Podcast Summary: EP. 321 – Unpacking Procrastination, Clutter, and Perfectionism with Dr. Christine Li

Podcast: ADHD for Smart Ass Women with Tracy Otsuka
Host: Tracy Otsuka
Guest: Dr. Christine Li (The Procrastination Coach)
Release Date: February 26, 2025

Overview & Main Theme

In this energizing and relatable episode, host Tracy Otsuka welcomes her long-time friend Dr. Christine Li—clinical psychologist, productivity & procrastination specialist, and creator of the “Re-Energize Your Home” challenge—on a mission to break the stigma around ADHD, especially for women. Together, they dive deep into procrastination, clutter, and perfectionism, sharing real-life stories, mindsets, and actionable strategies to create lasting change and release “visual pollution” from our lives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Christine Li’s ADHD Connection and Story

• Not formally diagnosed but shares classic ADHD struggles: difficulty prioritizing, time blindness, disorganization, emotional dysregulation, optimism, and a strong creative drive.
• Became the “Procrastination Coach” to help herself and others untangle habits that made life harder—without realizing, at first, that what she struggled with was procrastination.
  • Quote: “I remember the really old backstory was 9th grade Latin class, learning that the word Cras... meant tomorrow and that there was a word ‘procrastination’ that described who I was. That was a very light bulb-y kind of moment.” (08:00, Christine Li)
• Survived school through “painful” last-minute scrambles, frequent burnout, and self-imposed suffering, performing well but at a high emotional cost.
  • Quote: “I was doing things after the last minute... until all the other people were sleeping and I was alone, already frazzled. Finally it was the deadline—or the deadline that had already passed—that would cause me to launch into focus.” (09:51, Christine Li)

2. Understanding Procrastination and Perfectionism

• Behaviors (like procrastination) often aren’t recognized as such by those experiencing them.
• Procrastination is frequently rooted in self-doubt and perfectionism: “When we have self-doubt, I think everything becomes a little more confusing, a little more daunting, and a little more time consuming. ... Trust yourself and you’ll be that much more centered, focused and know where to head.” (14:06, Christine Li)

3. Humor, Optimism & Shared ADHD Experiences

• Tracy and Christine share funny, relatable stories about their ADHD brains—like getting lost in hotels and relying on their highly organized husbands as “executive functions.”
  • Quote: “We got in and we just both sat there because we expected someone else to push the button of where we were supposed to be going.” (12:11, Tracy Otsuka)
• Value of openness and optimism—embracing novel solutions (“We highlight that part of each other when we’re together”) (13:07, Christine Li).

4. The Clutter Conundrum: Emotional & Practical Dimensions

• Clutter is the “perfect adversary” for ADHD brains: represents constant distraction and can cause shame, overwhelm, and functional family stress.
  • “Clutter is kind of the perfect adversary for the woman with ADHD... it distracts you from the thing you actually want to get done. And yet... if we can focus properly, then the world is ours.” (20:53, Dr. Christine Li)
• Why do we hold onto things?
  • Attachment to memory (“love and fear in one item”), indecision, shame, guilt, resistance to letting go—sometimes to a “dysfunctional” degree.
  • Different cultures treat memories and sentiment objects very differently (e.g., no high school yearbooks in France, more emphasis on being present).
  • “There are tricky moments. But over time, for me, it’s like the less the better because the present moment is so rich and so valuable. ... Let’s just make more loving moments.” (33:34, Dr. Christine Li)
• Another source of recurring clutter: Inherited items or other people’s things, which can weigh down progress and identity.

5. The Need for Mindset Shifts

• No such thing as good clutter. Clutter is inherently draining; removing it is energizing.
  • “Clutter emits energy and we project negative energy onto the clutter. And we just don’t want that in our space.” (39:33, Dr. Christine Li)
• Move decluttering up the to-do list: Don’t wait until you want to; act in small steps, in community, and celebrate all wins.
  • “We want to move the decluttering up to the very top of our to-do list because it will never rise to the top naturally.” (36:46, Dr. Christine Li)

6. Practical, Real-Life Strategies for Procrastination and Clutter

• Mindset shifts for overcoming procrastination and clutter:
  • Change avoidance into action.
  • Focus on small steps (one drawer—not the whole house!).
  • Do it in community (with a buddy, group, or coach).
  • Prioritize decluttering early in the day, not last.
  • Drop perfectionism and celebrate all progress.
  • Recognize clutter as an energy drain and a distraction.
  • Frame decluttering as a source of “dopamine”—quick satisfaction.
  • Ask: “Is this useful for me now?” instead of “Will I need this someday?”
  • Quote: “Small steps are the tools—you’re not thinking the entire room ... just that drawer, just that one corner.” (43:30, Dr. Christine Li)
• Touch 1–3 Items: The Easiest First Step
  • “Touch one to three items. That is the difference between thinking about decluttering and actually decluttering.” (48:59, Dr. Christine Li)
• Make decluttering a simple, repeatable routine—Dr. Li’s “kitchen tornado” each night, for example, brings rapid satisfaction.
  • “It takes like 5.7 minutes... No one—I'm not going to get written up in the papers about this, but it makes me happy every single day.” (51:07, Dr. Christine Li)
• Track tasks with simple tools like Trello to maintain momentum.

7. Success Stories: Transforming Energy and Life

• Community decluttering (group challenges) brings joy, motivation, and accountability; celebrating “before and after” photos together builds resilience and pride.
• Letting go reduces perfectionism, increases available bandwidth for higher priorities, and is metaphorically linked to abundance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Procrastination’s Origin Story
  “I didn’t know what I was doing was called procrastination... I thought my brain worked differently, but I didn’t see that as something we could tinker with.” (08:00–09:16, Dr. Christine Li)

• On Emotional Cost of Procrastination “Nobody knew what I was doing to myself ... literally falling ill because of things like burnout when I was very young.” (09:51, Dr. Christine Li)

• On Clutter as “Visual Pollution”
  “Why would I want to have visual pollution in my space?” (26:13, Tracy Otsuka, relayed by Dr. Christine Li)

• On Mindset and Trust “Trust yourself and you’ll be that much more centered, focused and know where to head. ... Use that recipe for small things and big things.” (14:06, Dr. Christine Li)

• On Practical Steps
  “Decluttering itself as a behavior is very simple: pick something up and put it in the garbage. But the difficult part is understanding our emotional attachment.” (26:13, Dr. Christine Li)

• On Dopamine from Decluttering
  “Decluttering gives you a quick dose of, ‘Wow, I did that!’ and it was way easier than I thought it was going to be.” (45:59, Dr. Christine Li)

• The Power of Community
  “To get people together was actually part of the answer. When we band together and have our energy in the same space... generally, we all do better.” (23:49, Dr. Christine Li)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:37 - Dr. Li’s self-intro & ADHD “symptoms”
• 08:00 - Discovering procrastination as a concept
• 09:51 - High achievement, high cost: academic suffering
• 12:11 - Humorous stories about ADHD brains in daily life
• 20:53 - Clutter as the “perfect adversary,” why it’s overwhelming
• 24:40 - Emotional/psychological attachments to clutter
• 33:34 - Cultural contrasts and letting go of the past
• 35:19 - Inheriting others’ clutter and the risk of losing oneself
• 36:46 - “No such thing as good clutter”, prioritizing decluttering
• 43:13 - Mindset shifts for overcoming procrastination/clutter
• 48:59 - “Touch one to three items”—the starting ritual
• 52:42 - Tools (e.g., Trello) for organization
• 55:22 - Dr. Li’s “Re-Energize Your Home” challenge
• 57:43 - Final encouragement and celebration

Actionable Takeaways

• Start Immediately: Don’t wait for the perfect time. Touch just 1–3 items in your clutter zone and move them (out, to their place, garbage, etc.).
• Small Steps Win: Stop aiming for total perfection; celebrate incremental progress.
• Community Counts: Join others—whether a friend on the phone, a group, or an online challenge—and gain support and accountability.
• Reframe Clutter: View clutter as an energy drain, not just a mess.
• Use Simple Tools like Trello to track small tasks and notice progress.
• Repeat as Routine: Build “declutter” moments into daily life (e.g., the “kitchen tornado”).

Further Resources

• Dr. Christine Li’s Free Challenge:
  procrastinationcoach.com/tracy
• Tracy Otsuka’s Book & Programs:
  ADHD for Smart Ass Women, Your ADHD Brain is A-OK Academy