Podcast Summary: Ad Age Marketer's Brief

Episode: Digital advertising best practices with Meta CMO Alex Schultz
Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Garrett Sloan (Ad Age Chief Technology Reporter)
Guest: Alex Schultz (Chief Marketing Officer, Meta)

Episode Overview

In a timely episode coinciding with Advertising Week New York, Garrett Sloan sits down with Meta CMO Alex Schultz—author of the new book Click Here: The Art and Science of Digital Marketing and Advertising. They dive deep into the evolving landscape of digital advertising, best practices, industry anecdotes, generative AI's marketing impact, ad fraud, performance measurement, and the changing roles of agencies. Schultz provides not only actionable insights but also an optimistic defense of advertising’s broader economic and societal value.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Write a New Digital Marketing Guide?

• Gap in Market: Schultz sees a lack of a comprehensive, positive guide for modern digital marketing channels (paid search, social, AI, etc.), analogous to Ogilvy’s classic texts, but updated for today.
• Defending Advertising: Amid widespread negativity, he aims to showcase how marketing grows businesses, creates jobs, and helps sustain public goods through tax generation.

  "Marketing and advertising help connect people to the things they love… I wanted a positive book..." — Alex Schultz (02:10)

Advertiser Anecdotes: Uber’s Ad Fraud Wake-Up Call

• The Uber Case: Uber turned off certain digital channels, discovering minimal impact on conversions despite massive ad spend—revealing either inadvertent or deliberate ad fraud via obscure affiliates.

  "By just turning off and seeing what happened to growth, they were able to realize they were wasting money." — Alex Schultz (04:25)

• Relevance for Today: The incident illustrates the need for rigorous measurement and skepticism, especially with affiliate/partner networks.

The Complexity and Evolution of Digital Campaign Measurement

• Platform Misattribution: Changing strategies (like pausing Meta/Facebook ads) can yield unexpected results. Lift studies and incrementality experiments are vital for genuine insights.

  "It’s totally possible for it to be not fraudulent at all, but for you to do things wrong ... you have to be continually testing and making sure your understanding is staying correct." — Alex Schultz (05:45, 07:47)

• Organic vs. Paid Search: As competitive channels (e.g., TikTok, Snapchat) buy branded Google keywords, brands must adapt their bidding strategies—proving what worked in prior years may not apply today.

Meta’s Own Best Practices: Eating Your Own Dog Food

• Meta as a Marketer: Meta uses its own tools (apps, ad formats, API integrations), experimenting with both direct response (e.g., app install campaigns) and newer tactics like influencer “Partnership Ads.”

  "Partner ads … is a fifth of my spend now on direct response marketing for the glasses and we're going to do more of it next year." — Alex Schultz (09:20)

• Learning from External Marketers: Despite Meta’s expertise, Schultz acknowledges top performance often comes from third-party marketers—Disney, Zynga, Temu, Shein, Coke—who push the platforms’ capabilities.

How Channels Differ—And How TikTok Changed Social Engagement

• Timeless Principles vs. Platform Tactics: While principles hold across platforms, TikTok’s algorithm, prioritizing unconnected/semantic content, forced Meta and peers to overhaul content and recommendation strategies.

  "TikTok … broke the mold … Today, the majority of time spent on both Instagram and Facebook is looking at unconnected content." — Alex Schultz (13:07)

• Response to Disruption: Schultz discusses the existential threat TikTok posed, Meta's competitive response (Reels), and the resulting industry-wide shift.

The Rise of “AEO”—AI Search Engine Optimization

• What is AEO? As generative AI (like Gemini, ChatGPT) changes search, publishers and marketers must rethink how their content is discovered, ranked, and monetized.

  "If you're a content publisher, you should look very closely at what's happened to Stack Overflow … their business has changed dramatically." — Alex Schultz (15:36)

• The Uncertain Future: Whether Google or pure AI platforms dominate, and if ad-supported or paid models win out, will define the next era of digital marketing.

  "If Google loses and ... there are no ads next to it because they're paying, [it] massively disrupts the online marketing industry." — Alex Schultz (17:35)

The Next Frontier: AI-Powered Advertising and Targeting

• OpenAI and New Ad Businesses: OpenAI is actively recruiting ad talent, hinting at ad-supported models for its AI products.

  "They're very open in public… They are 100% hiring an ads person… The question is, do they do it for their Sora 2 type AI feed of videos? ... The question is which wins?" — Alex Schultz (18:52)

• Ultimate Targeting Machine: The “audience of one” is closer than ever—AI may deliver perfectly contextual ads, realizing marketing’s long-standing dream.

  "We've always wanted to show the right ad to the right person at the right time..." — Alex Schultz (20:24)

The Role and Fate of Agencies in an Automated Future

• Agency Endurance: Despite fears of AI or platforms “destroying” agencies, Schultz asserts agencies will remain essential for large businesses with complex multi-platform needs.

  "As long as I have worked in this industry, people have said agencies are going to be eliminated and it's just not true. Big companies need agencies." — Alex Schultz (21:28)

• AI Empowerment for SMBs: Automation will give smaller advertisers “superpowers,” allowing them access to tools once reserved for large firms. Agencies will evolve, not disappear.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [02:10] “I wanted a positive book out there that said that as well about digital advertising. And I'm pretty happy to have done it.” — Alex Schultz
• [04:25] “By just turning off and seeing what happened to growth, they were able to realize they were wasting money.”
• [07:47] “If you go, okay, I've solved search marketing ... by the time you hit 2025, I think you will be wrong by that stage.”
• [09:20] “Partner ads…is a fifth of my spend now on direct response marketing for the glasses and we're going to do more of it next year.”
• [13:07] “TikTok … broke the mold … Today, the majority of time spent on both Instagram and Facebook is looking at unconnected content.”
• [15:36] “If you're a content publisher, you should look very closely at what's happened to Stack Overflow … their business has changed dramatically.”
• [17:35] “If Google loses and ... most people go to ChatGPT and there are no ads next to it because they're paying, [it] massively disrupts the online marketing industry.”
• [18:52] “They are 100% hiring an ads person. … The question is which wins? The question is not whether both will exist.”
• [20:24] “We've always wanted to show the right ad to the right person at the right time, but we didn't have the ability …”
• [21:28] “As long as I have worked in this industry, people have said agencies are going to be eliminated and it's just not true.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:56–03:09] — Why Alex Schultz wrote the book; defending advertising's value
• [03:44–05:06] — Uber scandal, ad fraud, and rigorous measurement
• [07:04–08:18] — The ever-evolving nature of search and campaign optimization
• [08:31–10:11] — How Meta uses its own ad tools and innovative tactics
• [10:23–11:31] — Industry benchmarks: who’s best at digital marketing?
• [12:07–14:18] — The rise of TikTok and the transformation of social media
• [15:07–18:31] — AI’s impact on SEO, “AEO,” and unknowns in the new search landscape
• [18:51–20:52] — New AI-powered ad models and the future of targeting
• [20:52–23:31] — The persistent, evolving role of agencies in digital marketing

Tone and Takeaways

Schultz’s tone mixes candid realism with optimism—he’s clear about the challenges (fraud, disruption, algorithmic change) but bullish on advertising’s essential role and ability to adapt. He champions rigorous experimentation, transparency, and constant learning over dogma, and balances big-picture AI speculation with tactical marketing detail.

Final thought: Far from bleak, the digital ad future—if led by curious, adaptive marketers—remains rich with both challenge and potential.