Joe Pistone, AKA Donnie Brasco, Was Almost Murdered by the Mafia

Summary

The Adam Carolla Show – Podcast Summary: Joe Pistone, AKA Donnie Brasco, Was Almost Murdered by the Mafia
Release Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Adam Carolla
Guest: Joe Pistone (FBI legend, aka Donnie Brasco)
Co-host on News: Jason “Mayhem” Miller

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Episode Overview

This episode features a riveting in-depth interview with retired FBI agent Joe Pistone, famously known for his undercover alias Donnie Brasco. Pistone discusses the challenges and dangers of infiltrating the Mafia, how he survived near-death scenarios, the realities of undercover work, and insider perspectives on Mafia culture, myth versus reality, and his own story as depicted in film. The conversation is candid, full of streetwise insights, and laced with Adam Carolla’s characteristic humor.

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Key Topics and Discussion Points

Joe Pistone’s Path into the FBI and Undercover Work

[03:50 – 05:54] — Joe Joins, Goes Undercover

• Pistone describes growing up a “street kid” in Patterson, NJ, always intent on a law enforcement career (“I always knew I wanted to be a police officer... even though I grew up in a pretty rough neighborhood.” [05:07])
• He details the requirements for joining the FBI, for which he used prior Naval Intelligence experience.

[06:08 – 07:36] — Becoming Donnie Brasco

• Going undercover wasn’t institutional at the time (“There was no real undercover program in the FBI... maybe 25, 30 of us.” [04:21]).
• Pistone explains he was chosen for undercover work because of his street smarts and ability to “fit in”.

The Name:

• The alias “Donnie Brasco” came from a protective cousin: “He ended up being a minister... I always admired him.” [06:43]
• Pistone recounts asking his cousin permission to use his name, not realizing the eventual fame it would garner.

Early Deep Cover Assignments

[08:23 – 13:16] — Car Thefts and Learning to Be a Criminal

• Early ops included infiltrating a car theft ring that specially stole high-end cars to order: “The way it worked is you came to us and said, ‘Hey, I want a Mercedes Benz’...then we go to the dealership and hook it for you.” [08:33]
• Adam Carolla geeks out on the details (using slim jims, pulling ignitions, changing VINs) and Pistone explains how the operation worked, as well as the crucial role of corrupt DMV contacts.
• On getting caught: Pistone tells a tense story about nearly being discovered by a Florida State Trooper, concluding, “That was the last time I ever carried a gun undercover. What am I going to do if he busts me for the gun?” [15:05].
• The importance of not blowing his cover, even if arrested (“You never give it up. You go to jail. You take the bus and go.” [13:47])

Undercover Inside the Mafia

[16:39 – 22:18] — Gambling Dens and Mafia Inroads

• Stealing cars led to deeper undercover roles, including posing in illegal gambling houses (“They were like casinos... poker tables, craps, roulette.” [17:05])
• Move to New York puts Pistone back on the Mafia’s doorstep, first via a truck hijacking squad, where hijackings and fencing were routine and involved inside help from truckers.

Mafia Fencing Culture:

• Emphasized how integrated “stolen” goods were into ordinary life (e.g., food and shrimp fencing ended up at major grocery chains).
• Adam draws parallels to everyday grifting and ‘flexible morality’, with both agreeing: “People are griftable...They have a high potential for grift.” [21:25]

Penetrating the Mafia and Surviving Suspicion

[25:07 – 37:18] — Deep Cover, Life and Death

• Pistone gets close to the Colombo family, but a dispute over refusing to take part in some crimes leads to a deadly confrontation (“Frankie puts a gun on the table...‘If you don’t convince me... the only way you’re leaving is rolled up in that rug.’” [33:26])

Survival Tactics:

• “You always want to be on the offense. I don’t want to be on the defense.” [34:26]
• Avoiding participation in certain crimes risked his cover, leading to physical confrontation; Pistone describes “laying out” one associate and getting beaten by a made man because Mafia rules prevent retaliating against ‘made guys’.

Transition to Bonanno Family:

• After departing the Colombo crew, Pistone meets Bonanno associate Tony Mirra, creating the pathway depicted in the film Donnie Brasco.

“Legend” Development:

• Origin of the “jewel thief” backstory (“Whatever you say your legend is, you have to know it...I went to Zales. Learned about diamonds and precious gems.” [27:00–27:44])
• Adam asks about the elaborate preparation, learning safe-cracking, alarms, fencing, etc.; Pistone learned from FBI techs and jewelers.

Donnie Brasco – The Movie vs. Reality

[37:33 – 43:22]

• Film is “85% on the money,” with exceptions (the domestic violence scene, the hacking-up-the-body scene, and therapy visit – all invented by Hollywood).
• Johnny Depp specifically requested Pistone’s presence on set. “He is a true gentleman. And we’re friends to this day... He came and spent hours with my wife when she was very sick.” [41:20]
• Pacino suggested Depp: “Al Pacino actually suggested it. He said, ‘You oughta send this script to Johnny Depp.’” [44:53]

The Cost and Consequences of Undercover Work

[42:12 – 51:53] — Life with a Bounty & Emotional Toll

• Pistone reveals he was never in witness protection (“No, I never was. But there was a bounty on me – $500,000.” [42:13, 42:20])
• Living under constant threat; informs Adam how informants notified the FBI of the bounty (“Informants went to the bureau...‘Commission’s put out $500,000 on the agent.’” [43:47])
• The toll on his family, and elaborate procedures for visiting them under false pretenses.

Daily Mafia Reality and Loyalty

[51:33 – 62:17]

• Infiltration meant 24/7 commitment: “Once you infiltrate, it’s seven days a week. I’m not living at home...So I’m spending every holiday with these guys.”
• Developing genuine connections: “…you don’t spend 15 hours a day, seven days a week with guys and not find something in common.” [51:35–51:53]
• But: “Every guy I hung around with...was a killer.” [52:01]

Making Your Bones/Mafia Rituals:

• Only way to be ‘made’: commit murder—“You had to make your bones. Had to hit somebody.” [52:08]
• Some were made by lie/connection, but this was the rule.

Contracted to Kill:

• Pistone got a contract to kill a rival – how the FBI planned to fake the hit if he found the target. [53:14]

Handling the Fallout:

• Testified in 17 trials, 247 convictions resulting; Pistone felt no remorse: “They killed Sonny Black, Tony Mirra, Jilly got shot…I never felt bad for anybody, Adam.” [56:37]

Keeping Up Cover, Family, and Paper Trails

[58:14 – 60:00]

• Maintaining family ties meant elaborate cover stories and plane tickets under several names: “I told them I had a girlfriend in California...then I’d jump on another flight under a different name.” [58:20]
• Relied on “contact agents” and landline check-ins (“Back in the landline days.” [59:49])

Myths, Hollywood vs. Reality, and the State of the Mob Today

[60:08 – 67:24]

• Pistone’s crew “looked down” on prostitution; dealt mostly in gambling, fencing, some drugs, some strip clubs.
• “Goodfellas was pretty accurate, but Donnie Brasco showed more of the day-to-day life. Mob isn’t as glamorous as in the movies...a lot of jealousy, treachery. It’s all about money.” [61:38]

Mob, Then and Now:

• “Back in the day, there wasn’t anything that moved in the country that the mob didn’t get a piece of.” [63:14]
• Now, Italian Mafia in the US is “just another organized crime group.”
• The rise of the Russians and Albanians: “They all deferred to the Mafia. No more today.” [65:59]

Podcast and Other Projects

[67:24 – 69:43]

• Joe’s podcast: “Deep Cover, the Real Donnie Brasco,” returning for more seasons.
• Discusses a script/film about overcoming Tourette’s, written by Leo Rossi.
• Joe Pistone merch: “Joppa stonemerch.com.”

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On the dangers of undercover work:
  “Frankie puts a gun on the table...says, ‘If you don’t convince me you’re as good a thief as Jilly says, the only way you’re leaving is rolled up in that rug.’” – Joe Pistone [33:26]
• Reflecting on Mafia culture:
  “It’s all a grift. Sure it is.” – Joe Pistone [21:21]
• On mob loyalty:
  “Every guy I hung around with was a killer...had to make your bones.” – Joe Pistone [52:01, 52:08]
• On the decline of the mob:
  “They don’t control politicians like they did... Today, they’re just another criminal element.” – Joe Pistone [64:28]
• On Depp and the Donnie Brasco movie:
  “He [Depp] is a true gentleman... He came and spent hours with my wife when she was very sick.” – Joe Pistone [41:20]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:50 – Joe Pistone’s FBI origins, entering undercover work
• 06:43 – The origin of “Donnie Brasco”
• 08:33 – Operation: Infiltrate car theft ring
• 13:47 – How undercover agents handle getting arrested
• 16:39 – Early gambling houses, first Mafia infiltration
• 25:17 – Penetrating the Colombo family
• 33:26 – Near-death confrontation and surviving Mafia suspicion
• 37:33 – Donnie Brasco (film): Accuracy, Hollywood stories
• 42:20 – Bounty on Pistone’s head & aftermath of exposure
• 51:33 – Day-to-day undercover in the Bonannos, the emotional toll
• 52:08 – “Making your bones,” the reality of Mafia loyalty
• 56:37 – No regrets about bringing down mob associates
• 60:08 – The mob’s attitudes to vice crimes, drugs, prostitution
• 63:14 – Then vs. now: the Mafia’s diminished influence
• 67:24 – Pistone’s podcast & projects

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Memorable Moments

• The deadly seriousness of Mafia “sit-downs” and differentiating between associates and “made men.”
• Details on car thefts—how Pistone learned exactly how to hotwire and re-sell cars, aided by inside men at the DMV.
• The preparation needed for a convincing criminal “legend,” including taking jewelry classes at Zales for a jewel thief persona.
• Pistone clarifying Hollywood invention in his life story and standing up to filmmakers on scenes he found objectionable or inaccurate.

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Final Notes & Tone

Carolla and Pistone’s interaction is direct, at times darkly humorous, and grounded in respect for the danger and complexity of undercover work. Pistone’s storytelling is stoic, unembellished, and occasionally emotional when discussing loyalty, betrayal, and his family’s sacrifices. Carolla’s questions range from procedural curiosity to big-picture societal observations, always laced with his signature wit.

Listeners will come away with a fuller, more nuanced picture of not just Pistone’s story, but the gritty reality of organized crime in America and the personal cost of fighting it from within.

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For further details and weekly deep dives, check out Joe Pistone's podcast: "Deep Cover: The Real Donnie Brasco".

Transcript

[A]

Well, in this episode, Donnie Brasco himself, at least that was his deep cover name. Joe Pistone joins us and talks us all the way through crazy FBI undercover mafia world. Also, Mayhem's coming in. He's doing the news. And we'll do all that right after this.

[B]

It's time to celebrate Christmas with the Ace man.

[A]

Happy holy, holy Christmas.

[B]

And the best time of the year in Santa Barbara. Friday night at the Santa Barbara Comedy Club. Adam Corolla, live chess, no roasting in the open fire, Saturday, Dec. 6 in Corona, California.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At Dos Lagos Amphitheater.

[A]

Write it down.

[B]

Celebrate the season with Jay Moore.

[C]

Don't say I didn't warn you.

[A]

Thank you for that, jay.

[B]

And Thursday, December 18, a special Adam Carolla Show Christmas, it's wonderful. And oh, breaking news with Brad Williams. I'm Ted Koppel at the sagebrush cantina on December 18th.

[C]

And if we Daddy Christmas, my true.

[A]

Love came to me.

[C]

I partisan repair.

[A]

I'm free.

[B]

Join us for the brightest season of the year.

[A]

You are going to get aroused.

[B]

Get your tickets [e-mail].

[A]

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[B]

From Corolla One Studios in Glendale, California, this is the Adam Corolla Show. Adam's guest today, famed FBI undercover agent Joe Pistone. Plus the news with Jason Mayhem Miller. And now on on his drive in, he saw a homeless guy roasting his chestnuts over an open fire underneath the 101. Adam Carolla.

[A]

Yeah, get it on, got to get it on. The church are gonna mandate you get it on. Joe Bastone in studio. You may know him as Donnie Brasco. You remember that movie? We talk all about the deep cover world. It's got a podcast, Deep Cover, the Real Donnie Prasco out wherever you find finder podcast. Good to meet you.

[C]

My pleasure, Adam. My pleasure.

[A]

So let's walk all the way through it. You start with The FBI in 69.

[C]

69, yes, sir.

[A]

And the deep cover starts in 76. 75.

[C]

That was the case known as Donnie Brasco case. But I started working undercover, actually, in a the late 70s.

[A]

Yeah, how do they figure out who's going undercover and who's not going undercover?

[C]

Well, back in the day, remember when I came in, there was no real undercover program in the FBI. There was maybe 25, 30 of us throughout the country who did short term stuff, you know, maybe two days, three days. And it was basically street guys, guys that were, you know, had some street smarts that knew what they were doing.

[A]

Right. So they wanted guys that looked the part, knew the language, knew the streets, literally. And could fit in.

[C]

Exactly. Right.

[A]

And you were that guy.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

One of the guys.

[C]

I grew up in Patterson, New Jersey. You know, basically a street kid.

[A]

Right. And how'd you get to the FBI as a street kid?

[C]

Well, you know, I always knew I wanted to be a police officer. I always knew I wanted to be in law enforcement, even though I grew up in a, you know, pretty rough neighborhood and I couldn't get in. You know, I went to college, got out of college. And to get into the FBI, you needed three years of work experience and, you know, which I didn't have coming out of college.

[A]

Work experience. Law enforcement.

[C]

Well, either law enforcement or some kind of supervisory position with a. With a firm, which I didn't have. So I went into Naval intelligence. I spent time in Naval intelligence almost three years, and then that qualified me to apply to the FBI.

[A]

And you, what were you thinking you wanted to do when you got into the FBI?

[C]

Just be an FBI agent.

[A]

And the undercover part, Is that your idea? Is that a supervisor's idea? How does that work?

[C]

Well, back then in the day, how it worked was somebody may have had a case and had an informant that could get you into somebody that was selling stocks and bonds, stolen jewelry, whatever. So they'd come to you. Like I say, you get to know guys and how they operate and what they do, if they're good case agents, if they, you know, they're clearing cases and they come and ask you, hey, you know, you, would you like to do this job? And he said, sure, why not?

[A]

So where'd the name Donnie Brasco come from?

[C]

Well, you know, that was a cousin of mine that I grew up with who was kind of my protector growing up. He was a couple years older than me and he ended up being a minister. And I always admired him again because, you know, we grew up together. And like I said, he was kind of my protector as a young kid.

[A]

And his name is Donnie Brasco.

[C]

Yeah. Donald. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, isn't there a danger in using an actual guy's name because he may appear somewhere, that name.

[C]

Yeah, but, you know, I never knew that it was gonna. It was gonna explode. So, you know, I mean, I went to him, you know, and I say, hey, cuz, you know, I'm doing these undercover operations and I'd like to use your name, you know, because you need a. You need a fake id, you need a fake legend. And he says, sure, go ahead.

[A]

Uh huh. He's working as a minister?

[C]

Yeah, he was a minister. Yeah.

[A]

How far away is he?

[C]

Well, he passed on, unfortunately, a couple years ago from COVID but at the time he was in. I think he was in Glassboro, New Jersey. He had a big church down there.

[A]

And you're working where, New York?

[C]

No, at the time, I was actually in. Working out of. I think I had a case in Tampa, Florida. Jacksonville, Florida. One of the two.

[A]

Okay, so you get his name and you start the beginning of an infiltration. Now, I don't know, you were married and had kids at the time, right?

[C]

Yes, I was. Yeah.

[A]

So that seems difficult to be married and have kids and carry on this alter ego. Like, you can't return home every night, right?

[C]

Yeah, it was. Well, you know, in the beginning, these cases weren't long term. Right. My first long term one was a year and a half that I spent going up and down the east coast. I infiltrated a group of thieves that were stealing high end automobiles. And the way it worked is you came to me, right? Or you came to us and said, hey, you know, I want a Mercedes Benz. And I'd say, well, Adam, what color you want? You give us the color, what kind of interior you want, and then we go to the Mercedes Benz dealership and hook it for you.

[A]

And was the stuff staying domestic? Like it wasn't being shipped overseas?

[C]

No, that wasn't. That was for. That was for. It's funny because a lot of these people were businessmen that.

[A]

Well, it wasn't. I mean, I guess it was a different time, but it'd be hard to do that now to just go steal a car and then just keep it here. In the United States, like I know they'll do. They'll steal high end cars and they'll ship them to the Middle East.

[C]

They'll ship them to the middle east, but it'd be.

[A]

You couldn't really do that now. Right.

[C]

Well, the only way you can do it now is if you had somebody in dmv.

[A]

Mm.

[C]

That'll do the paperwork for you.

[A]

Well, we figured out recently through people at the DMV giving people truck driver's licenses that you can buy. People at the dmv?

[C]

Yes, you can buy. Look, it's all about money, Adam. You know that. And you can buy anybody. Not anybody, but, you know, most people, if you flash them the money, they'll go along with the program.

[A]

So you would go get a car from the lot, from the dealer lot.

[C]

Brand new.

[A]

Brand new. They pick out the color, pick out the interior. And would you have a universal key or would someone on the inside make you some keys? Or would you just use a slim Jim? Like, how would it work?

[C]

Well, to get in, back in the day, you could use a slim Jim. These guys taught me how to disarm the alarm systems. I mean, there's nothing that a thief won't know.

[A]

Yeah. Ignition, lock, the whole thing. So you pop the whole thing, use a slim Jim. I don't know. People know. Slapjack, jimmy slam.

[C]

Slapjack. The ignition.

[A]

Yeah. Slim jim is piece of sheet metal, inch and a half wide, three foot long. Slide it down along the window, inside the door on the outside, pop the latch, then go the inside. The ignition has a lock, column lock. You have to screw it into where the key was and then pull. It's like a dent puller. Pop the thing out. You pop the ignition out. Now you freed up the lock and you can put a screwdriver in there.

[C]

And turn the ignition, turn it on and.

[A]

Yeah, I know. Cause someone tried to steal my truck and I had to drive around with a screwdriver. I didn't have enough money.

[C]

It wasn't me.

[A]

It's someone you knew for sure. Yeah. This is a 84 Nissan mini pickup truck. Not. Not the high end Mercedes. So once you got it off the lot, then what would you do with it delivered?

[C]

While we take it to the. We take it to our drop, which was a garage. Right. We change out the vin.

[A]

The vin. Right.

[C]

And we. We had a. We had somebody in a dmv, I'm not going to mention what state. And we would register their car in that state. And then we deliver to the customer.

[A]

And these are Just business guys going, what year is this about?

[C]

That was in 1970. 71, I think.

[A]

So as a business guy going, look, this Mercedes gonna send me back 20 grand, but I'll pay 15 and just do it this way.

[C]

That's right. Cash.

[A]

Cash money, basically. That's the business.

[C]

That was the business.

[A]

Was it half off?

[C]

Well, it all depended on how good the customer was. You know, if they ordered one, maybe they order, you know, another one too.

[A]

But it was basically, I don't know, retail, 71. I don't know, 16 grand or 13 grand or whatever. They're going to save a few grand.

[C]

Oh, yeah. You know, we might have sold a brand new Mercedes for like 10 grand.

[A]

But what was a brand new Mercedes in 71? Now we gotta look it up. Well, you wouldn't even know because you didn't check. So when you're undercover, you have to engage in a lot of illegal behavior because otherwise you're gonna get made, Right?

[C]

Exactly. Yeah.

[A]

So if you're undercover and you're stealing a Mercedes, let's see, 11, 3 to 15, 9. All right, so basically 11 to 16. Yeah, I started 20 and I brought it down because I thought that'd be a little bit too much. Just over 12. Yeah. Okay, so if cops had walked up on you while you were stealing a Mercedes, do you tell them your FBI?

[C]

No, no. You never give it up. You go to jail. You take that, you take the. Take the bus and go to jail.

[A]

You would never go. I mean, never give it up.

[C]

No. And I'll tell you a story. What happened. I was stealing a car in Polk County, Florida, and the customer was in Miami. So we hooked the car up about 3 o' clock in the morning, and I'm driving it to Miami. I get stopped now I had a, I had a 9 millimeter in my back. And so the cops, there's no tags on the car or anything. So he actually was a Florida state trooper. So he says, you got no tags in this car. I says, I know. I said, I work for the dealership. I'm delivering it to Miami. I have to get it there in the morning. So he said, you mind if I look through the car? I says, no. So he, you know, it's brand spanking new car. So I popped the trunk. He looks through and everything. And in the meantime, I'm making sure he can't see the bulge, you know, in my back.

[A]

Nine millimeter.

[C]

Nine millimeter. And so he says, okay. He says, where are you delivering it? So I told him what dealership In Miami, where I was delivering, he said, okay, that was the last time I ever carried a gun undercover. Because I figured, what am I going to do? He's going to bust. If I get caught, you know, he's going to bust me for the gun.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And it's a whole lot of magilla. So I never carried a gun other than that working undercover.

[A]

So there is no talk into a supervisor. Once they bring you into the precinct, you have to stay undercover. And I guess the guys you're trying to fool, you get more street cred if you just got arrested. Right?

[C]

Yeah, you get arrested and then, you know, you get a phone call. So what you do, you have a, you have a contact agent that has a, you know, that has an unlisted number or hello, we call it a hello number. And you would call him whenever they gave you your, your phone call. And you, you make like he's your, he's your attorney. And then they'll send an attorney down to bail you out.

[A]

The FBI.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[A]

But, but you never tell whoever's arresting you that.

[C]

No, no, because.

[A]

Why?

[C]

Well, because you don't know if there's any leaks. You're always worried about a leak and.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Unfortunately, there's leaks everywhere.

[A]

So stealing cars, what else?

[C]

Well, from stealing cars, I worked undercover in gambling houses, infiltrating gambling houses. But after that one is when I went back to, went to New York. And that's when the six year undercover operation started against the Mafia.

[A]

How's a gambling house work? You say gambling's illegal in this state, but we'll have a place where guys can play poker and do whatever.

[C]

Yeah, well, basically they were like casinos. They had, you know, poker tables, they had crap tables, they had roulette wheels. And you know, it's amazing that gambling is legal in most states, but people still gamble with a bookie.

[A]

Were these places like underground? Hidden, like, you know, warehouses? Just warehouses?

[C]

Just warehouses.

[A]

And they could stay up in business for a while?

[C]

Sure, yeah. And what they do, they'd stay in a place for a couple months and then move to another one.

[A]

So the, the Donnie Brasco stuff, the story that's chronicled in the movie, that stuff starts after this?

[C]

Yeah, that's. That started after the, the car operation.

[A]

And that's. But is the car operation with the mafia or for the mafia, or is that a separate thing?

[C]

That's a separate one, yeah.

[A]

So the mafia stuff starts after this?

[C]

Yes, sir. Yeah.

[A]

And that's back in New York?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And is that assignment given to you.

[C]

I was asked if I wanted to do it. I get back to New York, and I was actually assigned to a truck. Truck hijacking squad in New York. And back in the day, they were. They were probably in. All the truck hijackings were controlled by the mafia. If they didn't hijack them, the loads went to them. And they were high, high value loads. Pharmaceuticals, coffee, you know, we're talking about tractor trailers, Right. You can imagine how much each load was worth, right?

[A]

So like, sort of illustrated in goodfellas, the trucker were sort of compelled to go along with it. I mean, they'd get the silver or get the lead, right?

[C]

Like, yeah, I mean, a lot of times. A lot of times the driver was in on it, you know, at the time. We'd call it a give up. Or if the driver wasn't in on it, they would ask him for his license, you know, and take all his information down. And, you know, you give him the correct information and who hijacked you. You know, don't forget, we got your name, we got your address, we know where you live.

[A]

Right?

[C]

So, you know, they'd say, well, we got hijacked by. By blacks, right. Got hijacked by Puerto Ricans, whatever, right? Not really.

[A]

Right, right.

[C]

A white guy.

[A]

Yeah. Because they're not rich, the truckers. And they got a family. And what do they care? It's not their stuff. It's in the back of the truck anyway. So they're jacking all those trucks and they're taking them somewhere and then they have to fence the stuff, right?

[C]

Yeah, well, basically, they're already fenced out. They take it to what they call a drop and, you know, it's a big warehouse and then whatever it was. And a lot of. A lot of the. The food, commodities. Food went to major grocery stores.

[A]

Like coffee and stuff like that.

[C]

Yeah, coffee shrimp went to major grocery stores.

[A]

Chains.

[C]

Chains, yeah.

[A]

Really? So they be involved with this?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, maybe not the owner, but the guy, you know, the manager of the store.

[A]

Right. So, I mean, it's kind of like, in a weird way, you think about Mexico or you think about the Somalis running their grift in Minnesota, it's like, I don't know, are these people criminals or are they just kind of in on discounted stuff?

[C]

Like they're criminals. They're criminals.

[A]

All right, well, who's this person? I talk to these people, right? I go, women will do this all the time. I go, I'm gonna buy this dress. I go, you wear it one time. They go, no, I'll just buy it, I'll wear it, then I'll return it. I go, well, that's not right. I go, who cares? You know? Now look, that ain't Al Capone, but it shows. People are willing to. To be flexible. Yeah, they'll do things to save a few bucks.

[C]

Exactly. But somebody.

[A]

I mean, how much different are the guys buying the shrimp at the Albertsons than the woman who just buys the dress on Amazon, wears it to the event, and then returns it the next day? It's all a grift, right?

[C]

It's all a grift. Sure it is. Sure.

[A]

So people are griftable.

[C]

Very.

[A]

They have a high potential for grift. And that's why offering stuff doesn't work.

[C]

Exactly. Well, you know, it's funny because the suit that I wore when I reported to the FBI was off the back of a truck.

[A]

Really? When you reported Dayton 69?

[C]

Yeah, because remember, I told you the neighborhood I grew up in was, you know, mafia, Right? Not dominated, but infiltrated. And, you know, you. You know, when you went to. You went to this. This particular warehouse or store that all this stuff was off the back of the truck. And like, I knew you, you did it. You're a guy from the neighborhood, right? But, you know, that's. That's the way it was when you grew up in those type environments.

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[A]

So you come to New York and now it's time to really get into the mob stuff. And what's the crime family you're infiltrating?

[C]

Well, in the beginning we weren't targeting one particular family. I was trying to infiltrate the fences that were dealing with the mob families. But I was lucky enough and fortunate enough that the first family that I actually got into was the Colombo family. I got into the Colombo family and I was with them for maybe three, four, four and a half months. And then I got into beef with two guys that were with this particular crew.

[A]

How do you get into the Colombo family?

[C]

Well, it's, you know, it's a whole backstory on meeting a bartender that was part of the Lucchese crime family who I got friendly with by going to the restaurant and bar that he was a bartender at. And then him once, once I got in comfortable, he felt comfortable with, with me taking me to one of the all night games, gambling games. And I met a guy there that was a Colombo guy and, and there were guys there, mob guys from all the families were there. So after, after a while and you know, my legend was a jewel thief. You're a legend was a jewel thief. Because you have to have a legend. You know, you got to be some kind of.

[A]

Is a legend a story, a past?

[C]

It's your. It's whatever your criminal profession is.

[A]

Huh?

[C]

Yeah. So.

[A]

But you weren't a jewel thief. You just put it out that you're a jewel thief.

[C]

I just put it out. But whatever you say your legend is, you have to know it.

[A]

You have to know the subject.

[C]

Right. So I went to school. I went to Zales. You went to Zales, Learned about diamonds and precious gems.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Okay. So I could discuss.

[A]

Are you walking into a Zales and talking to people about it?

[C]

No, I went to their actual. They had classes.

[A]

Zales had a school.

[C]

They had a. Classes.

[A]

Did not know that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. This was back in the day.

[A]

Interesting.

[C]

Yeah. And then I. You know, and if you're a jewel thief, what else? You have to know?

[A]

Prices, I guess.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Settings, I guess. And where to fence stuff.

[C]

And you got to know how to get in places, right? So you got to know how to pick locks.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You got to know alarms, and you got to know safes. Right? So I learned all of that.

[A]

How do you learn how to pick a safe?

[C]

From guys in the FBI, tech guys.

[A]

And they can.

[C]

They can get in anything, really. Yeah.

[A]

They use a stethoscope.

[C]

Well, no, you. That's a lot of television and stuff. But basically what I learned was the different types. And, you know, you can blow this one or you can drill this one, and alarm systems.

[A]

Right. But. Right. You can't pass yourself off as this person without knowing anything about this subject.

[C]

That's exactly right.

[A]

Right. So you became an expert in that. That was your story. And now you're hobnobbing with these guys, and they sort of trust you because you seem authentic, and you have some, you know, field of expertise. And then now what?

[C]

Well, after.

[A]

And what was the beef with the guys in Colombo?

[C]

Well, to back it up, how I got into the bartender, Right. It's a long story, but you have to know your enemy. You've read the Art of War, right? Sun Tzu. But you got to know your enemy, right? So my enemy at the time was the Mafia or. Because we knew that they were individuals. So you and I. Like I said, I knew about him growing up, but you know, you know how the. How the. The structure is. Do they have any. Any rules and regulations and the Mafia does. They have a lot of rules. One of them at the time was no facial hair. Right. You got to dress nice. Well, I had a bushy Mustache at.

[A]

The time, no facial hair. Like George Steinbrenner at the time.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Wow. Yeah, Interesting.

[C]

They wanted you to. They wanted you to dress neat. You know, you don't have to be in the. You don't have to be. And if you're not a made guy, you know what a made guy, somebody that's been for your audience, somebody that's been inducted into a particular Mafia family, that's a maiden guy.

[A]

If.

[C]

If I'm a. Not. If I'm not a made guy, if I'm just an associate and I get into an argument with a maid guy, I can't embarrass him in front of people. Right, Right. That's one. That's a rule.

[A]

What is it? How long does it take to get made?

[C]

It all depends. It all depends.

[A]

Yeah, I guess there's no set number. But what I mean is, like, if you're really into this and you're Italian, I don't know if you need to be Italian to get made or not. And maybe that is a good fella's.

[C]

Thing, you have to be Italian.

[A]

But let's just say you're paisan and you're really focused and you follow all the rules. Is it 10 years?

[C]

Well, I'll take me, for example, right? I got in with the. I was with the Bonannos for maybe five, five and a half years, and I was proposed for membership to be made. To be made.

[A]

All right?

[C]

Now, I know guys that were around for 10, 15 years before they got made. It all depends.

[A]

It depends.

[C]

It all depends. It depends on who you're with, who your captain is. If you were a big drinker, they didn't want you, they'd hold off, you know, so there was no set time. But like I said, in five and a half years, I was proposed for a membership in the building.

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean, I think like any job, they see you're good at what you do, and you gotta be an earner.

[C]

You gotta be an earner. Yeah.

[A]

So what was the beef with the guys from the Colombos?

[C]

Well, what happened was, is that once I was introduced to this guy Jilly, who was a Colombo, you know, he was from Brooklyn. He invited me out and hang out with him and his. With his crew, and I did. And they were an active crew. They were a hijacking crew, right? So I was with them, like I say, for maybe four months or something. Four and a half months. And I get to the club one day and there's two guys there that I didn't Know, and I'm introduced to them, and they had just gone out of jail. One of them is a maid guy, and one was a maid guy. One was an associate, like me. I was an associate at the time, right? So they had some scores lined up, hijacking. Well, these were actually burglaries. So we cased one joint. And I tell them I can't. I don't know, that alarm system. I can't bypass that alarm system.

[A]

Is it a jewelry store?

[C]

No, it was a warehouse, warehouse, clothing warehouse, right?

[A]

And.

[C]

Okay, they have another one lined up, and it was a. A safe job. And I tell them I can't. You know, you got to blow that safe, I said, and, you know, make too much noise, and you can't.

[A]

There you're saying you can't pick the lock. You got to blow off the door.

[C]

You got to blow it, right? So now that's two of their scores that I turned down, because I don't. Number one, I'm. You know, I'm not going to help. Help these guys rob something, right? Like that. So a couple days go by. I come to the. I come to the club one day, and. And Jilly says, donnie, let's take a walk and talk. So we go outside, and we're walking. He says, hey. He said, you know, Patsy and Frankie kind of pissed off that I told him what a good thief you were, but you said you couldn't do the alarm. You couldn't. You didn't want to blow the safe. And they're mad. So Frankie wants to sit down. Frankie was the main guy, I think. Yeah, Frankie was the main guy. So that's his right. Cause he's a made guy. So we go in. We go into the club. We go in the back room. They lock the door. Frankie puts a gun on the table. And he says. Donnie says, if you don't convince me that you're as good a thief as. And you're a good guy as Jilly says you are, the only way you're going out of here is rolled up in that rug. It's the only way you're leaving this room. So back and forth. So, you know, when you're in this type of situation, you always want to be on the offense. I don't want to be on the defense. So every time he'd ask me a question, I'd throw it back at him. Like, tell us who you thieved with down in Miami. I'm not telling you who I stole stuff with. I'm not giving up any names. Of anybody. So this goes on for like four and a half hours maybe.

[A]

That's a long time.

[C]

Yeah. Well, so then finally, you know, finally Jilly says, that's it, it's over. You know, Donnie's been with us all this time. Nothing's. You know, he's always been good. Everything's been good. So now I got a problem because these guys called me out. And in these type situations, you can't lose your respect. If you lose your respect, you're done. You're done, right? So the only thing they know now is a physical confrontation. In other words, I can't go up to them and say, hey, let's shake hands. I know you guys have a problem, you know, but let's shake hands. Because then in their mind is, why isn't Donnie pissed off, right? So as we get up to go out, I hit Patsy because he's not the main guy, huh? All right, I lay him out. Now Frankie's Frankie just pounding on me. But I can't do anything because he's a made guy. I can't hit him, otherwise I'm dead, right? Even though, you know.

[F]

So.

[C]

I'm beating on Patsy and Frankie's beating on me. So then finally they break it up. But now I know I can't hang around these guys anymore because it'll come to a bad situation. So I grabbed Jill. I said, jilly. I said, let's take a walk and talk. And I tell him, I said, jilly. I said, you know, I can't come out here anymore. I says, I appreciate, you know, everything, but this is not going to come to a good end. And he understands. He understands. So I. At these games, I met another guy by the name of Tony Mirror, who was a Bonanno guy. So I started hanging out with him. Once I went to the game, I sided up to Mirror and start hanging out down a little Lily with Mirror, who started introducing me to Bonanno's.

[A]

And that's when you get into that gang?

[C]

Yeah, that's when I get in with the Bonannos. Yeah.

[A]

And what do you start on when you get in with them? Where's the movie pick up, by the way? Where's it start?

[C]

It picks up when I meet Margero, when I meet Lefty.

[A]

And how accurate's the movie and how cool is it to have Johnny Depp play?

[C]

Well, your first question, the movie was like 85% on the money. And I'll tell you what wasn't on the money. And I'd like to get this out to everybody is that there's a scene in the movie where I slapped my wife. Well, that was. That was Hollywood, right? I don't have to tell you about Hollywood. That was not. That was not in the original script. And I was very surprised on the day when they were rehearsing that and that I had kind of a beef with the director over that. The other scene that wasn't legit was I didn't saw that guy's leg off with a hacksaw. When they hit the three guys in the basement, I was told that they cut him up with a chainsaw because he was so big. And I never went to a psychiatrist. Me and my wife never went to see a psychiatrist.

[A]

There's a scene that I was talking to my producer about. I think it's with Michael Madsen. Just passed.

[C]

Great guy.

[A]

Mike went to his wake at Quentin Tarantino's theater. I love that guy too. I really like that guy.

[C]

Got along very well with Michael and.

[A]

And this was a very interesting scene from the airport. I just thought, well, let's show it and we can ask you about it. Let's see. We'll figure this out. Were you on set every day?

[C]

Yes, I was. And that was at the request of Johnny Depp?

[A]

Yeah, this is Bob at Johnny Depp's request.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's interesting. He just wanted to make sure he was getting it right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey, Donnie.

[A]

Yeah? Stick around.

[C]

I'm going to get a paper.

[A]

All right.

[C]

Jesus, Joe. That's home and U.S. attorney. This is Hollywood. The guy on the right. No, this isn't, this isn't.

[A]

All right.

[C]

Why don't you just shut the up and I'll take care.

[A]

Of.

[C]

Hey, anything goes wrong down there, you.

[B]

Have the people call your people in New York.

[C]

You understand? Yeah, I don't want to come down here and iron anything, Joe. Really aggravated you. Got your plane tickets, Sonny, go. Pissed off in the left.

[A]

Go. Remember me? Southern District, kind of. What? What are you doing? Grab my. The fuck?

[C]

Yeah, that's legit.

[A]

All right. So you got a guy, you're at the airport, he knows you as Joe. Who comes. Who was that who came up to you?

[C]

It was an attorney that I knew.

[A]

Uh huh. And he's calling you the wrong name. I mean it's the right name, but it's the wrong name. And it had to be a constant thing, right, of going out and having thinking you're gonna run into people that you went to high school with or something like that.

[C]

Yeah, but that's, you know, that's the. That's, you know, that's what you deal with when you're working undercover. You know, you never know who you're going to run into.

[A]

So Johnny Depp was like, you should be here for all the shooting.

[C]

Yeah, I love that guy. Yeah. Really, Adam, he's the nicest. Nicest guy you'll ever meet. You know him?

[A]

I don't know him.

[C]

I tell you what he is. He is a true gentleman. And we're friends to the day to right now. In fact, I had. He came and visited us in January in New Jersey.

[A]

Really?

[C]

From Spain. And he came for two days. We had a big dinner and my wife was very, very sick. And he came. She was living. We were living at my daughter's house because of how sick she was. And he came and spent five, four and a half, five hours with her.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And just sat on the couch with her. I mean, he is. He's one in a million, man. When you know him, he's one in a million.

[A]

Are you in the witness protection program now?

[C]

No, I never was.

[A]

Oh, you never were?

[C]

No.

[A]

Oh, somebody said you were.

[C]

No.

[A]

But there was a bounty on you, right?

[C]

Yeah, 500,000. Yeah, but, you know, nobody's getting up every day now, you know, coming looking for me, number one.

[A]

But when was the 500,000 put on? Because that's a lot.

[C]

When it. When it came out who I was, you know, before.

[A]

What year was that?

[C]

Trials. That was an 82.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you know, 500,000 bucks. In 82. In 82, you could buy a nice single family home here in the San Fernando Valley for, you know, 100, 125 grand back in 82. And now that house is, you know, 2.3 million bucks. But the point is 500,000, you know, you could buy a new Mustang in 82 for 6,500 bucks or something. So 500K is 2 million bucks. But I mean, in 1982, gas was 79 cents a gallon out here. So that's a big chunk of change. I guess you should be flattered by it, right?

[C]

Yeah, I was. I mean, you know, it didn't sit too well with my family, but.

[A]

I.

[C]

Don'T think anybody, you know, number one, nobody's gonna. Nobody in a mob today is gonna pay out any money.

[A]

No, no one's paying out anymore, you know?

[C]

No.

[A]

So how'd you find out about the 500?

[C]

From informants.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[C]

Yeah, informants. They went. They went to the bureau and said, hey, you know, the commission's put out a $500,000 bounty on, on the agent.

[A]

Yeah, is so it was interesting. So Depp, was there anyone else who was going to play you in the Donnie Brasco?

[C]

There, there were. Well, you think of every A list actor at the time was in the running and, and wanted, you know, and you know, look, that's, that's another story, a long story actually. We had, when I say we, I'm talking about Barry Levinson who, who, who I signed with, he was going to direct it. And tristar they had always mentioned, but they thought he might be a little too young, you know, and too good looking.

[A]

Johnny Depp.

[C]

Johnny Depp, yeah.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And Al Pacino actually went out out, signed on to play left, to play lefty. He, he mentioned Johnny, he said, you know, you oughta send this script to Johnny Depp. He said, he said he's a hell of an actor. I, you know, he said. And so they didn't, once he read it, the rest was history.

[A]

So now you infiltrate this new family and what kind of jobs are you guys doing?

[C]

Gambling. A lot of gambling. A lot of gambling operations. Had big gambling operations, had some fencing going on, you know, I mean these guys weren't out actually hijacking the trucks, but dealing and stolen commodities. Like I say, big gambling, some drug dealing.

[A]

What drugs was it back then?

[C]

Back then it was cocaine and pills. Yeah.

[A]

What were their fence and stuff? Like what was an item, A big item for them in the fencing department.

[C]

They died in was jewelry. Jewelry, TV sets.

[A]

TV sets, that's right. Yeah. People used to steal TV sets like crazy, man. Car stereos, TV sets, all electronics.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And in jewelry, would they have to pop the diamonds out of the setting or would they just sell them as they were?

[C]

They were mostly all loose. Loose diamonds? Yeah. They pop them out? Yeah. If it was a setting, yeah, everything.

[A]

Was popped and then this stuff would just go back. It's sort of like the shrimp to the supermarket. Just go back to the diamond. The guys who were selling this stuff.

[C]

Yes, they'd sell it back to them or they, you know, they'd just sell it on the street, you know, sell it to somebody. Like sell it to, you know, a guy that's a hustler hustling on the street.

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[A]

And so it's some drugs, mostly. Gambling, fencing, some stuff.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How many guys are you responsible for bringing in, you know, going to trial or indicted?

[C]

All told, I. I testified in 17 trials. And all told, we convicted 247 guys.

[A]

And so you had to sit there and look across at guys who thought of. Thought your name was Donnie Brasco, right?

[C]

Exactly. Yeah.

[A]

Feels uncomfortable. Must have been some of the guys you liked, right? I mean, you had a few beers with and a laugh, right?

[C]

Yeah. Look, you don't spend you Know, once I got into the Bonanno's, I mean, it was, it's a seven day a week job. Once you infiltrate, it's seven days a week. I mean, I'm not living at home. I'm living in, you know, I got an apartment in New York. I got an apartment in, in Florida where we had a nightclub. I'm not going home. My family's living across country. They're not, you know, so it's just like I say, it's 24 7, it's holidays. Because my, my, my legend, I was an orphan.

[A]

Uh huh.

[C]

So I had no family, I was never married. I had, you know, nobody that I knew of. So I'm spending Christmas Eve with these guys. Christmas, New Year's Eve, holidays. Yeah.

[A]

So they become family.

[C]

Yeah. And look, like I said, you don't spend 15 hours a day, seven days a week with guys and not find something in common that you can talk about. You know, some guys, you can't. Some guys are just. Some guys are just stone cold.

[A]

Right?

[C]

And you have to remember, every guy I hung around with was it was, it was a killer.

[A]

They're all killers.

[C]

They had, yeah, they had hit guys.

[A]

You know, Every one of them.

[C]

Every one of them, yeah.

[A]

Why'd they have so many hit guys?

[C]

Because during the day, in order to become a member of the mob, the Mafia, you had to, you had to make your bones.

[A]

You had to hit somebody from another group. Didn't matter.

[C]

Could be your best friend.

[A]

So you weren't gonna be made unless you had a notch on your holster.

[C]

Right? But you have to remember too, is that there's a lot of lying and treachery. So if you're close to your captain, right, he can lie for you. He said, yeah, I know he was in on a hit. I mean, there are guys that made their sons or made their nephews or made their cousins and lied that they had been in on a hit. But the rule was you had it.

[A]

You had to have to be made. Because they want to make sure you're just sort of pot committed like you couldn't. Where are you going? You killed somebody. Who you gonna talk to?

[C]

Right, right, right.

[A]

So it's like. And was there any of that with you? Did they want you to commit a hit?

[C]

Yeah. I had been given a contract by Sonny Black to kill somebody. Yeah.

[A]

What's a contract? Is it just a verbal.

[C]

Yeah, it's. You saw the scene where they killed those three guys, right? Okay. That happened because there was a war, a rift within the Bonanno family. Okay. And those three captains were against the side I was with. I was with Sonny Black's side. Okay? So one guy, four guys were supposed to show up. One guy didn't show up. So I got the contract. Sonny Black gave me the contract to kill a guy that didn't show up. Right.

[A]

And it's just. They just tell you.

[C]

Yeah, he called me in and he said, bruno didn't show. He said, I'm giving you the contract. You got the contract on Bruno.

[A]

And so how does that work? Do they tell you anything else, like, I don't know, here's where the guy lives, or, don't do it on this day or do it that way?

[C]

Well, they thought he had gone to Florida, to Miami. So he sent me to Miami. Go to Miami because he's a Koch, he's on coke, and we know he has contacts in Miami. So they sent me to Miami. And the deal was, if I found the guy, I'd tell the FBI and they'd snatch him, and we'd make it look like a hit. Or if they found him, you know, we'd just do the reverse. We never found them, but I was responsible. In other words, I'm responsible for him getting killed. But I could say, hey, Adam.

[F]

You.

[C]

Got to kill him.

[A]

Huh?

[C]

But it's my. If you don't, it's my responsibility.

[A]

Right, but you don't have to do it yourself.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. And so if you did find him, you'd get the FBI to grab him.

[C]

Yeah. And we'd stage a hit.

[A]

You'd stage it.

[C]

Right.

[A]

How would that work?

[C]

Well, we'd grab them. We. Of course, you know, they'd incarcerate them, stash them away somewhere. We'd get a body. A look alike.

[A]

Where do you get a body?

[C]

It could be. No, be a live person.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[C]

You know, when I say a body, be a live person. That's the same height, weight, and make them up. You know, get a good makeup.

[A]

Oh, you mean like take a picture of it? Yeah, and then send it to the. Yeah, or use it. Yeah, because they wanted verification.

[C]

Yeah. And, you know, put it on the news.

[A]

Right. Interesting. And so what did your captain say when you told him I couldn't find the guy?

[C]

Nothing. Just keep looking, you know, I mean, he didn't give me a timetable. Just keep looking.

[A]

Right. But thankfully, you never found them.

[C]

Yeah, I've never found them. I mean, we arrested him later, but not, you know, actually got arrested, I think during the trials or something. Yeah.

[A]

Mm. So you had to get up there and you had to testify against these guys you spent a lot of time with, had some good times with. Were there any guys who you felt bad for where you just kind of were like, this guy got sucked into this, he didn't really have a chance.

[C]

I never felt bad for anybody, Adam. The only thing. Look, they killed Sonny Black, right? They killed Tony Mirra. Jilly got shot. Lefty was on his way to get. To get hit, and the FBI had picked it up on a wiretap, so they snatched him off the street and saved his life. Now, I was close with Sonny Black. Sonny Black was the kind of guy he was. He was a killer, you know, but we could sit here and talk about whatever, you know what I mean? Where there were guys where you couldn't talk about anything but illegal activities or the mafia with. That's your only conversation not with Sonny. I had, and I had some private conversations or I had some conversation with Sonny about family that, you know, that I don't feel comfortable in revealing.

[A]

Did anyone ever give you the, you know, who got closest to knowing you were undercover? Did they?

[C]

Nobody.

[A]

They never. Was there ever instance, you know, where they went, like, hey, man, I know you're with the FBI. Just to see what you'd say.

[C]

No.

[A]

They never even had an inkling?

[C]

No.

[A]

And so how long now you got a wife and kids at this point, right?

[C]

Correct.

[A]

How do you figure out how to maintain that relationship?

[C]

Well, what I would tell them was I tell them I had a girlfriend in California and I'm gonna fly to California for like, say for a weekend and see my girlfriend. So I would fly there and then I'd fly to the state that they lived in.

[A]

Oh, you go to California first?

[C]

Yeah, well, yeah, because, you know, the plane ticket and the whole McGill, it's too traceable. Yeah, right. Yeah. And then I'd jump on another flight under a different name.

[A]

Would you do it under Joe?

[C]

No, I do it under another ID that the FBI I had gotten from the FBI.

[A]

You never want to get your name on any piece of paper?

[C]

No.

[A]

Right. So you would leave a paper trail. So you had to go to California first.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[A]

And then you.

[C]

And then I check and you always had to check in.

[A]

Uh huh.

[C]

You know, so I would call from California, you know, and say, hey, I'm here. And I had a number out there that if they were looking for me, they could call and somebody would answer the phone and say, well, hold on a minute, he's out now, he'll call you back.

[A]

So you had to check in all the time, huh?

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah, kind of.

[A]

You know. They couldn't just give you a couple days off, huh? You had to check in?

[C]

No.

[A]

It's interesting. And who'd you call?

[C]

I would call Lefty or Sonny. Huh? Yeah.

[A]

Back on the landline days, Right?

[C]

Back in the landline days, yeah.

[A]

And they just go, all right, California.

[C]

Yeah, I'm here, you know, and if you need me, you know, you can get me at this number. Yeah.

[A]

And so it was drugs, it was gambling. Yeah, it was. Any prostitution in there?

[C]

No, no, These guys, the guys I was with, never, never dealt with.

[A]

Did they look down on it?

[C]

Yeah, my guys did. My guys did. Yeah. Now what they had was, was back in the day, they had strip clubs, right. You know, but they, but they themselves were not involved in. My guys, When I say my guys, Sonny Black's crew that I was with were not involved in. In prostitution out of the clubs.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know, but they, they, you know, they were called titty bars, I guess is what you call them back in.

[A]

The day was when you see a movie like Goodfellas, do you go, that seems pretty accurate.

[C]

Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

[A]

What do you think in the accuracy? Donnie Brasco or Goodfellas?

[C]

Donnie Brasco.

[A]

More accurate.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Why?

[C]

Because it showed more of the day to day life. These guys weren't always out in suits and ties and. I mean, we went to clubs and stuff, but the mob is like really a step down, you know? You know what I'm saying? No, like you see in the movies, you know, they got palatial offices.

[A]

Right, right.

[C]

You know, it's a.

[A]

It's not that glamorous.

[C]

It's not that glamorous. It's not that glamorous. You know, what is true is, is the treachery. You know, there's a lot of jealousy. There's a lot of treachery. And the jealousy is a. I'm. You're my captain. I'm closer to you than this guy is now. He's, he's, he's jealous of that.

[A]

Right?

[C]

I'm making more money than he is. He's jealous of that. Because the cap. Look, it's all about money. The captain, you know, is, is drawn to me because I'm, you know, everybody has to kick up.

[A]

Yeah. Earner.

[C]

You have to be an earner. Did.

[A]

So is it. What shape is the mob in now, if at all? And what was it when you were there? Meaning? Let's just say I took a business, you know, What I mean, I said Sears. I go, well, when I was a kid, man, Sears. There were Sears everywhere. There was 10 right in my, you know, 10 mile radius. You know, they go, what about Sears? Now? They go, it's not really. It's not really a thing anymore. Used to be the catalog. We used to go there Christmas shopping and was a big part, and it's gone, you know, but there's still a couple out there, you know, you could find or whatever. Maybe it's trying to make a comeback, but it's not the Sears that I remember when I was a kid. Is it kind of that way with the mobile?

[C]

Yes, it is. Back in the day, there wasn't anything that moved in the country that the mob didn't get a piece of.

[A]

Any commerce?

[C]

Any commerce. They didn't move, right. They didn't get a piece of.

[A]

We talk in the 50s, the 60s.

[C]

The 40s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, into the mid-80s, until we start knocking the hell out of them, okay? Back in the day, they owned politicians, okay? They corrupted law enforcement, okay? They corrupted judges, okay? Today we're talking about the Italian mafia. In the United States, they're just another organized crime group. Why? We took the unions away from them. They don't control Teamsters like they did, right? And you know, the Teamsters controlled everything that moved in the country, right? They don't control politicians like they did. They don't control law enforcement like they did, and they don't control judges the way they did. They're just another criminal element of the now.

[A]

You know, it's a lot like Scientology. They used to have a lot of power, and now not as much. But they're still around.

[C]

They're still around, yeah. Now you. Will you ever do. Will you ever wipe him out? No, you'll never. You know, because it's human nature. People don't want to work. People want to be thieves. You notice all the big busts and gambling, although gambling's legal, right? All over the place, people still bet with bookies. Why?

[A]

I don't know. Why.

[C]

Why? Number one, you don't want to be on paper, right? You go to a casino, you win, you're on paper, you win big, you're paying government taxes, right? You bet with your bookie, there's no paper. It's between you and your bookie. And if you win, you're not paying taxes, right? You're under the radar now.

[A]

It's kind of like they legalize marijuana and people still buy the stuff. That's not the government. Certified, approved, whatever. It's just sort of like being off the books.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

And also there's money to be saved, so it's sort of on the way out now. Were the other Venezuelan drug cartels and stuff like that, were there other groups, international groups, trying to kind of infiltrate or take some of your turf or any of that back when you were at it?

[C]

Yeah, back in the day. The Russians.

[A]

The Russians, right.

[C]

The Albanians, Okay. They all deferred to the mafia. No more today. No more today.

[A]

So back then they knew their place, right?

[C]

Now, the Albanians and the Russians, they do their thing and they don't worry about the American Mafia at all.

[A]

Interesting. So, I mean, there was a pecking order, there was respect, there was stuff you did, you know, stuff like no facial hair, dress nicely, stuff like that.

[C]

In fact, they told me I had to shave my mustache once I got accepted into the Bonanno's. One of the things they said, nani, you got to shave your mustache.

[A]

It's so interesting. I mean, like I said, George Steinbrenner, owner of the Yankees, I think, famously had a no facial hair thing for, I don't know, X amount of years last year.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I don't know when he stopped or when it stopped.

[C]

I think it was last year.

[A]

And I don't know, maybe the Mob took a page out of Steinbrenner's playbook. Or maybe Steinbrenner took a page out of the Mob's. I don't know who thought of it first, but it's interesting. All right, so the podcast is called Deep Cover, the Real Donnie Brasco. It's available wherever you find. And you're telling stories and interviewing people.

[C]

Yeah, we. I think we're going to start up the next season in January. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And we're doing it once a week.

[C]

Yeah, once a week.

[A]

Yeah, once a week. Joe, thanks for coming in and come back because I'm sure there's a whole. Part two. Go ahead.

[C]

Can I mention something to you? Yeah. My good friend Leo Rossi, you know Leo, the actor, he's also a writer. He wrote a script about a gentleman named Tony Farrancola who has Tourette's syndrome. And I guess Tony found out about it when he was 12, 13, 14, and the script is how he progressed through manhood and overcame this and actually became a. Almost a rocket scientist. I mean, his degree in engineering and everything. So Leo wrote this script about it. It's a real. It's a good feel, a good feel movie. And that's what we're trying to get some traction on now.

[A]

Can you get Johnny Depp to star in it?

[C]

Well, you know, I haven't talked to Johnny about it yet, but I'd like to, I'd like to get him the script and see if he'll, he'll, you know, make any suggestions. But we're shopping it around now.

[A]

I know, I'll tell you off the air, but I know a guy read that script who could do something with it, who likes this kind of stuff.

[C]

It's a terrific script. And it's a. And it shows you how a gentleman can overcome, you know, what Tourette's is, right? I mean, you know what it is? Yeah. Over can overcome that and become very, very successful businessman. I mean, very, very successful. And it's a, you know, it's a feel good script. It's, it just is. And another thing, if anybody wants any Donnie Brasco merchandise, you can go to Joppa stonemerch.com Joe Pistone P I S T O N E t o n.

[A]

E.Com all right, merch talk off the air. We'll do the news right after this. Omaha Steaks. Well, holidays are coming up. Lot of pressure to find the right gift and make the perfect meal this year. Omaha Steaks makes it easy, easy for me. I mean, they deliver the world's best, best steak experience right to your door. Whether you're hosting guests or gifting loved ones. They're USDA certified tender steaks, juicy burgers and comfort meals. Well, they hit the spot every time I've had Omaha Steaks as a gift. Cooks up perfectly every time. Flavors stand up. Top quality, top shelf. Love Omaha Steaks. Also giving packs out to friends. And they can't stop raving. I mean, because who doesn't want that gift? Orders place by 6:00pm Eastern Time. Ship same day. Perfect for last minute holiday magic. Omaha Steaks has been America's Original Butcher since 1917. Five generations of unbeatable quality grass fed grain finished beef with more marbling than your average steak. No wonder chefs rely on them. Am I right, Dawson?

[B]

Save big on gourmet gifts and more holiday favorites from Omaha steaks. Just visit Omaha steaks.com for 50% off site wide during their sizzle all the way sale. And for an extra $35 off, use promo code Adam at checkout terms Apply C site for details. That's Omaha steaks.com code Adam simply save.

[A]

Quick story. I hit that point where I realized that my security system was basically just a deadbolt and a wish. Well, that was before Simplisafe.

[C]

It's a.

[A]

Little random out there. Late night deliveries, random cars rolling by. Finally said, time for an upgrade. And that's where Simplisafe comes in. SimpliSafe. Two eyes in there. It's proactive. Traditional systems react after somebody breaks in. Simplisafe can help stop a crime before it starts. Simplisafe keeps your home safe with a double layer of defense. First, AI cameras detect potential threats, and then live agents confront them while they're still outside. Not in your home, outside your home before they can do real damage, telling them they're on camera and the police have been dispatched and they're on their way and they must leave. That's why I trust Simplisafe at my place, protecting the studio and all the gear here. Front door, driveway, all that stuff. All the stuff that needs to be protected. Because real security stops crime before it starts, right, Dawson?

[B]

Right now is such a good time to get Simplisafe. This month only get 50% off any new system. Go to simplisafe.com Adam again simplisafe.com Adam. There's no safe like Simplisafe.

[A]

Jim Carolla TA Ram ram rampets that.

[E]

Adam bought for you.

[A]

Ta ram, ram rampets. How about your gift, my son? I want a different one. TA Rum, rum, ramp. Sour notes ring out to rum, rum, ramp when he blows. You know, I never really. I never really thought about it, but my dad's entire life was. He played the trumpet and you didn't. That was his whole. His entire world was, I play the trumpet and you don't play the trumpet. Except for no one ever stopped and went, I don't think he's very good on the trumpet. It wasn't like Herb Alpert.

[E]

I not understand. It's the notes that you don't hear.

[A]

Yeah, well, I would appreciate not hearing more notes around Thanksgiving. But it. No one even. It was a weird. It was a. It was weird. I realized, you know, I don't know. If you vibe on this at all, shoot me. Yeah, I'm from North Hollywood.

[E]

You are?

[A]

There was zero hockey players in all of North Hollywood. There was no hockey because there was.

[E]

No ice, no rink, no pads, no gloves, no hockey mask, no slap shot, no puck, nothing.

[A]

Hockey cost money because you would have to buy your own equipment. Do you think Chris Carolla or the aforementioned Jim Carolla was buying Adam Carolla hockey skates? No. By the way, that you grow out of every year. By the time you were 17, you had five pairs of hockey skates no.

[E]

Listen, I had plenty of experience with this, with hockey skippers. They bought me size 12 because they knew my feet were going to get way bigger.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

And they were like size 8. And they swole up famously.

[A]

We had no. Nobody but one guy played hockey and his name was Jeff Katz. And he would show up with that big bag that had all the equipment in it.

[E]

CM has a distinct smell.

[A]

Has a smell, Has a smell. But I don't get what's different about it. I played Pop Warner football for seven years. They would issue pads, jerseys, helmets, thigh pads. It was the same thing. They would just issue you the stuff. But somehow in hockey you had to provide all your own stuff.

[E]

State funded.

[A]

My family wouldn't pay for pair of elbow pads. Right. So none of my poor buddies did. And they certainly wouldn't pay a rink. You'd have to go to the hockey rink. You have to go to the skating rink. Anyway, here's my point. Jeff Katz played hockey. None of us did. So he was the greatest hockey player that we'd known in all of the valley. And he would regale us with stories about, you know, hat tricks and slap shots. And we'd just sit there and go, wow, wow, wow. Jeff Katz was a squatty Jewish guy who wasn't a great hockey player. But the point, he didn't go pro.

[E]

He didn't get any neighborhood in Ottaw. He'd get stomped.

[A]

Stomped. But hold on a second.

[E]

I like the idea. Jewish Jeff Katz. This. You know what I mean? Body checking you.

[A]

But if someone would have got hold of any of us and went, who's the best hockey player in America? We go, jeff Katz. And I realize, smart, because when you're playing football, I play football. I had friends who played football. We knew who the good players were and who the shitty players were because they were on the team. We'd play with them. You know, everyone knew everyone's basically aptitude for baseball, basketball and football because we don't athletics. We would play them all day. You knew the guys that were good and the guys that weren't good. There was no line. But Jeff Katz was the greatest hockey player in the world because we never saw him play hockey. And we didn't know anyone who played hockey. And no one had any equipment. And I realized that my dad did that with the trumpet. He, Jeff Katz, us with the trumpet. He'd be the guy show up with the trumpet and no one else could get a sound out of it. If he ever got to a place where there are people who Knew how to play the trumpet, then they would have fucking laughed him right out of the room.

[E]

Admit, the only trumpeter that I know is Jim Carolla.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Is that why you didn't let him open for you at the El Portal playing the trumpet?

[A]

He did.

[B]

He offered to do that.

[A]

Listen. Yeah, you could have did go out there and play his trumpet, I think.

[E]

On a corner with a hat on a damn thing.

[A]

Must have been backstage. Now, that story. You were having beers. No, no. Here's what happened. This is the sad. It's a sad testimonial. But my dad, I've been. Now, I've been in this town for years and years. I'm at the Acme Theater. Acme Theater's up the street from the El Portal Theater. Literally. Same street, Lankershim. It's a block. You wouldn't drive if someone said, go to the Acme Theater. From the El Portal Theater. I've been at the El Portal Theater. I've been to the Groundlings Theater. I'd done the man show taped on Hollywood Center Studios, five seasons. Four seasons of that. I've done four seasons also on Hollywood Center Studios, of Loveline. Loveline Studios, Culver's Day. I've been every theater, every lot, filmed everything. My dad lived in Valley Village, you know, he lived two miles from the El Portal Theater. He lived three miles from where we shot the Man Show. Whatever. He has never said to me, hey, man, could I come out, check out the taping of the man show or Loveline or anything? And one day he just calls me out of the blue, and this how you need this? Listen, this is how you need to know everybody.

[E]

I feel breakthrough coming.

[A]

Everybody. My dad called me, and he goes, hey, you playing at the Upper Town Theater? I go, yeah. He goes, what night is that? I go, Saturday night. Oh, maybe I could come by. I was like, okay, now, all right, what's going on? Well, something's going on. You want to know why? Because people have patterns, good and bad.

[E]

Yeah. So what was going on?

[A]

Well, it always reveal. It reveals itself. It re. It always. It always reveals itself. He goes, maybe I'll come by and check out the show. I go, I'm not saying it, but I'm thinking, old man, I've been at this for 20 years. You've never checked out a show.

[E]

Well, what year is this?

[A]

This is like 2010.

[E]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Let's say, remember, the Man Show's 10 years old. I've done all. I taped 105 episodes of the Man Show. But he's Never come by to check it out. I've done 300 and something episodes of Loveline on MTV. He's never come by to check it out. I've done everything in this town. He's never come by to check it out.

[E]

Something piqued his interest.

[A]

Yeah, people. You can set your watch on people. So I go, really want to come by? He goes, yeah, check out the show. Come watch me perform, huh? He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll bring my trumpet and you know, maybe I'll go out and play first. And then, and then you could you come out? And I was like, all right, we're back now.

[E]

We're back.

[A]

Because remember, 10 seconds ago I just thought, you want to come check out the show, right? That was wildly confusing.

[B]

Trumpet and comedy. They'd be like, if I had a friend who's a magician and say, hey, I'm going to come to your show tonight, but before you go up there, I'm going to go up and solve some math problems.

[E]

Yo, I would have done it. I would have done it 100%. I would let my dad like play the damn fiddle and slapping, you know what I mean? Like some country bumpkin playing a damn saw on stage. I'm telling you, man, it is.

[A]

Listen, everybody, you tune in, you study patterns, and when the pattern is broken. Yeah, now look, there's a version of a pattern where I'm performing locally. I look out and I don't see my dad in the audience and go, oh my God, call the paramedics, because he's not in the audience. He's probably slipped in the tub and is bleeding out. There's that version.

[E]

It's just a trumpet resting on a folding chair.

[A]

Yeah, there's different patterns. There's good and bad. You.

[B]

It's all just variations.

[A]

On that note, you go to dinner with Jimmy Kimmel and he doesn't reach for his wallet. Something's going on with that guy, cuz he pays, you know, and then there's another pattern where you go out to dinner with a guy who never pays. And then the bill comes and he goes, let me take care of that, let me take care of that. And you go, now, pattern broke, pattern broke. You go, what about the pattern?

[E]

The guy talks over you sometimes.

[A]

Interesting. He goes, so if you see him reach for the check, but he never reaches for the check, you gotta go, pattern broke. And then hands the guy the credit card. And then what the guy will do is you'll go, really? You're paying for the bill, you know, you Pay every time. Time I pay. And then at some point they go, you know, I got a business proposition I'd like to get you in on. You know, it's going to be pretty lucrative, but we need some seed money. And you go, okay, okay. He's paying the bill because he's now hitting me up for cash for his bad business idea. See? Patterns. I'll tell you the greatest.

[E]

I'm telling you, man, it's NFTs, right? It's just the pictures of apes.

[A]

The thing about the patterns is it's when the people break their own pattern and don't know it and deny it. You know what I mean?

[E]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

That's the funny part. The greatest pattern story told many times, been a while, Many, many years ago, I leased my wife a car.

[E]

So you leased your wife, and then you got a car.

[A]

Mercedes. Got it. I think it was. No, it was a Jaguar. It was always a luxury automobile, and it was almost new. And one day I came home and there was a big scuff. Looked like someone took a hockey puck and just scuffed it, like black along the bottom. And I do what I do, I thought, well, I go down to the garage, get some buffing compound, rubbing compound. I rub that right out. It's not. It didn't cut into the paint.

[E]

Now we talking on one of those wheely gigs.

[A]

Motorized or don't need Turtle Wax?

[E]

Sort of.

[A]

Yeah. Listen, listen, people. You get a rag and you wet it and you put it in some rubbing compound. It's got a little bit of grit in it. It'll take out a lot of scuffs, a lot of stuff, all right? Then you wax it up after that.

[E]

Got it?

[A]

So I started to do that, and I thought, why do I gotta do everything? Why can't people take care of their own shit? So I said to her, you sent.

[E]

Her out there with the carnuba.

[A]

I said, you got a nice big scuff in your car. Why don't you go get some of that rubbing compound? It's all in the garage, and just go get it and rub it out. Just take care of it. It's brand new. It's a brand new Jaguar. Said, all right. I said, okay. Then next day I came home. There's scuffs there. And then the next day, scuff and scuff never left, right? Then I'd go home periodically. I'd go, hey, you still got that big scuff in that brand new car. At least you. Why don't you go in the garage and get a little of that rubbing compound from the cabinet, Clean it up. Okay? Never happened. Months went by, and that's essentially my life. Just because I'm leasing the car and paying for the insurance and everything. Why would you listen to me and take the scuff out? But anyway, it didn't happen. Never happened. And then at a certain point, you do what you do. You go, that's why y' all broke up? Yeah, that's why we got divorced. I said, all right, forget it.

[C]

I don't care.

[A]

Drive around with a scuff in your car, I don't care. But it's also. It's good to do stuff.

[E]

Irreconcilable scuffness.

[A]

So I forget about it. And one day I come home and she goes, hey, that stuff in the garage with the something. Rubbing stuff, paste. Is that down in the cabinet down there? I go, why? She goes, I want to clean up the car.

[E]

How many months and weeks. I mean, I'm a permanent scuff. And then now, weeks, Months later.

[A]

Months. All right, months later. I go, now, anyway, listen, don't try to explain your pattern to me. I'll explain your pattern to you. So she goes, I just want to. What was that stuff called? How was that working again? I go, why? She goes, I want to clean the scuff off the car. I go, why? She goes, I want to get it cleaned up. I go, where are you going? To the airport to pick up Nils Lofgren from the E Street Band. I go, okay, well, now I know. What are you talking about? Listen, I know why you're cleaning the scuff off the car now. Well, it has nothing to do with it. Either you know it or you don't know it. I know it. I know the pattern.

[E]

Not be aware. Yes. I think people are like, oh, it needs to look nice. But she doesn't connect it with old Dolph Lundgren.

[A]

That doesn't make you a serial killer. It just means you don't know your own patterns or you don't know that. I know enough to know your patterns, I guess.

[B]

Could you imagine, though, if Lynette was actually picking up Dolph Lundgren, then he'd.

[A]

Be like, yeah, okay, I'll do it.

[E]

I'll.

[B]

I'll clean up this.

[A]

I would clean it up. There's a dolphin. Nils.

[B]

No, it is Nils Loft.

[E]

Man.

[C]

Sorry.

[E]

Bob Mayhem.

[A]

All right, so know your own patterns, everybody. What do you got for news?

[E]

You know, here's the news. This is news to no one. In this office. But the pastor shocks congregants by revealing himself to be transgender. Oh, Tim Dillon's hard.

[A]

Oh, man. Guy looks like Tim Dillon. Well, it's actually. Sorry. Keep going. Sorry, Tim. Mm. Do we have a clip of it?

[E]

Oh, yeah, we have a clip. I'm waiting right now.

[F]

Pratt's okay with this? Absolutely not. They texted me this morning, and they asked for me to tell you all that they do not support me and that they have chosen their convictions and their beliefs over supporting their child.

[E]

Sort of a pat to pat situation.

[F]

It's nervous when there's a special announcement from the pastor. I'm not leaving. Hold on to that. I'm going to hold you to it. So rarely. Rarely do. I did not get into ministry to talk about myself or my personal life, but sometimes there are things that happen in a pastor's personal life that is going to find its way out into. Into ministry. And so I am inviting you to join me in a season of creative transformation for myself and, I think, for all of us. Imagine. So I get to announce with joy that I'm transitioning. I'm affirming and saying to all of you that I am transgender. And so the best way to put this is that I'm not becoming a woman. I'm giving up pretending to be a man.

[A]

What will change? I think that's.

[F]

Thank God you have never chosen me as your pastor based off of my appearance.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[F]

Amen.

[A]

I was waiting for. Pause it. I. I'm telling you, if you are going to transition, you want to be one of those little tie boys, right? But you don't want to start from.

[E]

You're saying lady boy, draft, top pick is Thai girl boy. Thai lady boy. All right, I'm picking up what you're putting.

[A]

What I'm saying.

[E]

The defensive end and the 42nd end. I get it. I get it. He's a femme boy, but he's a beefy one.

[A]

You don't want. Well, how would I describe him as a male between Tom Arnold and Tim Dillon and then the big gay guy from Modern Family, like, somewhere in there. Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

That's a tough transition.

[E]

Definitely bear vibes. And trying to go straight to Twinkie. Yeah, Twinkie.

[A]

All right. Sorry.

[E]

That was a slip.

[A]

Yeah, well, yeah, Tough. It's a tough road to o. I'm not going to church. I can't imagine how much work I am.

[E]

Way too lazy to molest back that priest.

[A]

Yeah. I cannot switch. I can't even do. You know, I was talking about it with Jay Moore the other day. Like if I come home from filming something and I have makeup on my face, I stand in the bathroom and go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta use soap. Oh my God. And then as part of me start weighing it out, like, ah, just go to bed. Well, you get shit on the pillowcase. Yeah, I know. But with the soap and everything on my, I'm so fucking lazy that I, I could not be applying makeup every day and wiping it off and squeezing my shit into it. Maybe if I had Lava, I could.

[E]

Have done a better job.

[A]

O'Reilly Auto Parts. Yeah, these guys keep your car on the road so you don't end up stuck on the shoulder looking like a dope. Friendly, helpful service. They know their stuff over there at O'Reilly. I've been there. Well, listen, I know my stuff. So I know the people who know their stuff because I know my stuff and they know their stuff at O'Reilly. Thousands of parts and accessories stocked in store and online so you don't have to panic when the check engine light appears. Need wipers swapped, brake lights out. You go to O'Reilly. They'll take care of you. If you're not a DIYer, they'll help you find a shop that'll take care of it for you. So whether you're a gearhead or you don't know a lug nut from a donut, they'll help you through it. No attitude, just real help. Stop by O'Reilly Auto Parts today or visit us at O'ReillyAuto.com Adam that's O'ReillyAuto.com Adam Pluto TV is free with all the best stories behind the days of brutal. So if you're feeling Frugal, stream Pluto TV.

[E]

Stream Pluto TV.

[A]

Stream Pluto TV for free. Stream blockbuster hits like 21 Jump Street, Ted, the Expectation and so much more on Pluto TV. Stream Now Pay never. All right, let's talk about important things. I want to show you a clip I took film of there's a job, the only work that's going on on all of PCH and all of Malibu. I went and filmed it today. I was, I was listening to Trump give his presser and he was talking about pile drivers going all night. He had like a boner about it. He was so excited about it. Listen, listen to this guy. Listen to this guy, okay? The last guy, brain dead Joe Biden never stopped talking about racism and baggage fees for black people and E room and whatever. I don't know what the fuck he was talking about. This guy, you don't think he's a builder. This is. This is him talking.

[C]

It was mistreated, the White House. Now it's being given love. And we're building one of the great, I think maybe the greatest ballroom. We needed it. For 150 years. They've been asking. You see the. The trucks and cranes and excavators in the background? And you hear them. And every time I hear them, I love the sound. To me, I love the sound. I wouldn't say my wife is thrilled. She hears pilot drivers in the background.

[A]

All day, all night.

[C]

They go till 12 o' clock in the evening. Day, night, pile drivers. Darling, could you turn off the pile drivers? Sorry, darling. That's progress. But all right.

[A]

By the way, lady, hey, could you stop this stuff, guy? Now it's progress. We need to build shit. Sorry, ladies, we're building stuff all night.

[C]

With the power drivers.

[A]

Sorry, we're building shit. Yeah, that's what we got to get back to versus. I don't know, a seat at the table, good vibes. Nonsense. Non.

[E]

Talk the whole damn house down and rebuild the whole thing.

[A]

It's fucking pile drivers. But I went out this morning and I went to. I told you people. All right, one day soon I will dedicate 25 minutes to this subject, which is a metaphor for the reason why we can't do anything in California and in Los Angeles. And I'll tie it all together, but I can't do it in five minutes. It's gonna take half an hour. But I'm working on it. I'm working on an expose that involves foundations as a metaphor for why we can't do anything in California. But there is one place only being built on all of Pacific Coast Highway. And I've been walking by there in the mornings and looking at it and filming it. And I told you guys that they were sinking six story piles or caissons into the ground. That's a six story building. It's a six story building in the ground. A foot of it may stick up and maybe in some places more. But the soil line, there's a six story. When you're standing on that lot, there's six story buildings underneath you worth of these piles and caissons and there's 35 or 70 of them and they're everywhere.

[E]

Got it.

[A]

And we're building this thing. They're having to build a seawall now. And I'll show you. Now you go, what's a seawall? Well, first off, why do you need a seawall? We never had the whole beach doesn't have a seawall. Anyone walked on the beach and tripped on a seawall. It's all of Santa Monica. All of you could walk to Venice Beach. There's no seawall. But if you want to build a house over the sea, you need a sea wall underneath you for no fucking good reason. Now remember, it was just telephone poles going into the ground. Every single house built. I was in Miramar, around Santa Barbara. I was walking the beach and I was looking at modern homes. They built multimillion dollar huge cement caissons. I came across a place that was built clearly in the 40s. It was just telephone poles smacked 10ft down. And then they have cross braces that kind of connect them and lock off the telephone poles. That's it. Place is still sitting there. I mean, it didn't burn down. The sea didn't get it. No seawall. No seawall. Just telephone poles. And it's the place next to it has a massive seawall and all the caissons in the world. But the place without it is still there. But anyway, I filmed this and I figured out how they're gonna build this seawall. And I'll. I'll explain it to you guys and I'll try to do it in such a way that you. That you understand it. Oh, this is dutched sideways. Sorry. It went. Andrew. We got to figure out a way to flip it. Flip it on its side. Anyway, what they do is they sink these caissons. They drill them.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Then they drop a six story cage into them. Then they fill them all with concrete and they make rows of it in front against the ocean. Close to the ocean. Maybe 20ft back from the ocean. And the caissons are spread out like every 12, 15.

[E]

And just wait. They're drilling into bedrock. Or I mean, down two.

[A]

They're going down six stories. I don't know how far into bedrock that is. And it'll be called out. You get a soils report, a geologist, an engineer. It'll be a little different.

[E]

Whatever step after the. They laid these case on.

[A]

So I was curious how you build the seawall. The seawall is not above ground. It's below ground.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

It's below.

[E]

Oh, so there has to be like a. Underneath the earth that's just purely.

[A]

Cast on what they do.

[E]

I was imagining a wall on top of these caissons.

[A]

No.

[E]

Oh, wow.

[A]

They dig. Then they gotta excavate down what? Oh, yeah. What are we doing?

[E]

Digging for gold.

[A]

When I was there, it was flooded because the seawater had seeped in overnight and flooded the excavated area. And they were trying to pump it out. You can hear the pump. They're pumping it out so they can get to it Now. I turned it up, sorry. So the soil report, the soil line is where I'm standing overnight.

[E]

So this is where the. Yeah, the sand begins, I guess you would say.

[A]

They dug it all out. You can pause it there. And the ocean is right there. Yeah. And so they go down and what you're looking at is water at the bottom of this pit that they're pumping.

[E]

Out underneath sea level.

[A]

So what they to do? Because I talked to a guy, I guess you can play it out, talk to him off camera. So they got all these.

[E]

This is the one building.

[A]

This is one house. This is one small house. There's going to be two and a half million dollars into the foundation. You won't see any of it. They got to build a seawall on the seaside. They have to build a retaining wall on the highway side. These are millions of dollars it's gonna cost to put a fucking house there. It's all in the name of safety, except for there's a house. The pier up the street is just on telephone poles. It was built in 1902.

[E]

So what's still there? What are you in favor of? And why is it like this too?

[A]

Like why?

[E]

It's just all up the code. This is the new code, okay?

[A]

What people don't realize is safety can destroy society. We fucked up every kid in the name of safety because of COVID Because we had a whole bunch of people announce, it's got. If one person dies, that's one too many, all right? You shut down schools, you fucked up kids. You got an experimental vaccination. They didn't need your safety shit, okay? Add, add, add. They keep adding. And it's all in the name of safety. But at some point, it becomes cost prohibitive. It's too expensive. And the reason we can't get low cost housing here is because there's so many fucking regulations that we can't do it. So people say all the time, they go, $680,000 for 400 square foot box for a homeless. Why does it cost 600? It's not like the Mexicans that are building it get $700 an hour. They get 30 bucks an hour, the same as they would get in El Paso. It's all the fucking regulation. And by the way, the commercial builders go, I'm out. I'm not doing this. It's too expensive. And so Is everyone along PCH except for this one place. So here's how they do it. Are you ready?

[E]

I'm ready.

[A]

I'm gonna treat you like a set. You'll be a layperson. Oh, well, I am less, ma'.

[C]

Am.

[E]

Ready to get laid.

[A]

I was trying to figure out how they did the seawall. Like, exactly what was the seawall. All right, so they drive, they drill the caissons. Yeah, caisson, it's about three foot around. Maybe it's 30ft.

[E]

It looks enormous.

[A]

Yeah, it's about three foot around, goes down six stories, comes up to about surface level, sand level, and they're spread out, say about 12ft apart. And they make a line of them in front of the ocean. Not that far in front of the ocean. It's already flooded. They make a line, then they excavate and they dig down and they got to go 20ft from the top to the bottom of the seawall. 20ft. Now, to be fair, the caisson would come out of the ground about four feet or something at that level at the sea. So they go down about 15ft from the top. They go down about 15ft and they excavate.

[E]

And about how much does that cost? About.

[A]

About 2.5 million to get this. Fucking worth it.

[E]

If it blocks a tsunami, it'll.

[A]

It'll stop an atomic bomb.

[E]

That's what I thought. Yeah.

[A]

So they go all the way down. They excavate. Now you have these round posts sticking up now, exposed, like 15ft in the air. 20ft in the air. So I'm saying to the guy, what do you do now? How do you do the seawall? He goes, seawall. Because my thing is, I'm thinking like an engineer, how we tying the seawall into these round caissons? They're round and they stick up 15ft. He goes, we got dowel into them. I go, okay, I get it. Doweling is just drill it. You drill it and you take three quarter inch rebar, and every one foot, you just epoxy it in like you're making a ladder. And they stick out like three feet. And they go in a foot in the caisson. And you do all that. Then you build a cage, which you've now dialed into the pose. Every foot, you do the center of it. Like I said, it's three quarter number six.

[E]

And then you put the wall on top of that.

[A]

You tie it into that more rebar, more three quarter inch rebar. And that connects from one post to the other post. Then you form it. Then you put the plywood. I asked him how thick? 14 inches thick. And it's 14 inches of reinforced concrete that gets tied into each post that goes down 15ft. Starts at the top of the post, goes all the way down, creates the seawall. But there are no other seawalls in the whole fucking stretch. And half the houses were built there before the seawall. And there's no erosion problem. It's just the fucking sand is underneath the house like it is everywhere else. The pier doesn't have a seawall, then they have to build another wall on the highway side to retain the highway.

[E]

How are we going to retain the ocean if we don't all build the seawall together? Build the wall.

[A]

This is. There's miles and miles and miles of coast. This is going to take up about 35ft of the coast with the seawall.

[E]

You're driving me nuts with this, Adam Corolla. I don't know why they're building the seawall at all.

[A]

I don't know why you're telling me this. Coastal commission. The bitches at the coastal commission want it done.

[E]

You're saying that a new commission needs a new job to do, so they make new rules so that it gotta go six feet down, I mean, six stories down, and then put caissons on top of caissons so that we can just have a place to smoke cigarettes.

[A]

Right? And so the moral of the story is, what is wrong with this? Okay? What is wrong with making a rule that says everyone who flies commercially has to wear a parachute?

[E]

Go, well, I'm down, dog. You feel like superman.

[A]

It's gonna take up a lot of room and it's gonna add a lot of extra expense to that ticket. Yeah, but. But in the name of safety. But in the name of safety. But in the name of safety. Yeah, I get it now. What it is, is the bitches that are making the rules, they're not operating the caisson rig. They're not paying for it. They're not paying for the cement, they're not paying for the rebar, they're not paying for the soils report. They're not paying for the deputy inspector. They're not paying for any of it. So they just sit around and make more fucking rules and cost more fucking money. And then at some point they go, we have a shortage of low cost housing. Housing. You know what your average house is? The average family can't afford the average house. Yeah, bitch, they can't. Because we have a problem. Because you've overregulated and they can't build. And then their plan is never peeling back regulation. You know what their plan is? The average family of four can't afford a house in the San Fernando Valley because the average house in San Fernando Valley is $1.6 million. Ah, here's my plan. We're going to raise the minimum wage to $80 an hour. We'll raise the minimum wage and then that family of four will be able to afford that. No, no. McDonald's is moving out of state, bitch. That's what's happening. And they're automating. And they're gonna have a kiosk and Flippy the robot and no more work for your fucking people. But your plan is overregulate the fuck out of everything, add price to everything, and then when people can't afford the shit you overregulated. Well, we'll give them an extra $80 an hour for minimum wage, and then they'll be able to afford it. That's your fucking retards version of the economy.

[B]

The other thing they're doing is they're trying to eliminate, especially in Los Angeles, single family home zoned neighborhoods.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So forget you can't afford a family home. No problem. We're going to put an apartment building next door and maybe you can afford one of those.

[A]

Yes. So I will keep an eye on this one place and one place only. Now, the other place, do you know who owns it?

[B]

Are these people Chinese investors or.

[A]

I heard. I heard a story. Story that they'd already had their shit in place before the fire. If you ever see any progress, like when Karen Bass goes, oh, we finished our first home in the Palisade. That house had already pulled permits, pulled soils, pulled engineering that cleared, plan check. That place was pre fire ready to be built. That's why it's done now. So don't, don't believe the hype. There's one property in all of PCH that's being built on. There's a story. And the story is they probably pulled all the permits and did all this stuff and were moving before the fire. And then the fire came in, did them a favor, took the structure out, and now they're going because there was nothing else. And the other thing, there's a wall in the Palisades that somebody graffitied on, and it said, thanks for taking my house, Karen Bass. And that thing promptly got painted over. But all the other places on pch, that shit's tagged. It's all tagged. It's been tagged. I took pictures of it months ago. Nobody's coming in and cleaning that up. I did a dick. So Karen Bass did not dispatch anybody to clean up all the shit along pch. She did dispatch someone to clean up the sign criticizing her for the Palisades fire. That one got taken care of. Yes. It's like my house now, Mare Bass. And it was a. Somebody stenciled it straight Banksy. Right. And that is Banksy esque. And then they just went and cleaned it up. But again, I'll take pictures and put them up. It's all.

[E]

I'm just gonna keep tagged everywhere until one of them goes viral.

[A]

Yeah, by the way, like, the owner would clean that up. There's no fucking house there. Why would you get in with a bucket of primer? Oh, there's more new tagging, so I will keep you posted. But it is absolutely insane. It's cost prohibitive, and it's a metaphor for the problems we have in the city, but it's also metaphor for big government. It's why you don't want a bunch of fucking dumb yentas sitting around making fucking choices. And when anyone talks about dictatorship, fuck right off. Because the ultimate overhand and overreach of government is you not being able to build shit on your own property. You understand? There will be. You gotta ask them for permission. And you gotta put two and a half million dollars into a seawall before you can begin framing that house. And they don't look at that as overreach of government, but they do look at Trump rounding up illegals as overreach of government. That's where they're at. They don't look at forcing a vaccine on you as overreach of government, but they look at enforcement of the border as overreach of government. They're all fucking ass backwards. It's gotta change, man.

[E]

Yeah, I mean, it's like a softening of the culture. On that side is a lot of people that, you know, have a over an abundance of empathy. Some would argue suicidal empathy.

[A]

I'm gonna go with suicidal empathy. All right, Mayhem, I'm gassed out now. God bless you. Thanks for that. Hey, Santa Barbara, this weekend, my daughter and her friends are coming out. Everybody. That'll be this Friday, Santa Barbara Comedy Club. Then Saturday, me and Jay Moore, Dos Lagos Amphitheater out here in Corona. And then it's off to Florida. Doing good there, I think. Some tickets in the Miami Improv couple shows each night. December 12th and 13th. Mayhem. What do you got?

[E]

Yeah, I got Thunder Studios, Lights out, promotion. We'll see you guys there.

[A]

This weekend and Joe Pistone deep cover the real Donnie Brasco. Until next time, Adam Crawford, Joe Pistone and Mayhem saying mahalo.

[B]

Pick up your phone and leave us a voicemail. The number is 888-634-1744 and then go online and get your tickets as the ace [e-mail].

[E]

Stream pluto tv stream pluto tv streaming.

[A]

Pluto tv for free. Stream blockbuster hits like 21 jump street ted, the expendables and so much more on pluto tv. Stream now pay never. With all the best. Stream blockbuster hits like 21 Jump Street Ted, the Expendables and so much more on Pluto TV. Stream now pay Never.