B (2:42)

Yeah. So safe to say it's a little.

A (2:43)

Bit of an acquired taste then, right?

B (2:46)

If, if there are people who've acquired it, I've yet to meet them, I'll put it that way.

A (2:51)

Oh, that's fantastic. Well, we're, we're really excited to get underway. So as we start this conversation, I guess before we dive in, Wiley, maybe for our, our 80s that are tuning in and those listening that maybe not be familiar with your background, would you tell them a little bit about yourself? Just kind of your, your career path and your journey?

B (3:10)

Yeah. So I graduated high school in 2012, and I throw the year out there just from a streaming perspective. It was still fairly new. It wasn't brand new, but certainly at the high school level, it was still sort of coming around. The company Play on Sports was heavily involved when I was in school. And so I remember my junior year, this had been in the fall of 2010, that summer, really, I had a conversation with a faculty member that I was close with, Daniel Searle. And he basically told me, hey, we're going to be streaming video for our football games. And I'd always, I was always a huge sports fan. I had an interest in getting into broadcasting, but I kind of figured that'd be something I would start, you know, when I got to college or maybe even late in college when I'd have that opportunity. And all of a sudden it felt like, you know, opportunity had knocked when I was, you know, 15 years old and had just this spectacular opportunity to just do a lot of creative things, kind of start something new, almost like a new club. And I tell Dan all the time, there's. I've had a lot of fun over my career, a lot of experience I've enjoyed, but none have been more rich or richer than what I did in high school those couple of years. Because I tell people all the time, like, you know, when you're doing high school sports, you know, that's, that's the chance you have to cover your buddies. I mean, you know, I got My best friends are playing basketball or football, and that's. That's pretty special. So got started in high school with that. For a couple years, I went to Georgia Tech. They did not have a journalism degree whatsoever, but I knew they needed a baseball announcer on radio. And so I said, I'll do that and figure out what I'm gonna major in later. And by the time, you know, I was wrapping up my time at Georgia Tech, you know, ACC Network Extra or on the SEC side, SEC Network plus or ESPN plus, they were really starting to gain momentum. And mainly there were just resources being invested by the schools wanting to make those productions look as, you know, professional as possible. So it almost feels like, you know, my career kind of paralleled along with the rise of streaming, you know, not just at the high school level, obviously, at the college level, really. And those have been the opportunities that have been most valuable to me, you know, since, you know, I'm 30 years old now. So since I've graduated and, you know, I tell people, you know, the majority of the work I've done thus far has really been streaming. You know, I. The opportunities to get, you know, on linear television, you know, on a network, are obviously difficult, and you can only get those by proving you can do it. And so the way I was able to prove and work on my craft and reps and all those things is streaming. I've talked to broadcasters, you know, much more senior than me, who just marvel at the amount of opportunities and chances you have to get on the air. It used to be such a task trying to find a way to get on a linear broadcast, whereas now everybody's streaming their games, whether it's power five or mid major or D2, D3. I've done some NAIA broadcasts in my time, so, you know, and we can talk about the engagement, but from a professional development standpoint, that's one of the best things that's happened to the industry.

A (6:13)

That's such a great story, too, because you really look at it and seeing how it provided you the opportunity in your youth, if you will, and then so many doors open from there. And then I do think that's interesting. You know, you touched on the fact about how streaming is really kind of everywhere now at all levels. You know, it's across the board, professional sports all the way down to the high school, junior high ranks, if you will, and everywhere in between. And it really is getting some great exposure for a lot of programs, you know, regardless of sport, regardless of level, you're. You're having that ability to really kind of promote your program. So. That's fantastic.

B (6:51)

No, it's, it's, it's terrific. And I think the other piece too. I remember being in high school, we were doing those games those first, you know, couple of years, and I was a junior and a senior. It almost became like appointment viewing. Every Friday morning, every Monday morning, I should say, we'd go back and watch the highlights in the football game last week. And, you know, so and so would be, oh, I caught that touchdown. Oh, that's so cool. I get to watch it again or relive it or, you know, you know, it's a ton of fun for the students, I think, to get to, you know, revisit some really exciting things their classmates have done. Whether that's football, basketball, volleyball, softball, gymnastics, swimming, I mean, whatever. You know, it's a chance to sort of, you know, celebrate those in the community. And, you know, I mean, I know we had several examples where, you know, we'd have guys in the cross country team couldn't go to the football game because they had to wake up early on Saturday for the race. You know, they get to sort of relive what they missed, you know, that next week, and vice versa, really. So I think within the students themselves and of course the broader community of the school, parents, alumni, relatives, neighbors, you know, they also have access to it as well.

A (7:53)

That's fantastic.

C (7:56)

I love that too. Put my athletic director hat on or former. Just being able to get more kids involved. Right. Like a lot of athletic directors are also activity directors, club directors. And you're just always looking for opportunities for your students and your student athletes. And one of the things that Greg and I talk about all the time is leveraging the people in the building, right? There's so much talent walking around the average high school in America. Some are great at sports, some aren't. Some love sports and are great at sports. Some love the media aspect. And I think it, again, it just helps you as an athletic director, provide opportunities for your students. And I mean, that's why you're in the business and that's why I love education based athletics. So I love your story, man. It's amazing.

B (8:46)

And I'll add too, I think the reason that the program was so successful in my high school was really because of the leadership of Daniel Searle, who was our faculty advisor for the program. He had been a varsity coach, a basketball. He had been in a bunch of different roles. He'd been involved in admissions and all these sorts of things. And I think the Best thing he did. I mean, truly the. To me, the secret behind the whole success of the program was how much he empowered students to be a part of it. If you just, he couldn't have done all the work that it was going to take just by himself. He had to rely upon the students. And his attitude was always, if you have an idea, go do it. And it's not, you know, not only am I giving you an opportunity to do it, but you need to take accountability for it. You know, I can't be somebody who's constantly checking in, you know, did we set up this meeting? Did we save time to edit those types of things? So it was kind of a, yeah, I'm giving you the green light, but you have to be the one that's, you know, providing the fuel and the attention to it. And I think that was one of the reasons that we got such great buy in from our high school students. And even, honestly, as the years went by, middle school students as well, we even have, I went to A K through 12 school, there were some elementary students who would be involved with some projects down in their school as well. But particularly at the high school level, I just think it's such a terrific opportunity to not only get them excited and try something different, but also learn how to be accountable and how to follow through and all those things. And again, I think at any organizational level, whether it's full time employment, I mean, the more you can empower employees or students, the more ownership they feel. And I really think more times than that it's going to lead to a really rewarding outcome.

C (10:32)

This guy's a Hall of Famer, OG because I mean, this was early on and thinking exactly what you said. Think about having the faith in your students. Some of this was live. Right. So you're not only like turning over ownership to your student, they're live and streaming and I mean, come on, it takes a special person. I think everybody's used to it now, but I love that because again, he put a lot of faith in you guys to do the right thing at age 13, 14, 15, 16, which, let's be honest, doesn't always happen.

B (11:01)

Yeah, And I think he, I think he recognized too that look, we all want it to look like it's, you know, on cbs, abc, Fox, whatever, you know, espn. But it's a high school production. And considering people watching that recognize that, I think because they usually probably have some level, they may have a child in school or they may have a niece or a nephew and they're aware that 15, 16 year olds, it may not be 100%, but if you give them an opportunity, it might be better than you thought it was going to be. I think the whole culture of it, I think, is you can trust your audience and your viewership to realize that, you know, I'm not watching the 7 o' clock news, you know, on ABC and expecting it to be totally buttoned up. And, and honestly, we all know this. I mean, it's kind of fun to watch a 14 year old, they might say, you know, I mean, going back to the Bill Cosby, you know, kids say the darkest things. I mean, it can be pretty entertaining as well.

C (11:53)

If you have the right mindset, it makes it special. Right. Like, Greg, did you ever have like school musicals and stuff? I used to fight sometimes with people because they would bring in like professional musicians for the orchestra. And I'm like, I would rather listen to the 14 year old trumpet player squeak or make a mistake during it than having some Joe off the street who's like getting paid to be there, who's at the like New York Philharmonic. I'd rather hear it that way. So it's more genuine.

B (12:18)

Yeah, more authentic. It's, it gives it to me, it gives it some soul and some character. You know, I think that's what really. And that's what high school productions are about in my book. I mean, it's, it's such a personal relationship. I mean, I, I've heard, you know, professional athletes talk about, you know, what they miss about high school and competing at that level is anybody who goes to a high school football game or high school basketball, high school, you name it, they've got a personal relationship with somebody on the field. You don't have that in the NFL. You have some of it in college or, you know, at the professional level. But, you know, and that's not to say that, you know, there's a rush there. There's millions of people watching. I mean, there's, there's a lot of positives to those aspects. But one of the coolest things about a high school event is anybody who's there really has a vested interest in somebody on the field. From a human standpoint, it's not solely about wins and losses. It's much more of a relationship driven event and sort of a celebration of community.

A (13:17)

That's fantastic to hear. I completely agree with Scott too, in terms of you want to see the kids doing this. That's why you go to these things. Like you want to support them, you want to provide them that opportunity because I mean, your story is just so incredible because at an early age you had a path laid out for you that you were able to really leverage and be able to grow into over the years going on. And it's just a unique opportunity. And I think from the streaming perspective, not only are you broadening the campus involvement within those respective programs, if you will, but you're also providing ownership there too, you know, and you're being able to kind of expand upon what education based athletics can really touch on and have an impact with. And it's not now. I mean, when I was younger it was more limited to those that were on the court, the field, etc. Now it's, it's a broader brush that's being stroked. Right. You know, you're being able to have so much more impact with, with young people and providing a potential career path. So it really is a very cool story to hear about the, the empowerment that you were given at a young age and, and being able to really kind of grow into the role that you're in now from a very early start, that's, that's just so, so awesome to hear.

B (14:34)

And the thing I'll add too is, you know, I did a lot of theater, you know, I guess practice or after school programs or whatnot when I was elementary school and middle school. And I remember the woman who was running it would always talk about, you know, this isn't necessarily about, you know, all of you becoming Broadway stars. You know, she would tell our parents that, but it'd be more about just getting in front of a crowd and being able to speak. And I think there's something to be said for that as well. In broadcasting, getting in front of a camera and being able to deliver a message, being comfortable and communicating an idea. I don't care what world of or you know, what professional world or industry you enter, that's going to be a valuable skill in any industry. So whether or not it's a long term career path that is directly involved in broadcasting or media, or maybe you just become a leader at your company or heck, if you come back and be a high school coach. I mean, the idea of sharing ideas and communicating, that's just a skill that is just critical for any organization.

C (15:32)

I think that, yeah, that communication, poise, I use that word sometimes. My daughter's a dancer and like, one of the things I appreciated about her dancing is just, I feel like she's got more poise than some others just because she's always on the stage in front of people and very transferable skills. So I think that's amazing. All right, let's, let's dive back in a little bit. You brought up the idea of fan engagement early on here. And so from your perspective, what sort of engagement for the fan base do you see through streaming that maybe you don't get in other places? And what's the advantage to that, streaming for your fan base and engagement?

B (16:11)

Well, I think that the thing with streaming, and again, I guess I think of streaming as something that's put on locally by the school, you know, and I guess I'm thinking more in the college space now. But you know, when Georgia Tech or Auburn, those are a couple schools I work for, when they stream their games, you know, they're not picked up by a national network, cbs, espn, whatever, it gives you a really unique opportunity because you kind of have, you know, inside sources, you know, some stories because you're part of the organization on a day to day basis, 365 days out of the year that you can really give some insight that, you know, with all due respect to the professionals who come in, they're just, they're not going to have. Because they're not there year round, you know, they're not there in the fall or in the faculty meetings or anything else. I think high school is the same way where you can just, you have so much more ownership of what is, you know, on the screen, I suppose. So not only do you have that inside information, but, you know, one thing we had a ton of success with when I was in high school. I remember we could promote everything else going on at the school. You know, we'd be all right. You know, first quarter. You know, football obviously got a lot of viewership, so first quarter timeout. Hey, by the way, we've got, you know, Le Mis the musical, you know, opens up, you know, next week and you know, they're showing Thursday at 7 o', clock, Friday at 7 o', clock, Saturday at 1. And the cool thing is because we're all the same community, we could have whoever was the lead in Le Miz come on at halftime and talk about how, you know, you come see this and that and, you know, so and so has got a great solo and we'd love to see you, you get your tickets here and you know, so whether those things or the other pieces, you know, we could promote fundraising efforts. Hey, you know, the alumni base is doing a drive, you know, here in November, trying to boost participants participation. If you want to give it just, it kind of gives you your own channel. And I'm sure social media kind of works the same way, but it gives you a channel to where you can incorporate all sorts of different messaging and important, you know, important ventures or efforts that, that somebody else in the community is making. You can then, you know, patch it into your live streaming. And I think because everyone, you know, I shouldn't say everyone, but there's a large audience watching the game, right? You just, it gives you a chance to get in front of a lot of people's eyeballs. And it's the same idea with advertising at the professional level, except I think instead of it being more of a revenue driven thing, it can be more of a community building and really community engaging opportunity. If you're at a high school and say, hey, watch our stream, you know, if it's a big rivalry game, you know, you're a lot of people tuned in, that gives you a chance to sort of share other messages that you might, you know, want to get across to the community.

C (18:45)

Yeah, I love that. Greg, what do you think?

A (18:47)

You know, I really like a couple things that you just mentioned that really kind of struck a chord with me. One, there's the autonomy within streaming. You have a little bit more flexibility. I like when earlier you were talking about the accountability, obviously you're going to be empowering students to be able to really broaden their skill set, if you will, but the autonomy within your broadcast to kind of promote various things. I really like the takeaway of talking about other things that are taking place on the campus because as both Scott and I, as former ads and being on those school sites, one of the things you're always thinking about is like, how do we get exposure for everything that's going on on campus? How do we get that message out? And you're provided that opportunity, you know, like you're, you give the example of fundraisers. Hey, Performing arts has an event coming up this Friday. Don't forget to get your tickets, et cetera. You know, so I really like those elements of it. I think that it's a great way for, for you to really kind of quote, unquote, advertise. And when you were talking about like the social media, social media piece, obviously that's always going to be a big prevalent part of what every organization is doing, whether that's professional sports, all the way down to youth leagues, if you will, there's going to be that social media engagement. But the one takeaway that I got from the streaming element was you have an actively engaged audience and then you can really kind of position those other campus activities that are taking place. Those were some big takeaways for me because it's just providing further light onto what takes place on your campus to those that are already engaged and being able to really kind of build upon that campus engagement. And maybe folks that were really into the basketball game, they're watching now, they're like, hey, I want to go and support this performing arts piece that's going to be going on. So some great takeaways from that. I appreciate it.

B (20:34)

Yeah. And the other thing I'd add too is we were talking about how when you're at a high school game, everyone in the stands is heavily invested and somebody on the floor. I think that extends to the audience watching the stream. You know, I mean, look, if you're watching an NFL game, you'll go in and out. You know, it just depends on how close you're watching it. But I think anybody who's going out of their way to pull up the stream of, you know, you're choosing out a high school basketball game, they're not just doing so just to have something on the background. They're heavily invested. And so to your point, Greg, they're a captivated audience. Probably even, you know, they're, they're an audience that I think the NFL, I keep going to the NFL, the, the major league, NBA, whatever they wish their audience was, was as engaged and captivated as yours is. Now granted, yours is of course smaller, but I again, I think the attention and, and, and again that how captivated they are is much, much higher than you would get on a larger scale. Broadcast.

A (21:31)

Absolutely. Okay, so shifting gears a little bit, you know, like we, we talked about this a little bit in terms of like how most people's minds go directly towards the professional or collegiate rep realm when it comes to streaming. But in your experience, you've seen all levels. How does that streaming impact play in the high school world? How much of an impact does being able to provide streaming to a high school fan base, what does that do for that fan base? Give us your thoughts on that.

B (22:01)

Well, I think it just makes it more accessible. I think we talk about, even at the, you know, this is obviously a long time ago, but you know, when every game is started to be on television, we're going decades back now for, for whether it's professional or college. All of a sudden it just became so much more, so much easier to, to follow a team on a, on a game by game basis or an event by event basis. And I Think. You know, I remember going in middle school, we'd hear about, you know, the eighth grade, you know, soccer team won their game six to one. You know, it was just something, it was, it was an announcement we would get over the loudspeaker, you know, which I guess sounded good. But I think with anything, if you can see it and you can really watch it, it just as a human being, you're going to be a little more invested in it. So I think what it does more than anything, it just, it keeps your, your fan base, your audience connected and it feels like they're more of a part of it. They're not just reading, you know, what was the box score in this, in the student paper? It was, you know, I saw that goal that so and so scored. You're not just hearing about, oh, you should have seen that bicycle kick they had. It's like, no, I saw it on the stream. That was wild. And now all of a sudden you've got a highlight you can be playing in a school assembly or you've got something, you know, that they can throw on tic Tac or TikTok or social media and boom, it's, you know, everybody's talking about it. So I just, I think it is just such a, easier way to connect with the accomplishment of a classmate or a peer by seeing it, by really seeing as opposed to just hearing it. Word of mouth, which is obviously how things have, you know, always gone. It seems, you know, as far as the history of humanity, all of a sudden we have this ability to televise things and it's, and it's again, being able to do at the high school level to me is just so impactful. I mean, we're used to watching pro sports, seeing those highlights. The next thing you know, you can have a highlight from the, you know, junior varsity lacrosse game that all of a sudden is accessible. And I think that just gets everybody's buy in and attention a lot better than just hearing it over the loudspeaker during announcements, you know, Monday morning.

A (24:02)

And I really like that loudspeaker analogy, right, Because I remember, I mean, Scott, you and I remember years and years ago when we were young kids and we're sitting in school and you hear the announcement of, you know, the baseball team won three to four or whatever. It didn't really resonate, you know, like, hey, cool, you guys won. Whereas I think when you have that streaming component, you're enabling them to tell their story in real time. You know, like you can see that team story Evolve and develop in front of you as the action's taking place. And going back to your point of just like the engagement element, you know, when you're seeing the results and seeing how things are playing out, it paints a better picture and much better story. And I would, I would definitely venture to say it's going to get far more engagement when you have that ability and you start getting a larger following because of it. What are your thoughts, Scott?

C (24:52)

Well, first of all, most of my friends, if they heard their name on the announcements, it wasn't for a positive thing, let's be honest. So let's go there first to hey man, like, I would kill to have some like better film of me as an athlete at least. I mean I know my stories have gotten much better over the years, but it'd be nice to show my kids like without trying to get that VHS machine out and find some like really chopped up video playing. So like this is like there in perpetuity if you think about it. Yes, the ability to grab clips and things like that. Sometimes the film doesn't lie isn't always the best part of everything. But when there's, you know, great things happen. I use the word celebrate, right? Like this just helps you celebrate community a lot of times. And then obviously like the idea of somebody like I we're in, I'm in the New York City like metro area here and I mean I never understood how so many parents got to four o' clock games, to be honest with you, especially pre Covid when everybody was in the office. But I mean, I mean we could probably create a marketing campaign, Greg, for productivity. Like, you know, people had to leave work to get to games early. Like you could literally sit at work, watch your kids game and then get back to work if you needed to. So grandma in another state like outside the zip code, right. Kind of stuff where it's just, it opens up such a world of accessibility. Somebody used that term. So having it at the high school level, it just seems, I guess as old as I am. It just seems like something that it was so far away, such a short time ago and yet it's been ingrained already in everything that we're doing for, for a while now.

B (26:32)

So it's amazing and, and this story is, is a little heavy but, but I think it really is can be impactful as far as the value of, of streaming these games. I remember we were, we were doing a playoff run in football. We were going to the quarterfinals or something. Our team pulled off big wins. We were all excited. We were packing up the equipment. We got on our little, you know, broadcast streaming bus. You know, our. You know, we weren't riding with the team, obviously, but I remember before we left, the head football coach got onto our bus, stood up and said, I can't thank you all enough. You know, my father has been extremely sick, and he. I mean, pretty much on his deathbed, and he said the reason he stayed alive as long as he did was because he knew the game was coming up on Friday night, and we were in the quarterfinals. And, you know, I'm still very close to our head coach to this day, and he just insists that that was one of the reasons his father lasted as long as he did was so he could watch the game on Friday. And again, that's. That's obviously an extreme example, but I think it also is. It paints a picture, and it's. It's not all that uncommon. It means so much to relatives. Yeah. So real.

C (27:47)

It's. It's real. Like, I. I'll. I'll piggyback another heavy one. I had a dad with advanced ALS who was stuck in a bed with triplets on our football team who, like, you know, early on, we could get him to the game and handicap spots and, you know, but there was a point where, unfortunately, he couldn't get there, and he got to watch his kids play for a long time, and it just would not have been possible without it. So those stories are everywhere, unfortunately. But fortunately, at the same time.

B (28:19)

All right, I said the last thing I was going to add, too, is on a lighter note. You know, I'm now 10 years out of high school, and, you know, not every time, but half the time I get together with my buddies, we're talking about something that, you know, happened in high school in a football game. We can go back and watch it. Like, we can go pull it up, you know, how cool is that? I mean, I. You know, I know they were. I've talked to many people older than me, and they still talk about, oh, so and so, caught this dramatic pass in the quarterfinal, and they're describing it with tremendous detail, but at the end of the day, it's still just word of mouth when you get to see it and again, having those moments for posterity. I mean, you want to talk about keeping that community together, you know? You know, I don't know, getting alumni excited about, you know, maybe giving back to the school 10, 15 years from now when you can sit there and say, remember that time, you know, we beat south on the Dramatic last second play and we stormed the field. I mean, how does that not get your school spirit and pride and going say, you know what? Yeah, you know, I mean, again, you know, this is maybe a little too transactional, but. No, I think it helps in fundraising, quite honestly, and in keeping alumni involved, because those memories all of a sudden are so much more accessible than just sort of distantly in your mind, the.

C (29:28)

The Kenny Chessy song, like Boys of Fall. They talk about, like the newspaper clippings in the coffee shop.

B (29:33)

Yes, yes.

C (29:33)

I have actually seen people with tv, like businesses with TV monitors up that actually replay high school streamed games for, like, that hometown feel.

B (29:44)

Yes.

C (29:44)

Literally in that coffee shop. So no more newspaper clipping, per se, but how about that streaming video on the. On the screen? How cool would that be?

B (29:53)

Absolutely.

C (29:56)

Awesome. So, I mean, you're lucky enough to be involved. You've been involved at the high school, collegiate and professional level at this point. Anything that stands out to you between, like, you kind of touched on it a little bit. Difference between the high school streaming up all the way to, like, Major League baseball streaming, what do you see the major difference as?

B (30:18)

I think what jumped out to me is there. There weren't that many differences, honestly. I mean, the equipment's nicer. You. You've probably got people operating the equipment who are a little more experienced, but the process, you know, the. The quote unquote, farm to table, the, you know, the, you know, from the nuts and bolts to the screen is. It's pretty similar. And I think that goes back to just how valuable the experiences can be as a student if you do end up somewhere in this field. Again, the vocab. The terminology might be different, so on and so forth, or, you know, might, you know, be some mild differences there. But the similarity of it, quite honestly, was probably what was most surprising to me as I continue to move up the ladder. And obviously, the more cameras you're adding, the more replay machine, you know, all of a sudden. Yeah, replay, which is very uncommon, obviously at the streaming level at high school. But as far as covering the game and setting up the audio and working on transmission and all these other details, the process is very similar. And I think that's one of the things. I mean, I remember going to high school, I grew up in Atlanta, so occasionally we'd go down to a Georgia Tech basketball game and go look inside the production truck and, you know, they'd show us the station and be like, oh, we call that something different, but we know exactly what this, what this role does or, oh yeah, that's how we do it too, you know. So I think again, aside from just the resources and the manpower and obviously you've got, you know, full adults doing the work as opposed to, you know, maybe a sophomore in high school, there are differences there. But as far as the, the process and kind of, again, how you kind of go from, you know, here's the game happening on the field, to get it on the screen somewhere is, is actually really similar.

C (32:04)

Very cool. Yeah. And I mean, listen, we're advancing pretty quickly too. I, I think replay and things like that between the major companies that are out there right now streaming, I think that's coming if it's not there already. Right. Like, we're obviously a little, a little behind, but it's common and I think it's, it's pretty amazing to think about. Greg, thoughts?

A (32:24)

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that as you're talking about, like, the similarities between the two and then, Scott, to your point of like, things that are forthcoming and, you know, it, it really tries to mirror, it seems like what's going on in the professional realm. Right. And I think Wiley, you had mentioned earlier where a lot of times people are tuning in and they're, they're being understanding of the skill level of those that are broadcasting.

C (32:45)

Right.

A (32:46)

They're, they're not going to be anticipating, you know, a seasoned professional. They're anticipating someone that's, you know, up and coming and learning these skill sets. And I think that that's, that's a great part of it. But Scott, to your point, I mean, like, with it wanting to mirror what's taking place at the higher levels, I think that it's driving the demand within those major companies to make the advancements, to try and make it as similar as possible and as what's taking place at the professional and collegiate ranks. And I mean, in this day and age too, I've never ceased to be amazed by how much young people know about technology and how they can leverage it. And there's certain times where, like, I've tuned into a stream and I'm watching something like, how did they do that? And it's, it's really innovative to, to see how they're, they're engaging with the platform. So certainly pretty cool to see what's, what's coming down the pipe. And I would imagine it's just going to continue to grow and expand in terms of what schools are going to be able to do. You know, obviously it's never going to be the same as at the level that you're at, where you're having like multi cams at every single event and all, all the bells and whistles, if you will. But I feel like there's going to be more and more of those elements to strive to make it as professional.

C (33:55)

As possible, like harnessing and leveraging that skill for good as opposed to bad. I mean, it's the truth though, right? Like, come on, let's like, so providing a tech, a tool and a forum for people to do it for the use their skills for the right reasons, pretty amazing. It's up to the adults to make sure they leverage that.

B (34:19)

Yeah, no, and again, I think I thought one of the more powerful motivators was when you would hear from, maybe it's a classmate of yours. Hey, my mom has been out of town the last couple of weeks. She got to watch. Dude, I just can't tell you how much I appreciate doing that. Or maybe you hear from the parent directly. And one of the favorite comments I would always get when I was in high school and even early on in college is I would hear from the parent of an athlete and they'd say, man, you're, you're better than the guys they have on NFL on Fox. Or you're, you're, you're better than the guys they have doing the Mets game. And I would always say, oh, that's very kind, I appreciate it. And then, you know, I kind of tell that story to my parents. Like. Yeah, you know, I think the biggest difference between me and the guy doing the Mets game is I'm saying their kid's name a lot and I think they think that's really cool.

C (35:00)

So I got, I would like to point out. Hold on, Wiley. I would like to point out that you could have used the Braves there, but you just use the Mets. Like, let's be straight up. I got you, Gary.

B (35:11)

Gary, Keith and Ron are the gold standard in my book. Man. Those guys, those guys are terrific. So I, I again, real recognized real, I guess is how, is how they would say it.

C (35:23)

There you go.

A (35:24)

Oh, that's fantastic. Know, so one thing I want to kind of pick your brain on a little bit. I mean, you've seen it at all levels. You've seen it the professional, you've seen it at the collegiate ranks. Kind of talking from the, the high school and even the collegiate a little bit. How do you see how streaming really kind of builds that campus community spirit, you know, like, of, of being able to have that, that sense of pride around the organization. What are your Thoughts on that?

B (35:50)

Well, I think it's. It. It's. I think it's. Other than what we've talked about, where you can go back and revisit moments and. And retell those stories, I think there's also, at least I found when I was in high school, and granted, this is a long time ago, but there was kind of this ownership of, like, oh, yeah, like, you know, our school. Yeah, we cover every game. Like, we're going to be there. There's kind of like almost like a pride factor with, like, yeah, like, you know, at my school, we, you know, we cover it really well. You know, we're. We're going to be there. We're going to have our four cameras. You know, we're going to have our replay, if that's an option. You know, we're going to have our pregame show going on. And I actually remember. And again, this isn't necessarily live streaming, but we started a sort of a weekly news show when I was in school, and I'm sure everybody's doing that, but for whatever reason, my class. All of a sudden, one of the most anticipated parts of the whole report was the weather report. And it wasn't because people were curious about the weather, but it was like, who's going to be the weather person this week? Like, it'd be kind of like a surprise. Like, oh, who got to do it this week? You know, it almost became like this big reveal. And, you know, one week we'd have, you know, somebody who's, you know, maybe a soloist, you know, in the choir, you know, would do it and they would sing it or something, you know, something like that. So it almost became like this, like, thing people would talk about as, like, oh, man, you know, I hope, you know, I get to do the weather or something again. It's something so innocuous and use. I mean, the wet. We do a weekly weather report. By the time you get to the third day, you have no idea if that's gonna be accurate or not. But it really just became kind of a. And it also, quite honestly, you know, became an opportunity to be kind of creative, too. Like, we had one guy come in and just wore a sweater vest, you know, like, that was kind of. That started a whole chain of, like, what are you going to wear? Doing, you know, somebody wear, like a robe or something? Like, it became this, like, total little stick. Almost like we were doing a comedy show, almost. But again, I think that just creates the connectivity across the whole class. It was something we could all kind of look forward to and laugh about. And again, I, to the teacher's credit, I thought they did a good job of making sure it was, it wasn't just, you know, one basketball player pass it off to the next basketball player. I mean, it's an opportunity to kind of have all different, you know, groups and clubs and teams represented. And I think again, kind of gives you a chance to show some personality too. You know, that coming from that, from that pocket of the community.

C (38:11)

Those shows are amazing. Like those Friday, Monday shows. I mean, I've been a part of those and not doing them, but watching them and looking forward to it again. It's. I hear you, man. Building that community is amazing. So talk to me a little bit about if you could. If there was a school, an athletic director, an advisor out there right now who's kind of like teetering between, do we go in this direction, not even necessarily streaming direction, but maybe more of like a self production kind of direction, what would you say to them to convince them one way or the other? You've kind of said a lot of it, but. And what advice might you give them as they're maybe starting out?

B (38:52)

I think, I think the first thing I would say is, you know, if you're watching a school that maybe has been doing it for 10 years and you see five cameras and replays and scorebox on the ground, don't feel like you either have to do it that way or you can't do it at all. I think it is so important just to not feel like there's either got to do it at level 10 or not at all. I think everybody who's done this has started at about level one or two. And I think the most important thing in my mind is just getting it started. I mean, I'll be honest, you know, once, once the baseball season's over, I'll do kind of a web stream game in football for our local public broadcasting station. They have their, their main show, which is more like a real telecast. And then they have this secondary web game they offer. We do one camera. One camera, one announcer. There's no first down markers, but again, when the alternative is the game is not on at all, people are thrilled to have the one camera show and it doesn't require an army of 15 students, you know, or 20 students showing up. You can do it, you know, with just a couple of really invested and committed students. And I think again, going back to my faculty advisor in high school, that was one of the best things he did, was there wasn't a roster of positions to where we have to have somebody working camera 1, 2, 3, board operator, a director, a producer. And if, and if we didn't have a name besides each of those roles, we couldn't do the game. I think you just, you've got to be willing to be flexible, variable, you know, okay, hey, this is a road game that's two hours away. You're not going to have your whole roster potentially. And that was the other thing I thought that was really effective as well, is that our advisor did not run it like it was a varsity sport to where it was. You can't miss a practice, you can't miss a game. You've got to be there. It was very much a come and go as you please, which again, I'm not saying there's not value in having that commitment and discipline and all those types of things, but it was kind of an alternative to where whenever somebody was there, it was, they really wanted to be. And it felt more, quote, unquote, fun, sort of a fun activity as opposed to accountability. And, you know, I think, you know, what you look for and I think what worked out really well, it actually wasn't so much in my class, but just talking to him over the years, he would try and identify, okay, there's this group of four in the class of 2027 that seems really bought into this leverage, that group. You know, once you can get a few people committed, take advantage of, hey, these guys are all, or, you know, these, these girls or guys are all friends. You know, they enjoy doing this. You know, we, this, this is kind of a good nucleus to kind of build around in the same way that you might, you know, try and develop a basketball, football, softball, baseball team. Is, hey, you know, this, this group of freshmen, man, they've got, you know, some really good talent. You know, this, this could be a group that really grows as they move up through high school. And I think you can kind of identify similar things from a media standpoint and as much as broadcasting standpoint. And that can be as much technical know how or skill as much as it's just commitment, you know, they, they find it interesting. Capitalize on that, you know, and empower that group. And I think like anything, you know, if you see a group of people having a lot of fun, it draws you. Maybe, maybe I want to do that. And I think it almost became a word of mouth sort of recruiting tools when you could sit there and say, like, you know, hey, is. Is doing the broadcast this week? Like, is that like Can I do that? And you say, yeah, sure, come along. And, and people would ask like, well, I got to be there for every game. It's like, no, just, you know, whatever you want to do it. You know, I think it's just. To me, I think it made it a very accessible and attractive extracurricular activity for maybe somebody who wasn't playing a sport that season or maybe, you know, the, the performing arts, you know, it was over for the, for the semester or whatnot. And again, I think more times than not, we found people who got introduced to it. All of a sudden they'd say, you know what? I want to make this a priority. Like, I want this to kind of be something I'm a big part of and have an opportunity to grow here and be in a leadership position, all those sorts of things. So I thought that was the two things were he did not make it mandatory. He did not want to compare it to a varsity sport. And two, it was. He was willing to broadcast based on the person. You know, you hear all the time about every game is different when you're, when you're game planning, you got a game planning, your personnel, you know, what, what's available to you that week. And I think this, he took a similar playbook to, all right, who we got this week and kind of cater it to that it doesn't need. We had four cameras last week. Maybe we're going to have six this week or only two. You know, I think having the end goal just be. Get something on the air. And I do think, having said that, consistency is really important. I think in any media form, like if you're going to broadcast the football game, you want to make sure you want to try and do as many as you can. Because what you want to do is build that relationship with your audience that when it gets to be Friday night at 7 o', clock, they know the game's going to be on. You know, if you're able to provide that consistently to where they can rely upon it, it can start to become more of a routine and you can build a better commitment. So I do think again, it doesn't have to be the same caliber of product every time out, but I think it is critical to try and at least provide something at a consistent time frame, you know, or whenever the team is playing, just know, hey, something's going to be there. I think there's a lot of value in that.

C (44:24)

So many good call outs there. Roster management, right. We could use that term and it comes back to athletics. But hey, like, honestly, you don't want to have all seniors on the roster because you're in trouble next year, right? You got to empower those younger kids, give them some responsibility, give them some playing time so that like, it's not like just a complete rebuild the next having them, like you said, more engaged because they're choosing to be there. I mean, I was a history teacher. I had a lot more kids enthusiastic about sports in American culture than world history, where they had to be in that class. And then the technology, right, like your thought of, hey, it doesn't have to be a huge production every time. And listen, let's be clear. With the technology and these AI cameras, no matter which company you're working with, like, you don't necessarily need a full production. But as long as that consistency is there and like, hey, these two weeks, it's just the stream of the game, you're not going to really hear much at all. But now we got some special games where we're going to be able to have a full crew doing it. Like, all those things resonate a ton with me.

A (45:29)

Greg, you know, exactly. The consistency peaks that, that really hits home, you know, because. Yes. Is, is it always going to be the exact same level of production? No, there's, there's always going to be that fluid element when you're, when you're involved in the high school space. And I think that ads need to remember that, you know, it's not always going to be a cookie cutter production, that you have your full lineup because things take place, you're dealing with technology, maybe you're on the road and you don't have the hookups that you thought or were told you were going to have. And being able to have that flexibility within it, I think that's a key takeaway for ADS is, hey, be consistent with it, support it, allow some fluidity to it. You know, don't make it as regimented as you would like.

B (46:13)

A.

A (46:13)

It's it. It's not fall camp for football, right? Like, you want to make sure they're going to get in, they're going to get out of it, what they put into it. And if they were truly wanting to go down a career path similar to yourself, obviously they're going to be more engaged into it because they see the value of it. But I really like that consistency piece because then obviously for your fan base, they know, hey, to your point, every, every Thursday girls basketball game, we know it's going to be broadcast. Let's make sure that we're Getting involved. Hey, who's calling the game tonight? Not sure, but we know that we're going to be able to actually watch it, and I think that that's a key takeaway. And one final question for me that I kind of want to just pick your brain about. I know we've been kind of gearing this towards, you know, how schools can engage with this and, you know, the campus involvement. If there were a couple pieces of advice you would give to a young person that is potentially wanting to. To go down a similar career path as you, and they want to get their start utilizing streaming at the, at the high school level. What were some of the skills that you learned early on that benefited you throughout your career? If you'd be willing to share those with maybe some of our. Our younger folks that might be tuning in?

B (47:24)

Yeah, I think the thing that I always think about, you know, we called our, our stream wcat. We were the Wildcat, so we kind of made a little, four little call sign for it. WCAT is what we called it. I remember. You know, obviously, I think a lot of people have interest in being on the air. I think that's obviously an attractive position just because, you know, you get to hear your voice and vanity and everything else. But I thought one thing that really made our group really good was everybody, no matter what your role was that day you were helping set up, you know, you'd run, you, you'd run the cable down to the sideline for the sideline camera, or you would, you know, set up, you know, the cameras on top of the press box. Everybody needed to know how to do almost everything. I'm not saying, you know, you didn't. You want to keep consistency in roles just from a standpoint of, you know, the more you do something you're going to be. But I think that was a really important part of our culture is, you know, some people, when the game's over, you know, especially for us in football, the game would end and all of a sudden all the, all the players and then the other students are mobbing down on the field. And I think for us it's like, well, you can't do. We can't do that yet. We got, we got to clean up our stuff. And I think that really kind of gives you a good team culture. For me. So I think that was the first thing is wanting to learn how to do all sorts of different things and being committed. I think it just kind of helped our culture. So that was one thing, is make sure that you're not just there, just to roll in there. And I'm the announcer. And then as soon as the game's over, like rip, see you guys on Monday. I think that's important. And then I think too, I mean, I think I'm a really good example of this. You know, when I was in high school, obviously I did a lot of the, the announcing. And then when I went to college, you know, the first thing I was, I was doing a lot of the technical stuff behind the scenes and then eventually got to do some more announcing stuff. And I think my work with the Braves is a great example. I've been doing their sideline reporting at times this year, but when I'm not doing that, I've been running the score bug. You know, I'm the one who does the balls and the strikes on the little bug so you can tell what score is in the count. Or I'm the one who's doing the graphics, you know, sponsored by, you know, Sabaro or whoever, the sponsor. I'm the one who comes up with that content and builds that for the show. You know, I'm, you know, I've done a little looking into replay and how that works. And I think not only a. I told people this all the time, but this might actually be the, I'm 30 years old. This might be the first year where I actually make more money doing stuff on air than behind the scenes. You know, the on air stuff to me was that was kind of the long term goal. It was, you know, where my passion was. But, you know, I'm, I'm interested in having an apartment that has running water and lights. Right. I mean, that's, that's also something I'm interested in, putting food on the table. And I made a lot of, a lot more consistent money doing a lot of these behind the scenes roles. And so not only was that a way for me to sustain my pursuit of this, because if you end up in a spot where you say, okay, I'm gonna do the games, but if I have to do this more than two years, just the money's not going to work out, all of a sudden it feels like you're kind of cutting yourself short. Because it does take, at least not for everybody, but my experience takes a long time to sort of, you know, create these opportunities. So the more Runway you can give yourself by having other skills, ways to contribute beyond just, you know, being in front of the camera, I think can give you a chance to outlast a lot of other people who are pursuing similar you know, career goals, and then two, when you get to wherever you want to be. You know, I've heard stories. Brian Anderson's a great example. Brian does Major League Baseball, postseason on tbs. He's the voice of the Milwaukee Brewers. Does a ton of NBA on TNT and all these sorts of things. His first role in television, he was a grip running cable, you know, behind a camera. And then he went into audio. And now again, he's still calling games while he's doing all of this. But, you know, that was kind of the playbook I tried to go after was, let me call games. And then when I need to make money, instead of just being a. A waiter or something that's not really adjacent to the industry, maybe I can get in and contribute in other ways. And one of the things, you know, Brian's got a terrific reputation. One of the things that sticks out to anybody who works with them, no matter what role you're in. It feels like he knows what your challenges are, you know, as a replay op, what are your challenges? Or is it as an audio tech, you know, what. What makes things difficult for you? And he knows that because he's pretty much done all those jobs, you know, and I. And I think there's just so much value in that. It gives you so much credibility with your crew, your co workers, and it gives you just kind of that second nature insight into how. What it takes to pull this thing off. And again, I think that plays not only at the highest levels, you know, Major League Baseball or NBA or whatever, but also in high school, again, I think if you know how the graphics machine works, you know, what your buddy's dealing with over there, you know, you can appreciate, you know, what his challenges are. Better yet, you know, if you've got something you want him to build, you can kind of really tailor it to, hey, I know this is probably the best way this machine works, or this is. These are the limitations. So, like, can we do something like this? And I think, A, not only does it help your product be better, but B, and almost more importantly, I think it just builds a really good culture. So those would be the two things. And again, I think that more than anything is one of the reasons I've been able to keep doing this for so long is because I have been available to fill a lot of different roles, and therefore, I could get a lot of different paychecks and keep my lights on and keep eating and all those great things that are so critical to sustaining life.

A (53:01)

No, I think that that's great. Advice for young people. I mean, don't just have a singular focus. Really fill the toolbox, Be multifaceted in your approach and being able to be useful to the team that you're working with. It's not only going to be great skills for them to develop into the roles that they want to, it's going to help them eventually evolve into great leaders, too, because they can. They can really relate to people that are performing tasks they may have done before. You know, that's even great advice for athletic directors, too, is just remember, you know, the things that you've done throughout the years. You've experienced similar situations and you can help people along the way. So I think that's awesome advice for any level of life, in all honesty. So, Scott, your thoughts?

C (53:42)

I mean, I would add, like, take pride in every one of those jobs.

B (53:46)

Yes, yes. Right.

C (53:47)

Like in, you know, no matter what it is, take pride. I was just reading this morning about Nike and I. I think they have a new CEO, Elliot Hill. I saw, I don't know if it was on X or something, but, like, check out the dude's resume. He started out as an intern at Nike. He is now the C came. Just came out of retirement. He's the new C. CEO of Nike. And if you look at this guy's resume, literally had just about every job on the way up. And listen, not everybody's gonna get there, but I mean, you talk about credibility and speaking to everybody in that organization at this point. So put food on the table, have running water and take pride. And aspire to get to CEO of Nike. Why the heck not?

B (54:33)

And on that topic of taking pride in it, too, Scott, I would add that, you know, I worked for three years when I was in college in the Braves press box, and I was. I was essentially the press box cashier for three years. And the way I would describe it was, let's say Gary, Keith and Ron with the Mets were in town and they wanted to get a hot dog. You know, I was the guy they'd pay five bucks to and I'd say, I'll go get a hot dog. And so I took it as, you know, seriously. I want to make sure I was always present, you know, tenant of all those things. And I felt like, you know, when my name came up to maybe take on a different role, like doing the stats for mlb.com I did that for a couple years afterwards, the discussion was, well, I don't know if Wiley's ever done something like this, but I'll tell you one thing. He. He's a dang good cashier. So, you know, he'd probably be good at this. You know, we know he's going to give it his full attention. You know, I mean, again, did taking a five and. Or taking a 20 and giving back three fives have much to do with scoring a baseball game on a computer? No, but I showed up on time. You know, I made sure I took care of the cash box. You know, again, very, very such small, really, you know, on paper, inconsequential tasks. But it's an opportunity for you to show someone who might be in a position to hire you for another position later on that, hey, you're. You take it very seriously, you're reliable. And I have found the longer I've gone in my career, and I'm sure you guys found something similar to that. When you're trying to hire a position, if you feel like, you know, that person is just reliable, consistent, and can do the job, that's almost more important than really having the necessary skill sets. I mean, I. My first job out of college was working in creative video at Georgia Tech. I hadn't done squat with creative video, but I'd been working in the athletic department for five years. I knew all the. All the coaches. I had relationships inside the building. So any type of onboarding process was going to be essentially just super quick. And they felt like, well, he's learned how to do this, he's learned how to do that, he's done writing, he's done statistics. You know, who's to say he couldn't learn how to do some creative video? And then I do think the one other big factor was I was extraordinarily cheap at that point, so that was probably an easy sell as well.

C (56:42)

We'll have to ask you offline who the best temper was.

B (56:48)

Exactly. Exactly. But again, that just goes back to just any chance you can get to get your foot in the door and demonstrate that you are a competent, attentive, employee human being, no matter what the task is. Almost. I don't want to say irrelevant, but it's not nearly as important as just showcasing your ability to do a job. Do it consistently. You know, be a positive contributor to the work environment.

A (57:14)

The old coaching cliche. Two things you can control. Your attitude and your effort.

B (57:17)

Yep. 100.

A (57:19)

Well, folks, I think that this has been a great conversation. I think that's probably going to put a wrap on this episode and that we really, really enjoyed having you on today. We can't. We can't. Thank you Enough. Wiley, appreciate you joining us and, you know, helping everyone see the. The different levels and layers that are really involved in streaming. So cannot thank you enough for joining us today. Scott, as always, really appreciate you joining in. It's always fun having our collective banter going back and forth, forth, but just a fantastic episode today, gentlemen. I really appreciate you joining.

B (57:51)

Thanks, guys.

C (57:52)

Smiley, great to meet you. Thank you.

B (57:54)

No, it was a pleasure. And the last thing I'll say is I just, I feel so indebted to a lot of the coaches and ADs and faculty advisors I had in high school. I think they really gave me a chance to not only pursue this, but sort of believe it was possible. So I can't tell you, you know, whether it's Dan Searle or Jerry Romberg, you know, Eddie Dupriest, all these people who played such consequential roles in high school. For me, I'm still in touch with all three of those guys, and it just means so much. So I just, you know, don't forget that. I'm sure, I mean, you work in education. I'm sure you know that, but I can't tell you how important those people were in giving me the opportunity and the confidence to pursue what I have the last 10 years.

A (58:36)

Well, we thank you for allowing us a little bit of a sneak peek into that knowledge base that you've gained throughout the years. I'm sure many ads that were tuning into this episode have gained a wealth of knowledge as it relates to fan engagement and how they can really leverage streaming. And with that said, if you liked what you heard today on our. On our broadcast, please stay tuned for future episodes. Make sure you follow us wherever you get your podcast from, whether that be Spotify or Apple Podcasts, so you don't miss any new content that's coming out from A.D. 360. I'm Greg Vandermeith.

C (59:08)

Scott Rosenberg.

A (59:09)

Until next time, folks.