Episode 81: R.E.M.’s “Automatic for the People” (1992)

Summary

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Accelerated Culture – Episode 81: R.E.M.’s “Automatic for the People” (1992)

Date: May 1, 2026
Hosts: Lori and Scott Free
Main Theme: A deep-dive into R.E.M.’s career-defining 1992 album, "Automatic for the People"—its background, composition, themes, cultural impact, and track-by-track analysis.

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Episode Overview

This episode of Accelerated Culture takes a comprehensive look at R.E.M.’s iconic 1992 album, "Automatic for the People." Hosts Lori and Scott Free blend their personal history with the band, critical perspectives, and rich musical details, all while exploring how the album represents both a sonic and emotional high point for R.E.M. The discussion includes a complete track-by-track review, notable production choices, cultural context, and personal reflections on the album’s lasting resonance, especially themes of mortality, loss, and nostalgia.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

R.E.M. in Context

• Band Origins & Early Success: R.E.M. formed in Athens, Georgia, in 1980, driven by shared musical loves (Television, NY Dolls), a DIY spirit, and eccentric early living/practice spaces ([05:53]).
• Critical and Commercial Ascent: The band’s 1980s run included essential alt-rock albums ("Murmur," "Reckoning," "Document"), consistent touring, and songs that soundtracked hosts’ formative years.
• Major Label Leap: After "Document," R.E.M. signed to Warner Bros. for creative control, yielding hits like "Orange Crush" and fueling activism (Rock the Vote, political/environmental themes) ([08:23]).

The Automatic for the People Era

• Album’s Significance: Widely regarded as R.E.M.’s finest—appearing on numerous top-100 lists. A shift toward acoustic sounds and darker, introspective, and more personal songwriting ([04:52], [19:19]).
• Writing & Recording Process: Many songs were written alongside "Out of Time." The intention began as a rock record, but most tracks ended as orchestral/acoustic ballads except for one true rocker ("Ignoreland") ([17:43], [18:03]).
• Band Dynamics: Instrument switching among members and a collaborative process, with lyrics often written after the instrumental tracks were complete ([24:28], [25:05]).
• Influence of Strings: Orchestral arrangements (by Led Zeppelin’s John Paul Jones) became a defining characteristic ([33:45], [34:44]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the shift in R.E.M.’s sound:

  “REM was actually instrumental in the Rock the Vote movement, using records to get young people to register to vote.” – Scott Free ([09:10])

  “The artwork on the album cover... It's a photo of... the star from the Sinbad Motel sign. Now that ornament is not there any longer. I guess Hurricane Andrew took it out.” – Lori ([22:05])

• Regarding personal connections:

  “Automatic for the People was the first REM Album that I did not buy... It may have been automatic for the people, but I was not one of those people. Oh, damn. Zing. Suck it under him.” – Scott Free ([14:21])

  “There were a couple songs on this album that kind of helped me through some rough patches.” – Lori ([17:24])

  “Yeah, we were all together. Lost in our little lives. That is... a bait and switch. And it can pass you by and not see that it happened, but it is, yeah, really poignant.” – Scott Free on “Sweetness Follows” ([70:12])

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Automatic for the People: Track-by-Track Breakdown

1. Drive ([27:20])

• Themes: Addressing “the kids” from a distance; quotes David Essex's "Rock On"; references national turmoil and political failures.
• Production: Sparse instrumentation, striking use of accordion and strings (arr. John Paul Jones), Queen-inspired arrangement.
• Notable Quote:

  “Michael Stipe also said that this is the first song that he ever wrote on a computer.” – Lori ([31:19])

• Video: Black-and-white, intense stage dive motif; Adam Scott appears as extra; Oliver Stone and River Phoenix on set ([37:09]).

2. Try Not to Breathe ([40:13])

• Theme: An elderly person facing voluntary death; meditations on mortality.
• Personal Impact: Hits harder with age and experience.
• Notable Quote:

  “22 year old me... had no context for this... Middle aged me who has recently lost a parent... this one hits a lot harder now.” – Scott Free ([42:55])

3. The Sidewinder Sleeps Tonight ([45:16])

• Theme: Whimsical, homelessness/houselessness, nostalgic references, playful wordplay, “Lion Sleeps Tonight” homage.
• Fun Fact: Michael’s laugh after failing to pronounce “Dr. Seuss”—the take was left in ([51:37]).
• Notable Quote/Mondegreen:

  “A survey a few years back in the UK, and it was the most common misheard lyric... people thought he was saying ‘calling Jamaica’...” – Lori ([50:11])

4. Everybody Hurts ([54:42])

• Theme: Empathy, preventing suicide; direct message for teens.
• Musical Style: 50s/60s soul inspiration; sweeping string arrangement by John Paul Jones.
• Personal Reflections:

  “I listened to this a lot on loop after my son died. I don't know how to explain it, just... I felt better. But it was comforting.” – Lori ([57:42])

• Notable Criticism: “It is an amazing vocal performance by Michael Stipe... I have a newfound appreciation for the strings...” – Scott Free ([59:03])

5. New Orleans Instrumental No. 1 ([64:35])

• Theme/Sound: Cinematic, evocative instrumental; recorded at Daniel Lanois’s Kingsway Studio in New Orleans.
• Standouts: Stand-up double bass, electric piano by Bill Barry, volume-pedal guitar as “foghorn.”
• Fun Quote: “We have now talked about the song for longer than the song lasts.” – Lori ([67:12])

6. Sweetness Follows ([67:24])

• Theme: Death, loss, the change in family bonds after parental loss.
• Emotional Impact: Strikes chords with listeners experiencing grief.
• Standout Lyric:

  “Yeah, we were all together. Lost in our little lives.” – Michael Stipe ([70:12])

7. Monty Got a Raw Deal ([71:47])

• Theme: Life of closeted actor Montgomery Clift; struggles of hiding one’s sexuality; Hollywood’s cruelty.
• Instruments: Bouzouki (Greek stringed instrument).
• Discussion: Parallels drawn between Clift and Stipe’s own sexuality; the pressures queer men faced in entertainment ([74:17]-[75:09]).

8. Ignoreland ([80:38])

• Theme: The album’s sole “rocker” and overtly political song; fierce indictment of Reagan/Bush policies, trickle-down economics, media soundbites.
• Notable Quote:

  “You can only go so far writing songs like that and get away with it. I can't do it all the time. And I don't want to pigeonhole myself into being a political folk singer in a rock band.” – Michael Stipe ([85:01])

9. Star Me Kitten ([87:13])

• Theme: Intimate, conflicted relationship; the "star" stands for a censored expletive in the title (“fuck me, kitten”).
• Production: Heavy overdubbed Mike Mills harmonies; inspired by 10cc’s “I’m Not in Love.”
• Discussion: Out of character for R.E.M., especially in its sensual explicitness and lush vocal layering ([88:46]).

10. Man on the Moon ([92:48])

• Theme: Andy Kaufman’s life/death/conspiracies; pop culture nostalgia; faith, doubt, and absurdity.
• Pop Culture References: Mott the Hoople, Monopoly, Fred Blassie, Elvis, wrestling, classic games, "Breakfast with Blassie," moon landing conspiracies.
• Notable Quote:

  “If you believe they put a man on the moon... If you believe there's nothing up his sleeve, then nothing is cool.” – Michael Stipe ([93:13])

11. Nightswimming ([102:48])

• Theme: Innocence, nostalgia, fleeting youth, skinny dipping; wistful longing for connection and freedom.
• Production: Piano by Mike Mills; string arrangements by John Paul Jones; features oboe.
• Personal Connection:

  “This is the song that I was referring to. Yeah, this song is absolutely gorgeous... the solitude and the freedom that that brings just so, so beautiful.” – Lori ([103:28])

12. Find the River ([112:08])

• Theme: Reflection, acceptance, journey, closure; water as central metaphor.
• Instruments: Mike Mills on almost all (bass, organ, piano, acoustic guitar, accordion), harmonies from Bill Barry, no Peter Buck.
• Tone: Gentle, country-tinged closer, written during "Out of Time" sessions ([113:40], [113:50]).

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Ending Discussion: R.E.M.’s Legacy and the Album in Retrospect

• Automatic for the People is praised as among R.E.M.’s greatest achievements: “From a songwriting and musicianship and performance standpoint, yeah, it is tough to argue with. This is a damn good album.” – Scott Free ([117:58])
• Album marks a mature, emotionally powerful point for the band—embracing themes of age, death, nostalgia, empathy, and hope.
• Personal favorites:
  • Lori: “Nightswimming” ([118:53])
  • Scott Free: “Sweetness Follows” ([118:14])
• Reflection on youthful musical snobbery and coming to appreciate the album’s depth with age and experience.
• R.E.M. continued to have hits and evolve after this record, eventually disbanding for good in 2011 ([115:17]).

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Memorable, Notable Quotes (with Timestamp & Attribution)

• “REM was alternative, but it was like an accessible alternative for a lot of folks. 1992, though, grunge has broken and gone huge... if REM had come out with an album that was distortion heavy and rocked, you can be pretty sure it would have been dismissed... as bandwagon jumping.” – Scott Free ([18:03])
• “Michael Stipe really does amazing work. At a couple points, it’s these little things. ‘They can pull you under. Live your life filled with joy and thunder. Yeah, we were all together. Lost in our little lives.’” – Scott Free ([70:12])
• “We live in America. Look around. We’re pretty much able to ignore reality... Most people are able to ignore all that and vote overwhelmingly for the guys who just out and out lie to you.” – Peter Buck (quoted by Scott Free) ([83:58])
• "It only took me 34 years." – Scott Free, on finally warming to the album ([118:04])
• "This song is absolutely gorgeous... the solitude and the freedom that brings, just so, so beautiful." – Lori on “Nightswimming” ([103:28])
• “It is an amazing vocal performance by Michael Stipe, and I think now as a singer myself... he is feeling it and he's making you feel it. I have a newfound appreciation for the strings as well.” – Scott Free on “Everybody Hurts” ([59:03])

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Resources & References

• Reviews and articles from Rolling Stone (Paul Evans, [22:44]), The Vinyl District (Michael H. Little), Classic Album Sunday (Colleen Cosmo Murphy), Pitchfork (Stuart Berman), Wikipedia, Genius.com.
• Personal stories and pop culture anecdotes adding lived context to music history.

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Useful Timestamps for Key Album Segments

• Band’s Backstory: [05:53]–[10:56]
• Track-by-Track Begins: [27:20] (“Drive”)
• Personal/Audience Reflections:
  • On loss, parenthood, grief: [42:55], [57:41], [68:06]
  • On sexuality, personal growth: [74:17], [78:53], [80:11]
• Political Themes & Discussion: [80:38]–[86:25]
• Pop Culture & Nostalgia: [92:48]–[101:50]
• Reflections on Age & Changing Tastes: [117:58], [118:00], [118:14]

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In Short

Accelerated Culture’s exploration of "Automatic for the People" is more than an album review—it’s a journey through alternative music in the early 90s, generational shifts, and the maturation of R.E.M. The hosts weave personal memories, pop culture, and sharp musical insights, showing how deeply the album resonates decades later—as a touchstone for grief, empathy, and the enduring search for meaning through music.

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Transcript

[Naomi Carmack]

The 1990s, my very favorite decade, especially for music. This is Dope Nostalgia, and I'm your host, Naomi Carmack, and every week we revisit the era that brought us Hammer Pants, Crystal, Pepsi, Pogs, Hyper Color, Pokemon, and some of the greatest songs of all time on Dope Nostalgia. Not only do I have episodes where I talk about the big artists of the 90s with friends, but sometimes those big artists come on the show. Past guests include Naughty By Nature, George Lamont, Alana Miles, Color Me Bad, Biff, Naked Ed, the Sock, Shakespeare's Sister, Too Unlimited, the Funky Bunch, Technotronic, Rosala, Tara Kemp, Mr. Big Honeymoon, Sweet right Said Fred, and so many more. Dope Nostalgia, a podcast made for 90s kids like me. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Music, Clodbean, Stitcher, and wherever podcasts are serving foreign.

[Lori]

Welcome to the Accelerated Culture Podcast, a sonic journey through the vibrant and revolutionary sounds of the 1980s and 1990s and now 2024. Webby honoree for best Indie Podcast. I'm Lori, along with my co host Scott Free, and in this podcast we explore how new waves stormed the airwaves in the early 80s and and gave way for the rise of alternative music in the 90s. Find us on the [e-mail].

[Scott Free]

Greetings and welcome back to Accelerated Culture Today, episode 81. I am one of your two co hosts and I am Scot Free and I'm Laurie.

[Lori]

Hello everybody. Welcome back.

[Scott Free]

Good to be back.

[Lori]

So Scott, before we get in today's episode, what have you seen? What have you done?

[Scott Free]

Right. What I have seen and done since last you and I spoke and spoke to the Accelerated Culture warriors out there is a little different than my usual laundry list of rock bands and DJs and electronic music musicians. I went last week to a matinee show of the Lyric Opera of Chicago's production of Madama Butterfly and this was an amazing production. It was stage directed by one Matthew Ozawa, who is the chief artistic officer of the Lyric Opera and was the stage director of this particular production. And, and it was just visually dazzling. The stage production and set design was an amazing technical feat. It's Madame Butterfly. It's set in like the 19 aughts in Japan, but here in this staging of it, it's actually set now and the Pinkerton character dons a VR headset and the entire opera about 19 aughts Japan takes place in his head in a virtual reality. So the whole set design has just incredible lighting and almost otherworldly costumes. And hair with strange bright colors and almost Tron like neon bordering a lot of the sets. It's really an incredible production. And Cho Cho San, Miss Butterfly was played by soprano Cora sun, and she knocked it out of the park. Just an absolutely incredible performance. So if you get a chance to see Madama Butterfly at the Lyric Opera of Chicago, you don't get that chance because it closed on April 12th.

[Lori]

Ah, too bad. Yep. My buddy Gustavo was at the show last week, and he said it was absolutely amazing.

[Scott Free]

So, yeah, the opera itself is always heartstring, tugging, and just achingly beautiful, but this particular production of it was visually stunning as well. So, you know, maybe once in a while, go to the opera, Accelerated Culture warriors and see what you can see.

[Lori]

All right, so, Scott, we both agreed on the topic of today's episode. We are still in 1992.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, it's really tough to talk about 1992 and not talk about today's album. It was one of the monster huge albums of that year and the biggest album for today's group.

[Lori]

Yes. So we are talking about Automatic for the People by rem, which many critics consider their best album, their finest. It's been on many top 100 lists of all time. I think this is the pinnacle for rem. I definitely do.

[Scott Free]

Those of you who are regular listeners of this show will know that when we introduce the topic of this week's episode, we get into the history of this band. Also, you regular listeners will recall this episode is episode 81. Just not too long ago, at episode 58, while we were still back in 1991, we covered REM's big breakthrough album, out of Time. So we've already done the history of rem. So instead of getting into it now, we're going to do what they do on TV. Previously on Accelerated Culture.

[Lori]

Our story begins in 1980 at the University of Georgia in Athens, Georgia. An art student named Michael Stipe, he was hanging out at a record store store where a guy named Peter Buck worked. They realized that they had very similar eclectic tastes in music. Bands like Television, the New York Dolls, the Heartbreakers, Richard, Helen, the Voidoids. And so Peter and Michael bonded.

[Scott Free]

So they were how old at this point?

[Lori]

Michael was 20 and Peter would have been 24.

[Scott Free]

Okay. All right. So the old guy working in the record store joins college band or forms a college band?

[Lori]

Yeah, yeah, in a manner of speaking. So Peter had just moved into a deconsecrated church that had been converted into apartments. The sanctuary area was walled off. It was vacant. And the only way you could access it was through a crawl space.

[Scott Free]

A rat.

[Lori]

Another person that lived in this same deconsecrated church was a woman named Kathleen o'. Brien. She knew another University of Georgia student named Bill Barry who played drums. So Catherine was instrumental in getting Bill and Peter together. And she was also present when Peter introduced Bill to Michael Stipe. A few nights later, Bill introduced Michael and Peter to his bass player friend, Mike Mills. Michael Stipes reaction upon first seeing Michael Mills was quote, no fucking way. Mike Mills was wearing bell bottoms, thick glasses, he had like a nerdy haircut. He was also falling over drunk, slurring his words. Apparently he belched in Michael sweet space. But Bill and Mike had been best friends for a long time. So Bill reassured Michael and Peter that Mike was a fantastic basist. He said he'll sober up, then you'll like him. They used that church sanctuary as a practice space and they realized that together they really did seem to have something very special. So on April 5, 1980, at Kathy O' Brien's birthday party at the same church, they had their first live performance.

[Scott Free]

Right on 1981 they released their first single Radio Free Europe on Hibtone Records and are quickly signed by indie record label IRS Records. They released their debut episode Chronic Town on IRS Records in 1982 and their debut album Murmur in 1983. They release a string of albums in the 80s that are stone cold classics on college radio and they tour relentlessly in support of those albums. For the 80s this is a hard working band. Those albums create one of the most consistent soundtracks of my own teenage years. Just a string of solid records, each one generally better than the one before it. Reckoning Fables of the Reconstruction, Life's Rich Pageant. This one was hugely important amongst my gang of guys in high school. Amazing stuff. Dead Letter Office, A B Sides and Rarities compilation and Document, which contains two pretty big singles for them that started to make people take notice of them. The One I Love and it's the End of the World as We Know it and I Feel Fine Document great album. Getting quite a bit of play on MTV and the band was starting to get frustrated. They were doing okay sales wise in the US but getting very little support outside the US and so having fulfilled the terms of their contract, they started shopping themselves around to other record companies and they took an offer that was not the biggest in terms of money, but that did assure them complete creative control over their output. And that was with Warner Bros. Records. Green was a remarkable album for REM they went significantly harder on Political content and particularly a message of environmentalism. And REM Was actually instrumental in the Rock the Vote movement, which was so big at the time, using records to get young people to register to vote. Greene was also notable for producing two big hits, Orange Crush and Stand for A Lot of People. Green sets the stage then for this out of time

[Song Lyrics]

foreign.

[Scott Free]

Worth getting into because if you just wanted to know the history of the band, you could just read the Wikipedia or whatever. But we've read it so you don't have to. Yeah, but you know, we like to talk about our own personal histories with the band, with the album, with whatnot. So with my own history of REM I remember hearing Radio Free Europe and Southern Central Rain on the new wave and new music radio station in Detroit, WLBs Tinsley. I love you. Those 12 listeners from Detroit who remember that radio station will know what I'm talking about. Fables of the Reconstruction was one of the first records I remember buying with my own money by myself, which is to say without teaming up with my older brother, Dr. Dave. I remember we were on a family vacation in Massachusetts and I bought REM Fables of the Reconstruction, the Pat Matheny Group's first circle. Weird pick for a 15 year old, but you know, I was in band and played jazz and it made sense at the time. And Australian group Mental as Anything's if you leave me, can I come too? You know, what can I say? It was on deep discount sale and the title track is a great song, if a bit too clever and humorous in an Australian Joe Walsh sort of way. But I digress. REM was like one of the bands for me in my formative years. Life's rich pageant and document were in my high school years in heavy rotation as myself and my delinquent friends were driving around the suburbs of Detroit. And Carousing Green was a critical part of the soundtrack of my freshman year in college. And one of the aforementioned high school hooligan friends was my roommate in the dorms that freshman year. What up, Alvaro? Shout out. We agreed on most things musically and so Green was never far from our CD player that year. Put in a lot of time on that album. Out of Time, as we talked about in episode 58, was the point at which Rem and I started drifting apart. I bought the CD and actually bought a really visually beautiful collector's edition CD with lots of artwork in it. And it tied shut instead of. It wasn't in a jewel case, it tied shut with cords. And it was a beautiful piece. But REM Swung for the fences on out of Time, popularity wise. And out of Time was such a departure from what had come before. And it seemed to be going for more mass appeal, I thought, although in a really weird, particularly R.E.M. sort of way. So I don't know. It's not like I wanted them to toil in obscurity forever, but they just didn't feel like my band anymore after out of Time. And also Shiny Happy People remains a crime against humanity. So

[Lori]

Michael Stipe actually agrees with you. He's introduced it before when he was playing in concert as the worst song of the 90s.

[Scott Free]

Wow.

[Lori]

So, yeah, so you're in good company there.

[Scott Free]

So Automatic for the People was the first REM Album that I did not buy. Close friend of mine and writing partner in the comedy troupe that I was writing for in college did have it. And there were enough singles and videos from this album and they were huge, that I kind of felt like I didn't need to buy the cd. And that CD money could go to more Beastie Boys or Public Enemy or Primus or Pop Will Eat Itself or, I don't know, just other stuff. Okay, so I guess my thinking at the time was it may have been automatic for the people, but I was not one of those people. Oh, damn. Zing. Suck it under him.

[Lori]

The opinions stated by Scott Free do not represent the views of Accelerated Culture Podcast or its sponsors.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, they're crying themselves to sleep on their piles of money.

[Lori]

You are in rare form tonight, I'll give you that. Oh, boy. I don't know. If we actually talked about my history with REM we might have touched on it a little bit. I remember seeing the video for the one I love on mtv.

[Scott Free]

Ooh, yeah.

[Lori]

And that was the first I remember hearing them. My mother actually owned the CD Past Tense, because I swiped it from her. Much like the INXS kick CD. Sorry, Mom.

[Naomi Carmack]

The 1990s, my very favorite decade, especially for music. This is Dope Nostalgia, and I'm your host, Naomi Carmack, and every week we revisit the era that brought us Hammerpants, Crystal, Pepsi, Pogs, Hypercolor, Pokemon, and some of the greatest songs of all time on Dope Nostalgia. Not only do I have episodes where I talk about the big artists of the 90s with friends, but sometimes those big artists come on the show. Past guests include Naughty By Nature, George Lamond, Alana Miles, Color Me Bad, Biff, Naked Ed the sock, Shakespeare's sister to Unlimited, the Funky Bunch, Technotronic Rosala, Tara Kemp, Mr. Big Honeymoon, Sweet Ritestead, Fred, and so many more. Dope Nostalgia, a podcast made for 90s kids like me. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Music, Claude, Bean Stitcher, and wherever podcasts are served.

[Lori]

Then. Yeah. Throughout high school, most of the group of friends that I hung out with were a year ahead of me and my friend Don. Not to be confused with my husband Don, but my friend Don was just so obsessed with REM he was like the biggest REM Fan you could ever meet. So a lot of the music came to me through him, but also a lot through mtv. So there were a couple songs on this album that kind of helped me through some rough patches.

[Scott Free]

Really?

[Lori]

Yes. Which we'll talk about. But in doing research for this episode, I learned a few things that I didn't know. And I imagine this probably will overlap with some of your notes as well, Scott. They actually wrote a lot of the songs off of this album at the same time that they were doing out of Time.

[Scott Free]

There are a few where you can definitely get that sense. There are a couple where I'm like, this could be right off of out of Time or even Green. But yeah, yes.

[Lori]

And the intention was for them to do a harder rock and roll album. Now, I don't know what happened to that idea, because there's really only one song on this album that I think fits that definition.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, there is only one song on this album that rocks in any meaningful way, at least in the, you know, rock, horns, and rock sort of way. And that actually worked out for the best because, as we've talked about the Zeitgeist at the time, REM Was its own weird branch of alternative. And actually Peter Buck. Peter Buck actually once quipped, we are the acceptable edge of the unacceptable. Like, REM Was alternative, but it was like an accessible alternative for a lot of folks. 1992, though, grunge has broken and gone huge, and all the record labels are looking for the next Nirvana, and everybody is wearing flannel and playing guitars with a ton of distortion and loud, quiet, loud. And if REM had come out with an album that was distortion heavy and rocked, you can be pretty sure that it would have been dismissed by critics and fans as attempting to do bandwagon jumping and trying to be something that they weren't. So I think probably worked out for the best.

[Lori]

Okay, so as we listen to the track by track, Scott, you and our listeners will notice a lot of the songs in this album are, like, scaled back, acoustic, a lot of strings, which we're going to talk about, and the Subject matter of many of the songs is much darker. It's much more personal.

[Scott Free]

It is a melancholy album, to be sure.

[Lori]

But there are touches of whimsy in a few songs that we're going to talk about as well. There were six singles off of this album.

[Scott Free]

Half the album. One of the songs that wasn't a single is just barely there. It's more of an interlude, by the

[Lori]

way, it was released here in the U. S. On October 6, 1992. The album went all the way to number two here in the U.S. all

[Scott Free]

right, so the title of the album, Automatic for the People. I will admit, when the album came out, I was perplexed. You know, previous albums had been Murmur and Reckoning, fables of the reconstruction, life's rich pageant document. Automatic for the People made it seem like it was going to have a technological bent to it that didn't. It was perplexing to me. Right. It was a big question mark. So where did it come from?

[Lori]

Okay, so there was a diner or a restaurant in Athens, Georgia, which we know that is where REM Is from. It was called Weaver D's Delicious Fine Foods. And that was their tagline or their slogan, Automatic for the People.

[Scott Free]

Yes, they were paying homage to this Athens restaurant that they loved. But also that there may have been a sort of tongue in cheek recognition of the fact that they were now among the biggest bands on the planet. And the record companies had expectations that they needed to deliver hits now. And so what this album was also doing was producing hits. Automatic for the People.

[Lori]

Yeah, that's kind of how I interpreted it, too. Yeah, the artwork on the album cover's interesting, too. It's a photo of. I guess they were called Sputnik stars in the 60s. You know how you look at old vintage ads from the 60s, they have all these weird little stars and stuff on it. They recorded this album primarily at Criteria Studios in Florida. And this is actually the star from the sign of the Sinbad Motel, which was right down the street from the recording studio. Now that ornament is not there any longer. I guess Hurricane Andrew took it out.

[Scott Free]

Oh, dang.

[Lori]

Michael Stipe was the one that took the photograph. And they were actually at one point going to call the album Star.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. And, you know, they desaturated it. It's just in monochrome grays. And it really has this sort of hard, architectural, technological look to it, but in a sort of brutalist way. Would not have known that it was a, you know, advertising sign from back in the day. But now that I know that? Oh yeah, that definitely tracks the grayscale,

[Lori]

the black and white image. As you mentioned, it has a very kind of like Russian constructivist feel.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, yeah, I buy that. So as both Laurie and I are or have been in our careers, college instructors or professors, depending on our specific credentials. Professor Laurie we like to cite our sources, and I have quite a few here that I will be drawing from in the discussion of the tracks to come. So just to go through those, There is a Rolling Stone music review by Paul Evans from October 29th of 1992. So right when the album came out, he gave it five stars. By the way, an article from the vinyl district.com graded on a curve REM automatic for the people the from January 7, 2022 by Michael H. Little he graded it on a curve and gave it a solid A. From Classic Album Sunday the Story of REM Automatic for the People Album of the Month by Colleen Cosmo Murphy not dated, but you can find it at Classic Album Sunday. And from Pitchfork, an album review REM Automatic for the People by Stuart Berman from November 14, 2017 gave it a solid 9.3 out of 10 by the and tells you just from 19922017 2022. This album has made a lasting impact and people are still talking about it to this day, including us.

[Lori]

And definitely yes, yeah, so I kind of copped out a little bit on the research for this one, so my sources are going to be wikipedia and

[Scott Free]

genius.com sorry, I would say your sources are your memory of this album and your own reactions mostly.

[Lori]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. One other thing that we didn't mention, Scott. The demos, how the songs were written, the band recorded the instrumentals without Michael being present in the studio, and then they gave him a tape and then he wrote the lyrics separately.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, they were presenting relatively fully formed songs to Michael Stipe as it let him get through his lyric writing process more quickly and they would have, you know, finished songs a lot quicker than if he was in on the actual musical writing process.

[Lori]

Yes, and much of what the band did on this album is very similar to what they did on out of Time, where they were very frequently switching instruments.

[Scott Free]

Oh yeah, they were all over the place. And you know, the songs on this album are almost entirely credited songwriting wise, to the entire band, Michael Stipe, Bill Barry, Peter Buck and Mike Mills. But you'll see that there are some songs where one of them stepped up and pretty much wrote the whole thing and then Stipe comes in and does the lyrics and some unexpected ones as well.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

And, you know, that was their songwriting process. But the songwriting goals, again, kind of implied in that title, Automatic for the People. They were going for relatable songs that everyone would like, if not going for outright hits. But that article by the Vinyl District, Michael H. Little, I think, put it quite well on 1992's Automatic for the People, one of the finest LPs released that year, or any other year for that matter. Michael Stipe and REM Play Risk. The goal of the board game is to conquer the world. And that's exactly what Automatic for the People did. Sure, the LP had its detractors and haters, but they were holed up in Yakutsk and things weren't looking good. And I guess. I guess I was hanging out in Yakutsk that year. But in looking at this album now, what are we looking at 34 years later? Oh, dear God. Yeah. Totally different reaction. Totally different impact it has on me. Some of the songs that I didn't love then, I don't necessarily love now. A couple have grown on me and a couple that I had forgotten about. Hit hard now. So strap in, folks, we're getting into the meat of this episode. Let's dive into the track by track.

[Lori]

Yes.

[Scott Free]

And damn, that was a shameless mixing of metaphors. Like three different things there. Strapping in, meat diving. I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Lori]

Yeah, what else is new?

[Scott Free]

Hey.

[Lori]

Oh, you're a little slow on the uptake today, huh? Okay, so we are beginning with the first track as one does. This is called Drive. Hey, hey, kids.

[Song Lyrics]

Rock and roll Nobody tells you where. What if I ride? What if you walk? What if you rock around the clock? What if you did what if you want what if you try to get on then.

[Lori]

Man, I still remember the first time I heard this song. And it was late at night. The video came on on mtv.

[Scott Free]

Oh, man, that video.

[Lori]

It's intense.

[Scott Free]

Oh, yeah. A never ending black and white stage dive, mostly filmed from above with Michael Stipe just rolling around on a sea of hands and rock fans. And this becomes a theme, I think, through the album, or at least as how the album was received. Michael Stipe, he's beginning to become an aging rock star. And the crowd holding him up in this never ending stage dive. They're the kids. And he's saying, hey, kids, rock and roll. And yeah, he is playing to kids.

[Lori]

As a matter of fact, that's a reference to the song Rock on by David Essex, right?

[Scott Free]

Oh, yeah. I mean, the whole song essentially is a Rock on riff. The Pitchfork article that I'll be referencing, Drive quotes both Bill Haley's Rock around the Clock and David Essex's glam era hit Rock On. But Stipe's stern, menacing delivery seems to mock their calls for carefree kids in a time of national turmoil. Automatic for the People came out a month before Bill Clinton won his first presidency. But it bears the weight and the scars of what came before it, namely 12 years of Republican neglect concerning AIDS, poverty and the environment. REM was not afraid to get political earlier in their career. They kind of turned it off for out of Time and they mostly avoided, except for one song, not coincidentally, the one that Rocks, that we'll talk about late in the album. But yeah, this. This is Stipe talking to the kids, but where David Essex is saying, hey, kids, rock and roll. And he's one of them. Stipe here is talking to the kids about the kids from an outsider's perspective, as he's now an aging rocker. And yeah, it's a different perspective. It's a song that says rock and roll throughout it, but it feels a lot more like the acoustic stuff that we heard starting on REM's green and really heard quite a bit of in out of Time. It rocks in no real way, at least not in the again, rock, horns, distortion sense of the word.

[Lori]

So I found a couple things about this that I didn't know. The title drive came from the band's support of the motor voter laws, right, that allow you to register to vote while you're getting your driver's license. And that was a brand new concept back then.

[Scott Free]

Stipe was one of the guys who was pushing hard for it on mtv, among other places.

[Lori]

Michael Stipe also said that this is the first song that he ever wrote on a computer.

[Scott Free]

Really?

[Lori]

Yes. As far as the subject matter, everybody brings something else to it, right? Peter Buck called it a subtle political thing. Mike Mills said that it is telling kids to take charge of their own

[Scott Free]

lives for sure that nobody tells you what to do, right?

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[Scott Free]

Musically, it is relatively stripped down. And as an opener for the album, yeah, it sets a tone sort of little melancholy, a little bit spare, but you know, it's got the usual REM lineup. You've got Bill Barry on drums and various percussion, Peter Buck on, of course, guitars. And there's a rare for REM guitar solo, which is really just a slightly fuzzy melodic line. It's not like rock, but, you know, it's the one nod to that where the subject matter and the instrumentals kind of are in sync. Mike Mills usually on bass, also playing accordion. And it's really subtle, but it really makes the mood. Michael Stipe, of course, being all Michael Stipe all over it. But then there is an unusual thing for REM that makes it really lush. The rest of the relatively stripped down instrumentation, aside from. And that is that string section.

[Lori]

Yes, violin, cello and viola. The orchestral arrangements were done by the legendary John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin, one of my least favorite bands.

[Scott Free]

That's crazy. But yes. Those of you who are avid listeners of this show will recall that some episodes back I had gone and seen the Becoming Led Zeppelin documentary in the theater and was surprised to find out that early in his career, John Paul Jones and Jimmy Page were both session musicians who played on a lot of hits that you actually know that were not by Led Zeppelin, but the. John Paul Jones was an accomplished arranger of other people's music. He did the arrangement for To Sir With Love, among other things, that you're like, really? So he could arrange the hell out of a string section and did so on this track and much of the rest of this album.

[Lori]

And I think that that is what makes this album so distinctive to me, the use of the strings and the way on this song that the strings and the accordion blend, which is unexpected, you know, I mean, I remember listening to this and thinking, oh my gosh, is that. Is that accordion? But like you said, it's so subtle. And another interesting thing that I didn't realize, the producer of this album, Scott Litt, he also did a lot of the mixing and engineering. He was actually quoted as saying that the arrangement of this song was inspired by Queen.

[Scott Free]

Interesting.

[Lori]

Yeah, yeah, I did think that that was interesting. So movie a figure.

[Scott Free]

I wonder.

[Lori]

He didn't really go into much detail, but you know, Queen is known for these epic.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Huge, lush production, layered overdubbing and fascinating.

[Lori]

And Pete and Mike, Mike Mills and Peter Buck, they were both huge Queen fans, so it's not really that surprising.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I can see maybe in some of the more stripped, like we're not talking Bohemian Rhapsody Queen, but maybe like Dragon Attack or some of the more pared down stuff that they did. I'll believe it. Although as I said, I wasn't necessarily as excited as many people for this album to come out. It was an easy sell, this particular song, because I am just a huge fan of David Essex's Rock On 19. Weird hit, but so cool. I remember lifelong best friend who I've mentioned before, Rabba, he had rock on on 45. And yeah, I remember him playing it for the first time and I was like, I don't even understand when this song would have come out, but it's amazing. So when REM was just directly paying homage to it throughout this song, I was there for it.

[Lori]

That's fascinating. I didn't know that about you.

[Scott Free]

Which part?

[Lori]

That you're a David Essex fan.

[Scott Free]

Oh, I don't know that I know any David Essex beyond Rock on. But that song fricking rules.

[Lori]

Okay. And somebody did a remake of it in the 80s too. I can't think who that was. But anyway.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Oh yeah, that was Michael Damien. I want to say. He was a soap opera star who decided to make. Make a pop song, try to be the next Jack Wagner or Rick Springfield. That was 1989 and I found that song personally offensive because of how big a fan I was of the original.

[Lori]

All right, I got a couple more notes on the. Actually on the video, please. Oliver Stone was actually present when they were filming the video.

[Scott Free]

Why?

[Lori]

Well, I guess Michael was trying to get a film produced with Oliver Stone.

[Scott Free]

Okay.

[Lori]

And so he invited him to the set of the music video. He also invited River Phoenix because Michael and river were friends at the time. And apparently something happened and Oliver Stone got into a fight with River Phoenix in Michael Stipes trailer. Also the other thing I didn't realize about the video is, you know the actor Adam Scott, who's been in what

[Scott Free]

is the show called Party down and

[Lori]

Severance is the one I was thinking of.

[Scott Free]

Severance, yeah.

[Lori]

Apparently he's an extra in that video. So now I want to go back and I want to look at it again.

[Scott Free]

There are so many people in that video.

[Lori]

It's like, where's Waldo? You know? Okay, so as far as chart performance, yes, the single was released September 21, 1992, so it predates the album.

[Scott Free]

First single from the album.

[Lori]

First single, You Got It Here. In the U.S. it went to number 28 on the Billboard Hot 100, number one on the U.S. alternative Airplay chart. It also charted in numerous countries. Australia, uk, Canada, Finland, Germany. So, I mean, this was a really, really big hit for them. And surprisingly, it was omitted from both of their compilation best of albums.

[Scott Free]

Fascinating.

[Lori]

Yeah. Seems like a little bit of an

[Scott Free]

oversight or an intentional choice.

[Lori]

Perhaps. Perhaps. But, I mean, I have not listened to this in decades, and, man, I forgot how good this song was. You know, I still get the chills every time I hear this song, and that's true of a number of the songs on this album.

[Scott Free]

So, yeah, it's a really strong album opener, especially because it introduces the album with a sort of darker, more melancholy tone. And if you like that, boy, are you gonna like the next track. Are you ready to waltz Sadly I said, are you ready to waltz Sadly? Because it's track two. Try not to breathe.

[Song Lyrics]

I will try not to breathe I can hold my head still with my hands and my knees Eyes are the eyes of the old Shivering and bone I will try not to breathe this decision is mine I have lived a full life these are the eyes that I want you to remember.

[Lori]

Yeah, I was gonna comment on the three, four time.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lori]

But it feels less like a waltz and more like a sea shanty to me.

[Scott Free]

There is some of that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a fun little number about an old person awaiting an imminent death. So good times right there. The track feels like a continuation of older REM like, it feels a lot like Swan, Swan H, but without the old timey Americana troubadour shtick. Or from out of time. It feels a lot like half a world away. But anyways, let's talk about this track, please.

[Lori]

Lyrically, like you said, it's like an older person approaching death. The decision is mine I have lived a full life and these are the eyes that I want you to remember. So, to me, that is assisted suicide, leaving on your own terms.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, and that makes sense. That was, you know, pretty hot topic in news at the time. And in fact, the Rolling Stone review that I've read actually says, alluding, presumably to suicide, Dr. Jack Kevorkian. The song ushers in a series of meditations on mortality that makes automatic for the people feel as haunted at times as Lou Reed's magic and loss. But yeah, it's a. For a song that has a sort of, you know, bouncy, as you say, kind of sea shanty feel. Yeah, that's some. Those are some dark yet sweet lyrics. But it can only be so sweet when is someone waiting for and wishing for death.

[Lori]

There was. I don't know if this is true, but there was an urban legend that Kurt Cobain had been listening to this album when he killed himself.

[Scott Free]

Kurt Cobain was a big fan of REM Of Michael Stipes lyrics, and apparently of this album in particular. So I had not heard that particular bit of trivia rumor. But it does make some sense, Ben,

[Lori]

in the context of this song in particular. It's just like, ooh, shiver chilling. Yes.

[Scott Free]

I need something to fly over my grave again I need something to breathe I, I will try not to burden you I can hold these inside I will hold my breath until all these shivers subside like yeah, damn. 22 year old me. Had no context for this, had no way really to appreciate it and was I think dismissive of this album enough that I didn't really dig into the lyrics. Middle aged me who has recently lost a parent and in the last six years, both my parents. Yeah, this one hits a lot harder now, I bet. Yeah, yeah, no, it hits. And you know, again, you're in college and relatively carefree, or maybe more carefree than you should be. You just don't have that perspective. Michael Stipe was considerably older than me and I would say considerably more thoughtful, contemplative than I was or could ever hope to be. There is a point later in the song where Michael Stipe, I think, is his own backup vocalist's megaphoned off in the distance, responding to his own call like he's doing a call and response with himself in addition to the traditional Mike Mills backup vocals. Obviously Michael Stipe is like the voice and the guy, the front man of REM but do not sleep on Mike Mills backup vocals. He has a very distinctive voice. You can tell that ain't Michael Stipule singing. But he does a lot with those background vocals and just need to give Mike Mills his props for sure.

[Song Lyrics]

Yeah.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

So I guess that brings us to track three.

[Lori]

Yes, track three. The sidewinder sleeps tonight

[Song Lyrics]

isn't a number you can call the paper let it ring alarm time if I don't pick up, hang up, call back let it ring some more. I don't pick up, pick up the side While Sleep, sleep, sleeps in a car.

[Scott Free]

Well, let's get the obvious out of the way. Right out the gate. Much like Drive was an homage to David Essex's rock on Sidewinder Sleeps Tonight. Just right there in the title. Basically it's a. The lion sleeps tonight. If nothing else, a couple solid lion sleeps tonight references. The tokens, I believe, are the popularized version of that song, I think.

[Lori]

So that sounds right. Like that beginning that.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Well done by the way.

[Lori]

You do it better than I do. Oh my gosh. So you know, I mentioned earlier that some of the songs on this album are very whimsical. Yeah, this is a prime example. I love what Michael's doing with the lyrics here. So many fun references there are.

[Scott Free]

And I will admit at the time I kind of saw them as cheap as putting it too strongly. But nostalgia bait, there's. There's quite a bit of nostalgia bait in this song. Right. If nothing else, I mean, the Lion Sleeps Tonight itself is an easy hooky song from an earlier era. And Michael Stipe, fully 10 years older than me, born in 1960, so a later baby boomer, but definitely a baby boomer. Right. There are some baby boomer references peppered throughout this song and throughout the album. And I don't know, jaded 22 year old that I was, I guess I felt they were a little bit cheap, but I think I did not at the time really understand what he was going for. It's not just nostalgia bait. They are not just there to evoke the earlier time. They're doing that with a point that I was too self righteous a hipster at the time to get. It's taking these dustier old references from his youth that are sort of emblematic of that post war period of the idealism, I suppose, of the baby boomer era and showing how it has kind of fallen flat. The promise of that era had not been fulfilled by the Reagan Bush years.

[Lori]

I always interpreted the song to be about somebody that was unhoused and crashing on people's couches or floors and needing a place to stay. Right. The first verse. This here is the place where I will be staying. There isn't a number you can call the payphone. Let it ring a long, long, long, long time. If I don't pick up, hang up, call back, let it ring some more.

[Scott Free]

And then we get to the chorus. And I mentioned at the beginning of the episode that I was a REM fan from the very beginning. I was old school with rem Your Southern Central Rain and Radio Free Europe and You know, early albums. And one of the things that was notable about Michael Stipe as a singer back then, people loved to talk about was that you could not understand a word the man was saying. He would mumble. And there's the vocal processing, right. Or like big reverb. It kind of sounded actually like he was singing in a tin can. Sometimes you couldn't understand what he was saying. But then you get to, like, document and green and out of time. And that's a thing of the past. You can hear every word he's saying. And you can really, you know, start to appreciate the lyrics, start to appreciate his poetry. But then we get to the chorus of Sidewinder Sleeps Tonight and we're kind of back to wait, what the hell is he saying? And it's not this time because he's mumbling, it's just because he's trying to pack so much into that line. Like, it's. Don't even try to wake. And there's so many syllables in there. And when it came out, I did not actually know what he was saying. Don't he try to make a. Don't he try to wake her? Like what? And like, I know that, you know, one of the things was like, is he saying calling Jamaica? And. I don't know. I did not get it for a

[Lori]

while in one of the articles that I read, Scott, that's actually what the listeners in the UK had heard.

[Scott Free]

Really?

[Lori]

Yes. They did a survey a few years back and it was the most common misheard lyrics, and this one was number one. It actually even beat out Purple Haze.

[Scott Free]

Excuse Me While I Kiss this guy. Yeah, the classic Mondegreen. I would love to see what some of the other interpretations were, but, yeah, not Michael Stipes most intelligible delivery, but quality nonetheless.

[Lori]

And then later on in the song where he's talking about instant soup doesn't really grab me today. I need something more sub, sub, sub substantial.

[Scott Free]

Right.

[Lori]

A can of beans or black eyed peace Some Nescafe and ice A candy

[Scott Free]

bar A falling star Or a reading from Dr. Seuss. And first off, I think that this line, the Dr. Seuss line in particular, is like, fully 30% of the reason that this song got the amount of traction that it did.

[Lori]

Do you?

[Scott Free]

Everybody fricking loves Dr. Seuss. And so, again, that was. It felt like nostalgia bait to me at the time. But it's also so catchy and I don't know that part I dug well, so I.

[Lori]

One of the first things I noticed when this song came out back in 92 is right after that line about a reading from Dr. Seuss. Michael kind of laughs.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, yeah. He laughs going into the chorus of the. Call me when you wake her up.

[Lori]

Right, right. He was having difficulty pronouncing the name and he kept calling him Dr. Zeus, but apparently that's why he was cracking up.

[Scott Free]

It's so great that that made it into the final edit, though. Human, kind of joyful. Yeah, it's fun.

[Lori]

Michael in one of his lighter moments for sure. Then towards the end of the song, there's a bridge. The Cat in the Hat came back, wrecked a lot of havoc on the way. Always had a smile and a reason to pretend but their world has flat backgrounds and little need to sleep but to dream. There was an interview somewhere where Michael was actually talking about that. And it's like a reference to cartoons where in cartoons the animals don't ever feel sleepy, but they sure do dream a lot, you know. And then the flat backgrounds. Right. Two dimensional world.

[Scott Free]

About that.

[Lori]

The other part of this song that I just love, though, I think I

[Scott Free]

know what it is. You talk about the setup of the song where, you know, he's on this payphone and he's making these calls. Can't get through. He gets through to somebody and says, tell her. Tell her she can kiss my ass. Then laugh and say that you were only kidding. That way she'll know that it was really, really, really, really me.

[Lori]

And I love that because we all have friends like that where, you know, we can say something that might be inappropriate in other circumstances. But, oh, that. That's just him. Right?

[Scott Free]

John Paul Jones once again doing Yeoman's work string production wise. And, you know, it doesn't rock particularly. I mean, it's an up tempo pop song, but it's got the. It's got the lush production. And in no small part due to John Paul Jones's arrangement of the strings.

[Lori]

Okay, so this was the third single released from the album. It was released on February 1st of 1993. And it's very, very rarely performed live by the band in the charts. In the US it went to number 24 on the Alternative airplay chart. It did go to number one in Iceland.

[Scott Free]

Weird.

[Lori]

The land of Bjork. Number 13 in Ireland, number 17 in the UK and number 29 in New Zealand.

[Scott Free]

So not one of their biggest hits, but, you know, respectable.

[Lori]

And it's one of those that I think is just immediately recognizable from the very beginning, you know. So.

[Scott Free]

All right, that brings us to track four. Everybody Hurts.

[Song Lyrics]

Life. Hang on, Don't let yourself go. Everybody cries. Everybody Hurts Sometime.

[Scott Free]

Right. So this track really is a throwback, right, to the 50s or 60s and to soul as much as rock. I want to say it echoes Otis Redding's Pain in My Heart, like hard, especially with those arpeggiated triplets. But that's like the same that. So many songs in the 50s and 60s that used that early rock and roll and soul and R B.

[Lori]

Right, yeah, of course. You know, I can't hear this song without immediately visualizing the video.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, the video was a big deal as I recall.

[Lori]

Oh my gosh, that video. The song gives me the chills. The video gives me the chills. So listeners, you might remember the video. It's the traffic jam on a bridge and you're kind of seeing different conversations that people are having in the cars. Some of them are funny, some of them are very serious and downright depressing. I seem to remember that there was a kid who was saying that she was being molested. You know, I mean, it's really, really heavy. And it builds just like the song builds to this crescendo when he gets to the hold on part. And then like everybody just gets out of their cars all at once and starts walking together. And that's the part that I get goosebumps, you know, it's like all of a sudden, all together as. As one, they're all doing the same thing and probably looking around and realizing that they aren't alone. Right. Which is the whole idea of the song. Everybody Hurts Sometimes Everybody cries so hold on, Michael, I know he said he wrote the lyrics as a message to his teenage fans. And a lot of people have said to him, this song got me through when I was feeling suicidal or, you know, the song got me through through a really, really rough part in my life. And I remember reading that Michael had said, you know, if. If I had that effect on even one person, you know, then that, that means a lot to me. I. I probably should have talked about the musicianship first, but bear with me,

[Scott Free]

you can get to it.

[Lori]

Yeah. I listened to this a lot on loop after my son died. I don't know how to explain it, just. I felt better.

[Scott Free]

But it was comforting.

[Lori]

Exactly. It's comforting, the idea that you're not alone, you know. Okay.

[Scott Free]

And so like you shared something deeply personal about your reaction to this song and why it resonated so much with you. And I want to make clear, like I definitely get it now. At the time in 1992, 22 year old young man Angry, maybe. Cynical young man, but, you know, whose problems were all of his own making. I definitely appreciated music that was sad and sometimes sentimental. But I think like, I think about the music that falls into that mood more that I was into at the time. And like there was plenty of music that was sad. The Cure, but it was theatrical and mopey in its sadness. Depeche Mode. But it had this cool and swagger to the sadness. And this is just pure and sincere sadness with empathy and hope. And I think that I was just thinking that I was too cool for that at the time.

[Lori]

All right.

[Scott Free]

I think it made me miss out on the experience because the more I've shopped this around to other people in telling them we were going to do this episode and. And I mentioned Everybody Hurts pretty much universally. People are like, oh my God, that's my favorite REM song. And I'm always like, that is just so not the reaction I had at the time. And I think it was a me problem because also it is an amazing vocal performance by Michael Stipe. And I think now as a singer myself, it's not again, a classically beautiful voice. It's got that Michael Stipe kinda line. But he is sending it right. Like he is feeling it and he's making you feel it. I have a newfound appreciation for the strings as well. John Paul Jones thing. It is a little schmaltzy, but it's not just that. It has this big sweeping sentimentality that when paired with Michael Stipes, really heartfelt vocals. Yeah, it works. I didn't appreciate it then. I do appreciate it now.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, it's a beautiful song.

[Lori]

Yeah. Apparently the majority of the song was written by the drummer, Bill Barry.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, you didn't see that coming.

[Lori]

Peter Buck actually said in an interview, Bill brought it in and it was a one minute long country and western song. It didn't have a chorus or a bridge, it had the verse. It kind of went around and around and he was strumming it.

[Scott Free]

And you know, for a song that is written by the drummer, largely very little traditional rock and roll percussion for most of the songs. For the intro, for the verse, it's a wood block on the 2 and the 4. And then during the bridges and the big orchestral swells, then the more traditional backbeat does come in. But it's not a rockin drum song. Bill Barry getting sensitive singer, songwriter on it and stepping out of his drummer role into songwriter role.

[Lori]

Another song that I've seen this compared to was Bridge Over Troubled Water.

[Scott Free]

I can see that. Particularly with the orchestral elements. Compliments of John Paul Jones.

[Lori]

Yes.

[Scott Free]

The Rolling Stone review. I had a pretty good take on it that addresses quite a few of these points. Okay, Everybody Hurts finds the band gaining a startling emotional directness. Spare triplets on electric piano carry the melody as sturdy as a Roy Orbison lament, and Stipe's voice rises to keeny power. When you're sure you've had enough of this life. Well, hang on, he entreats, asserting that in the face of rough truths that Automatic for the People explores hope is more than ever essential. Ooh, thought that. Well put.

[Lori]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Scott Free]

Pitchfork had a much funnier take on it.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

Either the most depressing song ever about trying to stay optimistic, or the most sanguine song about coping with depression.

[Lori]

Okay. You know, I had read somewhere that Michael Stipe had said that the song was inspired by Love Hurts by Nazareth.

[Scott Free]

Another one of those classic rock songs. Slow and ballady, but that uses that Arpeggiated guitar thing for sure.

[Lori]

Originally, this was intended to be a duet with Patti Smith, the Legend. Right. But for some reason that didn't pan out. I can picture her, especially in the second verse, where, you know, it's time to sing along. And then I don't know if it's Mike Mills in the background or if it's Michael Stipe. Overdubbed Michael Stipe. But there's kind of a counter melody going on there that's just gorgeous.

[Song Lyrics]

Sure.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

So this was the fourth single off of the album. It was released on April 5, 1993. 3. It did go platinum in the UK. In the US it actually went to number 29 on the Billboard Hot 121 on the US Alternative Chart.

[Scott Free]

That is saying a lot for the alternative chart because again, think about what's going on in the alternative chart in 1992. 93. It's rock. Rock is the name of the game at this point. And this song does not rock. It does a lot of things and it does them well. But rock ain't one of them.

[Lori]

No. It's a gorgeous ballad, though, and I don't normally like ballads. Yeah, but I love this one. It went even higher. Three in France, four in Iceland again and the Netherlands. And six in Australia, eight in Canada. This is one of their biggest hits.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Shows what 22 year old me knows.

[Lori]

I knew everything when I was 22 I don't know about you.

[Scott Free]

Oh, I thought I did. I was sadly, sadly mistaken about so much of it.

[Lori]

I wasn't. Everything was right. Everything I believed was Right. Anyway, that brings us to the next track, which is New Orleans Instrumental Number One.

[Song Lyrics]

Rolling.

[Scott Free]

One, two, three, four. If it hasn't been used as a cinematic driving montage, soundtrack, it really needs to.

[Lori]

Oh, Oh, I like that.

[Scott Free]

Driving through the American West.

[Lori]

I like that. Oh, the strings on this one again, are just absolutely. Oh, gorgeous.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. And electric piano work from Bill Barry.

[Lori]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Scott Free]

Again, the drummer coming out with stuff you wouldn't expect. But that is drummer Bill Barry on the electric piano. And that is the backbone of the song right there.

[Lori]

Absolutely. And that stand up double bass every. Every time I hear that pling, you know that. Oh, sorry. Get the chance.

[Scott Free]

Beautiful song. And sure, this is 2 minutes, 13 seconds, vocal free. It's just an instrumental, as the title New Orleans Instrumental Number One would imply.

[Lori]

And they did record part of this album in New Orleans, didn't they?

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I read that it was recorded like half in Athens, Georgia, and then elsewhere, multiple locations. So it would make sense that it's called New Orleans Instrumental because it was recorded in New Orleans.

[Lori]

Let's see. Yeah. Daniel Lenoir's Kingsway Studio in New Orleans,

[Scott Free]

who was making the rounds back then, for sure. There's a foghorn sound that comes in, which is Peter Buck on his electric guitar, just using a volume pedal to make it sing. And you know, Michael Stipe gets the day off the Vinyl District. That article I have referenced said that this track will rattle the change in your pockets. That bass, I think that you were talking about.

[Lori]

Cool. And we have now talked about the song for longer than the song lasts. Funny how we always do that.

[Scott Free]

That, I suppose, brings us to the next track, track six. Sweetness follows.

[Song Lyrics]

Radiant to bury your father and your mother. What did you think when you lost another? I used to wonder why it was when you bother Distance from one one to the other Listen here. My sister and my brother what would you care if you lost the other? I always.

[Lori]

You. You actually look like you teared up a little bit there.

[Scott Free]

The song's a little tougher now, huh?

[Lori]

Yeah. This is the one that I was thinking about you when I was listening to it. And I'm like, damn, you know, lost your father, lost your mother. The song seems to be about not just the loss of the parents, but then what happens to the siblings afterwards, Right?

[Scott Free]

What do the people who are left that you feel the grief and that the moment of that death, the experience leading up to it, and the moment and the immediate fallout brings you closer together. But then it is so easy to go about your separate lives. Separately and sort of lose track of the potential that that moment of connection brought. Yeah, this is a. This is a heart wrenching song.

[Lori]

Right, Right. No, especially that line, listen here, my sister and my brother. What would you care if you lost the other?

[Scott Free]

Right?

[Lori]

I always wonder, why did we bother? Distance from one blind to the other. So that got me to thinking when my grandparents passed away, because, you know, I was, as I mentioned in previous episodes, very close to my grandparents. And I remember one day visiting with them, and, yeah, it was obvious they were both declining, but I remember saying to. I want to say it was my sister Cindy. You know, when Gammy and Papa pass away, that's like going to be it. I mean, we're all going to kind of go our separate directions. You know what I mean? That they were the glue that was holding the family together. Sure enough. Although it might be due to the fact that we're all older, we're all married, there's children, you know, there's extended families, and we all aren't as close as we used to be. And I imagine that that's probably true of a lot of families as they get older. But, yeah, it's such a bittersweet, poignant, Right? Yeah.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. And there's. There's some beautiful lyrical flourishes in this one. Michael Stipe really does amazing work. At a couple points, it's these little things. They can pull you under. Live your life filled with joy and thunder. Yeah, we were all together Lost in our little lives. And that misdirect, I think, is amazing because when he says, yeah, we were all together, you're like, oh, we were all together. But what he's actually saying is, yeah, we were all together. Lost in our little lives. That is. Yeah, it's. It's a bait and switch. And it can pass you by and not see that it happened, but it is, yeah, really poignant.

[Lori]

Michael Stipe is a really, really underrated lyricist.

[Scott Free]

I think he's rated pretty well. But, yeah, you don't get a song like Losing My Religion to be a global mega hit without people standing up, recognizing some real songwriting, real lyrical talent there. But, yes, REM Is known more for the. The jangle and that Georgia flavored rock thing. But, yeah, Michael Stipe, he's. He is a poet.

[Lori]

Yes.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. No, it does remind me that I owe Dr. Dave a call, so.

[Lori]

Oh, what's up, Dr. Dave?

[Scott Free]

What up, brother?

[Lori]

Okay, next up, we have Monty Got a raw deal.

[Song Lyrics]

I saw the ocean meet the man I saw you buried in the sand, my friend Said a holy hand said walk all. So I. I went walking through the street I saw you strung up in a tree A woman out there said to me, Said, hold your tongue, hold your tongue. You don't own me anything.

[Lori]

So we've got the accordion and the mandolin going on here.

[Scott Free]

A bouzouki, in fact.

[Lori]

What is a bouzouki?

[Scott Free]

It is a Greek stringed instrument that is bigger than a mandolin, has that same kind of sound, but it's a deeper instrument. So Bazooki.

[Lori]

Okay, I learned something new.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, maybe.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Scott Free]

It should be noted that track seven, Monte Got a Raw Deal, is the first song on side two of the album, and R.E.M. always has named their sides. Oddly, it is not, in fact, side two. It is the ride side, as opposed to what would normally be side one, the drive side. On out of Time, it was the time side. And memory side. On Life's Rich Pageant, it was the dinner side and the supper side. So welcome to Rideside.

[Lori]

See, now, I never would have made that connection because I only had it on cd. So.

[Scott Free]

Compact disc.

[Lori]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Scott Free]

So Monty got a raw deal.

[Lori]

Monty did get a raw deal. Who's Monty?

[Scott Free]

You know, because of the presence of deal in the title, a lot of people thought it was talking about Monty hall from let's Make a Deal. I did another lyrical misdirect. The Monty, in fact, is Montgomery Clift. That's right. 50s 60s actor Montgomery Clift, who did get a raw deal, although somewhat of his own making, but also the system was stacked against him. And we'll talk about it.

[Lori]

Yeah. One of the things that we have talked about in previous episodes is Michael Stipes sexual orientation. You know, the fact growing up as a queer man in Athens, Georgia, had to be really, really hard for him.

[Scott Free]

And he was not actually fully out until 1994. So when this came out, he talked a little bit about his sexuality, again putting himself on the queer spectrum. But he dated women, he dated men. He was a little cagey about it, as he had every right to be. But you didn't know.

[Lori]

And what you described also perfectly describes Montgomery Clift. Yes, for all intents and purposes, I think he would be considered a gay man. He did have a few relationships with women.

[Scott Free]

At least one or two seemed like they were a beard helped out by the studio system to make him appear straight or keep the question out there. He was also pals with Elizabeth Taylor, which does not make much of a case for him being straight because she hung out with a lot of gay Men.

[Lori]

Yes. And she actually called him one of the great loves of her life.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Later in life, Montgomery Cliff had a multi year gay relationship with Roddy McDowell, among others.

[Lori]

He was also heavily involved with Jerome Robbins, who was a Broadway choreographer. And like you said, they kind of hit it by dating women. You know, supposedly Jerome Robbins came up with the plot of west side Story after a conversation with Montgomery Clift.

[Scott Free]

Oh, wow.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Scott Free]

Now the other thing, How Monty got a raw deal. Montgomery Cliff wrapped his car around a telephone pole or a tree. That was during production of a movie. The movie had to go on hiatus for a couple months, I believe, while he got extensive facial reconstruction surgery. He looked decent, but he did look different than he did going into it. And by that I mean going into that tree at high speed. And his face didn't work quite right afterwards. One side of his face did not have full range of expression. And he stopped getting parts. At least as many parts or the same kinds of parts.

[Lori]

Yeah, I guess that makes sense that that would be the raw deal because, you know, especially when you're in Hollywood, your appearance is everything.

[Scott Free]

Face is your money maker.

[Lori]

Right. I mean, just like Jennifer Grey stopped getting callbacks after she had a nose job. Right. Cause I mean, that was like distinctive. That was her look. But the other raw deal that I think he got is the fact that like Rock Hudson and a few other actors of the time period, he had to sneak around and hide his sexual orientation because if it had become public, he would have been blacklisted. You know what I mean?

[Scott Free]

Yes. Although it seems like one of those relatively poorly kept secrets of the time.

[Lori]

I mean, I wonder how much was known back then. It seems obvious to us in retrospect because, you know, we've read about it. I suspect, you know, this would have been my grandparents generation.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

You know, just like they were all kind of fawning over Rock Hudson. Oh, he's so sexy. He's so handsome.

[Scott Free]

A real ladies man.

[Lori]

Right, right, right. Too funny.

[Scott Free]

Weirdly, this is not the only rock song about Montgomery Cliff.

[Lori]

Oh, really?

[Scott Free]

Late 1979 on the Clash's London Calling, there is a song called the Right Profile where the chorus is. And everybody say, is he all right? And everybody say, what's he like? And everybody say, he sure looks funny. That's Montgomery Clift, honey.

[Lori]

Ah. You being the, like number one Clash fan.

[Scott Free]

Like number 17.

[Lori]

Oh, okay. You gotta fight the other 16.

[Scott Free]

This is a track that slipped by me during 1992. 93 listens. So I listened to this one with new ears. And it was fine.

[Lori]

Well, and you kind of have to wonder how much of Michael's own experience he put into these lyrics.

[Scott Free]

Oh, for sure.

[Lori]

He was probably dealing with something very similar. You know, we talked about Bob Mold a few episodes back, and same thing with him where he was gay but not out. And there was a lot of pressure even in the early 90s for rock stars to have a particular orientation. You know, they had to be attractive to the ladies. And I don't think anybody would have said that about Michael Stipe or Bob Mulk. Right. Well, maybe when Michael had the long hair. I liked Michael with the long hair.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Oh, by this point, he was losing the hair. He had already trimmed it down pretty tight for out of Time. And by this one, yeah, he was. Was wearing a lot of hats and then there was no hair at all. And people were speculating also because we're talking in 92, 1993, and they had been touring hard before out of Time. And then he shows up in that video looking gaunt with most of his hair gone. And there was always some question and speculation about his sexuality. There were people speculating that Michael Stipe had HIV and. Or aids.

[Lori]

Yeah, it was a weird, weird time.

[Scott Free]

It was.

[Lori]

Yeah. Well, that's all I have on that.

[Scott Free]

That seems like plenty. Okay, that brings us to track 8. Ignore land.

[Song Lyrics]

Marched into the Capital.

[Lori]

All right.

[Scott Free]

We said for the most part that this is not a rockin rock album. With one exception. Welcome. The one exception, Ignore Land.

[Lori]

Yes, it. It really almost seems out of place a little bit. But I get why it was important for them to put this on this particular album.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. This is also a track that I alluded to early in the episode when I said that Michael Stipe had been known in previous albums to make political statements in the lyrics, whether exhuming McCarthy from document or I guess, Fall on Me, which was an environmental one. He took out of time off and just made a pretty straight pop album with that one. Sometimes melancholy and sometimes country and sometimes Americana, but just lyrics about love and relationships and that sort of thing. And much of this album, automatic for the People. It is about human relationships and feelings and whatnot. Ignoreland. This is the one where he's like, we're getting political again.

[Lori]

Oh, yeah. And it's pretty obvious who this is about. There's the reference to the trickle down runoff pool. And you'll remember that Ronald Reagan was Mr. Trickle Down Economics.

[Scott Free]

We still haven't disabused ourselves of that particular note.

[Lori]

For Pete's sake. And then in the second verse, the information nation took their clues from all the sound bite gluttons. 1980, 84, 88, 92. 2. So 80, 84. Reagan was elected those two years. 88 would have been George H.W. bush, and then 92 would have been Clinton, who I've often said was the best Republican president of my lifetime. Yes, I know he's a Democrat.

[Scott Free]

It's funny because it's true.

[Lori]

Yes, yes, yes. They also mention a couple times, autumn 1979. And so right away, my mind goes to the Iran hostage crisis, which Reagan, we later learned, manipulated things behind the scenes so that the hostages would not be released until after the 1980 election.

[Scott Free]

Right.

[Lori]

There's also another reference to George H.W. bush where he talks about how to walk in dignity with throw up on your shoes. And do you remember when. I think it was in Japan, where Bush Sr. Like, vomited at a state dinner or something?

[Scott Free]

Classic. Peter Buck did talk a little bit about the politics on this album.

[Lori]

Okay?

[Scott Free]

And this is quoted in the classic album Sundays article that I've mentioned. We live in America. Look around. We're pretty much able to ignore reality. We have this great ability to pretend there's nothing wrong, that we're still a superpower and it doesn't matter if we kill a couple hundred thousand people. Oh, and Reagan lowered taxes. In fact, taxes were raised 12 times during his reign. He lowered rich people's taxes. He and George Bush made me rich, which is to say, Peter Buck. But my mom's taxes went up. She's a secretary. Most people are able to ignore all that and vote overwhelmingly for the guys who just out and out lie to you.

[Lori]

And funny how we're right back in the same position in 2026, aren't we?

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Yeah, we are.

[Lori]

Iran.

[Scott Free]

Oh, man.

[Lori]

Taxes. Republican president that lies.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, it's the 80s again.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Scott Free]

Anyway, Michael Stipe talking about writing political lyrics in general. You can only go so far writing songs like that and get away with it. I can't do it all the time. And I don't want to pigeonhole myself into being a political folk singer in a rock band. And, you know, for the most part, he didn't. But here on this track, especially that political folk singer in a rock band is back. The song actually legit rocks. There's guitar distortion, there's, you know, solo guitar lines, and then there's the little musical flourishes in the lyrics I mentioned earlier. You don't want to sleep on Mike Mills's backup vocals. And here it's really simple. But that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That, I think, is Mike Mills and maybe Michael Stipe just doing the backup vocals. And it just drives that song forward, makes it even hookier.

[Lori]

Well, and then there's one point where Michael's lyrics sound like they're being shouted through a megaphone, like they're being compressed. Like, I could almost picture it at, like, a political rally, you know, for sure. And there is a harmonica on the song and a clavennay. Am I saying that correctly? Is it clavenet or clavennay?

[Scott Free]

I believe it's a clavinet.

[Lori]

Okay. And that is Scott Litt, the producer, playing both instruments.

[Scott Free]

The clavinet, by the way, is rad. It is a keyboard instrument, but that sounds almost harpsichordish. The one place where you would have heard it and immediately know what sound we're talking about is the keyboard intro to Stevie Wonder Superstition. That is a clavinet.

[Lori]

Okay, so next up, we have Star Me Kitten.

[Song Lyrics]

Oh, a lifetime changed. What lies. And you can have one. You. You know the other two.

[Scott Free]

Now, when I said you don't want to sleep on the Mike Mills backup vocals, this is the track where it's just like, wow, that is a lot of Mike Mills. To the point where I was wondering if they had a Mellotron with Mike Mills going ah. On every key and that they were just going full Mellotron on it. But no, it's just editing and overdubbing. But that is a whole lot of Mike Mills and all that.

[Song Lyrics]

Ah.

[Scott Free]

And just so many of it and whole chords of it for the entire song. Are you getting 10cc? I'm not in Love. Oh, yes.

[Song Lyrics]

Right.

[Lori]

Yes, yes. Yeah, that's funny. I was listening to that this weekend, too.

[Scott Free]

That song is a soft rock banger.

[Lori]

Oh, yeah.

[Scott Free]

In no way. But, oh, my God, it's so good.

[Lori]

Yes. Okay, so the star is an asterisk.

[Scott Free]

Okay.

[Lori]

And the actual. What? What?

[Scott Free]

Oh, I now understand what the hell the title is talking about.

[Lori]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, the lyrics are, nothing's free, so me kitten.

[Scott Free]

Nice.

[Lori]

And obviously 92. We're coming off of Tipper Gore and the PMRC and all that crazy. So it's pretty obvious why REM might not want the word on their song title.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, probably.

[Lori]

It seems to be about a relationship that's very conflicted. Right. Keys cut three for the price of one. And nothing's free but guaranteed for a lifetime's use. I've changed the locks and you can't have one, so they're obviously in a sexual relationship, but they're not close enough that he's comfortable letting her have a key.

[Scott Free]

They don't get a key.

[Lori]

Right, right, right. And then towards the end of the song, you, me, we used to be on fire. If keys are all that stand between Can I throw in the ring? No gasoline. Just fuck me, kitten. So it seems like the partner wants to move in. The protagonist does not. If keys are all that stand between Can I throw in the ring? So implied that maybe, you know, this person wants a marriage proposal. They're on two different levels. Right. I remember hearing at one time a rumor that this song was about Courtney Love, but I don't see how that could be.

[Scott Free]

That seems unlikely.

[Lori]

Yeah, I know. There was a song on Monster that was definitely inspired by Courtney Love. Granted, Kurt and Michael Stipe were friends, so maybe. Maybe, you know, I don't know. So, yeah, the title, Star Me, Kitten. And then I mentioned earlier that Star was originally going to be the name of the album.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Oh, funny.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Scott Free]

That makes it make more sense.

[Lori]

Yeah. Honestly, that's probably my least favorite song on the album.

[Scott Free]

I mean, I think production wise, it's pretty cool. It seems out of character for this band, particularly now that I know what the star is talking about. Yeah. That is an unusual direction for them.

[Lori]

Yeah. To hear Michael singing those lyrics.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lori]

It's a little incongruous. Is that the word I want?

[Scott Free]

I think it is.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. At the 135 mark, the tone of the song shifts. It gets like brighter and cheerier. Like Michael Stipe seems to step out of this narrative of the lovers and the keys and the apartment and the shitty car. The car thing is actually, I think, kind of funny too. The brakes have worn so thin that you could hear. I hear them screeching through the door from our driveway. I don't know, just fun little detail. But yeah, at the 135 mark, it shifts in tone. It gets brighter. And Michael seems to step out of this narrative and he says, have I misplaced you? Have we lost our minds? Will this never end? It could depend on your take. And then gets back in. You, me, we used to be on fire if the keys that are all that stand between Can I throw in the ring? Yeah. It's an interesting, more complex song than some of them. And again, that lush production with the vocal sample or overdubbing thing, I think it's a cool track. I don't. It's not my favorite on the album, but interestingly, out of character. For this band in a lot of ways. And in that respect, noteworthy. Yeah, yeah, track 10. If you haven't heard this track, then you were asleep for the entirety of the 90s. It is man on the Moon.

[Song Lyrics]

Let's play Twister let's play Rest yeah, yeah See you in heaven if you make this yeah, yeah, yeah Now, Andy, did you hear about this one? Tell me how you locked in the pot,

[Lori]

Andy?

[Song Lyrics]

Are you goofing on elder? Are we losing ties? If you believe they put a man on the moon man on the moon if you believe there's nothing I feel sleep Nothing is cool.

[Lori]

Wow. Where to start with this one, boy?

[Scott Free]

Yeah, it was ubiquitous when this album came out and when the Andy Kaufman movie with the same name came out.

[Lori]

Right.

[Scott Free]

And this is another one of the songs where the lyrics are just chock full of baby boomer pop culture references that just hook the people in. Are they pure nostalgia baked? I don't know. You be the judge Mot the Hoople and the game of life. The song opens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Andy Kaufman in the wrestling match Monopoly 21 Checkers and Chess. Mr. Fred Blassi in a breakfast mess. Let's play Twister, let's play Risk See you in heaven if you made the list. So, I mean, that's just naming a lot of stuff that people born in, you know, 1955 to 1980. We're going to be like, oh, I like Monopoly. Oh, I like Chess. I like, you know, not the Hoople. Hot. The Hoople. Well, you know, all the young dudes.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Scott Free]

I don't know. This one felt a little nostalgia bait e to me, but I was actually okay with it.

[Lori]

Okay. The title man on the Moon. If you believe they put a man on the moon and it. That's probably one of the best known conspiracy theories, right, that it was all done on a soundstage in Hollywood or something.

[Scott Free]

Stanley Kubrick corrected.

[Lori]

No. Well, but another major conspiracy theory is that Andy Kaufman isn't really dead, that he faked his own death and his

[Scott Free]

comedy was pranksterism as much as anything else.

[Lori]

Oh, my gosh, yes. I grew up watching him. I remember him on Saturday Night Live as a guest musician performer.

[Scott Free]

Oh, wow.

[Lori]

Would you remember that with the Mighty Mouse where he's doing. Yes.

[Scott Free]

Classic bit. Yeah.

[Lori]

Yes. And then, of course, Taxi as Latke. And then I remember seeing his movie Heartbeats. It was a double feature at the drive in. It was ET and then Heartbeats.

[Scott Free]

Wow.

[Lori]

Yeah. So for me, it was a big part of my childhood. Is Andy Kaufman Now I didn't always get the humor. I didn't always get the more performative aspects of it.

[Scott Free]

A lot of people didn't get the humor because their. The humor was not there to be gotten. That this classic album Sundays article that I keep referencing does talk about one of his stand up comedy bits where he read from the Great Gatsby for 45 minutes until the audience was throwing things at him. Yeah, yeah, that was. And his whole wrestling bit and yeah, like it was all just a put on where he was amusing himself and seeing how far he could push the audience. And yeah, the speculation, especially once he had his Tony Clifton alter ego and Andy Kaufman would get booked to do a performance or appearance on late night talk show and Tony Clifton would show up instead. And from there it didn't become implausible that Andy Kaufman might have faked his own death. And then you get into the lyrics, Andy, are you goofing on Elvis? Andy Kaufman loved Elvis. So goofing on Elvis that, you know, he was doing his Elvis impersonation bit. But also Elvis, the other guy who famously was thought to be alive long after he was dead. Oh, so Andy Kaufman, Elvis hanging out, the whole being alive after they were dead thing, faking their own deaths.

[Lori]

And a lot of the other references in the song, like Andy Kaufman in a wrestling match. Right. And there was that whole thing that was staged with him and wrestling and that was another very controversial appearance.

[Scott Free]

He wrestled two lady wrestlers, I want to say. He also, yeah, wrestled actual male wrestlers and got seriously hurt in the process.

[Lori]

Right.

[Scott Free]

I'm just doing a real time fact checking. And apparently Andy Kaufman was not actually injured in that wrestling match. Delivered two pile drivers which were illegal and they stretchered him out of the arena, but he was not injured. And his subsequent appearances on late night talk shows in a neck brace talking about his injuries. Yeah, part of the bit.

[Lori]

And then a few lines after that. Mr. Fred Blassie in a breakfast mess. Fred Blassie was a professional wrestler in 83. Andy Kaufman was in a movie called My Breakfast with Blassie.

[Scott Free]

Okay.

[Lori]

With the wrestler classy Fred Blassie. And apparently that was a parody of a film from 1981, My Dinner with Andre.

[Scott Free]

My dinner with Andre was. Yeah, this, this dialogue between two friends who hadn't seen each other in a long time. And one is living a conventional life that he enjoys very much. And the other has had crazy experiences including, I want to say, an ayahuasca trip and is trying to talk about how everything in your day to day Life is just done because it's conventional. And that if you break out of conventional ways of thinking, the world totally opens up for you. It's a whole thing. But the most parodied movies of its time because it was just two guys talking for the whole time. And one of them was Wallace Shawn, who most people know from the Princess Bride.

[Lori]

Inconceivable.

[Scott Free]

Inconceivable.

[Lori]

Yes, yes. Anyway, back to the lyrics for a second. The whole second verse doesn't seem to have anything about Andy Kaufman in it. But I love the second verse.

[Scott Free]

Which one is that?

[Lori]

Moses went walking with the staff of wood. Newton got beaned by the apple Good Egypt was troubled by the horrible asp. So obviously that's a reference to Cleopatra. Mr. Charles Darwin had the gall to ask.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lori]

And incidentally, that. That kind of dispassionate yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That he does. I love I. That. That just makes the song for me. Okay, then that leads us back to verse three. Here's a truck stop instead of St. Peter's well, if he had died, there's St. Peter at the pearly gates of heaven. Right. Is Michael Stipe saying, maybe he didn't die?

[Scott Free]

That is what he's saying. Yeah. He didn't go to heaven. He's out in a truck stop out on the road, just being Andy Kaufman out there in the world.

[Lori]

It's a fun song, It's a whimsical song. And you know, it made Andy Kaufman cool again because I think for a long time people forgot about him after his death.

[Scott Free]

Alleged death, yes.

[Lori]

They named the movie the biopic man on the Moon after this song. REM Wrote another song for that movie. It was the one about pushing an elephant up the stairs.

[Scott Free]

Right.

[Lori]

Do you remember that one?

[Scott Free]

Vaguely.

[Lori]

Not as good as this one, but yeah.

[Scott Free]

I mean, this isn't stone cold classic and it was a pretty big single and it's so catchy in so many ways. The yeah, yeah, yeah that you talked about those harmonies in Andy. Did you hear about this one? That whole pre chorus, the very sing alongable chorus itself.

[Lori]

I do have to note the slide guitar.

[Scott Free]

Please do.

[Lori]

In this song it really works. And my buddy Mike is probably going to listen to this and say, laurie, I thought you didn't like slide guitar because I was ripping on it in another episode.

[Scott Free]

You recall hearing that from you.

[Lori]

Yes, in this case it works. And Michael Stipe initially wanted this to be an instrumental track, but the rest of the band came back and said, no, no, no, Michael, you need to write some lyrics. And apparently he went back and was watching some old VHS tapes of Andy Kaufman, and that's where the inspiration came from.

[Scott Free]

There we go. Well, that paid off big, because this was a big single. Yes.

[Lori]

Oh, it was huge. It was the second single off of the album. It was released on Lori's 19th birthday, November 9, 1992. Number 30 on the Billboard Hot 100. Number two on the US Alternative Airplay chart. Number one in Iceland again. What is going on in Iceland in 1992?

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

But, yeah, this was definitely one of their big hits. Well, Scott, we got two more tracks left. How we doing?

[Scott Free]

We're doing all right.

[Lori]

We're both yawning.

[Scott Free]

The energy level on these last two tracks works with that. Yawning because going from man on the moon, Arousing fun, sing alongable song. We get into the final two tracks, which are much slower and a little sleepier.

[Lori]

Yep. Am I odd? Yes. The next track is called yes, you are. Thanks, Scott. The next track is Night Swimming.

[Song Lyrics]

I forgot my shirt at the water's edge Moon is low tonight. Night swimming Deserves a quiet night

[Scott Free]

I'm

[Song Lyrics]

not sure all these people under Understand. It's not like years ago. Fear of getting caught.

[Lori]

Okay, so earlier, I told you one of the most beautiful songs ever written is on this album, and this is the song that I was referring to. Yeah, this song is absolutely gorgeous. Obviously, it's about skinny dipping. The fear of getting caught. They cannot see me naked but the solitude and the freedom that that brings just so, so beautiful. I mean, the piano. You know, if it weren't for the lyrics, the piano could almost be like a wedding march to me. Like, I could see a bride walking down the aisle to that piano.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I could see that. It gets weirder when you got the skinny dipping lyrics in there.

[Lori]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Scott Free]

For the fam.

[Lori]

As a matter of fact, in the liner notes of their 2011 compilation, Part Lies, Part Heart, Part Truth, Part Garbage, Michael Stipe wrote, there's a fairly autobiographical narrative to this one. And the part about the windshield really happens.

[Scott Free]

Oh, nice.

[Lori]

Yeah. Now, that contradicts an interview that he had given maybe 10 years earlier, where he said that it was about a night watchman. This was an Esquire magazine. He says, a few years ago, I wanted to write a song about night watchmen, so I hired one to guard the REM offices in Athens. I bought him a uniform and a flashlight and everything. He turned out to be kind of crazy and called me up in the middle of the night to tell me dirty Stories about the Kennedys. I wrote the song about him, but he was so paranoid, he said he was going to sue me. So I changed the lyric from night watchmen to night swimming. I kind of think that that's bullshit.

[Scott Free]

The lyrics do not bear that story out.

[Lori]

No, not so much. And then that third verse. September's coming soon I'm pining for the moon and what if there were two side by side in orbit around the fairer sun? Oh, that's. Oh, it's so pretty. I love it. I love it.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. And yes, the song has that imagery and, you know, the title, Night Swimming. It is about the. Well, swimming at night with a lover, as you say. But also really beautiful lyrically are the introductory, the first verse, lyrics that are the framing device that get you into that memory. The photograph on the dashboard taken years ago turned around backwards so the windshield shows Every street light reveals a picture in reverse. Still it's so much clearer. I forgot my shirt at the water's edge the moon is low tonight he's actually driving. And it is this photograph that he's seeing that is taking him in his mind back to this long lost love. And that night of night swimming. Right?

[Lori]

Yeah. And then Mike Mills also backs up the skinny dipping story. He said that it was based on true events and that after the clubs in Athens closed, they would all go skinny dipping. I love this song. It. It kind of evokes an innocence of, like, the teenage years, you know what I mean?

[Scott Free]

But, yeah, there's a wistful nostalgia for it because it's so long gone. Right. All he has is the sort of impressionistic memories of that time and what's happening now in the photograph on the dashboard, that's what's real and concrete. And it's about fading memory. Right.

[Lori]

And that fourth verse, You. I thought I knew you. You I cannot judge you. I thought you knew me. This one laughing quietly underneath my breath. So I guess come to the realization years later that these two people didn't really know each other as well as they thought.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. Yeah. And also there's this. It's now a recurring theme. We saw it in Sweetness follows after the death of the parents and the siblings, sort of going their separate ways and losing track of why that event brought them together. So that sort of forgetfulness that comes with time as your life takes over. And then here in Night Swimming, he's talking about the fear of getting caught, the recklessness in the water. They cannot see me naked. But then follows that with these things, they go away. Replaced by every day again. It's how we just lose those memories to time when we get caught up in our day to day life.

[Lori]

Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Free]

Musically, a couple notes. The one note I have at the beginning of this, my page of notes here is. Oh, man. Where'd the reverse reverb from the intro go to? It opens with this sort of reverse bit and then it just stops and then the piano comes in. Initially this was a demo, just Michael Stipod vocals and Mike Mills on piano. And that was pretty much the fully formed song until Enter Once Again, Led Zeppelin's John Paul Jones with the string arrangements and that. I think while you did say you liked the piano in its own right and it would make a nice wedding processional, man. Throw those swelling strings in there and it really next levels it. Right.

[Lori]

So if I'm not mistaken, Scott, the demo was actually cut during the out of Time sessions.

[Scott Free]

I believe that is true.

[Lori]

Yeah. And something I did not know is that the piano part was played on the same piano used on Layla by Derek and the Dominoes. Oh, yeah.

[Scott Free]

I learned something today.

[Lori]

Yes. And there's an oboe. I love oboe.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

Oh, yeah, yeah. There's an oboe in it.

[Scott Free]

I mean, I know that there's an oboe. I just did not know you were a particular aficionado.

[Lori]

You know, ever since I was a kid hearing Peter and the Wolf.

[Scott Free]

Sure. Classic.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Scott Free]

Dr. Dave. Dr. Dave in his youth, a virtuoso oboe player.

[Lori]

Oh, okay.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, He. He lost the ability to do that after a jaw surgery.

[Lori]

Oh, yeah.

[Scott Free]

He's still virtuoso on a bunch of other instruments, so he's doing fine.

[Lori]

Wow.

[Scott Free]

Yeah.

[Lori]

This one was released as a single on July 12, 1993. 3. It was, if I'm not mistaken, the fifth single off the album.

[Scott Free]

That is such a weird call for a single.

[Lori]

You really think so?

[Scott Free]

Oh, yeah, dude. Like, what does this have to do with the radio landscape of that time?

[Lori]

Well, nothing.

[Scott Free]

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm saying it's a weird call.

[Lori]

There's no guitar and there's no drums.

[Scott Free]

Right.

[Lori]

Which is very unusual for an R song.

[Scott Free]

So I guess the bass is provided by, well, the piano and the strings. But like. Yeah, that's just. It is a weird arrangement. You did not hear much like that going on in 1992. 93 pop rock music.

[Lori]

I guess Peter Buck and Bill Barry took this one off.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, yeah. Go out drinking or skinny something. Oh, and there is, as always, just the perfect Simpsons clip for this.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

Alcohol and night swimming, a winning combination. It's one of the Halloween episodes where the dolphins rise up and start killing everyone.

[Lori]

Oh, okay.

[Scott Free]

Lenny of Lenny and Carl is out in the water at night swimming with a bottle, and he's like, alcohol and night swimming, a winning combination. And then dolphin impales him.

[Lori]

You just are an encyclopedia of Simpsons facts.

[Scott Free]

Sadly, yes.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Scott Free]

That brings us to the final track on automatic for the people. Track 12, find the river.

[Song Lyrics]

The ocean is a river Skull. Need to leave the water Nose. We're closer now than light years Years to go I have got to find the river Burgam Vetiver Run through my head and fall away Leave the road and memorize as life will pass before my eyes Nothing is going my way.

[Lori]

We got both kinds, country and western.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. I was going to say this one feels like straight off of out of Time. And I believe this was written during the out of Time sessions, but it's pretty much the out of Time track. Country feedback, but without quite so much country or feedback.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Scott Free]

But pretty much the same. Yeah. But we have, in the final two tracks of the album, gotten into the slower piano y songs and the water theme songs. We had Night Swimming. We've got Find the River. And, you know, the ocean is the river's goal. Goes the lyrics to this track.

[Lori]

Yeah. The music was composed by Mike Mills, who plays bass, organ, piano, acoustic guitar, and accordion on the song.

[Scott Free]

Dang. Mike Mills going for it. Leave some music for the rest of them, man.

[Lori]

And it's Mike Mills and Michael Stipe and Bill Barry doing the backup vocals. That kind of. But Peter Buck is not on this one at all, so he takes the last two songs off.

[Scott Free]

Nice lack of work, if you can get it right.

[Lori]

This one actually was released as a single, which surprised me. It was the sixth single off of the album. There was a music video. I have not seen it, but I'm going to check it out now.

[Song Lyrics]

And

[Lori]

no, no real notable chart performance. Except in Iceland, of course. What's going on in Iceland in 1992. So, yeah, I guess that brings us to the end of the album.

[Scott Free]

All right.

[Lori]

And I know you and I are both kind of dozing off here because it's really, really late, but they don't

[Scott Free]

need to know about that.

[Lori]

Okay, well.

[Scott Free]

And then what happened? REM Went on to continue to be one of the biggest bands on Earth. The next album, Monster, was a monster. New Adventures in hi Fi Up, Reveal, around the Sun, Accelerate. Yeah, REM Was not hurting for huge albums or alternative and. Or regular radio hits and Then they

[Lori]

did collapse into now in 2011. So total of 50, 15 studio albums and automatic for the people was number eight out of 15.

[Scott Free]

So there you go. Yeah, long career ahead of them. You know, we have talked a little bit about. It was Bill Barry who had to drop out of the band, I think.

[Lori]

So he was in the band till 97 and then he occasionally came back for a one off appearance.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. So the band soldiered on without him. They have said in no uncertain terms that they will not be reuniting as a band for albums or tours or anything of the sort. Michael Stipe actually has a new song out right now, a new single.

[Lori]

Oh, really?

[Scott Free]

Yeah, it's a collaboration with Andrew Watt and the song is called I Played the Fool. And, you know, it's a pretty straightforward rock song. Pretty decent.

[Lori]

All right, I'll have to check that one out.

[Scott Free]

Yeah. All right. So for me personally, I mentioned at the beginning and sometimes throughout the episode here that I was somewhat indifferent to this album when it came out. Talked about why out of Time kind of lost me and how you could just go to the radio or MTV and hear many of the singles from this album. And there were many singles on this album. And so, yeah, I never really gave it a fair chance, I don't think. You know, it may have been that I was just kind of an insufferable hipster. It's that whole, you know, I was into it before, it was cool, and then once Out Of Time hit and everyone suddenly loved REM and I was just kind of like, eh, they're not cool anymore, man. And again, I think that is a. I think that is a me problem and not an RM problem. Because listening to it with fresh ears and I think a couple of the songs I've only heard a few times. This is a great album and there's no two ways about it. And I think the critics have all been saying this all along. Some say this is REM's best album. And while I don't have the sentimental attachment to it that I do with some of their earlier albums, from a songwriting and musicianship and performance standpoint, yeah, it is tough to argue with. This is a. This is a damn good REM album and just a damn good album in general.

[Lori]

So you finally came around.

[Scott Free]

I finally came around. It only took me 34 years.

[Lori]

Okay, well, welcome to the club.

[Scott Free]

Hey, thanks.

[Lori]

So, Scott.

[Scott Free]

Yes.

[Lori]

What was your favorite track on the album?

[Scott Free]

Boy, you know, I would have thought going into it that it was going to be man on the Moon. Monster single, Sing alongable. Just plain fun. But as I said, listening to it from a radically different perspective and set of life experiences than I did when I just barely listened to it in 1992. Sweetness follows the song death and grieving and mourning and moving on, for better or worse. That is an amazingly beautiful song. And.

[Lori]

Okay, that's a good choice.

[Scott Free]

Yeah, I'm going to go with that as my favorite.

[Lori]

Well, obviously Night Swimming. That is my favorite REM song of all time. So, Scott, have we figured out what we're doing on the next episode?

[Scott Free]

I believe we have. I believe we have wrapped up the whole album. Deep dives for 1992. There are other good albums out there, but we have been in 1992 for a long, long time. So what's left? We're going to condense into a single episode, as we did with 1991, an episode that we're going to call and the rest where you and I will each pick a number to be determined of albums and or songs that we feel like maybe we don't want to spend an entire episode on just that album, but that we would be remiss if we were to leave 1992 without talking about and recommending.

[Lori]

Okay, all right. Yeah, let's do that. I think that'll be fun. I've already got my list going, so

[Scott Free]

I've got some good ones.

[Lori]

Oh, so do I. I wonder if we picked the same ones.

[Scott Free]

I bet we didn't.

[Lori]

Yeah, probably not, because. Yeah. I'm finding out just how different our musical tastes are.

[Scott Free]

We are very different people, you and me.

[Lori]

So it's a goodbye from me, Laurie,

[Scott Free]

and from me, Scott free. We'll see you back here in two weeks.

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