← Ad Age Marketer's Brief
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- [00:08]
A
Rachel Epstein has been chief marketing officer for the National Women's Soccer League for less than two months, but she's stepping into the role at a pivotal moment. With the FIFA World cup arriving next month, the NWSL sees a major opportunity to bring new fans into the world of women's soccer. Epstein talks about the league's summer of soccer strategy today on the Marketer's Brief, our weekly discussion of marketing news and trends that have the industry buzzing. Women's sports are operating in a fundamentally different environment than they were even a decade ago and Epstein is determined to turn the rising attention into lasting fandom. We'll talk about storytelling, female sports audiences, and why she thinks the growing women's sports media ecosystem matters more than people realize. I'm Jon Springer, senior reporter at Ad Age. Before we begin, I want to call your attention to a new awards program, Ad Age. Midsize brand leaders honor senior in house marketing leaders making a difference at mid market brands, typically companies with 50 million to 1 billion in annual revenue. Does this sound like you or someone you know? Find out more, including how to enter@adage.com midsizeleaders and now my conversation with Rachel. Rachel Epstein, welcome to the Marketers Retreat podcast.
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B
Thanks for having me, John. Great to be here.
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A
Great. Let's start with the big question out there. The World cup feels like a potentially transformative moment for soccer here in America. How much of an accelerant do you think that can be for the NWSL specifically?
- [01:43]
B
Yeah, I mean it's a huge opportunity for the NWSL and for soccer. Right. Like global moments like these, these, these big events bring in waves of new fans, cross current fans, of course. Right. Like global core football fans, but also new fans that come in, learn about the game, get excited about the game, and then our job is to embed NWSL into that momentum and narrative in that window and then bring them in, hang on to their new and growing soccer interest and bring them in to the NWSL in our ecosystem.
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A
Are there ways you're going to do that specifically? But we'll see.
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B
Yes, absolutely. We have a whole strategy that we're calling Summer of Soccer that will do just that, that we will be driving conversation that integrates NWSL into the men's World cup conversation that brings our voice and our personalities to games. And we literally have a bus that will be making stops across the country, including our key tent poles during the those windows, our challenge cup, our return to play, our Queen's Classic at Citi Field. We are going to sort of integrate that into the Men's World cup momentum and conversation.
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A
Yeah, there's a lot of brands and a lot of entities that want to kind of draft on this amazing event. Do you feel like there's some competition where you've got to kind of stand out among. Among all the places, all the people that want to be a part of this?
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B
I don't know if I think about it as competition. Obviously, there's a lot. There will be a lot of noise. But the good news is we are and aim to be the premier global women's soccer league. And we have a really unique voice and territory that we own that allows us to be distinctive and really authentic in that space, versus, not even versus, but alongside brands and other sort of newer entrants into global soccer. We are sort of already a core part of the ecosystem, and we just want to ensure that our voice and personalities are heard and elevated during that time.
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A
So you've been at this job only for a matter of weeks. I wonder, what's your early read on where the league is right now?
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B
I mean, I am coming into a league with a tremendous foundation. And, you know, in my time at espn, I was, I worked, you know, I looked after women's sports marketing there and worked closely with the league. So I have a really good sense of all the momentum it has and all of the upside there still is to drive towards. So we are in growth stage right, like up into the right. And there is more to do. But I'm so excited about the opportunity and where we can go.
- [04:30]
A
Yeah. I want to say one of your earlier experiences was also part of the leadership team that founded wps, which was a predecessor to nwsl. And there's a big change between sort of what happened, what was the impetus for the success you're seeing now with nwsl and maybe some of the struggles or difficulties to get off the ground that some previous leagues may have had.
- [04:56]
B
Just, it's apples and oranges and it's a totally different time. And the structure of the business, the. In our tremendous, tremendous ownership groups, we have now the investment. And I. And I think maybe that's the most important thing, really significant investment, patient investment that understands that it, that. That it takes time to grow and, and sort of build audience and drive enterprise value. There's no comparison. But on a personal level, like, that was a very. It was early in my career, it was the sort of the place where my, you know, sort of my career in women's sports began. Informative. Made me a soccer person. Right. And so you Know, while there is, it's truly apples and oranges in terms of the sort of business and the way it's structured and all of the opportunity and advantage and growth that we have now, it still was very formative for me. And I take, I take lessons, personal lessons really from that time. I took those lessons into my time at espn and then I landed here and it really feels like the perfect fit.
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A
Yeah, it's just really remarkable how we've seen women's sports kind of turn around from every, every, every perspective you can look at. And you mentioned investment obviously is one.
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B
Yes.
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A
Brands want to be involved now.
- [06:19]
B
Yes. I mean, the, when I just think about the state of women's sports, right, And I, and I have a pretty long view on it, right. At 14 years at ESPN. So again, sort of on a personal level, it is just, it is thrilling to see the momentum right in the space and, and the health of it. And you know, there are all of talked about investment. There are all of the metrics and indicators that make the headlines. Exponential growth and expansion fees, valuations, attendance records. 63,000 fans at our inaugural Denver Summit match. And the marketplace, as you mentioned, with sort of greater demand for women's sports than ever. And you know, the NWSL is an active part of that marketplace and we're continuing to see that interest and build, build it and build alongside our brands and partners. I would just note that sort of a quieter but really vital interest indicator. Honestly, John, is a conversation like this with you, the burgeoning media ecosystem focused just on women's sports. Obviously you're not dedicated to women's sports, but dedicated podcasts and shows and documentaries and bylines and events all built, you know, for women's sports. Not sort of, you know, as an, you know, as sort of this adjacent add on, but like focused and dedicated to it. That is a vital ecosystem. It creates the flywheel, right? You tell the stories, you educate new fans, you engage current fans and all of that helps sort of build audience, build value, bring more eyeballs, bring more investment. So like it's both the headlines and the sort of that quieter infrastructure that, that is really coming together that indicates how healthy the women's sports space is.
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A
Right. So you mentioned the fans and who is the NWSL fan right now and how has that profile changed?
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B
Well, we have a very passionate and committed fan base, there's no question about it. Right. And we're seeing healthy growth across attendance and viewership. We have a tremendous opportunity and we got at this a little. You got at This a little bit around the Men's World cup, but really over the next five years, across Men's World Cup, Women's World Cup, Olympics, possibly a 2031 Women's World cup, maybe on our soil, to capitalize on that sort of global soccer spotlight. Right. So a really committed current fan base. But what this next five years will propel is a massive, you know, sort of wave of new fans. So they're coming into soccer because they're rooting for their country or they've come to know the breakout stars that these global events always give rise to. And we are extremely well positioned to convert that spotlight into sustained audience growth. So that's, that's the job in front of us. There's no question our core women's soccer fan is the best. We should build our brand around the sort of ethos and spirit of that fan. But the opportunity to sort of grow and expand is in front of us, and we're going to do that.
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A
Are there particular areas or demographics or groups that you are sourcing fans from?
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B
Yeah, I mean, look, without trying to be everything to everyone, that's not how you do it. I, I should say that, like, we invite all fans into the nwsl and, and there's a, there's a huge opportunity just to, again, back to the, even this Men's World cup window, just to engage like core international global soccer fans and bring them into nwsl like they understand world class soccer. We have a world class soccer product, best in the world, women's side. So that is a, that is an opportunity we want to take advantage of and build in terms of that sort of behavioral demo of like big, you know, core fan of global soccer. The other thing I would just add, and this sort of goes to a little bit, my time at ESPN is the opportunity to actually drive female audience growth. And I, you know, I've said this before, but I'll say it here. I think for a long time there was this like, conflation that women's sports equals women's fans. Women. Female fans. And like, that is not true. Right. That historically has not been the case. Right. You know, many, many years ago at espn, there were not huge female audience numbers in terms of watching women's sports, but it is an audience segment that is driving incremental growth right now. So, like, that opportunity to drive female audience growth can think about it more broadly, like 18 to 44, but that opportunity is a more recent one and we want to take advantage of that. It will look a little different, you know, sort of in the younger side of that demo. Right. In the way those, you know, young audiences, as I'm sure you've talked about in countless times on this podcast, like engage with content and what their fandom looks like and, and second screen sort of experience versus tuning into tv. But irrespective of the sort of the breakdown of that sort of female audience demo, there is a huge opportunity to grow there. And one of the ways that we can do that and will do that is by building out a robust content strategy and ecosystem. That is an opportunity in front of us that we are going to do. And it will drive storytelling and it will elevate our star, our, our players like our current stars and build new stars and create entry paths for new fans. Right. So female, you know, just as like sort of a sweeping generalization. But it is true that, that at ESPN we did a ton of research about the. On this early, starting with the birth of espnw, which was really built to sort of serve female audiences. And that is because they fan a little bit differently. Connection is key. Right. It's not that women aren't just watching the game on the pitch or on the court, on the field, like and loving all of the competitive excellence. That is true. But their way into, you know, to sort of interest and connection might look a little different. And it's, it is really through the sense of personal connection, whether it's through a star athlete and their story or through their family or through their university or through their hometown. Like something about it often is personal and then they come into the sport. So we need to create those pathways and we will.
- [12:54]
A
Yeah, that was a. That was exactly where I was going with that. Rachel. Yeah, I've just. Maybe you can give me an example of, of sort of how you are telling these stories about your players and, and roping in fans that way.
- [13:06]
B
I mean, look, we have a tremendous foundation, but there is, we have more work to do in terms of storytelling, you know, from a league office perspective. And so far we're counting a little bit on our partners to tell those stories. ESPN's done a great job. Amazon, everybody, you know, that we're partnered with in our ecosystem. The opportunity to really tell those stories from like on sort of lead platforms and through our sort of owned media ecosystem is in front of us. And we are going to start. We are beginning to build that out now. Make no mistake, we have star players that are breaking through. I mean, I think everybody sort of knows the names and Trinity and Sophia and Mal and a whole swath of sort of current stars. We want to also sort of get fans in front of, like, that sort of new rising class of stars. And so we're going to, as we build out this sort of content strategy and drive velocity and engagement with our current fans and create those new sort of pathways for new fans, elevating those. That sort of new class of players and stars will be really important.
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A
Do you have other priorities ahead of you?
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B
Yeah, look, the audience growth is vital. You've heard it here, right? For me and for our league, again, building on a great foundation, it's really important that we cement our brand in the hearts and minds of current fans and new fans. What we stand for, the distinctive place and space we can own in the minds and hearts of fans to drive connection and loyalty and ultimately growth. But we need to really cement that so that we get a little stickier, so that there's a clear sort of emotional connection that work is in front of us. And I'm super excited about it. Right.
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A
We're running short on time here, but I do have one question that we try to ask all our guests, and that is if you could name one CMO out there and what your question might be for them.
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B
I mean, this might be everyone's answer right now, but I'm really impressed with what the Gap is doing right now. Fabiola Torres, is the cmo, like, what a turnaround, Right. And so. And sort of a distinctive new strategy to really drive cultural relevance, which is an imperative for the league as well. So, yeah, I mean, I have a whole host of questions, but my question would just be, like, what it looked like. What did it look like to sell in inside, you know, their walls? This new way of inserting Gap into culture and conversation. It's unmissable right now, Right. And all the way into Fashion Week and the Met, you know, Met Gala. So I think that would be my answer.
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A
That's great answer. Rachel Epstein, thanks so much for joining us on the Marketer's Brief.
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B
Thanks, John. Appreciate it.
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A
That was Rachel Epstein, chief marketing officer of the National Women's Soccer League. And I'm John Springer, senior reporter at Ad Age. I'd like to thank our producer, Lauren Ciardio, and remind you that you can subscribe to the Marketer's Brief wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for this week. We'll see you next time.
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Marketers brief listeners get $40 off an AdAge.com subscription.
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Sharpen your marketing edge and visit AdAge.com brief for your discount.
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Sam.