B (4:05)

Yes. Perfect. Thank you so much for having me, Tracy. I'm so glad to be here today.

A (4:09)

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for the book club that you did for my community when my book came out. I really, really appreciate that.

B (4:19)

Oh, it was so fun. I had got so many good nuggets from your book. So I look forward to hearing what your community has to say about mine.

A (4:26)

Yeah, absolutely. So I always want to talk about our guests. ADHD diagnoses first. And yours was actually quite rare, I think, for a young girl. You were only five years old and you were diagnosed. So talk to us about that. What happened?

B (4:46)

Yeah, and that was the mid-80s. So I'm 44. I was born in 1981, so it was super. I consider myself an ADHD unicorn, which I hope it's not the case for long. You know, I hope that, you know, the next generation, our daughters, that that's not the case, that they get the help they right away. But for me, yeah, so it was a teacher saw it in my sister.

A (5:06)

Older sister.

B (5:07)

My older sister, yeah, my sister was three years older. I really liked school. I was a gold star chaser. And so I could have easily gone under the radar because I'm not convinced I would have done poorly in school had I not. My sister was more, you know, I think physically hyperactive. And then she was also a talker. And that teacher had had experience, personal experience. I think she had had a child who had gotten diagnosed. So it was that well informed teacher had said something to my mom and said, you know, I don't think this child is trying to get in trouble. I think, you know, something else is going on. And so my mom had her privately tested. And then, and I don't know what if she saw signs in me then or if it was just kind of like. Well, or maybe the psychologist encouraged her to get both of us tested. But I was tested as well going into kindergarten. So. Yeah, so growing up, I. So I took medicine, you know, all growing up and knew nobody like me. I mean, my and my sister took it too, but we were very different. You know, I can remember, like, going to the nurse to take my medicine at seasons when I had to do that. And it was like all the little boys, and it was all the little boys that got in trouble. And I was like the little girl who had straight A's and was like the teacher's pet, and I was taking medicine. That was always kind of weird. Like, I didn't know, but I'm thankful that I had had because I grew up believing that I could do anything and that I could, you know, it wasn't an impairment in terms of academics.

A (6:26)

How did that work, though? Because at that time, like you said, you were in the nurse's office with all of the little boys who were constantly in trouble. And it sounds like the worst thing that you and your sister ever did was you talked too much, right?

B (6:42)

I would say I did get the woman. I can remember my 5th grade PE teacher used to call me the mouth of the cell, because it's like, as a child, you don't remember being loud, but I was. I've always been loud. Being able to, like, know that I was and talked a lot. So I was kind of, like, I just kind of trusted that I needed this thing. My mom was like, you need your medicine. And I also knew, especially as I got older, like, when academics got more challenging, like, I took a challenging course load and I took all the AP classes and stuff, that homework would get a lot harder. So, like, once my medicine would wear off, like, I always. I can remember in high school, like, coming home, not doing a sport. That was, like, right after school, because I always needed to come home and do my homework and then kind of do something later. So there were things like that that I can remember it being different, and I can remember, like, thinking it was funny, like, on days when I forgot my medicine. So I knew there was a big difference in my cognitive abilities on days when I didn't take my medicine. So I knew that, and I knew, like, that my focus. But because it was kind of early on, you know, I never knew what it was like before without medicine. So then, like, in college, I started asking more questions and, like, do I really need this? And, you know, I had, like, a boyfriend who was like, medicine is dumb and nobody needs it. Have you exercise enough? And so I kind of rebelled at different seasons and then kind of in my college and even, like, early 20s kind of did more of that, trying to understand myself, do I really need this? And how does it impact my life if I don't take the medicine? But that was still kind of always about the medicine. It wasn't really until I became a mom that I kind of understood the other ramifications, because even the other implications that had in my life, like my finances and, you know, my eating habits and my drinking habits and my driving habits, like, you know, all these other things that it impacted. I. I did not understand that all of that was adhd, too.

A (8:25)

So going back to when you were a child, were you embarrassed about the adhd, or did you somehow have a mom who was like, yeah, take your meds, but you're just great exactly the way you are?

B (8:39)

I wouldn't say that it was. That there was something different. There was some shame, I think, in, like, this is different about me. This is this quirky thing. And I can remember I had this one. There was this one boy in high school who would always be like, amy, did you take your meds today? Did you take your meds? He would, like, tease me about it because he just thought it was funny, but. But thankfully, I did. I don't have a ton of those stories. You know, most people just thought it was kind of amusing, but I didn't think, oh, this is a positive thing. I still thought that, like, this is the thing that's gonna help me follow the straight and narrow path. I didn't understand. There are all these amazing things about your brain that you need to know, and if you're clued in on, it's gonna help you be your most successful. My goal was still, like, follow the path, do the thing. Get the good SAT score, take all the APs, get into the good college. And so then it was like, at a certain point, it hit the wall and was like, oh, wait, that's not really what I want. Just in terms of, like, get a job and the corporate ladder and, like, all those kind of things. Like, I didn't really understand that I could still be really successful. And it maybe it didn't look like that and maybe think outside the box a little bit, because I think if there were some things I knew about my brain, both in terms of my potential and in terms of, like, environment and things that would help me be successful, I didn't understand those things and.

A (10:01)

That the Medication might be masking some of those strengths that you had or have.

B (10:08)

I think it was kind of like just enough. I think for a long time I thought, oh, medicine is handling it. Like, that's the thing, and it's handling it. But I didn't understand. I think especially as life got more complicated and we all know there's an HD wall where it's like, when life gets certain, more and more complicated, you struggle. And I do think, looking back, I. I can see how my ADHD showed up in relationships and insecurity. But I think for me, the lie that I believed early on was, well, if I look a certain way, and I think this was kind of tied to my neurodivergence that, like, well, if I'm skinny enough and smart enough and, like, make enough money, then, like, I'm gonna fit in. And instead of like, I wasn't born to fit in, my brain is wired differently. And that's for really good reason. Like, I bring a unique perspective to the world. And the. The goal was never to, like, assimilate and to be just like everyone else. And so that I wish I had understood as a child. Yeah.

A (11:04)

That there was something really special, that other side. Whereas it sounds like, okay, take your medication, be a good girl, do all the things you're supposed to do, but you really weren't 100% being Amy.

B (11:17)

Exactly. And there were things, like, I can remember, like, even in high school, there was this. I took this class, like, I was very, like, goal oriented, like, you know, take all the APs and, you know, on that track. And I got into a good college, you know, like, whatever. But I took this one class, and it was interior design in high school. And the teacher was, like, such a dork, like, from then. I mean, you know, you were like, in high school, and you're like, that teacher is just not. Not cool. Like, she was like Tammy Faye Baker makeup and like these, like, big moo moo. It was just like, as a high school, you're like, I don't. That she's not cool. But the class, I loved the class. And I can remember we made these little doll houses and we had to pick up fabric and all these things. But I was never. And especially now as a mom raising three neurodivergent kids, I'm like, I want to be so clued into the things that they're interested in because that's. Those are those gems, you know, yes, we need novelty. Yes, we get bored easily. But there, I. I believe there are things that you know, I can look back on my life coming that, you know, have always been true. That kind of pop up. And it was like one of those things. But I just, I didn't know that, like, that was an option. Like, I could like to be creative in that there could be these, you know, things. So I feel like I was so focused on just fitting in that I didn't know or have that understanding of like looking for the gifts, the kind of the outliers. Because the thing is the thing, a lot of us, we don't just have one. It's not always clear. It's kind of like we have these different outliers. And then like, how do you weave those together into a way that is engaging and uses your gifts and you can serve others.

A (12:50)

Did you grow up in a family where there were certain careers that were the right career? And so anything that really involved a lot of creativity, that. That just wasn't where you were going to go because it doesn't make as much money.

B (13:04)

My sister was. She got a BFA and she majored in drama. And that was always kind of like, my parents like supported her, but not like it was kind of like, else is it gonna go, you know, like, yeah. And they wished I knew. And she was three years old to me, so like, I knew they wish she'd gone to a state university. I wish they knew she hadn't gotten to bfa. And it was like they were always like, how's she gonna make money? And so I was more the kid. And I think this is a common dynamic in a lot of neurodivergent families. She was more the one with the very big emotions outward. I was more the be easy kid. So I was kind of like, it wasn't as much of projected on me as it was me observing and like, okay, I'm gonna be easy. You know, I'm gonna get into the college, I'm gonna. I'm gonna get to the college. I'm gonna do this thing that sounds good. And. And yeah. So I don't know if it. Honestly, I don't think I had a big vision. I wish I had a bigger vision for myself career wise, because I was like a rock star in high school in terms of academics and be the best. But I didn't have a big vision for a career in terms of. I was like, I'm going to be a mom and I want to be a great mom. And I think that was why being a mom was such a hard transition, because I was like, I actually I don't really love this. Like, I need more challenge and I need more structure. I kind of thought I'd marry someone and they'd figure it all out, like, the finances and the money and all that stuff. Yep.

A (14:37)

So you were diagnosed with adhd at age 5. How did that diagnosis. And just kind of knowing that, you know, all through your childhood, your teen years, your early adult years shape the way that you see yourself as a mom now. So I'm curious, did having that label so young give you more self awareness as an adult, or do you feel like it came with a stigma that you had to unlearn?

B (15:06)

I'm not afraid of the label. I think I want my kids to have it, like, unpacked, like, to understand what that means. And it's not like, because it was more like, okay, you take medicine. Like, don't tell anybody. Like, it's not. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't public where I'm like, it was like a bad thing. Instead of like, this is how your brain is wired. Your brain is wired different. And we talk, I would say I taught me all my kids know that I talk about HD whenever. So we have some experience. And our 80, they're reading a book and ADHD pops up. Like, they're always like, oh, mom, adhd. Like, they know that's what I do, what I talk about. But we talk more about, like, our brains, you know, like how our brains are wired and things that our brains need and. And also, like, we're all a little different, so it's not always exactly the same. So I'm totally okay with them knowing that. But I also. It's more of like, without the stigma that it's not like this bad, secret thing, it's just how they're wired and how we're wired. And there's information with that that we need to understand. And if you understand that information, it'll help you make better decisions, help you take better care of yourself. So. And I think it's also the same thing is different, like, with, with the medicine, because I think a lot of people have a lot of apprehension and now a lot of people have different, different stories about me because I was medicated as a child. Like, I'm. I'm thankful that my parents did that because I think, you know, I talk to a lot of women who have, who wish, or people who wish their parents had made that, that decision or wish they'd had that opportunity when they were younger.

A (16:28)

The medication worked for you though, right?

B (16:30)

Right. It worked for me, it helped me. Right.

A (16:33)

So did you expect that motherhood would be different for you because of adhd? Were you prepared at all for that?

B (16:42)

Not at all, like 0%. So my oldest is 14. They're 14, 10 and 6. So they're all four years apart. So I was just shy of 30 when I had my first child. And so I was working full. I worked full time, like his first couple years. And I kind of thought that, I think also in my dream world, I mean, my husband is an engineer, he makes a good living, but he doesn't. Especially in America today, it's like we kind of need to have two incomes, you know, and so we were. It was never in a place where he made so much, but I just thought that I was just going to be this great stay at home mom and that was going to like, kind of fulfill all my buckets. And I do kind of like domestic stuff. You know, I like finding a new recipe and, you know, I like decorating my home and. But I need more challenge and I need breaks for my kids. And a lot of those things were really hard for me to accept that self awareness because it's like you don't know it's all hypothetical until you do it.

A (17:43)

Talk more about that because it sounds like there's some guilt around it, which I think is common.

B (17:51)

I think I've gotten through it. But I think for a lot of the women that I talk to, that's why I'm like very open about saying those things. Because I think for a long time there was so much guilt in admitting it, you know, And I think that. And one of the things I think is so important for ADHD brains is, you know, our interests matter. And I believe that we can make ourselves do boring things, but only so many. So if your life, you have to be intentional about what boring things you're taking on. And there's a lot of things that we don't know. Like, I know you're a huge fan of Dr. Hallowell. He has this three circles when it's like our things we're good at, things we like to do and things we can make money doing. A lot of times you don't know if you're gonna like something until you try it, until you do it. And so it's like, I talk to moms all the time. It's like that was to say about homeschooling. I'm like, oh, that's a great, great idea to like homeschool your kids. And then you dry it And I'm like, I absolutely hate this. So, like, this is not a great fit. So I can make myself do a certain amount of things that I hate. But so I think especially because not everyone's wired that way in terms of that deep need for interest and challenge. So I think there's a lot of moms. Like, I can remember when I was in that stage, it's like, you're talking to other moms and you're like, yeah, it's boring having a baby, but it's different. But boredom hits different when you have adhd. And that was. What if people don't get that and have that same struggle? They can't relate. And it feels very alienating. So, like, why this is so hard. Yeah, it's hard for you, but it's. But you can do it. But I'm like. But I. You get, you know, all the things that comes with it. And so, like, for me, a lot of things when I'm bored, you know, I struggled a long time with, like, overeating or over drinking or over, like, shopping, like, some of the. Those habits that come up that I would struggle with for so long, which are really rooted in my adhd. My need for stimulation flare up when I'm bored. And so if I don't have challenge and interest, then it's like, I'm struggling. But it's not. Like you come in my house and, you know, everything's a disaster. But I have these deep struggles. I don't have the level of stimulation that my brain needs. It took me a while to really admit it and, like, that's okay. It's just how my brain is wired.

A (20:08)

Did you go through a period of. Because I know how that is. Where, you know, you've got playgroups and all these moms and all these kids running around, and you're looking at these moms that are your friends, and they're all doing just fine. They just love it. And you're sitting here like you love your kids. That there's no question about that, but it's just not enough. And you're antsy. You know, you've always gotta be doing something else. Did you go through a period where you were like, well, what's wrong with me? And I'm just not as good of a parent? Or did you ever have that thought?

B (20:42)

One revelation that was. And I know not every ADHD woman is wired this way, but, like, I'm an enneagram too, with a hard. A big three wing. Have an entrepreneur. I like to help People. But I really have always had these big, ambitious business goals. And so that was the thing of, like, realizing that all the moms weren't thinking about all these business things or, like, wanting having these big goals. And so I think it took me a long time, so then I would compare myself to these things that they were doing in terms of. Because they didn't. Weren't spending all this brain energy or then, you know, trying to start new businesses or, like, tinkering in these ways that I felt compelled to do. They had time to do these other things. You know, they were doing these play dates, and just the ways that their days could function just never seemed to work for me. So, like, they get up, get out of the house, go to a play date, come back, have nap time, like, clean the house. It's just like, that kind of basic routine was like, so I just couldn't operate. I had all these other things I wanted to be doing. And so I'm like, I need. It took me a while to be like, I just need to do life differently. And that way isn't the right way. Even though it seemed like, like, that was the way most of the moms were doing it. I think what was a harder. What I did have more guilt of is letting go of the homeschool piece, because I think I did try to homeschool, especially before COVID and it felt like, you know, I was in these ADHD mom groups and all these ad on Facebook, and they're all like, you gotta homeschool. That's the only thing our kids need. Everything else. And I'm like, I'm drowning. Like, this was this. It was just too much, you know? And so that's why I'm always quick to tell moms of adhd, too. I'm like, that might not be for you. And that's okay. If you're struggling, struggling, and you're drowning, that's never the best thing for your kids, for your kids, even if they have adhd. But I think that was hard. A harder one for me to admit of, like, and I need breaks from my kids. I need mental stimulation, and I can think through things and be a good, strategic mom. But I don't think, well, when I'm in mom mode, like, when my kids. Because I also have three neurodivergent kids who talk a lot. It's very rarely quiet. Yeah, all three of my kids have adhd, so two of them especially have, like, talk all the time. Their emotions, you know, we have a lot of big emotions so, like, when I'm in mom mode, like, I'm in parent mode, it's really hard for me to, like, be in strategic thinking mode about, like, can we go to this party on Saturday? Or should we sign up for tennis lessons? Or any of that. Like, to think. So I need time away both to, like, pursue my challenges and to, like, solve the problems and make the decisions. And so I think that was harder for me to admit.

A (23:22)

So, Amy, you sound a lot like me in that. I know there are a lot of moms who have all this guilt about the fact that they're not like the other moms. I never felt that way. I always felt like I was a little bit out of the group. I was the one who did a lot of the work, threw a lot of the parties, did a lot of the scheduling, I think, because I was so bored and I always worked on the side. But I was a real estate broker, and so I could pretty much weave it around their schedule. And I also had a husband who had gotten out of executive management and went back into sales because he wanted to be there as well. We had a separate space, a barn, we call it. It's really just part of our house. We always had some help, but I always felt different. But I also knew I didn't want to be like that. As great as these women were, that was not my thing. And I was always going to be working. I was always going to be creating and doing something different. And it sounds like I can't even imagine choosing homeschooling because I knew enough about myself. Oh, my God. I'd have to be able to tell my kids what to do. Like, I'd have to be their executive function 24 7. I can't even imagine ever considering that. But up until that, it sounds like you and I were actually pretty similar. Like, you didn't really feel guilt. You just knew, this is what I need, and this makes me a better mom.

B (24:54)

I think part of it was, like, learning to lean into it, because I feel like when I was realizing some of these things, it was kind of early on in motherhood. And then I think the more it was like, okay, I can actually say this out loud out. I can actually, like, own this. And I think especially as I've had more kids and be able to, like, clarify my expectations, because especially with three kids, I'm like, I can only focus on, like, what matters to them, you know? And I can't worry about, like, I do not have the space to worry about what the PTA Moms think of, think about me or. But I can try to show up if like something matters to them than trying to like be on top of that. But yeah, I think it was like definitely an ongoing and I think doing this work of being like being an advocate for ADHD moms and it's like kind of, kind of, that was kind of how I started. It's like the more I started talking about this on the Internet because there weren't a lot of women around me and there still are in my real life a lot of women. And now because of my, you know, social media presence that people like for example, on Sunday I had a lovely mom who I'd met and I, you know, had her volunteered with, with her son in Sunday school come up and was like, I just love seeing your content and it's so helpful and blah blah blah. And so now I get some of that. But in my just like normal like my kids, friends, moms, like there's not a lot of people that do are doing life like me that are like, you know, maybe not working full time but have these big business goals and they're still active parents and like, you know, kind of like not a full time working mom and also not a full time stay at home mom. So anyways, but when I started talking about it on social media, I think over time it was like I kind of started as. It was like something I kind of weaved in and then as like the louder I got about it, I just got so much more encouragement. People are like, nobody is talking about this but there are so many people that relate and it build my community. It's like I know that I'm not alone and I know how I'm designed is really unique and good. So I think over time I've gotten more confident.

A (26:46)

Do you have friends that are like you like in real life friends? Obviously you have friends probably all over the world that are more like you. But I'm just curious because I think that's kind of hard too. Always feeling that you're the odd one out, you're the different one, you're. I'm curious.

B (27:05)

In our street there's a couple moms that like identify with ADHDs. In my closest girlfriends, I would say they wouldn't identify as ADHD and they maybe aren't as, as out of the box thinkers as me, but they're very supportive and I would say they are very self aware. One of the things that I talk to moms too is I think as you get more you're doing less masking as you get more authentic. You know, it's kind of like you're trying. You kind of start like putting these little feelers out there, and then you find spaces where you feel safe to be yourself. I feel like I have spaces where I feel safe to be myself. I don't need a mask, but I don't necessarily, like, there aren't. Don't necessarily relate to everything that I struggle with or how I show up or how my kids show up in the world. But I definitely feel very. I found places where I feel very safe to be myself and be fully myself and where I don't feel like I need to mask. And I think that's so important. And I think part of that, I think that kind of comes from when you have spaces where you can, like, you know, I have an online community with ADHD moms. I feel like having that over time, having spaces where I can connect with other ADHD moms, it helps build those muscles, helps you get to be more authentic and feel like, okay, this is what this feels like to feel like I can actually express myself. And so I think that has come with time.

A (28:18)

Let's talk about your book, Master the Mundane. I love these stories. So I want to know, how did it come about in terms of, you know, the publisher and did they approach you or did you tell us the story?

B (28:32)

Yes. Well, it was really fun. And like I said before, with hd, you never quite know how things are going to go until you try them. And so writing a book is a big risk because I was like, I didn't know how to. How I would like the process. Yeah, I mean, it's a long process, too. About three and a half years ago, I launched my course in community, which is called Master the Mundane. So much of the resources out there are either, like, parenting with ADHD or kind of like managing yourself with adhd, but, like, there wasn't anything that was like, all encompassing. And then so like, there's the home management kind of mental load piece, and then there's the. You're also parenting neurodivergent kids and then managing your own adhd. Because each of these things, these little books, it's like, there's so many books where it's like all the things, here's the 20 things you need to be doing to manage your ADHD and here's the 20 things you need to do to support your kids. And, you know, and then, and then they're trying to figure out, like, the ADHD hacks for management. But I was like, but, but we need a plan that's like all, we can't do all these things. Like, it's too, it's too much. And so I needed a way to like manage my own life and create a life where it's like I was meeting these different needs in a sustainable way and designing a life that worked for me where I didn't feel like I was failing my kids. Parenting neurodivergent kids is kind of like a full time job in itself. So it's like, how do all these pieces fit? And so I kind of scratched all my expectations of myself and figured out how to design a life where they all fit. And then I turned that into a course to really lead women through this process. And so, so I've been doing this for several years and then kind of refined it so that it wasn't so overwhelming because I think that's what people. Our tendency as women with ADHD is to want it to be a Rubik's Cube. We want to find, we want to try to have one solution that solves everything because that's really challenging and interesting. And so we overcomplicate things and then that doesn't work. And so then we blow up our life and then try a whole new system. And so I kind of of created this, especially if for a mom who's starting that's like in ADHD burnout, really mentally overwhelmed, that all these things feel like they need to get taken care of. They're like, okay, I know I need to declutter and I know I need to get my kids off screens and I know I need a better discipline strategy. And I know, like, like, let's just take it down. Not like, let's just focus on creating structure and routine in your life. Back to your question of what happened to me. So I created the course, created the community, and then they came to me. I built. At the time, I was about, about 80,000 Ben stricken followers when they approached me about a book deal. And I was not expecting it. It was kind of one of those things I'd always thought about, like down the road, like, I'd love to write a book, but it wasn't like, oh, I'm going to do that in the next year.

A (31:21)

Back up a second. So how did it come about? So they contacted you and said, you know, we see what you're doing and we want you to write a book about it.

B (31:31)

Wiley is my publisher and Josie Bass is like the imprint in the. Yeah. So he came to Me and he said I think you have a unique perspective. He's like, I don't know if you. At first he's like I want to pitch you to my team. I don't know if you, your following strong enough yet. They might want me to, to come back in six months. But they're like this perspective is unique. ADHD moms raising ADHD kids because there's a gap in the marketplace and so they yeah, approved me right off the bat.

A (32:03)

You didn't have to do a book proposal and all that.

B (32:05)

He gave me like a framework and was like I'm gonna pitch. I had to create the proposal for him to pitch but he was already wanted to pitch me. So he was like, I mean basically I guess in the book world al like they want to. If you have a following that's gonna make it so much easier because they know that you have this audience already and captive audience already. So they're like, they might wanna wait and for your audience to grow a little bit more. But, but my audience has grown. I'm at almost 180,000. I'm at over 180,000 followers on Instagram. So I've, I've grown a lot since then. But it's such a long process. I mean that was June or July 2024 was when I signed the contract.

A (32:51)

You don't need another planner or productivity hack. You need a system that works for your brain. One that helps you stop second guessing and start trusting yourself. My patented six step program, your ADHD brain is a ok. Gives you the tools to work with your brain, not against it. So you can finally follow through on what truly matters to you. Click the link in the first line of this episode's description to learn more or book a discovery call. Now let's get back to the show.

B (33:27)

Well, that's not that bad.

A (33:29)

That's been about a year and then. And your pub date is when?

B (33:34)

September 10th. We're almost there. The process went fast and then once I had my final thing it when it so finally went in, I didn't have a ton of turnaround to kind of promote it which I'm glad for and not. I mean it's. I don't know, it's my only experience but it's been been a good process.

A (33:50)

Was writing it easy for you? I'm always curious about what's your writing process like? Because mine was so messed up.

B (33:57)

Well, I think because I already had the course, you know a lot of the content. Like I had a lot and I. And then I've been doing masterclasses, monthly masterclasses for my community for, you know, three years. So I had a ton of content to work with. I think at first I just kind of like, brain dumped. I think the hardest thing for me was getting big chunks of time in uninterrupted time. Because if I could just go into deep focus and like, forget everything else. I really enjoyed it, like being in the words and being in my head. And for me that's like deeply, deeply satisfying. And so I like the actual writing part, the hardest part was like the juggling. The life part. Yeah. So at first I kind of just got it all out of my head. And then. And it was way too long. And then we cut some. And in the editor, the first edit, I forget all the different names of all the edits. But that first phase, they, you know, were like, move this and move that. And so I'm glad to have done it collaboratively. And I don't know how people write a book without an editor because I think they very much made it better. I mean, at first, that first sentence, I was like, annoyed because I was like, oh man, I haven't changed a lot. But then I was like, but that's actually a lot better. I had. They. Their suggestions were really good, so I think it's better. And I think having those deadlines was really helpful.

A (35:11)

Well, I guess they have enough fortitude to self publish. I just knew that if I didn't traditionally publish and if there wasn't a little fear, I was never gonna do it. Did you feel the same way?

B (35:25)

Yeah, well, especially to the, like the end, the last edits, because it's really easy. Like that first, first deadline, all you're like, okay, get the book done. And then there's all these other things that come to play. Okay, now I gotta do this. And then I gotta look at these visuals and, you know, it gets more complicated as you're like the different things, the little pieces of it. So, yeah, I 100% could not have. It would have fizzled. Even now I'm like, okay, I'm on the. I'm at the 5% left part. And I'm like, okay, this is the hardest part. Keep pushing, you know, because I'm like, I'm kind of bored of this. I'm ready to start a sub stack, you know, ready to move on to the next thing. Yeah, but. But I did. It did. It was super helpful in terms of. I mean, I already had a lot of the content, but I feel like I got it helped me to get more succinct. My the thing that is hardest for.

A (36:10)

Me is being succinct really helps hone your message.

B (36:13)

Right?

A (36:14)

Like where your sweet spot is what you're going to talk about. Because you're right, we're talking about everything because ADHD does kind of touch everything, so it makes sense. So what is a strategy in your book that sounded too simple to work but it turned out to be a game changer because those are usually the best ones.

B (36:38)

It all comes down to this. If anyone knows where I got this, please tell me because I wish I knew. I'm sure I got this one nugget from some thing I listened to, like limiting. It was probably Dr. Hallowell or Dr. Tamara Rosier or somebody. But delimit my taxing task. I calm taxing tasks but like the boring tasks, the six to seven taxing tests a day and I, I got that nugget like six to seven boring things I'm gonna limit. And then I really applied that to my life. And so here's how it works out. Three daily tasks, two weekly tasks, one monthly tasks. And then, but, but you start just with the daily tasks. So you kind of let yourself build. So you don't want to. Because I know people. What happens is you have all these things you wanna do. And the biggest tendencies with ADHD is you have to be self aware that like you're, it's never going to be humanly possible for you to do all the things you want to do right ever. And that's because you're amazing, creative, curious person. That's what makes you interesting. And that's. And so the way you get to accomplish more. Because that's why you, because if you keep feeling like you're trying to take action and all these things you still, you feel say stuck being. You feel like a failure because you're never making progress. So it's like how do we focus on making progress and is. And really it's letting the boring things be the boring things. So like these are six to seven boring things. Like I said before, we can do boring things, things that we don't want to do. Pair not novelty and stimulation and interesting things with them to make them more tolerable. But instead get really strategic on what your boring tasks are that matter the most to your life to make your life stressful. So we start less stressful. So we start with the days like the three basic daily tasks. Like these are the three things. If I do these three basic tasks, my days are going to run more smoothly and focus on getting good at those. And then you add in two weekly tasks that are like, okay, these two things. If I do these, this helps my family and my life move more smoothly. And then kind of one monthly tasks, so it helps you to like limit those things, all the things down. So you don't have this running to do list. Because if we have a blank sheet of paper, we're going to fill it with 1,000 things that aren't important. So do the work to decide pre decide what these things are and then give yourselves time to get good at those and let them be boring. Because what happens is why home management systems especially don't work is because if we're looking to them as our source of novelty, because we have this new system and it's the new shiny thing and it's so it's novel. So as long as it stays novel, we can do it. And then once it gets boring, we can't do it anymore. So instead let the boring things be boring and get your novelty and stimulation and things that are actually fun and interesting to you. So, so I kind of walk people through the this kind of series that, that's kind of like the core aspect of it. But you also, in order to do that well, to consistently get good at the six to seven boring tasks, you also have to be managing your adhd. And you also need to be making time for the things that are stimulating and interesting to you. And that is where a lot of the shame comes in for women. And I think there's different types of ADHD women, but a lot of the women that I work with, I identify kind of four kind of specific types of adhd. But a lot really struggle to make time for things that are simulating interesting because they think they should be able to just like plow through all these boring things. And also they get their list of all these things that need to get done, but they're not really interesting. It's the product, the procrastivity, which I'm sure you're familiar with that. Like we do all these things to feel productive, but they're not really the important things that help our life feel less stressful. So I kind of give you permission to not do those things like let leave the floorboards undone or whatever it is. These tasks that, that kind of derail us. But they aren't really essential to like life functioning. But then so it's kind of a kind of unweave it with time. Give yourself permission to like slowly get Better at it instead of trying to do it all at once, because that's never going to work.

A (40:59)

How do you set this up in terms of at the beginning of the month? Do you say, okay, this is my monthly task, these are my two weekly tasks and then this is the first week of my six to seven and then every week you add to that or do you literally map it all out at the beginning of the month so it's ongoing.

B (41:22)

So it's not something you're trying to map out all the time. It's the ongoing tasks. So I have. So we start literally that your daily three. Because, because part of this is I cover the perspective that we want to be managing our executive functioning capacity. So if we're expecting ourselves to start each day making decisions about what is a priority today we're burning our executive functioning. And the more kids that you have, the more big emotions you have. Like if you're getting to 4 o' clock and you have no emotional, you know, ability to regulate your emotions or regulate your kids emotions or, or figure out what's for dinner or get your kids to brush their teeth, it's like it's because you've used, you know, some people say spoons, like you used all of your mental load on all these decisions. So like I want you to be strategic and decide it, have it decided once. And one thing what we do do is like we do a quarterly, encourage you to do kind of like a quarterly update so that you can kind of tweak things. But, but so your daily three doesn't change from day to day because there's like the basic tasks, your weekly tasks, you have a list of 14 weekly.

A (42:29)

Tasks, your daily six to seven, they never change. They're always the same six to seven.

B (42:35)

So you have three daily, doesn't change. Then there's two weekly tasks. So you have 14 weekly tasks. So you're gonna, each day you're gonna do two of those. So that list, so you're gonna up, you're gonna create your list, you're not going to as I encourage people to at first just work down the list. So it's like if you miss a day, if you're gonna just do one, like focus on just working through your weekly tasks and then work through it again. So if you're doing one, that's fine. So you want to identify the 14 weekly tasks that are most essential to your family functioning, to your life functioning. So this is. So I think about it, I think about it really home and family. I don't feel like these six to seven, I'm not thinking about work.

A (43:20)

Give us an example of what the monthly might look like, the weekly might look like, and the daily might look like.

B (43:26)

I share like a lot of examples in the book because I want to give you examples, but I don't. I think, you know, autonomy is so important for ADHD brains. So I think it's really important that, that this is like led by you, by the desires that you have for your family in your life. So I'm not going to say the bathroom needs to get cleaned every week or. And so that process takes a little bit more introspection, but it's what makes it really stick because you get to decide what really matters and what's going to lower your stress. So my daily three and also every marriage is different. You might have a husband who does different, different tasks. You know, you might have kids who help more things and you might have more resources. So some people might have a full time cleaning lady or a cleaning lady come once a week or whatever. So you have to be realistic to what your resources are. And also when I say that six to seven tasks, tasks, I always caveat that with, you know, you might have less when you're moving or you're pregnant or you're going through a divorce or, you know, if like life is like you're six to seven, we want to work, we work up to that six to seven tasks, that capacity by taking care of ourselves, by getting good sleep, by getting good exercise. So in the book, I kind of of gently walk you to the six to seven tasks because I think if you start there and you're like, I'm gonna do the six or seven tasks and implement it right away. That and you're not doing the other things, that's it's gonna be hard. Okay, so by daily, three tasks are to clean the sink and wipe down the counters, which is also like unloading the dishwasher. So I kind of like do the dishes. So I might have a sink that's full of dishes. I'm going to unload the dishwasher, I'm going to load the dishwasher. I'm gonna get to an empty sink, I'm gonna wipe down the counter. Nurse. My expectation isn't that it stays like that all day long. My expectation is that I do that once a day. So if I do that one time a day, I'm going to avoid my kitchen becoming a disaster. Doesn't mean my kitchen stays perfect all the time. But it's like Having a very clear expectation for myself, because at first, for years, I felt like, oh, my kid has to be spotless all the time, and I can't do this. And that didn't work. But this is having very clear expectations for yourself. So for me, if I know. If I do that once a day, that really helps my anxiety level. Because if I. It's just. But it's not like it stays like that. And it doesn't matter what time of day. Sometimes you do it in the morning, if you do at night, whatever. So. And then that. I have a plan. So that's my one daily. 3. My second daily theory is pack lunches. It's basically think about all the meals. I have a plan for all the meals. So I'm usually doing it in the morning. We have breakfast. Either pack the lunches. What's. What am I gonna eat for lunch? What are we gonna eat for dinner? Do I have what I need for dinner?

A (46:06)

Do you do that every single day or do you plan that out? Food.

B (46:11)

So food. I have so monthly tasks. So I do. I kind of have a rotating meal. I have, like, I do monthly meal prep. And so I'm. So I have thought about. So that's one of my monthly tasks. So that's. When you think about your weekly tasks, your monthly tasks. You might be someone who wants to do weekly grocery shopping and to do weekly meal planning. That's too many weekly tasks for me. I want it to just be one monthly task. So that's where you think about it. So as you do these things, you might require some strategy, and it might require some figuring out how that's going to work for you, but clarifying your tasks and your expectations. So when I say I, like, have a plan for dinner, that usually looks like grabbing something out of the freezer or if we're gonna have tacos, I have taco meat in the freezer. So I'm pulling that out of the freezer, making sure it's defrosting. Okay. Do we still have tortillas? Do we still have sour cream? Okay, good. You know, so I'm. It's not 5pm And I'm, like, panicking, so just like keeping track of that. And then laundry. I do a load of laundry. I do not fold it. It's like, I just try to keep the laundry moving. So some days that means I'm washing towels. Some days I'm washing sheets. Sometimes I'm washing the clothes. But I just kind of keep the laundry process moving. If the laundry baskets are full, I Wash it. So I kind of. Those are, that's what I call my daily three.

A (47:33)

So yours are laundry, food and, and dishes. Yeah, making sure that the kitchen's cleaned.

B (47:40)

So I kind of do those, those things. And then so my weekly list, I can kind of do a rundown. It's 14 tasks. Light meal prep, whole house tidy, wash sheets, fold laundry, laundry away. So those are different tasks. Two different tasks. Wash towels, refill med boxes, money meeting with my husband, prep for the cleaner. We do have a weekly cleaner. I didn't for a long time. Water plants, order groceries, mom admin, which I can explain. Declutter something and deep clean something. So on Saturdays I just try to declutter one thing and deep clean one thing. And I don't stress about it. I explain both of those things in the book. But so those are like the tasks. If I can just stay on top of those tasks. Like our weeks run pretty smoothly and I break it up and so part of it's like knowing like I know I hate folding the laundry and I know I hate laundry away. So those are two different things I need to separate. I don't make myself do it at the same time. Like it's two different tasks. So you know, we needed our tasks to be specific. Need them to be small enough that they're not too overwhelming, but big enough that they feel rewarding. So figuring out those right size tasks and then my monthly tasks, I with the monthly tasks, I encourage you to have a list of 21 things that means at least one week of the month you're not going to be do, you're going to. Your energy is going to be low, our life's going to happen, you're going to have a sick kid, you're going to be sick, whatever. You're just going to be on your period and so having that. The other thing I was going to say about weekly tasks is expectation also that you also will have an off week. So I think about it like if I, you know, there's certain of these tasks that like I need to refill the med boxes. But like, like I, like I have these kind of assigned to specific day because it helps me to think through them. But I also just have a checklist. So I just kind of work through it and I give yourself grace. Like okay, ideally I'm gonna wash the for a long time. Like clean the bathroom was one like clean the bathroom was clean the bathroom and wash my towels for my Tuesday tasks. So like I'm gonna do those two things. So sometimes that meant, you know, having like 30 minutes and like doing a deep cleaning. And sometimes that was just like wipe the mirrors and you know, make sure like wipe down the toilets. And it was like a five minute ordeal. Cause that's what I could handle. And then some weeks I just don't do it. And it's like, okay, well I recognize that it's good enough for me if I've done it. If I've done it three out of four like that it's still. My house is still going to feel good enough for me. And it's not going to be perfect. But so giving yourself grace of like. Because there was a lot of things I think I used to think should be weekly tasks. And my expectation was like I should be able to do all these things weekly. But then when I started thinking strategically, I'm like, you know, like going through the car wash for example. Yes, it would be nice if I cleaned out my car once a week. But I don't have space right now to do that. I don't have capacity. So that's a monthly task. So on any given day, if you go in my car, it's not. Doesn't look great. But once a month I go to the car wash and I vacuum it out and I get all the junk. And it's never perfect. I don't ever do a perfectly detailed. That would be great if I got it detailed once a month. I don't do that. But it's like I know that standard is good enough for me. And so some people might be like obsessed with their car and like they need that wouldn't be enough for them, but it's enough for me. And I know cause I think part of it, what happens with, with moms with our ag brains is because we struggle with prioritization. It's executive functioning. So we, we, we feel like it should all. Everything feels urgent. So like it feels like we should be able to do everything. And so every Saturday we're like, okay, we are going to do a declutter project, we're going to do hospital, we're going to host a barbecue, we're gonna do the landscaping, we're gonna. And it's just too much. So it's like creating the right rhythm of like what is good enough for you.

A (51:48)

So I think I finally figured out what you're saying. The daily tasks are things that must be done every day. The weekly tasks are you just need to get through this thing one time during the week. And the monthly is you just need to do it One time for the month. And so this makes so much sense to me because what you're doing is you're creating a system and so you don't have to think about it. I think that's what's the hardest part for us, is all this stuff swirling in our brain versus if you've got this checklist and you're just going down, up. I did that for the week. I did that for the month. These are my dailies. You're just calming your nervous system down. Right. Because you know you're gonna get to it.

B (52:27)

Exactly, exactly. So that when you walk, because that's what happens is you're like, oh, I walk past. Oh, this. You know, I will go into. Wash my hands. And I'm like, oh, this bathroom looks. This isn't. Looks kind of yucky. But I'm like, oh, tomorrow's Tuesday. I'm gonna clean the bathroom tomorrow. It's fine. Fine. I don't need to worry about it right now. I don't. It doesn't need to derail me. Or I'm like, see things. You know, some things like, oh, that fancy to get clean. It's like you. You can trust that you have a plan for future you. Instead of feeling like, oh, I forgot about that. And there's also intentionally, like, you can be like, okay, you know, oh, that home project this room needs to get paid in. I'm like, well, I kind of do one home project a week and. Or a month. Like, that's. And I don't have capacity for this right now. So, like, this is a later project. So it kind of just helps you avoid taking on too much. I think the biggest thing that people have said is it has helped them finally rest. Because what happens is our brains are always like, all the things we need to do. Especially if you have combined or hyperactive type ADHD that, like, you see all the things you need to do. And it's really hard to, like, you know, get downtime. And especially if you have neurodivergent kids that need you to be regulated to. So, like, the giving you that permission, it's like, okay, I did my six to seven things now. I. I don't feel bad if I sit here and watch Gilmore Girls or if I read my fun book or I work on my creative project. So it's really simplifying and simplifying your life, making those strategic decisions that work best for you and for your family. Yeah.

A (53:53)

So you do all those things, and then all the rest of the time is family like, Literally doing stuff with family or doing your own thing.

B (54:03)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so part of it, when I say. And as I say six to seven, because that seven is kind of the extra. And that's hospitality, that's going to Costco, that's doctor's appointments, hair appointments, birthday parties. So that you're also kind of thinking strategically about that stuff, too, and kind of budgeting your time, budgeting your executive function, your capacity. Because a lot of the extras could easily get us overwhelmed, overstimulated, even if it's stuff we want to do. So, yes, you still do that stuff, but balance it out. Be strategic about it.

A (54:43)

So if an ADHD mom is listening today and she totally feels like she's failing, what is the first thing that you'd say to her or that you'd want her to hear?

B (54:56)

I would tell her that she's not alone. That feeling. Is it that just because she feels like she's failing, that doesn't mean she's a failure. It's. Your brain is. You know, you have this creative, curious brain that wants to do all the things, wants to be good at all these things, and your brain struggles to prioritize those things. So you're trying to do all these things. And. And you are not alone. You're not the only one wired like this. There's a lot of women that are wired like this. You in. It might not be the women that are around you on a daily basis, but you're not alone. And there's a huge community of us. And so figuring out how to live and to feel successful and to be proud of yourself, even when you have this brain that wants to do all the things at once takes time and it takes intentionality. But you can learn. You. You have to rewire and rethink and have different mindset shifts around your relationship with your brain and your relationship with this, these tendencies, but once you do, it's like your life, you can start to see, like, all the things you are doing and all the ways you are showing up. And so you can be a really, really great mom and have adhd, but it does take some intentionality to maybe figure out how it works.

A (56:16)

I think the best moms have ADHD because we have these brains of interest and we also have high empathy. And ultimately, is it really a priority? Is it the most important thing that everything is scheduled and organized and beautifully clean and all that? Or is it that you're sitting there with your child and you're available when they're struggling or when they're dysregulated. You know, I think that with our high empathy, we can be the best at really getting our kids to feel okay. And that's all they need, right, Is that one adult who gets them and sees their brilliance and is able to guide them to, you know, maybe, maybe they don't believe it in themselves yet, but we can hold that for them until all of a sudden they see it too. So.

B (57:11)

Absolutely. But. And I also think how we model to ourselves, how we're talking to ourselves, because we can be like, your ADHD brain is amazing and you're so great and you can do anything. But then if we're like, we suck or why can't we do this? Or this is so hard. Like you're. You're what you. How you talk to yourself is what you're modeling to them. That's what they're gonna really take away. And so learning to thrive with your own brain, learning to trick your own brain, learning to like, to acknowledge those voices, the. Whether it's the perfectionistic tendencies or the self doubt or the self criticism, like, learning to kind of re parent yourself is really, I think one of the best things that we can do for our kids because they're gonna watch how we talk to ourselves and how we do things. And I think once you start, this is really kind of one of my core beliefs in coaching moms with HD is like, because I think especially if you have kids that are struggling, you're like trying to troubleshoot how to help them. But once you kind of figure out how to troubleshoot your own brain, you have so much more resources to give them. And it's not like you're projecting it on them.

A (58:22)

You.

B (58:22)

You're able to be more of a partner in it and it feels more authentic. Because, like, I just think, you know, once I've found things that work for me, it's so easy to be like, oh, hey, did you try it this way or think about this way? Or do you need, you know, you have more tools. The more tools you have, the more tools you can share with them. Yeah.

A (58:38)

And it's the ripple effect. Right. You don't know who then they go share those tools with.

B (58:43)

Okay.

A (58:44)

Lightning round. Favorite ADHD hack.

B (58:47)

I'd say it's just like watching a show. Just like distraction, you know, I think it's my most go to. But I do love, Well, I would say focus music. That's probably my number one. I am a huge fan of focus music. Yes. Like, anytime I'm at the computer or doing anything. I am obsessed with focus music. I just listen to. It's on Apple Music. I just like search. It's called pure focus. I listen to that station to do everything.

A (59:10)

Okay, the last thing you lost, I.

B (59:13)

Lost one of my pair of readers. I have. These are my favorite readers and I have two pairs. I have no idea what happened to it. I had a second one in my purse, so I like, know where it was. I didn't have to think about it and I can't find it. I don't know where it is. I'm just really sad about it.

A (59:29)

Go buy a new pair and you'll find it. Right then.

B (59:31)

I did. Yep.

A (59:32)

Yeah, happens every time. One system that you'll never give up. And I kind of have a sense what you're gonna say.

B (59:38)

Yes. The six. The six to seven things. The master of the money. It's just really, really worked for my brain.

A (59:43)

Love it. So, Amy, where can people order your book?

B (59:49)

Yes. Okay. Well, depending on when this comes out, it's probably just ordered everywhere right now. We're currently in pre order until September 10th, but it's available Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and anywhere books are sold. If you it's not yet on Audible or the audiobook is not yet available. Hopefully you'll get that contract soon. It's not yet there, but I have on my website. I'll make sure you have that link.

A (60:12)

Well, tell us what it is.

B (60:14)

It's www.amymarie/mtmbook launch. So if you go there, there's a bunch of goodies if you pre order. So depending on when this hits, you can pre order there.

A (60:24)

Amy, thank you so much for spending time with us here today. It was so lovely to get to know you.

B (60:31)

Oh, it was such a treat. Tracy, thank you for all that you do and for all the nuggets that you shared and for how you continue to shine your light onto the good things that are happening in all the world of ADHD women.

A (60:43)

Thank you, Amy, so much. So that's what I have for you for this week. If you like this episode with Amy, please let us know by leaving a review. Our goal is to change the conversation around adhd, helping as many women as we possibly can learn how their ADHD brains work so that they too may discover their amazing strengths. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you here next week.

B (61:15)

You.

A (61:15)

You've been listening to the ADHD for Smartass Women podcast. I'm your host, Tracy Otsuka. Join us at adhd for smartwomen.com where you can find more information on my new book, ADHD for Smartass Women and my patented your ADHD Brain is a okay system to help you get unstuck and fall in love with your brilliant brain. Your ADHD brain is not broken, you just don't have the right tools. If you are sick of feeling behind, overwhelmed or like you're always playing catch up, my patented program, your ADHD Brain is a okay academy will give you the system that you need to finally take control and move forward. It's designed specifically for how our ADHD brains actually work. No forcing, no shame, just a real blueprint that shows you exactly who you are, what truly matters to you, and what you should do next with your life. For more information, find the link in the first line of this episode's description. Look, you already have everything you need. Let me show you how to use it.