Too Good to Be True: Year 1 in a $700k SDE Business

Summary

Acquiring Minds Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Too Good to Be True: Year 1 in a $700k SDE Business
Date: May 14, 2026
Host: Will Smith
Guest: Zach Mutnick, Owner of Jeff Masters Electric (soon to be Mutts Electric)
Theme: An action-oriented first-time acquirer’s rocky but ultimately successful journey in buying and transforming a small electrical contracting business.

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Episode Overview

This episode tells the story of Zach Mutnick, who bought Jeff Masters Electric, a residential-focused electrical contracting business in southwest Florida, for $1.65 million, based on what appeared at first to be strong returns―$700k SDE on $1.7M revenue. Driven by a bias for action and trust in his instincts, Zach eschewed the typical exhaustive analysis and stepped into business ownership with minimal prior operational experience. The result was a tumultuous but transformative first year filled with employee turnover, operational chaos, unexpectedly weak demand, two inherited lawsuits, and a demand curve far rougher than expected. However, by year's end, Zach had grown revenue, stabilized the team, and re-envisioned both the business and his leadership—all powered by a learning-by-doing mindset and an openness to change.

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Guest Background: Zach Mutnick

• Early Career and Education

  • Graduated high school with no clear path, bounced through college before joining the Navy at 23.
  • Served five years as a gas turbine electrician, gaining adaptability and leadership through multiple deployments and broad technical exposure.
  • "They say it's called a small boy. A destroyer. It's a small ship. And they say it's good because you get to learn everything…you gotta fix everything." (Zach Mutnick, 05:49)

• Transition to Entrepreneurship

  • During COVID deployments, devoured books on business acquisition and real estate.
  • Post-Navy, dabbled successfully in real estate, then worked for Lumen Technologies maintaining backup generators.
  • “I just got the bug. You know, I just wanted to. It wasn't mine, it wasn't my business…ultimately I got up to like six properties, but it wasn't mine, and started looking online.” (Zach, 08:44)
  • Inspired by acquisition entrepreneurship, he sold property to fund a business purchase.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Search and Acquisition Process

• Began the search with minimal criteria, focused on local, $1M+ revenue businesses in his areas of expertise—specifically electrical or generator-related.
• Found Jeff Masters Electric on BizBuySell. Seller felt familiar: started at Zach’s age, Coast Guard veteran, working with his wife.
• Negotiated a SBA 7(a) loan, putting down about $165k hard cash using proceeds from real estate sales.

Notable Structure Details

• Purchase price: $1.65M, based on 2023 revenue of $1.7M and claimed $700k SDE (~30% margin).
• Structure: Stock purchase―required by lender (unusual and risky; led to inheriting undisclosed lawsuits).
• Seller involvement: Seller (prior owner) retained 5% equity to keep the contractor’s license in place until Zach obtained his, then was paid out.
• Receivables: Persuaded to buy receivables (turned out to be of poor quality, with some uncollectible).

Memorable Quote:
“...if I make a decision, like, I don’t...whatever’s downhill. This, I’ll figure it out. I made the decision in my head. This is happening. So...we’re going to quit our jobs, we’re going to move over here. This is happening.” (Zach, 20:19)

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2. Hidden Dangers and Rough Transition

• Red Flags Missed: Seller uncooperative with diligence, limited records, old-school bookkeeping (carbon copy receipts and old QuickBooks).
• Post-close Surprises:
  • Inherited Lawsuits: “Why I’m involved in two lawsuits right now I didn't know of, and if I had a new entity, I wouldn’t.” (Zach, 26:47)
  • Receivables’ Quality: Paid for receivables he never collected; weak A/R management from the seller.
• Cultural & Team Upheaval:
  • Seller had been a micromanager; after transition, Zach offered autonomy, but legacy team abused freedom. “They abused it…they wanted to push and see how far they can get...Eight people quit or were fired from the original ten.” (Zach, 34:36)
  • Ultimately, only two employees remained from the original team; a new, handpicked team improved fit and culture.

Notable Segment:

• [32:15-36:53] Team transition, trust breakdown, and realignment.

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3. Operations, Chaos, and Self-Discovery

• Learning Curve:
  • No transition help: “I didn’t learn anything...I wish it was like a three-hour transition. I didn’t learn anything.” (Zach, 53:25)
  • Recognized he’s a leader but not a natural manager: “...those are the things you figure out what breaks, right, and then you fix it.” (Zach, 50:35)
• Outsourcing Weaknesses:
  • Quickly began to outsource admin, bookkeeping, and scheduling to focus on strengths. “Now I’m at the point where I outsource everything. I am all in on the things I’m good at because I know those can produce fruitful things.” (Zach, 51:16)
• Key operational improvements:
  • Increased transparency, provided raises and commissions (unlike previous owner, who “told them they would pay commission, but he didn’t”).
  • Instituted systems for marketing, lead tracking, and adopted CRM software.

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4. Demand Struggles and Marketing Experiments

• Initially Weak Demand:

  • Despite legacy, phone stopped ringing post-acquisition.
  • “Day one, it was quiet. Phones were not ringing. Nothing was happening. My guys are going home early. And it was...like that for months.” (Zach, 56:00)

• Marketing Initiatives:

  • “I spent a lot of money on marketing...Google Ads, meta ads, YouTube, flyers, in person, just driving around, talking to people, networking, different groups, everything.” (Zach, 57:13)
  • Results were slow; realized inbound demand often takes months to materialize (“It just takes time, and that happens all the time...On average, 3% of people are ready to buy?” [60:35])

• Memorable Fail:

  • Fourth of July BBQ community outreach—“We got 100 chairs...literally one person showed up...It was so awkward...I start tiktoking around that time...I got like, hundreds of thousands of views...” (Zach, [57:24–59:37])

• Turnaround:

  • Persistent hustling, price increases, and gradual building of inbound demand led to revenue upturn and qualified leads from legacy sources (“panel stickers”) and Google.

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5. Rebranding and Vision

• New Brand:
  • Transitioning from Jeff Masters Electric to “Mutts Electric” to create his own identity.
  • Purposeful 1950s/60s vintage vibe to connect with local demographic and stand out.
  • “Highly controversial thing to do...But I want my own business and it feels like it’s not fully mine because that’s not my name.” (Zach, 67:49)
• Brand Assets:
  • Kept phone number for continuity, designed striking new logo, and wrapped the new van as mobile billboard.
  • Rebranding is phased given the legacy in the market (stickers on thousands of panels!).

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6. The Learning Mindset & Leadership Philosophy

• Action Bias:
  • “I’m a shoot first, aim later kind of guy. That’s my DNA.” (14:24)
  • Strong willingness to try, fail, and change rapidly: “I’m an actor. Like, I do things, man. I’m sick of thinking. I’ve been doing that my whole life.” (76:49)
• Networking & Support:
  • Only later did he seek out peer connections and a business coach. “I would advise to find people that are doing what you’re doing or have done what you’ve done and talk to them...Find people earlier than you think you need them.” (54:16)
• Culture and Team:
  • Passionate about building a workplace he’d want to be part of, investing in people, and prioritizing enjoyable work and cultural fit over legacy.
  • “My goal is to have a company picnic...I want that culture.” (82:41)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic / Moment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 05:31 | Zach’s background – Navy to business | | 10:11 | Initial approach to search and first broker contact | | 14:18 | Specific search criteria and rationale | | 18:25 | First meetings with seller and red flags begin | | 20:19 | Decision to “just go for it” despite discomfort | | 32:15 | How the transition unfolded with the legacy team | | 34:36 | Mass employee turnover and culture shock | | 41:00 | Discovering hidden weaknesses in the financials | | 46:01 | Team stability & owner’s stress test (honeymoon) | | 50:35 | Self-discovery: leadership strengths and limits | | 57:09 | Marketing blitz and “crickets” | | 57:24 | The infamous community BBQ fail | | 63:22 | Seller disengagement and difficult transition | | 66:06 | First-year results: revenue rebound, team stability | | 67:49 | The rebranding decision and rollout | | 75:09 | On operating from instinct versus analysis | | 82:41 | The joy and reward of owning the business |

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Notable Quotes

• “If I make a decision, like, I don’t...whatever’s downhill. This, I’ll figure it out.” – Zach Mutnick (20:19)
• “He was a micromanager...when I came in, I said, no, dude, I’m not doing that. I’m not gonna want to spend my life like that. So you guys need to be capable of being independent.” – Zach (33:01)
• “It didn’t. It’s funny because last month I got a call from this RV park that I. I passed out flyers to six months ago, and we’re doing work for them.” – Zach (60:35)
• “I am all in on the things I’m good at because I know those can produce fruitful things...It would cost so much more in my time, my...lifetime to do the books or...scheduling.” – Zach (51:16)
• “You’re not going to be ready ever. Just do it...it’s probably the most rewarding thing you can ever do.” – Zach (82:41)

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Key Takeaways for Searchers & Acquisition Entrepreneurs

• Instinct and action matter—but come with real risks. Zach’s bias for action propelled him forward but landed him in several avoidable messes (lawsuits, employee churn, weak initial cash flow). His lack of rigorous diligence almost doomed him.
• Seller behavior and recordkeeping are crucial due diligence signals. Overly private, slow, or disorganized sellers often signal hidden risks.
• Employee culture shock is real. Buy a business, inherit a team, and be prepared to lead through rough realignment.
• Demand can lag, even in seemingly robust local businesses. Don’t take “phone rings itself” for granted—effective marketing and persistent hustle are needed post-transition.
• Be ready to delegate and play to your strengths. Outsourcing weaknesses and building support systems are essential as the business grows.
• Rebrand thoughtfully. Brand equity may live more in phone numbers, word of mouth, and service history than in the business name.

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Episode Flow in Brief

1. Zach’s background – Navy/generator experience and early hustle [05:31]
2. Loose search turns up a “unicorn” but red flags abound [14:18]
3. Seller’s culture: micromanagement, inadequate records, adversarial transition [18:25, 32:15]
4. Immediate employee turnover and rocky operational handoff [34:36]
5. Discovering operational and financial surprises (lawsuits, fragile receivables, weak demand) [41:00, 56:00]
6. Leaning into marketing, outsourcing, and new culture [57:09, 50:35]
7. Rebuilding the team and business philosophy [66:06, 67:49]
8. Looking ahead: Growth, new divisions, and continued learning [77:12]

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Closing Words

This episode stands out for its raw depiction of acquisition challenges and the emotional rollercoaster of the first year of ownership. Zach Mutnick exemplifies the “ready, fire, aim” entrepreneur—sometimes to his own detriment, but ultimately illustrating that persistent action, self-awareness, and adaptability can overcome even daunting first-year setbacks. For aspiring acquirers, the episode is both a cautionary tale and an inspiration for those inclined to leap before they look.

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For further exploration and resources, visit acquiringminds.co

Transcript

[Will Smith]

The approach of today's guest has a different flavor than you're used to hearing on Acquiring minds. You could say that Zach Mutnick does not analyze things to death. He prefers action to analysis. And when he does decide on a course of action, he moves with conviction. So it was with the business that he decided to acquire an electrical contracting business in southwest Florida. There were definitely a few flags as Zach negotiated with the seller and tried to learn about the business. But at some point, his intuition told him that this opportunity was the one to seize. I made the decision in my head. This is happening. So we're going to move. We're going to quit our jobs. This is happening now. You can achieve a lot with that attitude, that momentum, but it doesn't come free. Once Zach bought the business, the numbers

[Daniel Duran]

didn't quite add up.

[Will Smith]

Turnover was Constant. Of the 10 original employees, one year later, just two remain. There were two ongoing lawsuits. And yes, it was a stock sale. The quality of the receivables was questionable. The demand for their services was weak. So this was a rocky transition. But a year in revenue is up, the team has stabilized, and Zach refers to the acquisition as the best decision he ever made. Here he is, Zach Mutnick, owner of Jeff Masters Electric, soon to be Mutts Electric. Most searchers know that a Q of

[Daniel Duran]

E can kill a deal.

[Will Smith]

But in many cases, a deal should have died long before the searcher spent thousands on due diligence. The signs were there. They just didn't know what to look for. Well, today, Thursday, Andrew Hippert and Daniel Duran from Acquisition Lab Capital are hosting a webinar to teach you the early soft signals that experienced acquirers catch before ever spending a dime on due diligence. Things like dubious seller motivation, recent growth in the years leading up to a sale, excessive add backs. These aren't accounting problems, they're judgment calls. And the pattern recognition to make them well is what separates searchers who protect

[Daniel Duran]

their time in capital from those who

[Will Smith]

learn the hard way. Andrew and Daniel have reviewed hundreds of SMB deals and are going to share their hard won judgment with you. That webinar is today, Thursday, May 14, noon Eastern. Link to register is right at the top of this episode's show notes or on the Acquiring Minds homepage acquiringminds Co. Also a heads up. A lot of you have asked over the years whether there's a way to search the Acquiring Minds back catalog by industry or acquisition model or geography. Well, there hasn't been. But soon, and finally there will be. We're about to launch a searchable, filterable archive of every Acquiring Minds episode. Watch out for it next week.

[Daniel Duran]

We hope it will be a very

[Will Smith]

valuable resource to get your arms around over 400 case studies of entrepreneurs buying businesses. We're calling it the ETA database. Keep your eyes peeled. Welcome to Acquiring Minds, a podcast about buying businesses. My name is Will Smith. Acquiring an existing business is an awesome opportunity for many entrepreneurs and on this podcast I talk to the people who do it. You know Enzo Technologies as one of the leading IT managed service providers serving the search community. Led by Nick Akers, an Acquiring Minds guest who bought the 35 year old business. The team at Enzo regularly works with searchers and their acquisitions and one feature of acquired businesses that Enzo is seeing over and over is the need to implement cybersecurity promptly during the transition. So many acquired small businesses either have glaring vulnerabilities, lack security best practices, or both. That step one to de risk the deal you just closed should be addressing these issues. INSO is your full service IT MSP for post close stability. They assess your target, surface the biggest risks in plain English and give you a day one through 30 plan to cut exposure, prevent downtime and even find cost takeouts like bloated telecom bills. Check out inzotechnologies.com I N Z O or email Nick directly at nicknzotechnologies.com

[Daniel Duran]

Zach Mutnick welcome to Acquiring Minds Nick.

[Zach Mutnick]

Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

[Daniel Duran]

Zach, you bought an electrical contractor in South Florida. Things are looking good now, but it has been a ride. Let's get into it. Please start us off with a little background on you, Zach.

[Zach Mutnick]

Sure. Thanks. Will listen to this for years. Happy to be here by the way. Thank you.

[Daniel Duran]

Awesome.

[Zach Mutnick]

It's exciting. Let's just start. I don't know, 18, right? So I graduated high school. It's. It's interesting to see where everybody starts because you can go anywhere with it. Um, and I went to college cause that's what you do, that's what everybody did. I had no idea what I wanted to do so I went in business management cause I knew eventually I want to own my own business. Didn't work out. Not very good at college. Went back forth, right. Did that for several years. Did a bunch of dumb stuff as a kid until I was about 23, started getting my life together, joined the Navy and it took a while. So 25, I went to boot camp and I was stationed in Norfolk, Virginia for five years. I was a gas turbine electrician, which is more or less where it started. In terms of my qualifications. And so, yeah, I was on a ship all day, every day, and we went out to sea consistently all the time. So you have to learn. They say it's called a small boy. A destroyer. It's a small ship. And they say it's good because you get to learn everything. You get to learn a lot because there's nobody there to fix stuff, and it's all you. You got to fix everything. So I did learn a lot. And we did two deployments. We did a deployment in the Middle east, which was the Freedom of Trade operation. Basically, what you're hearing right now, it was the Straits of Hormuz, Gibraltar, all that good stuff. Yeah, everything checks out. Everything's accurate with that over. Sorry. That was during COVID So we pulled into Greece in late 2019, and then Covid hit. So we got one day out in Greece, one night, and then we were quarantined to the ship, and then we left. And we never pulled in anywhere until the deployment was done. So about nine months. And we had the record for most consecutive days out at sea for any destroyer, which is, like, the worst record to have. Nobody wants that. But a lot of people were playing video games, watching movies, just trying to pass the time, right? Because the days just blur. There's a period where I didn't see light, sunlight for three weeks. Just happens. So I had my. My family send me books, and I read a lot of books. There's no Internet, so I probably read 30 or 40 books, all on buying businesses, finance, real estate. And real estate caught my interest because it seemed feasible. Like, it seemed something I could actually do right now. And so I got back and I bought a couple properties with a buddy. We bought three properties in eight months and then kind of stopped because I was getting out. I wanted to save a little bit of money, so I got out and I did this internship the last few months of my contract. It's called the Skillbridge program. So I worked at a commercial real estate firm. It was a nice building downtown, very corporate, nice people.

[Daniel Duran]

Where?

[Zach Mutnick]

Downtown Miami.

[Daniel Duran]

Ah, you're okay. You're in Miami now. Okay.

[Zach Mutnick]

Good job. I loved real estate, so I said, this is great. I want to get into commercial real estate. But ultimately, it wasn't for me. You know, corporate, not really big on it. I think. I think you can get it. But after that, I delve in back. Back into what I knew. So I. I knew I knew stuff, right? So I was like, what can I do? Generators. I know a lot about generators. So I Got a job working for Lumen technologies, which is CenturyLink, essentially. And I did the backup diesel generators for their, their sites. So telecommunication, Internet, phone. When their power goes out, that's my job. Battery, backup generators, all that good stuff. Amazing gig. I love the people I worked with. Seriously, everybody was great. I, I made good money and nobody bugged me. I had my own hours, I had my own truck, and I just went around the state fixing stuff. It was great, but I just got the bug. You know, I just wanted to. It wasn't mine, it wasn't my business. I had a lot of time in my hands. I was doing real estate and stuff, and ultimately I got up to like six properties, but it wasn't mine, and started looking online and I went on Biz by Sell. I don't know what to do. It was my first time, so I basically looked like, like anybody would for a home. Zillow, right Dot com. So Biz by Sell, Crexy, all that good stuff. And I, I, I messaged a lot of brokers. No have no idea what I'm doing, so.

[Daniel Duran]

But you had read a couple books about it.

[Zach Mutnick]

I have read a couple books about it. And I listened to your podcast. I listened to all these podcasts, YouTubes, and so theoretically, sure, but that process was not anything that I could have dreamt of, the whole process. So, yeah, step one was a little bit obvious to contact brokers. And the first step was, hey, you know, do you have financing? Let me see, money. So then I sold two properties, and that was, that was our, our financing for the business. So I did, I had financing. I can prove it. And the next step was SBA loan. I got an SBA 7A loan. The.

[Daniel Duran]

Zach, how much when you sold the property? So how liquid were you at that point? How much cash on your balance sheet?

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah, it was a little bit over six figures from that sale. And I had other assets, I had real estate, I had investments and stuff. So that all added to. Was interesting going through that SBA process because it didn't seem like I needed any, anything. Yeah, I needed the down payment. But ultimately what, what I got from it was that they will, they will take my assets as collateral if I have them, but if I don't have them, they won't, but they would still get the loan. That's kind of the gist, you know.

[Daniel Duran]

Well, and this is why for, you know, a personal guarantee is, has different weight for different people, but it's the same personal guarantee. So if you get a personal guarantee as a 25 year old with no assets. It's a good time to get a personal guarantee, because if, if they come after you, there's nothing to. There's nothing to take. The 45 year old, same personal guarantee, but has a lot of assets behind it, stuff that can be vulnerable to being taken. So, um, it's why, you know, people with families and mortgages are that much less inclined to, to take a personal guarantee. So you're right about that. But just so you had about a hundred ish, a little over a hundred thousand dollars that you could put toward the hard cost of getting the deal done and the 10% equity.

[Zach Mutnick]

Sure. So, yes. And I wanted to do it sooner rather than later. As you know, I was the 33 at the time, or 32. And I knew that if I did wait and I had more assets and I had more responsibility, it'd be a lot harder to do it. I thought, this is my, this is my thought process, going through it. I say, what's the difference between. I'm going to own a business, I'm going to. All right, I don't know when. So what's the difference between me owning one now and me owning one, let's say, in 17 years, when I'm 50 years old? I went through it and ultimately I decided, I figured out there was just age, would just be older. I would have no more experience, I would have no more business experience. I'd be listening to more podcasts, watching more YouTube videos. But it's still all theoretical. I would have nothing different, nothing better. So why not do it now? That was my theory.

[Daniel Duran]

So you get on biz, Bicell, you are living in Miami at this point?

[Zach Mutnick]

Yes, I was in Miami. I was in Broward County.

[Daniel Duran]

Okay. And you go on Biz by Sell and you start looking for businesses in there with the idea that you're just kind of learning, but maybe actually might jump on something.

[Zach Mutnick]

Right.

[Daniel Duran]

And so what do you do? You find the business that we're here to talk about on Biz by Sell.

[Zach Mutnick]

I did. I found this business. My criteria was loose. I didn't have a hard radius. It was kind of local. Ish. Right. I didn't want to go to Georgia, but I went across the state, you know, so it wasn't. It wasn't South Florida South. Correct. I was in South Florida. I'm. I'm now on the west coast, about two, two and a half hours away. And I. Yeah, that was my criteria. I wanted a business that was over a million dollars. That's the that's the information that I gathered, the data that I gathered in terms of risk. Right. And I also didn't. The whole reason I thought to buy the business was to start at level three instead of ground zero. So. So why would I. Why would I want to go low when I could just. I could do that in a year or two. Right. I might as well skip a few years. So that was my theory. And so it was kind of right in the ballpark of what I wanted. I was thinking between one and two, maybe two and a half, something like that. So ultimately the purchase price is 1.651.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah, but. But were you looking for something that, that took advantage of your skills or were you open to all kinds of different businesses?

[Zach Mutnick]

I was looking for an electrical business, specifically, either an electrical business or a generator business. And the idea was to incorporate the other one, whichever one I chose. So now I'm incorporating generators because that's my background. I knew I was going to get my electrical contractor's license. Also theoretical. I have no idea. I've never worked in an electrical company, either residential or commercial. And I just looked up the requirements and based on black and white, I met the requirements. So I just jumped in and I figured that if. If I couldn't get my license, I'd find somebody to qualify. I'm in the. I'm in the camp of shoot first, aim later. That's kind of my day. And it's. So far it's worked out.

[Daniel Duran]

So you do see an electrical business in South Florida that's above the revenue number that you want it or the, the. When you said a million bucks. Over a million in revenue or over a million in purchase price revenue? In revenue, yes.

[Zach Mutnick]

And I wanted to make sure that I'm going to cover the debt service. Obviously a little bit more would be nice, you know.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah, great. So. So. So you see this on Biz by sell. Tell us more about this business.

[Zach Mutnick]

Sure. So I saw it. It was for sale, 1.7. I think it was 1.5 for sale. And it was five vans. It was about 10 employees, five lead electricians, an admin. And the owner was doing the bulk of the managing. I. Not all of it. He was actually doing all of it. Him and his wife were working here and it seemed perfect because he started the business at the age that I was buying it and he's working with his wife and he was in the Coast Guard. I was in the Navy. It was just so perfect. And I, I thought, this is gonna go swimmingly. So it Was residential primarily, mostly service work. I would say 70% service work, 30% new construction, the majority being residential. They've, they don't do any new construction, commercial, they don't do any generators, no industrial, nothing like that. It was what he, what the seller told me is I like to pick up pennies rather than dollars.

[Daniel Duran]

I hated that.

[Zach Mutnick]

I don't know why you want to do that, but that was.

[Daniel Duran]

Not even sure what he means by that.

[Zach Mutnick]

It means he wants a bunch of, he wants a bunch of small jobs. He wants a lot of jobs between 1 and $10,000. And he would be the one to go estimate it. And he'd come back every day and he'd do it in the afternoon. And that, that was his life. He lived a good life. He had a good income and he had no debt. That was, he like.

[Daniel Duran]

So he, he, this was a lifestyle business and he was kind of happy to keep the job small. He wasn't trying to get bigger. Basically he'd found his, he found his sweet spot.

[Zach Mutnick]

That's what it seemed like. He owned it since 1987, so it was essentially 40 years. And it seemed like he had a larger business. At one point it grew up to 30 employees and then now we're down to 10. He didn't really give me specifics, but it didn't seem like it was, it was great. Didn't seem like he liked it or it worked out or whatever the case was. So he, he found his sweet spot. Yeah, about, about 10 employees.

[Will Smith]

The team at Aspen HR recently published a short white paper targeted at searchers Entitled A New CEO's Guide to Human Resources. It lays out the key items you should be thinking about as you transition into CEO and owner of the business you bought. The link to download that is in the show notes Aspen HR is a professional employer organization or peo, which provides HR compliance, flawless payroll, robust HR technology and Fortune 500 caliber benefits, all for a fraction of the cost compared to using multiple vendors. Reach out to Aspen HR for your complimentary HR diligence checklist and benchmarking analysis. Go to aspenhr.com or contact Jenny Thier directly at jennyspinahr.com

[Daniel Duran]

and so you meet him at some point?

[Zach Mutnick]

I did. I met him twice through the process and I, you know, drove over and went to, went to the office right here in my office to talk to him and both times it was okay. You know, it didn't go great, but it also didn't go terrible. And I figured, doesn't matter, I'm buying the Business. Right. I don't care. As long as everything.

[Daniel Duran]

What did. What didn't go great about it.

[Zach Mutnick]

Just the back and forth. I mean, it. We didn't really click very much, right? Me and the seller. And it was just a little bit off, man. It was. You can't really look in the books anymore because I actually took my dad. My dad's a cpa. He helped me through this whole process. Pretty good. You're pretty lucky, right? To have that in my back pocket. Teach me what a profit and loss statement is. Like, who know who gets that? It's awesome. And so he was there and he wanted more information because he gave us limited financial statements. He said, no, you're not getting anything else. I'm giving you whatever you have, whatever is required, but nothing more. And come to find out, everything is paper. Like carbon copy paper in boxes. A lot of them, which I don't have. I have none of them, but apparently they're there. He doesn't have any records. We have QuickBooks. I think it's QuickBooks Desktop 2014. So they don't make it anymore. It is. It's terrible. We do payroll manually. We write checks. It's. It's archaic. And we. We're going to switch to QuickBooks Online. You know, we're. We're in the process. We're in the process of creating, you know, a real business. I feel like.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah, you know, and so at this stage where he's like, not being forthcoming with a lot of information,

[Zach Mutnick]

you.

[Daniel Duran]

How do you get comfortable with it?

[Zach Mutnick]

I didn't. I never did. I just. I just wanted to do it so bad. I just wanted to do this. I've always wanted to do this. And I already made the decision in my head. If I make a decision, like, I don't. Whatever's downhill. This. I'll figure it out. I made the decision in my head. This is happening. So we're going to move. We're going to quit our jobs. We're going to move over here. This is happening. And so there was a lot of red hindsight is 20 20. I didn't know anything. I've never bought a business before. My dad was an amazing help, but he's never bought a business before. So we didn't have counseling at all. We didn't have a representative. I was using his broker for everything. The guy was nice. He was a cool dude. I liked him. I trusted him for the most part. But I don't know if. If everything was forthcoming. You never know. And going through it again I would do things completely different now, of course, but yeah, I was never totally comfortable.

[Daniel Duran]

And you didn't work with attorneys or diligence? A diligence provider.

[Zach Mutnick]

I did. I had an attorney, but midway, he, he quit his. His job. So that was turned over to somebody else. That was turned over to a senior guy, but the guy had no reference. Apparently he told him nothing about the business. So we had to start from zero again. And it was just communication was slow. It. I felt like every. Not only like my attorney, his attorney, broker, seller, every time I would call someone, send an email, it would take two weeks to get a response. It. I'm. I'm like that, like I don't care what I'm doing, I'm going to respond. Doesn't take long. But they weren't. So it took nine months. That's why. Wow.

[Daniel Duran]

So this. So from the first time you reached out to the close was nine months, even though there really wasn't a lot of moving pieces, because it's not like there were vendors who were bottlenecking this. It was mostly pretty direct. They were just very slow.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah. Yeah, everything was pretty direct. There was a little bit more customer concentration than I thought. That was initially disclosed. But there wasn't much that I saw that was a glaring red flag that said, don't do this. The tax returns looked good. You know, there. Everything looked good on paper. So I said, I don't know anything about this. This looks legit. The IRS says it's cool. Why wouldn't I? You know, so came in here blind, but the process was, was a huge, huge learning curve. Yeah.

[Daniel Duran]

What was the hardest part of the process, do you think?

[Zach Mutnick]

The ups and downs of it. And I think I'm not the only one. I think a lot of people think the same thing. It's like, I mean, it's just like business, like every day there's something great and then something terrible. It's. It's almost like awesome. This is going to go through. The entire thing's going to go through this week, and then everything is done. You're not, you not buying it, you know, and you never know. I didn't know. I didn't know what was next. So I was just doing one step at a time. And you just, you know, you knock them down whenever they come up. Yeah.

[Daniel Duran]

And so give us some, some more bullet points on the business, Zach. What, what the revenue was, what the earnings were. Sure, you've told us, you've told us employees and, and trucks and stuff, but give us more Financial numbers, sure.

[Zach Mutnick]

So I bought the business early 2025, but I didn't have many records from 2024. And we were already like, way past that. It was about to close, so I didn't really care about the tax return and all that hindsight. Right. So 2023, they did 1.7, and 2024, he did 1.3. It was a spike. It was probably, I think I got records from 2019, and Covid was like a little bit good because of COVID And then we had hurricanes, which is also another factor. It's hard to put a number on that. How much, how much is a hurricane worth in electrical? Is a ton of things break. A ton of people's poles come down, and it's a, it's constant work. We're. We're still fixing houses from two years ago. So, yeah, you know, it's good for us, sadly. But those were the spikes when the hurricanes came. And then it trickled down and then just shot up to 1.7. I don't know why. And then shot back down to 1.3. And when we closed the deal, there's nothing going on. So I, I felt like I didn't get a 1.7 business. That's what I.

[Daniel Duran]

You did not. You did not.

[Zach Mutnick]

That was the feeling.

[Daniel Duran]

Okay, and. And what do you think the earnings were? Like, how. What were margins and profitability on? You know, call it a 1.5 business as an average.

[Zach Mutnick]

Sure. So let's say it was like a 30% net profit, which is.

[Daniel Duran]

Okay.

[Zach Mutnick]

Very high. Suspiciously high. I wouldn't know that, though. So it was like $700,000 or something in EBITDA on a 1.7 revenue. And I would say good. A good chunk of that was new construction. So it was just reoccurring with the same people.

[Daniel Duran]

All right, so you thought you were getting a 700ish thousand dollars of earnings. Electrical contractor, which is, which is like, that's in the range of what people really desire. And, and you are also a guy who has. You don't have the electrical background really, but you have generator experience and you feel like you can get your electrical, your electrical contractor's license easily.

[Will Smith]

Right.

[Daniel Duran]

Did you do it before closing?

[Zach Mutnick]

I did it after closing, actually. It was a couple months after.

[Daniel Duran]

And he carried the license in the meantime. Yes, or that was the plan.

[Zach Mutnick]

Carry the license with 5% equity. So we, we structured the deal with a stock purchase. There's a stock purchase and an asset purchase. Didn't know this asset purchase. I would have loved based on what I have read, but the SBA wouldn't let us. They said we had to do a stock purchase, which I, I genuinely don't understand. There's a lot of things that were vague with the sba. They were great. The people I worked with were excellent. Seriously, everybody was phenomenal. But there was a lot of paperwork. There was a lot of due diligence. There was a lot of, like, let's check your, you know, fourth grade records. Like, stuff like that. Little, Little bit of a probe. But I expect that. And so he did. He carried it 5%. And the.

[Daniel Duran]

But, but you're saying the SBA or your lender required that it be a stock purchase rather than an asset purchase.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yes, which if I did over again, I would find a way to get the asset purchase. Why I'm involved in two lawsuits right now I didn't know of, and if I had a new entity, I wouldn't.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Zach Mutnick]

That.

[Daniel Duran]

That is the. That's the big reason. Were those lawsuit lawsuits ongoing from before you bought it or the. Oh, wow.

[Zach Mutnick]

Years.

[Daniel Duran]

Okay, wow. And so those were undisclosed to you? Of course. Okay. And so how did you, how else did you structure it? It was, it was 10% of equity.

[Zach Mutnick]

It was 5% equity. They. They tried to push for 15% down payment. I got him to a 10. I put up my cash from the real estate, and he put up, you know, put up his. His portion of it, which was 5%. He carried the business with his license until I got my license or I can find somebody else to qualify the business.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah.

[Zach Mutnick]

Now he would own 5% until that happened. And when it did happen, I got mine and I paid him out. I paid him that portion from, from our bank account or seed money, and I paid him, I think it was $83,500 each time. So that was my down payment, and that was what I paid him to relinquish his ownership. And it was a three month turnover. I got my contractor's license, like, four days before that date, which is very serendipitous. It worked out very well, and I paid him off, and it was. It was a break. And I am 100% owner now.

[Daniel Duran]

And. And so you said it was about 83. So $165,000 out of pocket.

[Zach Mutnick]

Right.

[Daniel Duran]

For you. And, and the SBA loan ended up being 90%. Did I get that right?

[Zach Mutnick]

The SBA loan. Oh, sorry. He's carrying another $83,000, which I completely forgot about until three or four weeks ago when we had an issue. But that's another story that starts in 2027. I have to pay him for three years. It's amortized over three years starting in 2027, January.

[Daniel Duran]

So that sounds like a 5% seller note that was on standby for.

[Zach Mutnick]

I guess so. I guess that was the original 5%. That's. It's terrible that I don't know this, but I'm at the point where it's like, that's over. You know, I see the contract. I see I owe him $83,000. I'm going to do that. That. The why is whatever. That's how I feel. But I think you're right. It's the. It's the regional. The seller carry note. Yes. So, okay.

[Daniel Duran]

There was also receivables and working capital that came with.

[Zach Mutnick]

I recall. Yeah. Yes. Receivables and working capital. So they pushed me to buy the receivables. They said it's going to be a clean break because, you know, you have. You have the. You can buy the receivables or you cannot and just get more working capital from the bank. Same amount of money. The. The bank, but mostly the broker pushed me to buy the receivables. And, yeah, I wouldn't have if I knew. I won't do it again. I am going to make more business purchases in the future, and I will not buy receivables. So it's.

[Daniel Duran]

Why. What happened there?

[Zach Mutnick]

Well, they. They weren't great. It took forever to get the money. I got $75,000 in working capital from the bank, and I bought $75,000 of receivables from him. Some of them I never got, some of them I never collected. There was one lady that filed bankruptcy many, many months ago, and it was still on the books, and I bought it. $2,000. I'll never see it. And if I wanted to, I'm going to battle her in court. It's not worth it.

[Daniel Duran]

Right. And so this, these $75,000 in receivables, these are all. These are all residential, you said, so consumers. These are people, not businesses.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah, we do have commercial clients, but they pay. Know we have relationships with them. They're. They're pretty good. Even if It's a net 30. Take a month, they pay. Okay.

[Daniel Duran]

Okay. Okay. And so you inherit. Remind us, how many people?

[Zach Mutnick]

10.

[Daniel Duran]

10 people. Five trucks, you said five trucks. Five trucks. Okay, so how does it go? Tell us about the transition.

[Zach Mutnick]

So business closes. Come back to the other side. I've got to pack up and move because everything's happening in one weekend, I quit my job. My fiance at the time quit her job. We packed everything up. We bought a house over here. To literally a city we've never heard of. I've never experienced.

[Daniel Duran]

What city is that?

[Zach Mutnick]

This area I live in, North Port, Florida. There is no street lights on my street. It's normal here. Oh, not to us. But it's. It's quite interesting. Interesting where there's raccoons everywhere and deer and rabbits and.

[Daniel Duran]

So it's a rural community on the west coast of Florida.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah, I mean, it's. I mean, there's. There's a lot of residential homes, but it's. It's definitely not as built up as the other side, and they're working on that.

[Daniel Duran]

Okay, Is it, like, how far from Tampa is it, for example?

[Zach Mutnick]

About an hour and a half.

[Daniel Duran]

Okay.

[Zach Mutnick]

South. Yeah.

[Daniel Duran]

Is it on the water?

[Zach Mutnick]

It is on the water. We're in. My shop is in a flood zone. Bad flood zone. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. This whole street got, like, six feet of water last hurricane.

[Daniel Duran]

So you move over there. And how does it go with the team and the. The early days of the transition?

[Zach Mutnick]

So day one, nobody knew anything. None of the employees were told anything. So I'm sitting in my office over in that chair, and he's sitting here, and all of our guys are around, and we had this, like, little, you know, meeting, this little huddle in the office, and he says, I sold the business to that guy. I'm like, what's up? Like, what's up, guys? Like, yup. And they had a relationship with this dude for many years. You know, a lot of. A lot of them didn't like that. They didn't feel respected. They felt like they should have known he was selling the business. In a way.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah.

[Zach Mutnick]

But I also see his point because it. It leaves him vulnerable to people leaving. If he's. If he's doing that and half of the people leave, half of his revenue income leaves. The deal might completely fall through. So I get both sides, and it's delicate. There were. I wanted to be in the field for three weeks. I wanted to be in the field with my guys before I did anything with any of the ownership. I felt like the relationship with these people is more important than anything. I can learn it all. I can learn all this stuff. Right. I can learn QuickBooks and whatever. Estimating. Not a big deal, but I need to get to know these people, and I did. It took. It took weeks. Some of them had a issue with the transition. You know, it was. It was Tough for them. They had a real relationship with this guy and he was micromanaging every aspect of the business. That was his style. And when I came in, I said, no, dude, I'm not doing that. I'm not gonna want to spend my life like that. So you guys need to be capable of being independent. That's the business I'm going to run. And if you can't, like, this might not be for you, you know, And a lot of them couldn't handle it. There was many instances when they would do things like pull the GPS out of their vans and go somewhere where I couldn't see and like, sit, sit somewhere for two hours. Things that they would have never gotten away with with the last guy they were pushing.

[Daniel Duran]

So wait, so he, he was, he was a micromanager. He over managed them, but it, it kept them on a tight leash. And then you actually wanted to give them more agency, more autonomy. But when you did that, they abused it.

[Zach Mutnick]

They abused it. They, they, they wanted to push and see how far they can get. You know, they didn't know me, and they want to, they want to see what, what, what kind of job they can have. Can they, can they. We call it skate in the Navy, but it's like, can they do not. Can they not work and get paid? Let's see. So they did push it. They pushed the boundaries, which is. It sucks, man, because I have, I have good intentions for all these people and you know, it's like, work with me, I'll work with you. But some people just, like, pushed it a little too much. A little too much. And, you know, ultimately we have two people from the original 10 right now, so eight people quit or left or quit or fired. And several people were hired and left. A lot of people were hired and left. So we've had a significant amount of churn in the last year. We have a pretty solid crew right now. It's, it's the culture. It's. It's selectively choosing people now as opposed to inheriting everyone. So I can choose, hey, does this guy fit with the rest of our guys? Will they get along? That's, that's big one. That's big for me. Yeah. A lot of people have experience. There's a lot of people with a lot of experience.

[Daniel Duran]

Well, actually, Zach, let me ask you about that, because as you pointed out, like, they are your, your people are. Who generates revenue for you. And so if you. Part of the fear of losing people is that, is that they walk out the door with revenue and and that it is actually hard, hard to find people, as we all know, in the trades these days. And it sounds like where you are, it's not like the most populous area, so it might be even harder. But it doesn't sound like you struggled with that and, or that it worried you.

[Zach Mutnick]

It didn't. Well, I, I was worried they were going to leave. I, I worried so much that everybody was going to walk out on day one and I had nothing and I got to figure it out and I got all this debt. And it's funny because they thought I was going to fire them. So we're both, like, shielding ourselves and, you know, we suss that out over several months. But it's reasonable on both sides. You don't know.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah, sure. And so the, but all of the turnover that happened. What, anything to any learnings from that? I mean, any learnings. Do you think it was healthy? Do you think it was what you would want? Or did some of the people leave that you wished hadn't? Or what can we take from that?

[Zach Mutnick]

After weeks, my wife and I, we, you know, we talked and we said, like, who do you think is going to be with us long term? Or who do we want? You know, who's going to fit the culture? And it wasn't, it wasn't many. It was these two people here. I felt like everyone else didn't. And they, they weren't bad. They weren't, you know, they weren't evil. They just, they just didn't fit with, with who we are. And so we selectively chose people. Yeah.

[Daniel Duran]

And then going back, Zach, to something you said earlier about starting, you know, part of the reason you buy business is so that it's a bit of

[Will Smith]

a shortcut, but if you basically are

[Daniel Duran]

here with just two of the original people, you start to wonder if, like, could you have spun that up from scratch and hire.

[Zach Mutnick]

Start to think that. Yes. What does think that? And, and, you know, it goes across my mind all the time. But I will say, I, I will say that I have, I have Hannah. She's our office manager.

[Daniel Duran]

She's awesome.

[Zach Mutnick]

She's doing our, our lead categorization right now. So I created. I'm a spreadsheet nerd. So I created a spreadsheet. And our CRM system isn't, like, fantastic. It's jobber. It's not, you know, all around. It was a little bit cheaper than the other one, so we chose it. So we're doing some things by manual, but I'm seeing where the leads are coming from. I'm looking at the conversion rate, I'm looking at how much it costs per lead, where it's coming from. And we have a lot of existing customers. The majority it was, it's, it's like 50, 50 with Google and then other trickle in, you know, Angie's list or whatever, like small. But it's, it's mainly existing customers, Google and referrals. So I did buy a business with, with, with people that want to pay me money. There's a lot of it is the panel stickers. I listened to that other podcast you had and he said the same thing and it's funny because it's so true, man. This guy that owned it put the same panel sticker. A little bit fancy creative now, but it's essentially the same panel sticker on every electrical panel that he did in 40 years. So wow. All the time I see people, customers with, with a 40 year old sticker and it looks good. Nobody opens the panel ever. So it looks, it looks, you know, preserved almost. So yeah, a lot of people call us and when people buy houses here all the time, there's intellectual issue. Who do we know? We're new here. I don't know. Well, there's a sticker on the panel and call him all the time. So yeah, you know, is it worth what I paid? Yeah, yeah, no, I don't know. I don't even think about that anymore. I just think about growth. Like how, how do we send it at this point? You know what I mean? I think I going to start other locations. I don't think I'm going to buy one because of what I know now. I think I can spin it up. You know, maybe let's, let's put a

[Daniel Duran]

pin in that chat because I want to return to it. That could be a really interesting topic. Did I ask you yet for the or before for the purchase price?

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah,

[Daniel Duran]

1.65. So. So it seemed like it was a great deal if it was about 700 in earnings, 1 point for 1.65. So that was. That's less than two and a half.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah, I guess, right. It's 2.3 and it was fantastic numbers. I actually saw that deal several months ago, even if not a year ago, prior to inquiring about it. And when I was working and looking to buy a business and I was sending inquiries, I told myself I found this business, I found this one. I was like, oh my God, it's still for sale. I told myself if the broker calls me, which they never do, if he calls Me, I'm gonna buy it the next day. I'm doing an oil change on this diesel engine, and he calls me. He's like, I think he'd be a great fit. And it was just, you know, it worked out from there, but, yeah, it looked like a fantastic deal. I was like, whoa, 30%. 30%?

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah.

[Zach Mutnick]

It's gotta be. You know, it's just the. Just the industry. It's just the industry. And then little have I learned, you know, I. I've seen many profit and losses now, and it's not the same.

[Daniel Duran]

What do you mean? What. What else have you discovered?

[Zach Mutnick]

I've discovered that our labor cost is a little higher than his. Because I gave everybody raises. He was not. I felt like paying them what they deserved. Granted, this area is more rural. You know, a lot of people come from the north, Pennsylvania and New York specifically, and they were used to getting paid a lot more, but they take a huge hit. And I felt like it wasn't fair. So everybody slowly got a raise When. When I thought it was fit. And so our labor costs rose. We. We added some commission stuff. Our. Our labor costs rose. Cause he never did any of that. He told them they would pay them commission, but he didn't. So they wouldn't. They didn't trust me for a long time. Uh, I had to prove myself over time that I would actually do the things that say I'm going to do.

[Daniel Duran]

You know, Zach, given things like that that you just said and that he was a micromanager and that you came in encouraging people to have, like, more autonomy, I would have thought that people would be really receptive to a new owner and excited about a new owner. It doesn't sound like. Sounds like it might not have been the best culture in the world under the previous regiment.

[Zach Mutnick]

And I think about that all the time. Not as much anymore, because it's not my day to day, but I used to. I mean, at this point, I've. My. My thesis is that Stockholm syndrome, they're just so used to it, and they're used to being. That's. That's the way it is, right? That's how it's done. And so they just became. It's normalized. And then when. When I came in and I, you know, gave them access to things they've never had access to, they felt like it was. They felt like that's not real. You know, it's done like this. It's been done like this for decades. You're gonna tell me this guy's coming in Changing everything. And that's gonna work. You know, a lot of blue collar people like their job. They want to do their job and they want to do it well. They want to get paid well and they want to go home. And I respect that. And so when you switch it up, even if it's for the better, you give up raises. Sometimes it doesn't work.

[Daniel Duran]

And then. So finding new people was not, was not a problem there. There were electricians to be had in quantity, yes.

[Zach Mutnick]

In quality, no. We've had, we've had some, some good, some bad. We started advertising like they used to on Craigslist, which is absolutely insane to me. Right. But we did it and we would get people and the quality was exactly what you think, you know, Craigslist ad. But then we started posting on. Indeed. And even still, like there's just not that many people here in general. It's a town of right. 2. It's a county of 220,000 over where I'm from. It's, it's 10x that. So there's just not a big pool. And so we would get people, but we kind of had to poach a few of them. We got some good ones from. Either they were working for someone else or they were, they were just working for themselves, freelancing. A lot of electricians do that and they're like, yeah, give them an opportunity. Hey, want to come work for us? Culture, future, you know, stuff like that. And, and it worked. That's, that's, that's, it's sad. But it worked. It's what it is.

[Will Smith]

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[Daniel Duran]

to know August and the team at

[Will Smith]

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[Daniel Duran]

And so you went from 10 down to 2 and now you're back up to 10.

[Zach Mutnick]

We didn't go from 10. I mean the original cast. Yeah. We went from 10 to 2, but we, we replaced people as we had people leave. So it was almost like a one for one. There was at some point where we had.

[Daniel Duran]

Right.

[Zach Mutnick]

Maybe six, something like that, maybe five. But yes, it, it does keep up. Now we're about eight or nine, something like that. It's flux.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah, sure. And, and you feel like you're more stable now or do you feel like this churn, this turnover is, is, is going to be a feature of the business kind of forever? It's just the nature of the industry.

[Zach Mutnick]

No, no, I knew that it was like going to be a snake shedding its skin. I, I knew it. I was telling my wife that, you know, it's, it was tough, it was tough days. And so I would have a mantra, you know, like, it's not forever. This, this, this issue specifically. And these issues are going to subside once, you know, you chop it every day a little bit, bite the elephant, whatever. And it did, it did, it worked out. And right now, fantastic. I mean we just got back from Japan from our honeymoon. For nine days we went. I got like two calls.

[Daniel Duran]

Wow.

[Zach Mutnick]

Things, things were, things were good. They were overloaded with work. My main, you know, my head guys were a little flustered. So there's things to fix, but it was kind of like the stress test. Let's see what breaks and.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah.

[Zach Mutnick]

And the big things didn't. So we have a really good solid crew right now.

[Daniel Duran]

And Zach, let's hear about your own knowledge. So you come from. Do working on generators. So you understand generators and sort of energy. But you weren't an electrician, but you did get your electric electrician, your electrical contractor's license. So anyway, talk, talk to us about is, Is taking over a business like this something that only you could do or how much of your existing pre. Existing knowledge has been helpful here? Not even necessary.

[Zach Mutnick]

Completely. 100. I wouldn't.

[Daniel Duran]

Okay, so you're really leaning, you're leaning all on all that time in the Navy, on all of the century.

[Zach Mutnick]

I mean, I'm into this stuff. I build things on the side. I've done it for, you know, probably since I was a kid. I just loved how things work and the older I got, the more I did. Now I do like circuitry for fun at home. Right. But it was the, the Navy was the industrial side of it that was the main. Like, here's what you can do to make money. Right? You could do all these things for fun. You can make lamps and speakers and all this stuff. But here's how you make real money. You work at a power plant. Essentially I ran. Not a run. I worked at a power plant.

[Daniel Duran]

And what are you on the, on the boat, you mean?

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah, on the ship.

[Daniel Duran]

Say, say more. What, what does that mean?

[Zach Mutnick]

I was a gas turbine electrician, so I was a mechanic and electrician for yes, gas turbines. We had two forms. One was purely propulsion, one was for generators and there was three generators, four propulsion. We had probably crew of 30 in our division. So we would all work on it. But it was so much equipment. There's so much auxiliary equipment to move a 500 foot ship. There's. There's so much that goes on that you don't hear about on a cruise ship, sipping your margarita. It's on every ship. They all have the same issues. They all have pumps, motors, motor controllers. They all have lube, oil leaks and fuel to transfer and so much to do every day. I know that a certain interval, I was working over a hundred hours a week for probably like three months straight. So I knew the military wasn't a long term thing for me. I knew that going in, but. But it was, it was a lot of work. It was a lot of work. But I learned so much and I became a leader in the Navy. I was never in charge of anything before that. And they do that. That's how it's a systematic thing. That's what's amazing about the military. They build leaders. If you want to be right, if you want. They don't. Not everybody becomes something basically right. So if you, if you want to do that, you can. And I did. And it was just a really fulfilling thing to have, you know, my guys under me and work with them every day. Be in the field, in the field in the ship with them and work and show them the ropes. I love that. I love being a leader. But ultimately I learned there and definitely hear that I'm not a good manager. I am a good leader. I'm a visionary. But the day to day, and which is probably a reason some of these guys left. Maybe it felt a little chaotic, to be honest. I was learning and I'm not, I'm not a great organizer. I got, allegedly, I got adhd. I don't know, never diagnosed, but everybody tells me that. So I got, I don't know, 17 notepads on my freaking desk right now. I have a lot going on. It's just chaotic. It is chaotic, right? And how you do one thing is how you do everything. My house is chaotic too. So I don't, I get it, you know, I get that part of it, but those are the things you figure out what breaks, right, and then you fix it. And that's what we're doing. And that's, that's one thing that I learned in the Navy, that, that not a great manager. I am a good leader. I'm a good teacher.

[Daniel Duran]

And how, And Zach, how do you work around that? Because when we think of. We normies, civilians, when we think military, we think order above all, order, authority, that there are systems and, and the opposite of chaos. So you, you figured out a way to make your chaotic self work in a very ordered system. And now here you're in your own business that you've acquired and you're creating the system from above. And you probably recognize that order is valuable, that the chaos works for you, but it not. Might not work for everybody. So how do you. How are you going to deal with this or. Or manage around your own. Your own chaos?

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah. For a long time I battled with, do I work on my weaknesses or do I not? Basically, yeah. Now I'm at the point where I outsource everything. I am all in on the things I'm good at because I know those can produce fruitful things. Right. And to me, I am so inefficient at doing those other tasks. It would, it would cost so much more in my time, my. My lifetime to do the books or to do, you know, scheduling, stuff like that. So that's all outsourced. I do as little as I can, but it's. It. You're the owner. It's. There's so much, there's so much to do, but it's learning systems that I'm still working on, but moving and growing. It is just. It's the who, not how. I'm not doing that.

[Daniel Duran]

And so you're. You're often thinking about who to put in this seat all the time to deal with this thing that I'm delegating all the time.

[Zach Mutnick]

I got to figure out who's going where, you know, and that's something that I'm still working on with this one location. It's fairly straightforward. Essentially. I want, when we grow, I want to almost triple this business. Okay, so we have, we have five bands still. I want to have 15, essentially about 5 million in revenue is my goal. And I want to have almost divisions. So we'll have a generator division, residential, commercial, and generators. So everybody will kind of stay in their own lane. Everybody has the shop and, you know, get together materials, all that good stuff. But There will be a guy in charge of this one and this division and this division and then there'll be a gm. That's my thesis. Right own. We'll only know in practice. Right now I got essentially one guy below me. He's like my number two. He does all of the field work. Like I told the guys, don't call me. I was getting like 40 calls a day. I. And doing, you know, I couldn't do everything. I was, I was going crazy before I delegated anything. I had so much to do and it was so overwhelming and I, I just, I hated, I hated it. So I was like, you know what? I have, I have to delegate. There's no alternative. Like, this is not going to work if I don't. So I did.

[Daniel Duran]

So there was a stretch there where you hated the business that you bought or hated the.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah, I mean those first three months of the transition was three months with the seller. Awful, awful time in my life. Awful. And it was not very good for a while because I was still figuring stuff out. Now I'm by myself, I gotta do everything. He didn't teach me anything, so I, that's why I wish it was like a three hour transition. I didn't learn anything. So I did. Day one was in three months. And so for the next three months to six months was a learning curve. And it was a lot of, a lot of stressful days, you know, and how do I do this? Like, who do I call? Every day is something new that I've never encountered and I got to figure it out. But that's like, that's what I've done for years. I figured out.

[Daniel Duran]

And for people, for people who might find themselves in a similar situation. Was there anything you learned from just getting through that period or is it just kind of like, keep going.

[Zach Mutnick]

I would advise to find people that are doing what you're doing or have done what you've done and talk to them. I'm doing that now. I'm starting to do that now. I'm on social media now. I like post on TikTok and people sometimes tell me, hey, I'm a contractor in your area. And this guy hit me up this week. He's like, you want to go golfing? I said, no, but I'll go to the driving range. So I'm going to go buy a driver today. So we're going to do that. And it, you know, it's, it's cool. Find people that are like you. And it's. I feel like it's tough Because I. I'm a very, like, unique person. I feel like I'm very, like, I'm super motivated. A lot of people, like, don't want to do as much as I do, be, like, as risky as I am. And I get it. I 100% understand the. I want to live a good, stable life. I totally get it. And my wife is more on that line, too. So it's. It's. It's. You know, who can you talk to that understands? And I'm. I have now I hired a business coach. I'm talking to a mentor through score, the SBA program, which is fantastic, by the way. It's free, and it's. It's helpful. Not that, you know, they're running my business, but it's nice to say, hey, I got an idea. You know, I got this marketing idea. Let me bounce it off you. What do you think? And they're like, I did it. Don't do it. Like, okay, you just save me three grand, you know, so find people earlier than you think you need them.

[Daniel Duran]

Great. Zach. And on the finances of the business, we've heard you say a couple times that it was too good to be true or that. That the purchase price for the earnings, the reported earnings or the claimed earnings. Too good to be true.

[Zach Mutnick]

Right.

[Daniel Duran]

So what did you. What did you find about the actual earnings and revenue of this business?

[Zach Mutnick]

When you got in there day one, it was quiet. Phones were not ringing. Nothing was happening. My guys are going home early. And it was. It was like that for months, several months. I would, you know, just sit, waiting. What do I do? This guy never advertised once in 40 years. He was a part of the Chamber of Commerce. You know, he sometimes network, but it was all word of mouth. I'm. You know, I got 150 grand in the bank, from the bank, and these, like, receivables. Not. Okay, so maybe not 150. Close, right? So I was like, what do I do with it? How do I. How do I get work? And that was a big stressor of mine, you know, having. Having this huge debt service. I have over a hundred thousand dollars in overhead a month, and that's new to me, you know? And I got all these guys that need a paycheck. You know, I got these. So who. Who do I call? How do I get people to call me? So I spent a lot of money on marketing. Like. Like I said, if I had these people, maybe I would have bounced ideas off them. But I spent. I've done everything under the sun that you could Think of. And I've learned what works and what doesn't. A lot of it doesn't. I. I wasted a lot of money. So.

[Daniel Duran]

And. And. And you're talking about putting stuff. Put Google Ads and social media.

[Zach Mutnick]

Google Ads, meta ads, YouTube flyers, in person. You know, just driving around, talking to people, networking, different groups, everything.

[Daniel Duran]

Community barbecues.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yes, community barbecues. Yeah, tell us that story. So we had a fourth of July barbecue. This was four months into owning the business. So we knew nobody. Like, we didn't. Definitely not outside of the business, because we had no time. We didn't do anything with anybody. So we threw this barbecue. Like, we're going to have so many people. We got 100 chairs. We get tables, we'll get cornhole. Free beer. I got my grill from home. So we're like, this would be great. Community. American flags everywhere. It was sweet. I thought it was good. Nobody showed up. Sorry, sorry. One person showed up with her husband. And it was literally. Literally one person. And it was so awkward. Oh, my God, it was so bad. I felt. For the first time in my life, I felt awkward. I was sitting here and I'm like, dude, what do I say? How do I tell? Because she's a customer that we did work for, like, two weeks ago. We're like, hey, we got this barbecue. It's gonna be sick. Like, come by. It's gonna be. It was gonna be fun. Everybody's coming, but. And nobody came. It was my family, and we were eating macaroni, just hanging out and did.

[Daniel Duran]

Employees didn't come either.

[Zach Mutnick]

Sorry. They did. Yeah, most of them did. Some of them brought their kids and stuff, so they stayed. I feel like it was a little obligatory. They probably didn't want to be there. Some. A couple did, but most probably was like, oh, the boss is doing this thing. You know, let me just. Let me stay for a half an hour. So it didn't last, but. Yeah, man.

[Daniel Duran]

Oh, I'm sorry, man.

[Zach Mutnick]

Good. No, it's funny because I start. I started tiktoking around that time, and I posted this video. I made a little mashup of what happened, and I got like, hundreds of thousands of views, comments saying, like, no, we would have came. You should have told us. So it kind of was our. I mean, it was our fault. We didn't put it out like we should have. And we. We could have a pretty sweet barbecue right now. I'd be confident I can get enough people to where it'd be fun. But it's that, like, we've never done It. How do we do this? We, you know, we give a chamber of commerce 100 bucks. They put it on the website. Oh, 5,000 people get our newsletter. Whatever. Zero, right?

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah, zero.

[Zach Mutnick]

So this lady came. I don't know what to say to her, but she was so sweet, you know, she was so nice. And her husband, like, trying to make conversations like, yeah, I'm a veteran, too. And I'm just like, you can see my face. I'm not happy. I couldn't help it. I was like, damn, this sucks, dude. I felt bad, but very sweet people. Very sweet people.

[Daniel Duran]

Well, nice of you to share that with us, Zach. I'm sorry. That would have been. That would have been brutal. I kind of. I kind of do want to encourage you to take another stab at it. This. This coming 4th of July.

[Zach Mutnick]

Oh, you.

[Daniel Duran]

You're going to. You're definitely going to do.

[Zach Mutnick]

My thing is I want to have, like, a Veterans Day party. I want to have, like a big Veterans Day where you can invite anybody, but specifically veterans. A lot of veterans are here, and it's just a get together, you know, a community get together. It's not about electrical work. It's not about business. It's just about, like, community.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah. Yeah. Great. Okay, back to. The phone is actually not ringing. You're not getting any inbound. You're pouring money into marketing. A lot of it's not working. So how do you. How do you fix that?

[Zach Mutnick]

So I drove around. I didn't know what to do. I. I talked to anybody and everybody that would listen to me. I. I got marketing material and I passed them around, and I was so frustrated because it wasn't working immediately. And it wasn't like, here's a pamphlet. They're like, cool. Here's a generator. Work

[Daniel Duran]

doesn't work like that.

[Zach Mutnick]

It didn't. It's funny because last month I got a call from this RV park that I. I passed out flyers to six months ago, and we're doing work for them. They have like 300 lots. It just. It takes time, and that's. That happens all the time. What does they say? On average, 3% of people are ready to buy? So it's. It's a numbers game. And I knew that. I knew that, but I couldn't produce the numbers maybe that I needed. I drove around.

[Daniel Duran]

But. But on the. But on the other hand, Zach, part of the reason we buy business is because the phone should already be ringing. You've got stickers in the electrical panels of hundreds, maybe thousands of people around the area. Why wasn't that generating inbound?

[Zach Mutnick]

I didn't, I don't know. You know, I got suspicions, but I don't know. Ultimately you can easily say, like, the economy sucks, but it's such a cop out. That's such a cop out. I get people that come in here all the time for interviews that are like, oh, my company's going out of business, I need a new job. And I'm like, damn, must suck. But there's also company over there that's making a ton of money. Like, don't blame the economy. What are you doing? What's your strategy? And if you're not making money, pivot. Okay, so, yeah, it was tough.

[Daniel Duran]

Okay. And so then how did you, how did you fix it? Just kept hustling and eventually the phone started ringing. Or was there, was there a silver bullet?

[Zach Mutnick]

It wasn't a silver bullet. It was a little bit of everything. It was, it's still, there's still no silver bullet. It's. I'm getting there. I'm, I'm close. I could feel it. I'm close. I'm coming close to a strategy. But there's, it's, it's, it's just waiting. I mean, it's basically what he did. I didn't know what else to do. I was doing Facebook ads. I was spending so much money on ads. I wanted work so bad. I felt so bad sending my guys home at 11 o', clock, you know.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Mutnick]

How do I look them in the face and say, I just bought this business? By the way, you got 20 hours this week.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah. And it wasn't a seasonality thing. It wasn't just that you bought into the low season and through the natural progression of months, business was going to come back.

[Zach Mutnick]

I don't know. This is my first cycle. So we bought it last March, you know, what is it? April? So it's our first year. So over time we're going to see. Because I don't trust the records I have. I don't know historically what's happened month to month.

[Daniel Duran]

Oh, what, what do you mean? Because it's all paper and you haven't. You just. It's not easy to analyze or you can't analyze it.

[Zach Mutnick]

It's very black and white. I just don't trust it. Oh, you know, I don't, I don't know. And I don't want to, I don't, I don't want to lean on that for my data. I want to make new data. I want to figure out my own stuff. That I know is legit. And. Yeah, so I. I don't have that data. I know, like, macro level. April is peak season, and then it slowly drops off. So we were in a good time.

[Daniel Duran]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach Mutnick]

It was a.

[Daniel Duran]

You bought it right at the peak. Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Mutnick]

And I, you know, sit down with the seller, you know, what's going on? He's like, I don't know. I don't know. Phones aren't ringing. I don't know what to tell you. All right, go. Like, keep your 1.5. Like, drink a margarita. I'll fix this, you know? Yeah.

[Daniel Duran]

So how did that relationship with him evolve or devolve?

[Zach Mutnick]

Is my landlord. That's didn't. It didn't go well. We've had some arguments. Many arguments. There was times. It was just. It wasn't good, man. For instance, you know, there's times where he wanted to. I wanted him to take me on an estimate. There was. I didn't know. Estimating. I didn't know anything. I'm like, dude, teach me everything. Nothing.

[Daniel Duran]

He says no to that request because that seems like, say yes.

[Zach Mutnick]

And then he would just go. And not tell me when he's going.

[Daniel Duran]

I see.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah. So he would say. I said, yeah, there's a generator estimate for a car dealership. I was like, dude, I really want to meet these people. You know, I want that account. Okay. For sure. For sure. No, I didn't get to go. And then when I did, I didn't learn much. I felt like I didn't. So I stopped. I stopped even trying to. Right. I was like, I'll figure this out on my own. I don't care.

[Daniel Duran]

And so the relationship went downhill, and

[Zach Mutnick]

Relationship went downhill a lot. Yeah. He would, like. He would put USB outlets in his closet and say, I think you guys stole some material. Like, he's trying to, like, drive a wedge between. It is. You know, it's just very odd. Very odd.

[Daniel Duran]

And so how do you deal with. Or how do you recommend people deal with a seller that they don't feel like they can trust or. Or don't like having around? It's just clearly a toxic relationship. Take Rock just to ask him to.

[Zach Mutnick]

You gotta go.

[Daniel Duran]

Is that what you eventually did?

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah, I probably would have, like, fired him in the contract. You could. I could say, you know, go home, I'll pay you, but go home, do that. But really, if I'm being honest, I mean, probably wouldn't. Wouldn't have bought the business if I knew who the seller was real, you know, But I Didn't know. I didn't know what I was buying. I'm happy now. Obviously I'm happy. It's like you have a, A, a kid at 16. You're not happy when you're pregnant, but like, you got the kid. You love the kid, right? One of those,

[Daniel Duran]

one of those. Speaking of how your sites now things are going well, you, despite the fact that you struggled to get to generate demand for the business, in fact, you ended last year at what you think was higher revenue than, than your prior, right?

[Zach Mutnick]

It was 1.73. Yeah, he. Look, he closed at 1.3 last year. I, Dude, I hustled my butt off. I mean, the phone was not ringing, but I was, I was making sure something happened, right. And it was working. We upped our prices. That's another thing that helped a lot. I, I kept my guys busy for the most part and it worked out ultimately at 1.7, we're still here, right? We.

[Daniel Duran]

Well, you're not only still here, you're. You're doing better than it seems like the business is in much better shape than when you bought it. Not only is revenue higher, the culture is more and more yours. And you've turned over people who were not going to agree with your culture. And now you have people. You said, as you said earlier, you have a crew that you're really psyched about. So you. On the one hand, I hear like last year was this brutal struggle and the phone wasn't ringing and failed marketing and pouring money into that, a lot of turnover. On the other hand, it seems like where you emerged was a really, is a really good place.

[Zach Mutnick]

It was also cyclical. There were some months. Hurricane season is big here. We did over 200,000 made in like July. August was very similar. So those are, it's our bread and butter. And like, I could sell generators like no other. I mean, that's my thing, dude. So we were doing that a lot and it was working. And we still are. We're going to do that again, but it was cyclical. So there were some months that was very low, some months that are high. You know, it was, it was rough. But yeah, no, we're, we're doing great. We're. We're crushing it right now. And we're rebranding and it's like, it's like a, it's going to be sick.

[Daniel Duran]

Rebranding. Talk us, talk to us about that because that's usually one of the things that we buy business for is the brand name recognition. So. But you're Getting. Tossing that out.

[Zach Mutnick]

So talk us through that highly controversial thing to do. A lot of people do not agree with me and rightly so. I understand where they're coming from. However, I don't want it. I want my own. I want my own business and I feel like it's not fully mine because that's not my name, you know, it's

[Daniel Duran]

his name, it's his. What's the name of the business right here?

[Zach Mutnick]

It's Jeff Masters Electric and we still go by that right now. All right. We're slowly rebranding. I just got a new website. There's a lot that's going on. I just got the new website, but it's like, it's for this business. Because I was like, I did it before we rebranded, so I was like, hey, by the way, new website again. But yeah, it's going to be cool. We just got our first new van delivered yesterday. It's electric, it's massive. It's just. I bought it because it's a billboard, so it's going to be wrapped and right now we have those like, how do I say this? The white, no window vans. Right. With a couple like a handyman. It looks like a discount handyman and I hate it. Uniforms suck. I mean, I could change it, but whatever. It just doesn't look value and that's what I want. I want a company that is like prestigious almost. Right. Like people respect. And it's not that they don't respect because we have an amazing electricians, but it's definitely that local. Like mom and pop. They'll do it for cheap, almost like kind of vibe, you know what I mean? And I don't. That's. That's not me. You know, we're growing. It's going to be a completely different business.

[Daniel Duran]

And do you. So this is a. Interesting question. So. So you have all of that, you have referral business and you have all those stickers on all those panels. You do wonder, like, is it.

[Will Smith]

Maybe it's just the phone number being

[Zach Mutnick]

everywhere at with it. Yeah.

[Daniel Duran]

And maybe the Jeff Masters brand actually isn't that valuable. It's more like the phone number being on the side of all these panels. Of course. Although when you think about like the referral business that comes in, people probably refer to the business as Jeff Master's business. So that will be confusing. So you'll probably lose something there. So. But it's interesting because, you know, I think it's too simplistic to be like, well, part of the reason that you buy A business is for the brand recognition. Well, maybe the, the brand, the actual name of the business isn't always so valuable.

[Zach Mutnick]

It's. It's true. It's tough. It's a, it was a tough decision, honestly. The phone number is important. That's kind of where I'm at with it too, is it's the same phone number. We're going to reroute the emails as well. So we're still keeping the same email, but it's going to be forwarded to our new email. Every. Everybody that comes in is still going to come to us, but it is going to be a learning process. There's going to. I think it's going to be years because people call us from years ago that they haven't seen us in a long time. So it's gonna happen in five years for this person. Didn't know we changed. So I'm, you know, I'm gonna have to change my email footer. Like, we changed everywhere. Everywhere and everywhere. I'm doing a marketing campaign. It's a whole thing and it sucks that, you know, we gotta do that. But ultimately, I know long term that's the move and I just, like, I'm happy with it. Like, I think it looks cool and I, you know, I wanna rock it. Like, honestly, dude, I don't wear this when I'm in the gym or when I go to Home Depot. Like, and I want. There's some negative connotation as well. As we've alluded to, we are the county's electrical contractor now. So I won the bid to be the contractor for, I think up to three years. And we gave them, it's like a flat labor rate, but we get, we get business in. And when we had our first meeting, we had six, you know, head dudes from the utility and maintenance department and, and the vibe was such that they expected the seller. They didn't know they, that he sold it. Jeff Masters Electric bought or they won the bid? Not me. They have no idea. So I walk in with my wife and it was like a sigh of relief from them. And they, they talked about it a little bit, you know, talked about like they knew him type stuff. So it is.

[Daniel Duran]

Oh, wait. So even though he, they had awarded him this contract, they weren't psyched about, they weren't psyched about the business.

[Zach Mutnick]

It was just the lowest bidder. It's one of those.

[Daniel Duran]

I see.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah. They have, they have no say in it. It's just, it's just bureaucracy. So they don't get to choose who they work with. It's contractual. You know, I think they're a little happy now. But yeah, yeah, there's a lot of burnt bridges. And that's another reason. Like, yes, there is a lot of brand recognition. A lot of people that, that, that know this and call because they know it. They specifically search that name in Google and we'll still have that. That'll still be a thing. It'll just be rerouted. But there's also a lot of people that don't work with us anymore, don't want to work with us anymore. You know, go around to specific people. Really, they will never work with you anymore, no matter what. If that's the name, you know, and that's, I think I bet I can get it. It's a goal of mine. I'm gonna get them, you know, new business.

[Daniel Duran]

And what's the new, the new brand?

[Zach Mutnick]

It's called Mutts. Electric Mutt Lightning bolt S. And it's a plan. My name.

[Daniel Duran]

So is that, that's the new logo.

[Zach Mutnick]

That's the new branding, new logo.

[Daniel Duran]

Oh, that's great. I can't see the, I can't. It's a little. Oh, yeah, yeah. I couldn't see the apostrophe is lightning bolt. But that's great.

[Zach Mutnick]

A little bit. But I think it looks sweet. So I was drawn on my iPad for a year trying to figure this out. I was like, I feel like I should rebrand. I don't know. But I'm not in love with anything that I figured out. And I just, I never pulled the trigger because I wasn't in love with it. And I was like, if I'm not totally digging it, I'm not doing it because it's gonna be such a headache. So finally I came up with this and I was like, that's it. You know, that's it. I'm gonna do that.

[Daniel Duran]

You came up with the, the logo.

[Zach Mutnick]

Oh, yeah. So it's mutts and then there's electric here. That isn't going to be on know a lot of stuff. I think I, I, I just want it as a, a symbol. Right. Chase, not Chase Bank. So you're gonna, you're gonna see this symbol everywhere and it's gonna be ubiquitous. You're gonna know it's an electrical company because, you know, mutts, it doesn't need to say electrical. And I think it looks pretty sweet. Just, you know, one word.

[Daniel Duran]

Yeah. Yeah. And you were going for kind of vintage vibes.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah, I, the whole, the whole time While I was designing, was focused on 1950s, 1960s aesthetic. We have a lot of old people where we're at, and. And on the other side of the state, Florida in general, you know what I mean? They call this area Heaven's Waiting room. The average person in this county is 65 years old, so we do work for 90 year olds. And so, yeah, it's kind of like nostalgic for boomers. You know, I think it looks cool, but also, like, I know what I'm

[Daniel Duran]

doing, you know, I think Mutts is a great mutt. So. Mutts, yeah, it's a little confusing.

[Zach Mutnick]

I know people like, whoa, is there a dog mascot? Which I totally understand, but, like, no.

[Daniel Duran]

And I. I assume Mutts is a nickname that you've had in life.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah, my last name is Mutnick. You know, it's. It's a play on that. I added two T's because people can't, like, pronounce it with one. And people would call me Mutt on In the Navy and stuff. So I figured short, sweet. I always. I wanted it one or two syllables. I don't want a long name. I hate saying Jeff Masters Electric. It's too long. I hate it. So I wanted something short and sweet. Must Electric. Boom. Money.

[Daniel Duran]

You know, Zach, one of the things that about you that is different than many of my guests is you go with your gut a lot. You have strong feelings about things, and you go with the feeling on this podcast, in our world, probably certainly my personality, but I think the personality. A lot of people who are on and listen to this podcast, very analytical need to justify every decision with a, you know, a coherent argument as opposed to instinct. And you are a guy who acts on instinct.

[Zach Mutnick]

Fair.

[Daniel Duran]

I mean, I think we.

[Zach Mutnick]

I think about this too. I. I know for a fact I'm good at marketing, and I know I'm good at business, but I have no proof. I've never done it. So now I got to do it. Historically, throughout my life, I just like a very, I don't know, mechanical and creative. So I invent things. So I written down things. I have several notepads from when I was, like, six, you know, seven. And I would have these inventions, and then a few years later, it would be a thing. I'm like, dude, that was my idea. Dozens of them, like, all the time. Um, and so I did have that, like, confirmation. It is kind of like, dude, that sucks. But, like, also, I didn't do anything about it. And I can't be mad because I Didn't. I didn't act on it. So now when I have an idea, I'm like, screw it. I'm gonna do it. Every single. Not every single. I have a lot of ideas. Not every single idea. Let me focus. But I'm gonna do it, right? I'm gonna pick the one I want to do and I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm an actor. Like, I do things, man. I'm sick of thinking. I've been doing that my whole life. I've been sick of dreaming I'm going to do it.

[Daniel Duran]

That's awesome.

[Zach Mutnick]

That's.

[Daniel Duran]

That's a great philosophy, Zach. That probably is where we should end it. But I just. A couple things to wrap. So you. You've touched on what you want to get into, the areas that you want to take the business. Say those again for us. What's the kind of flesh out that. That. That vision, that dream to triple the business to. From 1 and a half, 1.7 to 5 million of revenue the next few years.

[Zach Mutnick]

So I think it could be pretty substantial. Residential. I think it has good brand awareness. It'll be good for. For residential leads. I do also want commercial service work. We've been bidding commercial new construction, and ultimately, I don't think that's our. I don't think that's our thing, man. I'm not into it. Too much liability. Just not into it. So service work, all in residential, new construction as well. But we're also doing industrial and commercial. Commercial. We're doing cruise ships. You know, I go on cruise ships sometimes and fix stuff. And we're doing everything. We're doing generators, obviously, I'm the generator guy. So we're now doing, you know, generac whole home generators. We're doing commercial diesel generators. Install and fix anything and everything. We're not doing solar. That's probably the only thing. We're not doing everything else we do. And everybody in this. In this building has a specific experience, right? And it's all different. So everybody kind of meshes together and has their specific thing that they're good at. So, yeah, I feel very comfortable with it.

[Daniel Duran]

And so when you talk about growing, it's basically adding service lines, although you've already added a lot. And then as demand drives. Drives you to have to hire more people into that division, you just do so and you grow along with demand. But I guess the point is your perception is that there's. I mean, obviously electrical is an enormous market and you feel like you can just grow into a much larger business if you're hustling after it than it was when you bought it.

[Zach Mutnick]

Exactly. Yeah. I think I could probably double the residential side and then, you know, increase the commercial, increase the industrial, and those things will trickle in. I'm not going to focus heavily on it, but it's nice. I think that stuff's interesting, but we are going to be still primarily residential service work and new construction.

[Daniel Duran]

And I heard you say you go on riverboats or.

[Zach Mutnick]

Or cruise. Yeah, it was like the first job I ever did. I don't go in the field, you know, not my thing anymore.

[Daniel Duran]

Talk to us about that, Zach, because I. On working in the business or on the business or as a technician. Because you did say that all of your background has been super relevant to doing this successfully. But in fact, you're. You're not getting your hands dirty anymore.

[Zach Mutnick]

I will say. No, I will say being a veteran has helped a lot with networking and, like, a lot. You know, it's just a little secret code, like, you're in a little secret society. Once you know you're Someone else is a veteran, like, all guards down, you know, immediately you can talk to them as, like, you already know them. So it's a lot of who you know. Someone called in. We have a lot of people that find us from Google. Someone called in and she's, you know, a manager of sorts for cruise ships. And she said, I need. I need to fix this thing. Nobody can help me. I don't know what to do. No company can go out right now. I was like, I don't know, man. We don't really do that. But that's exactly what I did in the Navy. Like, let me see. So I was like, let me talk to the engineer. So I get on the phone with the engineer. Turns out we had the exact same job in the Navy, and we were in the same city at the same time. And we, like, we just clicked. And I was like, dude, I'll come. You know, I'll come out. I came out in, like, two hours. I took one of my guys, and it was just fun, man. I. I enjoyed it. I'm not going to do that all the time, but sometimes it was fun. So, yes, we are looking for people that can do that kind of stuff. We're partnering with other companies that already do it. I found. I found a guy in Fort Myers, is pretty solid. He can. He does that work. So we're just going to almost, like, sub it out, but we're going to be with him, right? We're going To. I told them the cruise ship. I said, you know what hydraulic it was water, fuel. I don't care what it is. Call me. If it's broken, call me. I'll be your dude. All right? I'll be here once. I'll. I'll fix your pain. Stop dealing with everybody else. I'll figure it out.

[Daniel Duran]

And so how are you spending your. Your days these days, Zach?

[Zach Mutnick]

In this chair, man, it's. It's like a lot of monitors, you know, there's so much to do. There's just so much to do. But I've realized I need to leave the office. I don't get much done when I'm here, and I feel like my team kind of does the same because I. I get interrupted all the time. And this, you know, ADHD pretty bad. I got my calendar, and I'm. I'm very good with using my calendar because, you know, the adhd, whatever. I have come up with systems for my personal, you know, for myself. And I have this calendar that I follow. I have notes in my app, blah, blah, blah. I have alarms for my appointments and stuff. I have alarms to say, look at the calendar. Yeah, yeah, it sucks. But you know what? That's what I have to do. And I don't get to check off any of those several. You know, most days because I'm just. There's just so much other stuff to do. There's always stuff to do. So I gotta go home. I gotta go to Starbucks or Jimmy John's. I don't care. I just go hang out and work from there and get more done.

[Daniel Duran]

And. And because a lot of times you're being interrupted by your team, or they just come in with a quick question sort of thing. Yeah, but constantly.

[Zach Mutnick]

But it's so funny because, like, if I'm not there, they figured out they don't need it. They don't need me. Maybe it's like a, hey, we should ask the boss of respect kind of thing, because most. Most of what I do now is approving things I don't. You know, I'm not. I'm not doing estimates mainly. I'm not doing any of this stuff. So they come to me, they say, hey, what do you think about this job? I laid it all out. And I was like, what do you. What do you think? And they're like, well, I think you should do this. And I was like, do it. So I'm just doing more and more of that for them to get comfortable with. Like, okay, the thing that I chose is correct so, because I tell them, take ownership. You know, you got. You got control, but, you know, it's taken time for them to be comfortable with it. Great.

[Daniel Duran]

Zach, anything we didn't get to that you wanted to. You're feeling good about this, this move in life?

[Zach Mutnick]

Oh, yeah, man. Oh, solid. It's like the. It's the best decision I ever made. I would. I would always do it over again. You know, ultimately, it was what I was going to do, so just do it now. That's what I got. If I. If I had to tell somebody, you're not going to be ready ever. Just do it. Like, just do it, you know, and it's. It's fun, it's stressful, but it's probably the most rewarding thing you can ever do. And, you know, to give people bonuses when you don't have to, just, like, it's. I don't know. It's really rewarding. I like to help people, and I want to. I want to help the community. I want to help our employees. I want to have a dope place to work where they get paid more than they ever did. And, like, it just feels good. I. My. My goal is to have a company picnic, like, in the office where they had all those different branches and they have a softball team or volleyball. That's my goal. I want that, right? I want that culture. I want that, you know, everybody's cool with each other. And it's. I work here, too. I tell them all the time, like, I want to have fun, too. Like, I don't want to be miserable. So I want. I want to like you guys and you. Likewise. Right? It's. It's great, man. You get to. You get to choose. You get to do things. If you want to do. The more you want to change your business, you can do it. I mean, there may be repercussions, but you could do it. And it's. It's just fun, you know?

[Daniel Duran]

Zach Mutnick, really fun interview. Great story. Thanks for joining us on Acquiring Minds.

[Zach Mutnick]

Yeah, man. Appreciate it. Anytime.

[Daniel Duran]

Hope you enjoyed that interview.

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