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- [00:02]
A
Dive into the dynamic world of high school sports. Whether you're a seasoned athletic director, a newcomer to the field, or simply curious to learn more about this exciting profession, this podcast is your go to resource for inspiration, education and a deeper understanding of the game changing decisions that shape the world of high school athletics. Welcome back to AD360. I'm Greg Vandermayden and as always, I'm joined with my co host, Scott Rosenberg. Today we're going to take a dive into something that's growing in importance for athletic directors throughout the country and their departments, and that's branding. Pretty excited about this one. Scott, what are your thoughts?
- [00:40]
B
Good to be here. Excited for Leo, who's going to be our guest. Listen, branding is so important. We've talked about it before, its identity, it's a whole bunch of things and there are so many different ways to approach it. So I'm really interested to hear from Leo how they're doing it at such a big time school out there in California and maybe even compare and contrast to how we do it to some of the smaller schools here in New Jersey.
- [01:05]
A
Absolutely. And as Scott mentioned, we have a special guest joining us today, and that is Leo Lopos of De La Salle in Concord, California. This is a program that's really built up one of the most recognizable brands in high school athletics. We're going to dive in today, pick his brain a little bit, see how school athletic directors can look to build authentic and powerful brands that not only resonate with students and families, but also the broader community. Leo, first and foremost, thanks for joining us today. And how are you doing?
- [01:35]
C
How's it going? You know, appreciate you guys having me on here. Happy to help the conversation and look forward doing this podcast with you guys.
- [01:45]
A
Appreciate you joining us today. Well, gentlemen, if it's okay with you, I think we just kind of dive right in and start talking through this topic and have a good conversation about it. So, Leo, what we're going to start with is something that I found fascinating. You know, the idea of branding creating that emotional connection at De La Salle. You know, you've seen that brand from the in essentially almost from the inception. You've been there quite some time now. And really kind of, how does that create a sense of pride and belonging for your current students, your alumni base, and then even just fans that are local as well as national?
- [02:20]
C
I mean, so for us, to your point, and I appreciate the recognition, it definitely has been a work in progress. I can say that I graduated in 94 and returned to work in the 1999, 2000. So I've definitely had whatever that is almost three and a half decades now of watching us grow. So it's been an evolution. I would say that we are average at best, even in our branding. You know, there are ways that we could get better to this minute, and there are ways that we're pretty good. But really what we've focused on, I think, over the years is just kind of telling people who we are and how we want to be and how we want to be known. Obviously, there's a lot of different conversations of the why and the who and. And how, but I. I feel like we've taken the walk. Walk we really was really crawl for in the beginning and then walk. And I don't even think we're really running. We're trying to get in the running phase. We're mindful of what we want to be and who we want to be and how we want to do it. So that's probably as to. As to why we might be not being warp speed. The other thing, too is I think when you. When you. When you talk about branding and you really want to be a true educational athletic community, you kind of have to be smart about your moves. It's really hard to unwind certain things. Things have grown organically. Some things have been direct in terms of how we do things. So I don't. I also think that's not really a one. One size fits all. I think every school is going to have some sort of pattern. We've been really blessed to have a really successful athletic program, so that helps. You know, there's been a lot of some things that we just, like, just land. Plymouth Rock literally landed on us versus us landing on Plymouth Rock. In terms of getting stuff done. Um, the opportunities have been presented to us. We've taken advantage of, and some of them, they were like, really direct and obvious, and some of them were, oh, crap, this one just worked and we didn't really have to do. Do much. Um, but yeah, there's a lot of different aspects I'm happy to hopefully that kind of just lets you know. And I'm really wherever the direction of the conversation wants to go. I'm really ready to help you guys out and kind of give you my 10 cents. But I. You know, from social media to bookstore to website to apps to this to that, you know, there's just a lot of different ways to do it. And that's where I think every school starts at a different point, and every school also has different End goals. So hopefully my Dell Cell perspective can help this conversation and others learn for what we did.
- [04:50]
A
Well, appreciate that. I really like the mindful element of it. You know, like, you can't just kind of haphazardly go into developing a brand, and it doesn't just happen by wins and losses. There has to be some thought into it. And I like all the elements that you talked about. You know, there's going to be different verticals in which you want to approach your branding. So I think this is going to be a pretty good conversation. Very insightful. For those that are currently, you know, looking to. To build their brand or ones that have existing brands they're looking to build upon it. So should be a pretty fun conversation today.
- [05:20]
C
Got it. Yeah. All right. I'm actually excited. It's a good topic.
- [05:25]
B
I love the. The growth mindset, too. I think you guys do a pretty darn good job of what you're doing, but just the fact that you feel like you can still grow in different areas is what we would preach to our kids as well. Right. There's always room to improve. So I love that mindset. Let's get into a few specifics. Let's talk about from the visual side. So from the visual side of a brand, like logos, colors, things of that nature, when someone sees a De La Salle jersey, what do you want them to immediately think and feel?
- [05:59]
C
Yeah, well, that's actually very interesting. You say that because. Well, I'll just go with this. To start, number one, we have a style guide, which I think is imperative. Nothing against schools that have 72 brands, but it's. It's hard to control. To control the message when there's different messages going out there that some may or may not be what the school actually wants or doesn't want. So I think. I don't remember how many years now, but definitely at least 10. Closer to 15, probably. We sat down, created our style guide. Our first iteration, it's been morphed. It's been. We had to take existing logos that some people thought were cool. You know, like, here's a great example. The Michigan State Spartan Head is different than the Dale South Spartan Head. People don't necessarily think that or know that, but I could. If I showed you two versions, you'd say, okay, I see why they're different. So I do think that if every school is truly into branding and messaging, they're going to have to create a style guide. Because, you know, as Greg knows, you work in athletics, you get a new tennis coach, you Get a new golf coach. They don't necessarily know they go online. Especially in this day and age, I imagine it's easy to buy, easy to purchase and create something somewhere. But that being said, like, number one, we do have we to the point about how I think we're okay. We don't really have a lot of our message is pretty much this Spartan Head. We have a couple different iterations. There's some things that are athletic or some things that are official, you know, letterhead for schools. And so I think number number one, the message that we. The first message is that this is who we are. We're. We're kind of basic, I think is our message. Right. We don't have like, there's not like an arrow or anything like that going through there. There's not a cross that could probably be there. We really toned it down that something that's like universal and toned down. I think that's kind of. I mean, I don't know what Greg would say because he's obviously worked at some of our competitor schools in modern day and you've seen different schools. I think it just like everywhere we go, people kind of know Del solid equals tradition equals consistency equals the different pillars that people know of us, that we stand for. And I think that's where that's probably what it would say. I don't now because there's some brands out there could, could. Could this. We have a red, white and blue version of the Spartan Head. You know, we have some different things, but I do think people understand that's like, okay, that's just Dale Sell. Discipline, tradition, work hard, excellence. I would use the word boring. You know what I mean? Like, honestly, like, we don't have camo jerseys necessarily where I think sometimes we're on the fence, you know, do we have three sets of unis? I mean, but I think for us, I mean, the, like, you can add Del Sal around that Spartan head. You can add the words brotherhood, but it's fairly, fairly easy to manage. And I think what it does, the message is, here's who Del Sal is. Here's what we stand for. You know, of course we have a pink out during October, right? Of course we might have like right now we have a 60th campaign. But even if you're to ask me Right now, our 60th campaign is like pretty boring, you know, like it's times New Roman and it's. And it is what it is, but it's the same, right? So I do think it screams team, it screams Community. It screams brotherhood. It screams some of those things. I would bet that that's what people think. Our students and I would bet that's what our alum think. And I think that's. I don't want to speak for everyone because I can't, but I know that's what we want to promote. We don't want a different Dale South Spartan head on every year on the jersey. It's kind of like, yeah, we might evolve. I think you'd be foolish. I think I mentioned earlier we were in that crawl walk sort of stage and we've evolved. I would think it'd be. You'd be naive to say never and you be naive not to listen to new ideas. So I know that along the way we've been open to that. If you go to our bookstore, there's a lot of iterations, and at one point in time, we didn't really use black as our. As a color with our branding, you know, but now we do. Like, I think this is outlined in black and on this one. Right. So it's, you know, we've evolved. And so I, you know, even with, with our, with our Nike partnership, even Gatorade partnership, I know that they're very sensitive to how we function. We. We just did a rivalry series game. You just mentioned Greg earlier about it. We played Sarah, and It's a local NorCal rivalry and Nike's created some T shirts. It literally is just a Spartan head on our chest. On the back. It was a very subtle swoosh and a very subtle NFL rivalries deal. So that's kind of where we're at. You know, I don't know if that helps answer that question, Scott, but I think it's. That's kind of on that topic. That's where we're at. Yeah.
- [10:30]
B
I mean, listen, it's a great answer. I think it's amazing that you guys have that long tradition. I think it's amazing that if your community, as widespread as it is, would be able to say the same thing to us about what does it mean to you? And it sounds like you believe they would. That's special. I love the idea, personally. Like, old school, right? Classic, traditional, not too flashy. There are some schools who feel like they need to be that, and that's okay, too. But knowing who you are is so important. Listen, a style guide is something that I think a lot of high schools across America lack. And so if you're there and we work with schools that absolutely have style guides, but I am always so impressed If I ask an ad, hey, I need your logo or I need your school colors for to do a website for you, something like that. And they just send me their style guide. I'm like, this is so smart. It's so perfect. It sets the tone and it also, again, it's very clear to probably your community and even your coaches, right, that this is who we are and this is the way you have to behave and this is what we expect. I think that's fantastic. What about you, G?
- [11:50]
A
You know, I really love the style God piece and I also think, Leo, I've known you for some years, you're being pretty modest on it. The Spartan head is very much recognizable. That's a great traditional logo that people know. The part that I really had a good takeaway from, not only from the style guide piece because that's just great for new coaches coming into the program, giving them some parameters, some guardrails. This is how we present things. This is what we want it to look like. You have uniformity there, you know, and it becomes consistent. But also too like when you have something where you're taking that simplistic approach. The two things that come to mind for me, being a West coast guy, you have Oregon and you have USC. You have the traditional logos that everyone knows what USC's logo is. Even if you're a non sports fan, you have an idea of what USC is and then you have kind of like the flashier, ever changing organ. There's different approaches. That's kind of my takeaway from it too is like as you're going to develop your brand, you need to early on decide are we going to be traditionalistic and have a constant presence and view that is just the standard or are we going to be ever evolving and you know, we're going to have iterations and changes. The style guide piece though really stuck out to me. That was something that we incorporated and it was something that we had to stay on top of free frequently because you would have coaches that wanted to put in a shade that's not within the parameters or use a logo that's now been outdated and we're not utilizing it anymore. So there is the element of as an athletic director, you do have to stay on top of it and it has to be something that you're somewhat policing too because you want it to be consistent with your brand. So very good points and appreciate the insight there. And I honestly think too, what you were touching on really segues great into the next next question that I had was, you Know, we've seen that the research, the research shows that consistency in a brand is really beneficial for fans. Right. So how do you go about maintaining that visual messaging consistency across your touch points? At De La Salle, you touched on the, the style guide, but there's different elements of media too. You know, whether it be websites, social media. Do you kind of have a standardized practice there for your coaches and how they're going to be utilizing the brand and ensuring that it is remaining consistent?
- [14:05]
C
Yeah, I think so. Derek Brown, our associate athletic director, he's a calm major and our head soccer coach. So he kind of has, you know, he understands that what's going on out there. Number one, I think we've done a pretty good job on social media in terms of knowing what we want to post and when not to post. We're very cautious of that. We kind of have internal guardrails. We talk about what we want to communicate, what we want to message to the. To the outward facing. I think for us having an app, having our website for athletics definitely helps us control the messaging because a lot of it can be directed to one spot. There's not, you know, it sounds very academic but. And simple. But really I think it's key to have things funnel one direction for us. Like we have our, you know, about 15 years ago, it's actually still. My folder in my files is called the DLS Network. I wanted to create, create flag of order. Some just media platforms and back then social media wasn't even a thing, you know what I mean? But like at that time it was like, hey, let's get on the radio, let's get on tv, let's do all these different things. But we under Derek's like watch. We have between our own podcast, between our own communication on social, between our app and all that stuff. That's how we're leading a consistency. There's not a lot of rogue sort of publications. Now again, I can argue in some cases we're kind of boring, you know what I mean? And we're very blessed to have someone who has the tools. We look to create work with our yearbook. We look to work with our advancement team, obviously our partners with between Nike and Gatorade and others along the way where everything's trying to keep it manageable too. I feel like we've done a good job of not getting out of our over our skis and trying to do too much too fast and for what purpose. But one of the things you mentioned in terms of, you know, like how do we keep it Consistent. And what we're trying to do is I still think we stay student athlete focused. Our coaches know that of course we recognize somebody when they get an award and we do that. We like our alumni, like our alumni director. He's focusing on certain things. You know, I think when you start having like a football program is like at first 5,000 posts and tennis has zero. You run into some things. We don't. I mean, truthfully, we don't. We do not talk at all about lower level stuff. I mean, we all know it happens, but we're not posting JV scores, We're not posting freshman championships. It's just, it's not that we don't care, but it just all of a sudden now we're managing. Why didn't you do the JV golf match? It's like, well, it wasn't, it's not a thing right now. It's part of the process. So do you talk. You meant, you mentioned guidelines and guardrails. I think we, if anything, we might be a little tight in some regards. I think some people would argue we could let loose a little bit, but at the same time staying manageable and, you know, hitting the actual goals and expectations. You know, our hall of fame comes out. Derek's promoting each individual in a certain time or, you know, there's a, there's a track, a track kid who went to usc, he's getting in the hall of fame, but Derek's the one handling the communication and our track team is retweeting it or reposting it or whatever the case might be. So we are, for lack of a better word, we have an established chain of command now. Some things are organic. You know, we can't stop. I'm not going to stop Dell south football for saying, hey, great job, alumni X on, you know, two touchdowns in the game on Saturday, that's fine. But I do think that our less is more approach has definitely kept it consistent. Of course, if you, if you were to listen to some parents and alum, it would be out of control. You know, we'd spend. You know, there's not many high schools I know that have dedicated full time staffers. That can be communications. That's pretty rare. I mean, if that's the case, that's a dang. That school's got way better problems. They got others if they can afford. You can afford a full time Sid. Well, good for you. But if you're just having the, you know, as we all know in this day and age, the additional duties assigned to Head coaches just keeps growing and growing and growing. So for us, we try to, we try to support, try to help create consistency. We do a lot of posts like, hey, schedule release for the tennis program and then they repost versus the coach having to do that. Obviously there's some good apps in between, between Canva and Gippers of the world out there. That helps the branding for sure. Again, with the advent of technology, I think it's simpler to keep that consistency in that messaging. But it definitely, I believe that athletic departments have to take the lead and have to take a vested interest in it, especially because coaches don't always know what they're supposed to be promoting anyways, you know, I mean, so I don't know if that helps kind of add some content to the segue question, but hope that's kind of where we're at right now.
- [18:44]
A
No, I love it. And one thing that as you're talking about the branding and being uniform, I'll go out and say, rather than boring, you're brilliant at the basics. You really hone in on making sure that that brand is recognizable, it's uniform, consistent across the board. The other piece that's a good takeaway too is I like the focus on the varsity level. You know, certainly understanding lower levels are taking place, but you're being thoughtful in what you're placing out there and not just flooding the zone to where it's not as impactful. Right. If you have 50 different posts throughout the day, you're not going to get nearly as much engagement. Whereas if you have thought behind what you're posting, why you're posting it, how you're trying to draw attention. And then the last one that I'll touch on that I thought was great too, is the equity piece. You know, you're not going to just double down. We all know you have a fantastic football program, you have many great programs there, and you're providing equity across the board to not only promote those individual programs, but in turn that's also helping solidify and promote the brand too. So I think all those points are great takeaways.
- [19:54]
C
I think we've done, honestly, honestly, I think we've done, it's been directed and maybe I didn't write it down, but it's to promote the other programs and to become an everything program. Athletic department is where we had to go to get kids to come out to participate, like, you know what I mean, to understand the importance of invitationals, to be able to get grandparents and cousins, to be able to watch live stream I mean we've. I mean, I guess to that end you're right. Maybe I just didn't know it because I wasn't direct like writing it down and saying these are set goals. But it definitely has been something that we've wanted to make sure everyone felt a part of. I mean, to me the Della Sale community is more than just one sport and everyone has a moment and when you have that moment, you know, there's been some Mrs. True. Right. We, we've definitely, you know, in the day and age, like during spring sports there's a lot of crap going on, so it's hard to. Yeah, it's hard to get on top of it. So. And not all coaches are created equal, you know, so we also utilize some good team, parents, team managers. We've done, we've had to scrap to really help build. You know, captains are part of our promotion. You know, we're doing collabs with different people now and so like, you know, even building media relations with different folks. Like, here's what I would tell you. Working with the media is definitely part of our approach to branding. Knowing who is covering us and how they're covering us, building relationships has definitely been things. But these, a lot of the stuff that we do, and I don't mean to insult anyone, takes extra time and effort above the already complicated job. But the residuals and the ROI on that is important and some people just have to decide if they're in or out on why they want to do that. And for me it's been all in and I think we've. We're reaping the benefits of it. You know, when you get someone. I was on the phone and sorry to digress but like we were the Max preps game of the week. Right. It's not that big in terms of operations, just a live stream and, and Lakeland del Sol is a great game. It's nothing, you know, modern day whoever was played, you know, out there. So it wasn't like some sort of one versus two poly versus Del back in the day. But the reality is they show. They, we were, I was going doing some just quick review and they said they like, they're like, hey, take a look. This Tick tock post had 65, 000 loves likes and I'm like. And I. And again. So like there's a great example, I'm at that stage. Are we all in on Tick Tock? Maybe, maybe not. Have we considered snapping? Not really because that freaks me out right now. So I do think when you do that stuff. It's important to also evaluate and the why. You know, we all know Facebook's for old people. Twitter is not being followed by Twitter. Sort of for like the 20 somethings and 30 somethings. Instagram is probably the most popular. So I think the athletic department or the school has to want to care. Like, I have a weekly meeting with our communication team advancement. Every week we go over what events are coming up, what's our calendar, what's important, what's not important. Here's what I think you should cover. Here's what's a good deal. And again, we. It's a, it's. For me, it's important as much as is branding them to school, but it's also just for me. Celebration of the student athletes and the coaches. It's a win. You'd be shocked at how often people say, appreciate you coming out. Appreciate you putting our stuff out there. And, and once you get that rolling, it's. It's hard to stop the. The ball. And I think that's where some people ask like, what's the secret sauce and what are we doing at DSL differently? I'm like, well, part of it just starts off with a commitment to excellence. I'm not, I'm not Al Davis, but it's like we want to excel in every areas. And then this is. Helps people feel better. Like it's, it's a thing when captains see like, okay, there's a quick highlight video of our guys playing this past week. That was awesome. Thanks a lot. Just keeps you motivated. I think in a lot of ways our student athletes and coaches know that they're being watched, which also motivates them to cherish every moment, but not more importantly, give every ounce of energy they have to their program. And I know our alum care. You know, we all know alum can't get to every game. You know, they're all over the country and they're all over the busy and their schedule. And I think it keeps people connected where we don't necessarily directly try to keep everyone connected, but they do. They sure as heck are following us.
- [24:11]
B
That's. That's a lot of great information right there. I'm trying to figure out which one of those things I should compliment or respond to. First of all, I just deleted my Facebook account. Let's be clear.
- [24:22]
C
It's important. Honestly. It has a place. It has a place.
- [24:26]
B
You know what we always talk about? You cover different demographics with these different social media platforms, right? And 65,000 on TikTok makes everybody rethink, where do I need to be. Most athletic departments started on like, X or Twitter, right? And then they grew to maybe Facebook and a lot. Most are on Instagram now. But you got to meet people where they are. Greg and I talk about that all the time. And if that's where the kids are, then you want to probably try and find a way to meet them where they are, and that becomes really important. There is just organic competition for these kids, whether you're a public school or a private school these days, Right. So, like, keeping your own at home, what is a school going to be able to offer in terms of branding or celebrating the great stuff that they're doing? The name on the front and the name on the back of the jersey. And it sounds like you guys have found a pretty nice mix or balance of celebrating, like at the team level, keeping those institutions in place or that tradition in place, but also maybe branching out a little bit. Max Preps, game of the week. Big deal for us. We love it. I mean, I'm sitting here on New Jersey time, like, tuning into the west coast, and my wife is wondering what I'm doing, you know, at that time of night, watching games. So I love that, too. Listen, we touched on socials, so I'm going to skip that and just ask you this. Outside of this digital world and uniforms, like, I've never been on your campus, but how else on campus would I understand the branding? I'll give you a couple examples, right? Do you have banners up with those logos? Do your garbage cans, do your benches have colors, logos? Like, how else are you promoting that branding? Maybe just on campus as opposed to outside the outside world?
- [26:20]
C
Yeah. Well, first thing, which I'm just kind of visualizing, if you were to pull up, you're going to find a bookstore that's open all day. And I don't think a lot of schools have it. I know, Craig, at modern day, I don't even know if it's open all day. I think it might be, but it's pretty rare. Santa Margarita has one that I know of in California, but most folks don't have a bookstore. So on the branding front, before you even can get past the first 50ft, you're going to see 69 versions of like, T shirts and this and that, and you're just like, okay, so you're already going to kind of see Times New Roman. You're going to see the Spartan head. There's a Spartan script. There's some different things going on. And to be Honest with you, we're not very good at celebrating our success. If you're going to come on our campus right now, on our field we have zero banners. And like I like it again just because Greg has and I, you know, the modern daytime, like we don't have a Heisman way. We don't have. We were not really good at it, truth be told. And I don't know if it's because, you know, it just. We're not, we're humble, yes, but like we need to get in the middle. So we're trying to figure out ways to do it. Part of it is for me like we're, we're a next, next chapter, next next man up sort of program where it's like let's celebrate the championship. But guess what? Tomorrow we work towards the next crew. Juniors become seniors, the next team becomes the next team. And we don't really, we, we're trying to do a better job of celebrating honestly. Like now we're. This, this will sound very academic. We just really recently started doing team championship T shirts after you earn them. You know, we like, we didn't really do that and we should have along the way, which would have been a good branding part which would have led to other stuff. We don't really stop the campus and do a special rally for support or before or after. So we're, we're trying to get better at that stuff on the brand. So when if you walked on our campus you'd kind of think like everyone when they visit our school, where, where the heck's your stadium? It's like, well here it is. What. This is the school that won, you know, 151 games. Like yeah, that's us. Our facilities are understated. But again I think maybe that is answering the brand. Maybe, maybe my statement out loud to you is that maybe that is the brand and everyone knows it and that's maybe that and that that is who we are. Right? Like you're not going to get hyper color jerseys and you're not going to get certain things when you see us, but you are getting that. So maybe, maybe indirectly we, we are branding with just being who we are on a daily basis. We, we do need to increase to your point about trying to inform, trying to market, trying to, to brand, trying to just attract. Like we need to get a little bit better. On the flip side, nobody has, I think we're doing 144 broadcasts on Dell Cell TV. Like having live stream. That's a big deal, right? And, and being Able to promote. That's something that's probably. So that's like we go one way, one way. You know, we go on different sides of the spectrum. We invest money on that. So I think, you know, in short, from a school perspective, like we don't even have a school awning like on Treat Boulevard. You know, people have a digital display. We don't have one on. You can't, you can't find one where. I know nine. I would say a lot of schools have. Hey, you know this week's calendar, right? Happy birthday, Greg. Happy birthday, Scott. We probably could have one, honestly. Congratulations. Basketball and a great victory. But it just, it's just something that we haven't done. We've talked about it, but I feel like we just continue to focus on what we believe to be true, which is the student athlete experience, the student experience, the. You know, I, I just, I don't know. For whatever reason it. We all know when you work on a campus, there's hundreds of things that get to the top of priority. And that just hasn't been it. You know, we have a bookstore. That's good. We have people walking around with a ton of gear. You know, I think the, the one classic comment I get is everywhere people go walking around airports, people just say go Del Sal. You know, and so I know we have a national brand. I mean when we went to taking our team to London for football last year, and then our rugby team went to Ireland, you know, it was very, it's very known that people understand who we are and, and, and maybe we just don't give ourselves enough credit for what we've done. But I don't think it's because we're trying to hide from that. Just because I gotta, like, when I get off here, I'm gonna work on today and winning and capturing today for the future, so. And I guess because I've been blessed to be here long enough, maybe we just built a strong foundation to where what we consider normal and boring. I should keep using that word. Or is maybe maybe way far greater advanced than I even can can quantify. And I, I appreciate you, you two kind of bringing that to my attention because maybe we are doing a pretty good job. I just, I just always feel like there's there. I'm just never satisfied. And maybe that's the why people don't like working with me, because they're just like, can we take a break? But it's like, no, we got to figure out how we can do something better, you know, and, and Honestly, like, I'm on here because I want to help and help others, but at the same time, I'm imagining being on here is a branding opportunity for Dells all high school. And so you guys gave me an opportunity to. To talk about Della Sal in a different lens. And so, again, I just don't really. We just want to. I guess for us it's like, next play, next play. And maybe, maybe that's the right mentality, but I feel like that's just how we were born and how we live on this. On this campus.
- [31:58]
B
I think if you're ever looking for a new logo, I might go with lunch pail. It sounds like you guys just literally take that out and you grind and you get to work over there, and that's pretty special. I love it.
- [32:11]
A
I love it because, like, as we're talking through this, you know, it's kind of like watching Leo realize truly what is the heart of the brand is the lunch pail mentality. Scott, I was thinking hard hat when he was talking about it, like, next, next person up. You know, it's. It's, again, as cliche as it may sound, it's the name on the front, not the name on the back. But that's something that's reiterated because you're calculated in how you're celebrating certain things. You're calculated in the information that you're putting out there in the ether, if you will. And then also, too, you know, when you're talking about your. Your student broadcast programming and being able to stream and being able to not only continue to stay connected with your alums that are not there, but that also helps build upon that national brand recognition, because anyone throughout the country can jump on the network and see, hey, what's De La Salle up to? Let's check out their contest. So I think that that's a thoughtful approach of it as well. So all of that is extremely helpful information, especially for folks that are looking to decide what do they want their brand to be, right? And kind of shifting gears a little bit, but keeping in that same theme. Have you put thought into how you actually kind of, like, measure whether your branding efforts, you know, are you. Are you tracking anything outside of just attendance numbers? Are you. Are you paying mind to social interactions or if you had, you know, alumni email campaigns or trying to draw interest in certain places? Do you guys track any of that, or is it more just we're putting it out there and kind of see where the chips land afterwards?
- [33:42]
C
I think on the social side, we're definitely Taking a look. We always kind of review, like I said, we. The fact that we had. The fact that we knew that 60,000 people liked that TikTok thing, that TikTok post, I mean those, those are easy ones. We definitely, like the other day we tracked the views of our, of our live stream viewers. For sure. Great example is the MAX Preps team. They did their own broadcast and we stick. We did our own because we have our own different deliverables that we need to maintain. And I understood they couldn't do it and I wouldn't ask them to do it. It's like they had, I think they were at 40,000 unique views for that Max for Lakeland, which was to them was a huge success. And ours, with the same broadcast, same time, was about exactly where we'd go for like a bigger national sort of game. So we are. The metrics are there? Is it perfect? No, I think when it comes to other areas, like, you know, when you can kind of track the different, like hot T shirts logos, like the, you know, we, I think we gave away 1300 shirts in two hours last, you know, some kids were buying a ticket to the game that they weren't even going to go to because just, you know, just so they could get the T shirt. So I think there's, there's moments that allow you. In terms of attendance, our attendance is high, especially home. Home games. We know that we definitely can measure based on ticket sales, sponsorships and all the different things that are going there. I mean, I think we're always trending in the right direction, but I think we're mindful, truth be told, a lot of the things that we do are directed towards getting a pulse. I think that's whether it's qualitative or quantitative, whether it's written down, it's official. I think we have a good pulse as to what people want and what people think, and I think that's a guiding light. That's kind of that we use on a regular basis. You know, coaches, you know, kind of let you know what the, what the kids think in terms of jerseys. Right? We, our captains let us know. Our sports advisory council is they're definitely someone we meet with once a month and we kind of go over, hey, what's going on? You talk to people like your 12th man. You know, you kind of see, you know, at one point in time, really, like I was yelling at our basketball coach the other day, I'm like, we haven't really been using green very often. You know, it was green really White, silver, and. And. And. And black. And I'm like, bro, what about green? That is like, literally our color. And he's like, I don't really like green. I'm like, oh, great, but I don't care what you like. Well, I want to make sure we have some green. So even this year, I even told our rep, I'm like, we need more green. You know, we need more green. And again, things ebb and flow. Different trends happen. But I do know that, again, if you're just asking the question, have constant communication, you probably know what's going well and not working really quickly.
- [36:38]
A
I really like the viewpoint of keeping a pulse. Right. Scott and I, a couple of weeks ago, we did an episode where I was talking about diving into data and analytics. And one of the things that we spoke about was, you've got to really define what you're trying to get out of it, you know, because, like, numbers are going to be numbers, and you can interpret them a thousand different ways based upon how you want to try and justify something. Right? So I like the approach of how you have not only just, like, quantitative, but also qualitative and keeping a pulse on what is resonating. I mean, like that. The T shirt thing alone, to me, that screams that the brand is working because you have people that are desiring to purchase a ticket, not even show up for an event, because they want to be able to get that logo and be associated with that brand. So certainly think you're doing some things the right way up there, my friend.
- [37:27]
C
Like I said, I appreciate it. I think it's a tough. It's a real tough topic that. That people don't want to take on because it's just. There's a lot of stuff. I get it. You got to make sure the bus is on time. You got to make sure the uniforms are there. I think if this. The. The crafty athletic director admin is getting others involved so that the workload isn't on them. And I think you need community buy in. The style guide, at its infancy and its birth on our campus was shown to 50 different people, right? To make sure that it was something to be in there. And you got to communicate it, you know, and you have to stay on top of it. And I think that in the end, the benefits definitely outweigh the amount of time you might think is wasted.
- [38:16]
B
Greg, that T, that T shirt example makes me think about your bobblehead, that one year that you had on campus, and that kind of demand you had for that thing. Am I.
- [38:25]
A
Right, Yep. Certainly, certainly 100% on that. Absolutely.
- [38:32]
B
Up here. One of the things I was thinking about was like I always think about the university level and how when athletic teams do well, it tends to boost enrollment or at least the number of people applying to schools. So I'm just wondering if you think that your branding from the athletic department, the success at the athletic department has any sort of ripple effect on like the school wide community overall.
- [39:00]
C
Without a doubt. I actually, you know, I'm not going to sit here and say that athletics is more important than academics or campus ministry or whatever, but just the vehicle that's provided for the educational athletics piece in itself is big. We have 70% participation in athletics annually of our student body. So that's a big deal. So it automatically resonates. But you start to integrate the alum, you start to integrate the teachers. All that stuff is just something for someone to have a piece or a part of something. Again using the word traditional. I don't want to say we're, we only like it's football, football, football and that's all that matters or whatever sport. But I do, I would always argue that for the student athletes, for the community, when we're humming and athletics, a lot of things flow. But a lot of things also flow with our intramural program at lunch. Right? A lot of things flow with our theater product. I think anything co curricular can help you, your school achieve success. But definitely in terms of, to your point about attracting interest and promoting sport or promoting student athlete achievement, all that stuff's part of why we're doing it. And you. I honestly, if people are going to argue that, I like to hear what the counter topic is, but I almost think that you need to make sure you're investing in the right, in the right areas at the right time for the right reasons. And I think when you do that, it's organic. Right. You don't have to tell people that, hey, we are the greatest football program of all time and this is why you should go to school here because that's, to me that's alienating because not everyone's going to be a football player, not everyone's going to be an athlete. But it's like come be part of the 11th, the 12th man, come be a part of the pregame, you know this. Come be an alum that comes back. I mean all that stuff equals out. But at the same time, I really believe if you don't invest the time and money and effort in athletics, you're not getting that. You're not maximizing your potential. And I, and I think that even if you don't win, it's okay. You don't have to only win. You just have to have, you just have to have people. You just have to have people that want to be part of the equation. And then when you do that, it's, it's literally a one plus one equals three. So for me it's a no brainer. Some might argue that. I'm sure there's some, some starts and again I would always preface it like number. When, when students come in and parents, you're a student athlete. So I'm not, I'm not even taking away the academic part, you know what I mean? But I just know that when you, and I don't think you lead with athletics, I think you collaborate with athletics. You know what, you know when a rally is appropriate, you know when it's appropriate to take the team to team mass. You know when it's appropriate to have a team to be part of service. But all those things ramp up when you're doing athletics the right way.
- [41:46]
A
Completely agree. Especially because when you think about it, Scott and I have said this multiple times before when we're chatting through on these various episodes. It's your front porch. You know, it is the most visible element within the community because it's in the media, it's reported on, you know, people are checking scores. Athletics is a great vehicle to use to promote your institution and all the great things that it's doing. And when done right, everything that you just mentioned, you're going to get greater buy in. They may not be interested in football whatsoever, but the communal aspect of it that football offers may interest them in attending. Right. So there's, there's such a ripple effect and I think it's great insight to really look at that. Gonna give you kind of a loaded question, but want to get your perspective on it. Looking ahead, you know, with like social media ever evolving, technology constantly changing, how fans are consuming sports and information about programs, etc. How do you see athletics or how do you see high school athletic branding needing to adapt in coming years?
- [42:54]
C
Well, first and I think there's gonna be different levels, right? Like not, not all schools are created equal. I think if you're number one, I'd start off with the. I think what I would, I guess you guys would agree on the other side of the spectrum to Del Sal, which is if you're not doing it, you better get on it now, you know what I mean? So it's okay, if you're starting at zero, you better get to level two or three or something somehow. Somehow get your, your communications person, somehow get your booster club, depending whatever your school might be, get your admin in front of it because I think if you don't control the narrative, it can lead to the problems. If you have 39 at DLS student six man club handles, I mean, if you don't know what your official ones are, it leads just a whole bunch of problems. So I think you need to get, get to step one and two, which is understand who you are, understand what you have. And then I think you need to build a plan and the schools that are kind of already there. For me, the advice is I think you really have to be solid on what you want to accomplish and why. And I think you need to do some. We talked earlier about evaluation, constant evaluation on what is working, what's not working, and annual reminders, you know, so it's kind of like, here's what we need to do, here's why. I mean, you obviously you should have a coaches meeting every season, right? It's like, okay, here's as much as you have to get your physical form and you got to get your bus transportations filled out, you also need to make sure the parents, the branding. Here's what you discuss at your parent meeting. So again, what, what you're actually able to communicate or and regulate. It depends on where you're at as a school. But you, whatever you stand for, make sure it's reiterated. And then I think at the end of the year, you have to set some goals, you have to take some chances or not and figure out where you want to go or what you want to do. I mean, I think earlier I mentioned for us right now, it's like to podcast or not to podcast. To TikTok or not to TikTok. How are our views? The other day I didn't really post our game day scores on X like I usually do, and I got a bunch of people saying, dude, why aren't you updating, you know, the scores every court or every score? And I'm like, well, I don't know. I fell asleep at the wheels. Number one, sorry. Number two, I just didn't get around to it. So it's like you'd be surprised. I think we talked about getting a pulse. I think you have to always at least, at least internally figure out we're doing what we need to do. I. It's important that coaches know, like, there's certain times we're all doing this and this is how we're doing it and why we're doing it. People. Here's the last thing I'd say. Whoever's in charge in whole or part needs to be active, needs to be paying attention. I spend a good 20 to 30 minutes a week on the bike and I just scroll. It's just social media time. Just look around. I follow, I follow our student athletes. I'll go on there. I see what's clicking. Sometimes I find things I don't want to find because it creates extra work and parents and different things. I think, I think when people know you're active it also helps kind of control what you're doing, what you're accomplishing and it. And truth be told, I do think you get ideas. Like if anything I'm getting ideas from. I saw again, I follow modern day asp. They did the cool. They did their prayer on video with two kids against Kahuku. I saw it, it was a 10 second clip. I just happened to be. I'm like, oh that's cool kids. I was like, oh, what that told me. It's like the student body leaders were the did the prayer and they did prayer and it was cool. And I'm like, I learned. I mean I never, I never, I've never posted video of the prayer before now I might, you know what I mean? So just things that I think I'm not. No one has enough time unless that's your job to like know what everything's going on. But I do think if you're at my. At our point in time and where we're at, like being active and knowing where you want to go and committing to it is a big, is a big thing that should be happening right now. If you're the, if you're brand new, you gotta, you still gotta commit, but it's a different level of commitment.
- [47:02]
A
I think that's a great way of looking at it. You know, it depends on where you're currently at and where you want to be. But a big takeaway for me is if you're not doing it, you should probably really start looking into doing it. Otherwise you're going to miss an opportunity and it may pass you by and ultimately impact your department as a whole.
- [47:18]
C
Yep, a lot of information out there. Unfortunately, you just got to figure out how to get it.
- [47:23]
A
Absolutely.
- [47:25]
B
I love controlling the narrative. Sorry G. Say love the idea of controlling the narrative. And my biggest takeaway here, and I think we should provide something for those listening guys is the style Guide itself, we should figure out from some of the schools across the country. They can email them to us, get some different style guys. That's a great story for schools who may not have that, but some people may not even understand what that looks like. So I'd love to get some example style guides. Leo, maybe we could grab yours if you're allowed to share that. And 100. You know, just. Just put it out there because that's, again, that's a great starting point for consistency across the board.
- [48:09]
C
It'd be. It'd be. I bet you 5 out of 10 schools to start off with, we don't have one. We got a lot of work ahead of us. They have logos. They have logos, but there might be 72 iterations of logos, and the headaches will begin.
- [48:23]
A
Absolutely. So, Leo, another question that we got that I think is probably important for schools to hear and athletic directors to kind of think about when it comes to fan engagement, theme nights, social media, storytelling, interactive experiences, what's really worked the best for you and being able to utilize that to really build that brand connection.
- [48:46]
C
Well, first and foremost, I think you got to have whatever student leadership group, you know, 12th man. Our guys do a good job. Our leadership team, they have their leaders, they have scripts. They literally have like practice and themes and calendars, and they're lining it out, I think the way for fan engagement or we just. And then obviously you can get as corporate as the Nike one that we just had this last Friday that we were blessed to be part of NFL rivalry series. No matter what you do, I think you have to have established channels of communication. DLS, 12th man. DLS 6 man. Like, I kind of know that those are ones people. That's where kids. To your point, you said meet. Meet where the people are. Figure where that out, where that is. It's also team parents, you know, like, I hate to say it, but team parents do a pretty good job of getting information out quickly. I think you need to use all the sources that you think are powerful for you. I do know one thing is one thing that is interesting for us is that just communicating in advance is a key factor. You know, like for us, when we have a football game operations meeting at the beginning of the year, we know senior night homecoming to this, to Hawaiian shirt night to this. I think when you get all that stuff done, it's easier to promote. And I think the one thing also too is don't every night the way these kids are focusing. And if you want them, the social media component is a Huge deal when you get it right. I feel like that's the best way to get fan engagement. The other one I'd say is, you know, for us, our DLSL livestream is bigger than what I thought it would be. Down the road, people pay attention. They don't like to do a lot of reading, but they like to listen. We do a lot of things that we can get like communicated out that way. Use the other resources on your campus, alumni association, booster club, whatever you, I mean for lack of a better word, it's an all out attack, right. And you need to use every resource to get it going. And then the other thing too, I would say is don't just be the same, you know. And I think that goes back to our student activities group. They do a good job of asking folks what do they like. And listening to your audience I think is key. And every student body is probably different, you know, but I do know that when we, we are technically we're always surveying polling. Hey, what, what's a good thing, what's hot, what's not. And everyone loves free stuff. Let's just call what it is, you throwing out free T shirts. I mean, and I, I, that's one thing I, the partnering with your vendors, if you can and supporting local vendors is a collegiate sort of approach. But really I think is simpler than people think. Everyone's got banners. When you go to people's stadiums, like getting those folks engaged to give a couple hundred bucks and maybe combining on a, it's a, it's a, it's a white out or it's this or it's that or it's, you know what I mean? I think there's ways to kind of create activities to get fan engagement that don't cost a lot of money and have a lot of roi when you just have to, again, it's extra work, it's extra time. But keeping, you know, getting people involved is a thing that you can do and it really brings everyone together for a fun time. And again, we're not even talking about winning a football game, you know, we're talking about or a basketball game or baseball or Thunder sticks at a bit or we're talking about stuff that has nothing to do with the actual game. But, but to Scott's point about like where, what athletics does for a campus, it's an easy, these are easy opportunities where if you're focused on fan engagement, it's always going to be a win win when, when, when thought out correctly.
- [52:20]
B
My perspective on that too is that those are the things that most people will remember. Right? Most people, aside from maybe the players on the field are going to remember the good time they had in the stands or the different events or the contests or the themes. Like those are the things that the kids will remember 10 years from now, 15 years from now. That is something that's memorable and that's.
- [52:45]
C
Something like the DJ the decent. The DJ in the 6th and the 12th man is a. This is a bigger deal than I ever thought. It's amazing how much a few hundred bucks goes a long way to keep those kids dancing in the stands, you know, all the way to the end of the game. It's wild.
- [53:00]
A
That's awesome. It's great perspective too because it's finding ways to really engage with the fan. You know, that's outside of everything that's taking place on the court, the field, etc, it's just finding ways to continue to be engaged with them. I think that's.
- [53:11]
C
I think it goes back to you mentioned like, you know, you just have to be active. Like there's some really cool reposts that we had no idea would actually be a thing and but there's content and all of a sudden you see these kids and they're doing their different things like wow, that is awesome. Let's you know. And even you know, all the different, all the different tools, the draw, the drones and everything else, I think it's just all part of it. Right. You just have to what. What works for some is not always for others but at the same time goes back to the theme of always take a look what's out there to see how you can enhance your deal. Even us doing stuff on play on on live stream with no announcing but knowing that you can watch a freshman game that helps the grandma helps the fan getting in helps get that stuff on there. There's no announcing but they can watch the game and from North Dakota and those are things that yes set your game cameras time to. That seems real basic and more work but it's like goes a long way with getting fans to say hey you know what, I'm gonna come watch that JV game. I saw that kid play. I want to go check it out because he looked like they're awesome. Great team. So subtle ways to do things to move the needle.
- [54:15]
A
Well what I really love on that too is like you're utilizing the streaming element one, to keep them engaged. But then two, you can repurpose that material too and put out promotional information about it. You can put out different social media posts and take that content and leverage it to continue to build that national brand, the local brand, wherever you may be at. You know, we've been talking about there's varying levels and there's a sliding scale of where you're at with your brand, but there's so many different things that you can take and automate it too, to make it a little bit easier on your end and just keep those fans engaged and keep that brand top of mind too. Scott, thoughts?
- [54:51]
B
I love this episode. I think we talked many times about branding and how important it is to schools and that importance continues to be elevated and grow. Whether you are a De La Salle or you are a small group, one school out in the middle of nowhere, people want to be able to identify with you, your school, your athletes. And that is critical no matter where you are.
- [55:19]
A
Absolutely. Absolutely. Leo, cannot thank you enough for joining us today. This has been a fun episode. Diving in, learning more about getting brilliant at the basics and building out that that brand through consistency. Cannot thank you enough for joining us today.
- [55:33]
C
Anything in closing, appreciate you guys trying to help out the athletic world. I mean it's high school space is changing and I think the more perspective people can get from different folks, they can learn and get their student athletes and their campus better is all that we all can ask, honestly ask for. And so appreciate your support of high school athletics.
- [55:54]
A
Thank you so much. And again, thank you to Leo Lopos from De La Salle High School joining us today, talking through all things that are related to branding and being able to help elevate your athletic department's brand. With that said, if you liked what you heard today, please be sure to follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast from so you don't miss any new content. With that said, from A.D. 360, I'm Greg Vandermayd. Scott Rosenberg, until next time.