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Achieve Your Goals with Hal Elrod
617: How to Rewire Your Brain to Overcome Self-Sabotage with Thais Gibson, PhD
00:50:33
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- [00:02]
A
Hello and welcome to the achieve your goals podcast. The show that empowers you to wake up to your full potential and achieve your biggest goals and dreams. I am your host, Hal Elrod and I invite you to join us each week as we share actionable strategies to take your life to the next level. As well as interview world class experts and entrepreneurs who have achieved extraordinary goals themselves. And we ask them to give you a peek behind the curtain and teach you exactly what you need to do to do the same. Ready? Here we go. Foreign. Y'.
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B
All.
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A
You are going to love this episode and love my guest today. If you've ever struggled with recurring relationship challenges, emotional triggers, limiting beliefs, self sabotage, or feeling stuck in old patterns, this episode is going to help you understand why they happen, how they came most likely from your childhood, and how to finally transform them from the inside out. Out. Today's guest is Dr. Thais Gibson. She's the co founder of the Personal development school which is a global learning platform. Helping people heal at the subconscious level. That is her expertise. Understanding your subconscious so you can build secure, fulfilling relationships and you can heal the blocks that are keeping you stuck in those old patterns. She's a PhD certified in more than a dozen therapeutic modalities and and has helped tens of thousands of people break lifelong patterns in their behavior, relationships and self worth. And today she's going to help you do the same again. I promise you. You're going to love Thais, you're going to love this episode and it's going to help you transform from the inside out. Let's dive in. Thais. We finally hit record.
- [01:53]
B
We had such a great conversation before we started. I'm always grateful for stuff like that.
- [01:57]
A
Yeah, we were just talking for 20 minutes. We're like, we should probably record the podcast so. But we're best friends now, so that.
- [02:03]
B
Yeah, that's exciting.
- [02:05]
A
And I found out you have a vacation home right down the road. So we're gonna hang out when you come visit.
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B
A hundred percent. Yeah.
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A
Oh, where do we start? So today for lunch, during my lunch break, I always watch YouTube and I happen to watch your interview on Mel Robbins podcast today. In fact, let's start there. I'm actually, I wasn't planning on this, but being on Mel Robbins podcast is. She has the number one podcast in the world. I saw you have a million views on that podcast. So this is like a just a weird question that came up for me but like what was that experience like for you meeting Mel? Had you read her work before? Like what was that, like.
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B
Yeah. I mean, I was so excited. I definitely. I actually watched Mel's TED Talk back in, like, however long that was. I think it was 13 years ago or something crazy. And I remember she jumps into the audience, and I was like, wow, what a firecracker. Like, this is amazing. And so I always adm. And then I had listened to a lot of her stuff over the years, kind of on and off.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I mean, to be honest, I would say that I'm the type of person who I connect easily with people, and I really like people, and I feel like I never really feel uncomfortable around people. She was, like, a little bit intimidating in real life. She was just so strong.
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A
She's got a presence about her, for sure.
- [03:10]
B
Yeah. Which was a really. I mean, it was so beautiful. But, yeah, it was, like, a tiny bit intimidated, if I'm fully honest. But then we had a blast. I had a great time recording with her. I was actually the first podcast recording in her new studio at the time. So she just bought a new studio, and so she was excited about that, and I was excited to be there. And, yeah, it was. It was amazing.
- [03:28]
A
It was a first for both of you. I love that.
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B
That's cool. Exactly.
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A
So I was looking over some of your material, and I came across one of your quotes, and I wanted to start. Here's where I wanted to start. This is where I was planning on starting. I just want you to unpack this or speak to this. And you said, you're not broken. You're just ready to heal. What do you mean by that?
- [03:46]
B
Yeah, well, what I mean by that is that oftentimes we get into a position when things are not going our way, when we are having a hard time with something, we're feeling stuck. And what happens, unfortunately, is we're usually stuck because of our own subconscious patterns, patterns and conditioning that we acquired that we usually didn't volunteer and ask for in childhood or past experiences. But our subconscious mind is responsible for roughly 95 to 97% of all of our beliefs, thoughts, emotions, choices on a regular basis. And our conscious mind is 3 to 5%. But what happens is, when we don't know how the subconscious and conscious mind work, what ends up taking place is people go, oh, I'm broken. They judge their patterns from a conscious perspective, and they think, oh, I'm broke and I'm stuck. And they give meaning to things not recognizing that. Actually, by the time you're making that judgment, by the time you're, like, feeling broken or not feeling good, that's actually emotional feedback that there's something to be healed, to be loved, to be brought back into wholeness, happening in a subconscious level. And when we're feeling frustrated, it's a symptom of that. And so when we can start looking at things as. Instead of judging ourselves, instead of getting curious and inquiring, like, what is happening here that is causing me frustration, what are the roots? And how can I work to recondition these things? That's when we get tremendous healing and big breakthroughs.
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A
I love that. For me, I started learning about the subconscious, I think probably 2007. So almost 18 years ago, when I started reading, I think it was Think and Grow Rich was one of the first books I read. And then I started exploring affirmations and the idea that the way I say it now is what you affirm repeatedly becomes your reality or your inner reality. Right? And I would use the example of, if you wake up from a nightmare in the middle of the night, you weren't actually being chased by a person with a knife, but every fiber of your being reacts as if it were. So you literally are sweating and you're breathing heavy. And you're right, because your subconscious mind does not know the difference between vividly imagined reality and actual reality. And so affirmations were how I started to reprogram my subconscious mind through repetition and using emotion with the affirmation. So that's my favorite tool for reprogramming my subconscious. I wanted to know, what are your favorite tools, since this is your world, your area of expertise?
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B
Oh, man, I have a few. How many do you want? I feel like there's a bunch. Okay, let's start with the affirmations 1.
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A
Okay.
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B
There's a way better hacked system for affirmations. So affirmations. You actually did a really good job of explaining the things in there that you were doing that I actually think most people don't do. So what's really interesting is your conscious mind speaks language. Your subconscious mind doesn't really speak language at all. It speaks in emotions and imagery. So when you say, like, if I say to you, okay, Hal, whatever you do, do not think of a pink elephant.
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A
It's too late. Dang it.
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B
So your conscious mind understands. Do not. But your subconscious just flashes an image. So a lot of times when we're using affirmations, people get tripped up there because they just use language. And sometimes affirmations can really fall short there because somebody's like, oh, I'm good enough. I'm good enough. I'm good enough. And they're just speaking language. And then for all intents and purposes, we're actually intellectualizing at that point. So what we do is. It's called auto suggestion, or it's a form of auto suggestion. Belief reprogramming is we take a belief and its opposite. So if it's I'm not good enough, I am good enough, then I get people to find 10 to 15 pieces of evidence or memory for when they felt good enough. Because memories are a container of emotions and imagery. So if you think of your favorite childhood memory and you're playing on the slide with your friends at the playground, you might see the image of the red slide in your brain. And then. And we've all seen people, when they recall old memories, they smile or they laugh. And so what's happening is memory. If you come up with memories, it's actually bringing up or bringing forth emotions and images. And then we want 10 to 15. So we get that repetition because repetition is what's firing and wiring our neural networks. So neural pathways are kind of like muscles. If you work out your bicep muscle, it gets bigger. If you fire and wire consistently neural networks, they, over time strengthen and they deepen. And so what we're trying to do is if we get 10 to 15 pieces of memory for how we actually felt good enough. I was a really good friend when ABC happened. I showed up while at work when this happened. I had that hard conversation with my boss the other day, and I felt good enough. Then we come up with these pieces of memory. We then want to record them and listen back to them for 21 days in what we call a suggestible state. So a suggestible state is when our brain is producing more alpha and theta brain waves, and our subconscious mind is like a sponge in that space. So first hour that we wake up, last hour that we go to sleep, after intense exercise or yoga or meditation, we're producing more alpha and sometimes even theta brain waves. And so listening back in that suggestible state, it takes like two to three minutes a day. Doing it for 21 days, we actually rewire fundamental core beliefs that can really be blocking us. So that's a really good one. Maybe I'll do, like, two other ones at a high level.
- [08:34]
A
Please do. And so. So just to repeat that back, right? So it's essentially taking the affirmation, supporting it with why. And I love that we're aligned with this, because I talk about affirmations. I always kind of make fun of the traditional. Like, you can't just tell yourself something that you don't believe is true. Even if you tell yourself a hundred times, your subconscious is creating an inner conflict where you're like, you're going, I am wealthy. And it's like, dude, you're broke. Shut up, shut up. I'm doing my affirmations. I am wealthy. Right. So it's like, it has to be rooted in truth. And then you got to support it with, why? Why are these things true? What's the evidence? So I love the way you're teaching that. And then just to make sure I heard that nuance, you teach to record it into an audio, into your phone. Right. And then actually play it back to yourself.
- [09:15]
B
Exactly. And that way when you're doing it and you want to come up with a more. So if, let's say somebody's working on like, I am unlovable, and it's like, I am lovable.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You're not saying you don't want to fall into the trap of like, my mom loves me, my child loves me, my other child loves me. You want to be like, I felt loved by my child when I came home and they ran up and I could see the joy in their eyes. And you want, like, more specific, because the more specific, the more emotion you wring out of it and the more imagery you wring out of it. So all of a sudden we're getting like that depth of specific specificity there. So 10 specific pieces. We record ourselves saying it out loud and then we listen back. And when we listen back, our focus is to feel about it, to see about, to visualize it again, because then we're engaging the subconscious mind significantly more.
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A
Got it. Okay, give me two more.
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B
Okay, we'll do another one. So another one that's huge is core wounds or limiting beliefs. They become self fulfilling prophecies. So what happens is because they're a part of our own subconscious programming or conditioning, we actually play them out against ourselves on autopilot all the time and have no idea. So, for example, let's say somebody has this big fear of abandonment. Okay, well, people who fear abandonment the most are the people who self abandon the most too.
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A
What does self abandon mean? I just want to make sure.
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B
Yeah. So self abandonment would be like, I don't speak up for myself. I say yes when it's a no for me. I put my feelings on the back burner. I put my needs last. I don't advocate for myself. I don't set boundaries. So all the wounds that we carry, all the fears that we carry. We tend to literally reenact against ourselves all the time. If it's like, I am not good enough. We put ourselves down. We don't speak up. We don't take opportunities. We shirk away from things that could challenge us. So we actually, because once a belief is a part of our system, we actually play it out on ourselves. It's what feels familiar and thus safe. And so we keep reenacting it without consciously recognizing. So to switch gears out of, like, belief reprogramming, where we go for the beliefs, this is in behavioral reprogramming, which is really effective too. So what I get people to do is list the belief that they're trying to break down, but then we change it through our behavior. So we start. Step one is like, what is the belief? It's I'm not good enough. I'll be abandoned. I'll list up a bunch, maybe so people can recognize some of the core beliefs that they'll get stuck on. I am disrespected. People who do that always disrespect themselves. I am unworthy. I'll be trapped, helpless, powerless, unloved is a really big one. Abandoned. We talked about excluded, disliked, rejected. Like, these are some. Unsafe is a really big one. These tend to be like fundamental core beliefs. So what I get people do step one. What is the belief that's really blocking you? They find the belief. Step two, how do you actually treat yourself exactly the way somebody thinking this about you would treat you? And what you'll see is like, we audit it. We look in the different areas of life and career around relationships. We go through career, financial, mental, emotional, spiritual, physical relationships. Where do you treat yourself this way? And what you'll see is people are like. They kind of have these aha moments like, oh, my gosh, no wonder I'm so sensitive to being. Feeling not good enough. I constantly tell myself I'm not good enough. I constantly treat myself like I'm not good enough. So we audit it. And then what we do is we pick three things that we're going to do differently each day to show ourselves that we are good enough, that we are worthy, that we are lovable, that we're worthy of connection instead of abandonment, that we do have freedom instead of being trapped. So we counteract the belief. And then we have three things we do each day across the course of 21 days. We get the actual behaviors. We get the emotions of when we do something. Like we actually took ourselves into consideration or put ourselves first or see, set a boundary or spoke up for a need. We feel the emotion of that. We see that we're visually and physically doing it. And as we start pairing these things together across 21 days, we build in the neural networks that change how we behave, which in turn can actually counteract that belief that we're carrying.
- [12:50]
A
Got it. Okay. All right, let me ask you a question. How many apps are you using for your personal development? Maybe a meditation app like Calmer Headspace, an affirmation app like I Am, or Think Up, a book summary app like Blinkist, a journaling app like 5 Minute Journal, a visualization app like Envision, an exercise app like 7 Minute Workout, and maybe even a habit tracking app to keep it all together. That is a lot to manage and a lot to pay for. What if you could replace all of them with just one app? Yes. It is called the Miracle Morning app, and it is essentially seven apps in one. Hundreds of guided meditations and Breathwork tracks a full library of affirmations, plus tools to create your own visualization prompts for 10 key areas of your life. Guided workouts from 2 to 10 minutes long, book and audiobook summaries of top personal and professional development books, and a journaling tool with guided prompts. The wheel of life or a blank page to write freely. It simplifies your morning, saves you money, and helps you start every day with clarity, purpose, and energy. And it's one of the only apps in this space with a 4.9 out of 5 star rating. Try it free for 7 days. Just search Miracle Morning in your app store or go to miraclemorningapp.com to get started. All right, back to the show. So you mentioned the first technique was around Affirmations is reprogramming those beliefs.
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B
Yep.
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A
And then now it's really. It's actually creating behaviors that reinforce the new paradigm. Why is this hard for people? Is it because they're just not aware? They don't know about it? I know you talk a lot about self sabotaging, like what's actually happening in our subconscious when we're self sabotaging. Is that what holds people back from being able to make these shifts?
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B
Yes. So there's a few things. So there's two reasons we self sabotage at a deep level. It goes deep a little bit here.
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A
So, okay.
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The way I like to give people an image for this is that if you've ever been in a maze, let's say you're trying to get from one end of the maze to the other. Okay. So you're as A human being. You're trying to get from where you are now to the outcome that you want. Instead, maybe you want to build that business, you want to be wealthy, you want to whatever it might be. So what happens is the maze is full of all of these walls that are blocking you, right? All of these walls are representative of your subconscious limiting beliefs. Okay, so this belief that like, no, I'm not worthy, I'm not deserving, okay, so you're not going to start a business if you believe that I'm going to fail. Well, you're not going to start a business if you believe that you're going to fail. Your subconscious belief system are going to say, no, no, no, we have to protect you. We're going to put the wall up. The other thing that drives us, and you were kind of touching this indirectly, is like the our why. Now our why is very connected to the things that we care about the most, the needs that we have that drive us the most as people. So if you're a big family person, family is going to supercharge you showing up. If you're a big achievement person or health and wellness person, when things are linked, when your conscious goal is linked to your subconscious needs for health, you're going to be like, I'm going to do them, I'm going to stick them out. So whenever we have something that we want to supercharge our goals with, you can think of it as being when we link our goal to the things that we're driven by naturally, and there's ways to find out what our individual ones are. It's almost like now you're not just running through the maze, you're running through the maze way faster. So the more we link our conscious goals to our subconscious needs and desires that we're driven for that we're wired for, the faster we're moving through the experience of the maze. But then what we want to do is we want to rewire the limiting beliefs and get them out of the way. Now the walls are out of there, and now you're just getting straight from point A to point B without all of these block blocks that are slowing you down or stopping you. So the last thing I'll just say to sort of summarize that is that there's no actual such thing as self sabotage. Nobody wakes up and and consciously says, today I'm going to sabotage myself. Like, nobody's choosing self sabotage. What we experience as self sabotage is our conscious mind having a goal that is out of alignment with our subconscious Needs or blocked by our limiting beliefs. And as an analogy for that too, I remember working with a woman once years ago, and she said, thais, I'm pre diabetic and I'm coming to you because I've tried all the dietitian stuff and I think it's psychological. I can't seem to want to go to the gym, want to eat healthier. I'm stuck mentally, emotionally. And we found when we looked at her needs, her biggest needs were comfort. So she loved comfort food safety. So she liked to stay in her routine, family and social time. So she liked to go out and eat with family and do all these things. So her conscious mind says, eat healthy, go to the gym. Her subconscious mind says, no, that's going to take a time away from family, social connection, comfort and safety. I don't feel safe and comfortable going to a gym. I've never really been to a gym before. I don't know how to use the weights and the machines. So now her conscious mind says one thing. Her subconscious is like, no, we have different priorities and different interests here that we're wired for, so then we're going to sabotage. But then also she had all these limiting beliefs that were like, I'm not good enough, I'm not capable. So what we had to do was rewire her limiting beliefs and then link her conscious mind's goals to her subconscious mind needs. And so what we did is we got her to go to the gym with friends, go to nature walks with family and community, go to the park more often to play with our kids, take cooking classes with her husband, work out from the comfort of her own home. So when you link these things together and remove the limiting beliefs, we supercharge it.
- [18:03]
A
Wow. So the first step is that awareness is like understanding. And when you say when you're talking about you're doing this, is this through the personal development school? Is this the work where you're doing that or where are you talking about that you're working with some of these people?
- [18:16]
B
Yeah. So now the personal development school. So I worked in client based practice for years and years first and then had a big long wait list and then was like, I guess I'll put information on YouTube so that people will listen over there who I can't. Who are on a wait list. And then our YouTube channel grew and then we just put these all into package programs in the personal development school.
- [18:32]
A
Got it, Got it. Okay, Very cool. So awareness, right? Understanding what's going on in your subconscious and where it came from. Right. Like, if you can, you have to. I would imagine you got to look back at your childhood kind of to understand where did that belief come from? Where did that, like, speak to that? When do these subconscious beliefs, the limiting beliefs, when do they form and how do they form?
- [18:55]
B
Great question. So we are being conditioned all the time. So the vast majority of our beliefs, we are the most suggestible between the ages of 0 to 3 and then 3 to 8 because of the way that our brain is forming, formed and the type of brain waves are producing. So we take in on our deepest beliefs from actually the ages of 0 to 3 and then 3 to 8, where our brain is producing mostly alpha and theta brain waves. So we're super. When you go in to see a hypnotherapist and they're like trying to give you these scripts and tell you, oh, imagine you're walking down the stairs, and the stairs are all these colors and they're giving you all of this information. They're actually doing that to try to prime your brain to produce alpha brain waves, get you into this relaxed state because you're very suggestible. And so as children, we're like sponges because we're literally soaking up everything because we're in this hyper suggestible state of mind. So we acquire the vast majority of our strongest beliefs at that point. But we're always being conditioned. Anything we're exposed to through repetition and emotion, like I'm sure you've seen, like you of your wife and your kids, you probably saw that you were one person before your wife. And after being with your wife for a long time, you take on a lot of her traits.
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A
Totally. For better and worse.
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B
Yeah, totally. And so people are conditioning us, like by close proximity, whatever. We get a lot of exposure to through repetition, and emotion starts to rewire us. So we have a lot of these different themes that show up. And so we can get beliefs like, you could be in a situation where you feel safe your whole life, but then God forbid, somebody breaks into your home and somebody's held at gunpoint. And then you literally could leave that experience from such a strong emotional imprint and be like, I am unsafe.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And what's really interesting is when we're programming or reprogramming the subconscious mind, anything that's repetition, emotions and images will create programs. However, emotion always trumps repetition.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So like that break in experience if somebody can not feel unsafe at all, but one experience, if it's emotionally intense enough, can imprint the subconscious mind immediately. So we can also leverage that when it comes to rewiring, like, how much emotion we can pack on the other side can give us a lot of freedom.
- [20:52]
A
So what does that look like? How do you amplify the emotion to heal? Right. Like, if someone's listening to this and they're like, I know that I have limiting beliefs and insecurities and fears, and maybe they know why, but I think, like, a lot of times we don't. Like, I know that I am this way, but I don't know if it was. Maybe it was when I was 8 years old and my sister died. Maybe it was when this happened and I got beat up in high school. Right. I'm projecting right now, but I know that there's some issues, like. And I'm tired of feeling this way. I'm tired of playing small. I'm tired of being unhappy. I'm. Whatever it is. So what you just said is, like, when you amplify the emotion on the positive side, right. On the. On the negative side, you can become traumatized like that. You could have a lifetime of safety, completely wiped away by one traumatic experience that just disrupts your nervous system. So, yeah. How do you amplify the emotion on the positive side to heal faster?
- [21:47]
B
Yeah. Such a good question. So the first thing is, I always try to get people to figure out specifically what they're trying to heal or fix. Because if you're not specific enough, we can kind of just like, throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. I don't even think that's the right expression. But whatever the expression is, we've already gone. So the first thing is, like, what are you trying to heal or fix? And like, there's different ways to look at it. So if you are trying to heal something, usually it's like, okay, I'm upset about this situation, whatever situation X is, and you want to say, okay, well, why is the situation bothering me? What am I making it mean about me? Or what am I afraid is going to happen? So if somebody's like, I want to heal that, I always feel criticized by others. I'm really sensitive to criticism. Okay, good. Well, what are you making criticism mean about you or what are you afraid happens when you get criticized? Oh, I make it mean I'm not good enough. Oh, I make it mean I'm unlovable. Oh, I make it mean I'm always going to be abandoned by everybody. So it's. The first question is to pull up, like, what that core belief is and you should feel when you're like, what do I make this mean? That you're like, ouch, that one. That really, I really don't like when I feel like that. So that's step one, then step two, and this is actually another reprogramming tool is we want to look at like what are all of the costs of holding onto that belief? And we want to start by looking at like five or ten costs. What does it cost me to keep this belief alive, to hold onto it, to keep projecting it onto things? Okay, good. What are the benefits of letting it go? And it helps us get like a little more primed and open to get into a space. And you can actually do that for 21 days and just look at like, hey, I want to get rid of this belief. But it helps us be really open to like, I'm ready to let this go, I'm ready to work through this. Then when I get people to do is plug in that reprogramming tool that we talked about, which is the 10 piece of evidence, 21 days, you listen back in a suggestible state. Because then we actually start dropping a belief. So that helps us really change those things. And then we can add that third one which is like, well, let me also audit where I'm treating myself this way and work to change those behaviors. Now we've done like a full cycle of rewiring and now we actually have like profound breakthroughs from that self sabotage space. Because there's no self sabotage in the way that we think. It's just that our subconscious has these blocks which by the way, in a sense your subconscious thinks are for good reason. Like if you're trying to start a business and you're blocking yourself because you believe you'll fail, part of you is thinking, well that's good because I'm protecting myself from failure, right? So by changing that, first we now release that block. Then what we do next is we're like, well, how do we connect what our best potential outcome is to our drivers? And so that can become to your needs. But also we are deeply fundamentally wired to want to engage in things that we perceive are going to support our reptilian brain. So we like to engage in things that support safety, protection, freedom, family. These like fundamental things, security. If we perceive that this goal, this healing or starting the business, whatever it is that we're trying to get to, whatever that thing is that we're trying to create, if we perceive that it's going to get us more safety, protection, freedom, abundance. Things that we're like fundamentally wired for at A reptilian brain space, and we can link that. That's when we also start supercharging. We feel inspired and motivated and we want to take action. So that's how we would really get to the other side there if we're feeling stuck.
- [24:59]
A
Got it. I'm wondering this. Something that I've been doing recently is talking to myself out loud, which I didn't used to do. And I take it even further, singing to myself out loud. So, like, when I pray, I'll either pray out loud or I'll pray, sing. I don't know if that's a thing, but, like, I'll just freestyle and I'll just sing to myself what I feel like I need to hear. It's very much being in flow. Like if I was trying to help another human being and try to make them feel whatever I'm trying to get myself in that state of confidence or. Or empathy or whatever it is. Right. Or just feeling loved. And I'll start talking out loud to myself. And this is my theory. I'm very unscientific. I'm very anecdotal and experimental in everything I do in my life. I don't have a PhD like you. I just try things, I learn things, I apply things, I teach things. And I'm like, oh, this is working, or it's not. Right? So. And I always joke that anecdotally, anyways.
- [25:51]
B
That'S what science is.
- [25:52]
A
That's what it is. Yeah, you're right. They just document it. I don't. Yeah. So anyway, so here's my theory is I'm going, okay, well, if you think thoughts, like, if you think positive thoughts or you think affirmations, Right. You're activating your subconscious. At one level, if you say those affirmations out loud or that prayer or whatever the positive thoughts are, well, you're literally creating a physical interaction where sound waves are now leaving your mouth. They are now entering into your eardrums. They are affecting you biologically, not just your psychology. So, anyway, so that's been. Lately I've been finding so much like empowerment, self empowerment in, like, talking to myself out loud, the way that I would talk to someone else if I wanted to bring out the best in that other person. And of course, I'm trying to bring out the best in myself each day. So any thoughts on that? Just that practice of the power of speaking out loud to yourself versus just thinking internally.
- [26:51]
B
I love that. I think you're so on the money with the fact that, like, there's this Biological aspect to it, for sure. Not just psychological. Some other things that are really interesting about that is like when you look at the neuroscience of, like, the vagus nerve and your. Your autonomic nervous system, singing and humming are so good to actually activate you to be in parasympathetic nervous system mode. And when we're in parasympathetic nervous system mode, that's where you hear, like, all these old, like, monks chanting. Right. All these things. A lot of these are because they're actually so supportive for physiology. So when you activate your vagus nerve and you move into parasympathetic nervous system, what's interesting is that when you're in parasympathetic, you're more likely to produce alpha brain waves where you're then more suggestible. So if you're in that state where you're doing that in turn, you're probably helping to regulate your nervous system and making yourself more suggestible to what you're saying, which will in turn drive that down a little bit more deeply.
- [27:43]
A
I love this. I knew you'd have a scientific explanation for why this works. Yeah. And you think about it. You mentioned, like, the more emotion involved in a. An event, the more it impacts you, both positive or negative. Right. And so you think about if you were to think a negative thought about yourself. Right. Or if you were to find out someone else thought a negative thought about you, that would impact you at one level if that other person were to come up to you and yell at you what they think about you in some negative way. Right. Like, that would impact your nervous system far more. And so just using these, like, anecdotal examples, you're like, oh, yeah, it would make sense then that talking out loud would be impactful. And you mentioned chanting, like, a lot of times when I meditate, I will, you know. Right. And I'll just. I don't know if they call that chanting or a. Or whatever.
- [28:29]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [28:30]
A
But the impact of sitting in silence versus actually doing a few alms or oms is significantly different. You feel significantly different. And I love the explanation you just gave about, like, singing to yourself and how that impacts your parasynthetic nervous system. And that makes sense. That's why I've been doing that lately. And it just feels good. I just sing to my. And I like. I don't have a good voice, and I just sing like soft sogs. Funny. I always will, like, sit there and I'll be like, if my daughter or son walks in, they're gonna be like, dad, we know you're a weirdo, but, like, you're taking it to a new level of weirdness. We need you to bring it down. We're embarrassed.
- [29:09]
B
Well, I love that too, because, like, what you're talking about is there's a mind body connection. And so much of reprogramming, it's really hard for people to reprogram and to do like any like. So when you're distressed, when you're in a state of distress, typically like high level distress. So when you're feeling like really anxious, really frustrated, really angry, upset, those types of emotions, if you're really sitting at like a six or seven or eight or nine out of 10 of intense emotion, a couple things happen. So number one, a lot of brain activity drains out of your neocortex. So we move more into our reptilian brain. We don't get into a space where we're like. When you're in your reptilian brain, your animalistic version of yourself, you're not like, oh, let me do my reprogramming. Like, we're not.
- [29:47]
A
It's not on the. Not your high. It's not the highest version of yourself.
- [29:51]
B
Exactly. And then we actually have this area of our brain called Broca's area of our brain which is responsible for language and like linguistic processing that kind of shuts off. And so it's also really powerful and important when we're doing rewiring work, to be in parasympathetic nervous system mode. And so some really good things that help us get into parasympathetic. And what you're doing is when you're singing, you're chanting, you're actually like activating the mind body connection through the vagus nerve. Right. And through that whole experience. So that's why it's so cool. And I love that idea so much. But it's also really important for people to learn how to somatically process their emotions. Like, there's some really cool research that shows that when we're feeling distressed, if you're having a hard time getting into your affirmations, getting into your reprogramming work, you want to regulate your nervous system first. And a really good way to do that is. It's so interesting. Have you ever read like Eckhart Tolle and. Yeah, I figured I was like, you probably read all those books, so it's so interesting. He talks about something called the pain body, but there's actually like some really cool, like, I've always loved where like spirituality and neuroscience intersect. Like, that's my thing.
- [30:49]
A
Yeah.
- [30:49]
B
And this is a really good example of that. So there's this study done where they took participants and they put them into FMRI scanners and they had them recall really triggering events. And they saw the brain activity drain out of, like, the prefrontal cortex and neocortex regions and into the reptilian brain. And then what they had participants do is they had them just witness their emotions and label the sensations they were feeling in their body. So if they felt anger, they had them say, I feel anger. And anger feels like heat in my torso, cold, running down my arms, or I feel anxious, it feels like knots in my stomach, clenching of my jaw. So they had them label the emotion and the accompanying sensations. And what they found is all this brain activity came back up and online in the prefrontal cortex regions. They felt more regulated. They had somatically processed their emotions. And from there, when people are able to do that now, because their prefrontal cortex is working again now, we can actually engage in rewiring activities much more effectively. So it's a cool thing to do. These ways to, like, engage the mind body connection. So you're getting the best of both worlds.
- [31:47]
A
I love that. Yeah. I'm such a believer in the mind body connection. In my past, I've gone through this traumatic car accident and cancer, and for me, it was always like, I believe in the mind, that we can heal ourselves. And the. The science around how much stress impacts our body in a negative way would tell you that. Oh, well, then I would imagine the opposite of stress. Peace, calm. Right. Serenity would impact our body in the opposite way, in a positive, healing way. And of course, when many of us are in bad situations, like when I had cancer, the quote unquote, normal response is to live in fear, right. To be in high stress. Right. And it was like, oh, I'm going to be the happiest, most grateful, most at peace I've ever been while I endure the most difficult time in my life because it will increase the odds of me healing and making it through this. Right. Living in fear, I don't think is going to serve my body in this regard.
- [32:44]
B
So I just. I love that so much. Like, what an amazing and such powerful story. Because you're right. Like I always say to people, it's so funny, I feel badly now. I'm like, oh, no. But I say to people, when they're like, but I have all these wounds, I have all this trauma, I should feel bad. And it's like, yeah, you should feel bad, but if you're sick, if you're unwell, are you going to be like, oh good, let me keep eating junk food or are you going to be like, no, I need to eat healthier than ever. I have to live healthier than others. So whenever somebody sees that they have no the most distressed, mentally, emotionally too, it's like you have to take that much better care of yourself. And of course that then affects the mind body connection. And it's so interesting because if you look at it like when you are thinking stressful thoughts, you have more cortisol, more norepinephrine, then you move into sympathetic nervous system, which then actually decreases your immune response, which then in chronic terms affects your gut brain axis, which actually then causes digestive issues burnout. Like, we can't live in this like chronic cortisol mode. And so it's almost like sometimes I still see people out there that talk about the mind body connection as if they're like very separate things. And it's like they are literally affecting each other all day, every day, like consistently. Like they're completely interconnected. So anyways, it's powerful to hear that, like you were in a place where you were going, well, no, no, I got to take better care of my mental, emotional well being than ever. And then as a result of that, you produce more serotonin and dopamine and oxytocin and all the good neurochemicals that we do need.
- [33:59]
A
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. You mentioned Eckhart Tolle and one of the things that I learned from him, that I had applied it before I learned it and I kind of implied it almost intuitively, or I'll call it, you know, give God the credit. But I had a car accident when I was 20 and I was hit head on by a drunk driver. Told I would never walk again. Broke 11 bones. And so when I came out of that, I went, okay, I basically have two choices. Choice A, I can either resist reality. I could wish this didn't happen. I could call it unfair. I could be upset and angry and sad and scared and depressed. And I'm like, I don't think that's going to serve anything that I want in my life. I don't think I'm going to heal. You know, I'm like, or instead of resisting reality, I can accept reality exactly as it is. I can be totally at peace with this is my reality. And the way I thought about it is, okay, worst case scenario, I'm in a wheelchair the rest of my Life. I will be the happiest, most grateful, most at peace person ever in a wheelchair. But I'm going to put energy into healing. And that's just. I'm accepting that worst case scenario, but not until every other possibility is exhausted. And then, you know, I took my first step three weeks later. Like, the rest is history. But that, to me was the real. I'm like, I don't have a scientific chart. I just know that, like, I focused on healing my body. I was totally at peace. I chose not to live in fear because it wouldn't serve me. And then I healed. And what I invite people to consider if they're. They're like, oh, you know, that's not realistic, that's not reasonable. Like you said, people are like, of course I'm scared. Of course I'm afraid. Of course I'm upset. Look at what's happening to me. And I always use just the theoretical example of, okay, two different people. Person A, person B, they both have the exact same tragedy, adversity challenge. They're diagnosed with cancer, they both get divorced, they both lose a parent or a child or a loved one. Person A, you say, how are you doing? And they go, I'm a mess. What do you mean, how am I doing? Look at what's happening. This is not fair. I didn't deserve this. Life wasn't supposed to. They were literally living in a state of constant resistance to their reality. And then person B, who went through the exact same experience, you go, oh, my gosh, are you also distraught? And just life is over. And they go, well, no. What would be the point of that? I can't change what happened. So the only logical choice I have is to accept it and be at peace with it. I'm not happy about it, but I'm at peace with it. And now I can focus on what is in my control. Healing, moving forward, grieving, whatever it is. Right? So two different people, exact same tragedy. Either you choose to resist reality and wish it didn't happen, which doesn't change anything, or you accept it. And anyway, so sorry. This is my whole, like, my passion right here.
- [36:43]
B
No, I love it so much. I remember. So this is really cool. So there's a way to break it down really specifically too, as to, like, what somebody's individual blocks are there. So I remember.
- [36:53]
A
Yes.
- [36:53]
B
So I used to work with people and a lot of stuff on, like, subconscious rewiring for, like, relationship challenges and issues and things like that. And I remember this one day I was like, maybe a year and A half into working with clients and, like, starting my practice. And I had these two women come in and I get their intake forms ahead of time and all the information about, like, what's going on. And I had a lunch break in between. So woman number one, she came in, her husband was leaving her, and she was just finding out the news. She came in to, like, work with me. I think she had known for, like, a couple of weeks. And she came in and she was, like, devastated. Just devastated. She came in and she sat down and no judgment at all. But she, like, had stains all over her shirt. You could tell she was just, like, living in the same clothes for like a few days or weeks. She was all disheveled. She couldn't really get through sentence without crying. She was just, like, devastated. And we went through it, and I was asking her, like, what was going on and what was happening. And she told me all these stories. She said, well, if my husband ever really loved me, that he wouldn't have left me. And I'm gonna be alone forever, and I'm being abandoned and I'm gonna lose all my friends and family. And so she had all of this really painful meaning she was assigning to the situation. And so we started working through some of it, ultimately worked through a lot of it over the next few weeks. But then I had a second client, and she came in and I knew her intake form, and I'm like, oh, she has, like, the really similar situation to the first woman. They both had kids around the same age. They were about the same age themselves. Husband was leaving this whole thing. Second woman came in, and I expected her. Like, I thought, like, oh, this poor woman, she's gonna be so distressed. Like, the first one, she came in and she was like, pretty okay with it. And I asked her, I said, well, what are you making this whole situation mean about you? You know, what's coming up for you? And she said, it's gonna be hard and it's gonna be difficult. But I also understand that, like, it wasn't working. And I want my kids to see a relationship where we can co parent in healthy ways, but if it wasn't working, that we're also free to go, we're free to move in a different direction that's healthier. So she had all these, like, really healthy, adaptive forms of meaning she was giving to the situation. And so what's really interesting is when people are in that place too, right? Like, why is one person devastated and distraught? Another person's like, in a place like, you like yourself, where you're like, no, I'm going to use this to better myself and grow and heal. And probably it strengthened your character in a really big way to go through that.
- [39:01]
A
Sure, sure.
- [39:02]
B
But it's the meaning that we give to things and what we choose to make it mean actually comes from our preexisting subconscious conditions. A lot of the time, you know, a lot of times we have this, like, if you've always believed that you're not good enough or abandoned, that's the meaning we go to. And that's why it's so powerful to be like, well, what am I making this situation mean? And then pull up what that limiting belief is and then reprogram it through that activity because then we start to actually change and transform these things. And the other thing that's so interesting too is you were talking about how I always say this to people is the moment you had something happen, it is the past. So the moment your tire is flat, it's the past. It may be the immediate past, but it's the past. And you will always, 100% of the time, lose the war against the past. Like, if you try to fight it, you try to change it, you try to go to like you're ready to fight and do everything you can. No, the only thing you can fight is what you choose to do in the future. And so I love that you said, when you said that, like, I work in acceptance first because acceptance is non resistance to the past. It's like, this is my reality. I'm here and now I'm present. In my experience, I can see that there's possibilities going forward for the future. But I'm not warring against the past, blaming, this shouldn't have happened. It should be different because you give your energy to nothing. So I love that you said that.
- [40:11]
A
Yeah, well. And again, it's Eckhart Tolle that framed it because I couldn't have articulated it. And then when I read the Power of Now, probably five years later or something, he was like, resistance is the source of all of your emotional pain. And acceptance is how you allow freedom. And I'm like, oh, that's what I did with my car accident. I was like, oh. And then I was able to understand it at a much deeper level with, with Eckhart.
- [40:34]
B
Wow.
- [40:34]
A
So let's wrap up with this and I want to be back on to talk about attachment styles. Do a whole episode on that because that is also your jam. You have so much wisdom and knowledge. But let's do this for Anybody listening? It's like, all right, it was kind of like drinking from a fire hose. Like, I learned so much. But they want to change something. They know that they're stuck. They know that they're not feeling the way that they want to feel. Maybe they don't understand why. Maybe life is feeling almost even, like, hopeless. Like, why can't I figure out how to move through this or move forward? Why do I keep repeating the same patterns and behaviors and self sabotage, if you will? Right. What would be, like, the first thing or the first few things for someone to do as they end this episode?
- [41:21]
B
Yeah. Okay, so first thing. And we'll just summarize.
- [41:24]
A
Yeah.
- [41:24]
B
What is your goal? What is the outcome that you want to have instead? Okay, so maybe you want to start a business, but you just aren't doing it. It's been five years. You've never really taken meaningful action. Okay. My outcome is I want to start a business. Okay, so first thing, define what you want your outcome to be.
- [41:35]
A
And I want to be happy.
- [41:36]
B
Could that be 100%? 100%? Yeah. I want to feel joy. I want to be happy. Second thing is, why haven't I achieved this yet? And in asking that question, your limiting beliefs will come up. You'll be like, I don't have enough time. The world's too hard.
- [41:51]
A
Your answers are your limiting beliefs. That's how you. Yeah. Without therapist across the room or thais, you're like, oh, there they are. Okay.
- [41:59]
B
Exactly. And so it's a really good way to find your actual limiting beliefs. It's gonna. You're gonna spill them all right in that moment.
- [42:04]
A
Why haven't I done this? Okay, got it.
- [42:06]
B
Yeah, exactly. And then what we do is we plug the belief into the auto suggestion tool. So we go into like, well, what's the opposite? Right. So I. I will fail. I can succeed. Okay, good. 10 reasons why you've succeeded in the past and it's possible for you to succeed in the future. Listen back to those 10 reasons. For 21 days, you'll actually start rewiring that belief. Do that for 21 days, you'll start to feel a lot of, like, shifts and momentum. And then what I would say is, like, what are meaningful actions that you're going to take in alignment with somebody who succeeds? Right. So we're adding the action, reprogramming in there. Somebody who succeeds, take small challenges every day, tries new things, learns, gets mentorship. Like, whatever it is, it's going to be actions aligned with that new goal. You're going to do two to three of those things a day for 21 days. And now you've actually rewired yourself at a five fundamental core to be like, I've sourced my limiting beliefs, I've rewired them. I've taken actions to support the new version of me that I'm trying to create. That's a really good place to start to just streamline how quickly you can start to achieve and stop that process of procrastinating and self sabotaging.
- [43:04]
A
I love that. And the action just for anybody listening, right? Like, that requires courage. So if you heard that and you're like, but. Right. Well, a, there's the limiting belief surfacing, right? But it's like, yeah, you got to get out of your comfort zone. You got to do the thing. One of the simplest quotes I heard from a mentor years ago, it's so simple, but it's such a reality check. And I'm just saying it because it's speaking to what you're saying, which is if you want your life to be different, you have to be willing to do something different first. Right? So because, you know, it's like the behaviors you're talking about, you know, two to three. And now you said two to three behaviors a day. Why two to three? And I'm just being playing devil's advocate, why not one? Right. If I'm in a place where I'm like, I'm wanting to change and I'm feeling overwhelmed, I'm just thinking two to three might feel like a lot to start with. So what are your thoughts on that?
- [43:52]
B
Great question. So if you're feeling overwhelmed. So there's actually a tool for this too. It's another form of reprogramming. It's called exposure reprogramming. And I use it a lot for people with like, boundaries, who suck at setting boundaries, who have given up setting boundaries for years. And like, I always joke with people like, you don't want to go to your boss, who you like, are certain is a full blown narcissist and like, set your first boundary with him. Right. Like, or her. Right. Like you want it to be somebody. Like, basically what exposure is, is it's incremental repetition.
- [44:17]
A
Okay.
- [44:17]
B
So what we get through incrementalism is that we don't have to force ourselves so far out of our subconscious comfort zone that we feel afraid. And then we have a negative emotional experience because we're very much wired by emotional imprinting. So we want to pick really small things. But if we do two to Three, we get repetition. And so how we would actually show up here, the more repetition, the better. Um, but how we would actually show up is like, let's say it's to start a business. We're not going to like go start trying to sell our services on day one. We might start a courageous action that's like asking for advice from a friend. It's a very small incremental step. And then what we actually want to do after we do it is we want to cognitively reframe it. So we go, oh, I asked for help. That wasn't so bad. I can do that. And so we want to think an empowering thought that's supporting that empowering action as well. And ideally, we're titrating it to your point, because the more repetition and incremental doses we get, the more we get repetition, the more repetition, the more firing and wiring at a subconscious level and the more emotional benefits we get. So I pick two to three. Because A, it allows us to have incrementalism. We don't have to do huge ones. We can do consistent small ones, and we get that patterned in. But also we get more emotion, more repetition, and it's just better for reprogramming.
- [45:23]
A
Got it. And you improve, you transform faster, right?
- [45:26]
B
Yes, exactly. And I would always tell people too, sort of. One last quick thing is make the actions in alignment with the person you are trying to become. Don't just say, oh, hey, I'm going to take any action that's pushing me outside of my comfort zone. The actions of the person that starts that business, that is happy, that is joyful, whatever the goal is, it's alignment in regard to those actions.
- [45:43]
A
I don't think we're ever going to end this podcast because I keep thinking of something and then. You think of something? No, because I just thought of something. It was my first day of sales when I was 19 years old and I went out to sell Cutco and I was trying to break the all time record and I needed to sell $1,300 a day. And my first day I'm like, all right, I'm going to sell at least 1300. And I had three appointments scheduled. I didn't sell on the first one, didn't sell on the second one, didn't sell on the third one. And it's my first day where like literally my beliefs around whether or not I can do this are forming, right? So I call my mentor, my manager, Jesse. I go, and I was just embarrassed. I was humiliated because I was like I'm gonna break the record. When I left the office that day, he goes, hal, how did it go?
- [46:22]
B
You know?
- [46:23]
A
And I'm like, my grandparents said they were too old and their neighbor said they didn't need knives and the other forgot the other one. But I said, yeah, I didn't sell anything, man, I'm sorry. I was so like embarrassed. And he goes, hell, hey man, it's called the law of averages. It happens. He said, let me ask you a question. Do you want to be successful in life? And I said, well, yeah, of course. And he said, what do you think a successful person would do right now? And I go, they'd probably get on the phone and schedule more appointments for tomorrow. He goes, what are you going to do? I go, I'm going to get on the phone and schedule appointments for tomorrow. So that's such a real life thing where he literally framed. He didn't just say, you need to get on the. He didn't tell me what to do. He asked me, do you want to be a successful person? So if you're listening to this, do you want to be in a happy marriage? Do you want to be a business owner? Do you want to be financially free? Do you want to be a morning person? Do you want. Do you want to be a blank? Of course. Yes, of course. I want to be this thing that I aspire to. Great. What would that person do today in this situation? So I love that you said that. And it just brought me back to that 19 year old me that was like, yes, I want to be that person.
- [47:39]
B
Such a great story too.
- [47:41]
A
Anything to add to that? I could talk to you all day. Taste?
- [47:43]
B
No, no. I could go down so many rabbit holes. But I think at the end of the day that's exactly it. Right. Is like you want to actually bring that into alignment with like, who do I want to become? What are my goals? And if you're doing the belief reprogram, you've sourced your beliefs and you're doing the belief reprogramming, really getting that in at a subconscious level, then you're actually doing action along with it. You're framing it. Every time you take that action step, you're framing something positive. I did that. Like in that example, you'd call, book the appointments, be like, yeah, I still booked the appointments, I still showed up. Look at me. Like, I show up anyways. And like you start framing in that, like, this is who I am. Exactly. Then you start to really crush it. So doing those two things, there's lots of other reprogramming tools out there, but those are some really good ones for anybody just. Just looking to kick off.
- [48:21]
A
So a couple things. If you're listening to this right now, do what Thais talked about, right? Like, take the actions. And if you need to rewind and listen to them again. Right. This podcast is not entertainment. This podcast, the purpose of this podcast, to me, it's like, I want this to be like a coaching session for you. I want this to be where you leave this and you're like, okay, I'm gonna do the things that I learned. So that's for everybody listening or watching this. You're obviously a wealth of knowledge and information and practical information. Where can people get a hold of you, find you, learn from you? What books would you recommend that you've written? Like, you tell people how they can keep going with you?
- [48:59]
B
Yeah. So I am at the personal development school. So Thais Gibson T H A I S Gibson Dash Personal development school. I put pretty much daily content out about everything related to the subconscious mind. A lot related to, like, attachment styles and our programming on YouTube and then at the personal development school on instagram. And then personaldevelopmentschool.com is where we have 60 different courses all about different areas of life and how to reprogram them. It's like the personal development school for the subconscious mind, basically.
- [49:25]
A
So cool. I love Personal development is like the core of my being. Yeah. So I just. I love this. Well, I am so grateful for you. I appreciate you. And, yeah, just thank you so much for bringing the best of you today. I really appreciate it.
- [49:39]
B
Thank you so much for having me. And I just like your energy and how you show up is just so contagious and amazing. And I just love, absolutely enjoyed this. I feel like I could sit here for six hours and just chat with you, but this was fantastic. Thank you for having me.
- [49:50]
A
Awesome. All right, everybody, I love you so much. Go out there and make this the best day and week of your life, because there is no good reason not to. And take what you learned from Thais today and implement it and show up as the best version of yourself for yourself, for those you love and those you lead. And I will talk to you next week. Thanks for listening. To learn more about the achieve your goals podcast and to get access today's show notes, transcript and exclusive content from hal Elrod, visit Halelrod.com podcast thanks again for joining us. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of the achieve your goals podcast.