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- [00:02]
A
Dive into the dynamic world of high school sports. Whether you're a seasoned athletic director, a newcomer to the field, or simply curious to learn more about this exciting profession, this podcast is your go to resource for inspiration, education and a deeper understanding of the game changing decisions that shape the world of high school athletics. Welcome back to AD360. I'm Greg Vandermayen. My co host Scott Rosenberg's here. Scott, how was your holiday season, my friend?
- [00:30]
B
Great, man. It was nice to unplug a little bit, spend some time with the family. My kids are like preteen and teens, so never enough to do unless like, I feel like you're traveling and never get common agreement on what they want to do. Besides that, the holiday itself was special and great. How about you?
- [00:49]
A
That's awesome. It was, you know, it was, thanks for asking. It was great. You know, my, my little one's a little bit younger. We're in the toddler phase. You know, he's going to be three in two months. So it was a really memorable one because this is, he finally got it, you know, like Santa. Everything was like, Santa got this. Selfishly in the back of my mind I'm like, why Santa? Stealing all my thunder, you know, so. But it was, it was a lot of fun, really enjoyed it. It's always nice to be able to kind of get that little bit of a break to recharge. I know many ads, hopefully you're able to get a moment or so because many of you still have winter tournaments and other things. The, the, the machine doesn't stop just because it's holiday season. So I'm hoping that many of our listeners were able to get a little bit of R and R and just.
- [01:34]
B
Another like expectation of ads. Right. Probably just about every administrator in the district was off and I'm sure ads were coming into the office, whether for home tournaments or just like prepping, doing stuff, getting teams on the road, or catching up from absolutely everything or trying to get ahead.
- [01:54]
A
I used to, I used to go into the office even when we didn't have stuff going on. I'd carve out a day or two because I knew I could get two days of work done in a few hours because it wasn't people poking their head in my office or an email or a phone call. So hopefully all of our listeners were able to get some rest in and maybe get a little bit ahead of the curve as we go into the second half of the 24, 25 school year, which is kind of wild to say that we're now in 2025, so apologies. A belated Happy New Year to you as well, Scott.
- [02:25]
B
I don't know what the statute of limitations is on Happy New Year, but we're only seven days in. I think we're good.
- [02:32]
A
I feel like you can do it through the first two weeks of January. I'm just going to throw that out. That'll be my view on the rule.
- [02:39]
B
I think that that kind of corresponds to the time that everybody new to the gym drops out from working out by like that second Friday of January. So maybe that works.
- [02:49]
A
Oh, that's awesome. Well, folks, we got a great one for you today. It's a, it's a topic that Scott and I really have enjoyed talking about offline and that's going to be multi sport participation in high school athletics. You know, it seems now more than ever kids are starting to specialize in one particular sport earlier and earlier they're going year round. So Scott and I thought that it would be good to kind of set aside an episode to chat through. What can we as athletic directors do to really try and spark better engagement in multi sport participation? Because there's great benefits to it, not only just from a social development perspective. You can look at the studies from an athletic development perspective as well and just being able to help create a holistic student athlete. So we're really excited to kind of talk through this. So with so much to get into, why don't we just kind of dive right in? Scott, I'm going to ask you the first one that comes to mind. Why do you think multi sport participation is important for high school athletics?
- [03:53]
B
Yeah, I mean, I would say there's so many reasons why it's important. First of all, like, you know, just research on multi sport athletes shows that you're going to be better at your other sports when you participate in maybe not your number one or your number two sport. You're using different muscles, you're preventing overuse injuries because you're, you know, well, maybe you are playing year round but hopefully you can take a little time off from, let's say, your number one sport to participate in these other sports. And I just think like that the training of different parts of your body is going to help you, you know that kind of stuff better than I do. But that's a huge one. I think mentally getting a break from one sport and one mindset is helpful. And obviously most sports or many sports translate really well to other sports. So you know, hey, a soccer player and vision on the soccer field might Translate incredibly well to a little lacrosse field or you know, skating backwards in hockey might relate well to something else that you're doing in one of your sports. Obviously like I always think wrestling and lineman and just like, you know, your hips and your body control and things like that. So you know, you see those charts out there posted lots of times in social media like hey, how many NFL athletes participated in at least two sports when they were in high school? How many of them participated in track or wrestling? So there's definitely an advantage to playing multiple sports. And then obviously you just get into selfishly at, in certain schools just like the need for your kids to participate in, in more than one sport just to have success, to have multiple levels of those sports so that maybe those kids who it is their number one sport have like the opportunity to play that sport at their school because you have enough bodies out there and enough athletes out there for their sport. So I think there's a lot of advantages. How about you Greg?
- [05:59]
A
I think those are all great thoughts. I mean like the first one that always comes to the forefront of my mind like we, we go back, I used to lovingly call myself a meathead with a masters, you know, because when I started my career I was in sport performance. And then I transitioned into the athletic director role. And one of the things that I always tried to hammer home to my coaches, both as a strength coach as well as an athletic director, was the importance of multi sport participation. And there's so many arguments against it that are just, they're unfounded. You know, like they're, they're, they're counterintuitive in nature. And one of the things that you spoke on was just like the better development of the student athlete from an athletic perspective. You'll see studies out there that show those student athletes that participated in multiple sports actually have injury rate reductions. You see less cases of ACL tears because they've trained in different movement planes. You know, like they're not just running track straight ahead, maybe they're going out and during the winter or fall they're playing soccer and they're being able to have some of those different stimuluses to help develop them just from an athletic perspective. So I completely agree with you there. I mean I used to love seeing it. You know, I'm a former offensive lineman myself and wrestling, you know, o lineman and wrestling, those go hand in hand skill positions. And track, that's a great one. You look at other sports, you can just list it across the board, whatever it may be. Like I Used to love it when I would see an aquatics athlete do something that was field based or vice versa, you know, because then you would be able to get a little bit better development just from a, an athletic perspective. And then other points that you spoke on, I mean from the help of the other programs, you know, one, you want to be able to help drive interest into some of those programs that are maybe just starting up, maybe programs that are starting to see some lower numbers and encouraging kids to get out there and try something new. I think one thing too is the early specialization. One of them that bothers me about it is we're drilling into their head so young. This is what you are. And whether it's I'm a baseball player or I play volleyball or I'm softball, you don't even know. I mean you could be thinking you're a baseball player, but you could be a high level soccer player and you never even tried. You know, I think it's being able to give those student athletes an avenue and an opportunity to try different sports. And then lastly, what I'll touch on is something echo what you said too. You're getting around a different group of, of kids, student athletes, you're seeing something different. You're, you're engaging, you're getting new friends, you're broadening your scope. I think that the overall benefits of multi sport participation far outweigh any argument against it. You know, I'm sure there's outlier scenarios where it's like, okay, well this individual is going to be a five star and this is their sport. They're a junior or a senior, they don't want to risk injury because they're going into, you know, know, recruitment time or they're worried about nil deals, things like that. Those are going to be your extreme outliers. That's not going to be your everyday kid. And I think that there's just so many benefits that you can get from multi sport participation.
- [09:03]
B
Yeah, yeah, we're in total agreement. I remember one of my, my favorite moments with a kid. It was like, I think it was fall of his junior year and I, I can't remember the situation but I remember this. The kid had never gone home on the bus right after school because he was involved in three sports. There was like a lot of crossover. I think he stayed, if there was any time in between seasons, he had always stayed to work out or lift or something. And I just remember one day like right towards the end of the day, I'm coming down to my office and Going, you got to help me figure out how to get to my bus after school. The kid had been in school for like two, two and a half years already, but he had never taken the bus home directly after school because he was always there, like playing the sport. And I was like, man, I love this kid. This is awesome.
- [09:51]
A
That's so great. And those, that's, that's a dying breed nowadays, right? And you, you, you love to see that. And hopefully some athletic directors out there listening to this are trying to find ways to get more kids like that, you know what I mean?
- [10:03]
B
Yeah, for sure. You spoke about it a drop, but like, maybe you can go into more detail misconceptions about playing multiple sports versus maybe specializing in one. One that stuck out before was just like injuries.
- [10:19]
A
Yeah, yeah. I think one of the big misconceptions is injuries, right? Because people sit there and they think like, well, if I'm not playing the sport that's like my quote unquote main sport, I'm going to be prone to injury in. The, the other sport where it's actually the opposite is going to take place, is you're, you're going out there and you're getting a different stimulus. So from like a neuromuscular standpoint, skeletal muscular standpoint, you're getting different stimuluses and stressors that are helping strengthen not only the musculature, but also your connective tissue. You see lower instances of, you know, ankle rolls. If somebody was, let's use the track and field example, you know, they're a linear sport where they're just running straight in most cases. Right. Well, they're going to be more prone to change of direction injury. Well, if they start playing a sport where they start having some change of direction introduced, they strengthen their ankles, you know, and the, the supporting structure is there to, to assist them. I think that's number one. I think two, where you get a lot of misconceptions about the multi sport is, well, my main skill is going to take a hit because I'm not training it year round. And you had mentioned earlier, like, oh, if I'm playing multi sports, like, I never get time off. It's like. But when you're playing a sport, you're not getting the same demand. You know, like if you're a baseball athlete in the spring and then during the fall, maybe if it's a state where you're playing soccer in the fall and you're playing soccer, you're resting your arm and there's so much overuse injuries in that arm, you're getting that opportunity to tax different energy systems and just develop as an athlete. I think those are the main misconceptions. And then the last one that I'll touch on is you hear it a lot. I think more so from parents is what I heard a lot from was, well, if they're not playing this sport year round, they're not going to get recruited. And then you start talking to college coaches and you had mentioned before where you see like the infographs of like the NFL draft. One of them that always sticks out in my mind is the University of Iowa. I don't know if they still do this, but they did it for a lot of years and I thought it was fantastic is they would, after the NFL draft they would put up like a list of their guys that got drafted and it would show what sports they played. So that was the first iteration. Then some years go by and then they started just putting within their. I don't know if it was in their program, which is social media, but it would show like they're, they're starting offenses and defenses. And it wouldn't say like Greg Vandermade, offensive guard. It would be like Greg Vandermade, you know, state runner up, insert sport. You know, Scott Rosenberg, wide receiver. Nope, it's going to say Scott Rosenberg, New Jersey state champion boy soccer. You know, like. And highlighting that I, I spoke with a lot of coaches, as you probably did yourself during the, the college recruitment era of many of your student athlet and they come through and they're wanting to get a little bit of insight about the kids that they're going after and they want to know what other sports do they play because they find that they see the benefit in it. So I think it's a lot of just kind of educating those that there is a significant benefit to playing multiple sports when you're in high school.
- [13:23]
B
Yeah.
- [13:24]
A
What are your thoughts?
- [13:25]
B
Yeah, I mean, you stole my thunder on that last one. I was, I was gearing up to answer that one exactly the same way. The misconception that college coaches would rather you specialize than play multiple sports, I completely agree. Like time after time after time I would hear from coaches, college coaches, that they would prefer a kid was a multiple sport athlete versus, you know, single sport. So that was the biggest misconception that, that I found out there for sure.
- [13:55]
A
Absolutely. So this next one I got for you, I feel like it could be a little bit of a hot topic hot button question to ask. So I'm just going to throw it out there. Do you think the rise of travel team slash year round club has changed the dynamics of not only just high school athletics but the dynamic of being a multi sport athlete?
- [14:19]
B
I mean 100%, I would say that it's literally like 180 degrees different from the way it used to be when it comes to this. I mean listen, I had to evolve as an athletic director and as a coach. I 100% started out my career thinking us versus them, right? It was like high school sports versus club sports. And over time you had no choice but to evolve to understand that they had to coexist. In fact they needed to be on the same page. We talked even about like signing ceremonies and bringing in club coaches, right? Because they had a huge role in, in it. So like anybody who wants to stand out there, whether it's a coach or whether it's an athletic director at this point, stand up and say like that we, we need to be separate and we shouldn't coexist. I mean I can remember like having to try and plan or fighting the fact that club tournaments were on the same weekend as a high school state tournament and not even thinking like we should maybe change the schedule a little bit from the high school sport to accommodate a, like a huge college tournament or you know, club tournament that was going on that was attracting tons and tons of college coaches. Like you've got to be able to sit there and say for almost every sport out there, probably short of like football and maybe track, like kids are mostly going to get recruited from that club scene versus the high school scene. It's just pragmatic for a college coach to go to one tournament and see 20, 25 kids who they're interested in versus to fly in to your school or get to your school to see one kid play. So the dynamics have completely changed. Obviously the pressure you said before to be like a one sport athlete is immense from a very young age. And I mean, let's face it, these are money making institutions, right? The club sports, they have tremendous value. But the fact of the matter is, is that they're also for profit. 95% of the time they're for profit institutions. And so hey listen, if that club team can get you to sign up for year round, you're going to be paying for year round. So there's some self interest in that as well from probably my opinion, 100% way too early of an age. And so that changes the dynamic of them trying to go to a kid and say you should be playing multiple sports. At the high school because they're hearing both sides of that. Yeah, you know, I, you know, my club coach wants me year round or my club coach wants me lifting instead of doing sport B or sport C. So I mean it's, it's changed completely. And I just think it's really, really important that both sides, education based athletics, club athletics, figure out a way to coexist and again, maybe more importantly to work together, not just coexist. How about you?
- [17:21]
A
I think that that's a fantastic answer because very much like yourself, like early on it's like us versus them, right? And then as you start to evolve and seeing like this is an unwinnable war, if you will, because so many, so many student athletes and their parents are going to drink the proverbial Kool aid and be like, nope, we need to specialize. You know, when he was in kindergarten, he kicked the ball really well. He's a soccer player. It's like, okay, well you know, you're not gonna, you're not gonna be able to completely negate that.
- [17:54]
B
Right.
- [17:54]
A
You're gonna have to learn how to coexist, as you said. And I think that's a big piece of it. And I think part of it too is not only just adapting to it because it's there and it's not going to go away. And I think it's not going to go away largely because what you had mentioned about, you know, they are money making institutions and some clubs make a lot of money and they have multiple teams for the same age group and they want to just, it's a cattle call. They want to get as many bodies in the door as they possibly can because it's their business. And I'm not, I'm not trying to speak ill of that. It's, it's what it is. I think one of the things that I had to kind of do that was not exactly popular when I would be talking with some of my sport coaches is when they had a multi sport athlete be understanding of some of their other demands. And though they may not have liked to have heard this at times, there were times where it's like, you also need to understand that this is not their quote unquote main sport. So let's not try and push them away by making them choose like, no, you can't be, you can't be dismissed from this to go to this big tournament where you have the opportunity to be in front of college coaches, be a little more understanding of it. You know, I'm not saying that you just give them a carte blanche to do whatever they want and show up whenever they want. You still need to have guardrails and parameters in place, but you have to also be of the realization like, okay, they're not skipping practice, they're participating in another event for another sport. And I'm showing some leniency here because I wanted them to still be a part of the program. I think that that's something that's really kind of changed over the years in the dynamic of seeing more coaches that are being more willing to do that because they want to have that. Now there's also going to be those sport programs where they say, nope, you're either doing this or you're not doing it at all. And they end up losing kids because of it. So I think it's a delicate balance of learning how to juggle the two and really trying to keep the kids engaged and encouraged to be a part of your program, while at the same time understanding they may have a main sport and they may have demands of that main sport because of it. Not exactly a popular answer amongst many of my coaches, but at the same time it was trying to get them to understand the importance of being able to have the kids still participate with them.
- [20:10]
B
No, you use the term unwinnable war, and you know what the problem is, is the kids get stuck in the middle. Like, yes. I mean, that's. That's what you're saying, right? You're saying, like, don't put it on the kid. Like, you've got to figure out ways to work together. Your policies probably can't be black and white on this kind of stuff. There probably has to be some gray involved there to allow kids to miss for certain reasons. I mean, that's across the board. I remember, like, listen, depending on your community, kids might need jobs, right? So, like, do you have a black and white policy that says if you miss practice, this is the consequence 100%, no matter what? All right. And what if they're working to help put food on the table for their family? Are you going to allow them to miss practice if they can't get out of it for some reason? If they've got this, you know, opportunity where they've got to be on campus for an official recruiting visit for another sport? You can tell a kid no.
- [21:12]
A
Yeah.
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B
You know, so like, that's what, that's what I took out of what you said, right? Like, you can't put kids in the middle. You've got to figure out a way to make it Work. And I guess certainly as a coach of, you know, a second and third sport, like, you know what, maybe that kid just isn't like your captain of your team. Right. Because their number one sport is over here. And like, you want to set the example, let's say, with your captains as, hey, like they're the most committed to your specific sport. I could understand that if I'm a parent. Right. Like, I'm not going to argue with a coach that my kid isn't the captain of their team for their second or third best sport because they're committed so much more to sport number one. But you've got to figure out ways to work together on that. No doubt.
- [21:59]
A
Absolutely. I think also too, it's not just going to be able to be working with the multi sport athlete, it's the multi activity athlete too, because there's going to be athletes that maybe they're part of choir, maybe they're doing stuff with performing arts. The same approach can be taken for that as well. Because you want to encourage the holistic development of the student athlete. That's what we're here for. We're not trying to put them in a silo and just say, this is what you are. We want them to explore and be able to discover and hey, I'm good at this. I enjoy doing this. Let's not limit it. Let's try and find ways to work with it and compromise. So that's some great takeaways on that.
- [22:33]
B
I was, I was at a game, football game here in town and I was watching the marching band at halftime and there was one kid in there in his football uniform, he was a lineman and he was like, you know, literally in his football uniform doing the marching band performance. And I'm like, I mean, there's a coach who obviously, you know, who understood he's missing. He was a starter, but he was missing the halftime speech. He was missing, you know, whatever fixes or whatever like adjustments they were making at halftime because he was out there with the marching band. So like, point well taken. It's not just athletics.
- [23:09]
A
That's awesome. You love to see that, right? You know, it's always great. I, I just hope, as a former offensive lineman myself, I hope he wasn't just playing like the tuba. I hope he had like, let's, let's hope that he was like, you know, maybe it was a drum major or something like that. But I'm just, I'm gonna choose to believe that he was, he was just lighting it up, you know, playing, playing the trumpet or something.
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B
I don't know, man. I'm. I'm a coach. I was looking at his feet. I wanted to see how quick his feet were out there. So I'm not sure. Yeah, and we talked about it a little bit, but any other challenges, like for student athletes and parents when they're considering playing a multiple, you know, multiple sports?
- [23:50]
A
You know, I think we talked a little bit about being able to adjust schedules, you know, and commitments and things like that, and the education of the parents as well as the students. But let's talk a little bit just in terms of, like, the peer pressure too. You know, that's a challenge for kids because maybe they have friends that have decided, hey, I am this sport and only this sport. And they're getting those peer pressures of, oh, yeah, well, Scott, you weren't there. You wouldn't understand. Like, you weren't there for that off season conditioning day because, you know, you were playing sport A and you weren't there with us. So I think the peer pressure is something that's real and you have to be able to address it. And that comes from your overall just coaching philosophy with each individual coach of being encouraging and being able to identify these types of behaviors and mitigate them and educating your program as to what the importance is and why we're going to be respectful of their decision and how they're still very much a part of the team. They have a different commitment that they've made during this time of the year. You know, I think that's. That's a big piece of it is, you know, the peer pressure element of it. And then much of what we spoke about, you know, the scheduling conflict is probably always going to be one of the biggest ones. And that's not just for the student athlete. That's for the parents. You know, that's for the. For the ads, for the coaches. You're constantly having to try and find ways to juggle it. And then from a coach's perspective of talking a little bit about how you had mentioned, you know, like, you can't have black and white in this arena. Like, you've got to have some gray area and you've got to have some understanding of what the kids are going through and what their demands are and being flexible on that. But also, don't just be so super lenient that it gets taken advantage of. If you got a kid that's going to be missing an event, you want to make sure that that's a confirmed event they're actually doing. They're not just skipping practice. Right. So I think a lot of the challenges is going to be just schedule based peer pressure and then, you know, just that student athlete themselves too. You know, you want to make sure they haven't bitten off more than they could chew because there are going to be a lot of demands when you're, when you're doing multiple sports and you don't want to see them burnout. So it becomes like those, those open lines of communication with your student athletes. But what about you, Scott? What are some of your thoughts on that front?
- [26:04]
B
Yeah, I mean, the only thing I could add to it is again, you just have to, to consider like the scheduling aspect of it and like, I like the peer pressure thought process. I mean, the bottom line is most of these kids are probably going to be playing a club sport. If it's like their number one, they're going to be playing a club sport during your season. So like, you know, how can you just make sure that both mentally and physically you can work with them to make sure that they're whole. And time management, I mean, it's a great skill to teach that time management piece, but you also got to make sure that, you know, kids need sleep. Yeah, I could get on a soapbox about homework and how much homework kids get and that kind of stuff right now. But I mean, the bottom line is, you know, there's that academic piece you got to think about too. They're playing a high school sport, they're playing a club sport and they're trying to do well academically. Like, you know that it's difficult. And so you just got to keep that in mind.
- [27:00]
A
Absolutely. Couldn't agree with you more. From the AD perspective, what are some of the tools that you can provide us with, you know, to be able to confront some of the challenges that you, that you saw from coaches who wanted specialization?
- [27:15]
B
Yeah. You know, I came into this podcast just thinking a lot about, well, as an athletic director, how do you affect change or how do you make things better to encourage multi sport athletes? I don't think we asked that question specifically, like what can an AD do to encourage it? And I think it starts with your hiring process. Yeah, four coaches. And then obviously if you're a newer AD to a school, it's like, you know, you're inheriting a bunch of coaches. So it's, it's how you approach those coaches that maybe aren't like the ones that you hired coming into the game. So I mean, the fact of the matter is, is like those have to be really important questions that you ask during the interview process. And at the same time you've got to make sure that they understand. Maybe it's not interview one, but certainly before you're going to offer somebody a position, you need to make sure that coaches are on board with your philosophy or your athletic department philosophy for multi sport athletes and how coaches can encourage them. I mean, again, I. It's such a push and pull. I think about football a lot and like, you know, there's a real heavy push to make sure kids are lifting in the off season. And I get it, like clearly I get it in every sport. But then like, are you trying to tell your kids that you don't want them playing a winter sport if you're the football coach and because you want to see him in the weight room every day after school? Or are you that coach who's literally, I mean, God, I was at one school, the football coach would literally like basically go up to his kids and be like, you5, come with me. And he would walk them into the basketball gym and he'd say, you're playing basketball this year. And he'd grab like four other kids and he'd be like, this is coach Stets, he's the wrestling coach. You'll be wrestling this year. And literally was like, you don't have. Almost like you don't have a choice. You know, maybe that's a little extreme, but it's the truth. And that's how encouraging he was to make sure kids were getting out and playing other sports. So like when you're interviewing, when you're hiring, you've got to get coaches on board that see like the big picture Again, I came from a small school too, Greg, where it was like we couldn't survive if our good athletes were only playing one sport. It just wasn't going to happen. Like there wouldn't be enough kids to play other sports and we certainly wouldn't be able to compete in other sports if kids weren't playing at least two sports or at least our better athletes. So I think the biggest way that you can help multi sport athletes be successful is the way you hire coaches. The philosophy you develop as an ad. And I think it's important as an athletic director to make sure that you involve all your coaches in that process. Like in your end of the year meetings or whatever meetings you set up where all your coaches are together. Like you start having those discussions out loud and make sure everybody understands and let them have input. How about you?
- [30:17]
A
I think that's A great point. You know, it needs to be a part of your hiring process and asking those questions when you're interviewing potential candidates. And I like your thought too of like it doesn't necessarily need to be, you know, right out the gate, first interview you're trying to get a feel for these specific coaches. But as you're having more in depth interviews, get their views. You know, ask them what is your view on multi sport athlete versus specialization? You know, and then as they answer that, let them know what your thoughts on it are too. Like we, we encourage this here. Would you be willing to continue to encourage this? I think that that's very important that from the jump you're letting those potential coaches know like this is how we like to run our program. Because we want our student athletes to have every opportunity they can to pursue whatever it may be. Because this is the age where they can get to go and find out and try something and say I didn't like that, I don't need to go out for it next year. You know, like let them experience these things. They don't need to be defined as an athlete that early on. So I think that that's a great point and I really, I appreciate that because I think that's a big piece that athletic directors can do. And then two, from, from an AD standpoint, having conversations not only with your coaches individually, but as a group and letting them realize like, hey, this is a goal of ours is to increase overall participation. There's always going to be the sports that are the haves and the have nots in terms of numbers. And they, you know, from, from a private school perspective, they wanted to safeguard those numbers. Right, because that's participation fees, that's funding their program. And one of the things that I would try to preach to our coaches was like, you've got to look at it through the, through the overall department lens and then also more importantly through the student athletes lens. I want you guys to be able to collaborate and work with one another. Okay. Scott's, you know, the, the soccer coach and, and Greg's, the, the football coach. How can we work together to get some participation, you know, depending upon the seasons. Obviously we had the ability where I was at because they were not same season sports, but you can insert whichever one you want. Track and football, fall and spring, right? Make sure that those coaches are having communication with one another like hey, we share a student athlete. What are your expectations? What are they going to be doing certainly times of year because I want to make sure that they're ready for you, but at the same time, they got to be ready for me. And how can we have a little bit of a give and take here? And I think that some of our more successful programs saw that and they took advantage of it. You know, I. I felt like our track and field coach did a fantastic job working with our football coach, especially where we were at and in the area, you know, like, we had. A lot of kids are like, no, I'm. I'm a football player. And I love the example of like, no, hey, you guys, come here. You're going and you're going and playing basketball. We have the same thing with track. Hey, you guys, come here. Yeah, no, it's okay. You're going to miss out on this because you're going to go do that. And the coach knew in the back of mine, like, they're going to get more out of that than they would with this, you know, and it's being able to have that collaboration and understanding amongst your coaches. And a lot of that just comes with open dialogue and making sure that everybody's pulling in the right direction. So definitely appreciate those insights. I think that that's a good approach to it.
- [33:23]
B
You know, as the athletic director, you're the leader of the culture of your program. And I went to a school and coached at a school where, as I look back, I feel like it was pretty cutthroat between coaches. There wasn't necessarily a lot of alignment or agreement at times. And for sure, there was, like, arguing over kids. I mean, I could tell you, coach Bill Neiman, I love you, and he's a good friend now, but when I first started coaching girls soccer at my school, he was the really, really successful softball and girls basketball coach. And I remember summer practices like we had an open summer season and basically just seeing if we could do different nights or maybe I had a conflict one summer night practice, and his answer to me was, how many rings do you have? When I basically asked, when I asked Bill if he could go, like, say, on Wednesday night instead of Thursday night, because our kids were going to be in the middle, you know, and that's a tough, like, culture to exist in and for success overall. And then when I went to the school where I became the athletic director, like, I was so ready to have to be the referee and put out fires between, like, coaches and programs. And honestly, I'll give credit to John Baduk, who was the athletic director before me or whatever it was like, because everybody kind of worked together. It wasn't me it was just a different culture and a different mentality and it worked much better from my perspective.
- [34:56]
A
So that's awesome.
- [35:01]
B
I mean, I think we've touched on it a lot. But I'll just say, like anything else coaches can do to encourage kids to be multi sport athletes other than what we've already talked about, I think showing.
- [35:14]
A
Them the benefit of it, I think, you know, they can, they can highlight and this doesn't have to be your star athlete, like it doesn't have to be your, your, your five star blue chip or whatever it may be, but highlight the successes of the student athlete in the other sport to your program and then be able to kind of storytell and correlate to how that is benefiting them now. You know, like, hey, you know, they, they took some time away and they want to, they, they want a league title doing sport Z and we're really proud of them and we are seeing some of the benefits of that, you know, because now they're, they're more agile or they're, you know, they, they're, they're a step quicker because they've engaged other parts of their body that they maybe weren't doing here, you know, and just being able to highlight the wins that some of your student athletes are having. Outside of that, I think too, you know, talking to your, to your student athletes and finding out like, are there other areas that you're interested in getting to develop that relationship and rapport with your kids and getting to know what they are truly passionate about. And that is just like that's coaching 101. You've got to develop a relationship and engage with your kids and listening to them. But I do really, like, I had a couple of coaches throughout my career where they would highlight things that were not related to their sport, to the, but the wins that that student athlete was having in another sport sport and being encouraging of it and making sure like, hey, they're still a part of this program. They're stepping away for today because they've got a competition or they've got a practice or whatever, but making sure that they still feel very much a part of the program and at the same time highlighting those that may have decided they are a single sport athlete, hey, this is great what they're doing because that helps alleviate some of the peer pressure too because you're the leader of that group and they're looking to you and if you've got a coach that's sitting there bad mouthing, oh, you know, Scott's got to go and do this, what's going to happen? The kids are just going to go after them the same way. Like you're the adult in the room, you're the leader in the room. Find ways to champion student athletes that are participating in multiple sports. Because there's ebbs and flows with all sports. You see participation levels spike and begin to decline throughout every single season. You know, there's going to be years where your cross country team's huge. Next year it might be small, smaller, feed off of one another and try and help collective success rather than just trying to, you know, silo the kids. I know I've been saying silo a lot, but like there are some coaches out there that just want to kind of build a moat around the kids that they have and not allow them to go and experience anything else. So I think when they can go out there and they can highlight what student athletes are doing outside of their program, that really does a lot, not only for the, the self esteem of the student athlete that's doing multiple sports, but also those kids that are hearing the message that might be a single sport athlete as well. What are your thoughts?
- [38:04]
B
Yeah, I mean, listen, if, if the athletic director sets the culture for the athletic program, then the coach sets the culture for their team. And the last thing you said really resonated with me and that is like, how do you celebrate a kid maybe going off to another sport, maybe even missing something for your sport, versus trash that kid in front of others? Because it happens. And anybody listening, I'm sure, understands that it happens. You know, like if you can make sure that the kids understand that they did it for the right reason, that you're okay with it as the coach, like going to that second, you know, their other sport missing something for you, otherwise that peer pressure is going to come down hard on that kid and like that's going to hurt the culture of the program. So like, I really, that meant a lot to me with what you just said. That resonated for sure.
- [39:01]
A
I appreciate that. And I think that is a key thing that coaches have to realize. You know, I still remember things that were said to me by coaches 20 plus years ago. Right. You know, the impact that you have as a coach on a student athlete cannot be underscored. And you've got to take it seriously and you got to find ways to elevate them regardless of whatever their pursuits are. Right. That's our role. That's why we got into this, is because you want to help kids. So shifting from coaches, what role do you think parents play in being able to encourage or discourage multi sport participation.
- [39:36]
B
I mean we always talk about it being a village, right to raise these student athletes. So parents obviously, I mean if kids listen to parents, you hope they do at least as a parent I hope they do. But I mean listen, it's also getting on the same page with the coach. It's also making sure that the kids understand there may be some peer pressure and help them alleviate or give them strategies, tools to help them understand and make sure they don't feel all that peer pressure. Obviously if you are encouraging them, you're going to find ways to get kids there without complaining about waking up early in the mornings or driving or those kind of things. And obviously just the educational side of it to me, making sure they understand why it's important. And I guess again working in that it takes a village mentality. Bringing anybody else in that you need to help you accentuate that point and stress that point to them. Obviously there's the other end of discouraging and trying to put the, trying to make sure that they're, you know, number one in that one specific sport and making sure that they're going to be a scholarship kid and defining their athletic life as being more important, you know, in this place than another. And I mean, I don't know, that's certainly understandable at times. And there's certainly like dollar signs in parents heads too about how am I going to pay for college and how can, can we get this done? Because it's like the reality of it. So I guess parents just have to educate themselves just as much. They're going to make their own decisions, but making sure at least that the decision is an educated one.
- [41:26]
A
I think that's a great take on it, you know, because like ultimately like it is, parents are going to parent the way they want to parent. Right? And and some are going to be discouraging of multi sport athletes, which is unfortunate because I think that it really is a lot of great benefit to it. And there are certain things too where the dollar signs piece that you just spoke about, you know, whether it be, you know, dollar signs for college, parents may also be seeing like oh, dollar signs for multiple sports. I maybe I'm trying to discourage them from that because we, we can't afford it. That's where you got to be able to have a open dialogue with your athletic director and the sport coach and finding ways, you know, and being like, hey, can you help us out a little bit? Because they'd really like to participate and I know that there are countless coaches and ads throughout the country that are going to be more than willing to help facilitate that to ensure that a kid has an opportunity for them. And I think a lot of what you said too, just about the education piece, that's the biggest part of it. You know, have an understanding of why you are either pro or con multisport athletic development and be able to, to back up the argument not only just for yourself but also your student athlete. Your child is going to be asking questions like why can't I do this sport? You know, and I think that it really becomes like the education piece of understanding why your decision is that way. But I highly encourage, if there are parents listening to this multi sport student athletes, the amount of benefit that they get from taking time away from their quote unquote main sport and engaging in another activity, it is going to pay dividends. And you can ask collegiate recruiters, you can ask professional coaches, you can ask whomever they are going to always champion the multi sport student athlete because they've seen the development, I mean going way back to my earlier career, you know, prior to getting into the high school ranks, working in a university level in sport performance, you saw a, a multi sport student athlete come through the door as one of your recruits and you're like awesome. This is going to be fantastic. Because I know that they're going to have some proprioceptive mind body awareness and how to move in space and do these various things. You know, collegiate coaches love it. So I, I highly encourage parents that may be listening, study up on it because the benefits far outweigh whatever con you may be putting up in, in your mind or choosing to believe. So definitely a fun conversation for us to have though. I appreciate you, you joining me on this one today.
- [43:54]
B
Yeah, I would, I would finish up by just saying we talked about coaches and the way they talk about kids doing other sports and that kind of stuff. Same thing happens on the car ride home or at the dinner table with parents. And if they're trashing a kid in the program, right, because they weren't at the game or they were doing this or they were doing that, like that's that same mindset of kids are going to be listening. Like they see what you're doing, they watch you as they're as your kids. And so like it's the same idea making sure that the way you communicate that to your kids is done well and that it's in a positive way. So. Yes sir. Lots of fun it was.
- [44:32]
A
Well, I think that's going to do it for this edition of AD360. You know, as Scott and I have been saying, playing multiple sports is phenomenal for the student athletes development mentally, physically, all around, holistically. So hopefully you were able to get some good takeaways from this episode. In closing, if you liked what you heard today, stay tuned for future episodes. Please make sure you follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from so you don't miss any new episodes. And in closing, A.D. 360, I'm Greg Vandermayd.
- [45:04]
B
Scott Rosenberg until next time folks.
- [45:07]
A
Thank you.