Acquiring Minds Podcast Summary

Podcast: Acquiring Minds
Host: Will Smith
Episode: Buying Small to Then Buy Larger ($1m SDE)
Guest: Joe Solberg (Owner of Point B Communications and Sunny & Ash)
Date: December 31, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores Joe Solberg’s entrepreneurial journey as he transitioned from the corporate world to buying not one, but two businesses: first, a small 3D rendering firm (Sunny & Ash), and later, a much larger branding agency (Point B Communications). The conversation with host Will Smith focuses on the strategy of “stair-stepping” into larger acquisitions, skills and lessons learned, the realities of self-funded searching, and the nuances between buying a job and buying a company that can run without you. Notably, Joe’s story highlights why some searchers deliberately start small and build their way up.

Key Discussion Points

1. Joe’s Background & Path to Acquisition Entrepreneurship

Entrepreneurial Roots:
- Grew up in Seattle; father owned a cabinet shop.
- "Owning a small business seemed like the most normal thing in the world to me from day one." (04:19, Joe Solberg)
Early Hustles:
- Ran a marketing agency in college; W2 stints, medical sales, then an MBA focused on entrepreneurship.
Corporate Years:
- Worked at GE and Dover for seven years in various functional roles, seeking a path to managing a P&L but told it would likely take "decades, maybe never." (06:11)

2. Discovering Acquisition Entrepreneurship

Inspired by Friends and Search Fund Pioneers:
- Inspired by dentists who bought practices; discovered search funds reading HBR and Stanford studies.
- Spoke with Irv Grousbeck, the "granddaddy of search."
  - "He picked up...great guy, more than happy to help." (09:10)
Deciding on Self-Funded Search:
- Visited investors in Chicago and the Bay Area but chose to prioritize control/ownership, leading to a self-funded acquisition.

3. Making the Leap: Early Search & Family Dynamics

Leaving Corporate Security:
- Walked away from corporate job after "a challenging, crucial conversation" with his wife.
- She raised difficult but important questions about risk, PGs (personal guarantees), and stability.
  - "Isn't that exactly the opposite of everything that they taught you at business school?" (12:40, Wife, recounted by Joe)
- Ultimately, she supported him for the sake of their partnership and happiness.

4. First Acquisition: Sunny & Ash (3D Rendering Business)

Deal Process & Criteria (14:13–18:44):

Sourced through a broker after scouring 100+ SIMs; financials were primary focus.
Criteria: Business price range $1–2M; SDE $250–$400K+; open to any geography; less emphasis on industry.
Resource constraints imposed a ceiling rather than a floor on deal size.
Joe didn't know at the time that he could, in certain cases, add investors to a 7(a) deal.
Willing to move locations—flexibility was key.

About the Business (19:37):

3D rendering for real estate, products, home furnishings (Wayfair, etc.).
Founded by two cousins (Sunny Sultani and Ash Muhammad).

Deal Structure & Metrics (23:02):

Purchase price: ~$1.5M
- 20% seller note, 10% down, rest SBA 7(a).
Revenue: ~$1.3M; SDE: ~$400K
Headcount: ~8 staff (plus a dozen artists in Bangladesh).

COVID Impact & Pivot (25:20–28:44):

Pre-COVID, focused on hospitality design.
Hospitality market collapsed—revenues cratered.
Pivoted to home furnishings, producing mass renderings for companies like Wayfair.
- "Teeny tiny dollars per item…and they want thousands of items." (26:21)

Results & Growth (28:44–32:02):

Revenue peaked at ~$2M, then leveled as hospitality rebounded.
Business currently generates about $200K/year for ~5 hours/week of Joe’s time (managed by a hired operator).
- "Not huge dollars, but also a pretty great outcome." (32:13, Will Smith)

Key Lessons (35:50):

All project-based revenue—a grind, with minimal recurring contracts.
Realized the importance of recurring revenue for his next acquisition.

5. Transition to the Second Acquisition: What Changed?

Refined Search: Wanted a business in advertising/brand agency with strong recurring revenue.
Strategic Rationale:
- "It’s not theoretical anymore…you really feel it, like, oh man, I wish I didn’t have to chase so much." (35:50, Joe)
- Recurring revenues preferred (retainer relationships, ongoing B2B services).

6. Second Acquisition: Point B Communications (Brand/Ad Agency)

Search Criteria (47:00):

Size: Desired sale price $5–$7M (using max SBA loan as a ceiling).
Industry: Branding agency.
Location: Flexible, but found "perfect target" in Chicago—major ad agency hub.

Deal Structure & Rationale (55:47):

Deal at $5.5M (despite broker listing at $7.1M).
- 5% down, 5% seller note (counted as down), 90% leverage (SBA-backed).
Joe offered "what I felt was a reasonable, truly reasonable offer, good offer actually … The owners didn’t flinch." (59:40)

Metrics & Team (65:10):

Acquired August 2024.
Revenue at acquisition: ~$9M; SDE/EBITDA: ~$1M; Headcount: 27 (now 33).
On track for $12M revenue, ~$1.25M EBITDA in 2025 after key investments/staff expansion.

Business Model Insights (39:59–46:38):

Retainer-based recurring revenue, primarily B2B.
Capacity-based billing: Agencies move from project work to monthly retainers for stability.
- "Really what that is is just capacity that you’ll give to them to in-effect do projects. … The retainer model is probably an invention of service providers to get some sort of recurring revenue relationship." (39:50, Will Smith)
Cross-sell opportunities: Branding opens doors for creative work, media placements, etc.

Deal Diligence—Growth Levers (43:31):

Noticed potential to increase "share of wallet," especially within senior living clients.
- "They were dating a lot of senior living sites, but none … had decided to marry them yet." (45:36)
Has realized these cross-sell opportunities post-acquisition.

7. Post-Acquisition Structure & Owner’s Role

Management:
- Joe is NOT the day-to-day operator.
- One of the previous minority sellers (Hamish) became President—retained 2% equity.
- "I can insert myself where I’m wanted or where I feel like I can add value, but if I didn’t, it’s okay." (87:27)
- Joe focuses on strategic projects, especially building a sales engine.
Learned Lessons on Sales:
- Organic growth was always referral/inbound; direct outreach has proven difficult (relationship-driven industry).
  - "Both a strength and a weakness is that it’s so relationship driven." (78:23)
- Now exploring sales via conferences, industry events, networks, and B2B content.
Ownership Evolution:
- Sunny & Ash: "I absolutely 100% bought myself a job."
- Point B: "…can insert myself where I want, but it will run without me."

8. Reflections on ETA and Small-to-Large Progression

Joe would only recommend starting with a larger business if you have the resources and a compelling, credible story for lenders.
- "What I was lacking was the resources in the story." (88:28)
Experience from running a smaller business (even one only tangentially related) helps lenders get comfortable with a large, leveraged buy.
Will Smith observes:
- If you hit a ceiling in a small business, ETA skills allow you a “fourth option”—find a manager and go buy another business.
  - "For everybody listening … that’s probably now obvious, but it is, I don’t think it’s obvious at all to the average small business owner." (98:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Corporate Frustration:
"I finally got up the courage to ask … How soon could that happen possibly? And when the answer was like, you know, decades, maybe never … that was kind of my sign that maybe I’m not in the right spot." (06:13, Joe Solberg)
On Self-Funded Risk:
"You mean everything is getting tossed into this one bucket? … Isn't that exactly the opposite of everything that they taught you at business school?" (12:40, Joe’s wife, paraphrased)
On The Value of Starting Small:
"Without [Sunny & Ash], I'm never going to buy Point B for sure." (32:59, Joe Solberg)
On Recurring vs. Project Work:
"...it’s more, you know, for all the reasons that everybody does, it’s just stability. When you're actually running it and sitting in it, it's not theoretical anymore." (35:50, Joe Solberg)
On Broker Listing Prices:
"They listed it at 7.1. And so ... I offered what I felt like was a reasonable, truly reasonable offer … I wanted to buy a good business at a good price. And the owners didn’t flinch at all." (59:49, Joe Solberg)
On Business Independence:
"It’s not. I think that’s the sign of a great acquisition ... It's running without you." (86:13, Will Smith)
On Lender Scrutiny:
"I had to write an entire business plan of, hey, why does this make sense? Why does this acquisition make sense? Why are you okay to be the person that owns this business?... I just didn’t have the story before Sunny & Ash." (89:50, Joe Solberg)
On the Power of ETA:
"If you hit a ceiling in a business that you own … there's a fourth option ... find somebody who can run this business for me and then go look for another business to acquire." (98:15, Will Smith)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Joe’s background and early career: 04:18–06:54
Discovering search funds and ETA: 06:54–09:41
Deciding on self-funded search: 09:41–11:09
Conversation with his wife about leaving corporate: 11:45–13:47
Finding and acquiring Sunny & Ash: 14:13–19:37
Structure and financials of first acquisition: 23:02–25:00
Impact of COVID and business pivot: 25:20–28:44
Transition to hiring a manager and freeing up time: 30:32–32:13
Reflections and lessons learned from Sunny & Ash: 35:23–35:50
Refined focus for second acquisition: 35:50–37:59
Branding agency, retainer revenue, business models: 39:42–42:12
Deal structure and negotiation for Point B: 55:47–61:14
Revenue, growth, and investments at Point B: 65:10–68:32
Role as owner, president’s responsibilities, independence: 77:20–87:27
Analysis of starting small vs. large, lender’s perspective: 88:20–92:36
The "fourth option" that acquisition entrepreneurship creates: 97:06–99:00

Conclusion

Joe Solberg’s journey is a classic case of stair-stepping up in acquisition entrepreneurship. By starting small, he gained experience, cash flow, and credibility to take down a much larger opportunity. The episode provides practical insights into self-funded searches, risk mitigation, the importance of recurring revenue, structuring leveraged deals, and building a portfolio approach to business ownership.

For listeners considering ETA:

Buying small is a viable, even strategic, starting point.
Relationships (with lenders, sellers, team members) matter immensely at every stage.
With each acquisition, you build not only your wealth, but your capacity as an entrepreneur.

Connect with Joe:

Subscribe to more episode summaries:
acquiringminds.co

Acquiring Minds Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points

1. Joe’s Background & Path to Acquisition Entrepreneurship

Entrepreneurial Roots:
- Grew up in Seattle; father owned a cabinet shop.
- "Owning a small business seemed like the most normal thing in the world to me from day one." (04:19, Joe Solberg)
Early Hustles:
- Ran a marketing agency in college; W2 stints, medical sales, then an MBA focused on entrepreneurship.
Corporate Years:
- Worked at GE and Dover for seven years in various functional roles, seeking a path to managing a P&L but told it would likely take "decades, maybe never." (06:11)

2. Discovering Acquisition Entrepreneurship

Inspired by Friends and Search Fund Pioneers:
- Inspired by dentists who bought practices; discovered search funds reading HBR and Stanford studies.
- Spoke with Irv Grousbeck, the "granddaddy of search."
  - "He picked up...great guy, more than happy to help." (09:10)
Deciding on Self-Funded Search:
- Visited investors in Chicago and the Bay Area but chose to prioritize control/ownership, leading to a self-funded acquisition.

3. Making the Leap: Early Search & Family Dynamics

Leaving Corporate Security:
- Walked away from corporate job after "a challenging, crucial conversation" with his wife.
- She raised difficult but important questions about risk, PGs (personal guarantees), and stability.
  - "Isn't that exactly the opposite of everything that they taught you at business school?" (12:40, Wife, recounted by Joe)
- Ultimately, she supported him for the sake of their partnership and happiness.

4. First Acquisition: Sunny & Ash (3D Rendering Business)

Deal Process & Criteria (14:13–18:44):

Sourced through a broker after scouring 100+ SIMs; financials were primary focus.
Criteria: Business price range $1–2M; SDE $250–$400K+; open to any geography; less emphasis on industry.
Resource constraints imposed a ceiling rather than a floor on deal size.
Joe didn't know at the time that he could, in certain cases, add investors to a 7(a) deal.
Willing to move locations—flexibility was key.

About the Business (19:37):

3D rendering for real estate, products, home furnishings (Wayfair, etc.).
Founded by two cousins (Sunny Sultani and Ash Muhammad).

Deal Structure & Metrics (23:02):

Purchase price: ~$1.5M
- 20% seller note, 10% down, rest SBA 7(a).
Revenue: ~$1.3M; SDE: ~$400K
Headcount: ~8 staff (plus a dozen artists in Bangladesh).

COVID Impact & Pivot (25:20–28:44):

Pre-COVID, focused on hospitality design.
Hospitality market collapsed—revenues cratered.
Pivoted to home furnishings, producing mass renderings for companies like Wayfair.
- "Teeny tiny dollars per item…and they want thousands of items." (26:21)

Results & Growth (28:44–32:02):

Revenue peaked at ~$2M, then leveled as hospitality rebounded.
Business currently generates about $200K/year for ~5 hours/week of Joe’s time (managed by a hired operator).
- "Not huge dollars, but also a pretty great outcome." (32:13, Will Smith)

Key Lessons (35:50):

All project-based revenue—a grind, with minimal recurring contracts.
Realized the importance of recurring revenue for his next acquisition.

5. Transition to the Second Acquisition: What Changed?

Refined Search: Wanted a business in advertising/brand agency with strong recurring revenue.
Strategic Rationale:
- "It’s not theoretical anymore…you really feel it, like, oh man, I wish I didn’t have to chase so much." (35:50, Joe)
- Recurring revenues preferred (retainer relationships, ongoing B2B services).

6. Second Acquisition: Point B Communications (Brand/Ad Agency)

Search Criteria (47:00):

Size: Desired sale price $5–$7M (using max SBA loan as a ceiling).
Industry: Branding agency.
Location: Flexible, but found "perfect target" in Chicago—major ad agency hub.

Deal Structure & Rationale (55:47):

Deal at $5.5M (despite broker listing at $7.1M).
- 5% down, 5% seller note (counted as down), 90% leverage (SBA-backed).
Joe offered "what I felt was a reasonable, truly reasonable offer, good offer actually … The owners didn’t flinch." (59:40)

Metrics & Team (65:10):

Acquired August 2024.
Revenue at acquisition: ~$9M; SDE/EBITDA: ~$1M; Headcount: 27 (now 33).
On track for $12M revenue, ~$1.25M EBITDA in 2025 after key investments/staff expansion.

Business Model Insights (39:59–46:38):

Retainer-based recurring revenue, primarily B2B.
Capacity-based billing: Agencies move from project work to monthly retainers for stability.
- "Really what that is is just capacity that you’ll give to them to in-effect do projects. … The retainer model is probably an invention of service providers to get some sort of recurring revenue relationship." (39:50, Will Smith)
Cross-sell opportunities: Branding opens doors for creative work, media placements, etc.

Deal Diligence—Growth Levers (43:31):

Noticed potential to increase "share of wallet," especially within senior living clients.
- "They were dating a lot of senior living sites, but none … had decided to marry them yet." (45:36)
Has realized these cross-sell opportunities post-acquisition.

7. Post-Acquisition Structure & Owner’s Role

Management:
- Joe is NOT the day-to-day operator.
- One of the previous minority sellers (Hamish) became President—retained 2% equity.
- "I can insert myself where I’m wanted or where I feel like I can add value, but if I didn’t, it’s okay." (87:27)
- Joe focuses on strategic projects, especially building a sales engine.
Learned Lessons on Sales:
- Organic growth was always referral/inbound; direct outreach has proven difficult (relationship-driven industry).
  - "Both a strength and a weakness is that it’s so relationship driven." (78:23)
- Now exploring sales via conferences, industry events, networks, and B2B content.
Ownership Evolution:
- Sunny & Ash: "I absolutely 100% bought myself a job."
- Point B: "…can insert myself where I want, but it will run without me."

8. Reflections on ETA and Small-to-Large Progression

Joe would only recommend starting with a larger business if you have the resources and a compelling, credible story for lenders.
- "What I was lacking was the resources in the story." (88:28)
Experience from running a smaller business (even one only tangentially related) helps lenders get comfortable with a large, leveraged buy.
Will Smith observes:
- If you hit a ceiling in a small business, ETA skills allow you a “fourth option”—find a manager and go buy another business.
  - "For everybody listening … that’s probably now obvious, but it is, I don’t think it’s obvious at all to the average small business owner." (98:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Corporate Frustration:
"I finally got up the courage to ask … How soon could that happen possibly? And when the answer was like, you know, decades, maybe never … that was kind of my sign that maybe I’m not in the right spot." (06:13, Joe Solberg)
On Self-Funded Risk:
"You mean everything is getting tossed into this one bucket? … Isn't that exactly the opposite of everything that they taught you at business school?" (12:40, Joe’s wife, paraphrased)
On The Value of Starting Small:
"Without [Sunny & Ash], I'm never going to buy Point B for sure." (32:59, Joe Solberg)
On Recurring vs. Project Work:
"...it’s more, you know, for all the reasons that everybody does, it’s just stability. When you're actually running it and sitting in it, it's not theoretical anymore." (35:50, Joe Solberg)
On Broker Listing Prices:
"They listed it at 7.1. And so ... I offered what I felt like was a reasonable, truly reasonable offer … I wanted to buy a good business at a good price. And the owners didn’t flinch at all." (59:49, Joe Solberg)
On Business Independence:
"It’s not. I think that’s the sign of a great acquisition ... It's running without you." (86:13, Will Smith)
On Lender Scrutiny:
"I had to write an entire business plan of, hey, why does this make sense? Why does this acquisition make sense? Why are you okay to be the person that owns this business?... I just didn’t have the story before Sunny & Ash." (89:50, Joe Solberg)
On the Power of ETA:
"If you hit a ceiling in a business that you own … there's a fourth option ... find somebody who can run this business for me and then go look for another business to acquire." (98:15, Will Smith)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Joe’s background and early career: 04:18–06:54
Discovering search funds and ETA: 06:54–09:41
Deciding on self-funded search: 09:41–11:09
Conversation with his wife about leaving corporate: 11:45–13:47
Finding and acquiring Sunny & Ash: 14:13–19:37
Structure and financials of first acquisition: 23:02–25:00
Impact of COVID and business pivot: 25:20–28:44
Transition to hiring a manager and freeing up time: 30:32–32:13
Reflections and lessons learned from Sunny & Ash: 35:23–35:50
Refined focus for second acquisition: 35:50–37:59
Branding agency, retainer revenue, business models: 39:42–42:12
Deal structure and negotiation for Point B: 55:47–61:14
Revenue, growth, and investments at Point B: 65:10–68:32
Role as owner, president’s responsibilities, independence: 77:20–87:27
Analysis of starting small vs. large, lender’s perspective: 88:20–92:36
The "fourth option" that acquisition entrepreneurship creates: 97:06–99:00

Conclusion

For listeners considering ETA:

Buying small is a viable, even strategic, starting point.
Relationships (with lenders, sellers, team members) matter immensely at every stage.
With each acquisition, you build not only your wealth, but your capacity as an entrepreneur.

Connect with Joe:

Subscribe to more episode summaries:
acquiringminds.co

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Buying Small to Then Buy Larger ($1m SDE)

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Summary

Acquiring Minds Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points

1. Joe’s Background & Path to Acquisition Entrepreneurship

2. Discovering Acquisition Entrepreneurship

3. Making the Leap: Early Search & Family Dynamics

4. First Acquisition: Sunny & Ash (3D Rendering Business)

5. Transition to the Second Acquisition: What Changed?

6. Second Acquisition: Point B Communications (Brand/Ad Agency)

7. Post-Acquisition Structure & Owner’s Role

8. Reflections on ETA and Small-to-Large Progression

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Conclusion

Summary

Acquiring Minds Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points

1. Joe’s Background & Path to Acquisition Entrepreneurship

2. Discovering Acquisition Entrepreneurship

3. Making the Leap: Early Search & Family Dynamics

4. First Acquisition: Sunny & Ash (3D Rendering Business)

5. Transition to the Second Acquisition: What Changed?

6. Second Acquisition: Point B Communications (Brand/Ad Agency)

7. Post-Acquisition Structure & Owner’s Role

8. Reflections on ETA and Small-to-Large Progression

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Conclusion