ADHD Experts Podcast | Episode 539

“From Battles to Bonding: A Parent’s Guide to Trading Defiance for Cooperation”

Host: Nicole Carr, ADDitude
Guest: Dr. Jeffrey Bernstein, Psychologist, Author of 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child
Date: January 23, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode, led by Dr. Jeffrey Bernstein, addresses the cycle of defiant and oppositional behavior in children and teens with ADHD. Dr. Bernstein blends professional expertise and personal experience to offer real-life strategies that help caregivers trade power struggles for empathy, connection, and lasting cooperation. Through anecdotes, psychological insights, and practical advice, the episode covers key issues—from understanding the emotional drivers of defiance to fostering resilience and emotional regulation in both children and parents.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Defiant Behavior in Kids with ADHD [03:24-15:45]

• Dr. Bernstein opens with a personal story of parental frustration and transformation, highlighting his own reactivity and the pivotal role of empathy.
  • Quote: “Empathy is the emotional glue that holds all relationships together.” – Dr. Bernstein [03:40]
• Common Traits in Defiant Kids:
  • Low self-awareness and emotional intelligence
  • Frequent power struggles and resistance to punishment
  • Short fuses, argumentativeness, high determination
  • Perceptions of equality or superiority to adults
• Key Reframe:
  • Parents should ask themselves: Is my child struggling with something, or are they simply choosing not to comply?
  • “ADHD is not an excuse, but it is an explanation.” – Dr. Bernstein [12:40]

2. The Parent-Child Defiance Cycle & Power Dynamics [09:00-15:00]

• Dr. Bernstein’s story illustrates the shift from punitive to relational discipline:
  • His son Sam’s defiant “Make me” and Dr. Bernstein’s moment of stepping back, calming down, and expressing belief in Sam.
  • Quote: “I heard myself say, ‘Sam, I’m asking you, please, to apologize to your sister. I know you’re better than this.’” [07:40]
• Takeaway:
  • Calm, firm, non-controlling communication breaks the cycle of emotional reactivity for both parent and child.

3. Emotional Dysregulation, Self-Soothing, and Problem-Solving [15:45-19:15]

• Dr. Bernstein’s Rule: The two most important life skills:
  • The ability to calm down
  • The ability to solve problems
  • Quote: “The two most important skills for life, in my opinion, are the ability to calm yourself down and solve problems.” [12:55]
• Defiant children often can’t self-soothe or think rationally when upset.

4. Moving from Labels to Understanding [19:15-23:00]

• Parents are urged to avoid harsh, global labels (“lazy” → “motivationally blocked”; “troublemaker” → “troubled within”).
• Instead, view setbacks as arising out of struggle—not malice or willful defiance.

5. Coaching Emotional Regulation [23:00-28:30]

• Anger is reframed as a “signal” or secondary emotion—look beneath (shame, sadness, anxiety).
• Practical Tools:
  • “Safe words” (“banana,” “grapefruit”) to pause escalating situations [24:40]
  • “Shrink the fireball” and “Squeeze a lemon” mindfulness exercises
  • Diaphragmatic (“belly”) breathing, counting to 10, stretching, and strategic “walk-aways”
  • Coaching kids to recognize helpful vs. unhelpful thoughts

6. The Role of Anxiety and Depression [28:30-31:30]

• Anxiety and depression frequently underlie oppositional behavior, often undiagnosed or unstated.
  • Boys especially may present as irritable/agitated rather than overtly “depressed.”
• The “distant elephant” metaphor for ADHD kids struggling with procrastination: school demands are out of sight until they loom and become overwhelming.

7. Positive Reinforcement and Cooperation Building [31:30-37:00]

• Dr. Bernstein emphasizes “catching kids being good.”
  • Concrete Steps: Keep a “Positive Catchbook” to record moments when the child:
    • Uses words, shows flexibility, lets things go, resists digital distractions, asks for help, etc.
  • Specific praise and frequent recognition crowd out negative behaviors.
  • Quote: “Praise them for what they do well... it starts to crowd out the negative behaviors.” [34:10]
• Encourage positive psychology: learned optimism, grit, “flow” states.

8. Cooperative Connection-Building Games [37:00-38:25]

• Dr. Bernstein shares games for practicing empathy:
  • “Put Yourself in Each Other’s Shoes” (literally roleplaying with physical shoes)
  • “Put the Past Behind You” (sharing and overcoming issues)
  • “Handfuls of Gratitude” (statements of gratitude while holding up fingers)
  • Quote: “Gratitude is a wonderful way... It’s hard to be grateful and be miserable at the same time.” [37:54]

Live Q&A Highlights

Violent Outbursts—De-escalation [40:19]

• Advice: Parents act as the “pace car”—set the emotional tone, remain calm and empathetic, don’t escalate.
  • Quote: “If your child revs up and starts accelerating down the track, your job is to be that pace car at 15, 20 miles an hour…” – Dr. Bernstein [41:40]

Resistance to Academic Help [43:12]

• Gently “name and normalize” obstacles to asking for help; calm, non-judgmental dialogue.
  • “The more you name it, the more you may tame it. Name it to tame it.” [44:00]

Resistance to Therapy/Counseling [45:56]

• Present help as a collaborative, coaching process for the family—not a fix for the child.
  • Allow the child the option to just observe or bring a distraction (e.g., phone).
  • Minimize pathologizing; focus on growth and support [46:10]

Using a Safe Word [48:35]

• When the safe word is used: pause, take a break, utilize calm-down spaces—work towards kids expressing a need for a break.

Parenting as an ADHD Adult [51:11]

• Affirm and record small victories in self-regulation; build confidence.
  • “How about identify your successes and build on them? I think that’ll raise your confidence.” [51:30]

Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) [53:09]

• Not a DSM-5 diagnosis, but validate child’s struggles, emphasize empathy, strengths, and victories. Seek professional support for underlying conditions as needed. [53:30]

Helping Other Adults/Peers Use These Approaches [55:40]

• Help kids process peer and adult conflicts, recognize triggers, and decide who they want to spend time with. Use school counselors as resources.

Supporting/Repairing Relationships with Older Teens [58:28]

• It’s never too late: “We can move quickly in the repair stage if we really speak from our heart and lead with validating.”
  • Take the pressure off the timeline; value circuitous progress and emotional safety.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I’ve never had an adult child come into my office and say what messed up my childhood was that my parents took too much time to truly listen to me. When that happens, I’ll probably quit.” – Dr. Bernstein [03:44]
• “Discipline is teaching. Punishment is presenting something negative and expecting a behavior change. And the punishment part wasn’t working.” [09:12]
• “No one likes to be told what to do, especially a kid who has a lot of defiance.” [15:07]
• “Our kids don’t sabotage their lives just for sport... They’re struggling, not scheming.” [22:30]
• “Gratitude is my drug of choice. You can never OD on it.” [37:54]
• “Most doors open both ways. Some things in life, you go forward, and you can go back and still repair.” [59:10]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------|-------------| | Intro and Dr. Bernstein Opens | 03:24 | | Story of Personal Parenting Crisis | 04:08 | | Defiance Cycle and Empathy | 09:00–11:45 | | Emotional Skills: Calm & Solve Problems | 13:00 | | Reframing Labels & Struggle vs. Defiance | 19:15–21:00 | | Emotion Coaching Tools | 23:00–28:30 | | Anxiety, Depression, Overbooking | 28:30–31:30 | | Positive Reinforcement/“Catchbook” | 31:30 | | Cooperative Games/Gratitude Exercise | 37:00–38:25 | | Q&A: Violent Outbursts | 40:19 | | Q&A: Getting Kids to Accept Help | 43:12–45:56 | | Q&A: Therapy Resistance | 45:56–48:10 | | Q&A: Safe Words & Breaks | 48:35 | | Q&A: ADHD in Parents | 51:11 | | Q&A: Pathological Demand Avoidance | 53:09 | | Q&A: Other Adults, Peers, Grandparents | 55:40 | | Q&A: Repairing With Older Teens | 58:28 |

Final Takeaways

• Foster an observer's mind: Step back, slow down, and move from reactivity to calm emotion coaching.
• Lead with empathy, not power struggles.
• Look for and reinforce strengths and small wins, not just deficits.
• Use practical tools (safe words, breaks, gratitude exercises) to regulate emotions and de-escalate.
• Collaboration, positive psychology, and emotional safety are keys to long-term cooperation and healing, even with chronically defiant or resistant kids and teens.

For accompanying handouts and resources, visit: attitudemag.com, search for Podcast 539.