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Ad Age Marketer's Brief
Using brand partnerships to market to younger audiences with Netflix VP of global marketing
00:21:55
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A
Hi, I'm Brandon Dorer, creativity and media innovation reporter at Ad Age. Welcome to another edition of the Marketer's Brief Podcast, our weekly discussion of news and trends that have the industry buzzing. Netflix has big ambitions for its ad business and brand partnerships are becoming a major piece of that growth story. The streamer has projected its ad revenue will double to 3 billion this year, helped by co created campaigns tied to some of its biggest IP from McDonald's ads in the style of Stranger Things and K Pop Demon Hunters to Jake from State Farm showing up in Running point. On the latest episode of the Marketer's Brief Podcast, Netflix VP of Global Brand Marketing and partnerships Magno Herron breaks down how those deals come together, why they remain a key part of the company's upfront pitch, and how Netflix is thinking about reaching younger fans beyond its own platform. Before we hop into the interview, I want to call your attention to a new awards program. Ad Age Midsize Brand leaders honor senior in house marketing leaders making a difference at mid market brands, typically companies with $50 million to $1 billion in annual revenue. Does this sound like you or anyone you know? Find out more including how to enter@adage.com midsize
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B
foreign.
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A
O' Haran. Welcome to the Marketers Brief podcast.
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B
Thanks for having me, Brandon. It's good to get a chance to connect with you.
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A
Yeah, same. Thank you so much for, for joining us. I, I know this is a, this is a busy week for all of our listeners. We are recording the week before upfront, so I'm swamped. You guys are swamped. Everyone's swamped in the TV space. So yeah, really appreciate you being willing to jump on this and chat. All right, well, let's start to jump in and chat. So I know since the start of the year you have helped lead a number of campaigns and brand partnerships between Netflix and various brand partners. There was a McDonald's K pop demon Hunters collaboration recently, Bridgerton and Dove, Running Point and State Farm, and a variety of brand partners. Actually, maybe we can start by talking a little bit about just how these partnerships come together. Who approaches who, like how do these deals actually formulate? Since I know that is a big part of your job is kind of putting these together.
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B
There's so many ways into these things, right? There's certainly the stance of like where we are very proactive about it, where we take a look at a script and we identify moments and then we think about potential brands that have either done interesting work in culture or willing to take big risks and Then we approach them with an idea and it kind of goes from there. There's instances where brands come to us and they're like, hey, listen, we fell in love with that series or that show and we want to be a part of it. And then we start thinking about, is there an authentic match between them? And then try to find a space in between. And then the running point, because you mentioned upfronts, is a really interesting one because it was a conversation with the StateFAR team at our upfronts, with Bella, actually our chief Content officer. And that sparked a conversation and then we landed where we landed. So there's multiple ways in, but at all times it requires a lot of, like, understanding of the brands and what they're trying to accomplish, understanding the series, the fandoms associated with them, and trying to find these unique intersections that you couldn't do with any other brand.
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A
Can we actually walk through, like, using the. The State Farm running point as an example, like the early formations of that all the way to the end campaign that rolled out and the way that brand appeared in. In the show, since you mentioned that it happened at upfronts, can you walk us through, like, in that particular case, how. How that partnership kind of came to life?
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B
Yeah, I mean, look, I think State Farm has done such a good job of being really part of the sports world, right? They show up in and around all sorts of events. And because the show is so rooted in basketball, that's kind of what the original conversation was about. It was like, hey, listen, our team advertises, isn't around, sponsors, all sorts of sporting events. You guys have this one show you're also going into live. So it's a very general conversation at that stage in terms of, like, there's a ton of credibility from a brand like State Farm to participate in anything NBA related. And then the interesting stuff happens where, like, we have an internal creative team that's really dedicated at finding those unique intersections that might make sense. Trying to connect culture and conversations that are happening in the world with what's happening in the shows themselves. And that's where the idea that Jake himself was such an iconic character, like, you see him walking around any one of these sporting events and he's a celebrity in his own right. And then the idea and the premise of the show itself, you know, is like, it's this band of misfits, right? That in any given moment they're a liability to the team, to themselves. And Ayla is trying to kind of wrangle it all together. And that's where the spark came about of like, wow, we could bring in Jake and pair him with Travis, who is like the biggest liability to the team, and build a whole campaign around that. And the appearance in the show itself is just a cameo, is just a nod to the fact that he's there. And then the storytelling really happens in the campaign that was created afterwards.
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A
Do these partnerships, do you guys always handle that in house? Do you ever work with agencies or other partners on kind of forming these partnerships?
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B
No, we actually work. We collaborate with partners. There was a partner on that one. We have an in house creative team and sometimes we do take the work on other times we just partner really closely with the creative agency and the brands themselves and we share what we each bring to the table. So our team is very much rooted in a creative bar that we think is going to resonate with the fans themselves of the shows. Really deep understanding of the themes, the characters, the story, storylines that happen in our characters and how the fans react to that. And then we work with the brands and sometimes their agencies in terms of like, they have the best understanding of what the brand stands for and what the brand is trying to accomplish. And so that's where that like beautiful marriage comes together.
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A
Right? Totally. Yeah, that makes sense. I actually want to talk a little bit in a, in a bit about Netflix's bar. Right. For, for these partnerships, especially since, you know, this episode is going to be running during Up Fronts weekend. Really quick first, can we talk about how the process of like a partnership with State Farm and Running Point. Right. Integrating the brand to the. Into the show. How does that maybe differ from a different type of partnership you guys sometimes do with brands where you will like a K pop, demon hunters, McDonald's situation where you will kind of co create an ad maybe in the style of the show. Are there significant differences if you're trying to integrate a brand into one of your properties versus kind of just co creating like a spot in a campaign together?
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B
Yeah, I mean, I think they're similar in some ways. Right. They're similar in the fact that we always want to be idea led. We always want to make sure that there's something to tell the fans of the show or the people that we're trying to reach. That makes sense. And then the integration piece just requires that extra layer of authenticity. Right. It's just if we're going to put it into a show, it has to make sense for the storyline and it can't be disruptive. And so we work really upstream at the scripting. Stage with the creators of the shows themselves to understand where something might make sense. Sense or not. In the case of Jake, it just made sense because like I mentioned, he's so endemic. He does show up to basketball games and his cameo was very much in that vein. He was showing up at a basketball game. Nod from Isla and the crew. And then the storytelling happens at the. In the campaign themselves, which are always co created. Right. So for us, the integration is just one element of a potential bigger campaign rooted in a single idea that we think is going to resonate with the fans of the show itself.
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A
Got it. Okay. Okay. So what is I guess the, the more common form of partnership for Netflix right now? And I guess what is Netflix more interested in, like from a. From a brand perspective? Maybe we could talk a little bit about like is your, is Netflix's need changing in terms of what it looks for in a brand partner? Or what are you guys looking for from the. From your brand partners these days?
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B
You know, it's interesting because our, our premise has stayed pretty true for the past several years, actually. We've just kind of been able to do it now at scale because the slate is so interesting because we've gotten more tract market. And you hear this all the time, right? People seek authenticity. People seek to do things in a way that makes sense for the fans. You don't want a logo slap, all these things you hear out in the marketplace. But what I think we've been able to do is prove it out in the executions themselves. And that's why we pay so much close attention and we have this internal creative team and the folks that are talking to the brands themselves understand that you can't just say you want to be authentic to a specific piece of show or a fandom and do a partnership. You have to actually deliver on that promise. And so the ambition hasn't changed or the need hasn't changed. We're still seeking partners that want to take a big swing, that want to tap into the cultural conversation around these shows, that want to do it authentically and most importantly, that want to co create with us. And then from there we have all these different levers now. Right. We could advertise on the ads tier and put an ad right in front of the show. And what would that look like in the context? How was that then translate to something that happens on social. If we do an integration because it makes sense, how does that then connect to the broader story and campaign that we're trying to tell? So the root of the campaigns and the essence of what we're trying to accomplish is the same. It's just now we have more levers at our disposal to build these campaigns and make them travel in different ways.
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A
Yeah. Can you go into a little bit more detail about sort of the. The bar that you set for brand partnerships you mentioned? Right. You want brands that are going to really tap into the. The culture around the show. Like, can you give some examples of, like, what tangibly do you actually look for in terms of brands being willing to engage with, with the show beyond just like throwing a product into the background?
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B
Yeah. So it's actually, you know, initially sometimes a painful part of the discussion. Right. We spend a lot of time on the strategy portion of it because we're always seeking, you know, creativity over volume. We want to make sure that we have the right partners, are going to provide the right level of impact for the show itself, but also for the business needs of these brands that want to participate with us. They come in with KPIs, sometimes it's sales metrics, sometimes it's brand lift studies or affinity and things like that. And we want to understand that very deeply before we even get into any creative conversation or agreement that we will participate together. Once we understand that we go into this phase of like co creating a nugget of an idea, do we have territories that make sense? Does it feel authentic or not? And in that process, you start understanding what brands really want to take this on, what brands just really want to give their logo and have us just run it all over the show. And that is an interesting process in itself. That takes some time. These partnerships take quite a bit of time. Like 18 months out, 12 months out would be a scary one to take on. Right. You think about something like McDonald's and the amount of details in every single element that went into that. That takes time. That takes collaboration. That takes collaboration with Maggie and Chris, the creators, to make sure that they have their touch on what the campaign is itself. So it really is about spending that amount of time up front, understanding what brands are trying to accomplish and then making sure that we have the right fit to work together. So we're not afraid to say no. And that's sometimes an unpopular opinion. And it's really not about being elitist or anything. It's other than like, we want these campaigns to work and we have a really good pulse of what the fans of the shows or films themselves want to engage with. And we just want brands that want to take part in that.
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A
What are the reasons you Most commonly, like, have to turn down a partnership so that listeners can maybe avoid, like, some of that stuff. Yeah.
- [11:55]
B
The biggest ones are like, when it's obviously not natural, a natural fit for the show. Right. And again, it's. It might be that that opportunity isn't right. And we always keep the door open to. To come back to the table. But like, you know, an ev in a Bridgerton in the show will never make sense. Right. That's a fairly obvious example. But you'd be surprised. Sometimes these things come up and so it's about really like, you know what, that, that might not make sense for this opportunity, but let's figure out another moment that does. And the other one really is like, you know, does. Does the model make sense? Like, do. Do you guys want to spend as much time collaborating on these things and making sure that we have the right storytelling? And sometimes the answer naturally comes out and it's like, you know what? Not just yet, but let's come back to the table when it really makes sense against some business objective that. So the door's always open. We're always taking conversations. We're really excited about upfronts, and the conversations will come and we'll highlight some of these examples. And then, you know, the interesting part about this is as we've built this body of work and are able to scale it now, not just in the U.S. but all over Brazil, Mexico, Korea, Japan, all over Europe, that we're seeing the right metrics, right? We're seeing that the brand affinity is really paying off. We're also seeing that lower funnel metrics like purchase intent are moving the needle as well. So we're starting to build a really interesting body of work that this process, that this way of engaging, that this high bar for creative execution in the spirit of serving the fans of the show that they're trying to reach, really does work when you spend the time and effort to do it. Right.
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A
Yeah. I actually wanted to talk a little bit about entertainment marketing and marketing these shows, like, looking at broader trends. What are some of the bigger challenges to marketing to write fans of these shows and potentially like, how are you guys approaching these partnerships in ways that. That address these challenges? When I think about young Gen Z fans of these shows watching, you also have to compete with social media and the variety of other platforms that they're paying attention to. There was an IAB study that came out actually earlier this week that showed that social ad spend for the first time is actually starting to outpace CTV ad spend. When you think about These challenges, are there particular ways that you approach these partnerships to address them? And I guess, what would you say are the biggest challenges right now?
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B
Yeah, I mean, I think you have to really understand the audience that you're trying to serve. Right. And I think for us, and why we think about all the levers that we have at our disposal, you know, what does an ad on Netflix look like? What should that be? And that, in our mind, should be as entertaining as the content itself. Right. And that's a starting point for us. So if you're. If you're watching something on Netflix, you want to be entertained. And so we really think about what that could look like. But then we think about these bigger 360 campaigns that we work with partners on and how does it live on social. It's not the same ad that you would run ported over, but there's got to be an element to that that lives there. Right. So, you know, the McDonald's campaign is a good example where we really thought about every touch point. What does the custom animation look like? What is the music video that we revealed at the end look like? And how does that get distributed through the McDonald's channels as well to reach the right audience? How do the collectible cards take form, and how do we follow that collectible card way of operating and making sure it's authentic to that? So the biggest challenge, really, is that all the consumers and fans of the shows that we're trying to reach are so sophisticated in the way that they engage. And it's up to us as marketers to really meet them where they are in the channels that they're speaking. So we take great pride and effort in trying to make sure that we, at every touch point, have something that adds value to their experience and isn't distracting from what they're actually trying to do, which is engage with the shows or characters themselves.
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A
Yeah, I would imagine this varies from campaign to campaign. But what actually is like Netflix's media mix look like these days?
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B
It is, like you said, Brandon, super partner dependent. And again, it starts with that early phase where we're like, understanding what the goals are and what we're trying to accomplish. There's no doubt that when you put an ad on Netflix or right in front of the show itself, if you're able to tell the right story, then it's going to resonate quite well. It's going to set you in the right mind frame to then watch the show. So we use that a lot as an anchor point for a lot of these campaigns. But then we think about you more broadly. Where can these things live? Where are those audiences living? And then we very custom build the media mix very specific to each campaign itself. An interesting one also on Netflix, but a different context because it was in the context of live is. We had an incredible collection of partnerships for Stranger Things and some that really went in world and went back to the 80s to tell some of these really unique stories. We had Gatorade, Tide, Target, a couple others. And what we were able to do is put them together in a pod inside one of our NFL games. And that was just a really fun break for people to experience that. And then we figured out ways to tell that story on social as well. So we're very creative with our partners and spend a lot of time co creating even the media plans that go into these things because we think that's the best way to get a hold of these folks. There's no such thing as like, oh, they're going to see this asset first and then it's going to run to here. And then the next phase is this, like people experience things in so many different ways and we just want to make sure we have something for all these elements.
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A
Right? Yeah. That the funnel is not shaped in the same way that it, that it used to be. Right?
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Yeah. It's not linear. It's not as linear as we'd like it to look on a slide with a media plan. And so you just gotta account for that.
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Got it, got it. I'm curious what you think other marketers who might be listening to this could, could learn from Netflix's approach, like totally agnostic to category or what they're in. Do you see, like, potentially there are things that Netflix is doing that other marketers could learn from and potentially even adopt.
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B
Yeah. I mean, I think, look, Marian or CMO reminds us every day that we're here to serve our fans. Right. And I think that is a North Star for everything that we do from our own marketing campaigns. And that extends to the partnerships as we've talked about. Right. And I think having that mentality just really makes you understand who you're trying to speak to. Right. To the point where we really speak their language. You see, like our marquee on Sunset, like that is in the tone of voice of the fan of the show that we're referencing in that it's directly could be lifted from a social media conversation that happened. And so I think for me, like, the biggest learning is that is like, you have to really be true to that. Because if you are, the chances of you connecting with them on any campaign is much higher than when you're just trying to serve an ad to them that doesn't quite click with what they're doing already talking about.
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A
Totally, totally. Can I ask, given your proximity to the upfronts, like, what you see as, I guess, one potential like trend or one way that this year might differ from from last year or other years that you've participated and maybe like one big challenge unique to this year as well.
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B
I think cutting through is a tough one. Right. Like you want to. Everyone's so busy that week and there's so many meetings. And so you want to make sure that your presence and your engagements directly with the brands themselves or agencies are compelling. And so I think you'll find with our show, we're really trying to take an approach where the show is super entertaining. The show itself gets you closer to the content and the opportunities that we have for advertisers, and also making sure that there's a clear understanding of how our ads products are really getting you that much closer to the shows themselves. And so I'm excited that we're going to be able to tell that story. So I think it really is about that is really how do we, as Netflix, they're so good at content and so good at technology, bring these two things together in one compelling story. So I think you'll see some of that from us. And I'm excited about the show itself. I think everyone's going to be really pleasantly surprised.
- [19:50]
A
Yeah, this will be my first year attending, so I'm actually excited to check it out. One question we like to ask all of our guests on the Marketers brief is do you have a question for another CMO or marketer? Right. Like if we had another marketer on the call with us, what's a big question that you have for another CMO right now? It can be someone specific or just kind of like of a broad general question. What's the question you would ask a marketer right now?
- [20:17]
B
There's a lot of conversation around what is the right mix between brand building and performance marketing. And I'm always very curious to understand from and the answer changes from CMO to CMO and obviously from service and product to product. But I love that line of thinking because I'm in the camp that you can't do one without the other and that your campaigns don't necessarily have to serve one thing right if you're smart about it, if you build them the right way that you can actually execute across a full funnel. So that's something that I've been curious about and I hear it more and more in the conversations that we're having. Yeah, we'd love to do that, but right now we really have to focus on more performance type driven things. And I'm like, oh, maybe there's a way to do both.
- [21:02]
A
All right, I think that is a great point to go out on. Thank you again. Thanks so much for joining us on the on the Marketers brief and taking some time.
- [21:09]
B
I appreciate your time, Brandon. Thank you. And I look forward to hopefully seeing you at upfronts.
- [21:20]
A
That was Magno Heron, VP of Global Brand Marketing and Partnerships at Netflix. Brandon I'm Brandon Doerr, Creativity and Media Innovation Reporter at Ad Age. I'd like to thank our producer, Lauren Ciardio, and invite you to subscribe to the Marketer's Brief podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, we promise to keep it brief. Marketer's brief listeners get $40 off an AdAge.com subscription, sharpen your marketing edge and visit AdAge.com brief for your disc.