619: The 3 Ego Beliefs That Quietly Run Your Life with Aaron Abke

Summary

Achieve Your Goals with Hal Elrod

Episode 619: The 3 Ego Beliefs That Quietly Run Your Life with Aaron Abke

Date: January 7, 2026
Guest: Aaron Abke, Spiritual Teacher, Author, and Theologian

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Hal Elrod sits down with spiritual teacher and author Aaron Abke to explore the central themes of Abke’s new book, The Three Beliefs of Ego: A Sufferer's Guide to Freedom. The conversation dives deep into the nature of ego, how it perpetuates suffering, and how understanding its core beliefs can unlock genuine inner freedom. With Hal’s curiosity and Aaron’s theological background, the discussion also traverses the intersection of spirituality and organized religion, personal awakening, and practical paths to liberation from suffering.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Ego and Why It Matters

[03:21]

• Aaron on Ego: “The ego is not your sense of self. The ego is your false sense of self, which is why it can be transcended.”
• Emphasizes ego as an activity or mental process, not a fixed thing. Ego is the mind’s act of identifying with form—“not a noun, but a verb.”

Why it’s problematic:

• [05:02] Ego creates suffering by making us believe we’re separate, lacking, and need external fulfillment.

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2. The Three Core Ego Beliefs

[05:17-07:57]

1. Belief in Lack: (“I am not enough. I am lacking.”)
   • Drives relentless seeking of external validation or achievement.
2. Belief in Outcome-Based Happiness:
   • “I’ll be happy when…” or “Outcome happiness” as opposed to “no reason happiness”—happiness without cause.
3. Belief in Control:
   • The idea that “I am the doer,” which ignores our interconnectedness and true limits of free will.

Notable Exchange:

• Hal: “So the third belief being control... I teach that extraordinary effort is needed—how do you reconcile that?”
• Aaron [09:09]: “There’s a deeply embedded belief that I am truly an isolated actor in the universe. But I am being lived. There’s a greater power flowing through me.”
• Aaron distinguishes between practical effort and the spiritual realization that our agency is nested within a greater cooperation with life.

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3. Challenging Doership & Divine Timing

[11:33-16:00]

• Analogy: The last domino thinks it knocked over the line, ignoring the chain reaction before it.
• Hal shares his own story: Trying for years to reach a goal (1 million book sales), realizing only in retrospect how each external factor and relationship contributed.
  • Hal [14:58]: "But I had faith in something greater... you can only connect the dots looking backward."

Aaron:

• Life happens in 'God's timing,' which may differ from our egos' plans.
• “You were God’s chess piece being moved around the board.”
• Realizing our cooperation with life reduces suffering and frustration when outcomes don't match expectations.

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4. Deconstructing Religion and Christ’s Teachings

[18:43-41:44]

Aaron’s Background

• Pastor’s son, bachelor's in theology and music, master’s in biblical studies.
• Deconversion story: left institutional religion, but deepened spiritual journey.

Critique of Paul’s Influence

• Paul’s writings are shaped by Greco-Roman thought; contain contradictions to Jesus’s reported teachings.
• Raises skepticism about literal interpretations and authenticity of various Biblical texts.
• Calls to “distinguish the teachings of Christ from the dogmas of Christianity.”

The Nature of Salvation and the Inner Kingdom

• [35:14] Hal: “The kingdom of God is within you.”
• [36:00] Aaron: “You’re spot on, brother. The word ‘believe’ in the Greek means to trust in, to obey—not just mental belief.”

The “I Am” Teachings

• Jesus’s “I am the way, the truth and the life” is about recognizing the divinity within, not enforcing exclusivity or dogma.
• “You always know yourself as the first person in the present moment… You are always the ‘I am.’”

Notable Quote [43:12]:

“The ego tries to rob our I am nature and attach it to forms... but the truth is you’re just the I am. Everything else was added to you later.”
— Aaron Abke

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5. Suffering vs. Freedom – The Path to Peace

[48:11-51:56]

• Aaron’s Awakening: Two weeks of profound inner peace after listening to Eckhart Tolle, then the return of ego.
• Realizing freedom from suffering is possible, but requires investigation and surrender.
• Aaron: “Suffering... is the mind’s resistance to pain and challenge, not the pain itself. Pain is inevitable—suffering is optional.”

The Sufferer’s Guide to Freedom

• Freedom defined: Peace that persists through challenges, stemming from surrender and trust.
• “When we get to a place of full surrender, we can’t suffer anymore because we can’t resist anymore.”

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6. Unity and Oneness – Beyond Division

[46:52-47:19]

• Hal and Aaron discuss how ego-driven constructs create division—unity is the natural result of spiritual realization.
• “We all have far more in common as human-slash-spiritual beings than we will ever have different… All the differences that divide us are constructs of the ego.”
  — Hal Elrod

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• [03:21] Aaron: “The ego is a verb—an activity of identifying with form—not something to be killed or befriended.”
• [11:04] Aaron: “You’re in this maze of human existence... you have free will within that maze, but not the freedom to leave the maze.”
• [31:40] Aaron: “No Greek scholar would say ‘believe’ means to mentally believe... it means to trust, obey, to give your whole being over.”
• [48:54] Hal: “Once you’ve been liberated, then you really realize how it was.”
• [51:26] Aaron: “The ego is the mind’s war against reality.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:21] – Redefining ego & why it matters
• [05:17] – The three beliefs of ego
• [09:09] – Effort, doership, free will, and spiritual practice
• [14:58] – Trusting in divine timing; Hal’s book journey
• [18:43] – How ego shapes religion & religious dogma
• [27:07] – Leaving Christianity but following Christ
• [31:40] – Greek meaning of “belief” in Jesus’s teachings
• [43:12] – “I am” consciousness vs. ego identity
• [46:52] – Unity and division: overcoming egoic separation
• [48:11] – Aaron’s spiritual awakening & the reality of freedom from suffering
• [51:26] – Freedom as surrender to what is; ending the mind’s resistance

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Where to Find Aaron Abke

• YouTube & Social Media: @AaronAbke
• Website: aaronabke.com
• 4D University online academy for conscious expansion

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Closing Reflections

This episode masterfully bridges deep spiritual philosophy with practical guidance, inviting listeners to question the inherited beliefs of ego and religion, and to step into a more unified, peaceful way of being. Through Aaron’s scholarship and Hal’s openness, the message is clear: suffering is optional, and freedom is found in surrender, self-inquiry, and unity with all life.

Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome to the achieve your goals podcast. The show that empowers you to wake up to your full potential and achieve your biggest goals and dreams. I am your host, Hal Elrod and I invite you to join us each week as we share actionable strategies to take your life to the next level, as well as interview world class experts and entrepreneurs who have achieved extraordinary goals themselves. And we ask them to give you a peek behind the curtain and teach you exactly what you need to do to do the same. Ready? Here we go.

[B]

Foreign.

[A]

My guest today is Aaron Abke, someone who I discovered a little over a year ago and I've been binge watching his YouTube videos ever since. In fact, he has over 22 million views on his YouTube videos because his message resonates with people. Aaron is a spiritual teacher, he is a thought leader and he's the author of this book right here that I just finished reading cover to cover this morning, the three beliefs of ego, A sufferer's guide to freedom. In fact, if you look, I don't know if you can tell from there, but I've dog eared almost every other page of this book. It's a sufferer's guide to freedom and it really does teach you how to go from suffering mentally, emotionally, internally and even spiritually to true inner freedom. Aaron is known for offering a fresh perspective on self realization, religion and spirituality. His online academy for conscious expansion is called 4D University, has over 10,000 members. Needless to say, people resonate with his message. Aaron's passion and purpose is to awaken humanity to the awareness of our oneness with God and with each other. I think you'll love this conversation and I'm just going to let you know. We start with talking about the three beliefs of ego. Then Aaron goes really deep into theology. He has a bachelor's in theology, a master's in biblical studies.

[B]

Aaron.

[A]

And he's able to bring you a perspective on religion that very few people are able to. He's a son of a pastor. And then of course we bring it back to how to end your suffering and achieve your freedom. Enjoy this conversation with Aaron Apke. Hey, it is so good to see you, Hal.

[B]

Great to finally connect with you, man. We've been in each other's spheres for a while.

[A]

Yeah, here we are. And then we have a mutual friend who's a new friend for me longer. When did you and Kyle cease meet?

[B]

Oh, gosh, like four or five years ago probably.

[A]

Oh, that long? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Good friend.

[A]

Yeah, it was, it was so Wild Kyle. I was literally looking at his website like a few weeks ago and like three days we were like looking at his website and I'm just learning from him and, and then like three days later I get the message from him and then find out he knows you. And dude, when I went to his.

[B]

House the other day, you were on the phone with him. Yeah, I was like, oh, how? I'm doing his pod in a few weeks.

[A]

Here's what I want to get into, man. So your book Three Beliefs of Ego, you just saw it. This is the most dog eared book. Maybe like, look at that. I've seen every third page, every other page, man. So the three beliefs of ego, A Sufferer's guide to Freedom. Here's where I want to start. So you are known as a spiritual teacher and ego is an interesting, it's a very loaded word. I think a lot of people misinterpret it with arrogant. Right? Like, oh, that person's egotistical, they're arrogant. Right. Let's start with defining what is ego. How would you describe it? Why should we care? Why is it relevant? Why should we be thinking about it? Yeah.

[B]

Well, I think the big thing I try to do in the book is to redefine ego in a more helpful way because there's a lot of misguided definitions that get thrown around and some of them are more helpful than others. But the one that is most commonly heard is like the ego is your sense of self, you know, so you can't live without your ego and the whole thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And in the book I say this is a close definition, but we need to add one extra word in there to make it perfectly succinct, which is the word false. Ego is not your sense of self. The ego is your false sense of self, which is why it can be transcended. Its influence can be transcended. Right. So the definition I give in the book, I actually give three different definitions because I don't think there's any one way to completely encompass, you know, the ego.

[A]

Words are just words. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And as you say, it's just such a loaded term and idea. But the first and I think best definition in the book is the ego is the mental activity of identifying with form. So the big misnomer I'm trying to dispel with this definition is that the ego is not a noun.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But it's a verb. So it's like a lot of times you'll hear people say you need to befriend Your ego or kill your ego. But you can't befriend or kill. A verb. Right. A verb is an action. You either do it or you don't do it, or you're aware of it or you're not aware of it. But killing it or befriending it is not in the picture. Right. So you can't kill or befriend your shadow in the same way that you can't kill or befriend the ego. It's a reflection of ignorance. Right.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's just your mind's attempt to know what it is by identifying with form. So it's an activity, a mental activity, to become aware of is what it is.

[A]

And why is it problematic?

[B]

It's problematic because it creates all of our suffering.

[A]

Mm. Would thus the subtitle of your book, A Sufferer's Guide to Freedom. Yeah. And in the book you said, to be human is to suffer. Yeah. I think that's really a Buddhist. Right. Kind of idea. Unpack that. Elaborate on that.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, suffering is an inescapable consequence of being a human being. Because humans, we could get into deep metaphysics on this if we want. But the basic idea is this realm we're in, the human realm, Earth Planet, is meant to be a planet of ignorance and dreaming, so to speak, of waking up and remembering who we are. So when our souls come here, we don't remember who we are, what the universe is, our connection to source or one another. We just kind of start from scratch. Right. And so the ego is the mind's attempt to fill in all those gaps of who am I, what am I here for? Why does the universe exist? Is there life after death? And the ego tries to come up with its own answers. And in order to come up with answers, you need an identity first. Like, who's the me, who's the I, who's the self that wants to know these things? And that's your reference frame for everything. Right. How you think about yourself and perceive yourself. So the reason the ego causes suffering is because it begins with this belief. The first belief, I am lacking. I am insufficient in some way. And so I need to fulfill my lack with outcomes and pleasurable things in the world. Right. My happiness is out there somewhere because it's not in here. And then that's the second belief. My happiness is out there. And then the third belief is I'm in control. I'm the doer of action. I'm the one who makes life happen. I'm an isolated Agent in this universe. Right. So the ego does not perceive the interconnectedness of all things. And so in this endless rat race or wild goose chase to fulfill myself with outcomes, all these attachments the ego creates is what leads to our suffering. Because there is no happiness outside of us. It's only within us. And so we got to turn within to find it. And the ego is predicated on always turning our attention outside.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Once I do blank, then I shall be happy. You call it no cause happiness. I think you have it a couple different names.

[B]

No reason happiness.

[A]

No reason happiness. Uncaused happiness. All right, so let's unpack these beliefs. Just you laid them out there. So the first one being a belief in lack. And therefore we have to do things, achieve things, get other people to love us so that we can feel complete. Right. So it's the belief I am not enough. Is that another kind of lack? Okay, second belief. Tell me again.

[B]

I call it. You could just summarize it as attachment. I also call it outcome happiness versus no reason happiness. Right. Outcome happiness is reason based happiness. I'll be happy when. If I could only get xyz, then I'll truly be happy.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

These are like deeply subconscious beliefs that run all human programming.

[A]

Right? Yeah, yeah. Now the third beliefs were. Actually I want to discuss this with you because it's counter to one thing that I teach. Yeah. So you state the belief again.

[B]

So I just call it the belief in control.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I am in control. I'm the doer of actions.

[A]

Okay. So you really. In fact, I just listened to an episode of you and Kyle did a podcast on the Aaron Abkey podcast.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On effort doesn't work. I think it was titled. Right. So I teach in one of my. I teach this thing called the miracle equation. And it's extraordinary effort combined with unwavering faith. Yeah. Is what creates miracles in our life or what code. Right.

[B]

So.

[A]

And I'm not. I'm really wanting to like reconcile and understand your perspective here, which is so effort doesn't work anymore. Whereas I'm going, well, no, no, you've got to put forth the extraordinary effort and then God kind of meets you halfway. So I'd love for you to unpack this idea of this third belief. And I know you talk about this idea of personal doership that we need to kind of get away from. So unpack that. And I'd love to go back.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. These are the juicy topics, man, that we could spend hours and hours talking about. Free will and all this Stuff. But first of all, like, with what you're teaching and what I'm teaching, we're kind of talking about different things. Or the podcast with Kyle.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Effort doesn't work anymore. That title was kind of predicated towards effort to improve yourself spiritually, to grow. Like, I got to make my spiritual growth.

[A]

It's a different context.

[B]

Different context.

[A]

Yeah, I got it.

[B]

But the deeper, like, metaphysics of it is non doership means. I think it's important to know what we mean when we say I'm not the doer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because a lot of people, even the ego in our minds, likes to straw man spiritual truths so that when it hears them, it goes, oh, that's ridiculous. If I'm not the doer, you're saying I should just say, stay home all day and drool and stare at the wall and do nothing, you know? Yeah, like, no, of course that's not what I'm saying. What we're saying is there is a deeply embedded, subconscious belief that I am truly an isolated actor in the universe.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which means I'm not aware of the constant interconnectedness of all things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the way that I. I give these kind of re. Qualifying statements as, you know, to help correct these beliefs over time and requalify them. And the one for the third belief is, I'm not in control. I am being lived. So it's like there's a greater power flowing through me and inspiring my actions, and everything that happens is by greater forces than I. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then another way we could say it is, I'm not in control. I am in cooperation. So it's not as if we're saying, you are just a puppet on strings. You have no free will. I'm not in that camp, per se. And that's a whole nother podcast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's more like you've been given a limited framework to exercise your free will. And in fact, it logically follows that all free will has to be expressed within some kind of container. Because it's like if you just had literally unbounded, infinite free will at all times, you would be God. You wouldn't be able to even do anything. Right. You have to have some restriction to exercise that free will. So it's like a maze, and if you're looking down on the maze from an aerial view, you can see all the turns and the right way to go, but the person who's in the maze can't. Right. From their perspective. So would you say, does that person in that maze have Free will.

[A]

It's limited free will with constraints. I love great visual anal. Yeah.

[B]

That's like a human lifetime.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like you're in this maze of human existence. And so it's true to say that you have free will within that maze. Yes. But it's like, do you have free will to not be in the maze?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No. Right. You're in the maze whether you like it or not. So that's the free will thing for me. So control or personal doership is this concession of saying I'm in a oneness kind of relationship with life, not a separation based relationship. So everything I do is inspired by forces and universal laws and other people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I can't take any personal credit for anything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I also use the analogy of a domino line. If I knock over a domino line and it goes around the room a million times and then final domino knocks over, the ego is like the second to last domino that says, I did it, I knocked over the last domino.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's unaware of the endless chain of cause and effect that led to that action. Right. So it's kind of a humility check.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Look, I'm in the flow of life. Life is living me. I'm one with it. And so I should open my awareness to the deeper meanings and movements of life that's happening rather than just saying, what do I want? How do I control this situation to my favor? I mean, that's the restricted ego based living that just leads to constant suffering.

[A]

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[B]

Right.

[A]

When the team was ahead the whole time. Right. And being like, I won the game. That you're like, dude, we all want, like, bro, this was a concerted effort.

[B]

Right? It's a team effort, dude.

[A]

The team effort. Yeah. Yeah. And I look at, like, my life, so it's so interesting for me. And, like, my spiritual journey is still always learning, questioning, curiosity versus, like, I got it figured out. Which religion very much is like, right. This is how it is. This is how it's always been.

[B]

Here's all the right answers.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Don't think for yourself.

[B]

You don't need anything else.

[A]

Right? Yeah. It's funny. Government. And there's actually a correlation there, but for sure. But the point is, for me, there are so many things in my life that. That I did put forth extraordinary effort. I worked really, really, really hard. And however, my timing, like, I tried to achieve a goal within a year or something. And it's like, great examples, actually. I tried to change 1 million lives 1 morning at a time with the miracle morning. And I put forth. I did everything in my power for a year, and it took. I was 987,000 copies short of my goal.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Right? So I sold 13,000 out of the million. And I was like, oh, God, what. What happened? I did. I gave everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the message I got was, your timeline was off. Like, keep going. Yeah, keep going. And it took six years to finally reach there. But here's the point. If I would have given up after year one and gone, oh, I wasn't able. My ego.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I didn't do it. I couldn't do it. But I had faith in something greater than me and that I was to continue on this journey. And in year two, I met a person that led to an opportunity in year three, that led to a relationship in year four that led, like. Right. Yeah. And it's only like Steve Jobs said, you can only connect the dots looking backward. That I was like, oh. And when it finally, I reached that million, I was like, oh, this is God's perfect timing. Yes. Right.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Speak to that in terms of, like, us working towards things. Life isn't the way we want it to be right now. Like, how do we reconcile that? How do we deal with not getting the results that we want or our ego wants and trusting the divine timing?

[B]

This is so great, man. Another great analogy we could use here is the chess analogy. Imagine whatever piece on the checkboard you use to eventually checkmate the opponent. Imagine that chess piece's perspective. Let's say it's a pawn or something, and that pawn has played this whole game, and it ends up checkmating the opponent and winning. And that pawn is like, I'm amazing. Look at what I just did. I just beat the whole game, you know?

[A]

And I'm just a pawn.

[B]

Yeah, and you're just literally a pawn for a higher mind that's just using you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So like you said, like, then year two, I met this person, and then year three, they introduced me to this network, and this network led me to that person. It's like you were God's chess piece just being moved around the board. So another way we can understand this whole concept. I'm not the doer is you say, well, what do you mean, Aaron? Of course I'm the doer. I can do whatever I want. I want to pick up this glass of water and drink it. Look, I just did it. I just disproved your whole theory.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Okay, so we can say yes, you know, you picked up the glass of water and drank it, but how are you digesting the water molecules and sending them into your cells and mitochondria? How are you breathing? How are you thinking? You're like, oh, no idea.

[A]

Yeah. How are you pushing blood through your veins?

[B]

Yeah. How do you do any of this stuff? Oh, you have no idea how you do anything that constitutes your physical life.

[A]

Being alive.

[B]

Being alive. Yeah.

[A]

That's pretty profound.

[B]

Doesn't sound like you're really in control of all that much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's more like you're in a cooperative effort with life. Right. This is the only premise that makes sense logically when you really investigate it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

These three beliefs of the ego, by the way, they only go on in our mind and dominate our thinking patterns because we don't investigate them and really, like, dice them down and contemplate them and pull them apart and think about them. And the more you do that with any idea, like any limiting idea, you should just keep contemplating it from every angle you can. Right. Until the idea just kind of disappears for you, it means nothing. Anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if you stay in one perspective of any idea or belief you have, it will stay entrenched in your mind forever because you have to bring in other perspectives to support. Yeah. To take the energy out of that belief, such as, I'm unworthy of love, no one loves me, I'll never succeed. Any of these kind of beliefs, you got to take that belief and really investigate it from many, many different angles, like a good philosopher would. Right. And then you suck the juice out of it. Because the ego's stories can't survive unless its premises are being accepted. So by the time you're looking at a belief from many perspectives, you. You're already kind of not accepting the perspective it wants you to have. Right. This is what religion does. Religion says, here's the right things to believe. Here's all your certainties. Do not question these.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the second you start asking your pastor some questions, you start bringing in some other perspectives. What happens? You get attacked, you get ostracized.

[A]

Don't think for yourself. Listen to what we said. We told you how to think. Right?

[B]

Yes. That is a perfect identical mirror to the ego. Ego is like a big religion in our brain. It doesn't want us to believe anything else but what it believes.

[A]

And also you wonder like that. Actually, this is a great segue, but in terms of how much ego created the world's religions. Right. 3,000 man made religions. Yes, roughly 3,000, give or take.

[B]

Something like that.

[A]

Yeah. And yeah. So this is interesting. So let's. Actually, this is a great segue into. I would love for those that don't know your work to go over your background. And so let me, let me just start with what I know, which is you were a pastor's kid, right? Your grandfather and father were both pastors, and that was your dream. And at 22, you fulfilled that. You became a pastor. And within like. Was it a year that you quit?

[B]

It was within, like. Yeah, it was within about nine months. And then I gave them three more months to phase me out because I felt bad that I just got hired and I quit.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So why did you quit? And I think you even left religion. Like talk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I just had a huge awakening.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like most people do out of. Out of religion. I was a super devout Christian, love Jesus, like a truly heartfelt Christian. But that's actually why I couldn't stay a Christian for very long, because the dogmas and the certainties were not satisfying me. As I got into my early 20s and I had a lot of questions that I couldn't find good answers for. And in my teenage years, I remember being like 15 and reading the story of Jonah and reading how at the very end of the book, it's like this weird ending where God's like, come on, Jonah, shouldn't I spare these people rather than destroy them when they have all this great livestock? And that's how the book ends, okay. All this great livestock. It's like I was like, whoa, the infinite omnipotent Lord of the universe cares about some peasants livestock, like, like that's a good reason not to slaughter them or something. Like, this doesn't feel like something God would say. This feels like something an ancient human mind would think about God and project. But I'm like, well, I'm 15 years old, I don't know anything. There's smarter people than me that are Christians.

[A]

Yeah, I bet they have Great. And I trust these adults that have taugh me all the things that they've taught me.

[B]

Right? Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's how I dismissed the cognitive dissonance for a while.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But as I got into my 20s and started to ask some of these questions, I could not find anyone to give me a satisfying answer. And in fact, every answer I got would make it way worse. Like, oh, there's some big red flags here based on these answers. And the first thing I deconstructed from was the Rapture, the whole idea of the second coming, and we're going to be sucked in, into the air and our clothes will be left and all this crap, okay. And I was like, this is just so cartoonishly weird. That can't be the universe I'm living in. And then from there it was like hell was next. And so by the time I'm a full time worship pastor at this church called Crossroads Bible Church in San Jose, I'm like, I don't believe half the stuff I'm singing in these songs. Like, I can't handle this poverty consciousness. I'm. I'm unworthy for such a worm as I Lord. Like, this isn't the God I know. And what really came to a head was when there's three different kind of big instances that happened. But the first one was a woman went on stage to give an offering testimony, and this man was standing behind her. And I'm with my scripture brain, I'm like, oh, please don't be what I think this is, which is this kind of very fundamentalist Christian belief that comes from some of Paul's writings that women are like, inferior to men, they should not speak in church. It's a shame for a woman to speak in church. If she does speak, she should have her head covered. And the way that modern Christian churches replicate the covering their head thing, because it's kind of outdated, is the husband has to cover the wife standing behind her. So, like, she can only speak on stage of her husband's right behind her. I was, like, ready to correct her at a moment's notice, you know?

[A]

And these seem more like man's opinions and beliefs as opposed to God's opinions and beliefs. Right. Based on the time, based on.

[B]

Right, yeah. So this is clearly an ancient world. Like this coming from an ancient world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I had just gotten married. I was 23. My wife was 20. And sure enough, they. They go sit down together and their husband and wife. And I'm like, oh, no. Like, I'm working at a church. That's super dogmatic, you know? And my wife was pissed. We got home and she was, like, cussing up a storm. Like, these people that think women are inferior to men.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

It's okay, babe. We'll find answers.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

And I'm thinking, I'll find. I'll do what all good Christians do, and they've come up with a contradiction in scripture, is I'll just find some other scripture I can use to refute that one with and push it out of the picture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm looking through Paul to try to find good things he says about women to redeem his bad things, and I can't find anything. And I'm like, oh, man. Like this really. He really was a misogynist.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And then I'm starting to see other things in Paul's writings, and I'm like, all this end times. Jesus is coming back. We're going to be sucked into the air and transformed into spiritual bodies at the trumpet sound. This is happening in my lifetime. Those of you reading this will all see this take place.

[A]

Oh, he says it's in his lifetime.

[B]

Oh, yes. First Thessalonians 4.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Paul is very explicit. There's no question about this in scholarship. Paul believed that Jesus was coming back in his lifetime and that in the same way that Jesus was resurrected and transformed from a physical body into a spiritual body. Paul did not believe in a physical resurrection, something most people don't know. He believed Jesus was transformed into a new genus of kind of super being or spiritual being that God was going to do to the whole world who were on the side of his kingdom coming.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The good side. And so he believed that Jesus was the firstborn among many, the second Adam.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Returning us back to the identic state that Adam and Eve lost when they fell, this kind of eternal, infinite spiritual body that lives forever. So Paul said, just as Jesus was resurrected and transformed, that's going to happen to all of us listening to this. And he literally went so far as to say, look, if you're a slave, don't even worry about getting free. If you're trying to find a new job or whatever, don't worry about it. If you're married, live like you're not married. Because any day now, any second now, Jesus is coming back. We're going to be caught up into the air. So I'm seeing all this stuff going. That's a definite false prophecy.

[A]

Which Bible verse did you say that was?

[B]

That's in First Thessalonians 4, chapter 4, I think. 4. 17.

[A]

All right, let me ask you a question. How many apps are you using for your personal development? Maybe a meditation app like Calmer Headspace, an affirmation app like I Am, or Think Up, a book summary app like Blinkist, a journaling app like 5 Minute Journal, a visualization app like Envision, an exercise app like 7 Minute Workout, and maybe even a habit tracking app to keep it all together. That is a lot to manage and a lot to pay for. What if you could replace all of them with just one app? Yes, it is called the Miracle Morning app and it is essentially seven apps in one. Hundreds of guided meditations and breathwork tracks, a full library of affirmations, plus tools to create your own visualization prompts for 10 key areas of your life. Guided workouts from 2 to 10 minutes long, book and audiobook summaries of top personal and professional development books, and a journaling tool with guided prompts. The wheel of life or a blank page to write freely. It simplifies your morning, saves you money, and helps you start every day with clarity, purpose, and energy. And it's one of the only apps in this space with a 4.9 out of 5 star rating. Try it free for 7 days. Just search Miracle Morning in your app store or go to miracle morning app.com to get started. All right, back to the show real quick, just for anyone listening. And they're like, who is this? What's this guy actually? Where is he talking from? Yeah, what's your background in terms, terms of what'd you go to school for? And I think you're still going to school.

[B]

Yeah, I went to Oral Roberts University in Tulsa.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I got a double bachelor's. I'd been to another college and gotten a bunch of credits in theology, and then I transferred to oru. And so I just said, you know what? I almost have a theology degree already. Let me just take these next three classes. And then I'm also going to get a music bachelor's degree. So I went to college for five years and I got a double bachelor's in music and theology to be a worship pastor. And then now I'm going back to college, taking my Masters in Biblical Studies.

[A]

Okay, got it. Yeah. That was the piece that I wanted. Because it's not flippant that you're just throwing out vague ideas.

[B]

But, yeah, pretty much everything I share just comes from secular scholarship. Like, I don't share anything that most scholars would be, like, surprised at. Most of the things I share, just consensus opinions and scholarship. But there's a giant gulf between Christian scholars and secular modern scholars who are not looking to impose a religious framework on the Bible. They come to very opposite conclusions on almost everything. So when Christians hear me say, like, there are no scholars who think that Paul wrote first or second Timothy, for example, they'll be like, what do you mean? Every scholar thinks he wrote it. It's like Christian scholars say that he did.

[A]

Right, okay.

[B]

Secular scholars and academics. There's nobody who thinks that. It's obvious. Forgery from the second century.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, now, so my understanding is that you've said you left Christianity to follow Christ, which sounds conflicting. Yeah, yeah. Can you expand on that? Yeah.

[B]

So this is from this whole story, right. Of deconstructing while I'm a pastor at a church, I'm reading Paul and I'm going, false prophecies, misogyny, non stop boasting. Like, I'd never really read Paul.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

For myself. And I. I encourage people who don't believe me to do this. Go read through Galatians, go read through Romans, first or second Corinthians. I mean, this guy just never stops talking about himself. He boasts, boast, I boast, I boast, I boast. He uses the word boast 62 times in his seven letter letters. And what's funny is he'll even say in 2nd Corinthians 12, 7, he says that basically Jesus gave him a demon to keep him humble because of the greatness of his revelations. He says, in order to keep me from becoming conceited due to the greatness of my revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan. In the Greek, it's satanios angelos. There's no other way you could possibly say a demon than that in Greek. A messenger from Satan sent to torment me. And he says, three times, I pleaded with the Lord to remove him from me, but he said, no, Paul, my grace is sufficient for you. So I'm like, okay, big problems here. Number one, Paul says Jesus gave him a demon essentially to keep him from being conceited, to humble him. It's like, where do we have any proof that Jesus would give people demons? In the Gospels, Jesus cast out demons from people. And Jesus actually says to the Pharisees, they say, aren't we right in saying you have a demon? And he says, if Satan casts out Satan, his kingdom is divided. Satan will never cast out Satan. So if the private Jesus. Because this is Paul's claim, Paul never met Jesus. Most people who go to church on Sundays don't actually know this. Right. Paul never met the living Jesus. The Jesus he claimed to meet was a sort of private Jesus he was meeting with in these visions he's having. Yes. And so this private Jesus Paul's talking to would not cast out a demon from him. So it's like, does that sound like Jesus to you? Jesus said, a demon won't cast out another demon. So then he goes on to say all these other things that are very contraindicated to the Jesus we see in the Gospels. For example, in Acts, it says Jesus strikes him blind on the road to Damascus. Right? The famous story. And it's like, where do we have evidence that Jesus would strike somebody blind? Jesus opened the eyes of the blind. In fact, when John the Baptist came to him to say he sent his messenger, saying, jesus, are you the one, the Messiah that we're expecting, or should we look for another? And Jesus says to them, go and tell John. The blind see the deaf hear the lame walk, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. So it's like Jesus made opening the eyes of the blind one of the criteria of knowing. This is how, you know, I'm the Messiah. I open the eyes of the blind. So he strikes Paul blind and gives Paul a demon. It's like, this is not adding up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I start looking at everything Paul teaches about salvation. And I'm like, paul never quotes any of Jesus's teachings. He never makes any commentary on, you know, the Lord taught this. And so here's what I think about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's just my gospel, my gospel, my gospel. He says it four different times. And it's all this confess and believe and we're going to get sucked out of here. It's very like Hellenistic dualism. And Paul was a diaspora Jew from the Mediterranean region. He was not a Hebrew Palestinian Jew like Jesus and his disciples. So he had this very Greco Roman Hellenistic way of thinking steeped in Stoicism and Platonism. And you see it woven all through Paul's writings. It's this very Greek way of seeing Jesus. Right. Jesus is kind of a demigod who comes down from heaven like Apollos and Perseus and Dionysus. He does miracles and he ascends back to heaven. Sometimes they die and they're resurrected. But it's the same motif in the Greco Roman world of true divine beings are pre existent demigods, sons of God or something. They come down, they hang out with us for a while, they blow our minds with their miracles and they go back to heaven. That's how we know they're not one of us, right? So they give this unique specialness to these beings. And the Nazarene Hebrew disciples of Jesus would have thought that was absolute blasphemy to say that a man can be God. And nowhere in Jesus's mouth. Christians would argue otherwise. But this topic is case closed for me. There's nowhere Jesus even hints at the idea that he's God. And Jesus never says anything Paul says about salvation like you have to confess me as Lord and Savior or believe in my death and resurrection. Jesus never tells anybody they have to confess him as Lord.

[A]

Now I want to real quick push back on that in that. And I wouldn't say push back, but just there's that passage in the Bible where Jesus says, and I'll probably misquote it, but something along the lines of the only way to God is through me.

[B]

Something 14:6 okay, yeah, I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, speak to that.

[B]

So if we just grant that John is a legitimate historical kind of rendering of Jesus's teachings, I can argue for that, that side as well. But again in secular scholarship, like there's no scholars who think John is this kind of historically accurate account of Jesus. It's, there's something in scholarship called the synoptic problem, which is that Mark, Matthew and Luke are very different. The Jesus depicted in the synoptics is very different than the Jesus in John.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And John is much later. So it's clearly this kind of late 1st century, maybe early 2nd century attempt to upgrade the Christology of Jesus. That doesn't mean there's nothing historical in it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It just means the depiction of Jesus is more mythology than memory. It's the way that this community, this kind of Johannine community in Ephesus came to see Jesus as this more Greco Roman figure. Now, I think some of these sayings we see, I think there's no question Jesus would have never said these things in public. He would have been. He would have been executed the next day if he had said these things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when you study the first century context, you're like, oh, that's why Mark makes a lot more sense than John. In Mark, Jesus is like, shh, don't tell anybody who I am. People like, you're the Messiah. He, like, doesn't want anyone to know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He heals people. And he's like, don't tell anyone I just healed you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because in the world he lived in, King Herod was brooding and looking for the next Davidic Messiah that he could kill him before he would galvanize the Jews and start this whole revolt. King Herod was terrified because he wasn't a real Jew like Jesus was, that his legitimacy was already questioned by the Jewish people. So he knew, like, if a Davidic heir rises up and says, I'm the Messiah, he will galvanize these people and we're gonna have a whole nother war with the Jews. And they didn't want any more wars with the Jews. So he was like, any peep I hear of someone who might be the Messiah, I'm chopping their heads off. And what does he do to John the Baptist, who some people thought was the Messiah? Hacked his head off immediately. So Jesus takes over for John and he's like, okay, I'm going to learn from John's mistake. Don't tell anybody I'm the Messiah. Keep it quiet. Keep it between us. So there's no way he would have gone around being like, I'm the way, the truth and the life, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think those phrases that we see in John may very well come potentially from private teachings of Jesus to his disciples. Because his inner circle, if you will.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because even in the Gospels, it says to those who are on the outside, everything is spoken in parables because he had to shroud his teachings in story format.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

So you wouldn't be accused of heresy and get in trouble, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it says. But to his disciples, he taught them everything directly. I can't remember which gospel that says that in, but it says he was teaching his disciples the legit Straightforward teachings in private and even in. In the Gospel of Thomas. The Gospel of Thomas is the secret sayings of Jesus spoken to Didymus, Judas, Thomas. So we have his public and his private teachings. Kind of two dichotomies. Right. So John may be some of the private teachings of Jesus that survived in earlier gospels, like the Egerton Gospel that John comes from.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So they may be historical. Who knows?

[A]

Let me ask you this. For me, I just. I wonder because the Bible's been translated. Right. And so that alone. Right. When it's from one language to another, it creates not necessarily a perfect translation. So I've always wondered that passage. Say it again. That the only way I'm the truth.

[B]

I think it's John 14:6. I want to say, tell me I'm the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me.

[A]

So my questioning is. Or just curiosity is, is it through me? As in, could it be through what I'm teaching you? The way? I'm telling you that you have to go directly to God, that greater thing. Right. That the kingdom of God is within. That to me, is the most. I was at church last Sunday. I take my family to church every week.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

And largely because I grew up Catholic. And that really instilled a really valuable moral compass for me, and I want my kids to have that. I'm also a sense of love and safety. But the kingdom of God is within you. And you know which passage that is?

[B]

Luke 17:3.

[A]

Okay. I love that. I can just throw it. Hey. I can throw out a butchered quote.

[B]

I got your back.

[A]

You got me. Yeah. So that actually resonates as so true for me. And in prayer and in meditation, I'm like, oh, yeah, God is within me. Yeah. And they literally, at church, the pastor this last week was like, God is separate from you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

God is a separate being you are to please. You know? And it was like, that's not what Jesus said.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. And so it feels aligned where it's like, the kingdom of God is within you. And the only way to God is through me, through my teachings. I'm just.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, it's like we have no way of knowing, but that feels right to me.

[B]

Well, you're spot on, brother.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is one of the kind of chief rebuttals when I say to a Christian friend, can you show me anywhere that Jesus said, you have to confess him as Lord and Savior and believe in his resurrection to be saved? And they'll go to these passages in John, where Jesus says, believe on me, believe in me. John 3:16, Whosoever believes in me will not perish but have everlasting life. And so the question is, what is the word believe mean? Does believe mean exactly to them in 2000 years ago what it means to us today? Probably not. So let's look at the Greek word piste you. It's the present active tense of the verb believe. And there are no Greek scholars who, who would say that that word means exclusively to believe in an idea in your brain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It does not mean that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It means to trust in, to ob. Commit oneself to. So it's like to give your whole being over. It's not about mentally believing in some concept.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It literally means obey. So like a more accurate translation of John 3:16 Again, pisteo is the active present tense verb would be that whosoever continues obeying me will never perish but have everlasting life. That whosoever continues trusting in me will not perish. So when Jesus is saying believe in me, he's saying obey me. And do we see that context in John? Oh yeah, we do. All through the Gospel of John. John 14:15. If you love me, keep my commandments. John 14:21. The one who has my commandments and keeps them is the one that loves me. And why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say?

[A]

I just read that yesterday. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Jesus actually rebukes his disciples in different parables and teachings numerous times in the Synoptics for calling him, confessing him as Lord, but not keeping his greatest commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. And he says, look, you could call me Lord all you want. You can do signs and wonders in my name for all I care. If you do not love the least of these, you have no part in my kingdom.

[A]

Right. Isn't the modern Christianity and kind of based on Paul's teaching of no, no, no, doesn't matter what you do. You can do anything you want. You can rape, pillage, steal, kill. Right. Be evil. As long as you confess Jesus, you're good. Free pass. Isn't that kind of the premise?

[B]

They would say no, they'd say, oh, that's a straw man. But if you really push them on it, they will say, yeah, it ult does come down to believing Jesus died for your sins and stuff and your good works can't save you. So they say, that's Aaron. You're teaching a works based gospel. It's this kind of straw man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

From Martin Luther. There is no reference in the Bible anywhere that says you can be saved by doing good works. There's no concept in the Bible of if you do one evil work, if you sin once you are worthy of eternal hellfire, God will never forgive you unless you have a blood sacrifice. Like that idea is nowhere in the Hebrew Bible. All through the Hebrew Bible, it's very clear. And Jesus echoes the same thing. Repent and God forgives you. Genuinely. Turn your heart to God in humility, and you have pleased the heart of God. And Jesus tells parables about this. He teaches this directly, and he says, look, if you do not forgive your brother his trespasses, your heavenly Father will not forgive yours, period. That's a stipend, man. There's no getting around that with other context. But if you confess him, he will, though. No, he didn't say that. It's like you always have to stuff words in the mouth of Jesus.

[A]

What I love about here, listening to you is the depth of your knowledge and understanding. Right. You're not just speaking on, like, vague concepts.

[B]

A.

[A]

You grew up as a pastor's son. Yeah. You then got your bachelor's to become a pastor. You then became a pastor. Right. And so it's like. It's like your depth of. Of understanding and wisdom and. And actually, I want to talk about this. Your Spiritual Awakening, 2017. I know Eckhart Tolle played a big part of it. He was a big part of mine. In my twenties, I read Eckhart Tolle and that really also. And then I noticed you quoted Ken Wilbur in your book. I read Ken Wilber, Andrew Cohen. Right. So in my 20s, I really went down this. I wanted to understand what the world believed about religion, not just my isolated Catholicism that I grew up in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm like, oh, when I once I learned, I'm like, oh, there's thousands of religions. Well, so. But mine says it's right and the.

[B]

Only one is right.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, either they're all right or they're all wrong. Or to me, it's. They're all human beings doing our best to try to make sense of something that is beyond language, really. Right. Like, you know, we're putting words to try to describe it, but like, if someone said, what is God? And you go, oh, it's a father. So, like, it's a parent with kids. Like, explain. You're like, yeah. So, like, if you really drill down, you keep saying, okay, so, but what is that? But what is God? Is it energy? Yeah. No one can describe. No one can describe other than something they heard. Well, I read in the Bible that it said this, or I read in the Quran that it said this. And you know, like, but what is God? Yeah, like what does he look like, what does he smell like and what does he sound like? And you go, oh, he's beyond our human senses. Thus our ability to fully comprehend what God is. Anyway, that was my riff.

[B]

Can I tap into that real quick?

[A]

Please, please.

[B]

Because you mentioned John. We brought up John 14:6. I am the way, the truth and the life, Right? I did this my whole life. So I'm speaking from my own experience. One thing that religious people will do of all religions, not just Christianity, is they're bringing a framework in a set of mental beliefs to the text and then they're enforcing it constantly on the text. This text must mean what I already believe it means. So when they see a verse like I am the way, the truth and the life, they go, oh, see, if you don't confess Jesus as Lord, you burn in hell. And I say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Because that's where in that verse did Jesus say to confess him verbally as Lord or that if you don't, you will go to hell. Like, well, it's implied. We all know. No, no, no, no, it's not that simp. And you look through other passages from Jesus and you're like, oh yeah, this actually contradicts what you said over there. Right. So we can't just enforce our own framework onto the text and think we're reading it honestly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what are some possible meanings of that verse?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, in the book I talk about what is God, what is the true self of us. And I use the divine name Egoemi or I am. Right. And this is classic, you know, Neo Advaita, Hinduism and Buddhism. This idea that what we are is the awareness itself. The way we know that we exist, that we are self aware, that's the divine presence within us and within all things. So we can call it I am because that's how we always know ourselves. You always know yourself as the first person in the present tense. Inarguable. Right. You have never known yourself as the second or third person or in the past or future, you are always the first person in the present moment.

[A]

So everything else is just an illusion. Is the thought is our mind. Where does the like I am. Yeah, God is the great I am. But also to me that. How would you decipher between I am based on your ego.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Tapping back into your book three beliefs of ego I am based on ego and I am based on a higher truth, a higher version of yourself.

[B]

It's a great question. The ego tries to rob our I am nature and attach it to forms. That's why I said the ego is the mental activity of identifying with form. It says, I am this and that and this, and I'm a man, I'm Aaron, I'm 6 foot 2, I'm this many years old, on and on and on.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the truth is you're just the I am. Everything else was added to you later. And you can always find an earlier version of yourself in your life where you weren't a man yet, you weren't six whatever feet tall, you weren't this many years old. So were you not you then? Yeah, you still were. So what was fundamentally the same? What is the thing about you that never changes or undergoes a state of change?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's that I am consciousness and awareness. So Jesus, if anything, is invoking the divine name, I am, is the way, the truth and the life. Jesus is not speaking as a person or as a body. This is a hugely misunderstood thing in Christian theology because they don't have this non dual framework that Jesus clearly said, hey guys, if you want to be my disciple, first criteria, deny yourself and then you can take up your cross and follow me. Said, what do you mean, Jesus? How do you, how do we deny ourselves if we're going to follow you? He clearly wasn't asking us to deny our true self or the God nature in us. He was telling us to deny the false nature, the egoic nature. Right. So if ego death was the first prerequisite Jesus gave his disciples, it stands to reason that Jesus probably had undergone an ego death already himself. Right. Why would he require his disciples to do something he himself had not done? Sure. So if he's going around saying, hey guys, deny yourself if you're going to follow me, he probably had denied himself.

[A]

Yeah. So he wasn't leading by example.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Right. Like any good leader would.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So when Jesus is saying, I'm the way, the truth and the life, he is not speaking as a person. He is not saying, I, the person, Jesus of Nazareth am the way. He's identified with the divine essence of the Father within him. That's why he says, I and the Father are one. If you've seen me, you've seen the Father. He had a complete oneness identity with God. And so it's from that foundation he's always speaking from. When he makes these statements and understanding that makes all the difference in interpreting Jesus through John. Right.

[A]

What you just said, I connected. So I and the Father are one. The kingdom of God is within you. Right. Like if you. If you draw a circle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. Like, interesting. So Jesus said, I and the Father are one and the kingdom of God is within you. Right. It creates this. Yeah. This more of a personal connection that we. Like. I love the analogy. And you weren't the first one to use it, but you used it really well. I think Neil Donald Walsh has used it. But the ocean and. Right. God being the ocean, you know, so to speak. And that we are all droplets of water in the ocean made of the exact same material.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Indistinguishable from one another based on the shape or the size of that droplet of. Right. Which. And that helps for me to really understand it.

[B]

I'll give you a better one, too. That's from the book, is the ray of sunlight analogy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is how we can understand the frame of mind Jesus was speaking from. It's like, how could Jesus possibly say, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father. We only can hear it as an ego. Right. But imagine a ray of sunlight coming from the sun. That ray of sunlight could absolutely say, if you've seen me, you've seen the Son. I and the Son are one.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

But then Jesus also says, but my Father is greater than I. I and my Father are one. All power has been given to me, but my Father is greater than I. It's that whole being lived thing we talked about. Jesus understood this concept.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Although I'm one with God, I don't take personal credit for it. I always give all power to God. So the ray of sunlight could also say, I and the sun are one, but the Son is greater than I. Also true. That's what oneness means. It means shared beingness.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It doesn't mean that there's no uniqueness. We're all unique expressions of God, but we are all from the same ontology or essence of God.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I love one of the messages in your book around unity, that for me, in 2020, I was like, God, what message should I be preaching right now? Should I be bringing to, you know, my podcast listeners in our community and this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was unity. It was like the world is becoming so divided right now. Right versus left Republic, you know, massacre versus non massacre. Baxter versus Anti Vaxxer.

[B]

Palestine. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah. So divided. And like, my message was, we all have far more in common as human Slash spiritual beings than we will ever have different. Right. It doesn't matter the color of your skin or where you were born or what your beliefs are. It's interesting because all of the differences that divide us are all constructs of the ego.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. It's. I've decided that our way of thinking is right and your way of thinking is wrong. Right. It's like, it's all ego. I want to circle back. I know, dude, we could talk all day. I know. We have limited time here. Sufferer's Guide to Freedom. That's the subtitle of the book. How do you define freedom? Because before you answer this. Yeah, yeah, I love the subtitle. I was thinking about this on the way here because it's like you really talk about where people begin, which is, yeah, we all suffer, we struggle. Right? Yeah, it's part of being human. Yes. We struggle internally, most. And it's all internal, by the way. Right. Because there are people that have transcended suffering, which I define as enlightenment, which is like, oh, I'm at peace with all things. I can't change. Yes. Therefore I do not suffer. I do not struggle anymore. Like, yes, I struggled, there's some challenges, but I'm completely at peace. So I want to hear how you would, I think suffering. Everybody gets mental, emotional, physical, financial suffering. But it's the guide to freedom. What's the end point for readers of your book? How do you define freedom?

[B]

Yeah, that's a great question, man. Well, it's the crux of the book for sure. And I talk about. I begin the book with my own awakening experience you mentioned, because I had this incredible two week experience of enlightenment listening to an Eckhart Tolle lecture.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On the balcony of the Googleplex gym that I worked at.

[A]

Where you were a personal trainer. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I mean, fancy all places to have a spiritual awakening. Google.

[A]

Google.

[B]

The least expected spiritual. But that's where it happened. Yeah. And two weeks in that state and then came out of it 14 days to the day. And my ego started coming back online and I talk about the whole story in the book and it was just terrifying because I'm like, no, no, I don't want to go back to that hellish state of consciousness I was in before. I was deeply stuffed.

[A]

Once you've been liberated, then you really realize how it was, right?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Going to hell's awful enough on its own, but once you've been to heaven for two weeks and then you go back to hell, it's way worse. Trust me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But that experience gave me two huge gifts. Which was, number one, a deep and abiding conviction that freedom from suffering is indeed possible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I did not believe before that that's a pie in the sky hopeful wish, you know? But after two whole weeks of not even a nanosecond of anything but peace and joy and love, how could I deny? Now, it's maybe extremely difficult to get to that state of consciousness, but it is possible. And like, that's all I need is a glimmer of hope.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So conviction that it's possible. Number two, just an all consuming desire to do anything, give up anything, lay down any treasure necessary to get back to that heavenly state of consciousness again. And I didn't have that before either. I had a lot of attachments and things in the world that I was pursuing. So those are the two ingredients for liberation to me. Because suffering, when I use that term, I use it in the neo advaita sense that it is the mind's resistance to pain and challenge, not. You got it. Playing sports hurts, right? Like football or something. Like you're going to get beat up and bruised, you might have to get stitches sometimes. But football players, they're not suffering, they're doing what they love, you know, it's.

[A]

Part of the game.

[B]

They love it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So life can be like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Where every pain, every challenge, every pain point becomes something you're grateful for. And you have a deep, abiding trust that God, you're going to work this out for my good. You're going to teach me something powerful. You're going to heal me in some way. And you know that my heavenly Father's will for me is always good. And so you go through the challenge or the pain with that groundedness. And Jesus said, build your house upon the solid rock, not upon the sand. Right. The solid rock is that deep surrender to God. And when we get to a place of full surrender, we can't suffer anymore because we can't resist anymore. So we still experience pain and challenge in life, but it doesn't cause suffering, meaning it doesn't leave traces within us after the events are over.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're going through a painful event, it's going to be painful while you're going through it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But when you get to the other side of it, there's no more pain and you can continue on in the present moment. What the ego does through its resistance is it creates stories and narratives and identities out of our pain and keeps telling them to us. And Building the evidence.

[A]

Things from our childhood that we're suffering over because we're resisting the reality from the past. Wishing and wanting that it didn't happen. That creates a lack of control.

[B]

You got it.

[A]

Yeah, that's exactly it.

[B]

So that's the sufferer's guide to freedom is freedom from your mind's resistance. And that's the second definition of the ego, by the way, is the ego is the mind's war against reality or the mind's conflict with reality. Ego is the voice in our head that looks at what actually is and what is actually happening and says, no. Yeah, in some way.

[A]

Yeah, it's fighting the flow of life or of God. Right. That's what you say life is. It's. How do you say, living?

[B]

Yeah, life is living you.

[A]

Life is living you. Right.

[B]

Versus I'm living life. It's like. No, life is living you, buddy.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I will say this. I finished your book this morning and as I mentioned. Yeah, exactly. I was like, I gotta get it done, you know, which by the way, I pre ordered the book like a year ago when it was announced and then it kept getting pushed back. Pushed back, pushed back. A couple things I want to do. Number one is I was on Amazon this morning. I don't even know what I was looking for, but I looked at your book and the very first review at the top says one of the most important spiritual books I've ever read. And so that's, that's high praise. Yeah. And so for anyone watching this, I encourage you to get the book the Three Beliefs of Ego, A Sufferer's Guide to freedom. You will be glad that you did. Is it able audiobook yet?

[B]

Audiobook and Kindle, yeah.

[A]

Okay. Did you read it?

[B]

I recorded it.

[A]

Oh, you recorded. I mean, yeah. Okay, good. Yeah, I didn't do my first book. I didn't record and. Okay, and now I did. It's not easy, right?

[B]

Oh, it took like seven sessions of like three hours. Oh man.

[A]

It's a challenge. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, where can people learn more from you? Because here's the thing, it's like this was such a, this was a drop in the ocean of Aaron Abkey. So where can people follow you? Learn from you? I know you lead your 4D university. What's the best way to follow up with Aaron Abkey?

[B]

Yeah, it's super simple. It's just Aaron Abkey on any platform, YouTube.com Aaron Apke, Instagram, aaronabke.com if you type in the name, you'll find me.

[A]

And if you're don't know how to spell Aaron apke it's A, A, R, O, N, A, A Ron. Oh Aaron. And then apke A B, K, E. So oh Aaron, this is a pleasure man. First of many conversations me and you and Kyle see swept to get together and just hang out, get some time together. Maybe get get a bigger studio and.

[B]

Do all three tripod for sure.

[A]

Heck yeah. Heck yeah.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

All right, well, goal achiever, thank you for tuning in to the achiever goals podcast and go out there and make this the best day and the best week of your life, because there's no good reason not to. And get the book the three beliefs of ego, A sufferer's guide to freedom. And follow Aaron Abke on all social media platforms. And I'm telling you, go down the YouTube Aaron Abke rabbit hole. 22 million views on YouTube. There's a reason his message resonates with people. So love you so much. See you next week.

[B]

Thanks for listening. To learn more about the achieve your goals podcast and to get access today's show notes, transcript and exclusive content from Hal Elrod, visit Halrod Forward Slash podcast. Thanks again for joining us. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of the achieve your goals podcast.