happen to see the music video?

[A]

I did not see the music video.

[B]

It's interesting. I'm not really sure what they were trying to accomplish. He's in an elevator, a tower. And the inside of the elevator has paintings that look like. What's the name of the guy that did the very special Christmas cover?

[A]

Oh, right. Keith Haring.

[B]

Yes, Keith Haring. It kind of looks like Keith Haring artwork, but more and more people keep getting on the elevator and the elevator starting to malfunction. And Terry hall is actually in the video. So if you watch the video in the far left corner, corner of the elevator, playing the guitar, that's Terry Hall. Yeah.

[A]

Nice to see him getting work.

[B]

I don't think that's ever been an issue for him.

[A]

I'm kidding.

[B]

Yeah. Terry did re record Sense for his debut solo album, home in 94.

[A]

And you can. You can pull that off in England in a way that you maybe can't quite so easily in the U.S. this album came out in 1992, and since the title track, the opener, was actually the second single from the album, and he releases it again as a single just two years later. That is. That is bold move.

[B]

Yeah. So, as you mentioned, Scott, this was the second single off the album. It was released on May 18th of 1992.

[A]

Well, okay, then how. How did it do as a single, I wonder Aloud.

[C]

The.

[B]

The song Sense did go to number 31 in the UK. All right, well, I'm sorry that that song didn't resonate with you the way it does with me, but. Oh, man. You know, if. If somebody sang that to me or said that to me. When you're near, it all makes sense. Oh, my gosh. My heart would just, you know, beat out of my chest. I'd be so, so flattered.

[A]

Lori's husband, Don, Are you listening? She's. She's giving you notes.

[B]

All right, that's all I have on track one.

[A]

Feels like plenty.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I guess that brings us to track two, the Life of Riley.

[C]

I'll be the guiding light Swim to me through stars that shine Find out and call to the sleeping world as they fall to us so here's your mind we'll find a way we're satisfied I get the feeling you'll be fine I still believe that in this world We've got to find the time.

[A]

Okay, so it opens with this accordion or Melodian intro.

[B]

It actually is an accordion. It is credited on the liner notes. Alan Dunn is the name of the accordion player.

[A]

Alan Dunn.

[B]

Mm. I actually, for the longest time, Scott thought that that was a synth, but no, it is, in fact a legit accordion.

[A]

Legit accordion. And then that big, like, simplified synth orchestral strike, which kind of feels like toned down New Order Technique era technique. The synth is big and dramatic. The production, it's going big. This one going for big and inspiring. And the melody of the chorus is pretty catchy and sing alongable. Yeah, they're. They're. They're swinging for the fences with this one. Yeah.

[B]

All right, well, from Songwriter magazine, that article that I had mentioned earlier, Ian said. I remember saying to the engineer when I was doing the strings, which were really fast and complicated, that I wanted it to feel like if you had a camera and you were 50,000ft above the earth and you dropped the camera and it was just coming down through the clouds, getting closer and closer as it was falling to earth. That's how I want these strings to sound. The beginning bit is meant to feel like everything is falling onto the planet. And so we've got that right, you know?

[A]

Sure. Dramatic. I feel like we're saying the same thing here.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. The song is actually about Ian's son, Riley. And so he wrote the first verse before Riley was born. And let me pull up the lyrics here. So the first verse. Lost in the Milky Way Smile at the empty sky and wait for the moment A million chances may all collide all right. So he's waiting for the moment when his son is going to arrive. I'll be the guiding light Swim to me through stars that shine down and call to the sleeping world as they fall to earth so the child's soul is coming from the stars and being born. And then the second verse he wrote after Riley was born. From cradles and sleepless nights you breathe in life forever and stare at the world from deep under Eider down, which I've never seen that word before. Apparently it's a very high quality, soft kind of down. That's used for comforters and the pre. Chorus. So here's your life. We'll find our way we're sailing blind it's certain. Nothing certain. And then the chorus is, I don't mind. I get the feeling you'll be fine. So it's all the nerves of a new father when you have a new child, especially if it's your first child. You know, there's this fear, like, how do I know what to do? Am I going to. Am I going to mess him up? Am I going to, you know, be. Be a good parent? And then there's that. I get the feeling you'll be fine. We'll find our way we're sailing blind. Right. That, like, maybe I don't know what I'm doing as a parent, but damn it, we're going to get through this together. And it's sweet, and it's hopeful and it's optimistic, and, you know, I know, Scott, you. You have no children, but it really does kind of capture child free.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It really kind of captures the fears and the hopes and the elation that comes along with being a new parent. And he does it beautifully. As a matter of fact, Scott Riley, as of, I want to say, 2009, but it might have been 2007, actually plays guitar with the Lightning Seeds now.

[A]

Riley, the son, the sun.

[B]

Right. So he's actually playing the song that was written about him.

[A]

And, you know, the phrase the Life of Riley predates this song by a lot. Yes, it's a saying in Britain that means, like, the easy life, the good life, a carefree life of leisure and wealth. There was a radio show, there was a TV show starring Jackie Gleason called the Life of Riley. But, you know, this easygoing life. And, you know, I'm not saying necessarily that Riley Browdie has it totally easy. It sounds like he's a working musician, but, you know, it seems like also pretty decent life. Nice work if you can get it, though. He. Riley, is in fact, living the life of Riley. From the sounds of it.

[B]

Who can say, right? I don't. I don't.

[A]

I did. Right there.

[B]

Okay. All right, all right. You're funny. You got anything else on this one?

[A]

Yeah, the song was the first single from the album, and it was kind of a hit. Made it to number 28 on the UK Singles Chart and number 2 on the US Modern Rock Tracks chart. So, again, the alternative chart, so I must have heard it at the time. But again, in one ear and out the other. What Are you going to do? Curiously, the song would go on to get even more lasting popularity, particularly in England where it was used by the BBC's football show Match of the Day, used for a Goal of the Month segment and later Goal of the Day segment, and that was used regularly until the mid 2000s.

[B]

So yeah, yeah, they're really well known

[A]

in the UK, particularly for the aforementioned involvement in English football. Not just for this track, but for one that comes post sense after this album. That is to say. Yeah, pretty popular band over there and they kind of slipped under the radar over here.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or at least under my radar. Apparently they had some, you know, modern rock tracks hit, so what the hell do I know? I'm just the co host of a well rated alternative music history podcast.

[B]

Yeah, you know, I don't know why they weren't bigger. I don't know if it's because Ian Br is not what you would consider a conventionally attractive singer. Unlike a lot of the other British musicians at that time. You know, he was kind of on the periphery of Brit pop, but he really wasn't Brit pop.

[A]

Right. I would say it's sort of that he's what you said right there, that he's not quite Brit pop, but he does have that jangle guitar pop thing. He's not quite Mad Chester, but a little after it. But using some of the techniques, he. I'm not willing to say whether it's because he's conventionally attractive or not, but he did play up visually the nerdy thing. You were saying the bowl, cut the glasses. He just telegraphed nerd, but without it being central to the identity of the music. And I would put that in contrast to some of the most famous musical nerds of the era. They Might Be Giants. Nerd was their whole bit, but they embraced that and ran with it and made it their brand. Where here it was maybe at odds with music that was trying to be dance floor cool jangle pop, it's sort of straddling a few worlds. Doesn't fully commit to any one of them and does it in a nerdy way that I think that's part of it.

[B]

I wasn't expecting you to mention they Might Be Giants. I was actually thinking of Devo.

[A]

Yeah, Again, really leaning into the Nerd, not just visually, but musically as well here. There's a bit of a disconnect there. I will say, I think the sweetness that you really loved about these first two tracks. That's not cool, man. That's not.

[B]

I mean, what happened to you Scott.

[A]

I mean, I'm just saying it's not that it's not cool to. How to say. I'm not saying one shouldn't do it. One shouldn't be sweet. I'm just saying that sweet and cool are kind of at odds with one another.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You don't think that's true?

[B]

Well, I. I think that is kind of the stereotype. Right. Oh, women like bad boys, right? You know? Yeah.

[A]

The occasional bit of crossover around this era, see Johnny Depp as crybaby. But even then, cool really won out, didn't it? I don't remember.

[B]

I think it's defined very differently than it was when you and I were coming up.

[A]

I think that's definitely true now.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that brings us to track three, Scott. This is called Blowing Bubbles.

[C]

The whole night talking in circles Searching for reasons to save us and keep it all painless all the lies we've had to swallow Just to face the world tomorrow.

[A]

This one feels like he studied the Happy Mondays for sure. Like that programmed beat that is part hip hop, part piano house, but with like a laid back tempo, you know, it also reminds me of, and this is a dated reference, but this is a retro music show. Reminds me musically of the beloved, but with like a tenor singing rather than the beloved smooth baritone lead singer. But yeah, it feels so very Happy Mondays in production and the kind of dance beat and the programmed tracks or sampled drums made into a very. A dance floor, friendly drum track. I may be lacking the requisite amount of whimsy in my dark, dark soul to properly appreciate it, but the Blowing Bubbles chorus bothers me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

My inner child may have met an untimely end, I can admit that, and that is sad. But I really like the intro. I like the verse and then the chorus loses me.

[B]

Okay, that's fair. And honestly, when I first heard this in 92, I felt the same.

[A]

And then what happened?

[B]

Well, it's since grown on me.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I did see you while you were playing the preview of this track, the 45 second clip. I did see you bopping along and singing along with the track. So I know you dig it.

[B]

Yeah. You know, one of the things that I really, really like is there's these synth strings that are just gorgeous throughout this song and they kind of punctuate the verses, you know, where it kind of reaches a little bit of a crescendo as he. After he says a line.

[A]

All right. Swelling strings do it for you.

[B]

Yes, yes. Swelling. That's a good word. Swelling you make my strings swell.

[A]

I don't need to hear about your.

[B]

Okay. All right. But I'm not really sure what's going on in the lyrics. A lot of Ian's songs are very ambiguous, and I feel like that that's intentional. Your whole world can turn on a moment Some things can come back and haunt you but they're too late to warn you Drinking in the dead of night Tobacco clouds that sting your eyes? You've locked your feelings deep inside Growing pains that never die hmm. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's evocative imagery. Yeah, but what specifically has happened here, other than somebody who's drinking and smoking the pain away?

[B]

Yeah. Obviously in denial about something. You need to sweep the picture clean and start to dream another dream and end this foggy yesterday that still reminds you.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I like the verses.

[B]

It's the blowing bubbles chorus that you don't like. Yeah. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. I mean, I said the same thing about man on the Moon last episode, didn't I?

[A]

You sure did.

[B]

Yeah. So that's fair.

[A]

Yeah. What are you gonna do,

[B]

move on to track four? Maybe.

[A]

I guess we'll do that.

[B]

Unless you have anything else on this one.

[A]

I don't want to be busted, so. No, I like the parts I like. I applaud those.

[B]

Okay. All right.

[A]

All right, let's move on, then. Track four.

[C]

Cool places. O Told you it's a cool place it's such a cool place Come on, come on tell me you're right make me believe Tell me what it feels like when you fall to the bottom I don't think it's over the devil's on your shoulder. Was the fool, was that fool

[A]

what if the House Martins got a hold of a sampler?

[B]

Okay. All right.

[A]

I mean, kind of what this one feels like.

[B]

This is the only song on the album that I really don't care for. Why? Because you don't like it either?

[A]

Yeah. And so I. I got to admit, I kind of hate the sampler work here. That. Like the sampled individual clips of chorus singing, or probably in Browdie singing, but then sampled and then chopped up and recombined. And. Look, I am no Luddite. You've heard me love sampling in the past. I love hip hop. I love trip hop, dance music of all kinds, where the sampler reigns supreme. And I don't know why this particular use of it rubs me the wrong way. And I think maybe, like that, it's doing kind of a acapella thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The sampled and chopped up vocals. And maybe ever since the TV show Glee, I've developed an irrational hatred of acapella. But this isn't acapella. There's. There's music, there's instrumental music and programmed everything. But I don't know. That part of the song rubs me the wrong way.

[B]

I agree. And it doesn't seem to fit. Especially the very beginning where they start off with those, you know. Ah, right. And then they come into the guitar, the acoustic guitar, which I'm like, is this a John Cougar Mellencamp song? What is he doing?

[A]

Yeah, no, for me, that's the house Martins part. Like the main groove of the song. The jangle pop rock backbeat groove part. Like the house Martins part of. What if the house Martins got a hold of a sampler? That part I'm totally down with. Jangle pop. It's inoffensive by its nature. And this is a solid, polished version of it. Yeah, it's a proud tradition of English rock that he's working in here. Just lose the sampler, man.

[B]

I say lose the guitar. Lose everything else.

[A]

Bang. Adjust the ooh ooh a bit.

[B]

No, I don't. No, no, no, no. I, I, no.

[A]

Well, all right. So far the album is mixed reviews from me. There are parts I like. They're parts that are not working, but. You got anything else on Cool place?

[B]

No, I do not.

[A]

Making short work.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that, that's okay. Right? Yeah. We don't have to do another two hour episode. Right.

[A]

The aforementioned Neptune was like, hey, man, have you ever thought about making the episodes shorter? And they're like, on the one hand, we appreciate you listening. On the other hand, I don't know that the feedback we're looking for is. I like it, but I would like it more if there was less of it. Some people like the long form episodes and they put it on and they have it in the background while they're doing their housework, Quite literally plowing their fields or whatever they might be doing.

[B]

Or my buddy Jeff, who listens while he's in the spa. Hey, Jeff.

[A]

Others who listen while they're running. A.J. dog or driving. Yeah, but you know, maybe if we come in under an hour and maybe we'll do that. If I stop talking about this, it's

[B]

not going to happen.

[A]

No problem.

[B]

This is us we're talking about. It's not going to happen. But I would like to move on to track five.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. So track five is where flowers fade. This is another one that was co written by Ian Browdy and Terry Hall.

[C]

You've got nine lives, I've got eight. I just can't wait to lock the door and throw the keys away. I'll call as soon as it's all over. Let's wait until the world is over the world is wide Manhattan Chase. Misguided missiles spin in space in the shade where flowers fade.

[A]

Question. What if the Happy Mondays stopped doing drugs?

[B]

Then I think that we'd end up with something like this. Yeah.

[A]

Answer is the lightning seeds. Where flowers fade. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's going back to that Manchester inspired syncopated piano chord. Well. That they've already been to and it's working well. Yeah.

[B]

I think it feels like three different songs kind of mashed together.

[A]

I can agree with this. Go on.

[B]

At about the 2 minute 45 second mark, just over halfway through.

[A]

Know exactly what you're going to say. Go ahead.

[B]

Okay. No, that's where it starts to get good to me.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that keyboard and horn bridge.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Yeah. Keyboards and horns in general. Really working here. Yeah.

[B]

I'm not thrilled with some of the lyrics in this song because some of it seems like it's lazy. Especially that line, you don't get smoke without a fire. Next time I'll vote for Billy liar.

[A]

This is 92. Which Billy are we talking about?

[B]

Well, I mean, this is in the uk, so who the hell knows? I mean, well, Bill Clinton was elected in 92, but I don't think this is about that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I just think it's just kind of lazy. Is looking for a rhyme. But then at that 2 minute 45.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then we have a spoken word that's repeated over and over. I hate liars, I hate cheats Waving flags and saving nations. Goodbye love, goodbye peace. I hate war. It ruins conversation. I guess that is just as appropriate in 2026 as it was in 1992.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. And. And I mean, then this would have been contemporaneous with the Gulf War. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

A little bit fully into it at

[B]

that point because, you know, he sings about misguided missiles spinning in space.

[A]

That sounds right.

[B]

So maybe I'm just speculating, maybe this has something to do with the political situation because of the Gulf War. But I don't know. I mean, Ian Browdy is not exactly known for political writing, but Terry hall is.

[A]

This is Terry hall co written joint. Yeah.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Oh, by the way, that trumpet that you mentioned, that's Roddy Lorimer. He plays trumpet and he plays flugelhorn and he's performed with Blur, the Rolling Stones, the who, the Style Council, Eric Clapton, Supergrass, Beyonce. I mean, this guy's resume is like a who's who of 21st century music.

[A]

Containing flugelhorns. Yes, pretty much, yeah. If you. If you couldn't get Maynard Ferguson or Chuck Mangione, you go with Roddy Lorimer. Lorimer, yes. Roddy Lorimer. That's what I meant.

[B]

All right, well. All right. Anything else on that one?

[A]

Yeah, I think that'll do it. All right, moving right along, we come to track six, A Small Slice of Heaven.

[C]

The laughing devil is chasing the angels away the dog is barking the baby's crying and rainy days are multiplying she says it's time to make decisions that turns on breakfast television let's try to try the truth did you leave behind When a small slice of heaven's own head could ever hold to find.

[B]

So this is another one that was co written by Terry hall, not Ice.

[A]

He does good work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. This is a beat I can get behind, a solid electronic dance shuffle beat. And then the lilting sequence synths behind it come in. So far so good. The strum guitars and. Well, are we approaching again? Syncopated Madchester piano chords it's not quite that, but it's pretty close. So, like, I really dig the intro and the verses and then the chorus comes in and the melody of that reminds me so much of ABC from the early 80s. Be near me all my dreams came true last night. Sorry, my voice is a little off this week, but, yeah, I love that track. And I also like this chorus. I don't like it as much as abc, but, you know, still good.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it gets us back to the primary groove. And I'm good with this all over again. Then there's a guitar line that reminds me so much of the Farm. Groovy train. Honestly, that's who this band reminds me of more than anybody else. A farm. Although the Farm, if they were fronted by Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys, but with way less sass. A nerdy Neil Tennant fronting the farm that I feel like is the lightning seat.

[B]

And you are not the first person to compare Ian Braude to Neil Tennant.

[A]

No, I can't imagine I would be.

[B]

Yeah. No, this is a really, really gorgeous song.

[A]

Yeah. Great track.

[B]

And this is where the album kind of comes full circle for me. All right, so, personal story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mentioned that my boyfriend at the time, who I'd been living with, bought me this CD for Christmas.

[A]

You did?

[B]

And it was this song specifically. She walks into town and pawns her eternity ring she's leaving home with a dream in her pocket and a photograph in a silver locket the party's over, she ain't stopping she's sick of lying through with crying Life's a trial but who did you leave behind? And there's a really kind of sad irony to this in that when I listened to this song, I realized I needed to get out of this relationship.

[A]

Oh, dang.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Really. This song was the catalyst.

[B]

There were other things that had happened. Right. I mean, it was.

[A]

This song put the spotlight on the fact that you were already aware of.

[B]

Yes, yes, exactly.

[A]

Homeboy buys you this album as a gift, and it helps you achieve the moment of clarity where you're like. And I'm out of here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, damn.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I mean, we only lived together for a few months, and I just realized he was the most boring person alive.

[A]

Ouch.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Pretty boring people. And you're saying he was more boring? He was boringer than them. Oh, that's. That's tough. That has got to be tough. Maybe he got more interesting in the interceding 34 years.

[B]

Not likely. The last time I saw him was maybe about 10 years ago. He was trying to enroll me in an mlm.

[A]

Oh, please tell me it was nutritional supplements.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, perfect.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Amazing. Amazing.

[B]

Definitely. Glad I got out of that one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, the relationships that followed were worse, but at least I got.

[A]

Eventually they got better.

[B]

Eventually they got better. Yes. All right, so, yeah, that's. That's my story about this one, but, oh, it is just such a gorgeous song, and it gives me the chills, especially that kind of counter melody or backup vocal. Life's a trial. Life's a trial, you know, where it's kind of almost overlapping. It just. It's really pretty.

[A]

Yeah, I dig it.

[B]

All right. Do we actually agree on a song on this album?

[A]

We do. Wow.

[B]

Okay. I'm writing this down in my notebook.

[A]

Small slice of heaven, apparently.

[B]

Yes. Okay. Anything else on this one?

[A]

No, I think that's plenty.

[B]

All right, well, then the next one is called Tingle. Tangle.

[C]

Holding back the tears can make you blind Screaming the new moon to swamp the sky Only time can melt the. The ice cream cloud you, frozen tears come rolling down. The tangle.

[B]

So. Tingle, Tangle.

[A]

I hate this title so much. And the way it plays out in the first two lines of lyrics. The tingle as you spin that web of lies leads to a tangle that hurts the more you try. I. I don't know why this angers me so much, but it really does. And then the lyrics go on. Only time can melt the ice cream cloud. Yeah. This is one of those lines that I'm sure I would be very proud of if I came up with it. I could admit this. My poetry is generally not great. And, you know, there's imagery there. I can get behind that. And I probably would come up with this line, for that matter, because someone very close to me really loves them. An ice cream clown. So, yeah, you know who you are, and I'm not going to out you on a global podcast, but you know that you love an ice cream clown.

[B]

So what are we talking about with Ice Cream Clown? I mean, like, I remember when we were kids, Baskin Robbins, they would do the ice cream cone, the sugar cone would be the hat, and then they'd draw the clown's face on the scoop of ice cream, and.

[A]

Yeah, that's what we're talking about. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. All right.

[A]

I mean, unless you have some other explanation for Ice Cream Clown.

[B]

Well, I don't know. Is Baskin Robbins big in the uk?

[A]

I don't. I don't know.

[B]

I kind of agree with what you're saying about the lyrics, but they don't bother me as much as, next time, I'll vote for Billy Liar. Okay. And that part about fighting in the bathroom, holding back the tears can make you blind. Again, the same relationship, the one that I mentioned that. I don't know why, but it's like, why would one of us always be in the bathroom when we start yelling at each other? You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And despite the silliness of some of the lyrics, you know, I think that this is a very pretty, melancholy kind of song. And. And, you know, you've said in other episodes, well, the lyrics don't really matter because it's just another instrument, but.

[A]

Yes, except they're so prominent here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And especially right there in the title and those first couple lines and the chorus with the ice cream clown and. Yeah, that said, production wise, musically, like, there's some really beautiful stuff happening in the actual music of the song. I would prefer it to be an instrumental.

[B]

Oh, geez. Oh, wow. I don't remember any time, Scott, that I think you've been this down on an album.

[A]

It's not always like that. You know, oftentimes we see albums where they load the end with the filler, and I don't think that is true of this album.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it is better for art to evoke a strong reaction than for it to evoke yawns or no reaction. So in that sense, we can say that this album is quite successful in that it has evoked a strong and sometimes violent reaction from me. And I am impressed with his musicianship and production. I have in the past wondered if. I just like everything and I like too much stuff and there's no actual teeth to the criticism here. And I. I wonder sometimes if that's true. And then I'm just too enthusiastic and too forgiving a critic. And this album at times has made me realize, no, no. Sometimes I'm. You know, I hope I'm not being too mean. I know the album is special to you and you like it, and I'm pointing out the parts where I really do like what's happening.

[B]

That's fine.

[A]

Lyrically, this. This track is not that, Scott.

[B]

We don't have to agree on everything. As a matter of fact, I seem to remember some pretty intense shouting matches you and I used to get into in our office.

[A]

So it has been a minute.

[B]

Yeah. So it's all good. It's all good. I'm just. I'm just kind of surprised. I really thought you would like this album more than you do.

[A]

Just wait, all right.

[B]

All right. Wait for what?

[A]

There's at least three tracks left.

[B]

I know, but I was gonna try to give you a nudge to move to the next one.

[A]

Oh, how about track 8? Happy.

[C]

You. How you love to see the sky and the reason why I can't help believing my perfect feel like a all senses come alive.

[A]

Is that a funk beat? Yeah, yeah. It's like a funk hip hop beat there. And I know I've referenced the Happy Mondays a couple of times today, but this track is really giving me that vibe. God's copy in particular, that God made it easy. God made it easy on me. And you know, I know that we busted on the sampled vocal Oz in a previous track there, but in this one I think it is working because it's less that micro sampled and calling attention to the fact that it is a chopped sample and just is giving, you know, chorus of Oz in a way that I think is really working. And for that matter, yes to a total Happy Monday sound. But also I think it's got some Soup Dragons or another accelerated culture episode we have done in the past. Feels a lot like electronic. You will recall New Order and the Smiths and sometimes Pet Shop Boys team up for sure. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that gives you the Neil Tennant connection once again. Particularly resonates bits of get the message Vibes.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I could totally see that. I could see that.

[A]

There's a very cool drum fill that happens. A sample drum fill. Really clanging drum fill that happens. And again, it feels a lot like. Get the message. This track really works for me.

[B]

You know, there's so many things I like about this song. I really like the bass. I don't know for sure whether it's Ian Browdy or Simon Rogers playing the bass. If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably Simon.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But I don't know that for sure. The thing that I was kind of trying to puzzle out is who is doing that backing vocal, that very deep all around you. Right. Because there's three backup singers on this album. Terry Hall.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Who we mentioned. Sure. Juliet Roberts. Obviously that's not Juliet.

[A]

Probably not.

[B]

And Ian McNabb. Ian Co wrote this song. You might remember Ian as the lead vocalist of the Icicle Works.

[A]

I will remember him as that. Yes.

[B]

And he does not have a deep voice like that either.

[A]

No, it tends to go higher. I'm gonna go ahead and say Terry hall based on nothing.

[B]

Okay. And I'm sure there's probably some electronic enhancement or something. This is a really good one. This is, I think, one of my favorites on the album.

[A]

I will concur. And again, strangely, coming in at near the end of the album, track 8 of 10, some albums front load it with all the good ones at the beginning here. Apparently they're saving it for a big finish.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, maybe. I don't know, because the two singles were front loaded. Definitely. Very interesting lyrics too. Melodies collide with situations Ecstasy defines its invitation Sweeter than a fulfilled promise Beautiful and always honest how you feel when love surrounds you how you love to look in her eyes Something never dies so this again is a love song. Right. I can't help believing in this perfect feeling Like a dizzy fairground ride Senses come alive I'm happy.

[A]

That is lovely.

[B]

It is. Yeah.

[A]

You know, he does the sweetness. Well, me, I prefer it to be accompanied by music that goes a little harder or funkier or dancier, I guess. But, yeah, in this case it's working.

[B]

So two thumbs up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. Anything else on that one?

[A]

That's all I got.

[B]

Okay. The next to last track is called Marooned.

[C]

Into the Stars. Bl One by one the angels drive Their lines moving in the sky Tonight. You can turn this world to sp Build a wall on your own you can close the window.

[A]

So this track opens with jangly pop guitars but that feels almost like Senegalese Afro Pop.

[B]

It's the drums. I love that, too. That very heavy kind of. I don't even know what you'd call it. Which part with the. The drums, the way it just kind of goes.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, it's got big drums, it's got that jangly guitar thing. I don't know. At this point, I'm just sort of free associating references. And then that big programmed electronic beat comes in.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Yeah. It reminds me of Chapter House also. How did we miss Chapter House? We made it all the way through 1991, and we should have done an episode on Chapter House, Whirlpool. And that feels like an oversight.

[B]

I've never heard of Chapter House.

[A]

Love them. Anyways, then, like, I don't know, later in the song, that horn line comes in. That's, like, so very English. It feels like processional.

[B]

It does, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. There's a lot going on in this track. It's a weird studio mashup of really disparate elements, but it comes together really nicely. I dig it. And.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I. I agree. There's also kind of a recurring theme in a lot of Ian's songwriting. Yeah. Okay. So, like, in this one. Built a ladder to the stars Plucked them out one by one the angels dry their eyes Marooned in the sky tonight so he does a lot of references to stars and space in the sky. I mean, we saw it in the opening track sense. As a matter of fact, I read somewhere. What were they calling this? Cosmic Scouse.

[A]

Ah, interesting. Ian Braude. The aforementioned BIG In Japan, most of the artists that we reference, they all came up in Liverpool. Right. And I was like, I know that you can call them Liverpudlians, but there's another name for somebody from Liverpool, and it's a Scouser or a Scouse. Right?

[B]

Yeah. Liverpudlian Just sounds a little awkward. Yeah.

[A]

Spouse is apparently a little bit derogatory, but also they reclaimed it and they call themselves that. I don't know. Well, Scouse, a term used in the title of one of my favorite songs by the Monkeys. Randy Git. Scouse. So, like a horny, stupid person from Liverpool. But the song is so good. It's a rare Mickey Dolan's Young song, and it's got this huge timpani drum thing happening. Highly recommend. Randy Gitzkouse. Anyways, what the hell were we talking about?

[B]

Cosmic Scouse. Yes.

[A]

There we go. That is the description of the Lightning Seeds.

[B]

Well, It's a genre of music that he eventually would produce for for some other bands. I think we're starting to see the

[A]

roots of it here, the seeds, as it were.

[B]

Yeah, I see what you did there. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, there's definitely a lot of, you know, recurring themes of sky and space and angels and spiritual stuff, but it's not heavy like some of the other artists that we've talked about. It's always very light.

[A]

Yeah. But, yeah, this one has a sort of spacious big feel. A lot of it is just due to the excess of reverb, particularly on the drum track. Super into that.

[B]

To me, this song feels like it would be the perfect end of the album.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

But it's not.

[A]

As it turns out, it's not. What is the end of the album is track 10. Thinking up looking down.

[C]

In all your life to treasure there. There's precious times Times when it's hard to. They touch you with the magic touch you shine.

[A]

Okay, so this one opens with that sort of tick tock, tick tock. And then this acoustic picked guitar and then these arpeggiated keyboard sequences that come in. And it really feels like a very sweet lullaby with a B. Right.

[B]

Okay. Now, I will say I don't like the ticking clock. It reminds me too much of Peter Pan, the crocodile.

[A]

That is oddly specific.

[B]

But you know what I'm talking about, right?

[A]

I do, of course, yeah.

[B]

Okay. You know, and I had just said that, you know, most of these songs feel like much lighter. They're not really serious. But this song then just made a liar out of me. Because it's about death. Right.

[A]

Digging into the lyrics. Yeah. Has someone died or have they just moved on? In a more metaphorical way. But, yeah, I hear what you're saying there.

[B]

You've shed that skin it's lying there where are you now? I hope it's heaven there they touch you with that magic touch and you shine and then later, towards the end, maybe with God on hand we might make it. This is the only time I can think of that he's actually referred to a deity in his songs. But then it just repeats over and over at the end. All I can say is I miss those days. All I can say is I miss those days. So it's definitely mourning. Whether it's mourning the death of a person or the death of a relationship or a friendship.

[A]

The death of a time. Yeah. It's a sad song, but it has, again, that sort of lullaby feel to it that in its way, feels kind of Hopeful and sweet and uplifting. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think this was very intentionally put to be the album closer. While you preferred track nine, Maroon, for its sort of big, spacious feel, again, that cosmic Scouse thing that he's just starting with this album, I think he's going for this as the closer to sort of capstone it with the signature sweetness that he does. And I think in this track he does it in a way that really works for me more than it did for some of the earlier tracks. That resonated more with you. I. I understand what he's going for here. Is it going to be like my new theme song when I walk into. No, probably not. But I see what he's going for and I think it is a well realized artistic vision. I. I get it.

[B]

It is a very beautiful ballad.

[A]

Yeah. The backup vocals that do come in later are giving me, again, more African pop vibes. Practically feeling like Lady Smith Black Mambazo on Paul Simon's Graceland at one point.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah. It's not all the way there, but it feels like it's kind of going for that direction. I don't know if there's any connection between Ian Browdie and Senegalese pop or African pop in general, but I feel like maybe he heard some of it and incorporated some elements. Maybe I'm making shit up. I don't know. I got to.

[B]

I was going to say, you know, I mean, there is that connection with Terry hall in the two tone ska movement, which was very heavily influenced by African and Jamaican rhythms. So maybe.

[A]

Sure. Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Very insightful of us.

[B]

Oh, yes. It's like we know what we're talking about sometimes. Sometimes, yeah.

[A]

Okay. Anything else on Thinking Up, Looking Down?

[B]

No, sir.

[A]

Okay, so charts wise, the album did relatively well critically. How would you say the album was generally received?

[B]

Very positive.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Anything specific to cite there?

[B]

No, I don't usually go into a lot of other people's reviews.

[A]

Fair enough. Just the single paragraph from the Wikipedia article. Trouser Press called the album a disgruntled production extravaganza and a strange achievement, but not an unpleasant one. Which is a bit of a left handed compliment, but I'm going to agree with it. The Washington Post wrote that the pop rock sound of the previous album, though not utterly transformed, has become softer, vaguer, more liquid. And I do think those are descriptions that we kind of have hit upon here. So I think it's well received. It's not a knock it out of the park album, but it definitely has some good things going for it. And one of the main things that it has going is Ian Braude's production, which does some really amazing stuff in there.

[B]

Absolutely. Well. So, Scott, I realize we missed this in the last episode, but we had so much we were trying to do. What is your favorite track on this album?

[A]

So I have a more limited pool to choose from than you do because some of the tracks just were misses for me. But track five, when Flowers Fade, I really dug a lot. Although looking at it, I think it's maybe because it sounds so much like the Happy Mondays, and I really, really dig Pills and Thrills and Bellyaches. So I'm gonna say that's a strong contender, but it is not the one for me. It was track six, a Small Slice of Heaven, because it sounds like the Lightning Seeds and no one else, and it does it really well. That, for me, was the big standout.

[B]

That's a good choice.

[A]

There are others that I liked, but, yeah, Small Slice of Heaven, we both agreed was a really strong one.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you, Laurie?

[B]

I'm going to go with track one, sense. Really? Yes. I just love that song so much. It's so gorgeous.

[A]

Right on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gotta go with one of the big singles. Right on. All right, Laurie? So then, as we always ask, once we finished the track by track and our favorites, and then what happened?

[B]

Well, this was basically Ian Browdie and Simon Rogers, but it pretty much started off as solely ian Browdie. In 94, he recruited a touring band so he could start playing live. Then another album followed called Jollification, and many people consider that, like, the peak. Oh, yeah, there's definitely some good songs on that one. I absolutely love Change. That is such a good song. So he went on to record a number of albums. So I mentioned 1994, Jollification, 96, Dizzy Heights, 1999, Tilt. In 2004, he released his first solo album under his own name that was called Tales Told.

[A]

That seems so unnecessary considering how much of an Ian Braudy vehicle the Lightning Seeds was, but I suppose contracts and branding and what have you.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not really sure. This is actually the first that I heard of it. I wasn't aware of that one. Two years later, 2006, Ian reformed the Lightning Seeds with a new lineup for live appearances and released a greatest hits album, Very Best of the Lightning Seeds. All right, then, 2009, another studio album, Four Winds, which Ian actually said, I didn't really want that one to come out, but it did. I don't know how that happens. Yeah, he says, I Never really toured it. I don't play it live at all. It's a lost moment in a way. And incidentally, he feels the same about that one solo album, that 2004 solo

[A]

album, Tales Told, which strangely, like, was critically well received and the fans loved it. Although it was much more folk rock, the more polished pop of the Lightning

[B]

Seeds, he called it quite unambitious. Yes. 2022, most recently, his last studio album that I'm aware of, See youe in the Stars.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He's continued to work as a producer and as far as I know, still active in the music scene. And I. I'm probably going to go back and. And throw this in 1996. Three lions.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That is a football anthem.

[A]

I know what you're talking about. Yeah.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Ian Braude and two English comedians.

[B]

Yes. David Battio and Frank Skinner.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that came out on 5-20-96. Now, football anthems are really strange to me, to my American sensibilities.

[A]

They too American Generalia.

[B]

Yes. Yes. I mean, like, one year, Chaz Smash from Madness did one. It's like a. A big thing every year. Who's going to come up with this year's football anthem? And Three Lions, Obviously that represents Britain's coat of arms.

[A]

Nothing is ever obvious to me when it comes to English football. I think it's bad news for English. We're not creative enough and we're not positive enough.

[C]

We'll go on getting back.

[A]

So strange.

[B]

Yeah, well, you know, they're weird about their soccer.

[A]

They sure are. They sure are.

[B]

Okay, Scott, I want to end this with a quotation I found from Ian on the website thenationalnews.com so this is from that article, Ian Braude Finally Able to Live the Life of Riley by Rob Garrett, 2017. I was always the underdog, he says. The Lightning Seeds was something that really took me out of my comfort zone. Just because it was successful, it almost forced me to get out and do gigs. So actually, these are the glory years. I love playing live, love the people in my band and feel in control of my own destiny. There you have it. All right, all right. So, Scott, you and I have kind of gone back and forth on this, but I think we finally reached an agreement for what we're going to do for our next episode.

[A]

That is true. It's a rarity that we do whole episodes on two albums by the same band, but this one, it makes some sense. They were separated by two years. And this album that we are going to be covering next time was a bit of a monster.

[B]

Yes. Although it wasn't monster.

[A]

Not to be confused with monster.

[B]

Right, right. So we're talking about the 1992 landmark album Automatic for the People by R.E.M.

[A]

yeah. It was a big deal and we'll talk all about it next time. We don't need to get into it now. We'll talk all about it next time.

[B]

Yes. So we'll be back in two weeks with Automatic for the People. It's a goodbye from me, Laurie, and

[A]

from me, scott free. We'll see you back here in two weeks.