The key to making sports partnerships pay off, with PepsiCo's Jonnie Cahill - Ad Age Marketer's Brief

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[00:00]
A
Foreign. The World cup has given marketers six weeks of ideas, activations and sponsorships to dissect. Now, with the tournament winding down, it's a good time to ask what actually worked and what brands could learn from it. That's what we'll be discussing today with Johnny Cahill, chief marketing officer of PepsiCo's international foods business on the Marketer's Brief, our weekly discussion of marketing news and trends, the that have the industry buzzing. Cahill joined Pepsi last year after 12 years at Heineken, including seven years as its US CMO. He'll talk about PepsiCo's World cup strategy for lays why global campaigns have to feel local and how iconic brands can evolve without losing what made them successful in the first place. I'm John Springer, senior reporter at Ad Age and this is the Marketer's Brief pod. Johnny Cahill, welcome to the Marketer's Brief.
[01:07]
B
Hey John, great to be here. Yeah, glad to chat, looking forward to it.
[01:10]
A
Good. You've had a long journey in marketing, helping to shape Heineken's marketing. For example, before joining PepsiCo last year. What do you see as the opportunity at PepsiCo and what is the mission, if you will?
[01:23]
B
Yeah, well, I think on the, and I'm on the food side of the business, which is a really intriguing part of the PepsiCo portfolio where we believe the opportunity is to drive portfolio transformation in a way that adjusts a really established foods portfolio to adapt to a changing consumer landscape where we need to offer a much more diverse range of options, more nutrient density, you know, more solutions on portion control and at the same time protecting a core business that brings joy to millions and billions of people around the world in moments that we know and recognize from a birthday party to a movie to a picnic. But also recognizing that those moments and those occasions and the roles of those brands has to evolve over time. And I think we're very excited by the opportunity to capitalize on the core that we've built over the history of the organization with super iconic brands that we all know and love and at the same time say, hey, how can we evolve those brands to make them ever more relevant for changing consumer tastes? And that sounds like the kind of thing CMOs say, but like if I can give you a tangible example, I of something like Doritos protein, you know, where we're really taking that core really iconic loved brand and bringing a new wave of benefits through it to our R and D and science capabilities to make sure that the brand evolves for a different consumer occasion. A Different consumer moment and yet keeps what made it magic in the first place. So we're very excited by where this is all going, and I guess it goes back to fundamentals of managing your portfolio for today and also making sure that you have a relevant portfolio in the future, which history would show us PepsiCo has been able to do over. Over the years.
[03:02]
A
Yeah. You're marketing regular Doritos alongside protein Doritos. How is the. Is there subtle changes or how does it look to the consumer?
[03:11]
B
Yeah, from a consumer perspective, I mean, we obviously talk about the benefit, 10 grams of protein. There is visual differentiation between them. But as you know, with all of the CMOs you talk to, the brand is the brand, and the core identity is Doritos. The core tone of voice is Doritos. And so we build on what we've got from an equity perspective, but layer on incremental, evolved benefits for consumers. So we always make sure these things are connected. I think as a CMO and you see what we as a community struggle with. And you see when, John, when we get it wrong, it's when your innovation starts to pressure your core and the brands begin to fragment, then it gets a little bit weird for consumers who need those recognizable cues. So we will always show up in that example, like Doritos. But at the same time, we're offering a new layer of benefits for a changing set of consumer tastes. And that's just one of many examples. Sometimes it's new brands that you're bringing to the market to satisfy needs. Sometimes it's the evolution of loved brands that you've been working on for years and years. But I think fundamentals of, you know, good portfolio management is make. Make sure it's recognizable because you've built up so much equity in those brands over the years. That's not something you want to leave on the table.
[04:22]
A
Yeah. So, I mean, you've worked across spirits, beer, snacks. Now, is there one lesson about building brands that holds true no matter what the product is?
[04:28]
B
I think so. I mean, I think, you know, truly understanding the why behind people are using whatever category, and the why, I think is never only functional or only emotional. It's a little bit of both. You know, the more beautiful portfolios you have the privilege to work on as a CMO and I think as CMOs, you need to be humble and say, hey, you get your hands on these portfolios for a really short period of time, and really your only job is to leave them better than how you got them. But what I do deeply believe, having Seen it at Diageo or PepsiCo or Heineken or even in the telco business is understand why people use your brands and your products so what that functional delivery is. But also layer on the emotional differentiation and understand what it makes them feel. And I think if you can do those things, and I've been really fortunate to work on brands like Guinness or like Heineken or indeed like Doritos or lay's, the world's biggest food brand, they do things for consumers, but they also make them feel things. Those little moments of joy, for example, in the lay's world that happen billions of times a day around the world. So I don't know if there's a secret sauce that you can apply everywhere, but I would always start with what's it doing and how does it make people feel? And I think if you've got a good grip on that as a cmo, it's the beginning of a winning strategy for sure.
[05:45]
A
Okay, so our listeners can't see this, but you are wearing a World cup shirt and we're talking about lays. The campaign is really notable for a number of reasons. There's such an emphasis on sort of how fans experience the tournament together, you know, through creators and social and other ways. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that campaign and sort of, you know, how that changes the way you kind of think about building a campaign around an event like World Cup.
[06:11]
B
Yeah. And so back to the previous commenter and getting your hands on things. I mean, how lucky are we to have the World cup that basically unifies everybody around a shared set of values and feelings and moments, whether it's joy or heartbreak for some of our colleagues over the last couple of weeks in different markets around the world. And I think for us, if you imagine a brand like Lays on your platform, like the World cup we have, you know, it's one of the most recognizable brands in the world. So it's not for us about salience and awareness, although that's important. And it helps to grow your brand. It's about experience and actually showing up in a meaningful way for the people who interact with your brand. And so what we've tried to do is mirror the how the brand is used in that football watching occasion. And our strategy is really quite simple. It's occasion penetration to make sure we show up in more moments to drive growth for the business. And occasion penetration sounds highly strategic, but what does? What would a person say? That is, what we're trying to do is make it inconceivable to watch the World cup or football or soccer without Lays. And we want to make sure that in those moments when you're doing something you love and enjoy with your friends, your families or your compatriots or your work colleagues, and that Lays is always there. And so we understood that there's something that everybody does around the world, which is they plan the watch party, they get together to watch the game. And we've built this no Lays, no game platform over a number of years. And consistency was a topic you might have heard at Cannes a lot over the last couple of weeks. It's like a multi year, multi award winning campaign that delivers that concept of, you know what, don't ever watch the game without Lays. Because it's better with Lays. And we feel really fortunate because the brand and the product naturally shows up in the World cup moment. It's harder if you're on Visa or Aramco or other brands because you're not necessarily linked to the football watching moment in a way that we are because it's quite logical to have a beer if you're Abi, to have some chips if you're Lays. That makes sense for us to show up in these moments. So we want to make it inconceivable to watch a game without Lays. And we do that by dramatizing our celebrities planning their watch party. Messi, Beckham, Thierry Henry and Steve Carell, who represents the other fan, the one who isn't an expert, the one who's not that pushed about the World cup, the one who asked the dumb questions, but the very human questions that we all sometimes have watching sport and then from a, let's call it a streaming asset or a broadcast video asset, we also get into the world of doing John. So our WhatsApp group, which is the biggest consumer activation ever with matter for a CPG brand, allows people to to participate in an epic watch party group where they plan the watch parties with Steve Carell, with Leo Messi, with Thierry Henry, with David Beckham. So those celebrities are in your pocket the same way your friends are in your pocket planning a watch party at home. And then we drive conversion. So that's beautiful at a, let's call it upper funnel and digital connectivity level. But we also have 40 limited edition flavors, flavors of the world from the countries that are playing to do the brilliant basics that help grow your business. Shelf share off shelf display occasion and channel penetration and excitement because we have amazing flavor engineers who can make almost anything. So whether it's bangers and mash in the UK or Brazilian garlic sauce, we're able to bring those to people as well. So we dramatize the party, we help you participate in the planning via WhatsApp, and we deliver the products for that party as well to make sure that when you watch the game with Lays, it's as good as it can be.
[09:51]
A
How did the WhatsApp get involved?
[09:53]
B
Well, we realized that it really is a social currency for people who are planning events. So when we did consumer immersions, we're like, how do they plan these watch parties? And the answer is on their phone, typically via WhatsApp. And so we went to our partners in Meta and said, hey, we want to build a WhatsApp group for 10 million people, including four of the world's biggest celebrities. Can we do it? And after Nicola and the team sort of fell off their chairs, we said, okay, yeah, we can. And it took, you know, a year and over a year to develop and roll it out, but we're seeing incredible engagement. And back to the very first thing I said, of course we have the awareness, but we continue to want deeper engagement with our customers. We're seeing dwell times on that, you know, on the WhatsApp group of three, two to three minutes, which is, as you know, almost unheard of in digital channels because the content is live. It looks and feels like the regular WhatsApp group you're in, but guess what, you're chatting with Steve Carell. So a lot of planning, lots of scary moments during the year where we thought we'd never make it work, but we brought it to bear about six, six weeks ago, signing up a quarter of a million people a day. And we hope to continue that relationship with those consumers, post the tournament and continue to be a part of their lives. So very excited. Like all of these projects, it looks amazing now that it was done, but there are hard yards in the middle where you don't know how the tech's going to work. You, you know, how are you going to translate to 90 markets? How are you going to do real time content? All of these things are, have been worked out by the teams who worked night and day to get this done. But we're really, really pleased with it.
[11:29]
A
Johnny, not every brand gets to market a World cup or a Formula one execution. So what is a lesson from these programs that, you know, almost any other marketer could apply?
[11:39]
B
Yeah, that's a really brilliant question, John. And I think we're lucky to get to engage with these mega platforms that show up at a global level. All over the world. And I think the one thing I would always cancel is to really understand authentically what's your role within these partnerships, sponsorships, mega platforms, take your naming as you will. Too often you see brands that are inserting themselves into the area, into the property, and it feels almost incongruous or it just doesn't flow. And I really believe that, you know, consumers feel when a brand has a right to show up based on what it stands for and how it shows up in, you know, in those sports, for example, they're super important and they're very tempting for many brands because engaging with these mega platforms in a world where media has fragmented, it's harder to get to engaged audiences. We're all under pressure to grow and drive our businesses. In many cases, you're seeing these global mega platforms as some of the last territories in which everybody comes together with a time specific, highly engaged audience who are very committed to content consumption. And so I think for us, the filter is how do you show up authentically for lays while, you know, enjoying lays while watching a game, that is not a stretch for a person to understand why, because that's what they do with Doritos. How do we bring boldness of attitude and flavor and experience to F1 through taste? The thrill, like one of the insights we uncovered, data sets, insights on Formula One, is you have this fastest growing sport with a huge change in its demographics, but 99% of people will never experience a race because they're hard to get to and they're not everywhere in the world. And many of these people just don't get a chance to go there. And, and so we wanted to bring the thrill of that, the sensorial overload, if you will, of Formula One to people through our creative, through our WhatsApp groups, through our Instagram, through our partnerships with the drivers and so on. But for me, the fundamental start point is understanding your brand and how your brand credibly shows up in those areas. And, and the bottom line, John, is how do you make it better? That's your responsibility. Because if you're just using it for awareness, there are much, much more efficient, let's call it what it is, cheaper ways to do mass brand awareness than via, you know, things like FIFA or F1. But if you can show up in a way that you make it better and you drive engagement and awareness, then it's a real growth driver for our business. And we see that with our equity scores, we see that with our brand scores. Consumers who know and participate with our activity on These mega platforms, we see higher equity scores, which ultimately translates into growth.
[14:33]
A
Okay, changing gears for a second. Everybody is talking about AI. Where do you think it's genuinely changing marketing or where is it hype?
[14:42]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think it's genuinely changing. It's changing everything, I think is the general consensus. But more specifically, our ability to mine insights, to stress test insights, and where we've seen a lot of really cool work is the pace in which we can drive creativity from concept through to execution. Our ability to test at pace, our ability to get more content with more options in front of more people more quickly. Many of us have lived the world of brief to script to animatic to research to testing. Take your pick. You know, very long processes on what are very expensive brand assets that you don't always have the guarantees. You need to know if you should invest behind them. And it's definitely collapsing the creative process. I don't believe it's replacing the creative process. I believe it's collapsing it and allowing us to learn more, play more, do better things and be sharper on our insight. So that's really very exciting for us. I think the ability to understand, you know, consumer responses to innovation as well by doing multivariate testing, optimizing at pace again, shrinking time, and allowing us to test more things with more types of consumers more quickly in a global role, which is my current remit. It's really very helpful because the ability then to see the signals that you're getting from AI and test differently in multiple places, which historically was a real challenge. And you know, when you're operating in 70, 80, 90 markets is very, very exciting. The hype. I think there's negative hype around mass productivity, which can be frightening for people as what does it mean for us? I think this is a moment where we're going to learn to use it as a tool. You know, I was, I was very struck by some of the conversations coming. We spoke with Tor at Apple, for example. He's like, you know, you're in the driver's seat and AI is your co pilot. And I thought that was a lovely way to look at it. It's like, we'll still drive this, but we'll be able to drive it faster and better. So I think we're optimistic about this, but no doubt it's a. It's a period of change.
[16:48]
A
Are there other changes in marketing that you're kind of keeping your eye on?
[16:51]
B
I think the way in which we're planning media, I think the way in which we are rapidly evolving creative optimize like dco, which was a thing four or five years ago, is now happening in real time at pace. I think our insight mining is really changing, our innovation testing is really changing and our ability to, you know, again, interact and understand what consumer responses will be are huge spaces for us. The other, I mean the humanity as well that you can use AI, you know, you see this narrative that it's sort of replacement or if you will, aggregating emotion and human feeling, but it's also giving us signals that are telling us what is exciting to people, what we can lean into, how we can optimize our work to make it better. So I think it's going to touch everything. I mean, the project management and efficiency and those things are also, I think, you know, really starting to, to bite and it allows us to be faster and to be more efficient. But where I'm really excited is can we be more insightful? And I think we can, we can be more creative, more insightful and honestly do better work if we harness this. The flip side concern is, you know, we talked about this with many of our partners at Cannes. If every brand has access, totally democratized to all of the same creative tools, does everything coalesce to the middle? And it may, which will mean there will be a subsequent opportunities for brands and creativity to rise above that. And so I don't subscribe to the view that everyone will collapse to the mean. I think there will be some convergence and I think that's an opportunity to go and do brilliant brand building. It's just going to have to be done a little bit differently.
[18:27]
A
Okay, we've got time for one more. We ask all of our guests this question. Name a marketer or a brand that you admire and a question that you would have from for them.
[18:37]
B
Interesting. Yeah. So I think from a brand perspective I still have, and it's probably not super revolutionary, but I have a huge amount of admiration for Dove because of the if I go to the brand answer first. Because of their relentless commitment to a core unifying thought. And so it's because we've had multiple iterations of real beauty as society has changed over time. How that idea manifested was very different. When you go back to real beauty sketches versus how it's manifested five, six years ago in terms of toxic social content for teenagers and how it's manifesting now. And so I really admired their deep seated commitment to a core fundamental idea that's anchored in human truth. Because it is true. We are all beautiful in different ways. And I buy that. And the question for them, obviously, is how they can continue to resist the temptation to fold and go to the peripheries of that idea. I feel like they've reconstituted it time and time again without ever diluting it. And they're different things. They've redefined it, but they've never diluted it. And I wonder what that special sauce is because there's been generations of brand owners rolling through the brand. And as you know, John, we like to change things. We like our own ideas and everyone comes in and wants to move it along. And I'd like to bottle that because I really admire they've taken that over, you know, multi years, but in very different and very fresh ways that always feel very consumer centric.
[20:18]
A
Yeah, it's consumer centric and consistent. It's a great way to finish off here. Johnny Cahill, thank you so much for joining us.
[20:25]
B
No worries, John, thanks. I hope you enjoy the rest of the World cup and enjoy a few lays along the way.
[20:35]
A
That was Johnny Cahill, chief marketing officer of PepsiCo's international foods business. And I'm John Springer, senior reporter at Ad Age. I'd like to thank our producer, Lauren Ciardio, and remind you that you can subscribe to the Marketer's Brief wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for this week. We'll see you next time.

Summary6 min read

Ad Age Marketer's Brief — July 15, 2026 Episode: The Key to Making Sports Partnerships Pay Off, with PepsiCo's Jonnie Cahill

Episode Overview

This episode of Marketer’s Brief, hosted by John Springer, features an in-depth conversation with Jonnie Cahill, Chief Marketing Officer of PepsiCo’s international foods segment. As the World Cup draws to a close, the discussion centers on PepsiCo’s strategies for brand activations around major sports events (notably the World Cup), balancing innovation and brand heritage, making global campaigns feel local, and what marketers can learn from mega-sponsorship platforms—even if they’re not operating at the scale of Frito-Lay or Pepsi. The episode weaves in themes of emotional brand connection, authenticity in partnerships, innovation in digital engagement, and the current and future impact of AI on marketing practices.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. PepsiCo’s Brand Mission in a Changing Food Landscape

Timestamp: 01:10–03:01

Portfolio Transformation:
Cahill discusses PepsiCo’s challenge and opportunity: modernizing its established food brands in response to evolving consumer expectations while safeguarding what made those brands iconic.
- “We believe the opportunity is to drive portfolio transformation ... to adapt to a changing consumer landscape where we need to offer a much more diverse range of options, more nutrient density, more solutions on portion control and at the same time protecting a core business that brings joy to millions and billions of people around the world.” — Jonnie Cahill [01:24]
Example of Innovation:
“If I can give you a tangible example... Doritos Protein—where we’re really taking that core, really iconic, loved brand and bringing a new wave of benefits.” — Jonnie Cahill [02:09]

2. Balancing Core Identity and Innovation

Timestamp: 03:01–04:21

Brand Consistency:
The fundamental rule in managing legacy brands is ensuring constant recognizability, even as they evolve.
- “The brand is the brand, and the core identity is Doritos. The core tone of voice is Doritos. ... We always make sure these things are connected.” — Jonnie Cahill [03:17]
Pitfall:
Innovation that “pressures your core” can fragment the brand and confuse consumers.

3. Building Brands Across Categories

Timestamp: 04:21–05:45

Universal Lesson:
It’s about understanding the “why” behind consumer use—both functionally and emotionally.
- “What I do deeply believe ... is understand why people use your brands and your products, so what that functional delivery is, but also layer on the emotional differentiation and understand what it makes them feel.” — Jonnie Cahill [04:39]
- Citing work on brands as diverse as Guinness, Heineken, Doritos, and Lay’s.

4. World Cup Activation & the ‘No Lay’s, No Game’ Platform

Timestamp: 05:45–09:51

Campaign Philosophy:
The focus is on “occasion penetration”—making Lay’s synonymous with key communal moments (e.g., watching soccer).
- “Our strategy is really quite simple. It’s occasion penetration to make sure we show up in more moments to drive growth for the business.” — Jonnie Cahill [06:27]
“No Lay’s, No Game” Platform:
A multi-year, globally consistent push making Lay’s a must-have for football watching; using celebrities (Messi, Beckham, Henry, Steve Carell) to dramatize these moments.
Digital Engagement:
- Unique WhatsApp group activation partnered with Meta, incorporating celebrities into watch party planning, becoming “the biggest consumer activation ever with Meta for a CPG brand.”
  - “You’re chatting with Steve Carell ... signing up a quarter of a million people a day.” — Jonnie Cahill [10:40]
Product Tie-ins:
- 40 limited edition “Flavors of the World” to celebrate participating nations and drive excitement at shelf.

5. Authenticity in Sports Partnerships — Lessons for All Marketers

Timestamp: 11:29–14:33

Brand Role in Sponsorships:
Cahill underscores the importance of an authentic fit between brand and event.
- “Really understand authentically what’s your role within these partnerships, sponsorships, mega platforms ... Too often you see brands inserting themselves into the area, into the property, and it feels almost incongruous ...” — Jonnie Cahill [11:43]
Making Things Better:
The goal is to enhance the experience, not just gain awareness.
- “If you can show up in a way that you make it better and you drive engagement and awareness, then it’s a real growth driver for our business.” — Jonnie Cahill [14:11]

6. The Real Impact of AI on Marketing

Timestamp: 14:33–18:27

Where AI Delivers:
- Accelerating insight mining and concept-to-execution creativity.
- Enabling rapid innovation testing and multivariate optimization across global markets.
  - “Our ability to mine insights, to stress test insights ... the pace in which we can drive creativity from concept to execution ... definitely collapsing the creative process.” — Jonnie Cahill [14:44]
Humanity & Distinction:
- AI helps brands be more insightful and creative, but there’s a risk of convergence toward sameness if everyone uses the same tools.
  - “If every brand has access ... to all of the same creative tools, does everything coalesce to the middle? ... I think there will be some convergence and I think that’s an opportunity to go and do brilliant brand building.” — Jonnie Cahill [17:44]
Outlook:
Cahill is optimistic: “We’ll still drive this, but we’ll be able to drive it faster and better.” [16:13]

7. Admired Brand & Marketer

Timestamp: 18:27–20:17

Brand Admiration & the Power of Consistency:
- Cahill singles out Dove for its unwavering commitment to the “Real Beauty” platform across generations of marketers and changing societal contexts.
  - “I really admired their deep seated commitment to a core fundamental idea that’s anchored in human truth ... They’ve redefined it, but never diluted it.” — Jonnie Cahill [19:08]
Question for Dove:
Cahill wonders: “How can they continue to resist the temptation to fold and go to the peripheries of that idea?”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“We want to make it inconceivable to watch the World Cup or football or soccer without Lay’s.” — Jonnie Cahill [06:43]
“Like all of these projects, it looks amazing now... but there are hard yards in the middle where you don’t know how the tech’s going to work ... All of these things... have been worked out by the teams who worked night and day to get this done.” — Jonnie Cahill [11:10]
“The fundamental start point is understanding your brand and how your brand credibly shows up in those areas.” — Jonnie Cahill [13:25]
On AI: “I don’t believe it’s replacing the creative process. I believe it’s collapsing it and allowing us to learn more, play more, do better things and be sharper on our insight.” — Jonnie Cahill [15:07]

Timestamps for Important Segments

PepsiCo’s evolving food brand strategy: 01:10–03:01
Balancing brand core and innovation: 03:01–04:21
Universal lessons in brand building: 04:21–05:45
World Cup: Lay’s activation strategy & digital innovation: 05:45–09:51
WhatsApp campaign mechanics: 09:51–11:29
Lessons for marketers without mega-platforms: 11:29–14:33
AI’s actual vs. hyped influence on marketing: 14:33–18:27
Brand admiration and brand consistency: 18:27–20:17

Concluding Thought

Cahill leaves listeners with a pragmatic yet ambitious outlook: Marketers can succeed by staying relentlessly focused on both emotional relevance and authenticity—making sure the brand’s presence, particularly around big moments and platforms, always makes those moments better for consumers. All the while, strategic use of emerging tools like AI will supercharge (but not replace) creativity and insight, making this an exciting time for marketers willing to evolve, remain consistent, and maintain that human touch.

Loading summary

Transcript23 lines

[00:00]
A
Foreign. The World cup has given marketers six weeks of ideas, activations and sponsorships to dissect. Now, with the tournament winding down, it's a good time to ask what actually worked and what brands could learn from it. That's what we'll be discussing today with Johnny Cahill, chief marketing officer of PepsiCo's international foods business on the Marketer's Brief, our weekly discussion of marketing news and trends, the that have the industry buzzing. Cahill joined Pepsi last year after 12 years at Heineken, including seven years as its US CMO. He'll talk about PepsiCo's World cup strategy for lays why global campaigns have to feel local and how iconic brands can evolve without losing what made them successful in the first place. I'm John Springer, senior reporter at Ad Age and this is the Marketer's Brief pod. Johnny Cahill, welcome to the Marketer's Brief.
[01:07]
B
Hey John, great to be here. Yeah, glad to chat, looking forward to it.
[01:10]
A
Good. You've had a long journey in marketing, helping to shape Heineken's marketing. For example, before joining PepsiCo last year. What do you see as the opportunity at PepsiCo and what is the mission, if you will?
[01:23]
B
Yeah, well, I think on the, and I'm on the food side of the business, which is a really intriguing part of the PepsiCo portfolio where we believe the opportunity is to drive portfolio transformation in a way that adjusts a really established foods portfolio to adapt to a changing consumer landscape where we need to offer a much more diverse range of options, more nutrient density, you know, more solutions on portion control and at the same time protecting a core business that brings joy to millions and billions of people around the world in moments that we know and recognize from a birthday party to a movie to a picnic. But also recognizing that those moments and those occasions and the roles of those brands has to evolve over time. And I think we're very excited by the opportunity to capitalize on the core that we've built over the history of the organization with super iconic brands that we all know and love and at the same time say, hey, how can we evolve those brands to make them ever more relevant for changing consumer tastes? And that sounds like the kind of thing CMOs say, but like if I can give you a tangible example, I of something like Doritos protein, you know, where we're really taking that core really iconic loved brand and bringing a new wave of benefits through it to our R and D and science capabilities to make sure that the brand evolves for a different consumer occasion. A Different consumer moment and yet keeps what made it magic in the first place. So we're very excited by where this is all going, and I guess it goes back to fundamentals of managing your portfolio for today and also making sure that you have a relevant portfolio in the future, which history would show us PepsiCo has been able to do over. Over the years.
[03:02]
A
Yeah. You're marketing regular Doritos alongside protein Doritos. How is the. Is there subtle changes or how does it look to the consumer?
[03:11]
B
Yeah, from a consumer perspective, I mean, we obviously talk about the benefit, 10 grams of protein. There is visual differentiation between them. But as you know, with all of the CMOs you talk to, the brand is the brand, and the core identity is Doritos. The core tone of voice is Doritos. And so we build on what we've got from an equity perspective, but layer on incremental, evolved benefits for consumers. So we always make sure these things are connected. I think as a CMO and you see what we as a community struggle with. And you see when, John, when we get it wrong, it's when your innovation starts to pressure your core and the brands begin to fragment, then it gets a little bit weird for consumers who need those recognizable cues. So we will always show up in that example, like Doritos. But at the same time, we're offering a new layer of benefits for a changing set of consumer tastes. And that's just one of many examples. Sometimes it's new brands that you're bringing to the market to satisfy needs. Sometimes it's the evolution of loved brands that you've been working on for years and years. But I think fundamentals of, you know, good portfolio management is make. Make sure it's recognizable because you've built up so much equity in those brands over the years. That's not something you want to leave on the table.
[04:22]
A
Yeah. So, I mean, you've worked across spirits, beer, snacks. Now, is there one lesson about building brands that holds true no matter what the product is?
[04:28]
B
I think so. I mean, I think, you know, truly understanding the why behind people are using whatever category, and the why, I think is never only functional or only emotional. It's a little bit of both. You know, the more beautiful portfolios you have the privilege to work on as a CMO and I think as CMOs, you need to be humble and say, hey, you get your hands on these portfolios for a really short period of time, and really your only job is to leave them better than how you got them. But what I do deeply believe, having Seen it at Diageo or PepsiCo or Heineken or even in the telco business is understand why people use your brands and your products so what that functional delivery is. But also layer on the emotional differentiation and understand what it makes them feel. And I think if you can do those things, and I've been really fortunate to work on brands like Guinness or like Heineken or indeed like Doritos or lay's, the world's biggest food brand, they do things for consumers, but they also make them feel things. Those little moments of joy, for example, in the lay's world that happen billions of times a day around the world. So I don't know if there's a secret sauce that you can apply everywhere, but I would always start with what's it doing and how does it make people feel? And I think if you've got a good grip on that as a cmo, it's the beginning of a winning strategy for sure.
[05:45]
A
Okay, so our listeners can't see this, but you are wearing a World cup shirt and we're talking about lays. The campaign is really notable for a number of reasons. There's such an emphasis on sort of how fans experience the tournament together, you know, through creators and social and other ways. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that campaign and sort of, you know, how that changes the way you kind of think about building a campaign around an event like World Cup.
[06:11]
B
Yeah. And so back to the previous commenter and getting your hands on things. I mean, how lucky are we to have the World cup that basically unifies everybody around a shared set of values and feelings and moments, whether it's joy or heartbreak for some of our colleagues over the last couple of weeks in different markets around the world. And I think for us, if you imagine a brand like Lays on your platform, like the World cup we have, you know, it's one of the most recognizable brands in the world. So it's not for us about salience and awareness, although that's important. And it helps to grow your brand. It's about experience and actually showing up in a meaningful way for the people who interact with your brand. And so what we've tried to do is mirror the how the brand is used in that football watching occasion. And our strategy is really quite simple. It's occasion penetration to make sure we show up in more moments to drive growth for the business. And occasion penetration sounds highly strategic, but what does? What would a person say? That is, what we're trying to do is make it inconceivable to watch the World cup or football or soccer without Lays. And we want to make sure that in those moments when you're doing something you love and enjoy with your friends, your families or your compatriots or your work colleagues, and that Lays is always there. And so we understood that there's something that everybody does around the world, which is they plan the watch party, they get together to watch the game. And we've built this no Lays, no game platform over a number of years. And consistency was a topic you might have heard at Cannes a lot over the last couple of weeks. It's like a multi year, multi award winning campaign that delivers that concept of, you know what, don't ever watch the game without Lays. Because it's better with Lays. And we feel really fortunate because the brand and the product naturally shows up in the World cup moment. It's harder if you're on Visa or Aramco or other brands because you're not necessarily linked to the football watching moment in a way that we are because it's quite logical to have a beer if you're Abi, to have some chips if you're Lays. That makes sense for us to show up in these moments. So we want to make it inconceivable to watch a game without Lays. And we do that by dramatizing our celebrities planning their watch party. Messi, Beckham, Thierry Henry and Steve Carell, who represents the other fan, the one who isn't an expert, the one who's not that pushed about the World cup, the one who asked the dumb questions, but the very human questions that we all sometimes have watching sport and then from a, let's call it a streaming asset or a broadcast video asset, we also get into the world of doing John. So our WhatsApp group, which is the biggest consumer activation ever with matter for a CPG brand, allows people to to participate in an epic watch party group where they plan the watch parties with Steve Carell, with Leo Messi, with Thierry Henry, with David Beckham. So those celebrities are in your pocket the same way your friends are in your pocket planning a watch party at home. And then we drive conversion. So that's beautiful at a, let's call it upper funnel and digital connectivity level. But we also have 40 limited edition flavors, flavors of the world from the countries that are playing to do the brilliant basics that help grow your business. Shelf share off shelf display occasion and channel penetration and excitement because we have amazing flavor engineers who can make almost anything. So whether it's bangers and mash in the UK or Brazilian garlic sauce, we're able to bring those to people as well. So we dramatize the party, we help you participate in the planning via WhatsApp, and we deliver the products for that party as well to make sure that when you watch the game with Lays, it's as good as it can be.
[09:51]
A
How did the WhatsApp get involved?
[09:53]
B
Well, we realized that it really is a social currency for people who are planning events. So when we did consumer immersions, we're like, how do they plan these watch parties? And the answer is on their phone, typically via WhatsApp. And so we went to our partners in Meta and said, hey, we want to build a WhatsApp group for 10 million people, including four of the world's biggest celebrities. Can we do it? And after Nicola and the team sort of fell off their chairs, we said, okay, yeah, we can. And it took, you know, a year and over a year to develop and roll it out, but we're seeing incredible engagement. And back to the very first thing I said, of course we have the awareness, but we continue to want deeper engagement with our customers. We're seeing dwell times on that, you know, on the WhatsApp group of three, two to three minutes, which is, as you know, almost unheard of in digital channels because the content is live. It looks and feels like the regular WhatsApp group you're in, but guess what, you're chatting with Steve Carell. So a lot of planning, lots of scary moments during the year where we thought we'd never make it work, but we brought it to bear about six, six weeks ago, signing up a quarter of a million people a day. And we hope to continue that relationship with those consumers, post the tournament and continue to be a part of their lives. So very excited. Like all of these projects, it looks amazing now that it was done, but there are hard yards in the middle where you don't know how the tech's going to work. You, you know, how are you going to translate to 90 markets? How are you going to do real time content? All of these things are, have been worked out by the teams who worked night and day to get this done. But we're really, really pleased with it.
[11:29]
A
Johnny, not every brand gets to market a World cup or a Formula one execution. So what is a lesson from these programs that, you know, almost any other marketer could apply?
[11:39]
B
Yeah, that's a really brilliant question, John. And I think we're lucky to get to engage with these mega platforms that show up at a global level. All over the world. And I think the one thing I would always cancel is to really understand authentically what's your role within these partnerships, sponsorships, mega platforms, take your naming as you will. Too often you see brands that are inserting themselves into the area, into the property, and it feels almost incongruous or it just doesn't flow. And I really believe that, you know, consumers feel when a brand has a right to show up based on what it stands for and how it shows up in, you know, in those sports, for example, they're super important and they're very tempting for many brands because engaging with these mega platforms in a world where media has fragmented, it's harder to get to engaged audiences. We're all under pressure to grow and drive our businesses. In many cases, you're seeing these global mega platforms as some of the last territories in which everybody comes together with a time specific, highly engaged audience who are very committed to content consumption. And so I think for us, the filter is how do you show up authentically for lays while, you know, enjoying lays while watching a game, that is not a stretch for a person to understand why, because that's what they do with Doritos. How do we bring boldness of attitude and flavor and experience to F1 through taste? The thrill, like one of the insights we uncovered, data sets, insights on Formula One, is you have this fastest growing sport with a huge change in its demographics, but 99% of people will never experience a race because they're hard to get to and they're not everywhere in the world. And many of these people just don't get a chance to go there. And, and so we wanted to bring the thrill of that, the sensorial overload, if you will, of Formula One to people through our creative, through our WhatsApp groups, through our Instagram, through our partnerships with the drivers and so on. But for me, the fundamental start point is understanding your brand and how your brand credibly shows up in those areas. And, and the bottom line, John, is how do you make it better? That's your responsibility. Because if you're just using it for awareness, there are much, much more efficient, let's call it what it is, cheaper ways to do mass brand awareness than via, you know, things like FIFA or F1. But if you can show up in a way that you make it better and you drive engagement and awareness, then it's a real growth driver for our business. And we see that with our equity scores, we see that with our brand scores. Consumers who know and participate with our activity on These mega platforms, we see higher equity scores, which ultimately translates into growth.
[14:33]
A
Okay, changing gears for a second. Everybody is talking about AI. Where do you think it's genuinely changing marketing or where is it hype?
[14:42]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think it's genuinely changing. It's changing everything, I think is the general consensus. But more specifically, our ability to mine insights, to stress test insights, and where we've seen a lot of really cool work is the pace in which we can drive creativity from concept through to execution. Our ability to test at pace, our ability to get more content with more options in front of more people more quickly. Many of us have lived the world of brief to script to animatic to research to testing. Take your pick. You know, very long processes on what are very expensive brand assets that you don't always have the guarantees. You need to know if you should invest behind them. And it's definitely collapsing the creative process. I don't believe it's replacing the creative process. I believe it's collapsing it and allowing us to learn more, play more, do better things and be sharper on our insight. So that's really very exciting for us. I think the ability to understand, you know, consumer responses to innovation as well by doing multivariate testing, optimizing at pace again, shrinking time, and allowing us to test more things with more types of consumers more quickly in a global role, which is my current remit. It's really very helpful because the ability then to see the signals that you're getting from AI and test differently in multiple places, which historically was a real challenge. And you know, when you're operating in 70, 80, 90 markets is very, very exciting. The hype. I think there's negative hype around mass productivity, which can be frightening for people as what does it mean for us? I think this is a moment where we're going to learn to use it as a tool. You know, I was, I was very struck by some of the conversations coming. We spoke with Tor at Apple, for example. He's like, you know, you're in the driver's seat and AI is your co pilot. And I thought that was a lovely way to look at it. It's like, we'll still drive this, but we'll be able to drive it faster and better. So I think we're optimistic about this, but no doubt it's a. It's a period of change.
[16:48]
A
Are there other changes in marketing that you're kind of keeping your eye on?
[16:51]
B
I think the way in which we're planning media, I think the way in which we are rapidly evolving creative optimize like dco, which was a thing four or five years ago, is now happening in real time at pace. I think our insight mining is really changing, our innovation testing is really changing and our ability to, you know, again, interact and understand what consumer responses will be are huge spaces for us. The other, I mean the humanity as well that you can use AI, you know, you see this narrative that it's sort of replacement or if you will, aggregating emotion and human feeling, but it's also giving us signals that are telling us what is exciting to people, what we can lean into, how we can optimize our work to make it better. So I think it's going to touch everything. I mean, the project management and efficiency and those things are also, I think, you know, really starting to, to bite and it allows us to be faster and to be more efficient. But where I'm really excited is can we be more insightful? And I think we can, we can be more creative, more insightful and honestly do better work if we harness this. The flip side concern is, you know, we talked about this with many of our partners at Cannes. If every brand has access, totally democratized to all of the same creative tools, does everything coalesce to the middle? And it may, which will mean there will be a subsequent opportunities for brands and creativity to rise above that. And so I don't subscribe to the view that everyone will collapse to the mean. I think there will be some convergence and I think that's an opportunity to go and do brilliant brand building. It's just going to have to be done a little bit differently.
[18:27]
A
Okay, we've got time for one more. We ask all of our guests this question. Name a marketer or a brand that you admire and a question that you would have from for them.
[18:37]
B
Interesting. Yeah. So I think from a brand perspective I still have, and it's probably not super revolutionary, but I have a huge amount of admiration for Dove because of the if I go to the brand answer first. Because of their relentless commitment to a core unifying thought. And so it's because we've had multiple iterations of real beauty as society has changed over time. How that idea manifested was very different. When you go back to real beauty sketches versus how it's manifested five, six years ago in terms of toxic social content for teenagers and how it's manifesting now. And so I really admired their deep seated commitment to a core fundamental idea that's anchored in human truth. Because it is true. We are all beautiful in different ways. And I buy that. And the question for them, obviously, is how they can continue to resist the temptation to fold and go to the peripheries of that idea. I feel like they've reconstituted it time and time again without ever diluting it. And they're different things. They've redefined it, but they've never diluted it. And I wonder what that special sauce is because there's been generations of brand owners rolling through the brand. And as you know, John, we like to change things. We like our own ideas and everyone comes in and wants to move it along. And I'd like to bottle that because I really admire they've taken that over, you know, multi years, but in very different and very fresh ways that always feel very consumer centric.
[20:18]
A
Yeah, it's consumer centric and consistent. It's a great way to finish off here. Johnny Cahill, thank you so much for joining us.
[20:25]
B
No worries, John, thanks. I hope you enjoy the rest of the World cup and enjoy a few lays along the way.
[20:35]
A
That was Johnny Cahill, chief marketing officer of PepsiCo's international foods business. And I'm John Springer, senior reporter at Ad Age. I'd like to thank our producer, Lauren Ciardio, and remind you that you can subscribe to the Marketer's Brief wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for this week. We'll see you next time.