C (2:45)

There you go.

B (2:46)

Yeah. And by the way, way to not carry on the New Jersey stereotype about ads and making pasta on your birthday here in New Jersey. Perfect. John.

A (2:54)

Yes.

C (2:57)

Well, John, I think. Oh, I'm sorry.

A (2:59)

Go ahead, Scott.

B (3:00)

I was gonna say I'm John. Thanks for joining us, man. I really appreciate it. Quick background. John was an athletic director in my conference, leader in our conference. Learned a lot from John over the years and for all the great things he did, both at, like, a local, state, and national level, because he's always been very active. I always admired this bench thing that he had going. Like his coaching tree slash. Athletic director tree is something to really aspire to, and that's why I was hoping that John be able to share that with us and our guests.

A (3:34)

I'm very much looking forward to the conversation. I mean, I'm a college football junkie. Scott knows that. And this time of year, you see the coaching carousel getting fired up and people talking about how succession plans, all of those things. And solid coaches always want to build solid coaching trees to be able to leave places better off than when they got there. And I think this is a perfect example of seeing how many times you've worked with individuals, grown your own athletic director, coaching tree. I think it's a good conversation for all our ads to hear, because at some point or another, you either need to identify someone that's going to be joining your team, or you're potentially exiting and you want to make sure that it's left in good hands. So with that said, what were some of the qualities that you saw in individuals early on that made you think not only can they lead just their athletic programs, but there's larger avenues that they could lead through athletic administration. What were some of the qualities you saw in those folks?

C (4:32)

Well, before I answer that, I just want to say, and I'm very proud to say, I've had two coaches that have gone on to become principals. I've had two coaches that have gone on to be vice principals, three coaches who are now active athletic directors, and one student athlete who's an active athletic director. So it's a pretty big, long bench, and I'm very proud of that. As far as going back to answering that question, you know, obviously they have an athletic background. I think that that goes without saying. And I go back to my early days when I first started teaching back in 1978. After two years of teaching, my principal said, john, I think you have administrative capabilities. I think you should go get your master's. And I did. And by 1983 I had finished my master's and I started working towards trying to get an administrative job. So it's having somebody who encourages you, somebody who supports you, somebody encourages you. And you're going to hear this word a lot during this interview. And that's modeling. You know, these, these guys that, and gals that have become ads, they have modeled some of the things that I've done in our school and brought them to their school. And it makes me proud. But it's because it was the way to do the job. It was the way to do the job. So seeing them, that they had the potential, they had the athletic background, they had the, the, the motivation to be a head coach and to go to school to get their certification and all that stuff at the same time, which is not easy when you're raising a family. Not easy. There's a lot of sacrifices there, you know, a lot of sacrifices. And we'll talk later about some of the negatives of the job, I'm sure. But you know, I tried to always encourage them and be there for anything they asked, any kind of support they needed.

A (6:36)

I love that. I really like the term modeling too, you know, because that's essentially what you have to do. And it isn't easy, you know, because I'm pretty sure all of us on this call at one point or another had to make that decision of going back and continuing the education, getting the master's degree, which, you know, it sounds easy on paper, but then you put into practice that you've got your day to day life going on while you're trying to juggle that. And the other piece that stands out to me too is the motivation piece. You know, it's pretty simple to identify people because they got an athletic background. You just have the assumption that they're going to roll up their sleeves and want to get into administration at some point or another. Not everybody is cut that way, you know, And I think that you have to have that motivation, that intrinsic desire to grow. And that's something that's a quality that's really easy to see in some folks and others you got to probably pull it out of. I would assume too.

C (7:27)

Well, you know, it's interesting that you're saying that because as, as proud as I, as I am of those people I mentioned earlier, I have three of my four kids are health and phys ed teachers and coaches, and none of them are pursuing, going into administration. None of them.

C (7:47)

Maybe it's because they saw how hard it was.

A (7:50)

I was just gonna say maybe, maybe they heard the downside that you mentioned earlier, like, oh, the cons of the job.

C (7:55)

Yeah, yeah, that's probably it. And the fact that they're raising now, you know, and, and it makes it even harder to do that kind of job when you're raising a family.

A (8:04)

Absolutely no doubt about it.

B (8:06)

You know, John, one of the things that struck me as you were talking is like, number one, identifying the right people, but then you being that true mentor to them and starting to help them think long term. You were a couple years in, it sounds like, to admit to teaching, and somebody came to you and said you may have those qualities. You should think about it. Like when you're 24, 25, 26 years old, you're not always thinking long term, you're not always thinking about what's the next step. And to have somebody like you come to them and say you have to be thinking that way is really special and really helpful. And then the other side of it is, heck, if you can get people in early, if they haven't started their families yet, it's even just a little bit easier. Right. Like, I was single without kids when I started that process, and I can't even imagine having done it with wife, kids. So if you can get them on that path earlier and identify them earlier, I think that's a big plus for them moving forward.

C (9:04)

Yeah. And I think if you can encourage them not only to continue to pursue, because a lot of them are doing it because they're young and they want to move up on the guide and they want to have a bigger salary or for whatever the case may be, whether as a solo person or in a relationship. So, yeah, once you notice that they're going to school and you know, they have those qualities that you think would be, would benefit the athletic area or administration, any administration, it's. It behooves that person, or myself, any person in my position to encourage, to support and mentor. Hey, if you have to write any papers, bring them to me. I'll help you. You know, you know, I'll look, I'll read them over for you. You know, I'll make some suggestions, I'll read them over for you. You know, stupid little things like that. You know, I, I Remember when they got all of them, when they got to sort of the end of their, their educational training, if you will, and they got their certificate and they're now looking for jobs. They, I remember having conversations with them and, and they would say what, what are the positives or what are the negatives of the job? Because they were, they wanted to know that right then they were trying to make a decision between going into administration, you know, vp, you know, department chair, that kind of stuff, or going into athletics, which is their love. And I remember telling them, I said, it's a great job. You're going to love this job. The rewards are unbelievable, but the hours are horrible. If you do the job the way you're supposed to do the job, and you guys both know there's those ads that don't do the job the way you're supposed to do the job. To me, I went to everything, I went to everything I could go to and that meant home and away. We had skiing, we had ice hockey, we had swimming, there were off campus activities. I went to as many bowling and went to as many as I could. But always the home events, always covered the home events. So I told him that was the big negative. The negative was the hours it takes away from your family. And.

C (11:15)

My predecessor at Jefferson, I remember he said to me when he was leaving, he said, john, do one thing for me. He said, get your calendar and put family in at least one day a week. Put family down in your calendar and make yourself go home. And so there are things I shared with the people in my department.

B (11:37)

Yeah, so true.

A (11:38)

I love that.

B (11:39)

Really is. And I, and I saw you at a lot of those events, John, so I can certainly vouch for you on that case there.

B (11:48)

Next question I have is, is finding the balance, like when you're trying to help people grow and give people some responsibility under your leadership, you still got to find that balance between releasing sort of the responsibility from you to them. So how do you kind of find that balance to smoothly allow them to do some things, to learn, but also still maintain some control, which is your responsibility?

C (12:15)

Well, you know, I was looking at that question and trying to understand because the people who we're talking about, who were head coaches for me or and might have also been in my health and phys ed department.

C (12:32)

It wasn't about me releasing them or giving them control, those kind of things, because they were busy, they were busy people. They were doing all this on their own with encouragement, but doing it on their own, you know, trying to get some of them to sometimes be site managers, you know, when they were not coaching, you know, come and be a site manager. You know, if I was running a tournament, I would try to get them jobs in the tournament so that they could understand what it's like to run a tournament or at least be a part of it. You know, whether it was a ticket taker, whether it was crowd control, whatever it was. And that's really where a lot of them gained some experience, especially crowd control, when you can get them to be. To do those kind of things.

C (13:18)

And then we go back to the whole modeling thing. It's more about modeling. You know, I. We all had ads that we know of that all they did was their job at their school. They didn't take any leadership position in our conference. They didn't, they didn't go to the state convention, they didn't go to the national convention.

C (13:38)

All the ads that have become that were coaches for me, they go to those things. One of them is the president of Morris County. One of them is a second. He's also the secretary of the conference. The other one is getting involved in running tournaments. So one of them does all the scheduling for the conference. So they, they, I'm going to say I modeled that kind of stuff, but they also took it upon themselves because that's the kind of people they were. They wanted to be the right kind of ad, so not only take care of their jobs and their school, but also contribute to the conference. I think that's really, really important.

B (14:17)

I love that.

A (14:18)

I love that. Yeah, I love that.

B (14:22)

Greg.

A (14:24)

So makes me think of an interview that I just saw with Dan Lanning. I mean, you basically echoed almost everything that he was talking about. And he, he was basically asked, you know, like, how did you get to the position that you're in right now? And one of the things that he's mentioned was when he was a graduate assistant on Nick Saban's staff, any opportunity to do something outside of his quote, unquote job description he took, and he always encourages his ads to take those on, or I'm sorry, his GA's to take those on, because that's how you learn. Learn by doing. So, like when you're talking about, I encourage him to be an event manager. I encourage him to understand how to do crowd control. Those are things that, honestly, I mean, I'll speak for myself, Scott. I don't want to speak for you. I didn't know how to do that when I first got into being an ad. It was a learn by doing type thing. And anytime you have that opportunity to go and do something that is a part of a job that you want to do, you got to take it, because what happens if you eventually get that job and you have no clue how to do any of that stuff? So I really love the. The examples of, hey, take these opportunities, go manage an event, go be in charge of a. Of a crowd. Understand how you're going to navigate if you have a situation where you still have that safety net of like, okay, well, this is. I'm helping. This isn't me running the show, because eventually one day it's going to be you running the show and you're going to be able to have the one that has the answers for those people that are helping you. So I love that. And again, it goes back to the modeling piece. Right.

B (15:49)

I do, too.

C (15:51)

I. I did wanted to.

C (15:55)

You know, I. When I first started out, I was a director of student activities. That was my first administrative job. And I ran all the clubs. I did all that kind of stuff. And then I got a. I was looking for other jobs, vice principal job, administrative jobs. And I wasn't sure. Ad, vp. Adv. Well, I went on the job search and I was offered both jobs. AD at one school and VP at another school. And I took the VP job. I probably took it back then. If I think about it, it was probably more money. And I took the VP job and I went that route and nine years as a vp, and then I got a principal job. Then I was two years as a principal. I'm one of the few people who went from principal to ad, and the reason I did that is because I wanted to be happier. I wanted to like my job more. And being a person who grew up with athletics, my whole family and everybody, you know, I. I wanted to be involved in athletics. And no offense to the student activities, the choral concert and the poetry and the band and all that kind of stuff. They have their niche and, and that's where they. They love what they do. But I much rather be at a basketball game than a chorus concert. That's the way I looked at it. And. And so that's the route I went. And. And then I stayed as ad and then I just got more active. The fun part is, I remember correctly, I encouraged somebody on this, on this podcast to become the president of Morris county because I wanted him to learn what it was like to have a leadership position outside of your school.

B (17:37)

Thanks so much.

B (17:41)

You know. You know so much. What you said is true. I mean, I've always believed like if you can have empathy in a job or working with people, that means a lot. So like if you've already walked those shoes or worn that hat, it's really helpful as you start a job where you may be helping people or hiring people for those positions. So, you know, getting them involved in all those little steps before becoming an athletic director I think is critically important. And John, the fun part now is how many positions are vice principal and athletic director. So you got to separate those out. Now you kind of get both in a lot of positions, which obviously makes the job even tougher at times.

C (18:19)

I'll tell you the turnover. You know, as you mentioned earlier, I'm the executive director of the conference right now. And every meeting it seems like there's a new face and these young people are coming in and two things are happening. Number one, their school district is just loading on more and more responsibility, whether it be nurses, whether it be transportation facilities, whatever it is. So they're just getting more and more. And then on the other side, they don't have the training, they don't realize how many hours it is and how hard of a job it is and the responsibility. I always say the people in your community care more about the basketball game than the education part. Sometimes, you know, they, they, they, they want to make sure everything is right with their son or daughter or whatever sport they're in and seems like they care more about that than their kids education. I know that's not true. I know they care about their education, but it just seems that way. They're very passionate. The parents are very passionate when it comes to athletics. And these young guys and young girls, they don't realize.

C (19:29)

The pressure of the job. And they're not staying. They're coming in, they're getting their feet wet in administration and then they're taking administrative job. That might be a little easier or especially hours wise.

B (19:43)

They may not have been prepared as well, they may not have understood as well coming in. Whereas I look at some of the people who are athletic directors that you mentored and work kind of like for you so far they're staying in as the athletic director jobs. So that's even a little bit more credit the way you've prepared them. They understand it more than others who just see sports and they have their administrative degree and they're like, I'll do that. That sounds fun.

C (20:10)

Well, it's, it's interesting when I, when I learned, after I spoke to you and, and you told me about this podcast and you invited me to be on it. I called one of them and I said, what did I do? What did I do to encourage you? What did I do to make you want to be an athletic director? And. And I'm not patting myself on the back because there's something he told me. And I said, wow, that's really cool. But him and. Him and the other one, one of the other ones, Matt, Brian and Matt, they said, we did the WWJD. And I said, what's WWJD? And they said, what would John DeColo do? And. And I said, oh, that's. I said, that's pretty cool. And they said, john, you can't imagine how many times we use that. When he calls me or I call him. We say, what would John do? What would he have done? And that makes me even more proud because I just. I just always thought I did the job the right way, the way I think every AD should do the job. And that means being there for your athletes, being there for your parents, and supporting your coaches. Supporting your coaches 100%. You know, Scott and Greg, I'm sure you had these rules, or at least you hoped that you. When. When the parent called the principal, you hope your principal said, have you spoken to the ad? And then when that parent calls me, my coaches hope, I said, did you talk to the coach? And then did your son or daughter talk to the coach before you calling me? I did not allow parents to do an end run around me, and luckily I had principals and superintendents who supported that. And they didn't just let parents go to them and then come, hey, I had parents call me when one called, you know, so I really didn't have too much problem, too many problems with parents. It worked out pretty well for me.

B (22:04)

I'll let Greg jump in, but I'll just finally say, like, you know.

B (22:08)

Understanding that somebody is always watching, right? Like, if people are modeling, you know, you're modeling and people are watching. Like, you think about that with your own kids, but you don't always think about that with your coaches or others. Like, somebody's always watching. And so to be able to make sure that you're operating from that standpoint is pretty cool, too.

C (22:29)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (22:31)

I completely agree with you, Scott And John, you're 100% right when you said, like, modeling is going to be kind of a key term, which we're looking at today as we're having that conversation. You know, the wwjd, that speaks volumes to it right there. That's all you need to hear. Is that's how you modeled for those former coaches that are now in administrative roles. They look to you for mentorship, you know, and I was fortunate in my career that I had some mentors that I could look up to, and I was in those situations, and I was like, well, what would they do? How would they handle this? You could sometimes give them a call, hey, how would you handle this? And it's because the behaviors that you displayed to them, they entrusted what you were doing in your leadership style because they saw that it was successful. And I think, to Scott's point, you know, you don't always know who's watching, you know, so you want to make sure you're doing the right thing at all times for not only just your job and. And how well you do it, but also for those that you may not know are watching, and you could be influencing them. You know, they. They could be looking to become an administrator one day and go, hey, you know, like, I saw him doing this. I should probably do that if I ever get into that role. Or the flip side is they may see what you're doing and be like, man, I never want that job.

C (23:44)

Absolutely. You know, it's funny you're saying that. I can specifically remember being at a county game, and I won't mention the school or the ad or anything like that, but there was some. Some business going on in the stands with a parent. And this ad, I remember watching him, and he was confrontational. He was confrontational, and I thought that he made the situation worse. And you know me, I used proximity with my parents. You know, if. If I had a parent that was maybe a little boisterous and starting to get on refs, a lot of times I would just go stand near them, where I'd go sit next to him and say, hey, how you doing? You know, you got to cut. You know, you got to bring it down a little bit. You know, that kind of stuff, which worked so much better than being confrontational. I could count on one hand how many times I had to remove a parent from. From a contest.

C (24:39)

So, you know, I learned by watching people as well. So I think that goes a long way. The modeling goes a long way. And then supporting. One of the things I think we do in our profession better than any profession is the support we give to one another. It doesn't matter. I always told my coaches, call me 24 7. I want to know about a problem before I walk in the building. But as far as colleagues, we tell each one of my responsibilities as executive Director is mentoring new ads. The first thing I do is I write an email. I said, call me anytime you have a problem. I know you're going to have maybe somebody that's close to you, like, you know, the, the next school over that you play a lot and all that kind of stuff. I said, but if you've got a situation, you're not sure how to handle it, or even if you know how you want to handle it, you want to run it by me, give me a call. I'll tell you what I would have done and, and try to help you through it. And we do that better than, you know, I was principal for, like I said, for two years. It wasn't like that, you know, a little bit, but not like it is with ads. It's a great, great group. Great group.

A (25:50)

I think that's a great segue to my next question for you, you know, for, for those that are not current athletic administration administrators, and even for those that are, you know, what type of role do you view networking? You know, networking with state associations, conferences, professional groups. How does that help an aspiring athletic director? What are your thoughts on that?

C (26:16)

Well, you know, I look at it sort of like I look at volunteering. You know, when you get involved in your county association, you get involved in your, even your conference and taking on additional roles like running a sport tournament or something like that, and the national. I, I think it's like you're, you're giving back. You're, you're, you're helping others other than just the ones you're responsible to help. And, and I, I love that. I love that, you know, you know, right now I, I, one of my job responsibilities is the constitution, the, and the bylaws. And, and I know it like the back of my hand. And, and so anything that comes up in that conference, I apply it to that constitution and say, hey, wait, we can't do that, or, yeah, we got to do it this way. I just think going out there and helping others by leadership and taking on these different roles, I think is important. It disappoints me that we have ads in our conference that have never run a tournament, never run any tournament. They have just done their school. That disappoints me. That means they didn't get the right message somehow, you know, And I like.

A (27:32)

That point because, like, where I was at, a big phrase that we heard throughout just the campus community was servant leadership, you know, and servant leadership. How are you going to be a servant leader? And to your point, I felt that There were some that I worked with, some colleagues that far surpassed what a servant leader would be defined as. And there were others where, like, you speak it, but you don't do it right. And I think that it becomes really important that you're willing to take on those responsibilities, willing to put yourself out there, get out of your comfort zone, and again, learn by doing. Again, as you mentioned earlier, modeling a behavior. And I think that that's a good take on it, is just be willing to go a little bit above and beyond and outside the scope of your current job description, have a little bit of servant leadership towards it, and the dividends will really pay off extremely quickly.

C (28:26)

Yeah, yeah. You know, I remember when Unified Sports were first coming around in New Jersey, and I asked all the athletic directors, Scott, I'm not sure if you were still there or not, but I remember saying, I'm going to. I'm going to run a unified track meet. How many of you are interested? And I said this in the fall, and I. All these hands went up and all these hands, they all said, we want to do it. That's great. Great. And I said, okay. So I started organizing it, and I had a track meet in the fall. I mean, in the. In the spring. And one school ended up coming. Morristown, one school, the only school to participate. And both of us left that afternoon saying this was the best experience we ever had, just watching those kids and how happy they were.

C (29:12)

And. And, you know, it's a shame now. Now it has grown. Unified Sports has. Has grown. I'm so happy for that because those deserve that athletic avenue as well. So that's important. That's another important aspect of it.

B (29:27)

Yes, sir.

B (29:30)

All right, so although John decolo seems to be omnipresent, there are times when you're busy also, and you can't necessarily lead everybody at all times. So my question is, what other resources are out there outside of.

B (29:48)

WWJD for aspiring athletic directors or even those that have come in? So tools, programs, resources. Where would you find help, helpful guidance for the next generation?

C (30:04)

Well, you know, attending the conventions are important, and probably more so than the workshops are the camaraderie and those. What do you call the hospitality suites where you share. You share those experiences that you've had most of the time negative, and how you dealt with them, that's very, very important. But I think training. Training goes a long way. You know, it is. It's one thing to hire teachers and coaches as site managers or crowd control. You got to train them, too. You got to tell them how to do that job. And, and so that's, you know, it. They learn by doing, but as long as they have something going in so they're not uncomfortable, this is what you do if this happens. This is what you do if that happens. And that's good, they're going to use that in their career.

C (30:58)

I remember. I remember. I got it. And we share. Ad share. Scott knows. I, I had a. I had an athletic department manual. I had everything in it. And I did workshops where I presented the manual and I got the word out beforehand. Bring a thumb drive. If you bring a thumb drive, I'll give you my manual. And I said, all I need you to do is take the name Jefferson off and put your school name and you can use it. And the one I remember I used the most was the parent communication pamphlet. And we give it to every one of our parents. This is what you can talk to a coach about. This is what is off limits to talk to a coach about. This is how you talk to the coach and contact the athletic drug, et cetera, et cetera. Important document that helped me and I've given that to. I can't tell you how many ads.

B (31:45)

I think I like the section of that one, John, for how to start new programs. I remember that document and you had a really good section in there, like, hey, you want to start a bowling team? You don't have one. Like, what is the criteria and how to get it going? So, yeah, I think that was really helpful. It was a three year process, for sure.

C (32:06)

Yeah, yeah, I had.

B (32:09)

So you get it from your own colleagues. I also think, and you said it like going to these conventions, these athletic directors, state shows, national, where you can literally go and take workshops, oftentimes run by sitting athletic directors or former athletic directors. You're hearing it from the people who lived it. Not some theory, not some, you know, anything else, but you're actually getting some good tools and some great ideas to help you. We always talk about that on the podcast. Go to, Go to a national, go to a state and bring back one thing that you can do every day that's going to help you in the department. And it was well worth your time and energy there. I also think, you know, the NFHS has done a really nice job. I know you've been involved in IAA and nfhs learn and that kind of stuff. And taking those certification classes can be really valuable too.

C (33:01)

Absolutely, absolutely.

A (33:05)

So question for you, John, as we kind of like look ahead, what trends do you see or foresee kind of shaping the skill sets that are needed for future ads. And second part of it is how should departments prepare not only to ensure that they can identify and supply training for those skill sets, but how should departments proactively prepare to build their bench?

C (33:34)

Yeah, it's a tough one, Greg, because.

C (33:39)

You know, you have to have the personnel that want to, want to go forward and become athletic directors, so you have to search those out. You have to encourage, constantly encourage. But the turnover rate has been tremendous lately, and it seems I'm mentoring new ones every day. Every meeting there's a new ad, you know, and.

C (34:02)

You know, I'm not sure how to answer that, because the only thing I could do is encourage, constantly encourage. You know, just like the principal did to me back in 1970, 1980. He said, you have the potential. That's a good way to start if you know somebody in your department is going to school for administration. And by the way, I always encourage them not to go to their area of expertise. So if you're a health and phys Ed teacher, don't get your, don't get your master's in phys Ed, get your master's in supervision. And you could, you could be a department chair if you, if you, if that's the job you want, or you could be another type of administrator, a vp, an ad, whatever. And so it keeps more doors open and you wouldn't have to go back to school to get that additional certification. But I think encouraging those people that you see the potential.

C (35:05)

And constantly talking it up, constantly talking it up. I can't tell you how many conversations I would have just in my office where a coach would come in and we would just shoot the breeze. We talk about their game, we talk about their family, we talk about their future. And those kind of things I think will help to build that bench in the future.

A (35:25)

You know, what I really like on that, that you just touched on is as you're encouraging people to go back for advanced degrees, do it outside of just your general scope, you know, because I think one thing that's really important that you touched on is the ability to be, to have agility, I think is kind of the takeaway on that, is it'd be real easy, like, say, your health and science, and you go on, you go back and get that master, and you have now you've typecast yourself and you're not giving yourself as many opportunities. And I think that that's, that's a big takeaway for me just in terms of, like, Developing skills that are going to be beneficial for future ads because they're going to need to have the ability to pivot. Because the job has changed so much. Not over just the past five years, the past 10, 15, 30 years. It continues to evolve. And I think the big takeaway for me there is, you know, have the ability to adapt to changes that are taking place. Whether those changes be, you know, decisions made by local education boards or state laws or whatever it is, whatever may be impacting you in your day to day, but also changes that are taking place in technology. How do you utilize it? Make sure that you have the ability to understand and use it rather than just being so laser focused in one topic. Essentially, ads need to be a jack of all trades because there's so many different elements of what that job entails. So that's a big takeaway for me on that one.

C (37:00)

You know, it's funny, as you were, you were talking, I was thinking of another thing that's hurting the profession and that is back in the day. And I go, I go back because I've been around a while. You know, contracts used to reimburse people for going back to get their masters and education, those kind of things. Now they're either being more restrictive and they don't even have those kind of clauses in their contracts or you have to get a degree in your area of expertise.

C (37:31)

Or, or the reimbursement just isn't what it used to be. I mean, when I went for my master's, I had, I received state college reimbursement and anything above that, I received 75% and I went to Rutgers and so I got state. It was almost, it wasn't free, but it was almost pretty close to free. Not today. Not today. There's much more now. Of course it's easier because more online. I didn't have online. I was always had to drive down the Rutgers twice a week, twice a night, a week rather. Now you can do it all online, but the expense is probably being a little bit prohibitive as well.

B (38:15)

Yeah, true. Well, I will finish with a couple, couple of things here, John. One, the idea of an exit strategy I think is important, right? People are getting burned out in teaching jobs, getting that master's, getting that advanced degree and something else where you can step to a different kind of role I think is really important. And a lot of people don't think that way. You know, that's like playing chess versus playing checkers for some people. You have to think ahead. And what you're saying is Think ahead and plan ahead. And even if you never use it, you've got the ability to transition over to something like that. Right. Two, I would say, John, I can't believe how many new people you have to mentor. So you should ask for double from the conference. I'll make sure I tell everybody that. And three, really, like, final thoughts would kind of be like this. You know, as a varsity coach, you always were looking at your assistant coaches and trying to get them ready for a head coaching job. It's just kind of what you. At least the right mindset would be like. You kind of want to lose them. Right. The JV coach wants to lose their athletes to the varsity team. The varsity coach wants to lose their JV coach to varsity coaching positions. And I really appreciate what you've said because I look at it like you, as an ad, have wanted to lose your varsity coaches at times to become athletic directors, to influence more coaches and do things the right way. So I think it's a really cool mindset.

B (39:44)

Proud of you for the success that you've had in doing that and really appreciate you joining today. And happy birthday.

C (39:52)

Thank you so much. It was a pleasure being here. I enjoyed it.

A (39:56)

Yeah. Truly enjoyed the time today. John, Happy birthday. Congratulations as well. Now, now, remember, two cakes, one more. Lemon's telling you, two cakes.

A (40:07)

But we really appreciate you having to have the. Joining us today. It's been great picking your brain on this.

C (40:13)

Yeah. Don't forget the cakes are after the pasta.

A (40:19)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thanks again, John. And folks, if you liked what you heard today, make sure you follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from so you don't miss any new episodes. And with that said, from A.D. 360, I'm Greg Vandermeen.

B (40:34)

Scott Rosenberg. Thank you.

A (40:37)

Until next time, folks.

C (40:38)

Thank you very much.