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- [00:02]
A
Dive into the dynamic world of high school sports. Whether you're a seasoned athletic director, a newcomer to the field, or simply curious to learn more about this exciting profession, this podcast is your go to resource for inspiration, education and a deeper understanding of the game changing decisions that shape the world of high school athletics. Welcome back to AD360. I'm Greg Vandermayde and today's topic is one that many athletic directors know extremely well. With the regular season starting to wind down, many ads are looking forward to their senior nights for fall sports and honoring their seniors and how to do so in the best possible way. To get some insight from someone in the profession, we're joined today by my colleague and friend, Amanda Waters Nelson, athletic director at Del Norte High School in San Diego, California. Amanda, how are you doing today?
- [00:49]
B
I'm great. I'm great. Thanks for having me.
- [00:52]
A
We appreciate you having joining us today. So also, I'd definitely be remiss if I didn't also introduce our co host, Scott Rosenberg. Always excited to see you, excited for this conversation. How are we doing today, Scott?
- [01:05]
C
I'm good, man. What's up? Everything all right?
- [01:08]
A
Doing well on my end. You know, we're about to start hitting those, those fall playoffs, so things are about to get pretty hectic, I imagine, for a lot of, a lot of folks, not only on our end, but also in the ad world especially. Right.
- [01:19]
C
It's exciting times for sure. And Amanda, thanks for joining us. Kind of like, you know, this athletic director Samoro world thing. Amanda started that AD network over Covid and was so involved in that, and I used to listen in on a bunch of those. So it's really good to be connected with you on here. Thank you.
- [01:36]
B
Yeah, thanks for having me excited. Senior nights are always an adventure for fall sports.
- [01:45]
A
Well, I think that's a great segue. Why don't we just dive right in and start talking about it? So the first question I got for you is what does a typical senior night look for you look like for you? I'm sure it probably varies depending upon your, you know, season, sport, etc. But what are some of the key elements that make it special?
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B
You know, I think the biggest message is celebrating the seniors.
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D
Right.
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B
And I think the seniors want to thank their families, they want to thank their parents, they want to thank their coaches. And I know that club is a big thing now too, so we do allow club coaches to come in. If those kids have club coaches they've played for that have impacted their lives, it's all about creating an environment the kids feel really appreciated, but they can also show appreciation to the people that have kind of helped them get where they want to get to.
- [02:34]
D
Right.
- [02:34]
B
So for them, it's centered on a lot of what they want to do. Each sport's different based on the size of the team.
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D
Right.
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B
So some can be more intimate. You have your golf and your tennis, which can be more intimate because it's a smaller team. But then you have football.
- [02:48]
D
Right.
- [02:49]
B
And so you have football and volleyball and some of our bigger sports that, you know, volleyball does it at a game in front of everybody, which is great. And it's flowers and announcements. They do senior banners. Our football team this year did big, big like body body stickers and put on the back of the stadium. So that's kind of fun. This year it'll be fun because I actually get to be a senior mom. My son's a senior, so that'll be an interesting experience. Normally I'm just helping with logistics, but. So each sports really different. Really, really different.
- [03:31]
A
Well, I guess one thing since you have a senior this year and you're going to be partaking in it, so if anything doesn't go according to plan, do you just send yourself an email?
- [03:39]
B
Yeah. You know, it's always going to be my fault and that's okay. I kind of the job.
- [03:45]
C
Right.
- [03:46]
B
I coached softball last year. We had a great senior night. You know, we had walks to home plate and families got to bring their whole family. And we had a videographer there that kind of took some really fun videos of it. So every sport kind of does what they want to do to a point. And then of course you have some feedback that one sport does more than the other. And so that's a little bit tough at times too, but. But yeah, I will send myself an email if I'm unhappy.
- [04:16]
A
You know, one thing that I just took away from this that I think is, you know, a little bit more forward thinking. And I don't know if many ads necessarily engage in that, but I like the fact that you talk about, you know, the potential of other people other than just, you know, immediate family members talking a little bit about like the club element of it. Because I think that we definitely have to kind of talk about that elephant in the room, if you will. You know, the club piece plays a large role in many of these student athletes experiences. So I do like the fact that you're open to engaging in that and allowing them to be a part of it. I think that's a pretty cool piece to it.
- [04:49]
B
Yeah, you know, I think it's important that again, we celebrate the athletes and what's important to them. And, you know, our coaches see them three months of a year and their club coaches could see them the rest of the year. So just because we have a senior night that's celebrating families and all of that, if those coaches are really important to them, we want them to be a part of that.
- [05:08]
D
Right?
- [05:08]
B
We want them to be a part. You know, I have my own opinion on club that can be a podcast another day. But again, if they're impacting kids, we're all about impacting kids. So we'll get them and they can invite who they want to participate and celebrate them on those days.
- [05:28]
A
Scott, what are your thoughts on that?
- [05:30]
C
I love the idea of the club coaches. I mean, there was a time in my life when it was us versus them for sure. But it has to be a good relationship at this point. People have to work together. And the fact is, especially if kids are going to be like winding up, going to college and if you're talking about that in their bios and things, we all know that a lot of those coaches had a huge influence on that. And the other thing is just like going back to the beginning is just not underestimating how important this is to parents and families. Right. Like, again, being a young AD without kids and stuff like that, I am sure at times I underestimated how important a night like this was for a family. And you just can't because again, you're talking about 10, 12 years committed to a sport. And for most kids it's a culmination kind of thing. Right. Most kids aren't going to the next level. So this could be sort of it for that sport. And so you can't really sort of like underestimate it. And I mean, there again, there are so many ways. I know we'll talk about it going forward. Like, there's a lot of ways to approach senior nights. But if that's like the overarching mantra, it's got to be special and you got to make sure that you take it seriously. From that perspective, I think you're doing a good thing. I'll tell you one thing that I would say my one non negotiable, like when you were reading those bios was they had to be like serious in nature, if that makes sense. Sometimes kids, like, they would have the kids write their own bios and there'd be like all these inside jokes and stuff like that involved in it. And like, you know, the Kids on a field might understand it, but 90% of the people that were listening didn't understand that kind of stuff. So I was always like, you know, the one thing. Let's. Let's like, at least take your bio seriously when we read it. Everything else, you can kind of go from there.
- [07:24]
B
Well, I write it. I tell them this. I said, you know, write your bio like you'd write part of your college application. So imagine that that's going to be on the front of your Twitter and their college coaches are going to see it. What are you thankful for? Right, because that's what the parents want to hear. Like, they love jokes and all that, and you could do that at home. But for senior nights, especially if we're doing, like a lot of ours do videos, like I said before, right. We have a videographer that come out, and so we like to send those to the families so they have that keepsake for a long time, right? They can show their kids and their kids kids, and, you know, those matter again. A lot of those kids won't play again. And so how can we celebrate them with all of the stuff that they've done and the time they've put in during high school?
- [08:10]
C
Agreed. Greg, anything to add?
- [08:13]
A
I think those are great points. You know, I mean, ultimately, it is about the kids, you know, and then secondarily, obviously, the parent piece that you just touched on, Scott, I think think when you're a younger ad and you don't have kids of your own, you may not necessarily understand the magnitude of those nights and how special they are for those parents. So really kind of be. Really have that forefront of your mind as you're going through and kind of developing this, you know, and then those ads that do have kids, I'm sure you already understand the importance of it, and it's. It's ensuring that you're celebrating the kids along with their parents and whomever else may have had a significant impact in their playing experience. And I think also, too, Amanda, you brought up a great point that many of these student athletes, this might be their final hurrah. You know, like, they may not be going to the postseason. They may not be going and playing at the next level. So really make it a memorable evening for them so they have something to look back on, both families as well as the student athlete. They can look back on that years later and be like, wow, that was such a great experience. So fantastic points on all fronts.
- [09:14]
C
Love it. Amanda, how far in advance do you have to start thinking about these things as an athletic director.
- [09:20]
B
Oh, as soon as, like before the season even starts, when I have my first coaches meeting, like, okay, senior nights, pick your day. Normally it's the last home game of the year. Now we pick and choose sometimes because if it's a really tough opponent, we will change that a little bit. But again, you know, it's not really about who you're playing. It's about the experience. You know, we've had some tough ones where games have been canceled that were our senior nights that we had to make some adjustments, which again, upset parents. And that's not ever the memory we want for them.
- [09:53]
D
Right.
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B
So you really want to do a league game towards the end of the year that are already scheduled so that you don't have cancellations. That's happened a couple times in my career, so. So being smart, being thoughtful, being understanding, holidays, being understanding of long weekends, all of those types of things. So we can get the most attendance, right? So people aren't out of town or grandparents can fly in or come in, things like that.
- [10:25]
C
You know, one of the things going back to that Covid era that I thought about a lot and that we started doing and that we learned was do they have to be at the end of the season? It was so typically at the end. But if you remember, I'm sure you do, like, we were worried about playing that next game. Was that next game going to actually happen or was this season going to get canceled? So I remember a lot of ads moving those senior nights up to very early in the season. And it just made me think, like, there's so many approaches. But I don't necessarily think it's the worst idea if you wind up getting that game canceled on you. Well, guess what? Now you maybe have a little time to recover. So, yeah, just something else for people to think about.
- [11:10]
B
You know, I don't know that I like the early and here's why, right, like, because it's kind of their send off, right? Like this is their last hurrah to be able to, to. To thank their parents. And if they do that too early almost, it's not disingenuine, but it doesn't have as much impact as one of their last games they're ever going to play at the field that they're playing on, that they've been on. And you can adjust, obviously, as needed. Covid was a very different time, as we all know. But I personally always recommend doing it towards the end just because of that impact.
- [11:43]
D
Right.
- [11:44]
B
Like when your parents know your season's coming. It's very emotional as a parent, knowing your child may never play again and you've enjoyed and you spend all that time watching in clubs and weekends and late dinners and all the travel.
- [11:59]
D
Right.
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B
And now their season's coming to an end and you get to celebrate.
- [12:04]
D
Right.
- [12:05]
B
And so I think that's, that's kind of my take on that on the end. But again, you can adjust as long as you understand the impact of those things.
- [12:15]
C
Greg, any thoughts?
- [12:17]
A
I definitely like both grains of thought. Right. You know, because like one, you can look at it from the early perspective. And Scott, to your points, you know, there's so many unknowns that could take place that we learned four years ago or so. Right. And you're just like, my goodness, I want to make sure that we're able to get this in. I also see Amanda's point where it is truly that send off.
- [12:34]
C
Right.
- [12:35]
A
So I don't think that there is going to be a universal answer. It's going to be knowing your program in and out, also knowing the schedule. You don't want to have the juggernaut within your league be the final game. And like, everyone knows going into it, like, oh, man, this could really be a beating. You don't want that to be that. You don't want that to be the senior send off where, you know, it's, it's a run rule or, you know, you get a running clock because you're just getting pummeled. But it's senior night, so I think you have to really kind of approach it. One, knowing your campus community. Two, understanding the schedule and the strength of that schedule that you're going into it and obviously having a little bit of autonomy where if you need to shift and maybe move some things around, that's where the communication piece and developing those relationships within those sport programs really plays a key part. Because then if you do want to make a shift, like maybe a team's caught lightning in a bottle and you're like, man, that really shouldn't be our senior night. This could, this could not be a good memory for them. You have a little bit of autonomy to make some shifts. So certainly kind of playing the middle of the road, if you will, almost political answer, if you will. But I think there's, there's definitely value on, on both sides of that coin.
- [13:42]
C
I think it almost takes like as you're planning out your season. So maybe it's like, you know, ads are probably starting to think about next fall season, in the next few weeks and schedules and stuff and I mean, again, trying to think about being proactive. Heck, if you can get your senior nights sort of on the schedule. And again, you've got to get teams to maybe come at night or on a Saturday when it's a little bit easier for families and community to get there, it's good to get it on the calendar and say, listen, here's all our senior nights. Because now you're telling all the other parts of the school, like, maybe we shouldn't have a college planning night that night because we've got this on the calendar. Let them schedule around you. I can say that with a, like, very centric athletic director podcast here, but, you know, why not, like, get it on that schedule early?
- [14:32]
B
No, I agree, I agree. And, you know, then you have to look at too. You don't want to insult teams or motivate teams. You're playing either, right? So if you're playing the really good team and then you switch it to the game before all of a sudden they're really good because you just motivated them, you know, because you picked them as the senior night, so that's been a thing, too. So you have to really be careful. I like to set them early and just then people don't know why we choose the games rather than changing them. So. So that's hopefully the. That's the hope.
- [15:10]
C
Greg, you always worked at schools with great programs, but I will tell you, there were times when, like, my team was the senior night team. Like, they wanted us to do the tour around the conference. Like, they wanted to get the W. So if you're not, you know, if you're not good, they're like, hey, Scott, can you come senior night? I'm like, oh, yeah, you're the seventh AD to ask my team to come on senior night. Thanks. Love it.
- [15:30]
A
You know, I was fortunate to work in those good schools, but I'm also very much aware of where I played at collegiately. And I can honestly say there were many times when we were showing up to a venue, I'm like, wait, it's their senior night. It's like, oh, man, that's a smack in the face. So definitely, definitely good things to think of, you know, keeping with the theme of just kind of like strategies and understanding how you're going to go about this. Amanda, what are some of the strategies that you have used in the past to really engage families, campus communities, to be a part of this celebration?
- [16:05]
B
Well, you know, I think that it's got to be head coach driven. Those parents know the head coaches right So I work with the head coaches, and we really talk about what does everyone want. Normally, teams have team moms that communicate with everybody on the team, and it seems to be getting bigger and bigger senior nights. But again, you know, and it's kind of tougher head coaches because they're trying to focus on the game. Like, I know last year it was really tough for me because I hadn't been a head coach in a minute. And so senior night was just so overwhelming that our girls were crying and everybody was upset. So it made for a rough game for us.
- [16:50]
D
Right.
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B
But so, you know, I think you have to be very open and honest with your coach, and you have to let them know. Yes, absolutely. Parents get opinions, kid gets. Kids get opinions. But you do need to understand it's within the realm of a game right now. Some of our teams choose to do it after games, and then that emotional piece is not there until after the game. But then some teams choose to do it before because they want all the fans there. So it's kind of a. You have to know your crowd, you have to know your community, you have to know your team, because I can tell you I probably would have done it after the game had I known for sure. But so you have to look at those. Logistically.
- [17:39]
A
I think that's definitely a good way of definitely of addressing that. Right. You have to have a pulse of not only the program itself, but also those that are going to be involved. I think it's probably kind of Almost a catch 22 in the scenarios where you're doing it after the game because you may have high emotions because, hey, we just won, everything's great, everyone's happy. Or you may have some frowns in all the photos because they just lost on senior night. So you got to definitely try and plan accordingly for that one. But certainly there's the difficulties and intricacies of getting the involvement of the community, the campus community, as well as the families. Do you see any difficulties? I know you had mentioned previously how you kind of reach out to some of the club coaches in certain scenarios. Are they pretty open and willing to attend those, or is it more difficult to get them just due to timing?
- [18:29]
B
No, I mean, everybody we've invited has come. That's never really been an issue. Soccer and softball are probably the two big ones. Baseball is another one. So everybody's been really open to coming and excited that they were invited, you know, which I think has helped bridge that gap between high school and club a little bit, knowing that we're not fighting Them we appreciate the fact that they've spent so much time with those athletes.
- [18:57]
D
Right.
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B
And so I think that's helped bridge that gap.
- [19:03]
A
Definitely. Great to hear. Scott, what are your thoughts?
- [19:05]
C
Yeah, I mean listen, the communication piece, I like how Amanda said like a lot of it has to do with the coaches. Sometimes they have the better connections or many times or most times maybe they keep alumni lists, maybe they want to get some alumni back so they, they can reach out to that kind of group. I think social media obviously is a great way to communicate these things. I think if you've got some friendly people at the regular media press who you can lean on especially for maybe some of those lower level sports and say, hey, like could you come out and maybe cover the senior night or a little bit for this sport? Even though I know you're coming for these couple and that's a given. I think that, that a lot of schools have internal like media classes that can come and film and kind of make it up a big deal. And if you're ever going to do a student produced live stream, maybe you do it on a game like that and they cover the opening ceremony and even live streaming the event. Right. Like you don't want people to not be there, but you do want to have people who can't be there have a part of it. So like set up that live stream a little bit early. If you're going to be doing it beforehand, all those things become important. I have a question completely off script. So let's start us out. What do you talk to your coaches about in terms of playing time for seniors on senior night? Like what does that look like?
- [20:32]
B
Well, here's what I will say and I know it, back in the day when we used to play seniors would start on senior night. And I try very hard to start the seniors on senior night. However, that doesn't always happen.
- [20:46]
D
Right.
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B
And so, but the option, the, the outcome is always to at least try to get them in the game. They may not start, but at least try to get them some time on the field or time time on the court so that they can be seen a little bit playing on their last senior night. Now the expectation is never that we don't want seniors to play. However, if you're in, let's, let's use football as an example, right. Who may have 37 seniors. I don't know how you get all of them in.
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D
Right.
- [21:17]
B
So I think trying the best, trying the best you can, hoping you have an opponent that maybe you can go up enough that you can get everybody in that you need. Because what you don't want to do is, you know, you don't want to lose if you. If you can help it, but you also want to help celebrate those seniors. So it's a very fine line. I have had emails where seniors have not played, and that's tough because you want to see them out there. So the idea is that every senior will play, but I'm not a believer that all seniors have to start. That's not what I believe in. Again, I think that's a spot you earn. You don't just get things because you're a senior. However, I do think you deserve at least a moment, right. That you get during that game, if possible, to be able to do that one last time.
- [22:13]
C
Great.
- [22:13]
A
You feel like you kind of have to coach that up a little bit sometimes with some of your coaches, maybe the younger coaches that are newer to the profession and having them have an understanding of that, because obviously a single play doesn't make or break a game. But in the grand scheme of things, if you have multiple single plays and you have people that are not in the right position, etc. You don't want to ultimately cost the team for a celebration in. In a sports mind, right? And obviously from a parent's perspective, they want to be able to see their. Their daughters or sons taking place. Do you feel like that's a little bit of kind of your. Your preseason, the meetings with coaches and like, hey, what's your strategy going into this? You know, obviously we're way far out from senior night, but just kind of planting this seed in advance, kind of. What are you thinking about doing? Is that the conversation that you typically will have with coach?
- [23:03]
B
Absolutely. And. And I think to have that with parents and seniors, you know, like, I. They can't go in blindly, I can tell you that. You know, if seniors are thinking, yes, we automatically start because it's senior night. You know, I can take my season. Last year I had nine seniors, and, you know, I only have nine positions.
- [23:23]
D
Right.
- [23:24]
B
So seven of them started and the other two played at some point during the game. But again, that's. You have to have conversations with the parents and the kids. They have to know the expectations going in so they're not disappointed because that's definitely not what we want.
- [23:43]
A
I think that's a great way of kind of framing it. Set the expectations early so everyone involved has an understanding of what could potentially transpire on senior leaders. Scott, what do you think?
- [23:54]
B
Communication is super important, right? Like Communication is important regardless, all the way throughout the season. Anytime it's been a really big issue, it's because of communication.
- [24:06]
A
Absolutely.
- [24:07]
C
We talk about that all the time on the podcast. Right. It's probably like the number one thing we can say to athletic directors. Communicate over, communicate. Coaches, communicate over, communicate still always. You know, there's times when you're going to be criticized, but they can't criticize you for that part. At least if you're. If you're. If that's your mantra. Yeah, Greg, listen, it's a no win situation. At times. You may have more than the number of seniors than starting positions on a specific team. You may be in a sport where, like, you get eight regular season games, like a football, and it's hard to put kids out there that, you know, create like a hole in the lineup. That's why maybe playing in the games against the right kind of teams, if you can do that, can be helpful. Listen, I was criticized at times when I started seniors as a coach, but I didn't leave them in long enough. Then I got that back from parents. Well, you only left my kid in for seven minutes. She only touched the ball twice. I'm like, didn't have to play at all. But like, so that's the whole point, right? You. There's just no perfect way to do it. But if you communicate, if you set the tone early and you do the best you can, that's all you can do.
- [25:25]
B
Yep, I agree.
- [25:29]
C
All right, thanks for letting me go off script there. How about lower profile sports, right? Like, we know that some of these bigger sports, you mentioned them before with bigger crowds. Like, how do things change when it's a sport that doesn't get as much recognition in general?
- [25:47]
B
Well, we give them options, right? Like if they want to come and get recognized at a football game, it would be earlier in the year if they want to come get recognized at volleyball games or whatever, basketball games, they have options, right? Like, a lot of them choose to do the intimate. They like that. They like it at their own facility. Like tennis likes to do it at their own facility. But I always give options, right? Like, I don't want them to feel like they have to do it in front of 10 people when they can do it in front of 5,000. But most of our lower level sports don't really want to be in front of 5,000 people. I mean, some of them do and maybe their parents do, but so I give them options, right? And if a coach reaches out and says, we'd like to Do a senior night at a football game, we oblige. Whether it's between quarters or halftime or before the game or after the game. We definitely like to give them options.
- [26:47]
C
That's pretty cool. I like that a lot.
- [26:50]
A
I like that idea, too, because then you're giving them the opportunity to, if they want to have that larger crowd, to get recognized. Because some of sports, to your point, Amanda, you know, it might just be location of where they're playing. You know, it's. It's off site. It's not where their. Their colleagues, you know, their. Their fellow students are going to be attending. Like, sport that comes to mind to me is like a cross country team or, you know, many times folks may not have a pool or tennis courts on campus. You know, various fields may not be on campus. And you're providing that opportunity for them to be recognized in front of their peers. I think that's a really cool way to approach it. I like that a lot.
- [27:26]
B
Well, in golf, too, right? So golf's never on campus unless you have a golf course on your campus, which I don't know that anybody actually does. But if you do, maybe in Florida, I don't know. But they definitely have the opportunity to come on campus and be recognized in front of their peers, for sure.
- [27:45]
A
I like that a lot. All right, so let's shift gears a little bit and let's think about just some common logistical challenges that you face when you're trying to execute a senior night. What are some of the things that you need to make sure that you're planning for in advance, some of the things that might go wrong, you know, that you can try and troubleshoot well before the event takes place. Just talk us through a couple of the logistical challenges that you have seen throughout your career and how you've kind of addressed them.
- [28:18]
B
Well, I think part of it is making sure the dates are where they need to be.
- [28:22]
D
Right.
- [28:22]
B
So number one, you don't want five senior nights on the same night. So you want to kind of spread it out so that, you know, our student section can go and support on the senior nights like our asb, which they try to definitely do. I think that, again, communication.
- [28:38]
D
Right.
- [28:38]
B
So you have some coaches that I may have five conversations with, but still haven't figured out what their senior night is, you know, three weeks before the season ends. So that's always a logistic. And I just tell them, like, if you don't plan it, then we'll just pick a day. I think second is sometimes you have parents that don't really want to step up.
- [28:55]
D
Right.
- [28:56]
B
Maybe they don't want to be the senior night person and they don't want to put all that work in.
- [29:00]
D
Right.
- [29:01]
B
So giving options. Here are some vendors that you can use for food. Here are some areas you can use on campus. Here are some options for you. Like for us, it's a coaching handbook that has a bunch of options for senior nights and what you can do and what I recommend you not do. You know, like my thing is this. You can never really go too big, but understanding that if you do, other teams may follow. You know, I mean, we've had. And again, I like the videographer at the senior nights. Now I can't require teams to have that. And so if teams can't afford it, we can always try to figure it out and pitch in. We have a guy we strictly use a lot. I'm a big social media person, as you know, Greg. I love social media. But so that's important, right? Making sure that they're recognized that way. So setting up the videographer early, setting up, you know, how it's going to work early, making sure the parents know, making sure things are ordered early enough. Those are really the biggest things.
- [30:10]
C
Amanda, you were talking about like going too big and maybe other programs following suit. You even have the problem of your own program. You, you're going to have a senior class budget juniors who watched senior night the night before. And if you want to try and walk that backwards in the next year, there's going to be a lot of friction, right? Those parents were like, wait, when my kid's a senior, now we're going to take a step back. So even there, like there's a little bit of danger going too big I think at times. Because there's now an expectation just even within your own program.
- [30:46]
B
Absolutely. Well. And I think again, some ads put restrictions, right? Like some ads will say you can have one flower you can have. But here's, I've done that. We've had, I've been at schools in the past that have done that to make it universal. That's really hard because again, it's not about rules and it's not about that for this night. It's one night. If you have a three month season, you're taking one night to celebrate your seniors. I get it. But pick and choose your battles. That would be my advice.
- [31:22]
C
And I think that's a good point too.
- [31:24]
A
Like when you're looking at it from that cookie cutter approach, you're not going to have that because every Sport, every team, every program is going to have different things that, one, that they value, and two, in terms of just the culture of that program itself. I mean, former football guy, I don't think I would have cared if I had a dozen flowers or no flowers. Right? You know, like, that's. That's not something that crosses their mind. However, other sports, that may be something that's important to them, you know, so taking that into consideration as you're planning it, I think one thing, too, and definitely let me know your thoughts on this, Amanda. You got to talk to them a little bit about budget constraints too, you know, because you can go big, but maybe your budget's huge this year and next year, maybe you don't have as high a participation and you don't have the same level of funds or your fundraising didn't go as well as it did years prior. So that's probably something you got to think about as well, right?
- [32:19]
B
Yeah, well. And I think, again, communication, right? Saying, okay, senior parents, this is how much this is going to cost for senior night, right? And so understanding when those budgets are set, you know, if you want to do abcd, this is how much it's.
- [32:33]
D
Going to be, right?
- [32:34]
B
And so then the parents can kind of decide, yes, we want to pay or no, we don't, then you deal with, maybe some parents will pay and some parents won't. But usually what I have seen, again, the difference between public and private, we can't make anybody pay for anything, right? So athletics at the high school, at the public school level, has to be. Have to be free. So again, if you're having those senior nights and they're very elaborate, being communicative with those parents and saying, look, if you really want A, B, C, D, this is how much it's going to be and who's in, right? So. And at the very least, you're going to at least celebrate them, you know, so you can say, hey, here's if you don't want to do abc and D, here's how we can celebrate them so they at least feel celebrated, right? And as an athletic department, we try to always have some type of funds that can help if teams don't have any of those abilities. Like, again, we have a really good relationship with our videographer. We have a team or two that can't afford him. We figure that out with him and he will go do that anyway, right? So again, it's the building relationships piece of getting people to understand, like, we're going to use you a lot. But there's going to be times that I may need to ask you to do stuff without really getting paid. But if you build those relationship, it usually works.
- [33:59]
A
I really like the idea too, like within your handbook of kind of giving them lack of a better term, almost like turnkey options of like, hey, if you're not really sure what to do, it's a proactive approach on your end, right. You're trying to snuff out fires before they, they really start to, to take flight on you. And I think that's, that's a big takeaway is you're going to have some programs that are just not going to be planning in advance and you should probably have something on the back burner to provide them. Like, hey, I'm going to help bail you out. Here's what I recommend. You don't have to do this, but I've definitely put together some options for you to try and maybe help a coach that's absent minded about that. Save a little bit of face and they can have things ready to roll for their seniors and still have that celebration.
- [34:43]
B
Never, you never have coaches absent mind. Yes. Having a backup plan is helpful and you know, again, being proactive rather than reactive. And I think that's the biggest key to being an AD in general. You have to be proactive if you're reactive now, there's times where you have to be reactive, but you have to be proactive to get ahead of things.
- [35:08]
C
Playing chess, not checkers, as they say.
- [35:11]
B
Yes, yes, no doubt.
- [35:13]
C
Right.
- [35:14]
B
100.
- [35:15]
C
All right. We covered a few of the things that we were going to ask you within these other conversations. So I'm just going to steal Greg's question if that's, if that's okay. Thanks, Greg. Do you, both of you like, is there one or two memorable traditions type of senior nights that you've seen over all these years and all your experiences in schools that like completely stand out that you could tell an athletic director right now or a coach listening like this was a pretty cool approach.
- [35:44]
B
Do you want to go first, Greg?
- [35:47]
A
I'll defer to you. You're our guest.
- [35:50]
B
I would have to say football in the way that they do up their senior night. I think having the parents meet at the 50 yard line, giving the flowers, giving the speech, giving the pictures, I think that's always been the most memorable that I've seen. It does take some time. But you know, last year we had a lot of seniors and you see a lot of tears but some really good pictures and that's probably one of the best I've seen for sure.
- [36:21]
A
You know, from my personal experience, I'll definitely echo what Amanda said from a football background. That was always cool. Not only just watching it as an ad, watching it as a former coach, being a part of it as a player. Certainly memorable. You know, I, to this day still remember my high school senior night, standing yards away from my mom and dad, walking up with the flowers, being able to have that last moment, if you will, in our stadium. Certainly extremely memorable. I've seen other ones too though, like some of the, some of the court sports I really like in terms of basketball. You know, I've seen some girls basketball programs where they're doing big elaborate introductions of the seniors over the PA and they have some light shows involved, which is really cool because it makes it that type of experience for them. Each sport has had some uniqueness to it. I think the ones that are a little bit more difficult to try and plan those things out though, are going to be your off campus sports. Right. You know, going back to a managed point for your golf, your cross countries where you're not going to have the electrical components to be able to do a lot of those things. And that's where I really like when you had stated earlier about having them given the option of if you'd like to participate on one of these events where there's a larger crowd, I think that's really great. So, well, and you, how about you, Scott?
- [37:34]
B
You could do this. Sorry, you could do the Michael Jordan announcements too, like where they're like, you know, from nor, you know, so that's really fun.
- [37:41]
D
Right?
- [37:42]
B
So. And you're right, the indoor sports have been good too. Basketball, volleyball, things like that. I've seen some really cool things too. But bringing those other teams in and giving that option is, is helpful for sure.
- [37:56]
C
I love that. You know, for me it wasn't as much about like the sport, it was the approach. So athletic director, she was a coach at the time named Colleen Souffle. She's at Mount Olive High School right now here in New Jersey. Used to be a girls soccer coach in Randolph and she had the kids invite their favorite teacher of their from their four years to their senior night. And she would have the teacher come out in their like away jersey, walk out with them and you know, like honor the teachers at the same time as they were honoring their parents because they made a difference in their lives too. So I just thought that was like a pretty cool approach. You could do that with every single sport. You could do that with Some sports. But just like that thought process for me made it pretty special. So I thought that was neat.
- [38:46]
B
I love that. It also brings the educational piece into educational based athletics, which is great.
- [38:54]
C
How about that?
- [38:55]
B
How about that?
- [38:55]
A
I completely agree. I agree completely with that. Because now you're getting the full scope of the campus community. Right. And those teachers that have been playing such a large role in these student athletes lives also have the opportunity to celebrate those seniors and thank them for their contributions, not only on the field, but what they've done within their classroom. So I think that's a great point and a good takeaway, Scott.
- [39:20]
B
Yeah, well, I know we do teacher nights too, where they do that, where kids give jerseys. I was lucky I got one last year from one of our basketball kids because I teach one class, which is exciting. But that's exciting. That's fun, right? It's teachers that may not necessarily come to games. And again, that's another podcast is teachers coming to games. But I highly recognize when any teachers come to games.
- [39:45]
D
Right.
- [39:45]
B
Like supporting our nighthawks. And that's really important because those kids love to see them out there.
- [39:53]
C
That's a good one. Amanda. Like, totally off topic, but I. I like handwritten notes. So like I had stationary made up and like if a teacher would come to a game that day and I saw that, like they would have a note like in their mailbox the next day, like a handwritten one, just like, hey, from the athletic department at my school and me. Thank you. Like, that was cool to see you there.
- [40:17]
B
I love that. Yeah, I did a. I did a Instagram video where they laughed and they were dancing. And so that was a lot of comments on that. Like, that's my teacher, you know, because everybody thinks teachers sprout out of the ground in the morning and then go back in at night. That they're not actually people. So it's cool to see them in that different environment.
- [40:38]
C
It is.
- [40:40]
A
I. You definitely have to hire a high quality choreographer for me to be able to do some dancing for you.
- [40:46]
B
I don't know.
- [40:47]
C
That's called a double. That's a. That's like. What do you. That's the. Another person in there for you.
- [40:52]
B
G. It's like Hitch. It's like hitch. Stay at 90 degrees. Go back and forth. You're good. You're good.
- [41:00]
A
Oh, that's great. Well, I think that we've covered quite a bit. I think one of the best things that we could probably close on. I know we've gone over a lot of different elements as it relates to senior nights. If you were to think of just some quick hitter bullet points to give to athletic directors that are looking to create a meaningful experience for their students and their families, what, what would you kind of highlight in some of those points?
- [41:26]
B
You know, planning. Planning and communication.
- [41:29]
D
Right.
- [41:29]
B
You have to give coaches options. Some coaches don't know what they're doing on it, and that's okay. Especially your new ones. And some of your older coaches may be kind of setting their ways and kind of helping them understand that. Look, things have changed a little bit, right? Like Covid's changed a lot of people. I used to say, you know, that girls need to feel good to play well and that boys need to play well to feel good. And I think that's actually the same now for girls and boys. They all need to feel good to play well.
- [41:58]
D
Right.
- [41:59]
B
So again, I think that you, you really need to plan. You have to have good communication, even if that means you have to communicate with the team parent to be able to help with some logistics, make sure they have the facilities they need and the ideas that they need, and then helping with budgeting, you know, you have to make sure that the parents and you have to communicate. Everybody feels like they have to hide what they spend and how they spend it, but you don't be very transparent. Show them what it is. Right. So they don't wonder why you're asking for $200 a person for senior night as a donation if. If they don't know where it goes.
- [42:37]
D
Right.
- [42:37]
B
So I mean, if they know where it goes, it's a lot easier for a parent to say, oh, I totally get it. Here, here you go. Rather than, I don't even know where this money goes.
- [42:46]
D
Right.
- [42:46]
B
And so gone are the days where you can't be transparent. You have to be transparent.
- [42:53]
A
I think that's a big takeaway right there. Is just transparent making sure. Obviously, you know, Scott and I, we always preach communication to ensure that everyone involved has understanding and expectations are set. I like the piece of transparency, making sure that the families involved understand what this is going towards, how the event's going to play out. So they have a visualization of what to expect that evening. And right there you're going to be able to prevent numerous phone calls and emails because they weren't alerted about this in advance. I don't really like that. Scott, what about your thoughts?
- [43:35]
C
Families first. Right. Keeping that in mind first is an incredibly important night. So, like that'd be my 1 add additional here thing, I would say.
- [43:46]
A
Fantastic. Well Folks, I think this is going to wrap this episode. Amanda, can't thank you enough. Really appreciate your time. Always great catching up with you. I'm sure some ads are going to find some inspiration from this conversation that we had to make their senior nights a little bit more memorable for their student athletes and families. Really can't thank you enough for joining us today.
- [44:04]
B
Well, thank you guys for having me. It's always a pleasure. Good to see you both again. The ad community seems to be a lot smaller than I ever thought it was. But no, Greg, I had the pleasure of working with you and Scott. You know, I know that you guys were on the call and years ago. So I'm just happy I can help anything you guys need. And again, all those, you know what I have to say I will do an ad to all of the new ads and all the younger ads that are posting on social media that are getting themselves out there, that are helping their communities. I love seeing that. I don't know if you guys remember the day where that really didn't happen, right? So that makes me very happy. I, I love celebrating ads and new ads that are, that are killing it. So keep doing what you're doing.
- [44:53]
A
Appreciate you a ton, Amanda. Always great catching up. Well, if you liked what you heard today, stay tuned for future episodes. Make sure you follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast from so you don't miss any new episodes. In closing from A.D. 360, I'm Greg Vandermayth.
- [45:09]
C
Scott Rosenberg. Thanks, Amanda.
- [45:11]
B
Thank you guys.
- [45:11]
A
Till next time, folks.