579: How to Go After What You Want (And Get It) with Jenny Wood

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Achieve Your Goals with Hal Elrod
Episode: 579: How to Go After What You Want (And Get It) with Jenny Wood
Date: March 26, 2025
Host: Hal Elrod
Guest: Jenny Wood, author of Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It

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Overview

This engaging episode explores the principles in Jenny Wood’s new book, Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It. Hal and Jenny discuss the unconventional traits Jenny believes are essential for success—traits that society often labels as negative, such as being weird, selfish, shameless, obsessed, nosy, manipulative, brutal, reckless, and bossy. Jenny shares her personal journey from a top Google executive to passionate author, the moments of wild courage that have shaped her life, and actionable strategies to overcome fear and achieve big goals.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Success: The Power of "Negative" Traits

• Jenny’s core message: To unlock your ambition, you must reclaim and reframe traits often seen as flaws.
  • Examples include being "selfish"—standing up for your needs, or "shameless"—boldly championing your accomplishments.
• Quote:

  “My guest today says you need to be weird, selfish, shameless, obsessed, nosy, manipulative, brutal, reckless and bossy. All nine of those traits, and to be that takes courage.” (Hal, 01:08)

2. Jenny’s Leap: Leaving Google for Wild Courage

• Background: Jenny spent nearly two decades at Google, rising from an entry-level role to senior executive and launching one of the company's biggest career programs.
• Catalyst for change: Struggling to balance her demanding job, family, and writing, Jenny had a wakeup moment after nearly falling asleep at the wheel.
• Motivated by a desire for "step function learning"—growth through discomfort—she left her stable job to pursue her passion, despite fear and uncertainty.
• Quote:

  “As terrifying as this move felt, I just did it... and I don’t know if it was the right choice, but I’m having fun.” (Jenny, 07:57)

3. Step Function vs. Incremental Learning

• Definition:
  • Incremental learning is slow, steady progress; step function learning involves major leaps in skill and experience when jumping into unfamiliar territory.
  • Butterflies in your stomach? That’s a sign you’re experiencing step function learning.
• Quote:

  “When you are attempting something new or going after a new goal, look for those butterflies which indicates step function learning.” (Jenny, 09:32)

4. From Anxiety to Action: Facing Down Fear

• Spotlight effect: Most people fixate on their own worries—others aren’t judging you as harshly as you judge yourself.
• Jenny identifies three paralyzing fears many people face:
  1. Fear of failure
  2. Fear of uncertainty
  3. Fear of judgment by others
• She describes how even after leaving Google, anxiety comes in waves. Her strategy? Act despite the fear—a recurring theme in her book.
• Quote:

  “It’s living in three fears… fear of uncertainty, fear of failure, and fear of judgment of others.” (Jenny, 13:25)

5. Wild Courage in Action: The Subway Story

• Jenny shares the now-famous tale of how she saw her future husband on a subway but was initially frozen by fear (all three types). She forced herself to act, overcame the inner tales of doubt, and ended up marrying him.
• Quote:

  “This wave of wild courage washes over me and practically pushes me out of my subway seat... I tap him on the shoulder, I say... ‘In the event that you're not married, you are on my subway and were cute. Any chance I could give you my business card?’” (Jenny, 16:02)

6. Unpacking the Nine Traits of Wild Courage

• Jenny reframes supposedly negative traits as tools for advancement:
  • Selfish: The courage to champion your own needs and ambitions. “If you give everyone a leg up at your expense, you’ll end up getting trampled.” (Jenny, 19:29)
  • Shameless: Owning your achievements and defeating imposter syndrome.
  • Brutal: Ruthless prioritization—saying no to low-impact requests to focus on big goals.
  • Obsessed: Deep commitment to your ambitions—being persistent and driven.
• Jenny stresses expanding the pie rather than competing for a bigger slice, benefiting yourself and the people around you.
• Quote:

  “These traits create the bars of an invisible cage that keep me small. They keep me quiet, they keep me following instead of leading.” (Jenny, 19:19)

7. Tactical Tools for Goal Achievement

• Agenda Avenger: Ask for an agenda before agreeing to meetings, saving time and energy.
• Power Postpone: Maintain your network graciously—if you can’t meet now, defer rather than decline.
• These approaches help you say “no” without guilt and reclaim your focus for boardwalk-level goals.
• Quote:

  “The agenda avenger is you respond back to them... ‘Could you please just send me an agenda first?’ Nine times out of ten, they're going to realize that either… they don't need the meeting…” (Jenny, 25:11)

8. Truths vs. Tales

• Concept: Distinguish between facts (“truths”) and the fearful narratives (“tales”) you spin in your head. Unchecked tales breed anxiety and drama.
• Example: After her boss rescheduled their 1-on-1 repeatedly during Google layoffs, Jenny convinced herself she’d be fired. Not true; her boss was just sick.
• Quote:

  “Truths are verifiable facts. Tales are the stories we create in our minds to make sense of those facts. But oftentimes, they harm us…” (Jenny, 27:24)

• Hal’s affirmation:

  “I don’t know what the future holds, so I might as well create empowering tales. One is ‘my best is yet to come.’” (Hal, 29:32)

9. Live Affirmation Coaching

• Jenny asks Hal for help crafting affirmations for her author journey.
• Hal’s 3 Steps to Affirmations:
  1. Affirm your commitment—Specify the outcome. (e.g., “I’m committed to helping 500,000 people have more wild courage at work and in life in the next five years.”)
  2. Why it matters—List compelling reasons.
  3. Actions and timetable—State what you’ll do and when.
• Quote:

  “In life, we don’t get what we want—we get what we’re committed to.” (Hal, 34:59)

10. The ROCK, CHALK, TALK, WALK Framework

• Jenny’s system for goal achievement:
  • ROCK: The specific, ambitious goal.
  • CHALK: Write it down.
  • TALK: Share it with others for accountability.
  • WALK: Take tangible steps.
• Parallels Hal’s SAVERS morning routine and is designed for memorability and implementation.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "Err on the side of action... Better to learn from your mistakes than spend all your time predicting the consequences of every decision."
  – Jenny (08:01)

• "If you give everyone a leg up at your expense, you'll end up getting trampled."
  – Jenny on "selfish" trait (19:29)

• "These traits create the bars of an invisible cage that keep me small."
  – Jenny (19:19)

• "You can be selflessly selfish—if you are thriving, you can help other people."
  – Hal (22:09)

• "Truths are verifiable facts. Tales are the stories we create in our minds… but often, they harm us."
  – Jenny (27:24)

• "I don’t know what the future holds, so I might as well create empowering tales. One is 'my best is yet to come.'"
  – Hal’s affirmation (29:32)

• "In life, we don’t get what we want—we get what we’re committed to."
  – Hal (34:59)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & setting up the topic: 00:02–03:10
• Jenny's Google experience & decision to leave: 05:07–08:29
• Step function learning explained: 08:29–09:45
• Managing anxiety & the three big fears: 10:18–13:50
• Jenny’s subway story (finding her husband): 15:35–18:17
• Unpacking the nine traits of wild courage: 19:14–24:31
• Practical tools for saying no (Agenda Avenger, Power Postpone): 24:45–26:01
• Concept of truths vs. tales: 26:17–29:01
• Affirmation-building session: 30:11–36:14
• Rock, Chalk, Talk, Walk framework: 36:14–37:59
• Closing thoughts & where to buy Wild Courage: 38:57–39:58

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Episode Highlights & Takeaways

• Counterintuitive attributes—embrace your ambition by being unabashedly true to yourself, even if that means being labeled “selfish” or “bossy.”
• Fear is natural—action in the face of fear (“wild courage”) is what sets achievers apart.
• Rewriting inner narratives—challenge the “tales” your mind creates and choose empowering alternatives.
• Goal achievement demands ruthless prioritization, practical tools for focus, and frameworks like “ROCK, CHALK, TALK, WALK.”
• Committing publicly (talk), writing it down (chalk), and focusing on ambitious goals (rock) increases your chances of success.

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Where to Find the Book

• Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It is available everywhere books are sold (hardcover, audiobook, ebook). Jenny notes purchasing the hardcover is especially helpful to authors and bestseller status.

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Final Thoughts

Jenny Wood’s energetic wisdom and Hal Elrod’s strategic mindset blend in a lively, actionable conversation—perfect for anyone stuck on the sidelines of their own life. If you want to live boldly, beat back fear, and achieve your biggest goals, the tools, stories, and frameworks from this episode are a must.

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Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome to the Achieve your goals podcast. The show that empowers you to wake up to your full potential and achieve your biggest goals and dreams. I am your host Hal Elrod and I invite you to join us each week as we share actionable strategies to take your life to the next level as well as interview world class experts and entrepreneurs who have achieved extraordinary goals themselves. And we ask them to give you a peek behind the curtain and teach you exactly what you need to do to do the same. Ready? Here we go. Hello friends, welcome to the achieve your goals podcast. I am your host Hal Elrod and today we are talking to Jenny Wood and I want to start by asking you a question. What if the traits you need to get ahead are the exact opposite of what you've been told to be successful? My guest today says you need to be weird, selfish, shameless, obsessed, nosy, manipulative, brutal, reckless and bossy. All nine of those traits and to be that takes courage. Her brand new book is Wild Go after what you want and get it. It is an energizing and empowering guide to embracing your ambition and chasing after what you want. And my guest Jenny Wood spent 18 years chasing what she wanted at Google, climbing from being an entry level employee to a top executive and creating one of the largest career development programs in Google's history and helping to generate tens of billions of dollars in revenue. In today's episode, Jenny reclaims nine traits from their negative shackles and teaches you how to apply them in a savvy and sane way to supercharge your success. Whether you're trying to impress your new boss, snag a stretch promotion, or land a life changing deal, and she knows her way around courage. You're going to hear some stories today about how she chased down a man on a subway because she found him attractive and later married that man. Anyway, there's a whole bunch of great stuff in store for today, but most importantly, you're going to learn how to overcome three big fears that hold us back and develop wild courage yourself. Before we dive into the episode, I want to take just a minute to invite you to check out the miracle morning App Premium plus subscription where you can get guided savers practices in the hundreds so you can literally press play every morning and be guided through a unique custom morning routine that is based on whatever area of your life you want to work on at this time. You can journal in the app. There are guided visualization prompts, journaling prompts, exercise routines, affirmations customized for you. This help you Achieve your goals. Head over to Miracle Morning app.com or just go to the App Store or the Google Play Store and download the app for your phone. Today, without further ado, it is my great pleasure to introduce you to my new friend, the one and only author of wild courage, Mrs. Jenny Wood. Jenny, it's so good to see you.

[B]

It's so great to be here, Hal. Thank you.

[A]

I told you, I've watched, I think, at least three podcast interviews with you on YouTube this past week, prepping for today. And it's funny, like, a friend introduced us. And about 30 seconds into feeling your energy on the phone, I'm like, come on the podcast. You're awesome. And now watching interviews with you, like, I love your energy. I love your sense of humor.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

I love your authenticity. So welcome.

[B]

Thank you so much. Isn't it interesting how we really do pick up on someone's vibe within the first 30 seconds? Maybe the first five seconds. Right. It's true. So full. Thank you. I'm honored.

[A]

You're welcome. Now, you saying that brought up for me what also is weird, though. I've met people that I thought. And this is not to say anything to our vibe. Right. You know, you mean people that are con artists have the vibe where you're like, whoa, I like this person. They're so charismatic. Any thoughts on that?

[B]

And then you're saying.

[A]

And then you find out later that it's inauthentic and they were manipulating you. Right. In a bad way. That's one of your.

[B]

That's interesting. I was like, oh, that is such a hot topic.

[A]

You're like, wait, we're gonna get to how to manipulate in a proactive, positive way. That's part of what you teach in your new book. But I'm talking about the kind where you're like, oh, they just were using me for something that wasn't in my best interest. Right.

[B]

Yeah, I think that does happen, too. So now I'm wondering, like, how do you spot that? How do you spot that?

[A]

That's what I was thinking, like, when you said that, I'm like, wait, I've been duped before by charismatic people.

[B]

Right. I would offer. Tell me how you feel about this. I would offer that, like, 98% of the time that vibe you get, you're probably spot on on your intuition. And maybe 2% of the time you get burned. But, yes, I think that's accurate.

[A]

Yep. And I've operated that way through my whole life, and I've gotten burned a couple times. But for the Most part, I've attracted and nurtured relationships with amazing people like yourself. I believe it.

[B]

I believe it.

[A]

Yeah. So more often than not, it's right on. So there's so many places that we can go. Like I said, I've watched multiple interviews, so I know lots about you. And I think that the place that it makes sense to start. Right. Is you were Google executive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hired by Google in 2006.

[B]

That's right. Gosh, you've done your homework, Hal. I'm so impressed. This is the obsessed trait of the nine traits of Wild Courage. I am very impressed.

[A]

And I'm not even looking at my notes, by the way. That's actual memory, which I don't have. A great one of us. So 2006. So almost 20 years ago, you grew one of the largest career development programs in Google's history. You're responsible for leading a team that contributed to tens of billions of dollars in ad revenue for Google. The perfect job. You've built a legacy, you've got an incredible reputation, you're earning great money. And then you decided to leave and to do your own thing, so to speak. And now you've your first book, Wild Courage. Go after what yout Want and Get it is coming out. Walk us through how you got here, Google. Why are you here? Why did you stop at Google? I'm. I'm just curious. It's like, why would you leave this amazing job that people would do anything to be in your position?

[B]

I know it feels really counterintuitive, and I still wonder, frankly, if I made the right decision. How, like, talk about, like, let's be real. I mean, a, it was scary to make the decision, and B, I don't know that it was the right one.

[A]

Only time will tell. Right?

[B]

Only time will tell. I left to basically be a starving artist. I left to be a writer. Right. I am the breadwinner for my family. It's a massive, massive risk. But I am essentially betting on myself, which, if I didn't do it, I would have been a fraud. Like, the book is called Wild Courage. Go after what you want and get it. So if you think about step function learning versus incremental learning, I mean, it's Google. Google's incredible. And so I definitely learned stuff every day. But as I was realizing, like, the external appetite for the work that I did, I was like, okay, if I left to be an entrepreneur and a speaker and an author and a corporate trainer, facilitator, et cetera, I would be experiencing step function learning, not just Incremental learning every day. And I feel like I'm drowning. Not in a bad way. I feel like I'm overwhelmed, rife with imposter syndrome, super anxious about all of this, living in tons of uncertainty. But I'm doing it and I'm here and it's really exciting too. And I will say, like, what Ultimately the catalyst for the change was. I was driving my son Ari back from choir one night. We live in Boulder, Colorado, at the base of the foothills, so we have some windy roads to get home. And I had so much going on, my executive Google role, being the founder and leader of this own your career program, which became this massive success at Google. All this external stuff happening with the book and speaking and also being a wife and a mom. I had so much on my plate, Hal, that I was frequently up from, let's say, 2 to 5am in the morning, and I was so sleep deprived that as I was driving Ari home from choir, I real, my eyes were fluttering closed and I was like, what am I doing? What am I doing? And I had this great mentor, Julie, who said, jenny, you can do it all, but not all at the same time. And I was trying to do it all at the same time. And I was like, something's got to give. So as terrifying as this move felt, I just did it. And I don't know if it was the right choice, but I'm having fun.

[A]

You're living what you wrote about, right?

[B]

That's the thing. If I stayed at Google because it was safe and it was comfortable and it was lucrative, and if I stayed there another 15 years, that's playing it safe. Trait number eight is reckless. Err on the side of action and take calculated risks. And better to learn from your mistakes than spend all your time predicting the consequences of every decision. So like, think fast and fearless. If you're on the fence, do it. And I was on the fence and I had to think fast and fearless. And I did it because I would have been a fraud if I didn't for a book called Wild Courage.

[A]

Yeah, you mentioned a concept, step function learning versus incremental learning. Right. I'm not familiar with that term. What is step function learning and what is the difference between that and incremental?

[B]

Yeah, so incremental. Think of it like a graph. We've got bar chart. Where There you've got, let's say month over month revenue. Right? So incremental revenue would be. Every month it grows half a percent. So like. Yeah, you just like, see these bars that are Gradually growing higher and higher. But you know, like the adoption of AI, right, that's step function growth, let's say 100 right now, and then it's 300x the next month and then 700x the next month and then 550,000x the following month, you know, so step function is like, it looks like stair steps on a graph. So when it comes to personal development and goal achievement, incremental learning is like, okay, like I have a new stakeholder at Google and like, okay, I have to figure out how to work with this new person. I'm learning a new style for them. But step function learning is when I'm in something that's so uncomfortable, some new project or goal or job, that I have butterflies in my stomach when I get an email because I don't know how to respond or what the right answer is or how I'm going to be perceived. Those butterflies represent step function learning. And so when you are attempting something new or going after a new goal, look for those butterflies which indicates step function learning.

[A]

That makes a lot of sense.

[B]

And that's where the growth, real growth and the real achievement comes from.

[A]

Totally. It's jumping off the cliff and building your wings on the way down. Right.

[B]

That is step function learning or step function flying.

[A]

I would say I think about like back when I was in sales when I was with Cutco and it was when I accomplished to break records, to do things that no one had ever done before. It was so far beyond what I thought was possible. And so I had to get completely outside of my comfort zone. I had to try things I would never try. I had to reach out to prospects I would never nor. Right. It's like the 10x concept. How do I 10x my, my sales, my growth, et cetera. So okay, that makes sense.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[A]

So you said. And this actually I got this is on your website, it's that you said if you were to go back 10 years, you were an ambitious person held back by anxiety. So how did you transform yourself from an ambitious or from an anxious and ambitious person to what I would call now courageous and wild. And I know you said before we started recording that anxiety is not gone, you just learned to manage it, to take action in the midst of it. So what does that look like for you?

[B]

So in the past it looked like a lot of second guessing, a lot of being awake at night because I was worried about some typo in an email to some important stakeholder or my boss's boss or a client or I said or, you know, too many times in a presentation to a key partner and those things would just eat at me. One thing that I learned was something called the spotlight effect. It's a social psychological principle that basically says people aren't lying awake at night thinking about their own mistake. So if that's the case, then like if I'm never lying awake at night thinking about how. How you performed on this podcast. Right. Which I guarantee I will not do tonight. Right?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You would assume that you're not lying awake at night thinking about how I did on the podcast, nor is anybody listening. Right. I mean, of course we want to a great conversation add a ton of value, but if that was the type of what I call lowercase A anxiety, that would just plague me. But then learning the spotlight effect, where people are way more concerned about themselves than about anybody else in the world, it gave me the relief, you know, that I can go out and be bold and make mistakes and take risks. And it's not like I have no anxiety now. I was just talking about this with my therapist three days ago and we were talking about sort of how it has evolved over time, my anxiety. And I still have it. Like I think anytime you try something new, which I referenced already it rears its ugly head. Right. So I felt very confident at Google. I felt like it emboldened me to do a lot, to ask for a lot to ask for money and budget and headcount and projects. And now here I am in this totally new environment as a first time author. One example, I sent out a bunch of advanced reader copies to people who might be able to bring me in for a keynote or do a bulk sale or something and had 300 people I wanted to follow up with. So I sent out the first 200 emails saying, hey, did you get the book? Have you had a chance to crack it open yet? Would you be interested in booking me for 2025 spe? Or consider a bulk buy? Thinking how 200 out of these 200 people that I sent emails to would reply back immediately with the check half written. Right. That's not exactly how it went. So after the ghosting and some rejection and some maybe laters and a couple of yeses, I just got so down on myself and so anxious that what I was doing wasn't important or wasn't meaningful. And it was really, really, really hard for me to send out the last hundred emails to get to the 300. And that's what I mean by like I still have that an thinking. Basically it's living in three fears. It's the three fears that wild courage helps you overcome. Fear of uncertainty, fear of failure, and fear of the judgment of others. In that case, for me, fear of uncertainty. What if I don't hear back from them? Fear of failure. What if they say no? Fear of judgment of others. What if they roll their eyes at me thinking like oh my gosh Jenny, like why are you pushing so hard? Like why is this book is no different than anybody else's right? And I'm like so underselling this content. This book is amazing and I'm so proud of it. And I do think it's different because I don't think anybody has written a where I encourage people to, in the right way, be weird, selfish, shameless, obsessed, nosy, manipulative, brutal, reckless and bossy.

[A]

Goal achievers and members of the Miracle Morning community I just wanted to remind you or invite you to check out the Miracle Morning Routine app in the App Store and the Google Play Store. It is free to download and comes with a robust assortment of features including templates to create your affirmations, a built in journal, customizable timers for your savers, the Sabers 101 guided track where you complete your miracle morning in 13 minutes by simply hitting play, a Miracle Evening guided track to help you go to bed at night, and a lot more. And then you always have the option to upgrade to the premium version, our most popular version of the app, which you can try for a seven day free trial. And it gives you access to over 500 affirmations, a library of nearly 200 guided savers tracks so that you can click play and complete your savers in different areas of your life. You want to improve your mental health, you want to improve a relationship. You want to make more money. There are specific savers tracks, guided or designed I should say, for each of those outcomes that you want to achieve in your life. So you can again literally click play and complete your miracle morning. Plus over 200 journaling prompts and a lot more and the app now has over 2,900 reviews averaging 4.9 out of 5 stars. You can download the app now in the App Store or Google Play for Android users. Either way, I hope the app enhances your mornings and your life. Yeah, and where I want to get to those traits because I've read them and it's profound how you and it's useful how you describe them, but you're a living embodiment of wild courage and what you just said. In fact say it Again, what are the three fears that this book helps you overcome?

[B]

Fear of failure, fear of uncertainty, and fear of judgment of others. And there was a moment in 2011 on the new York City subway where these all came together.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

Let's go. All right, so, I mean, this is how this whole thing started. How? It's 2011. I'm riding the subway home from work, and about 20ft away from me stands this really good looking guy. Gorgeous blue eyes, thick brown, wavy hair. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, I really want to talk to this guy. But something holds me back. What if he's a convicted felon? Fear of uncertainty. What if he's married? Fear of failure. What if a hundred people stare at me on this packed train while I make a fool of myself? Fear of judgment by others. Right. And so I do nothing as the train passes stop after stop after stop, and as life passes me by. But I'm so taken by him that I say, all right, I'm gonna make a deal with the universe. If he gets off at stop, which is 72nd street, then I'll try to strike up a conversation with him. And if not, then c' est la vie. Okay, so Hal, he gets off at the next stop, not my stop. And all of a sudden, this wave of wild courage washes over me and practically pushes me out of my subway seat and pushes me off the train. So I chase after him to catch up with him. I tap him on the shoulder, I say, excuse me. I'm sorry to bother you. You're wearing gloves, so I can't tell if you're wearing a wedding ring, but in the event that you're not married, you are on my subway and were cute. Any chance I could give you my business card? And then I wait for what feels like forever, as I think, jenny, this was a terrible idea. And then he finally takes the card. A week later, we go on a date. Three years later, we get married. And we've now been married happily for 11 years with two little hooligans ages 7 and 9.

[A]

And that article, by the way, went viral in the New York Times. How did the New York Times pick up the story, by the way?

[B]

I pitched it to them.

[A]

Oh, you did?

[B]

I did. Yeah. I was like, this is a love story everybody needs to hear. And I wanted to encourage other people to have this type of wild courage, whether it was for dating, for work, for life, for goals. And funnily enough, they called the article Serendipity 1, Spreadsheet 0 and they called it that because I was a dedicated online dater and I kept a spreadsheet of all my pending first dates. So in that moment it was like, no, I thought with my heart and not my head and like, forget the spreadsheet, forget the columns, forget the rows. And it was just to keep me organized because I'm very, very analytical and a left brain thinker. But it was just like that day, I just like, I just went with this wash of wild courage that overcame me. And so that's why they called it Serendipity 1, Spreadsheet 0. But I still maintain that serendipity isn't found, it's made.

[A]

You know, you're an embodiment of what the book is about, of wild courage. Right from leaving your position at Google. Right. Which took a lot of courage. Stepping into the unknown, the fear of the uncertainty, obviously pursuing your husband on the subway like a stalker or like a crazy person. Amazing.

[B]

Totally. Like a stalker. Totally.

[A]

And then writing this book, all the things that you're doing, even what the story you just shared, which is that you're sending out hundreds of emails, you're overcoming the fear of rejection, you're overcoming all of the fear of being judged by others, all of these things. And I think it's important you mentioned earlier, it doesn't mean that you don't have fear, but you have abilities, you have qualities, you have traits to overcome the fear. And in the book you teach nine traits that are counterintuitive. You would think some of these, like, selfish. I don't want to be selfish. Shameless. I don't want to be shameless. Manipulative. Right. Like, well, that these, these reckless, these sound bad. Bossy. So break these down. Let's unpack these nine traits because I think these are such a crux of how the power of your book and how it helps people overcome their fears.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you. So, I mean, yeah, these traits raise eyebrows. Let's keep it real. When I first ideated this with my editorial team, I was like, I don't know, guys. Like, I think this is licensed to get canceled on day one, so time will tell. But I have found it to be very refreshing for people, men and women, by the way, where people say to me, jenny, these create the bars of an invisible cage that keep me small. They keep me quiet, they keep me following instead of leading. They keep me being a passerby of my own life as opposed to someone who has agency and takes life by the horns and achieves my goals boldly. So let's just like look at a couple of them. So selfish is the courage to stand up for what you want. It's about being your own champion, right? Because if you give everyone a leg up at your expense, you'll end up getting trampled. So it's really just about having the courage to say, like, this is what I need, this is what I stand for. Maybe it's asking, you know, if you're in a team of five people and if you all did equal work on a project, someone's gotta present it to the client. And you know that the person who presents it to the client is the one who's gonna get a lot of the recognition or you'll have a lot of the work attributed to you. Why not raise your hand and be the one to ask to present it to the client? Right? It doesn't in any. This is very important, Hal. We are not looking to redivide the pie. We're looking to expand the pie. Like, if you're a leader, there are ways that you can be selfish, but also up level your team. You can ask your boss for a big project that highlights your whole team, right? And so you're selfishly asking for the big project, but you're giving the seven people under you an opportunity to shine. So we want to expand the pie here. So that's selfish. You know another one you mentioned, shameless. That's the courage to stand behind your efforts and abilities. This one's really just about kicking imposter syndrome to the curb. And the notion of not. I don't think people think of it as shame in their day to day, but more about like being awake at night thinking about that typo. Right. That I mentioned. Or beating yourself up about not getting back to somebody. Like those are little mini deposits of shame that you're putting into your system. And I want people to find their swagger because audacity or shamelessness is basically a survival skill. And sometimes you've got to articulate your wins to your boss or say something you're proud of or tell your partner that you did the dishes. Cause they might not have noticed it. And it's kind of managing up within your home. Right?

[A]

Do that all the time. I, I posted on social media a few months ago, I said, if a husband does the dishes and the wife doesn't see, does it really count? Or something like that, right?

[B]

That is hilarious. And like, I mean, I have been totally inundated with his book project for the last three years. And so when I started, I said To John, my incredible husband, that stranger from the subway. I said, john, am I going to do this? Like, is our family ready for this? I was like, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do dishes for the next three years. And he's like, jenny, you've got this. I've got the dishes. It was such a sweet moment. And that's exactly what I say in the acknowledgment section to him. On the last page of the book is that same quote that is so sweet.

[A]

I wanted to take one step back to the selfish piece. One thing that resonates with me is I've talked about for a long time, you can be selflessly selfish, meaning if you know that the best way to serve others is to be the best version of yourself, right? It's to, like, if you are thriving, you can help other people. If you are playing small, you can't help other people. Right? It's not just the self care. Put your oxygen mask on first. It's actually the ambition. Like, how do you really go after your goals and dreams in a really, really big way? And then now you have more abilities, more resources, more knowledge, more wisdom, more energy, more qualities that you can bring everybody. Me along with you.

[B]

So absolutely, yeah. So I was playing Monopoly with my son Ari a while back, and he was crushing me. And this is a concept I call Boardwalks versus Baltics, just to set the stage here. And he was crushing me because he was like strategically investing in the big stuff, right? He was being smart and selfish about how he used his money and his time and his energy, right? So he was like strategically investing in all the big stuff. And I was like, meanwhile buying all these little properties like Baltics. Well, on. On the boardwalks of Monopoly, you get like 200 bucks for a house or hotel or whatever it is. And on the Baltics you get like 60 bucks. So think about how are you spreading yourself thin across so many different quote, unquote, monopoly properties in life, right? So you could have a big project you want to accomplish. You talked about this in the Miracle morning movie, right? You wanted to have your big first live event with 200 people. And that is a boardwalk. That is a big thing that you want to accomplish. Well, in order to do that, you have to be selfish and say no to the Baltics. You have to say no to the 15 emails that came in on any given day. For someone who just wanted to hop on a call for five minutes, you had to say no to doing a favor to somebody, perhaps because you were saying yes to the big, the boardwalks, and no to the small. Because all those smalls add up. So in a work context, what's small? What's a Baltic? Being the 18th person to reply all on the happy birthday, Jimmy email. Right. Going to every single meeting that's on your calendar, even if you add no value and derive no value. Right. Just being selfish. Saying no to get. To get some real work done so that you can accomplish those boardwalks that ultimately serve more people long term. Like a live event that you did for the first time for 200 people. That takes selfishness and intentionality and ruthless prioritization, which I also talk about in the brutal trait.

[A]

Yeah. The word that came up for me that you just used in that example is no. That's the key that unlocks the door to proactive selfishness. Right. Which is like you have to say no to the things that don't move the needle.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Right. In order so that you can say yes to the things yeah.

[B]

That do 100%. Can I share a couple tools on that as well? Because I love getting practical and tactical. Okay, so two here. One is the agenda avenger and one is the power postpone. So let's say someone asks you for a meeting, Right? Because like, this happens all the time. Hey, do you have 30 minutes to talk about this? So the agenda avenger is you respond back to them. Happy to chat. Could you please just send me an agenda first? Of what you want to cover?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Nine times out of 10, they're going to realize that. That either. Here's what would happen there. They're going to realize they actually don't need the meeting. They might send you the three bullets of the agenda and you can reply back in line real fast. They get what they need and you save the 30 minutes, you might realize that they've given you an agenda that's better served by somebody else. And you might say, oh, actually, given your three topics, I think that Mary's the better person to collaborate with you on this. And so that's the agenda avenger. Okay. Makes saying no very thoughtful, very easy, very respectful. And then the other one is the power postpone. I can't meet right now, but I might be able to meet in. In April. Right. And so that allows them to take you up on it. If it's just like a coffee chat and like, hey, Hal, I want to pick your brain. I'd love to learn from you. You're still saying, yay, open to doing it, but I can't do it right now. And then up to them if they want to continue to put it on calendar or maybe move on to something else.

[A]

I love. I love both those strategies. And two things that I love about your book is you just said it. Practical and tactical. You teach such. Practical, tactical, actionable. I'll throw that in there. Strategies to implement. It's not just conceptual, right. Which a lot of us are.

[B]

Yeah, it's the. It's like the opposite of conceptual.

[A]

You're so good. You have such a gift, Jenny, with language and utilizing alliteration. And like, for example, you talk about there are truth and there are tales. Right. In fact, explain that concept because I love that one.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So in 2021, Google had just done their first time ever round of applied of layoffs. A big reduction in force or riff.

[A]

2021.

[B]

You said 2021. Yeah. January tw. No, I'm sorry, I'm getting that wrong. I think it was January 21st. I think that's the 21 I'm thinking of.

[A]

Okay. I'm like, yeah, I feel like it'll be earlier.

[B]

I think it was 2023. January 21, 2023. Anyway, the date's totally.

[A]

It doesn't matter. Arbitrary. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But at some point that happened. So, you know, all of a sudden, like, everyone was on alert and just like nervous. Right? Including me. Even though I'd been there a long time, was a super high performer, but still, again, go back to that imposter syndrome, that lowercase, you know. So I had my regular one on one with my boss every Tuesday that week. On Tuesday, she moved it to a Thursday. She never moved it on Thursday, she moved it to a Friday. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm getting laid off.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I started creating all these tales in my head. Okay? So truths are verifiable facts. Tales are the stories we create in our minds to make sense of those facts. But oftentimes they harm us because we believe the stories that we tell. So here's what happened in that situation. Here's what went through my mind. I haven't been pushing my team hard enough. I've been distracted by everything I'm doing externally. I haven't been performing at my best. I should download all of my personal pictures from my work computer to my personal laptop. Okay, But. And so those were, you know, tails. Tales. Tales. I get into the meeting and she says, oh, by the way, then someone texted me and she said, jenny, I heard there are layoffs going on in your org. Like, I hope you're okay. I check the HR person's calendar and I see that there's a meeting at the same time as my new one on one with my boss on Friday. And I'm like, it's confirmed, right? Tails. Tales. Tales. And then finally we get into the meeting and my manager says to me, oh, thank you so much for your patience. I've been vomiting all week. Okay, so like what were the truths in that situation? The meeting got moved to a Tuesday and then to a Friday. And what was another truth? There had been layoffs at Google. But think of all the stories I created that were so harmful to me that week and totally killed my productivity, killed my creativity, killed my innovation, killed my ability to lead because I was so focused. I was living in fear. Fear of uncertainty, fear of failure, and fear of judgment. And so there were some truths, right? But I created all these tales. And so the tool here is to rewrite your tale in at least a neutral way and you know, in a perfect world in a more empowering way so that you are not stuck in this fear cycle. Because fear blocks so much, Hal.

[A]

It blocks so much. And first and foremost, enjoying the one life we've been blessed to live. Yes, that's the first thing that it blocks. And that's the right like, it's like you're actually missing out on life as it was intended just for you to experience joy. And you're so right. And I actually, I have an affirmation that's around that and I use the word narrative. But I love that you Truth and tales because again, you're so good with alliteration. It makes it more memorable. But I've reminded myself and my affirmations that like, I don't know what the future holds, so I might as well create empowering tales. One is my best is yet to come. I love.

[B]

Oh my gosh, that just gave me chills.

[A]

It's actually from a friend, Eric. I didn't invent that, but Eric, my friend Eric Stranghorner. That's like his life motto and he's the one that instilled that for me. Because when that's the tale that you tell yourself every single day, My best is yet to come, then a, you're in a state of optimism and joy and empowerment. Right? And then you actually make different, wild, courageous decisions. That's really a self fulfilling prophecy. If you believe your best is yet to come, you live in alignment with that tale and you make it your truth, if you will.

[B]

So, so okay, Hal can I take a left turn here for a moment.

[A]

I love a left turn. Let's do it.

[B]

Okay. So are you open to taking like a two minute interlude on whatever questions you had prepped for me? I am so excited about the savers and I'm new to your work. Like, I am new to learning about the silence and exercise. I mean, a lot of it I do naturally, right? Like, I love to hike every day, but to like, thinking of it as a framework and the affirmations and the reading and describing. I was thinking about this a lot this week. Could we take a minute to help me think of some affirmations that could be useful for me? Because I've never in my life done affirmations. I've never said them out loud. Could we think of one right now together?

[A]

This is so fun. I love that you're doing this and anyone listening, this is totally sporadic. I mean, Jenny might have been thinking about it, obviously, but I did not know this was coming.

[B]

So I was not thinking about it. I was thinking about how excited I am to have affirmations, but I did not think about doing this live right now. But, like, you're the expert and I don't even know the right way. Like, how do I know what to say for an affirmation? I'd love quick coaching and like, maybe we can build an affirmation right now.

[A]

Simple three step framework, right? And I always usually start by the wrong way to do affirmations. Number one is they have to be in alignment with truth. Right? You can't lie to yourself, which we're often taught. Like, if you want something to be true, just affirm it as if it is already true. Like, I am wealthy. But like, if you're struggling financially, there's an incongruency and now it creates an internal conflict. You're like, I am wealthy. And then you're like, like, I can't pay my bills. What am I talking about?

[B]

Right, sure, Totally.

[A]

Number one, it's got to be rooted in truth. And the second problem is it can't be this flowery, passive language that promises a magical result. Like, I'm a money magnet. Money flows to me effortlessly and in abundance. So the three steps, step one, affirm what you're committed to. And now that can be an outcome or it can be an activity. So, meaning you could say, I'm committed to losing £10. That's the outcome. Or you could say, I'm committed to exercising 10 minutes a day, five days a week. That'd be the activity, right? So I usually focus on the outcome, but you can't always control the outcome, and you can't always control when the outcome happens. So with your book, this will be helpful. When I wrote the Miracle Mornings, you have a real life example that actually worked. Mine was, I am committed to change 1 million lives, which meant sell a million books.

[B]

Books.

[A]

I'm committed to change 1 million lives 1 morning at a time, no matter what. There's no other option, so that would be the first. What outcome are you committed to with your book?

[B]

Okay, so, like, I have this sticky note on my monitor right now, but it feels, to me, focused. It says rock. We can talk about my framework for goal setting, which is rock, chalk, talk, walk, but it says rock. Sell 15,000 US hardcover books of wild courage by end of March. March. It says March 25, but that's actually my pub date, so it'd actually be end of March. That's. To me, that doesn't feel as focused on the reader as I would want it to be as an affirmation. So can I try to tweak it?

[A]

So I would just say get the book in the hands of 15,000 people or change 15,000 lives. Because it was. I mean, it was me selling a million copies of the book, right? But for me, whenever I frame it in terms of what it's doing for the. It's that whole zig Ziglar quote. You can have everything you want want if you help enough other people get what they want. Right. I don't want to tell you this. So one thing that I found is you make a commitment to something, and sometimes your timeline is off. Right? There's that thing where, like, God's laughing at your timeline because he has his own timeline or whatever.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

[A]

So at the end of that year, I did everything in my power, and instead of selling a million books, I was 987,000 copies short of my goal. And so at the end of the year, I was like, okay, that's discouraging. I'm nowhere near my goal. But I looked at my affirmation and it said. And I think I added the words, no matter how long it takes.

[B]

Oh, I love that.

[A]

I said, I'm committed to changing 1 million lives one morning at a time, no matter how long it takes. And it took six years, right? It took six years to finally get there.

[B]

Okay. So I feel like I'm going to adjust mine real time. I actually don't even want it to be about a book sale number, because to me, that does Feel like I want to shift it so that it's more about the people, the readers. So maybe. But I do. I guess I do want it numerical. Okay. So we are really. We're. We're over our two minutes allocation here.

[A]

As long as you want.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'll bill you for the coaching session later.

[B]

I know, right? Totally. Okay. It's my shameless way to get free coaching.

[A]

No, Yeah. I like it. I know.

[B]

So maybe I'll just expand it. I want to help 500,000 people in five years have more wild courage at work and in life.

[A]

Yeah, great. I love that. It's just you said I want to, and in life, we don't get what we want. We get what we're committed to. So it's. I'm committed to helping 500,000 people embody wild courage in work and in life in the next five years.

[B]

Okay. I am committed to helping 500,000 people have more wild courage at work and in life in the next five years.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

And I'm going to go through the other two, and you can do them on your own as homework since we have limited time.

[B]

Sure, sure, sure.

[A]

Two more steps. Step number two is you got to aff. It's a must for you. So you've got to write down 1, 2, 3. Usually I say 5, max. Compelling reasons as to why are you doing this that's so meaningful and important to you that when you don't feel like it but you read the affirmation, you're like, oh, yeah, it's not even about me. I'm doing it for my husband. I'm doing it for my kids. I'm doing it for these 500,000 people. I'm doing it for humanity. Right. Like, you have five reasons that are so compelling. And then the third step is which actions will you take and win? And you affirm that every day. So now you're affirming step one, what you're committed to in terms of the outcome. Step two, you're affirming why it is a must for you. And then step three, you're affirming the actions that you're going to take and when you're going to take them. And that could be one hour a day from 8am to 9am focused on book promotion.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

And that's it. And now you're programming your mindset, you're directing your behavior, you're reinforcing commitment and beliefs in alignment with the outcome that you want.

[B]

It's so fantastic. And now I feel like I have to talk about rock, chalk, talk, and walk. Because. Because it's so perfectly aligned. It's so perfectly aligned.

[A]

Rock, chalk, talk, and walk.

[B]

So this is my goal setting framework, and it maps really well to this without even knowing it. So rock is like, what is the big thing you want to accomplish? Not I want to lose weight, but again, like, getting specific. That's the analytical part of my brain. But, you know, I want to lose 10 pounds by the end of 2025. So that is your rocket specific. It's time bound and it has some kind of number in it, and it's ambitious. Right? And then. Then chalk is. You write it down. Like, I just showed that I had my thing written on a piece of paper, so I see it every day. It's pasted to my monitor. So that's chalk, right? Chalk. Like, write it down, then talk. You say it out loud. So you share it with people rather than just saying in your head, like, mulling it around, like, oh, I should lose weight, I want to lose weight. What can I do to lose weight? Like, no, you verbalize it. You tell your partner, you find accountability partners, you tell friends, you tell co workers. Whatever the goal is might depend on how broad or narrow you share it out loud. But you people like to help. People get joy in helping others achieve their goals. Like, tremendous amounts of joy. I derive joy from helping people, coaching people to be better than they think they can be. At Google, when I would have office hours and people would come meet with me and they'd always apologize, be like, I'm so sorry to take up your time. I just have a quick question. I'd love your mentorship. I'm like, this is the best 30 minutes of my week. Like, what are you talking about? So recognize that people derive joy in helping you. So that's why you want to talk. You want to say it out loud. And then walk. You walk the walk. It's. It's like you just said, what's the one small thing you could do? So maybe if you're trying to lose weight, it's replacing your body. Big dishes in the kitchen with small dishes, right? And so what is the one little micro action you can take right now that is a deposit into your overall goals? That's rock, chalk, talk.

[A]

Wok.

[B]

It is like, we're clearly cut from the same cloth, Hal. And it's so fun to see how these things align together.

[A]

I love this. The. And it goes back to what I said about your way with words and alliteration, right? Like that Will become. I guess people implement that, right? It will be. You won't forget it, you know, that will become a part of how you think about going. Just like the savers. People go through their savers every morning. People will go through the this. They'll be analyzing their own internal dialogue with truth and tales. They're like, wait, is this truth or am I spinning a tail? That is cultivating fear within me.

[B]

That doesn't exactly.

[A]

Okay, stop. Right, okay, yeah, no, totally.

[B]

And to bring it back to the traits. Rock talk, chalk walk, that's what I call being obsessed. It's pushing, persisting, performing right in the best way possible. It's the courage to set your own standard. Because none of these traits will serve you well if you do. You don't learn to achieve your greatest ambitions. And this is the set of tools to achieve your goals, to achieve your greatest ambitions, to achieve your dreams, and to realize your full potential.

[A]

I love it. And to overcome three fears that hold all of us back. The fear of failure, the fear of uncertainty. The fear of judgment from others. I could talk to you all day, Jenny. The book everybody is called Wild courage. Go after what you want and get it. It is universally applicable for every human being on the planet. Planet. Because we all struggle with fears, we all struggle with self doubt. And we all need wild courage so we can get what we want in our lives personally and professionally. And this is the book that will help you do it. Where's the best place, Jenny, for people to go grab a copy of your book?

[B]

It's available everywhere. In hardcover, audiobook, ebook. If you're indifferent to format the hardcover. I will say this shamelessly as one of the traits the hardcover helps the author the most. That's the one that helps authors make these bestseller lists. So if you're indifferent to format that pick up the hard copy, I'd be so incredibly grateful. But it's available everywhere.

[A]

Yeah. And to me, a hardcover, it lasts. It's nicer, it's, you know, it's special. Five or so bucks extra, whatever it is, eight bucks extra. Like, for me, it's worth it, so.

[B]

Well, thank you, Hal.

[A]

Jenny, it's been a pleasure. I'm excited for you. I do feel like we're cut from the same cloth. I have no doubt in my mind, based on your courage, your wild courage, that you are going to impact 500,000 people and empower them, them to embody wild courage in their life. So thanks for the work that you're doing.

[B]

Thank you, Hal. You too.

[A]

All right. Goal Achievers. I love you so much. Go grab a copy of Jenny's book Wild Courage and I will talk to you next week. Thanks for listening. To learn more about the Achieve your Goals podcast and to get access today's show notes, transcript and exclusive content from hal Elrod, visit Halelrod.com podcast thanks again for joining us. Be sure to tune in next week for another another episode of the Achieve your goals podcast.