EP. 348: Doing It Differently: ADHD, Autism & Rewriting the Script for Our Kids with Natasha M. Nurse, Esq.

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: ADHD for Smart Ass Women with Tracy Otsuka
Episode: EP. 348: Doing It Differently — ADHD, Autism & Rewriting the Script for Our Kids with Natasha M. Nurse, Esq.
Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Tracy Otsuka
Guest: Natasha M. Nurse, Esq.

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Episode Overview

This episode features Natasha M. Nurse, Esq., a neurodivergent leader, strategist, and Managing Director at MRM Education. Tracy and Natasha delve into Natasha's dual ADHD and autism diagnosis, her journey as an adult and mother, and her mission to create inclusive systems for neurodivergent learners. The conversation is rich with lived experience, frank reflections on childhood, parenting philosophies, the intersection of culture and achievement, and practical insights on educational reform.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Natasha’s Diagnosis and Neurodivergent Journey

• Motherhood as Catalyst: Natasha describes how becoming a mother sparked her journey toward understanding her brain, as she struggled with overwhelming emotions in response to her son’s crying ([04:09]).
• Dual Diagnosis: She was diagnosed at age 37 with both autism (level 1) and ADHD, "combined type," leading to new self-understanding ([04:09]).
• Childhood Loneliness: Natasha recalls feeling "like an alien" as a child, never quite connecting with peers and finding solace in books and adult films ([07:30]).
• Cultural Expectations: Achievement-oriented parenting, stemming from her Jamaican upbringing, played a central role in her academic drive but also left her perpetually chasing the next milestone ([08:50]).

Quote:
"I've always...felt like I was an alien, feeling like I just didn't know how to connect...I grew up very lonely...I did well in school, like so many of us do, but it just was a lonely, challenging experience." — Natasha ([04:09])

Parenting & Rewriting the Script

• Conscious Parenting: Natasha intentionally fosters self-reflection and emotional awareness in her son, emphasizing self-pride over external validation ([11:23]).
• Breaking Intergenerational Patterns: She asks her son, “Are you happy? Are you proud of yourself?”, questions she never heard growing up ([11:28]).
• Finding Community: Through intentional parenting, Natasha supports her son (also autistic) in forging meaningful friendships and practicing social skills ([13:16]).

Quote:
"Every time we go to swimming or soccer, I don't tell him I'm proud of him, I say, ‘Are you proud of yourself?’ What did you enjoy the most out of this? I want him to be reflective around experiences." — Natasha ([11:28])

Coming Into Her Own

• College as Turning Point: Natasha credits Penn State for helping her develop interpersonal skills and self-understanding, especially meeting her now-husband ([15:16]).
• Law School & Career: Despite challenges, the structure and logic of law appealed to her neurodivergent mind. She shifted from traditional law to education-focused leadership ([19:01], [20:17]).

Quote:
"I have been creating rules as to how to live life. ...The parts of life that become more difficult for me are when I don't have a set rule and I have to figure it out." — Natasha ([19:01])

Reimagining Education for Neurodivergent Learners

• MRM Education: As Managing Director, Natasha helps build inclusive educational systems, consults with families, and develops strategic partnerships ([21:13]).
• Philosophy: Meeting each learner where they are—"Our brains work the way they work. So let's figure out how to make it work in an efficient and productive way" ([21:13]).
• Challenges in Public Education: Natasha and Tracy discuss how overwhelmed educators are unprepared for true inclusion, and how services like MRM fill those gaps ([24:14]-[30:59]).
• Systemic Change: Natasha stresses the importance of honesty from educators and parents, thorough needs assessments, and teaching to students' interests to create real transformation ([30:40]-[35:14]).

Quote:
"We want to meet the child where the child is at, and we want to create systems and educate in a way that helps people thrive...When you try to do the opposite, it doesn't work." — Natasha ([21:13])

ADHD, Autism, and Leadership

• ADHD Strengths: Natasha credits ADHD for her wide range of interests, drive for holistic professional development, and adaptability ([37:40]).
• Hyperfocus: She describes long stretches of creative productivity but notes the physical cost and need for boundaries ([38:28]-[39:52]).
• Strategies: Natasha relies on calendar-blocking (supported by her autistic trait of loving rules), content creation for accountability, and being interrupted by her son to break hyperfocus ([41:08]-[43:20]).

Quote:
"I live and die by calendar blocking. So now I just put in lunch break, walk, drink water, because if I don't, then I won't." — Natasha ([41:08])

• Emotional Growth: Natasha practices self-education and radical self-acceptance, and is determined to model emotional openness for her son ([44:21]-[45:41]).

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Memorable Quotes

• On Brains:
  "Your ADHD brain is not the problem. The way you've been taught to use it is." — Tracy ([00:05])

• On Social Connection:
  "Adult friendships, like, are convenient. People will only make time for you when it works for them...But at least with school, if you can forge relationships early on and intentionally foster them...hopefully they can go into their adult life feeling more secured and connected to others." — Natasha ([13:39])

• On Educational Philosophy:
  "If we could teach to interest…But in order to do that, we're going to have to nix the whole school system. Because the school system insists on going wide instead of deep." — Tracy ([33:23])

• On Authenticity in Parenting:
  "He's the only person who just wants the totality of me. I don't have to be a certain version of me for him. He wants all of Mommy...I've never felt that before." — Natasha ([47:04])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:05–03:47 — Introduction, Tracy’s vision, Natasha’s intro
• 04:09–07:30 — Natasha’s childhood and late diagnosis
• 08:50–12:26 — Achievement culture, self-worth, and parenting differently
• 13:16–16:21 — Social skills, motherhood reflections, fostering community
• 19:01–21:13 — Structural learning preferences, transitioning to law and beyond
• 21:13–24:14 — MRM Education’s mission and Natasha’s leadership
• 24:14–30:59 — Challenges in public education, supporting diverse learners
• 30:59–35:14 — Systemic change, teaching to students’ interests
• 37:40–39:52 — ADHD as leadership superpower, hyperfocus, setting boundaries
• 41:08–43:47 — Calendar tricks, self-awareness, content-driven accountability
• 44:21–46:53 — Emotional intelligence, modeling for children
• 47:04–48:11 — Authentic love and removing the mask with her son
• 48:50–49:22 — Where to find Natasha and MRM Education

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Further Resources & Where to Find Natasha

• MRM Education: mrmeducation.com
• MRM Swellcast Channel: swellcast.com/mrm
• Tracy’s Academy: Your ADHD Brain is A-OK Academy

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Listener Takeaways

• Neurodivergence can be a source of creativity, leadership, and resilience.
• Intentional, emotionally attuned parenting radically improves outcomes for neurodivergent kids.
• Education must evolve to celebrate difference, meet students’ interests, and support teachers.
• Hyperfocus is both a gift and a challenge; boundaries and self-care are essential.
• Self-acceptance starts with understanding the “why” behind your brain’s wiring.

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Final Note:
This episode is a powerful testament to the value of embracing neurodivergence and rewriting the scripts around achievement, education, and parenting. Both Tracy and Natasha offer laughter, wisdom, and concrete steps to help families, educators, and individuals support neurodivergent people in thriving as their full selves.

Transcript

[A]

Richard Branson, Michael Phelps, Justin Timberlake, James Carville. Wait a minute. Where are the women? Greta Gerwig, Lisa Ling, Audra McDonald, Simone Biles. That sounds like a list of highly successful titans in a variety of industries. They all have adhd, but you don't have to hear much about that, now, do you? You know what else you don't hear about are the 43% of people with ADHD who are in excellent mental health. Why aren't we talking about them and what they're doing right? I'm your host, Tracy Adsuka, and that's exactly what we do here. I'm a lawyer, not a doctor, a lifelong student, and now the author of my new book, ADHD for Smartass Women. I'm also a certified ADHD coach and the creator of youf ADHD Brain is okay. A patented system that helps ADHD women just like you get unstuck and fall in love with their brilliant brains. Here we embrace our too muchness, and we focus on our strengths. My guests and I credit our ADHD for some of our greatest gifts. And to those who still think they're too much, too impulsive, too scattered, too disorganized, I say no one ever made a difference by being too little. No sponsors, no ads, just real ADHD support. Because I know how much bad advice is out there. If you're ready to start falling in love with your ADHD brain, here's how. Your ADHD brain is not the problem. The way you've been taught to use it is ready to finally work with it and not against it. Then check out my youy ADHD Brain is a okay Academy. You'll find the link in the first line of this episode's description. Now let's get on with the show. Hello, I am your host, Tracy Otsuka. Thank you so much for joining me here for another episode of ADHD for Smartass Women. You know that my purpose is always to show you who you are and then inspire you to be it. And the thousands of ADHD women that I've had the privilege of meeting, I've never met a one that wasn't truly brilliant and at something. Not one. So, of course, I am just delighted to introduce you to Natasha M. Nurse. Natasha M. Nurse, Esquire, I should say, is redefining what leadership looks like, especially for neurodivergent minds. As a strategist, storyteller, and managing director at MRM Education, she helps build the systems that make true inclusion possible, connecting educators, families, and communities so no learner falls through the Cracks. Diagnosed with adhd, Natasha doesn't just accept her brain, she builds with it. Whether she's teaching body doubling for productivity, breaking down hyper focus, or helping organizations rethink how innovation actually happens, Natasha shows what it means to lead with purpose and difference. She knows inclusive systems aren't accidental, they're intentional. And she's using her voice and work to. To build a future where neurodivergent learners aren't just supported, they're seen, valued, and celebrated. Welcome, Natasha. Did I get all that right?

[B]

Yes, you did. Thank you. Thank you for being here. I promote your book all the time. I'm so excited and so honored to speak with you.

[A]

Yeah, thank you so much. Well, I'm delighted to have you, to have you here to speak with us. If you've listened to any of my podcasts, you know that I always start with our guests ADHD story and I'm hoping you'll be willing to share yours with us.

[B]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Mine may seem a little dark, so I just preface that. So essentially, I lived my whole life well into my 30s, not knowing that I was neurodivergent. And then I had my son. And motherhood really is the sparking point for my neurodivergent journey because he was bored and as all babies do, they cry and do what babies do. But I was having a really, like, challenging response to his crying and him being upset. I was having a lot of dark thoughts. It was just really overwhelming. And I know motherhood overall is overwhelming. And thankfully I have people in my village, like his godfather who was like, maybe you should talk to a doctor. Right? Like, maybe you should kind of see what's going on. And that led to, oh, well, I, you know, I have a lot of rigidity as to how I have to do things and a lot of hyper focus behavior and also like overthinking patterns that never end. And so got diagnosed when I was 37 with autism level one. And then a lot of times folks know that that party trick comes with adhd and I have the combined time. Yeah, it was like aha moment for me because I've always, even as a child, since I remember being like six, feeling like I was an alien, feeling like I just didn't know how to connect with other kids and like the things that I was really excited about, other kids were not really excited about. And I grew up very lonely. I grew up in Manhattan, New York and Stuyvesant. And you know, I tell people all the time, like, unless I spoke to kids, no one really spoke to me. So I was always by myself and I did well in school, like, like so many of us do, but it just was. It was a lonely, challenging experience. And also I just felt things very deeply and, and it just, it was hard. It was definitely hard. So getting this diagnosis and copy paste. My son is also autistic. It's also been really freeing because now I feel like a. I know what's going on and I can start to read resources and books like yours and, and really how I can operate in the support and the thriving of my mind as opposed to working against my mind.

[A]

Were you diagnosed first with autism and then ADHD or was it combined together the first time?

[B]

Combined.

[A]

Okay. And what do you feel leads it? Do you feel like your autism leads or your adhd?

[B]

I would say the creativeness and like my people stuff led through autism, but my productivity and my passion, diversity, adhd thriving.

[A]

Okay. And you know what I always say? I always say that the most successful women that I meet have a little bit of both because it's constantly fighting each other. Right. Part of the problem with ADHD is the spontaneity and we don't wanna be upside down and the freedom, but that can also be a nightmare. Right. It's what makes it really hard for us to finish that thing so we can move on to the next thing and Show Our Brilliance vs with Autism, you care about schedules and you care about calendars and you care about getting things done. So it's a really great comb. So you've already shared that your childhood was hard, but you were a really good student. And so I'm curious, with friendships, was it that your interests were so. Well, probably hyper interests. Right. Hyper focus. But also that they were kind of grown up interests so kids couldn't relate.

[B]

Yes. I say all the time, I didn't really have friends. I had books and film and my parents gave me fortunately and unfortunately a lot of freedom. So I've been watching HBO my whole life. So I've been watching things that. Yes, we're more adult driven. And I've always struggled with like children content. Like Sesame street creeps me out. I'm like, oh, gosh, Big Bird. That's horrifying. It's just. It scares me. Cookie Monster. Absolutely not.

[A]

I know in a garbage can, like this is.

[B]

No, I'm not for this life. But Sex in the City, here we go. I was for grown up content all the time, but I wasn't fast. Right. Like kids in the city. I don't know if it was just Manhattan. But they were kissing in second grade. They were doing all sorts. I wasn't about that life, but I was always about consuming that content. Like, yeah, like, Fatal Attraction fascinated me as a child. Like, but the idea of kissing someone, I'm like, you have germs in your mouth. That's gross. But see, I feel like that's where the autism is. Driving there.

[A]

Absolutely. As far as school went, did you kind of see that as your way out? Because this is also a real ADHD thing, right? Where it's always like, next. What's next? You accomplish something that people are like, yay. And you're. You're not even celebrating because you're on to the next thing. And I know that's how I felt about education. It was always like, what more could I attain? Because then I'd be living my real life.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. I. Oh, that resonates so well with me. Because what's also interesting with my ADHD is culturally, my mom and dad are from Jamaica, and Jamaican culture is all about productivity and achievement. I have several cousins that are doctors. I'm the second lawyer. And how my dad raised me. He left Jamaica when he was 10 and grew up in Wolverhampton, England, and then joined the British Air Force. And so he was very militant as a father with me. So it was always about, like, what's next? What's next? And even when I would get a 98, you know, I never got congratulated, right? It was always like, why didn't you get 100? And then even when I got 100, could you have gotten more? And one time when I was a child, I did ask him, like, why do you never say, like, good job? I saw that on television. I was like, no one ever says that to me. And his response is, why should I congratulate you on what you're supposed to do? Right? Like, and so it's been very hard to feel a sense of accomplishment because, you know, I'm 38, going on 39, and I have done a lot of. A lot of life. I've had a lot of things. If you look at my LinkedIn profile, you're like, this is the profile of 27 people. I mean, this doesn't make sense. And if you were to ask me, like, do you feel successful? That's a really hard question to answer, because it does always feel like, what's next? How am I doing? And I struggle with that because I do want to feel not satiated, but at least feel like I can pat myself on the Back. So, like, I'm working with my son now so he can feel a bit more content than I do, because I really struggle with that. Yeah.

[A]

The only way around it, though, right, Is to appreciate those things and celebrate those. It's hard for us, but I have noticed that the more I do it, I feel weird. And I think because I grew up in a family like yours where it doesn't matter what you do, it is never plastered anywhere. It's like, you know, you want to be modest, you want to really achieve, but you've got to be modest.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I have learned to just go ahead and talk about what I do, even with my family. And part of it is because I have a husband who is the biggest cheerleader ever. He will be the one to say the things. And then I think he gets the blowback that, oh, my God, he's always bragging about her. He's always bragging about his kids. Like, I think that's. That's the thought. But I never tell my kids I'm proud of them, because who am I to be proud of them? But I will say I'm really proud for you. I want them to grow up, and my kids are now 26 and 23. I want them to be able to see their accomplishments, be proud of them, because I know if we can do that for them, that comes with more of a sense of, oh, you know, I am okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't need to achieve more. I'm good just the way I am, just for who I am.

[B]

So same thing for me. Similar pathway in that I also struggle with happiness. Right. Like, I know that that's an individual formula that we each have to define and make for ourselves and curate as the different seasons of our life continue. But with my son, yeah, I realized, like, when I got to 30, that, like, no one. My parents have never asked me if I was happy. And I, like, was really struggling with that. Like, why does. No. How do you have a baby and not care if they're happy? Like, that's crazy. So even from what my baby was, like, five months, he's four years old now. I'm like, are you happy? Are you? Gets a real trigger for me because I need him. I don't care what he does in this world. I need him to be happy. I need him to know. Yeah. That he's okay, he can accomplish anything, and that he's proud of himself. So every time we go to swimming or soccer, I. I don't tell him I'm proud of him. I say Are you proud of yourself? What did you enjoy the most out of this? I want him to be reflective around experiences. Again, those were questions that were never asked me, like, why do I like a book? They don't. Never ask me. Just, did you read? Right. Did you do your 100 books for the summer? Yes.

[A]

100 books for the summer. Did you even go out in the.

[B]

No. Yeah, I was always. That's. I'm happy to be in Arizona because in New York, I was like, in my apartment.

[A]

That's true. The summer's in New York. That's totally true. You wouldn't want to be out there, right?

[B]

Yeah. But here, yeah, we go out. We are always. Because, you know, with autism, social anxiety is a thing for us. Right. And so working with him and working for myself, even, you know, helping him to understand. You can go in spaces and you can. Even the crowds. You can find your small space. You can find. You can make space for yourself. And again, how can you have fun? You know? So life for him is very much about learning, but also figuring out more about himself so that if he does this and he can master this by time. He's 18, and I, you know.

[A]

Absolutely. Has he been able to find any friends that are like him?

[B]

Oh, great question. Yes, he does. He has neurospicy friends.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

He has neurotypical friends, and he connects better than I do. And I think a lot of it is because of the intentional parenting that me and my husband do with him in that we're constantly, constantly trying to make play dates and make him understand how to have fun by himself and how to have fun with others, because that is hard as an autistic person. It's very challenging.

[A]

Yeah. And he's also 4, so he's probably still kind of the side, you know, side play.

[B]

Oh, yeah. It's very hard, but he's doing a good job. And it's so warming, like, heartwarming. I bring him to class and they're like, kj. Like, they welcome and celebrate him in a way that I've. I don't feel like I've was ever celebrated in school. And so it's. It feels good to know that, like, his interpretation of people is going to be different than how I grew up, because it was very much like I feared going to school. Not from the learning, but from the people side of things, just because it just felt like no one wanted to spend time with me. No one liked me in it. And that's been a hard thought to like. Like does anyone really like me? Does it, like, it feels hard, especially as you get older because, you know, adult friendships, like, are convenient. People will only make time for you when it works for them. And it. I like, I just don't understand it. But at least with school, uh, it seems like if you can forge relationships early on and intentionally foster them, that hopefully they can go into their adult feeling more secured and connected to others.

[A]

Well, Natasha, just from the outside looking in, having spoken with you now for, oh, I don't know, 20 minutes, why would anyone not like you? You're so. There's so much bubbliness and joy, so I wonder how much of that our thoughts. Right.

[B]

Yeah. And that's adhd, right? Like that we have such negative thought patterns and it can just be really, really challenging to tackle because it's. Yeah, your brain will say wild things to you.

[A]

I am curious, once you got through, when did it start getting easier with peopling in terms of was it high school or was it college or was it law school?

[B]

Ooh. So I would attribute this to Penn State. We are. I am a proud Penn Stater. I met my husband there and we. With my husband, it was really great because it was the first time that I found someone who, like, wanted to know more about me. And he was so thrilled that I was 21. Questions about him, like, you know, very investigatory when I do ask questions. And. And we spent four beautiful years together enjoying Happy Valley. And. And then that led to me learning how to interact more. It was more diverse. It was like the most amount of black people I had been in a room with. And it was like, that was so exciting. And so I got to understand myself more. I got to understand culture more. I got to understand, like, relationships. That was my first serious relationship. And yeah, from there then I started to get better with it. But would I say I master it? No, I more go into it conversation wise of thinking, like, I'm going to put my best foot forward. I'm going to try to envision that this will be the best experience and we'll see what happens. But I'm going to try to be light, you know, in a dark world.

[A]

You know, the thing about it, though, is I'm just thinking back of. So my daughter's. Well, she's going into her third year of law school at Fordham, so she's in New York as well. Obviously. I went to law school too. And I remember it's almost like you get so thrown together with people because it's so intense.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It Wasn't as intense for me as it was for her. And I think it's because it's almost more as demanded today than when I went to law school. And so is that part of it. Like, you can't help but really get connected to people because it's almost like you feel like you're on a boat and you're all gonna go down together, you know, if you don't, you know, figure this out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Were you Marri. Married in law school, though?

[B]

Oh, no. So, okay. Husband. You'll laugh. So I needed. Yeah. Health care, and so.

[A]

We would.

[B]

We've been together nine years at that point, and I was like, hey, I need health care. He was like, cool. And he was like. Like, we were like, do we do a wedding? He's like, you're going to law school. That's your wedding. So we just did city Hall. But, yeah, no, I knew I wanted to be with Khalil six months in to be with him. But, yeah, our. Our wedding was. Our marriage was more logistical, practicalness, not like Vera Wang and all the fancy things that I would. I would. If I wore. I would do wear Vera Wag. I love her so much so that. Yeah. But. But with. I went to New York Law School. I would say super competitive, but, yes, I did enjoy the friendships that I had at the time. Have they lasted since law school? Nope. People drift and they do what they do. But I did enjoy the intellectual. Yeah. Camaraderie that you form because you're like, well, hey, we're all on fire. Let's be on fire together.

[A]

There's a lot of people like you. Right. They're just. They're intense. And I didn't much enjoy college, but, you know, it's the ADHD thing. The closer you get to the areas that you're really interested in, the more the better you are. As a student, I did a master's in law at Georgetown, and that I just loved because it was business, and it was. There was an entrepreneurial component to it. And I liked securities law because everything kind of slots into its little space. And I've said this many times. I would not be surprised if I, too, were somewhere on the autism spectrum. But it's that liking order.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

And securities law gives you that. It's not so much of, you know, oh, go figure it out. Which is the argument you could make. It's much more boom, boom, boom. And my brain understood that.

[B]

I went to Penn State for animal science. I had to watch a pig get slaughtered. I had to dissect. And yeah, I was not for that life. I said, I like to play with animals. I don't like to cut them open.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So then Tara started taking some business law classes. And just as what you were just saying, I loved it. I love the structure and the focus. And this is this type of corporation and these are the rules that apply to this. Like, I was like, so, So I was like, there are rules? Yes. I love. Because, yeah. Like, I try to explain people like. Like in my mind, autism has been. Even though I didn't know I was autistic, I have been creating rules as to how to live life. Right. So I get out of the bed this way. I put on my shoes. I listen to this in my mind. I'm constantly creating rules. And the parts of life that become more difficult for me are when I don't have a set rule and I have to figure it out. And I'm like, oh, gosh, well, do I pull upon this? Like, that's what it feels like. And, and, and that's where it can be hard because there's so much rigidity then with that. Right. Like, like, well, what if life, it throws a different curveball at you? What do you. It's gonna break your rule. You have to change your rule. What do you do? And, and so, yes, I went to New York Law School. I started though, in the 08 crash, which was perfect timing and led me to become a non traditional attorney, which, listen, at the end of the day, I do believe everything happens for a reason. But that was challenging though, because I. I would have been interested in doing like trusting estates again, specific rule driven arena. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So you get out of law school.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then what happens? Do things get easier or. Because it's 08 and is it harder?

[B]

Harder? Yeah, harder still navigating people. Right. And failing utterly and then trying to figure out my career and failing. Right. In the, in the traditional sense. And so got into like education, sales people, operations, and then, oh gosh, dei, and then, oh gosh, losing that space, but then getting into. Back into education and then working with MRM education, which has been such a beautiful convergence because it's been now me bringing my neurodivergent self into a role designed for me to connect and empower neurodivergent spaces. And so it's, it's so personally and professionally gratifying.

[A]

You're with your people. It makes perfect sense. So tell us what MRM education does.

[B]

Yeah, so we are a tutoring and executive functioning coaching Organization virtually operated. So we work throughout the United States, internationally. And I, as managing director, I not only support and reach out and create partnerships within the neurodivergent and diverse learning space, but also working with our directors who deal with college prep and independent education consultants, IEC and athletes. And it's a joy. I enjoy our team. It's a small team. We are a mighty team. And it's again, it's. I brought my neurodivergent self into my interview and my, my. The founder, Matt McGee, he loved it and just was like, yes, let's celebrate this. Let's make a space for how you can operate. Right? And. And that's how he approaches teaching our educators to really, our educational philosophy is about we want to meet the child where the child is at, and we want to create systems and educate in a way that helps people thrive and make their brain work how it works. When you try to do the opposite, it doesn't work. Right. Our brains work the way they work. So let's figure out how to make it work in an efficient and productive way.

[A]

Before we dive back in. A quick reminder, your brain is not disordered. The problem is no one ever gave you its manual. But I can and I will. Your ADHD brain is a. Okay. Academy is my step by step patented program to help you figure it all out. Click the link in the first line of this episode's description to learn more or book a discovery call. Now let's get back to the show. So what does that role actually look like in day to day practice? Like what exactly do you do?

[B]

Yeah, so a lot of phone calls. I'm always, I'm jumping on calls, doing a lot of discovery calls, explaining to people what we do and who I am and then hearing from others as to like, okay, well this is what our org does and this, these are the gaps and this is what we're looking for. And then a little bit of law in that I get to put together some MOUs memorandums of understanding and, and building those partnerships. But then also a lot of content. Right. Because I think that there's so much that can happen through the education of what we are and how we practice and what we're about. And so that's been really fun because I love making content, I love podcasting, I love blogging, all of that good jazz. So doing a lot of the content and then, you know, a lot of strategy, business, operational stuff. Right. Like what are the things that are going to help us get to the next level? So it's A little bit of this, a little bit of that. But together, I think it touches the different parts of my brain that light up whenever I like. I'm passionate about that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense because it's not the same thing every single day. So MRM's tagline is reimagining education for all learners. What does that mean, especially to you? Right, as a neurodivergent leader?

[B]

Oh, yeah. So it's about figuring out what are the traditional school spaces and school districts missing and how they could collaborate with organizations like us. You know, when. When parents identify, you know, what my kid does need an I, how do they go about that? There's so much lack of knowledge on the understanding of that. So being able to come to us, do a free consultation, get assigned an educator that has done this, that has spent years doing this, at least 10, 12 years, and can lead them through the process so that their kid can finally get the support and the resources and the accommodations that they need. So it's a servicing piece of it. It's also, you know, helping school districts understand, you know, how do we make inclusion work in the classroom? Some schools are like, let's put those kids to the side. Right? Is that work? Does that work? Probably not. Right. Like, let's do what integration looks like. But you have to be very thoughtful and very strategic about that because again, kids have different needs, and we want to make sure the teachers are supported, they have the trainings, but then also the kids understand how to operate with each other. Right. Because kids are going to be kids. Right. And so it's really important that we educate the educators and the leaders within the school system to do what they need to do to support, because more and more kids are going to be diagnosed as autistic. This isn't going away. Right. There's, like, I think about 70 million people in the United States that are autistic, and I think that that number's on the low side. So we need to do better.

[A]

Do you think that educators are finally starting to see that having autism, having adhd, being neur, neurodivergent, maybe dyslexia, you know, learning challenges, that maybe that does not mean that the child is actually lacking in something, but they're strong in other things. It doesn't mean that the brain is disordered or defective. It's just different.

[B]

Oh, that's a great question. Personally, I do not think that all educators are there. I think some who are touched by it in their personal life are more likely to think that way. Right. Because when your nephew or when your child is on the spectrum, then you look at it a lot different than looking at it of, oh, that's Tommy in the classroom. Right. And that's sad that human beings only operate that way, like only when we go through it do we then develop a sense of empathy and understanding. But, you know, if that's what it takes, and that's what it takes for now, I would say that because most people operate through a neurotypical lens, which is we need to march this way, then if you don't march this way, then they do see that as different and they do see that difference as something they have to make space for. It's an inconvenience and it's a. Oh, it's an extra thing. And I get where someone could think that way because again, are our teachers paid adequately in this country? No. Are our teachers given enough mental health support for what they do? No, they are not. So you're asking someone who's overtaxed and it's getting worse. Exactly.

[A]

Way worse.

[B]

Most of my life I was in a classroom of at least 30 to 38 kids in the classroom. Right. That's too much. It's too much. We need to create spaces where teachers can thrive much less than demand upon them to be more proactive and more progressive. It doesn't work. We have to support the Build foundation for you to build up on top of it. We can't have a crack foundation and say, hey, do better. That's not fair to the educator.

[A]

Well, and it's not at all. If you have 40 kids in a classroom, you're just trying to keep everybody together and sane and get through the day. You don't have time to, you know, pull this child out for they're brilliant on this and try to weave them into the curriculum and with this child. And it's. You're just trying to get through the day. And I just feel like we don't really care about educating kids, you know, truly educating them.

[B]

Yeah, no, not in this, not in this country. But this is where organizations like mrm, if parents can afford and, or utilize governmental funding to support that one on one support that their kid really needs. Because most kids do need one on one support in some way or form. Even if it's not academic. It may be executive functioning. It may be helping them to learn the skills that's going to help them be successful in college because it's a skill to be able to understand. How do you calendar yourself? How do you Project manage. Kids don't know that until you teach them that. Right. So, you know, I think that we need to reassess. And unfortunately, in this climate in the country, I don't know how. How much educators and systems are going to lend for this, but we. We have to start the conversation. And we. And for some schools that are able to say, no, no, no, this is. This is important to us. We work right. And we. And we keep pushing, but this is definitely a marathon, not a sprint.

[A]

So that's exactly what MRM does. It fills in that gap where teachers are overwhelmed, administrations. They don't. They're forced to offer these alternatives and options to kids. Right. These accommodations.

[B]

Accommodations, yeah.

[A]

They're forced to do that. But just from personal experience, my son had a 504. It meant nothing. They did nothing differently. I mean, it was even to the point. And he was in a very small private school. His biggest problem was they were so disorganized. And so there was nowhere for him to go, no online portal, nothing where he could see. Okay, what's due when, literally. And he was begging for that because again, I'm sure my son is on the spectrum and he needs that structure.

[B]

That structure, yeah. Oh, gosh. Oh, my God.

[A]

So he ended up leaving that school his senior year of high school, and he went back to the Catholic school. Catholic high school that he had gone to most of his elementary education and then junior high, he was out for one year, but he went back there because they provided so much structure. And then he killed it, you know.

[B]

Oh, beautiful.

[A]

So it was literally that he didn't know what was going on because they were such a disorganized mess. So I wish we would have had. Mrm. Wait, did I get the.

[B]

Yeah, MRM education.

[A]

Yeah, MRM education. Because it was that gap. And I remember, you know, we tried a couple tutors here, a couple tutors there, but. But they didn't really get it either. You know, it was basically. They were just teaching him the same system that the school was.

[B]

Yeah, no, yeah. No.

[A]

Absolutely no understanding for a different brain.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so how do we, Natasha, design systems that actually support all types of learners? And is there one shift schools or parents could make right now that would just be more inclusive, that would help everybody other than, you know, changing the way we teach reading?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I would say it starts with understanding what's gone awry, what is the needs that. That individual child needs. And so from an educator, district perspective, that is a hard thing to get under. But ultimately, you know, if you can do an extensive amount of surveying with the teachers, with the students looking at the data points that are available. Then you could start to see, okay, yeah, we have X amount of kids that are struggling with reading comprom comprehension. We have X amount of kids that are not understanding, you know, how to something with executive functioning. This, this core issue, like figuring out what are the gaps. Because then once you can name it, you can solve it, right? And then you can say, okay, let's work with MRM education for this. Let's work on the, you know, and so first at the educator level, they have to be honest enough and they have to be willing to say this isn't working and then start to splice that out from a parent side also. Honesty, right? There's a lot of parents who are parents of autistic or, you know, neurospicy children who are like, oh no, no, no, that's just. Katie, is it though? Is it? Let's be honest, right? Because we're not, we're not trying to label our children to harm them or stigmatize them or other them, but we are trying to figure out what is the, the realm for where they live. Because it then once we do that, then we can understand and again, what are the things that help someone with dyslexia? What are the things that are, are more distracting. And so once we can be honest, then we can go and do the testing and the testing, you know, you can do it through your health care and then do a free educational consultation with like an org, like MRM education and then sit down and again, a needs assessment. What is working? What is not working? Where? What are the things that motivate them? What are the things that demotivate them? No one has ever ask me that as a child. What are the things that motivate me? Or what are the things that like simple things like that. Because that changes how you speak to a child, that changes how you give homework, that changes how you motivate to do supplemental work, right? Like you gotta understand the motivations, the demotivations and also the things that the child is curious about, right? Because what they're interested in, they're more likely to learn that if you incorporate that within the learning pathway. So it's, it's around understanding who you're teaching and why they want to learn and then building curriculum, building resources that funnel and support that, that interest word.

[A]

I think if we could teach to interest. But in order to do that, we're going to have to nix the whole School system. Because the school system insists on going wide instead of deep.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And how many of us, every single one of us, had learned stuff, we get into the test and then it's gone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Waste of life. We don't care about it. We never cared about it. We will never care about it, in my experience, you know, because I'm all about this. What do I do with my life? The platform that we teach to our women and, you know, who they are, how their brain works. And without fail, you can go back to your earliest years that you remember, and you were interested in that subject in some way. You know, maybe if you're a nuclear physicist, you're not, you know, but you've always had an interest.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And it started when you were, you know, very young. You were born like that.

[B]

Yeah. We gravitate to things. Each and every one of us have things that just make us come alive. And if we could incorporate that. And again, even if it had to just be supplemental reading, kids are more likely to do that if it's aligned with, hey, you pick your favorite person and you read four articles about it. And then you come and you do an oral, you know, oral presentation on that. And also helping provide different types of assessment. Some of us do better with speaking. Some of us do better with multiple choice. Some of us do, yeah. Changing, just slight changes is everything. Have you ever read the book the Slight Edge or no? No. It's an interesting book. Yeah. Because it talks about transformation and how transformation really happens with just the small things that you do. Right. People always say, oh, if you want to change something, it has to be a big change. If schools could do 1 to 3% change, it would be magnanimous. What it would look like a year from now. Right.

[A]

It's Natasha, Even if they just started by administering some sort of test with the kids, you figure out where they're brilliant. So every child knows, oh, this is my area, or that's my area. So if they do poorly in one area, they know that. Oh, but they've got this other area.

[B]

Exactly. Very empowered, I think.

[A]

Don't you think? So many kids go through school, they struggle in school, and they literally think they're not smart and they are the smartest kids around.

[B]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I was like, top of my class, and I felt like an idiot all the time because there were things that my mind always focused on the things that I wasn't good at instead of figuring out, wow, you're really innovative. Wow, you're really creative. Wow, you're really good at speaking. You're real, like. But I never focus on that and so much of my career. It's ironic the things I do. Well now, now I've been good at this since I was 6. This is what I've been. It's that I was told I need to be conventional, I need to do this. And. Yes, but I most likely wouldn't have gone to law school. I would have gone and focused on comms. I would have gone and done speaking things like. As opposed to the, the traditional stuff that just doesn't work. Yeah.

[A]

But what I always say, and I. Especially for women, having a law degree is so great.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Because it teaches you how to think differently.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you can apply it to any field.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So I, I don't practice law anymore, but I am so grateful that I had the opportunity to go to law school and to practice law at some point.

[B]

Absolutely. And what I. I mean, it's a hard thing, but, you know, I don't know if you feel this way, but most people I speak to go to law school say they, you know, the way that they spoke to you and you know how harsh and scrutinizing it was, it helped.

[A]

Socratic method, right?

[B]

Yeah. Where you had to just show up and so, like, you know, I never go into spaces thinking, like, I can't do anything because I know, like, I, I went through law school, I graduated, I can fly to the moon and back. Like, there's not one thing I can't do in this life. Like, let's go. Because, you know, it put. They put you through it. They. You really go through it. So, yeah, it is great training for dealing with. With tough, tough people in tough situations.

[A]

I agree. Okay. So I know you, like me, believe that ADHD can be a superpower. So I am curious, how has your ADHD brain shaped the kind of leader that you've become?

[B]

Oh, yes. I would say because ADHD has helped me have a wide variety of interests and passions. It has helped me want to do professional development on a broader, more holistic perspective. So I try to learn about sales, I try to learn about copywriting, I try to learn about people management. And so that continuous learning helps me be a better people manager. It helps me to try to work through how do I connect better with people, how do I present in a way that makes sense and resonates for people. And so it's the interest, variety that I have that makes me go double down on the learnings that I need. And that that in turn gets exemplified in the work that I do.

[A]

Makes perfect sense to me. So I know you have something to say about hyperfocus.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so I've seen that throughout my whole life. I would definitely spend eight to 10 hours working on poetry books. I've been writing poetry since I was 6. I would come write stories. I've also, you know, like I said, spent a lot of my childhood by myself, so, you know, creating my own schedule. I would say, okay, I'm going to eat breakfast at 8. I'm going to read from 9 to 11, then I'm gonna play Bart with Barbies. Like, and so I would hyper on focus on the, on my passion. So content, creativeness, drawing, poetry reading. Last year I read 240 books. That's my highest in a year. So.

[A]

Oh my gosh. I bow down. Wow. Yeah, yeah, do that. You must be a speed reader.

[B]

Yeah, through law school I learned speed reading. So then I can go. Right. And. And so, yeah, I would say it is good. But also, I don't know if you feel this way, but it. I have also felt like physically though, it can be bad, right. Because I can sit and work for nine hours straight, but then not get up and, you know, not eat or not pee and. And so. And then also, you know, that's really bad for your lymphatic system to just sit all day. And so I would say, mind wise, it has been the glory and the business, my ability to be able to do all the things that I do in a day. But physically, I feel like I'm constantly having to counter that because it doesn't feel good to not move because I'm so, you know, cerebrally charged.

[A]

I totally get that. What do you do? Like, what. So we have to set up boundaries then, right? So what boundaries have you set up so you don't completely burn out? Like, how do you. Because I know when we get into that hyper focus.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to get out, right?

[B]

No. Yeah. And I get very annoyed if anyone, like, disrupts.

[A]

Yeah. Ask you a question. Like, where is this?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely not. Talk to somebody else.

[A]

I just ignore it.

[B]

Oh, do you?

[A]

Nice.

[B]

I like. I'm Virginia.

[A]

Come right over here. You know, and then I'm like, oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah. So my son is a walking, talking disruptor. I love it because children don't. They don't care. Right. They don't care what you need or want. It's all about them. They're small, cute vampires. So I love it though, because I'm like, oh, yes, mother first. So when he's like, mommy, Mommy, come here, I have to show you something. Which is, you know, nothingness. But I love it because I'm like, yes, kj, my love, my heart. Yes. So he is the first. Like, he breaks the pattern for me, which is hard, but I go with it. Then I live and die by calendar blocking. So now I just put in like lunch break walk, drink water, because I. If I don't, then I won't.

[A]

You can only do that because of your brilliant autistic brain.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I would never follow that.

[B]

Oh, injury. Interesting.

[A]

Oh, that is. That is Autism 101.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Being willing to follow those structures. Yeah, for me it's like, well, if I calendar that, I don't know if I'm gonna feel like doing it when the time comes.

[B]

Gotcha. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So my other side of the brain's like, follow the rule. This is the rule. You set the rules.

[A]

Ah, no, see, I'm more of a rule breaker in that way.

[B]

Okay. I love a good rule. Yeah. Oh gosh, I love a good rule.

[A]

So I'm just trying to think of like boundaries. I have definitely learned how to break the hyper focus. I'm really not the kind of per. I mean, I can go nine hours, I can do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But. And I think part of it is getting older. Like, I'm sorry, I cannot say I'm just not going to go to the bathroom.

[B]

I mean, it's. Yeah, you gotta get up and go.

[A]

Oh, you know, it's not. And so that helps.

[B]

And.

[A]

Oh, you know what actually has made a big difference for me? I don't know what happened, but before I was pregnant, I would if I didn't drink water by 10 o' clock I had a headache. But something happened after I got pregnant with my first child and I just. Yeah, I could literally go till 4 o' clock and I'd have this huge headache and I'm like, why do I have a headache? Oh, it's because you haven't drank any water. A couple of years ago I started to drink a lot of water and that because you have to go up, you have to get up off your seat and go to the bathroom. So I'm, I'm literally processing this as we're talking. That is literally what has made the difference for me.

[B]

Nice. You know what do you have the water bottle that has like the times on it too?

[A]

Oh, I've tried all of that.

[B]

None of it works. No. Oh, no. Do you have that. Oh, yeah. It, that doesn't do it for me. My calendar, though, because my calendar will bring. And then I'm like, oh, God, gosh, I gotta follow.

[A]

Oh, my God. That is so good, though, that you can do that. You know, mine can ring until the cats come home. If I'm like, in something, I'm like, just stop it already.

[B]

Oh, no. You know what? Also content, right? I, I create a lot of content and I've done content around, like, walking is healthy. And then I'm like, oh, well, I told everybody else they'll walk. I gotta get.

[A]

So true.

[B]

I gotta. Wait a minute.

[A]

I gotta be toddlers. Kids without shoes, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I, I, if I write about it, if I talk about it, I'm like, you cannot be a hypocrite.

[B]

You got to do this. Yeah, exactly. So that content driven behaviors will.

[A]

But it's also awareness, right? It's that I think I literally went through decades of my life not being aware of these things and looking at other people and literally thinking, oh, my God, you were so lazy. Why are you getting up already? You don't need a break, you know, because I'd be so hyper focused, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And it's hard for us to start. So once I start, there's no way I can stop because I'm not going to be able to start again.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so before I let you go, Natasha, what is your number one ADHD workaround?

[B]

You know, I'm. No, with your book in the background, I'm going to go, I'm going to say education, right? At the end of the day, like, the more that I understand why my brain does what it does and what are the things driving my behavior, the more that I can process it, the more that I can pay attention to it, the more that I can then figure out how to make it work. And when the things I'm doing is actually not serving me, I can educate myself to learn how to do better, Right? And I've also stopped trying to blame myself and be kinder to myself again. I grew up culturally. Jamaican culture is a bit rough and tough, you know, and your feelings, who cares? Right now we have emotion posters in our house, right? So we're all about, about our feelings. My son, mommy, I'm feeling sad. Mommy, I'm happy. Like, so he's all about naming his feelings. And I didn't, I didn't have the even the option to do that. And so I feel very, very grateful to have a household that My son knows we are all for our feelings. So I try to name my things before I would lash out or be like, now I'd, like, tell my husband, you know, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I. I feel like I need a break. So education has actually been the breaking out of figuring out how I can best be my. My autistic and ADHD in a way that works in a world that celebrates and doesn't celebrate that at all times, because I can't do better unless I know better. And so that.

[A]

That's absolutely. So I'm curious. Your husband, is he really good about feelings?

[B]

Not at all. Oh, he got it all.

[A]

He's a most important parent. Right. Because same. Same sex. So he needs to be the one that gets really good on his feelings. And then, you know, I know it's.

[B]

Ironic, you know, but you. You marry your. Your who. You grow. My dad was very much not. And I guess I'm used to that. But it's interesting because I explained to people, like, with kj, that's also how I knew something was also different with me, because whenever I would hold him or be near him. Do you remember Pop Rocks? Those candies were. Yes. I feel that every time with kj, I feel very alive. And then I was starting to realize I feel very dead and very, like, darkness without him. And I said, oh, that's an interesting. Like, why do I feel alive with this one person? And I just. It feels very much like masking and not with others. And I realize that. That I feel very connected with kj. Like, I can. I feel like we're very tapped in. I can know what he wants to eat. I can. Like, there's this, like, a. An interesting intuition and tethering that I have with him that I just. I don't feel that with others. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I love that. And part of it, too, though, I think, is he's your people, right? So you can be exactly who you are at all, and he's gonna love you anyway.

[B]

Exactly. That's what I love the most about motherhood. And I said that in content before that, like, he's the only person who just wants the totality of me. I don't have to be a certain version of me for him. He wants all of Mommy. And that feels so like God, like, I've never felt that before. Because other people, you know, you people love you, but it can either be transactional or it's a version of you that they love. But him, he just wants Mommy, right? He can. He'll take sad Mommy, he'll take happy Mommy, he'll take confused Mommy, but he just wants Mommy. And that total love is. Is. I feel, like, not really worthy of it, but I'm so grateful for it because I'm like, oh, gosh, I can finally just be me. I never have to mask. I can just be me. And he sees me and I see him, and it's like the truest love. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I love that. And you're doing the exact same thing for him.

[B]

Yeah. And so. And so. Yeah. So much of my neurodivergent journey is like, I'm trying to create routines and habits. It's because I can't. It's not what I say to him. It's what he sees me do. And so if I don't get up and be. If I don't, you know, cook and eat, if I don't do the things, I can never expect that of him. So I. I have to get up and do it because I need him to do it in his life. Yeah.

[A]

I think kids make life so much better. Definitely just my opinion, you know, unfortunately, I only have two, but. Okay.

[B]

I know they love you, though. I know they can't.

[A]

The only time I ever actually listened to what my husband, and it's the biggest regret of my life. I tell him that every day. We should have had three. It's like, are you kidding? But then, you know, I'm the one with, you know, I'd want three dogs and three. You know, it's never enough. So, Natasha, are you working on something that you want to tell us about? Where can people find you if they want to know more about you and what you do? All of it.

[B]

Yeah. So definitely visit mrmeducation.com request a consultation, even if you're like, I don't know what, but I might. Might need help, go ahead and do that. And then I'll check out our swellcast podcast. I don't know if you're familiar with swellcast, but it's micro podcasting. And we launched our MRM channel on there, and it. And we pose different questions, neurodivergent questions, questions about athletes, questions about college prep. So it's a really fun space to be able to just engage that. We would love people to go to swellcast.com mrm and. And really enjoy the conversations every week.

[A]

That sounds great. Will you be sure to give me that link? Yeah, yeah. So that we can get it in the show notes with all of the other ones.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[A]

Wonderful. So, Natasha, thank you so much for spending time with us here today. It was such a pleasure to meet you and hear your story.

[B]

Yes, thank you.

[A]

So that's what I have for you for this week. If you like this episode with Natasha, please let us know by leaving a review. Our goal is to change the conversation around adhd, helping as many women as we possibly can learn how their ADHD brains work so that they too may discover their amazing strengths. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you here next week. You've been listening to the ADHD for Smart Smartass Women podcast. I'm your host, Tracy Otsuka. Join us at ADHD for smartwomen.com where you can find more information on my new book, ADHD for Smartass Women and my Patented you'd ADHD Brain is a OK system to help you get unstuck and fall in love with your brilliant brain. ADHD is not the problem. The way we've been told to manage it is. If you're tired of feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or like you're not living up to your potential, I want to help my youy ADHD Brain is a OK is a step by step patented program that actually works for ADHD brains like ours. No more forcing yourself into ordinary brain systems that just don't fit it. If you're ready to thrive, find the link in the first line of this episode's description. Your brain is brilliant. Let me prove it to you.