Episode Summary: Mariana van Zeller Exposes Cartels, Smugglers, Traffickers & Billion-Dollar Scammers
Podcast: The Adam Carolla Show
Air Date: November 19, 2025
Guest: Mariana van Zeller (Journalist, Host of "Trafficked" and podcast "The Hidden Third")
Timestamps included for major sections and notable moments
Overview
This episode features a candid, far-reaching conversation between Adam Carolla and renowned journalist Mariana van Zeller about the shocking breadth of the global black and gray markets. Mariana shares her insights and firsthand experiences investigating cartels, human trafficking, drug epidemics, billion-dollar scamming operations, and more, drawn from her work on "Trafficked" and her podcast "The Hidden Third." They cover the social, economic, and cultural factors fueling underground economies, the limits and consequences of government intervention, and the complex, all-too-human stories beneath the headlines.
Main Themes & Discussion Points
1. The True Scale of the Underground Economy
[03:28]
- Mariana describes how black and gray markets (from drugs to human trafficking to scams) make up an estimated 35% of the global economy, a phenomenon referred to by economists as "the hidden third."
Mariana: "These black and gray markets... occupy an estimated 35% of the global economy. Whether we’re talking about human trafficking or drug trafficking, guns, scams—these are problems that exist all around us that have a deep impact on our lives, and yet we know very little about them."
- Adam reflects on the disturbing persistence of issues like slavery and human trafficking in 2025, despite technological and societal progress.
2. Understanding Human Trafficking & Crime
[05:26]
- Mariana emphasizes that most people involved in crime aren’t inherently criminal—it’s often about economic desperation and social environment.
Mariana: "It's because of inequality and lack of opportunities and jobs that people end up involved in lives of crime. It’s usually not because they’re born wanting to be criminals... it’s the vast majority of people I speak to."
[05:55] - She shares the example of a Los Angeles pimp who said it was an aspiration due to local role models being "heroes" in that line of work.
3. The Rise of Scam Factories and the Role of AI
[06:54]
- Mariana describes "scam factories" in Southeast Asia (Myanmar, Cambodia), where people from across the region are trafficked, stripped of their passports, and forced to run romance and investment scams on Americans, making billions for the organizers.
- The "pig butchering" scam: scammers foster fake relationships with victims to eventually "drain all your accounts."
Mariana: "It’s called the pig butchering scam... I'm going to fatten the pig and kill it and drain all your accounts."
[08:39] - Modern scam operations already use AI for deepfake video, voice, and images, making it harder for victims to detect fraud.
Mariana: "They use [AI] for voices, for faces, for videos, for everything, which becomes even harder nowadays to figure out what's real and what's not."
4. Government Reactions, Corruption, and Regulation
[10:01]
- Adam points out that the persistence of such factories implies government corruption or complicity.
- Mariana highlights US sanctions on financial networks tied to these scam factories, but stresses local corruption often protects such enterprises.
Mariana: "Corruption is big. A lot of governments, a lot of powerful people are making a lot of money from this... However, the victims in many cases... are here in America."
5. Legalization, Overregulation & Unintended Consequences
[11:14]
- Adam and Mariana discuss how efforts at decriminalizing drugs and sex work often backfire due to overregulation or poor implementation, resulting in expanded black markets.
[13:09] - The California cannabis example: legalizing but overtaxing and overregulating marijuana led to black market growth instead of reduction.
Mariana: "We legalized it, but made it so difficult to gain licenses... that actually the black market for marijuana exploded. So it had the reverse effect."
[14:17] - Minority entrepreneurs are shut out even in legal markets, perpetuating cycles of exclusion and criminalization.
6. The US Role in the Drug Economy
[15:47]
- The US is the biggest market for illicit drugs; its demand fuels cartel activities, especially in neighboring Mexico.
[16:58] - The current opioid/fentanyl crisis and new dangers like "tranq dope" (fentanyl mixed with animal tranquilizer xylazine), which leads to horrific wounds and "zombie"-like symptoms.
Mariana: "We filmed in Kensington in Philadelphia, and it was one of the most horrible things I've ever seen... It’s a public health crisis that we seem to have forgotten or not care about."
[19:36] - Comparisons are drawn to urban indifference to crises—New Yorkers ignoring subway rats; Angelenos stepping over homeless and addicted people.
7. The Human Toll: Homelessness and Addiction
[21:13]
- Mariana underscores that many in addiction started with doctor-prescribed painkillers, not "lifestyle choices."
Mariana: "The amount of people I've interviewed who struggle with addiction... they went to the doctor, had back pain... a month later, they were shooting up heroin. This is not somebody who chose that."
[28:09] - Medical stigma leads to neglect of addicted or homeless people; hospitals often turn them away as "junkies."
[29:42] - Adam calls for a firmer stance: "Nobody gets to sleep on the street. That we cannot tolerate that, like, as a society..."
8. Potential Solutions & Societal Challenges
[33:48]
- The possibility of drugs (like Ozempic/GLP-1 analogs) to help with addiction—though Mariana notes the urgent need and potential societal benefits if such treatments prove effective.
[34:42] - Adam raises concerns about the unintended effects of "easy" fixes—like weight loss drugs—if they replace hard-learned discipline.
9. Life, Discipline & Anecdotes
[39:05]
- The value of self-discipline in daily routines, illustrated through a digression on bed-making and personal habits.
Mariana: "My parents always taught me that the biggest—you start the day by making your bed. And it's the best sort of discipline."
10. Journalism in Dangerous Places
[47:10]
- Mariana recounts being trapped in Niger during a coup while investigating gold mining funding terror groups—a glimpse of the risks journalists face.
Mariana: "We got there and managed to visit one of these very remote sites... and then a military coup happened. They took out the president and they closed all borders and airspace..."
[56:26] - She tells of moving to Syria after 9/11, being a 'secret journalist' in a surveillance state, and reporting on the origins of modern terrorist networks.
11. Cartels and Policy Perspectives
[60:55]
- Adam and Mariana debate whether cartels should be labeled terrorist groups, and what is effective policy.
Mariana: "I've spent time with cartel members... and unfortunately, the people that end up doing the trafficking are not the people in charge... indiscriminate killings of people without due process... I don't believe is the way."
- She argues the real issue is demand in the US; the "war on drugs" has failed—instead, understanding and reducing demand is critical.
Mariana: "We have spent billions of dollars fighting a war that we are losing, and we have been losing since Nixon began this war on drugs..."
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On AI in scams:
"AI they use for voices, for faces, for videos, for everything, which becomes even harder nowadays to figure out what's real and what's not."
— Mariana, [09:44] -
On the drug crisis as a public health issue, not just security:
"It's a public health crisis that we seem to have forgotten or not care about."
— Mariana, [17:58] -
On discipline in life:
"I'm wondering if that diet is like your metronome of discipline. Like, that's your base. It's gravity. It's like it's there every day."
— Adam, [37:10] -
On government overregulation enabling black markets:
"You do create a black market, even though it's legal. You created a black market."
— Adam, [14:03]
"Opponents of legalization usually say what happens when you legalize is you do away with the black market. Right. But in the case of California, it was a disaster."
— Mariana, [13:28] -
On the futility and harm of current approaches:
"The system right now isn't working for anyone, maybe we'd have better results."
— Mariana, [65:38]
Highlights & Segment Timestamps
Mariana’s Beginnings & Reporting Approach
- [03:27] — Mariana on covering underworlds and how her background influences her reporting
- [05:55] — "Pimp" episode anecdote—cultural forces shaping aspirations
Global Scamming, Trafficking, and Breakout of “Pig Butchering”
- [06:54] — Mariana explains modern scamming “factories” and the use of AI
- [10:24] — US government action and local government corruption
US Drug Crisis: Fentanyl, Tranq Dope, and Social Stigma
- [16:58] — The new “tranq dope” threat and its horrifying effects
- [19:07] — “Zombie” users in Philly, policy failures, and urban apathy
- [21:13] — Addiction origin stories: "predictable tragedy" via medical system
Legalization, Black Market Economics & Social Infrastructure
- [11:14] — What goes wrong when government overregulates legal markets
- [13:09] — Cannabis regulation case study
Investigative Fieldwork & Risks
- [47:10] — Gold mines in Niger, accidental entrapment during military coup
- [56:26] — Time living in Syria, early reporting on terrorism
Policy, Borders & The War on Drugs
- [60:55] — Cartel dynamics, why “shootouts” and border walls are not solutions
- [64:54] — Why cutting off supply doesn't work if demand is unchecked
Tone & Flow
- Unfiltered and candid: Adam’s signature humor and skepticism pair with Mariana’s nuanced, empathetic storytelling, creating a rich balance of journalistic insight and relatable conversation.
- Personal and global: The episode seamlessly moves from large-scale economics to the human faces behind stories—a pimp’s dream, an addict’s descent, a scam victim’s heartbreak.
- Socratic debate: Adam pushes back on some of Mariana’s conclusions, leading to thoughtful, sometimes tense, policy exchanges—always focused on real-world results, not abstractions.
Closing & Further Info
- Where to find Mariana’s work:
- Podcast: The Hidden Third ([66:23])
- National Geographic: Trafficked
- Adam’s live shows & plugs: [107:09]
For Listeners
If you want a deeply human, no-BS look at how global criminal networks thrive on inequality, government inaction, and cultural blind spots—with actionable ideas and fascinating true stories from the frontlines—this conversation is essential. Mariana van Zeller’s experiences bring shocking clarity to the realities most people never see or want to acknowledge, and Adam Carolla ensures no tough truth escapes examination.
Notable Quote for the Road:
"We have spent billions of dollars fighting a war that we are losing, and we have been losing since Nixon began this war on drugs... Maybe we'd have better results if we focused on the root causes."
— Mariana van Zeller, [65:38]