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Ad Age Marketer's Brief
Meet the Calvin Klein CMO using 'entertainment mentality' to turn culturally resonant campaigns into sales gains
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- [00:08]
A
Hi, I'm Adrienne Pascarelli, Senior Editor of CMO Strategy and Commerce at Ad Age. And welcome to another edition of the Marketer's Brief Podcast, our weekly discussion about marketing news and trends that have the industry buzzing. Calvin Klein has a long history of provocative campaigns. And this year's campaign with a top list, Dakota Johnson, was no exception. The work was well received by consumers as many appreciated the return of so called sexy marketing. Today we'll be talking with Jonathan Bottomley, Global Chief Marketing Officer of Calvin Klein and Executive Vice President of group Consumer and Brand Strategy at PVH Corp. He joined the fashion brand four years ago after working at Bull and Branch, the betting brand, and Ralph Lauren where he led brand strategy for three years. Prior to that, Jonathan worked agencyside in London. Today he'll be talking about the Dakota Johnson campaign, the fashion brand's recent pride marketing push, and how the label is building engagement with Gen Z consumers. Now, here's my conversation with Jonathan. Hi, Jonathan, thanks so much for joining us.
- [01:20]
B
Hello, how are you doing? Thanks for having me.
- [01:22]
A
So let's start by talking about one of Calvin Klein's more provocative campaigns this year so far, the work with Dakota Johnson. That campaign began running earlier this year. Can you walk me through how you came up with this campaign? Kind of how it all came together?
- [01:38]
B
Yeah, sure. So I think it's an obvious thing to say, but we're a fashion company, we're a product company, but we adopt what I would call an entertainment mentality to make sure that we stay as relevant and as current as possible. So, you know, for almost 40, 50 years, there's been an iconic view of what Calvin is in the minds of many, many people. We have a huge level of awareness. How do you keep that fresh? How do you keep it interesting? We're always working on that. And you know, coming back to this idea of the entertainment mentality, we're constantly thinking about, how do you create a sense of a story, a moment, content in the broader sense of the word that people really want to spend time with? You know, as marketers, everyone has limited funds. What we think about is how do we reach as many people as possible with the most impactful story, if possible, that brings our product to life. And I think that's what we did with Dakota. You know, she is a character in and of herself. What we try to do is create a new version of that character, a Calvinized version of the person and to make sure they have that platform. We have that platform to tell a really clear story. And I think that we did that we reached a lot of people. I think we delighted a lot of people. And I think we did it in a way that felt true and right for the product.
- [02:51]
A
The campaign felt a bit nostalgic, kind of that, like, 90s era of sexy fashion marketing. And that's something I feel like a lot of brands are talking about right now, like, thinking like the Sydney Sweeney Victoria's Secret. Was that nostalgic element intentional?
- [03:08]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think nostalgia is kind of, I think, something that we see in the culture. For us, it's really about legacy and a story that has always been true. So there's an era for the brand, which I still think lives pretty vividly in people's minds. We see even younger consumers go back on social channels and, you know, see what was going on in the 90s, advertising, other phenomena around the brand. So it's an opportunity for us to own that bit of our story and our legacy. I think the opportunity, you know, with Dakota and around the products we were were talking about then, I think, was to, yeah, absolutely, access that part of the brand, but tell it in a way that felt super current. You know, she has her own culture around her. She's done things in her career, characters that she's played that we were also playing with. So I think, yeah, a little bit of the past, a little bit of what the culture stands for today. And then what I think was very current is a way of creating content that, you know, we knew we could game the algorithm with, so we generated a level of reach we would never have been able to pay for. So I think that's the modern piece. But sure, there's a piece of the brand that we get to own and we play with all the time.
- [04:18]
A
Gaming the algorithm is like the biggest conundrum for marketers these days. From the response that I saw, it seemed like there was so much buzz and enthusiasm for that campaign. How did it perform relative to your expectations? And what. When you think about those expectations, what measurements are you using to measure success?
- [04:40]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think let's start with the measurement. I think we look at a group of metrics which are connected. One of them is reach and engagement. But it has to be purposeful. It has to connect to search. It has to connect to active interest and then, of course, sales. Right. And in the end, that's the most important metric. We're a product company. We're a retail company in many respects. So just on Instagram alone, we had 26 million views of that. Just that piece of content. Within 24 hours we saw search spike and within that quarter we saw single digit increase in women's underwear sales and a double digit increase in women's denim. And so the tier of metrics there, from engagement all the way through to conversion and sales really worked. Coming back to your point about gaining the algorithm, this is something that we've worked pretty hard on for the past kind of three, four years. And what we've seen is, you know, we benefit from a huge level of followership across social channels. About 30% of our audience is actively engaged on Instagram, just taking one platform. So finding ways of using that engagement and getting people to like, to share, to talk about that builds a sense of virality. We can develop huge scale. For us, we've seen that across multiple campaigns from Jenny Kim, Michael B. Jordan, Jeremy Allen White, Rosalia Rapinha, Jungkook, of course, and most recently with Dakota. So it's something that we've got very good at. It's rooted in our deep, deep connection with audiences on social media and our ability to reach adjacent audiences who want to talk about what we're doing.
- [06:11]
A
Which channels are performing better than others? You talk about Instagram, but how are you viewing some of the other marketing channels? And is it more about some of the social media than some of the more traditional channels?
- [06:24]
B
It's absolutely socially driven because I think in a way it's driven by a sense of community. And I mean that in the biggest sense of the word, groups of people who are, you know, ready and willing to see what we want to say and to engage with it. But it's across, you know, the full range of channels, not just here in the Western world, but also in China. We're a global business in, in the eastern market. So yes, it's the meta channels, largely. Instagram is TikTok. I think as we look globally, it's doing it's red book and you know, you have a similar dynamic happening underneath what people see, which is if you can tilt your story into a scale of engagement that people have, then it just starts to travel and it comes to the top of people's feeds. It tends to be the thing that gets served at scale. So for us, that social engine is really important. We actually spend less than you would expect on some of the bigger, more broadcast forms of media. And it allows us to be super targeted with paid media, to bring that consumer down through the funnel and to spend time on our channels, drive traffic and drive sales. So that's kind of like the Alchemy if you like, which is to spark the reach through virality and then target that person with paid media to bring them in to drive traffic and sales.
- [07:42]
A
What about your more recent marketing work for Pride Month in June? Calvin Klein released its collection last month with three creators each telling a story around self expression. Can you talk a bit about that campaign?
- [07:56]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think Pride has been an important part of the way that we talk to a critical community for the brand. We're product led. So there's always a new expression of our most iconic products through the lens of Pride every season. And you know, this year, again, this idea of community finding ways to talk directly to and with the community, finding people who represent the brands who can tell our story in a really authentic way, feels really, really important. And that creator led approach where creators on our behalf express what we stand for through their lens is incredibly effective for us. That's true for Pride. It's true across a lot of what we do at the moment. And in some ways just bringing it back to Dakota and others, they act like that for us as well. I mean, that Dakota campaign is as much her expression as ours. We work really deeply with her to get that right. There's a lot of her in that campaign. It's a very, very effective way of getting your idea to travel because you benefit just the authenticity of expression, but the direct connection to their communities as well. And ideas that travel are really important for us.
- [09:03]
A
Well, it's also worth noting that your Pride work comes at a time when so many brands are pulling back from such marketing or have pulled back. Why is Calvin Klein still investing in Pride messaging? Why is that still a story that you think is important to tell every season?
- [09:20]
B
So we have an important connection to the community. We have great products that's really appreciated, I think, not just by that community, but by others adjacent to it. And it's a great opportunity to tell our story as we think across the year, we have a series of moments that are important culturally. And by that I don't just mean big C culture, I mean consumer mindset moments people want to buy. We need a perspective on those moments. And leading with product that's bespoke and relevant, that's really valued by a community, is a very, very good way to Dr. Those metrics that are important to us. Not just engagement, but kind of search consideration and then ultimately through to sales. So it's a successful product franchise for us and it's really important to reward the community with it.
- [10:07]
A
The brand has a long History, as we've said, of provocative campaigns. But I'm wondering how you think about evolving the branding and messaging to connect with some of these younger consumers. How is Gen Z different from previous generations? And how do you think about your marketing tapping into those differences? We talked a lot about social channels too, as one way they're primarily on. But what else?
- [10:32]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think there's two things, actually. I think we benefit because we have some of the most iconic, recognizable products that there are out there in the world. And I think, you know, working hard to make sure those feel as current as possible is kind of the job. I think for Gen Z, there's a lot of opportunity. It's not just social media. I think that this is a generation that spend their time in culture. Like, that's what social media has opened up. Whatever it is that you're interested in, you can go very deep and you can go very current. So how do we stay as current as possible is really the job in terms of engaging them. So working with content creators, making sure that the message feels fresh and authentic, making sure that we're out there with frequency, but I think also just focusing on the product and making sure that's as relevant as possible to the consumer. So I think you see that with our biggest franchises, we work really hard to make sure that there's something new and fresh and different about the product that has something to say now and then. We work equally hard to make sure that everything that we do around engagement talks directly to that audience. We don't talk exclusively to Gen Z, but I think what we do see is that they are often a catalyst for the culture at large. They're spending more time on not just social media, but in areas like engaging with and sharing, like what brands are doing, what's happening in culture more generally. So if you can win there, it has a catalytic and almost accelerant effect.
- [11:55]
A
The rest of culture, yeah, Gen Z seems really in touch with marketing too, and a level that previous generations haven't been like. You know, they're always commenting things like give the marketing team a raise or they seem more in touch with that discipline.
- [12:10]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think it's. That's a great observation. I mean, I think again, social media has allowed all of us, right, to go very deep onto things. And sometimes, you know, that can be something that is just pure kind of entertainment. And sometimes you learn a lot as well. And I think you have a very, very culture marketing brand, entertainment literate generation. And they've gone deep into Understanding what it is. I think they have an easy access to build their own brands and to tell their own story. I think most people within that generation are very. Whether or not they're influencers and see it as their career, they're very good at telling their own story on social media. They understand what that takes. And so I think that they then have an expectation that brands and, you know, celebrities and, you know, everyone in the culture is as good at it as they are. Right. Because it's just natural. So, yeah, I think they can probably tell when it feels as if it's not done with authenticity and when it is. And I think that they are. Yeah. I think it's also like they're a generous generation, I would say, which is if something's done well, they'll get behind it and they'll promote it, and they want it to do well.
- [13:20]
A
Well, I wanted to ask you about your celebrity partnerships. I mean, we talked about Dakota and we talked about Jeremy Allen White. How do you determine, you know, what person is right for the brand? What goes into the thought process behind some of these partnerships? Relationships?
- [13:37]
B
Yeah. I mean, I think the first thing that we look for is someone that has an authentic connection to the brand. So sometimes that is someone who genuinely and very naturally is wearing our products. There's a lot of those people around, which is a good thing. But then I think it's also about attitude and it's about spirit, and it's about someone who's shaping culture in their own way. What we've done very deliberately and strategically is think about people who are perhaps on their way up. They have their own fan base. They feel as if their star is rising. Our job is to give that kind of moment some acceleration. Jeremy Alan White is a fantastic example of that. I think if you watch the bear you felt seen by going, that guy, I always knew he looked that great. And those people then help you accelerate the virality. They're the ones that see it first and they share it. But I think also what you're trying to do is to make sure that the lens of Calvin is really going to work for that person and that you can show them in a way that they've never been seen before. And I think that's been the secret behind nearly all of our success. I would say that's true of Jeremy, but I think it was in a way true of Dakota as well, because you saw a side of her that you thought was there, but maybe hadn't seen it that vivid before. It's the Same with Bunny. I think it's been the same with Jenny Kim. It was the same with. And that's not just provocation. It's not just seeing them in their underwear. I think there's a performance, there's a character, there's a stature to the way that they show up through the lens of Calgary that we have to be certain we can capture. And those are the people that we like to work with. Because I think that gets recognized in the culture and it's appreciated, which is why we drive that success.
- [15:11]
A
And I know most of your campaigns have been created in house. When do you work with external agency partners or do you ever kind of. What comes into that strategy?
- [15:22]
B
No, I mean, we create this in house. I mean, I think that we. We spend a lot of time externally, if that makes sense. So we look outside much more than we do in. I think we're very sure of the brand. Many of the people who help and partner and work together to create this have a really, really firm understanding of what we're trying to do. And I think that helps. I think that stewardship, I think that knowledge of what we're trying to do really, really helps. So, yes, from a creative, from a storytelling perspective, we produce and create and develop a lot of that internally. But what I would also say is our partners in that respect, the content creators, those might be influencers, those might be our celebrities, ourselves, we really thoughtful about the creators from a kind of photographic directorial perspective. Like, that's where we get a lot of energy from. And I think we spend a lot of time co creating with them to make sure that we get, like, the story right, the narrative right, the characterization right, you know, making sure that the styling is right. That's a very, very important set of relationships to us.
- [16:28]
A
And shifting gears a little bit, I know that you recently expanded your role to consumer and brand strategy for parent company PVH Corp. Congratulations.
- [16:39]
B
Thank you.
- [16:40]
A
How have your responsibilities widened? What's changed for you?
- [16:44]
B
So, look, I continue on my role with Calvin, and that doesn't change, which is great because I love this. One of the things we've been very good at on Calvin is taking ideas that talk directly to consumers. And I think what we're looking to institutionalize a little bit across the company, and this work already happens on Tommy Hilfiger, is just being much clearer about the consumers that we need to target and the growth that we can get through acquisition, through the lifetime value of those consumers. That's a huge opportunity for us to be even more targeted around the growth that we can get. I think there's opportunities for us to accelerate in that space because we have incredible levels of brand engagement, incredibly strong equities, incredible levels of engagement on social media in particular for both brands. So what we're looking to do is sort of institutionalize that and just maximize the opportunity to grow through the lens of those consumers.
- [17:41]
A
And as you think about growth and engagement and reaching new, new customers, where are you finding inspiration from your marketing peers? Like, what other brands do you think are doing work right now that you admire?
- [17:56]
B
Well, look, I guess where I start is I look a lot actually to Tommy. They have an amazing team and, you know, it's a different brand. It has a slightly different kind of focus and, and meaning in the world to Calvin. But they've done an amazing job, I think, at kind of building the brand through the lens of cultural platforms with, you know, Formula one over time, most recently with Cadillac, with Liverpool fc, and I think with some of the bigger brand partnerships they're doing Travis Kelce. So I get a lot of inspiration from that. I'm lucky to work with that team and I think they do an amazing job.
- [18:28]
A
Then one last question before we go. Ad Age has started a new series called CMO Survival Guide that gives practical advice for chief marketers dealing with unprecedented change in the role. I was wondering if you can tell us one thing that's changed the most about your job in the past year, separate from what we were just talking about with your expansion and promotion.
- [18:52]
B
I don't know if it's changed, actually. I just think the pace of the way that we see culture phenomena emerge is incredible. I think we've seen people with tiny followerships become huge and influential in unprecedented time frames. I think we've seen the pace of change across the platforms. They've done that through being like, radical. And I think you have. I'm very optimistic, actually, about the role and about what we have. I think we've never had more tools to do what we do. I think that we've never had better partners. I think when you look at the pace of change around digital media, in particular with the advent of AI, being better able to analyze target scale, personalize, that is moving at breakneck speed. But at the same time, it's all moving in a largely positive direction, which is it gives you better, better tools to do what you need to do. I think we're lucky in the sense that we have a brand that is already part of the culture and that we have a followership that is real and engaged. So what we see is that pace of change is an advantage. It's just staying on top of it that you've got to be very open to it and very aware, I would say.
- [20:06]
A
Well, we're out of time. Thank you so much for joining us.
- [20:09]
B
It was great. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
- [20:20]
A
That was Jonathan Bottomley, Global Chief Marketing Officer of Calvin Klein and Executive Vice President of Group Consumer and Brand Strategy at PVH Corp. And I'm Adrian Pascarelli, senior Editor at Adage. I'd like to thank our producer, Lauren Ciardio, and invite you to subscribe to the Marketer's Brief podcast on your favorite player. We promise to keep it brief or at least short enough for your morning coffee. Thanks for tuning in.