C (4:00)

Yeah, great to be here.

A (4:02)

This is such a long time coming. I mentioned this is the first time I've ever actually done this where I'm just interviewing Miracle Morning practitioners, having a conversation about the impact that it's made in your life. And for years, one of my good friends, Brianna Greenspan, who runs the Miracle Morning Schools program, has said, we need a Miracle Morning podcast where all you do is have conversations with these amazing people who have had amazing Miracle Morning transformations. And so I was joking with y' all before we started the recording. Like, y', all, this is the experiment. So no pressure like this may determine whether or not we keep doing these in the future.

C (4:38)

Oh, that's great.

A (4:39)

Yeah. So thanks for being here today.

C (4:41)

Yeah, thanks for having us.

B (4:43)

Yeah, thank you very much.

A (4:44)

So I was preparing for today. I was reading up about both of you, and you both have extraordinary stories and extraordinary backgrounds like pre Miracle Morning, you know, Miracle Morning, I'm sure enhanced what was already there. But Holly, you are a former FBI Chief of Staff for counterintelligence, right? That was your background, Correct. Turned certified holistic health coach who helps women in Midlife? Yeah.

C (5:06)

Correct. Yes.

A (5:07)

Yeah. You might be the only one in the world that fits that description. Right. Like, pretty remarkable. All right, and then, Karen, you grew up on a farm in Kenya herding goats with your parents. And then, if I understand, money was tight, and so your parents couldn't afford to pay for your education, but your dream was to be a professor, and you somehow found a way, and now you have your PhD. Is that correct?

B (5:29)

Yes, that is correct. And when you think about, like, Africa and your stereotypical village kid. That was me.

A (5:37)

That's you. And. And you live where now?

B (5:41)

Right Now I'm in St. Louis, Missouri.

A (5:43)

St. Louis, Missouri. When did you move from Kenya to America?

B (5:47)

So in 2007. So after my parents and the situation that we were in, somebody was always ready to pay for my school. Like, I would find people, walk up to them and say, this is my situation. I really can't do anything else with my life, but I'm smart. Are you willing to help me with my school? And somebody was always there. And that's how I ended up at the University of Nairobi, studying Swahili and history. And then just before I finished, somebody said, hey, would you like to go to the US and teach Swahili? I'm like, sure. How does that work? Because. Just do it, Jerry. And if you get the right credit, then you'll get a scholarship. I only applied to one school, the Ohio State University, and I had what they needed. And that's how I came. They said, we're going to pay you to teach Swahili, and we're going to pay for your school fees. And in 2007, I ended up at the Ohio State University as a teaching assistant. That's doing Happy.

A (6:48)

It reminds me of the miracle equation, right? Unwavering faith and extraordinary effort. Like, you had unwavering faith, even though so many people in your situation would have been like, I have no money. My parents have no money. Like, there's no way that dream's ever going to come true. But you had faith that it would, and you put forth that extraordinary effort. You asked people, and then you made it happen. That's a beautiful story.

B (7:06)

Yeah.

A (7:07)

Holly, how does one become an FBI agent? Counterintelligence. Like, I don't even understand all of that.

C (7:15)

Yeah, that's a great question, Hal. So do you want to know how I got into the FBI or how I became a health coach from the FBI?

A (7:21)

Yeah, I guess, kind of sequentially both.

C (7:23)

Okay, sure. So this was post 9 11. I was actually doing some government consulting. I lived in Alexandria, Virginia. So right outside of Washington D.C. and it was just the big industry there. 911 happened. I applied for my security clearance and when I got my top secret clear clearance, one of my former managers contacted me and he's like, hey, do you want to come down to Quantico and work at the FBI? Which was a dream come true. I think. I had wanted to work there since I was 17. And you got to remember back in the early 2000s, the Internet was still relatively new. Systems were very antiquated and the agencies didn't talk to each other. So I actually, I was in project management. I wasn't an agent, but I would basically go in and take all the disparate pieces that came out of the 911 Commission and the WMD Commission from Congress, take these disparate pieces of the FBI and put them together. And I guess they liked what I did because when I was 38, which I was very young, they promoted me to the chief of staff, the GS15 chief of staff for counterintelligence, which was a huge honor because number one, I was young. Number two, I was female, Number three, I was not an agent. So that was just unheard of. And interestingly, and we can get into the full story a little bit later, but what I do now is I actually use the same tactics that we used in FBI counterintelligence in terms of looking at patterns and threats and trends, and use those same tactics to help high achieving women and successful women in midlife really break free from emotional eating so that they can get to a healthy weight. But more importantly than that, really be able to maintain those habits. So they have this for life.

A (9:06)

Wow. Wow. It's amazing how one of my early mentors said, learn something from everything. Right? Like that you can learn something from, for example, one business or a different industry and then go, how could I apply that to my industry? So I love that you did that. Right. And using that in your midlife coaching.

B (9:21)

Yeah.

C (9:22)

And a threat is a threat. I always like to joke. I said you've got Russian spies on one side and you've got cake day at the office on the other side. A threat is a threat. It's the same skillset.

A (9:30)

It's interesting. Yeah, that is really interesting. So getting into Miracle Morning, kind of that journey. And Karen, I'll go back to you. Just share the story of how you discovered the Miracle Morning and why you decided to give it a try. Where did you discover it? Why did you decide to give it a try? What were those early days like One.

B (9:46)

Thing I've loved about what you always say is the fact that there's really nothing new under the sun. So I've always been teetering towards what is out there. When I got to the US and it's a totally new world culture, I'm trying to figure out how do I navigate all of these things? And then, because, of course, being a scholar, you're always reading. And then the first time, I discovered seven habits of Highly Successful people.

A (10:15)

Yeah.

B (10:15)

And then I realized I've always been an early morning person. Like, I like waking up, but I didn't know the effectiveness or why. You know, the way you're always doing something, but you don't really know why you're doing it. So sometimes you stop and it's up and down, you know? And then in 2012, I just gotten married and I'm in St. Louis. I'm trying to write a PhD. I am isolated from my friends in Columbus. Like, I'm totally lost. And I was listening to a podcast, and this is January of 2013. So about a month after you had launched.

A (10:51)

Oh, wow. That's like. You were one of the first Miracle Morning book buyers. Yeah.

B (10:56)

Yeah. I heard about it, and I was like, it's so simple. Could it be that simple? So I went ahead and bought the book. At that time, I think Amazon was still just for books. So I got it and I started practicing it, and I was like, oh, my gosh, this is ridiculous, because here I am with all of these things that I need to do, but I was able to write my PhD in record time because I had this focus time, and then my fitness. Like, everything just came together. And at first I thought it was an accident, and then I would stop, and then my life would go back to being crazy. And I'm like, let's try this again. And we would get back to it. And so I knew there was something to it, and so it became a way of life for me. I don't even say, practice the miracle morning. This is just how I am at this point. And, like, I guess we'll talk about this later, about the impact on everybody else, everybody who's ever been around me, they know about the mirror morning, whether they like it or not, you know, So I love it. Like, that is. I literally tell people, for me, the Miracle morning was the turning point. I could always do amazing things, but there wasn't a pattern, There wasn't a framework. And that's what I always needed, a framework to remind me, okay, this is how you organize Your morning. And this is how you achieve amazing things. And it was beautiful when you came up with the miracle equation. Hopefully we'll get to talk about that later because everything just made so much sense to me. Yeah. So that's how I came in contact with the miracle morning for the first time.

A (12:35)

And so that was 12. Right. We're. We're in 2025, January. So it's 12 years ago. How often you said it's like it's a way of life for you. How often do you do your miracle morning? Or over the last 12 years, has it been consistent X amount of days a week? Is it like, have you had periods where you fell off? And again, we get more into that later. But how many days a week do you average your miracle morning?

B (12:56)

Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. It's really difficult for me to say that because that's just how I am. Like, I wake up, this is what I do. It doesn't matter at what, what. Because my wake up times have changed depending on what I'm working on. Like when I was launching my app, I needed to wake up at four. So my miracle morning moved to four. But now because I don't have a big project I'm working on, it's more laid back, but it's. All the savers are there. It's just been incorporated into who I am. So it's hard to say. But I will say that I do notice when I'm not as consistent as I could be, then my life quality is not as great over the years, like this ebbs and flow of life. But I always know what to go back to. So I will not go more than a month without being back to it because I don't like who I am when I'm not doing it.

A (13:47)

You notice the difference? Sure.

B (13:49)

Yeah. But I'm also not one of those people that I'm going for 3,000 streaks because during this time I also had my baby. And during that time, life turned upside down. Yeah, sure, I just did what I could. But if compared to another miracle practitioner, morning practitioner, that might not have seemed like it. But to me, it was the version that I could at that particular phase of my life. So I've just learned to be flexible with it, adjust it according to what state I am in life. And like, it's just me. Love it.

A (14:25)

I love it, Karen. And I'm the same way. It's like, even if I go away from it, it's the foundation, it's how I start my day. Kind of like if you eat breakfast in the morning, even if the wake up time changes, you're still going to get that done. Thank you for sharing that. Holly, what about you? When did you discover the miracle morning? How'd you discover it? What made you decide to give it a try?

C (14:41)

Yeah, so mine was 2019, but I want to go back and just share where I was before, because I think it really sets the stage of how impactful the miracle morning has been. I talked about my career. I was always very driven, very successful. Kara just mentioned the seven habits. That was my gateway drug in the mid-90s was the seven habits. And that just really catapulted my journey into personal growth and personal development. And so, you know, I had this successful career. I was a mountain bike racer, a competitive mountain bike racer, and an exterior triathlete. So I was that girl.

A (15:14)

Yeah.

C (15:14)

And then in 2010 was when everything changed. And I know, Hal, you were on my podcast. I think it was about a year or so ago. Not sure if you remember, but that was the year that I was diagnosed with breast cancer. So I know you and I are cancer survivors as well. So that was my 39th birthday that I was diagnosed, which was, interestingly how you always like to reframe things. At that time, obviously there was a lot of boo hoos and woe is me. But because I kept joking about breast cancer being my gift, very sarcastically, very snarky because just to try to infuse some humor to it, and because I was diagnosed on my birthday. And over that time, I kept saying, breast cancer is my gift. And then all of a sudden it was, oh, breast cancer is my gift. Totally shifted everything for me. So I went through surgery, chemo, radiation. And then what happened was I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's, which is an autoimmune disease right after cancer. And then 10 years of just really difficult health challenges, very subsequent health challenges. So bad, actually, that I had to resign from my dream job at the FBI. And those were very, very dark years, including way too many months where I just marinated in my misery. I was always that girl that strived to do everything. And there were days I couldn't get out of bed. I mean, it was dark. But then 2019, I was already in the process of starting to come out of that dark and starting to come into the light. I was starting to get my health back. I mean, present day, fully healed. And I was always a morning person. But as I was starting to come back, I'm like, I need to jump back into more personal development books and found the miracle morning. I don't even remember how. I just remember buying it on Amazon. And really, all of those foundational morning habits and even habits throughout the day were just completely gone. And the miracle morning just brought all of it back to life. And, yeah, that's how I started implementing it.

A (17:32)

And so that was 2019.

C (17:33)

You said 2019. So I guess it's been six years.

A (17:36)

Six years for you, Holly, and then Karen since 2013. So 12 years. Incredible. It's just. It's amazing. I think for anybody listening, right, if they're a new Miracle Morning practitioner going, oh, wow, this is like a lifelong practice, you know? Right. This isn't just something I do for 30 days and then move on to something else. Question for you too. How many days a week do you usually do it, Holly? Is it during the week? Is it weekends also? What does it look like for you?

C (17:59)

So for me, it is pretty consistent. I mean, I know Karen talked about who she is. Like, that's exactly the same with me. It's just who I am. It's just a part of me now. Do I do all five, seven days a week? No. But I do at least the first three. The silence, the affirmation, the visualization. I think they've been 100% since 2019. The other ones, I've altered a little bit sometimes if I'm not actually doing an active exercise, walk around the house, if I'm not actually journaling, I might be dictating notes into my phone of things that I'm thinking of. So it's not 100%. 100% of the days.

A (18:37)

Yeah, sure.

C (18:38)

But it has been a consistent practice and really has become just a part of me.

A (18:42)

Well, yeah, Anybody's listening, by the way, when she said not doing all the practices each day. Right. The miracle morning, if you're not familiar, and this is the first time listening to the podcast, the Savers, the six practices, the miracle Morning, Holly was referring to the first three she does, which is silence, affirmations, visualization, and. Yes. Your point, Holly? I don't do all my Savers every day. It's fluid. It's. What do I need? You know, I love Brianna Greenspan, who I mentioned earlier. Every day she'll start in silence and go, which Savers do I need this morning? Like, she'll literally just get in touch with herself and ask and then go, I gotta exercise today or I gotta do this. Right? So when I was new, it was all six every day. I always tell people if you're brand new to the miracle morning, I would do all six savers for 30 days so that you can know which ones impact you in which ways and how they resonate. And then you can kind of customize your routine from there on. It's interesting that Both of you, two of your first books in personal development were 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. I love that.

C (19:36)

It's the gateway drug.

A (19:39)

I love that. Right. So, Karen, back to you. Which element or elements of the miracle morning have had the biggest impact on you and why? So there's a few ways you can approach that. You could just talk about, like, the power of starting your day with intention, like big picture. Or you could tell me, like, which of the savers specifically have the biggest impact for you.

B (19:59)

Okay. So as a language coach, we always say you want to have the fundamentals down. So when I began like you, the six were non negotiable. I had to do all of them. And because this is when I love reading, so it gave me permission to read in the morning. And then journaling was phenomenal. I think that's the one that I've been consistent throughout. Like, I have stacks of journals just like freestyling, just expressing myself because I feel like that's how I get to know myself and my ideas flow. I struggle with visualization because I am not a visual person. Like you tell me, close my eyes and visualize an apple. I will not see an apple. I vis. So over the years, it's just blank. Yeah. So over time, I learned to use writing as my visualization because I visualize in words. So when I'm journaling, actually able to articulate the vision that I have. And that's what gets to me. So somehow I. Because I would just close my eyes and go like. So I almost gave up on that. But it has become my superpower now because as I'm journaling and I'm imagining what my ideal future would look like, then it's even more powerful. I mean, and then, of course, exercise. It goes without saying that's just. It's just one of those things you gotta do. And it's very powerful because movement is medicine, you know, affirmations. Over the years, I've loved the evolution of how. Especially from the miracle equation, you know, I've loved the evolution of affirmations because those resonated with me because I'm more action oriented. I want to know what I'm doing, I want to know how I am being. So my affirmations have come to embody that throughout the years. So I will say for right now, it's the reading, it's the affirmation, and it's the journaling that has been. Have been the most. I mean, exercise. It's just that to me, that's just a base for silence. I'm more of a prayer person because one of Jehovah's Witnesses. So the Bible and belief, Bible beliefs are very strong for me. So prayer is what usually takes no place for silence for me. So, yeah, like, I love this stuff.

A (22:21)

We still have a long way to go. But this is part of my favorite part, like hearing, which of the savers do you do? How do you do them? How do you like them? I'd actually love to dive into journaling a little bit, Karen, because you just mentioned you've got stacks and stacks and stacks and stacks of journals. And I have not been that consistent over the last 15 years to have stacks and stacks and stacks of journals. I have stacks of journal entries, but then I go off the rails. I don't do it for a while. But I have a friend, Chip Franks, who hardcore miracle morning practitioner, I've always envied. Wow. He's got his stacks and it's like every single year he has a journal for the last 10 years, every day. So you mentioned that you use it for free writing. Just talk for a minute about how do you journal? If somebody's like, I don't know what to write, how do you approach it? You open a blank journal. Do you do it physical written journal with a pen? Is it on a computer, on your phone? How do you journal and how do you approach it? So people can model that?

B (23:13)

Okay, so the first rule of journaling is make it easy. Okay. I have my journal right there before I go to bed because I find like in the morning I will just write about what I need to do, but in the evening, I want to reflect about the day. All the beautiful things I saw, you know, like just being present, that forces me during the day to actually be focused on what's going right in my life.

A (23:39)

Yeah.

B (23:39)

So I will sit down and make myself think about what beautiful things happened today. The Jedediah, my son has speech via speech delay. So when he says something like I that I know was really hard for him and everybody understood him, to me, that's something that I will celebrate and say, guess what?

A (24:00)

Amazing.

B (24:00)

And I do the silly thing. Dear Diary, because once I say that, my brain just. I think it's like a code phrase for me. Once I say, dear Diary. Yeah, really like a teenage girl. But somehow it opened me up. It's like I'm about to talk to a friend.

A (24:19)

Yeah.

B (24:19)

They're just saying, this is what happened today. This is what struggle today. I feel like I don't have clarity right now. What is going on. I feel like whenever Sansa said something, did I misunderstand them? So I just. I just talk my heart out.

A (24:33)

Yeah.

B (24:34)

And if I go, when I shower and I have ideas, I come in there and I write all of my ideas. Like I don't have any. I can't write this in here. I'm just. This is why I put my soul and heart in there. And then I stop at one page. I make myself stop at one page because I don't want it to get overwhelming.

A (24:55)

Yeah.

B (24:56)

After one page, I say, I think that's enough for the night.

A (24:58)

That's enough for the day. Quality over quantity, you know?

B (25:01)

So that's how. And it's become fun. And whenever I don't do it because I traveled or something like that, I feel like I've missed talking to a friend.

A (25:09)

I love that. I love that. There's so many things I can highlight there. The Dear Diary piece is really important. Right. Like you're writing to someone. I do something different, but similar in that when I have a profound insight, I will actually write it. Instead of saying I need to do blank, I'll actually write it to me from higher consciousness, from God. So it starts with instead of I need to how comma. You really need to. Yada, yada, yada. And so there is something about the way we use language and feeling like it's. So for you, it's. You're writing to the diary. In the example, I'm using someone's writing it to me versus me writing it to myself. And I imagine that it's God. It's my highest consciousness. Right. That's where it's coming from. And the impact that our language has in the way that we use it is significant. And I love that you pour your heart and soul. You don't filter. Right. You just. You write to your diary. I love that. Really, really cool. So, Holly, let's do the same thing for you. I'd love to hear how you approach the sa. Like your favorite savers, if there's any you struggle with. And how do you approach them? Yeah. Any tips you can give our listeners?

C (26:14)

Absolutely. So my favorite of the first three, and those are the non negotiables, the silence, the affirmations, the Visualization. And again, just to give context, because when we talk about it, it just sounds easy. I struggled so hard, so long for so many years with silence. My body was very sick. I was constantly in that sympathetic stress state, the fight or flight, and I was not okay with silence. I could not be in silence. And I was always constantly having to be doing something. And so silence was very difficult for me. And getting to that place where now silence is my favorite. I mean, I live in the silence. It is so powerful. And those three combined, it's really, it's the neuroscience. It's how your brain just calms down. Your brain is telling your body that everything is safe and really that calm, that quiet. I combine prayer, meditation, the affirmations, the silence, all of the things in the visualization into one just kind of big wherever I go first thing in the morning. And from that calm, it just really, it puts me into that parasympathetic peace state so that I can go about my day. And really it's that emotional resilience that no matter what happens, like I'm good and it's slowing down. It's being intentional before making decisions. It's being able to make good decisions because of it. And really, like I said, just like setting up that nervous system to be regulated and my moods used to be all over the place. And really that, the calm, the silence, the affirmations of visualization helps me to get to that mindset, to have a nervous system that's regulated and not needing that constant dopamine hit of all of the distractions that are around me. So that is absolutely vital.

A (28:18)

How long do you typically take for silence? Is that 5 minutes, 10 minutes?

C (28:21)

It depends on the day. Some days, if it's I need to get up and go, it might be two minutes. Most days it's a solid 30 to 40. I do get up early and I do have that time in the morning. So I am very to have that time. 4 o'.

A (28:37)

Clock, 4 o'. Clock. I love it. I love it. Fellow 4Amer, I actually am late. I'm like 4:30 now with my kids getting older and they're like wanting to hang out in the evenings. It's so hard for me because I'm just like, I love my kids, but when they go to college, I get to get back to my miracle morning routine of going to bed at 8:30, getting up at 3:30. That's my favorite.

B (28:56)

Yeah.

C (28:57)

So that has helped me between overcoming chronic illness, that's helped me with even my own emotional eating Struggles that I've been through. It helped me two years ago when I went through a divorce and my life was just topsy turvy. So those first three, especially if someone's new to this, they sound simple. They sound like, okay, really? Can it change your life? Yeah, big time. The one that I struggle with the most is reading and how. I'm not sure if your brain went there after chemo, but my brain is in the state of recovering and is continuing to recover. I'm very careful with my words, but reading has been a struggle. And so I basically took the reading and I moved it to lunchtime and I moved it to audible, and it is no longer a struggle. So I don't know if that officially counts or not. It does, but I was like, you know what? Rather than trying to fight this and rather than trying to fight a physical book. And by the way, your book was a lot easier to read. Like, that was. That was a great book.

A (30:04)

I write it like a third grade level. So it's more. It's more digestible.

C (30:08)

Yeah, yeah, it was absolutely digestible. But yeah, most of the books that I read are on audible. I'm like, I can either fight with my brain or I can say, okay, consistency is better than perfection. Does perfect mean that I have to physically read a physical book, or does reading count as something that I can listen to? Yeah, I just made my own rules.

A (30:28)

No, I love that. And you're giving people permission to. Right. There's flexibility in the savers in the miracle morning. You're even doing part of your miracle morning during lunchtime. Right. So it's like you're starting your day with the three silence, affirmations, visualization that are the most impactful for you, that, as you said, regulate your nervous system, set you up to be intentional and productive for the day. And then you're delaying reading for a few hours and doing it in a way where you can combine it with eating lunch and kind of be multitasking in an effective way.

C (30:55)

And can I just add real quick with the journaling to the. The ask the scribe.

A (30:59)

Yeah, please.

C (31:00)

Because I know, like, all three of us have different ways that we do this, which I think is just amazing and is hopefully going to give some people some really good ideas. When I journal at the beginning of the day, I journal because you're like, you know, like we were just talking, like, okay, what am I supposed to write? You've got this blank piece of paper. So it's at the beginning of the day, and I journal as if it's at the end of the day and the day has already happened and the day was the most amazing day ever. And it's almost like a dear God, thank you for this day.

A (31:28)

Yeah.

C (31:28)

And I journal in that tense of my best memory from the future. And that's my favorite way to journal.

A (31:42)

Goal achievers and members of the miracle Morning community. I just just wanted to remind you or invite you to check out the Miracle Morning Routine app in the App Store and the Google Play Store. It is free to download and comes with a robust assortment of features, including templates to create your affirmations, a built in journal, customizable timers for your savers, the Savers 101 guided track, where you complete your miracle morning in 13 minutes by simply hitting play a Miracle Evening guided track to help you go to bed at night and a lot more. And then you always have the option to upgrade to the premium version, our most popular version of the app, which you can try for a seven day free trial. And it gives you access to over 500 affirmations, a library of nearly 200 guided savers tracks so that you can click play and complete your savers in different areas of your life. You want to improve your mental health, you want to improve a relationship, you want to make more money. There are specific savers tracks, guided or designed, I should say, for each of those outcomes that you want to achieve in your life. So you can again literally click play and complete your miracle morning. Plus over 200 journaling prompts and a lot more. And the app now has over 2,900 reviews averaging 4.9 out of 5 stars. You can download the app now in the App Store or Google Play for Android users. Either way, I hope the app enhances your mornings and your life. Can you give us an example, like word it, like just freestyle or give us a recent journal entry or something?

B (33:18)

Yeah.

A (33:18)

So it's the morning, right? You're journaling in the morning, but as if it had already happened at the end of the day.

C (33:25)

Right? So full disclosure, I did not journal this morning, but let's say I did. It would have been, dear God, thank you for this wonderful day. Thank you for the opportunity to share about the Miracle Morning on this podcast. And I just kind of go through different things about my day. Thank you for the chance, like, you know, yesterday, thank you for the chance to My dad made it to 80. My mother passed away a few years ago, so it's very important to have him still around and just being in that place of sharing Your day as if it's already happened.

A (33:57)

Yeah, I love that. I love that we did the miracle year event recently. And that was one of the questions is, like, at the end of the year, when you've made this your best year ever, like, what will that feel like? What will that feel like? And when you can forward, think and get into that space now, it's compelling, that it makes you want to make it a reality. And it's rehearsing. You've rehearsed doing the things you're like. And you're setting the intention like, hey, thank you, God, that I showed up my best today, that I did this with excellence, that people responded really well. Like you are creating your day. Being proactive versus being reactive. I love that. Karen, going back to you and of course, Holly, get ready because the same question's coming to you. Let's talk about outcomes or results in terms of since you started the miracle morning. Now, Karen, you've been doing it for 12 years, so I'm sure there's lots of results. But is there anything maybe pick one. Pick like one specific thing that happened and it was prompted by the miracle morning. So for me, for example, and I'll talk here for a minute to give you time to think of what this would be. But for me, and I have so many. Right. There's so many things that. The miracle morning, I doubled my income in two months because of the miracle morning. I ran an ultramarathon. That's the one I often use because I explain how I used affirmations to affirm my commitment to doing something I never in my entire life thought I could do. Run this ultramarathon. I did the affirmation formula. I'm committed to running miles. And here's why, and here's what I'm going to do to follow through. And then I used visualization. I mentally rehearsed going for the run every day in a peak mental and emotional state. So if it wasn't for the miracle morning, I can almost guarantee I would not have done the marathon. There's no way, because the miracle morning got me to train for it. If it wasn't for that, I would have just procrastinated and not been ready. So that's an example of a result. So, yeah. What's a specific result that you experienced from your savers and your miracle morning?

B (35:48)

Okay, so I'm going to do three high level. So 2012, I was writing my dissertation. I was away from school because of the miracle morning. I had specific plan to keep Working on it because I had a goal of finishing it within three years. And that's exactly what happened. I knew exactly what I was working on and when I was working on. And I was scared because I was by myself, I'm thinking, this is not going to happen. I will never finish this thing. But because I was so on point because of Miracle Morning, that Was that nice 2015, because of the podcast and reading that I was. I was reading Andy. What is it, Rich? That poor guy.

A (36:29)

Oh, yeah.

B (36:31)

Robert Kiyosaki and his cohort. During the miracle morning, we were able to launch a real estate business because of that. So I was able to retire my husband from his hospital job so that he could come and join me in the real estate business.

A (36:46)

Oh, wow. That's amazing.

B (36:47)

It was huge. And finally, in 2020, during COVID because of the miracle morning, I was able to create a language learning platform, which eventually became a language learning app. The LSM Swahili for home is app where adults could learn Swahili on demand. And this was because we were working with refugees and noticed that we didn't have decent resources for volunteers to learn how to speak Swahili without having to pack and go or use some other things that were not very efficient. So during my miracle morning, I was able to launch that app in 30 days because I was focused. So I'm like, my life is what it is right now, literally, because of the miracle morning. And wow. Yeah, I can't even tell. And because of that, also my students, during the challenge, I suggest and highly recommend that we do Miracle Morning Challenge. So it doesn't matter who, as long as you come to my world. I share my experiences and say, I can't force you, but I promise you, if you do this, it's going to change your life because it did mine. Yeah.

A (37:53)

Wow, Karen, so inspiring. And what I love about the examples you shared. Three different results, different outcomes, different areas of life. And it just reminds me that the miracle Morning, how universally applicable it is, because I always say it's about you. It's about helping you become the person that you need to be in terms of the mindset and the habits and the discipline and the consistency and the focus. And then whatever you apply it to, whether it's making more money or starting an app or finishing your PhD, like, whatever it is, or retiring your husband from his job. Right. Like, your miracle morning is the thing that then you just pointed in the direction of whatever the goals that you have in your life are, and it amplifies and Enhances your ability to more effectively make those goals and dreams a reality. So you're a living example of that. I love those stories.

B (38:45)

That's such a blessing.

A (38:46)

Yeah. Yeah. And thanks for sharing it with others. The fact that you're paying it forward, that's the cool part of Miracle Morning. Like, the reason the book has reached millions of people isn't because, like, especially in other countries, I don't go to other countries and talk about it. It's word of mouth and people like yourself that, you know, you have these amazing results and then you're going, hey, you got to try the miracle morning. All right, Holly, what about you? What are some specific outcomes that you can point back to the miracle Morning in your savers?

C (39:09)

Absolutely. So I have two to share. And the first one was when I was going through my divorce in 2022. I was moving from Alexandria, Virginia, to basically the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania. So going from the suburbs of Washington, D.C. to the middle of nowhere. And so it was a big culture jump. It was a divorce, all the things that happen in a divorce. And also I was making that move at the time when I was married. I was coaching part time, and basically my husband at the time was supporting me. So I was also making a big move career wise. And I decided to not get a job to go all in on coaching full time and building my business and supporting myself. And during that time, it's, you know the phrase the leap in the net will appear. Mine was leap, and I'm praying that I can fly because I felt like I didn't have that foundation under me. And there was a lot of uncertainty every single day, waking up and just not knowing what life is going to look like. And the miracle morning was that consistent routine every single day. I knew that I was going to wake up and I was going to do the exact same thing. And that routine and that day, discipline and just knowing that if even the entire day went haywire, there was one thing that I can rely on that is consistent, that I knew was going to help me. And that really gave me the emotional resilience and the grit and help build that confidence and the competence loop of just figuring out how to get started all over again with my life. So that was huge. And because I am such a firm believer that I actually gift the book to all of my coaching clients and help them to incorporate it into their schedule. And especially the majority of the women I work with, they've got demanding schedules and careers and families and midlife juggling all of the Things that we juggle and trying to lose weight and get on top of emotional eating and stop all the snacking. And it's really those morning habits and those morning routines that go throughout the day that they take with them throughout the day. And everyone knows, I mean, there's more to weight loss than just a habit and a discipline. It's becoming a different person. And that's what the Miracle Morning really does, is help you to become that best version of yourself. And it really does ripple to all the aspects of your life.

A (42:05)

Yeah, I agree with you. And it is interesting that when people share the results, like whether it's in the Miracle Morning Community Facebook group, or I think about Mike Eaton, who was in the Miracle Morning documentary and he lost 80 pounds after reading the Miracle Morning, and he's like, I tried diets. I tried this and that. Nothing worked. The Miracle Morning worked. And when I heard that from his story, I'm like, well, it's not a book on how to lose weight. Right? But it goes back to that. It's universally applicable to making you a better version of yourself and capable of achieving whatever your goals are. But that is one of the most popular responses when you ask, when we do surveys for the New York money Community, what were the results? I lost 10 pounds. I lost 7 pounds. I lost 20. Like, that's one of the big outcomes that. So it makes sense that you're sharing that with your coaching clients.

C (42:49)

And you talk about the unwavering faith. Right? We talked about that a little bit earlier, and I like the phrase kind of the unwavering knowing list. Like, I just know that things are going to be okay. But that's also from that mindset of not focusing on the negative, not worrying about everything that's going to go wrong, but just living in that place of just knowing that everything is going to be okay, regardless of whether it's good, bad, or otherwise.

A (43:15)

Yeah, yeah. Such an important perspective. It is. It's surrender. It's faith. Right, Karen? And I'm going to ask both you guys, of course, both you gals, this question. And I think, Karen, you mentioned it earlier and that we would circle back to it. So I want to make sure I don't forget to, which is how has the Miracle Morning influenced the people around you? So whether that's family, friends, colleagues, how has it influenced people around you, either directly, like you shared it with them, or indirectly, like, based on who you were, impacted your relationships, that kind of thing.

B (43:44)

So the milk and morning came to my life just when I in My first few months of marriage. So initially it was because my husband is a night owl. He does not like anything to do with the morning. Yeah. However, over the years, as he's seen the impact that the Miracle Morning has had on my life and our lives collectively, he's actually waking up earlier than me. And he. He would never admit to doing the sacred. Never. However, he's doing them because I see him waking up, he's reading his thing, he's doing his. And I'm like, I am so proud of him because of that, you know, Because I know that because initially I would try, oh, read this. You got it. Then I realized that's not the way to do it. Let my example and the results be the biggest factor in him determining whether he wanted to do that. So I am extremely proud of that. And then every time we have a graduation high school graduate, instead of giving people money, actually buy them three books. One of them is the Miracle Morning and then the Compound Effect and one other one, I buy them these books, and for the Miracle Morning, I show them how to do it in the card. And it's amazing how much they come back and say, thank you for that book that's really changed my life. And then for my Swahili students, I do challenges, and then I will reward people with the Miracle Morning book. So pretty much everybody that my sisters in Kenya, I buy that book for people and then just invite them to do it with me. So, for instance, if I'm feeling really, like, up to it, I'll do. Let's do a challenge. It's going to be fun for the next 30 days, and let's see if we can challenge each other. And it's just been beautiful to see the impact that it's having on people because they're discovering they're capable of so much more, but that they already are, but they didn't have the framework to address them, and they didn't have the framework within which to just excel. And the Miracle Morning does that for them. So, like I said, it's really not that, like, the Miracle Morning is geared towards a certain type of person, but it gives you the space and the framework, as it were, for you to operate within your best self. So the last 12 years have been amazing for that factor. And those ones who don't want to do it, they still respect it, and they know what I'm doing.

A (46:09)

And the timing might not be right. Right. Some people, I've heard many people say, like, I heard about your book. I heard about your book. My friend said I should do it, and then finally it hit me at the right time or finally I was ready. So you're planting those seeds. Yeah. Well, you're an incredible advocate for the miracle morning carrot. I am so grateful for that. Holly, what about you? How's your miracle morning influenced people around you?

C (46:29)

Yeah, absolutely. And like I said that I actually gift the book to my clients. And when you think about women in midlife, one common theme that is, I would say 99.9% of us is that we give to everyone else, but we don't give to ourselves. We leave our cup completely empty because we just give so much to everyone else. And the miracle morning helps them to basically take those first few minutes of the morning and prioritize themselves. And sometimes it's for the first time in years. And I was actually talking to one of my clients, and I asked her, I said, do you want me to share anything? And she goes, oh, my goodness, absolutely. So she said that she used to absolutely hate mornings. She hated her job.

B (47:18)

She.

C (47:19)

She hit the snooze button, and she just refused to get out of bed. And she has now gone to a place where she's got the book, she's got the app, and she says she's excited to wake up every day. She goes, I'm actually a morning person. I feel like I have purpose. I have a new job. I love how my day begins. She says, and it really has set her up and other clients, too, basically to keep her focused on eating healthier and exercising and having that consistency that, especially when trying to get into those habits, is so up and down and all over the place. But how. What she specifically wanted me to tell you, okay. Because she loves the app, and she said Lucy is her favorite, and she loves the confetti.

A (48:05)

I get both of those pieces of feedback quite a bit that. Tell her, thank you. That's great. Yeah, yeah. Lucy is.

C (48:11)

I love seeing it implemented. Yeah, yeah.

A (48:13)

The miracle morning app. Lucy is the primary voice. We have a lot of people in there that lead savers practices, but. And in the confetti. No, that's so true. That I love. It's. I celebrate every time I do a saver. Right. So very, very cool. Tell her I said, thank you. I really appreciate that. All right, couple more questions, and then we'll do a quick fire round here. So, Karen, well, I guess two parts of this question. So was there ever a time that you wanted to quit or struggled to stay consistent with the miracle morning? And how did you get back on Track. So that's kind of the first part. So was there a specific time where you can go, yeah, like Holly, maybe like when I had cancer I fell off and here's how I got back on that kind of thing. So was there a specific time? And then in general, like you mentioned, Karen, that there's these ebbs and flows and I'm there like I'm on it for every day and then I go on vacation for a week and I come back and I like I'm out of my routine and it takes a while to get back in. So was there a specific time that you wanted to quit or struggle to stay consistent and how did you overcome it? And then in general, if you fall off track or you don't do it for a while, if that happens, how do you get back on track? And I'm sure there's kind of similarities in these answers.

B (49:17)

Yeah. So I'm very goal oriented and focused and everything. However, when I had my child, that has was the most humbling experience of my life because I thought I was going to have that baby, put them on the car seat and just continue with my miracle morning like nothing happened.

A (49:39)

Yeah, sure.

B (49:40)

And it was like a ton of brick hit me and I didn't know how to cope with not being on top of my game. That was. And you know, you have so many feelings of guilt. Like I should be feeling like this. I should be able to do everything that I was able to do before I had the baby. And I will tell you, it took me about two years to finally accept. Accept that my life had changed. I was still fighting even though I hadn't left, even though I didn't have energy to do anything else, I was still fighting to get back on it.

A (50:14)

Yeah.

B (50:15)

And I would read people saying have grace on yourself and I really didn't know what that meant to me. Having grace on myself meant I was failing. And it took a lot of maturing to, to realize that just because I wasn't doing my miracle morning every day at 5am with the same gas cell, I was not failing. So the first year or two I tried, but it was awful. And I wanted to just say, you know what, never mind. But before I gave up, I had matured into realizing I can actually adapt this to my new state of life. I can do 10 minutes, one exercise for a little bit. I don't have to do everything that I was doing before and that was huge. And not feel guilty because that was the part that was killing me the most. So once I Figured that out and accepted the new stage of life I was in. Eventually I was able to build back up to that, but I was, I recognized that I'm not the same person I was before then. And I love my miracle morning now because it honors who I am now. It goes, if my child doesn't sleep because he's sick, I'm okay, I'll push it later. I will go to the gym a little later. I will do my journal at night, you know, so it's just honoring where you are in life and recognizing that the miracle morning is supposed to suit your lifestyle. Initially when you're starting out, I think it's important to understand the fundamentals. But as you progress, just recognizing and honoring where you are in life and adopting it and releasing any guilt you might have as to not being perfect because there's no such thing as perfection. And now my team, we just adopted my niece who's a 14 year old. I'm also teaching her that just doing the miracle morning, but in a way that suits her high school stuff.

A (52:13)

Yeah.

B (52:14)

As opposed to if you don't do all six of them, you're a failure. So right now I'm more in tune with the ebbs and flow of life. And I haven't felt like quitting because there's really nothing to quit.

A (52:25)

Sure.

B (52:26)

Yeah.

A (52:27)

I love that you shared that because I'm sure so many people can relate to that. The perfection that if I can't do it all exactly like I wanted to do it. And then also you mentioned that when life changes. Right. You have an identity of going like, this is who I am and this is what I do. Well, now I got a baby and I can't be who I was doing what I did. It's things I've evolved. Now I'm a mom. Right. And allowing yourself that grace is important. There's a couple of cliche phrases that come up for me that are so true. One is give up perfection and focus on progress. Right. Perfection or progress over perfection. And the other I heard recently, I'm sure it's an age old phrase, but it's been sticking with me and I've been sharing it with my kids. It's don't let what you can't do get in the way of what you can do. Meaning just because you can't do an hour, can you do 10 minutes? Right. And then that's what we often because the perfectionists in most of us, we do let what we can't do get in the way. What we can Do. I can't do exactly what I want, so I will do nothing. No, no, no, it's not perfect. Do what you can do. And, you know, so then the last cliche phrase that is so true is, something is better than nothing. And that's what I came up with. The six minute miracle morning was because of that exact thing is I'm like, oh, I can't do an hour, so I won't do it. I've only got 10 minutes. I've only got 20 minutes. Like, what if I just did one minute for each of the savers and did something and so something better than nothing.

B (53:44)

And may I add something?

A (53:46)

Yeah.

B (53:46)

Because I saw the six minutes, but I did not want to give myself permission to do that because in my mind, that was not enough. How dare he say I can do miracle morning for six minutes? You know, I need to do the whole thing by just remembering it's really not about the six minute as much as the habit, because when you do a little bit, you're still reinforcing that identity and that habit of being a miracle manifestation. And once I got that in my head, I was like, okay, then we're still doing something, even if it's not as long or as perfect as we would like it to.

A (54:23)

Yeah, well said. Very well said. What about you, Holly? What about a time when you struggled to do the miracle morning? And how'd you get back on track?

C (54:29)

So a few things. Like I said, the first three, the silence, affirmation, and visualization. I honestly can't think I missed a day. I mean, even if it's just a minute or two, I always make sure I have that specific time in the quiet in the morning before I get out of bed and just really start from that. Note the other three, and I'm going to talk about exercise. And especially coming as a health coach is driving to the gym in the morning sometimes doesn't always happen.

A (54:56)

Yeah.

C (54:57)

So I got some workout equipment that I keep at my house. I've got a little bench. I've got some dumbbells and a kettlebell so I can do some workouts. And when I moved to Pennsylvania, we get a lot of snow. The winters are cold and gray and disgusting. And even though it's only two hours away from Alexandria, it's a lot different. And I found that first winter when I moved that I was not. My steps went from, I'd say, on average, eight to 9,000 steps a day down to about 3,000 steps a day. I was not moving at all. And that's not acceptable for anyone, let alone a health coach. It's embarrassing to admit that. And what I did was two things. Number one was I actually got a walking pad. I think they're like 150 bucks on Amazon. So in fact, it's what I'm standing on now. And so I got a walking pad and, and set it up with a standing desk so that I can first thing in the morning, come in, do a little bit of work and walk and get that exercise in if the day is gray and disgusting outside. The other thing that I do is walk and talk. Now, I don't use the Bluetooth. I use a wired. So I get the wired from my phone to my ears and I'll get on the phone with one of my friends and I just walk around the house. And it's not like I'm walking fast, it's not like I'm walking far. But the next thing I know, you know, there's a thousand steps, two thousand steps depending on how long the phone call is. So that's really how I overcame all of the excuses in my head of, oh, I can't do this, because like you just said, like, you can either live in the. Live in the problem or live in the solution. But I will say for the miracle evening, I do a lot of of those. And I can tell you with 100% accuracy, if I do not get a decent miracle evening in, I do not sleep well at all.

A (56:52)

Wow.

C (56:53)

So that is with 100% guarantee. It just. I don't know if it's the blue light. I don't know if it's not being able to calm my nervous system before I go to bed. I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm eating too soon. I don't know what all the different things are. But I am so glad that you included the miracle evening in the updated book because, I mean, that is a game changer in and of itself.

A (57:13)

I'm so happy to hear that because I don't talk about that enough and I don't hear feedback about it enough. So it's really good to hear that that's been so impactful for you.

C (57:21)

And one more thing that I would like to share too, is that on those times of your life that things are the darkest is when you need the miracle morning the most. It's those times when it's easy to say, oh, I'll get to it later, and oh, I don't want to do this today. But those are the times that you really need the Miracle morning the most. And those are the times that the miracle morning is going to propel you even further to get out of those dark times.

A (57:51)

Such great advice. And I think you're absolutely right. It's like not, oh, I'm going through this terrible thing, so I can't do a miracle morning. It's like, no, you need it now more than ever. I mean, I think the miracle morning contributed to saving my life when I was my cancer journey as well. All right, quick rapid fire questions to finish us off. Karen, I'll let you go first. What time do you wake up for your miracle morning? Typically?

B (58:14)

6:45.

A (58:16)

2:45.

B (58:17)

No, 6:45.

A (58:18)

Oh, I was gonna say. Oh, my goodness. Okay, you've got everybody beat. All right, that sounds more reasonable. 6:45. Okay, I already know. Holly, your answer. You're at 4:00am and then what's your favorite part of your morning routine, Karen?

B (58:30)

Exercise.

A (58:31)

Exercise. And Holly, what's yours?

C (58:33)

Oh, goodness. Absolutely the quiet. But can I just tell you, when I walk out of the gym, I feel unstoppable.

B (58:40)

I love it.

A (58:41)

I love it. All right, and then third question. If you had to choose only one savor, and I think you might have just done it, Karen, but which one would it be? Would it be exercise for you?

B (58:50)

No, it would be journaling.

A (58:51)

Journaling. Okay. Yeah, you've got those journals stacked and stacked.

B (58:55)

Oh, I gotta talk to my friends.

A (58:58)

Yes. Dear Diary. I love it. I love it. And I think that for anybody. Right. Dear Diary or Dear God or Write or Dear my future self. I love that tip that we're all Write in your journal to someone. Not just what do I write about? To a blank page. Write to someone. If you had to pick one. Savor. Holly, what is it?

C (59:16)

The silence.

A (59:17)

It's silence for you. Okay. All right. And last question. Heron. What's one book you've read during your miracle morning that you'd recommend to everybody?

B (59:24)

The Compound Effect.

A (59:26)

All right. By Darren Hardy, the Compound and actually, let me.

B (59:30)

There's two of them. There's James Clear, Atomic Habits and the Compound Effect. Those two books, that's along with the Miracle Morning. That's what I give to my high schoolers. They've been powerful for me.

A (59:41)

I love it. Yeah, powerful books. Compound Effect and Atomic Habits is the best selling book in recent generations. I mean, it's James Clear. It's incredible. Holly, what about you? Recommend one book. What would it be?

C (59:52)

The one book would be good energy by Dr. Casey Means, who's on the New York Times bestseller this Year. And yes, such a great book. Book. It just breaks it down. Just everyone needs to read it.

A (60:03)

Everyone should read that. Good energy. I absolutely agree. So there's your reading list, everybody. Compound effect, good energy and atomic habits. Yeah, that's a pretty good top three list, I think, right there. All right. Well, it has been so inspiring talking to you ladies. Thank you so much for being with me today.

B (60:20)

Thank you so much for having us. This is amazing. My hero, you know, like, getting to talk to you like it's a dream. One day when I first read that book, I was like, one day I'm going to talk to him or one day I'm going to translate that book, whatever it is. Today, one of my dreams has come true.

A (60:38)

So amazing. Little did you know that you'd be talking to me on a podcast that was going to go out to hundreds of thousands of people. That's pretty cool. Exciting. Cool. Well, Karen, I know you have an app like you do lots of different work and language. How can people find you if they wanted to follow up with you or connect or learn from you?

B (60:56)

So they can find me on my website, lancewahili now.com learn swahili now.

A (61:01)

Okay.

B (61:02)

Or if they want to just follow a podcast, it's Swahili made easy on wherever you listen to podcasts, Swahili made easy.

A (61:09)

And sorry, forgive me for asking, how do you spell Swahili? Just in case I'm not the only one that doesn't know that off the top of my head.

B (61:16)

S W H A H I L I. It's one of the largest African languages out there. Over 200 million speakers globally. Wow.

A (61:27)

Amazing. And Holly, where can people follow up with you? They want health coaching or anything else from Holly Bertone.

C (61:33)

Absolutely. So two places. The first would be your midlife comeback story podcast and Apple Spotify all the platforms. And the second one is my Instagram account, Holly Bertone, and it's B E R T O N E. Amazing.

A (61:48)

All right, well, I learned so much that will enhance my miracle morning today. So everybody listening. If you're inspired by today's stories, I encourage you to either start your own miracle morning journey, download the miracle morning app, grab a copy of the book, watch the miracle morning movie, or implement these strategies that you learned from Holly and Karen to enhance your savers practice each day, goal achievers and members of the miracle morning community. I love you, Karen and Holly, thank you so much. And I will talk to y' all next week. Take care. Thanks for listening to learn more about the Achieve your goals podcast and the get access today's show notes, transcript and exclusive content from hal Elrod. Visit Halelrod.com podcast thanks again for joining us. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of the Achieve your Goals podcast.